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(NPR)   The State of California just extended the world's largest middle finger toward Trump and Sessions   ( npr.org) divider line
    More: Spiffy, United States, law enforcement, Police, local law enforcement, California, Immigration to the United States, federal immigration authorities, President of the United States  
•       •       •

13532 clicks; posted to Main » on 16 Sep 2017 at 7:02 PM (12 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2017-09-16 03:39:48 PM  
I'll just leave this here.
 
2017-09-16 04:10:41 PM  
Okay can somebody explain to me why it is okay to shelter illegal immigrants? I'm liberal lefty guy but I still can't get behind this stuff there are people waiting years to immigrate legally meanwhile you have people jumping the border and the government shielding them.
 
2017-09-16 04:25:44 PM  

RTOGUY: Okay can somebody explain to me why it is okay to shelter illegal immigrants? I'm liberal lefty guy but I still can't get behind this stuff there are people waiting years to immigrate legally meanwhile you have people jumping the border and the government shielding them.


Because undocumented immigrants make up a significant portion of the country's labor force, doing jobs that almost all Americans would not do (as evidenced by the lack of people choosing fruit picking or meat packing over being on unemployment during the recession). Because they pay taxes and participate in society like you do, except without benefit of the redress of law when something happens to them. Because entire industries which rely on their labor have lobbied for decades to keep the current system which ensures that its next to impossible to legally immigrate, therefore keeping a population of workers in-house that can't complain about shiatty working conditions and exploitation.

You rely on undocumented immigrants whether you hate them or not, and it's not okay to terrorize them so that you can whip up racists for votes.
 
2017-09-16 04:27:27 PM  

RTOGUY: Okay can somebody explain to me why it is okay to shelter illegal immigrants? I'm liberal lefty guy but I still can't get behind this stuff there are people waiting years to immigrate legally meanwhile you have people jumping the border and the government shielding them.


If the police are checking the immigration status of every hispanic person they have contact with, policing hispanic neighborhoods becomes virtually impossible because nobody will talk to the police.  By having sanctuary policies that formally prevent police contact from turning into an immigration status check community relations are improved, the police can be more effective and everyone is safer and happier.
 
2017-09-16 04:34:27 PM  

RTOGUY: Okay can somebody explain to me why it is okay to shelter illegal immigrants? I'm liberal lefty guy but I still can't get behind this stuff there are people waiting years to immigrate legally meanwhile you have people jumping the border and the government shielding them.


Well, first you should learn what a sanctuary city means. I suggest you look it up.
 
2017-09-16 04:43:28 PM  

Scorpitron is reduced to a thin red paste: RTOGUY: Okay can somebody explain to me why it is okay to shelter illegal immigrants? I'm liberal lefty guy but I still can't get behind this stuff there are people waiting years to immigrate legally meanwhile you have people jumping the border and the government shielding them.

Well, first you should learn what a sanctuary city means. I suggest you look it up.


I know what they are I just don't agree with the concept.
 
2017-09-16 04:49:37 PM  
One small, but important and necessary step towards secession
Let's see who else steps up and starts telling the Federal Gov't to shove it
 
2017-09-16 04:59:06 PM  

Iamos: I'll just leave this here.


Calexit is not a thing.  Stop trying to make Calexit a thing.
 
2017-09-16 05:05:41 PM  

RTOGUY: I know what they are I just don't agree with the concept.


Even now that you've been given numerous very good reasons? If so, do you not agree with the reasoning or do you not understand it?
 
2017-09-16 05:12:00 PM  
Because the feds can use their own dollars if they've got a hard on for deporting people.

And also, these are actually people. People that might actually be a general benefit to society.
 
2017-09-16 05:12:02 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: Iamos: I'll just leave this here.

Calexit is not a thing.  Stop trying to make Calexit a thing.


Calexit as a political movement is stupid. Calexit the graphic novel series has been prescient and a very interesting read.
 
2017-09-16 05:43:37 PM  

RTOGUY: Scorpitron is reduced to a thin red paste: RTOGUY: Okay can somebody explain to me why it is okay to shelter illegal immigrants? I'm liberal lefty guy but I still can't get behind this stuff there are people waiting years to immigrate legally meanwhile you have people jumping the border and the government shielding them.

Well, first you should learn what a sanctuary city means. I suggest you look it up.

I know what they are I just don't agree with the concept.


You mean the concept that states aren't required to enforce immigration laws?
 
2017-09-16 06:33:09 PM  

Barfmaker: RTOGUY: I know what they are I just don't agree with the concept.

Even now that you've been given numerous very good reasons? If so, do you not agree with the reasoning or do you not understand it?


Look so far the reasons given are that people are needed to do hard word for cheap and that people should be able to come forward for help without getting deported. It seems to me that one could argue that sanctuary cities only serve to preserve a sort of slavery or underclass. Even if you let them send their kids to school or get legal help they still don't have a status and just like classical slaves are not full citizens. All you are doing is letting them exist in a kind of limbo where their status really just depends on the whims of the various administrations.
 
2017-09-16 06:37:35 PM  

RTOGUY: Okay can somebody explain to me why it is okay to shelter illegal immigrants? I'm liberal lefty guy but I still can't get behind this stuff there are people waiting years to immigrate legally meanwhile you have people jumping the border and the government shielding them.


Well there's DACA kids who have been here legally under that program and are in line to be deported since Trump is arbitrarily changing the rules. Some people have a problem with casting people into countries they can't even remember let alone speak the language. As you know from Fark so far, this has included under age students, college studnets, military people, parmedics, and so forth.

Trump made a point of saying Mexico "wasn't sending their best." The facts say this is debatable.

But to answer your question, it's probably not okay. But this administration has abandoned due process sparking much of the resistance. Surely you have read of American citizens being deported or not being allowed back into their own country? That is delorable.
 
2017-09-16 06:38:07 PM  
img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2017-09-16 06:48:19 PM  

RTOGUY: Barfmaker: RTOGUY: I know what they are I just don't agree with the concept.

Even now that you've been given numerous very good reasons? If so, do you not agree with the reasoning or do you not understand it?

Look so far the reasons given are that people are needed to do hard word for cheap and that people should be able to come forward for help without getting deported. It seems to me that one could argue that sanctuary cities only serve to preserve a sort of slavery or underclass. Even if you let them send their kids to school or get legal help they still don't have a status and just like classical slaves are not full citizens. All you are doing is letting them exist in a kind of limbo where their status really just depends on the whims of the various administrations.


I thought the whole point was that "Sanctuary" status is designed to protect these people, who are being used as nothing more than a convenient political scapegoat used to chum up xenophobia, from those very whims.

It should not be an issue at all. Immigration is used constantly as a fearmongering tactic to gain votes. It is effective too. Spineless politicians have been ducking the issue since Reagan's amnesty.
 
2017-09-16 07:06:52 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: Iamos: I'll just leave this here.

Calexit is not a thing.  Stop trying to make Calexit a thing.


It's the stupid mirror image of the stupid Texas secession "movement."
 
2017-09-16 07:07:55 PM  

Cagey B: Because undocumented immigrants make up a significant portion of the country's labor force, doing jobs that almost all Americans would not do (as evidenced by the lack of people choosing fruit picking or meat packing over being on unemployment during the recession). Because they pay taxes and participate in society like you do, except without benefit of the redress of law when something happens to them. Because entire industries which rely on their labor have lobbied for decades to keep the current system which ensures that its next to impossible to legally immigrate, therefore keeping a population of workers in-house that can't complain about shiatty working conditions and exploitation.


So basically the left wants to keep a supply of cheap labour which has limited recourse to the law?
 
2017-09-16 07:08:51 PM  
A big middle finger to the rule of law, you mean
 
2017-09-16 07:09:08 PM  
keep undermining your workers ability to bargain California.  Very progressive.
/sarcasm btw
 
2017-09-16 07:09:17 PM  

Cagey B: RTOGUY: Okay can somebody explain to me why it is okay to shelter illegal immigrants? I'm liberal lefty guy but I still can't get behind this stuff there are people waiting years to immigrate legally meanwhile you have people jumping the border and the government shielding them.

Because undocumented immigrants make up a significant portion of the country's labor force, doing jobs that almost all Americans would not do (as evidenced by the lack of people choosing fruit picking or meat packing over being on unemployment during the recession). Because they pay taxes and participate in society like you do, except without benefit of the redress of law when something happens to them. Because entire industries which rely on their labor have lobbied for decades to keep the current system which ensures that its next to impossible to legally immigrate, therefore keeping a population of workers in-house that can't complain about shiatty working conditions and exploitation.

You rely on undocumented immigrants whether you hate them or not, and it's not okay to terrorize them so that you can whip up racists for votes.


How does someone working illegally pay taxes? Do they cut a check to the IRS with a "thanks fam" note?
 
2017-09-16 07:10:48 PM  
California remembers life before the USA.
The West Remembers.
Yearlong Summer is Coming.
 
2017-09-16 07:11:10 PM  

RTOGUY: Okay can somebody explain to me why it is okay to shelter illegal immigrants? I'm liberal lefty guy but I still can't get behind this stuff there are people waiting years to immigrate legally meanwhile you have people jumping the border and the government shielding them.


Illegal immigrants don't have legal protections like citzens.

Sanctuary cities tells law enforcement to treat everyone equally under the law and prohibits sharing of immigration status. That way, a latino woman doesn't have to decide whether coming forward about being raped is worth the effort and hassle.
 
2017-09-16 07:11:51 PM  
 
2017-09-16 07:12:45 PM  
i1.kym-cdn.comView Full Size
 
2017-09-16 07:12:52 PM  

RTOGUY: Okay can somebody explain to me why it is okay to shelter illegal immigrants? I'm liberal lefty guy but I still can't get behind this stuff there are people waiting years to immigrate legally meanwhile you have people jumping the border and the government shielding them.


Then you're not really a lefty liberal guy.
 
2017-09-16 07:13:22 PM  

jayphat: Cagey B: RTOGUY: Okay can somebody explain to me why it is okay to shelter illegal immigrants? I'm liberal lefty guy but I still can't get behind this stuff there are people waiting years to immigrate legally meanwhile you have people jumping the border and the government shielding them.

Because undocumented immigrants make up a significant portion of the country's labor force, doing jobs that almost all Americans would not do (as evidenced by the lack of people choosing fruit picking or meat packing over being on unemployment during the recession). Because they pay taxes and participate in society like you do, except without benefit of the redress of law when something happens to them. Because entire industries which rely on their labor have lobbied for decades to keep the current system which ensures that its next to impossible to legally immigrate, therefore keeping a population of workers in-house that can't complain about shiatty working conditions and exploitation.

You rely on undocumented immigrants whether you hate them or not, and it's not okay to terrorize them so that you can whip up racists for votes.

How does someone working illegally pay taxes? Do they cut a check to the IRS with a "thanks fam" note?


Seriously? Haha, youre way out of tournament depth in this discussion.
 
2017-09-16 07:13:32 PM  

edmo: Well there's DACA kids who have been here legally under that program and are in line to be deported since Trump is arbitrarily changing the rules.


You mean the rules that Obama arbitrarily created?   Trump's stance is DACA was not legally created and gave Congress six months to make it legal.  He could have halted the program immediately, but he didn't.   The executive office does not have the power to create laws.  Its power is enforcement of existing laws.
 
2017-09-16 07:14:20 PM  
Hey, just working toward smaller government.
 
2017-09-16 07:14:43 PM  

you are a puppet: jayphat: Cagey B: RTOGUY: Okay can somebody explain to me why it is okay to shelter illegal immigrants? I'm liberal lefty guy but I still can't get behind this stuff there are people waiting years to immigrate legally meanwhile you have people jumping the border and the government shielding them.

Because undocumented immigrants make up a significant portion of the country's labor force, doing jobs that almost all Americans would not do (as evidenced by the lack of people choosing fruit picking or meat packing over being on unemployment during the recession). Because they pay taxes and participate in society like you do, except without benefit of the redress of law when something happens to them. Because entire industries which rely on their labor have lobbied for decades to keep the current system which ensures that its next to impossible to legally immigrate, therefore keeping a population of workers in-house that can't complain about shiatty working conditions and exploitation.

You rely on undocumented immigrants whether you hate them or not, and it's not okay to terrorize them so that you can whip up racists for votes.

How does someone working illegally pay taxes? Do they cut a check to the IRS with a "thanks fam" note?

Seriously? Haha, youre way out of tournament depth in this discussion.


I'm not being provocative here. I'm seriously asking, how is someone here illegally working illegally paying taxes? And I'm not talking about sales taxes.
 
2017-09-16 07:15:03 PM  

Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: Illegal immigrants don't have legal protections like citzens.


The State of California allocated $31 million for legal protection of illegals.
 
2017-09-16 07:17:22 PM  

jayphat: you are a puppet: jayphat: Cagey B: RTOGUY: Okay can somebody explain to me why it is okay to shelter illegal immigrants? I'm liberal lefty guy but I still can't get behind this stuff there are people waiting years to immigrate legally meanwhile you have people jumping the border and the government shielding them.

Because undocumented immigrants make up a significant portion of the country's labor force, doing jobs that almost all Americans would not do (as evidenced by the lack of people choosing fruit picking or meat packing over being on unemployment during the recession). Because they pay taxes and participate in society like you do, except without benefit of the redress of law when something happens to them. Because entire industries which rely on their labor have lobbied for decades to keep the current system which ensures that its next to impossible to legally immigrate, therefore keeping a population of workers in-house that can't complain about shiatty working conditions and exploitation.

You rely on undocumented immigrants whether you hate them or not, and it's not okay to terrorize them so that you can whip up racists for votes.

How does someone working illegally pay taxes? Do they cut a check to the IRS with a "thanks fam" note?

Seriously? Haha, youre way out of tournament depth in this discussion.

I'm not being provocative here. I'm seriously asking, how is someone here illegally working illegally paying taxes? And I'm not talking about sales taxes.


Same way you pay taxes.  It's taken out of their pay checks.  Most illegals have false documents, file a W4, and get a pay check like everyone else, though I'm sure there is a portion that works under the table.
 
2017-09-16 07:17:56 PM  

jayphat: Cagey B: RTOGUY: Okay can somebody explain to me why it is okay to shelter illegal immigrants? I'm liberal lefty guy but I still can't get behind this stuff there are people waiting years to immigrate legally meanwhile you have people jumping the border and the government shielding them.

Because undocumented immigrants make up a significant portion of the country's labor force, doing jobs that almost all Americans would not do (as evidenced by the lack of people choosing fruit picking or meat packing over being on unemployment during the recession). Because they pay taxes and participate in society like you do, except without benefit of the redress of law when something happens to them. Because entire industries which rely on their labor have lobbied for decades to keep the current system which ensures that its next to impossible to legally immigrate, therefore keeping a population of workers in-house that can't complain about shiatty working conditions and exploitation.

You rely on undocumented immigrants whether you hate them or not, and it's not okay to terrorize them so that you can whip up racists for votes.

How does someone working illegally pay taxes? Do they cut a check to the IRS with a "thanks fam" note?


They use a "stolen" SSN number to appear to be legal, and their em
 
2017-09-16 07:19:25 PM  
Comparing Canada and the US immigration policies

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-immigration-deportation-exclusi​v​e/exclusive-u-s-plans-new-wave-of-immigrant-deportation-raids-idUSKCN0​Y32J1

Shiat has needed to be fixed for a while, blaming Trump only hardens the hearing of the RWNJ's.  Christ, Bush even tried to fix it but was blocked by his own party's congressmen
 
2017-09-16 07:19:39 PM  

OgreMagi: jayphat: you are a puppet: jayphat: Cagey B: RTOGUY: Okay can somebody explain to me why it is okay to shelter illegal immigrants? I'm liberal lefty guy but I still can't get behind this stuff there are people waiting years to immigrate legally meanwhile you have people jumping the border and the government shielding them.

Because undocumented immigrants make up a significant portion of the country's labor force, doing jobs that almost all Americans would not do (as evidenced by the lack of people choosing fruit picking or meat packing over being on unemployment during the recession). Because they pay taxes and participate in society like you do, except without benefit of the redress of law when something happens to them. Because entire industries which rely on their labor have lobbied for decades to keep the current system which ensures that its next to impossible to legally immigrate, therefore keeping a population of workers in-house that can't complain about shiatty working conditions and exploitation.

You rely on undocumented immigrants whether you hate them or not, and it's not okay to terrorize them so that you can whip up racists for votes.

How does someone working illegally pay taxes? Do they cut a check to the IRS with a "thanks fam" note?

Seriously? Haha, youre way out of tournament depth in this discussion.

I'm not being provocative here. I'm seriously asking, how is someone here illegally working illegally paying taxes? And I'm not talking about sales taxes.

Same way you pay taxes.  It's taken out of their pay checks.  Most illegals have false documents, file a W4, and get a pay check like everyone else, though I'm sure there is a portion that works under the table.


What a shiatty government agency we have if you can't catch that. How hard is that?
 
2017-09-16 07:19:40 PM  

noitsnot: jayphat: Cagey B: RTOGUY: Okay can somebody explain to me why it is okay to shelter illegal immigrants? I'm liberal lefty guy but I still can't get behind this stuff there are people waiting years to immigrate legally meanwhile you have people jumping the border and the government shielding them.

Because undocumented immigrants make up a significant portion of the country's labor force, doing jobs that almost all Americans would not do (as evidenced by the lack of people choosing fruit picking or meat packing over being on unemployment during the recession). Because they pay taxes and participate in society like you do, except without benefit of the redress of law when something happens to them. Because entire industries which rely on their labor have lobbied for decades to keep the current system which ensures that its next to impossible to legally immigrate, therefore keeping a population of workers in-house that can't complain about shiatty working conditions and exploitation.

You rely on undocumented immigrants whether you hate them or not, and it's not okay to terrorize them so that you can whip up racists for votes.

How does someone working illegally pay taxes? Do they cut a check to the IRS with a "thanks fam" note?

They use a "stolen" SSN number to appear to be legal, and their em


Dammit - their employers look the other way because nobody else is applying to work at Burger King.  So you may possibly be getting SSN credit from somebody else's work.  Say thank you.
 
2017-09-16 07:19:42 PM  

jayphat: you are a puppet: jayphat: Cagey B: RTOGUY: Okay can somebody explain to me why it is okay to shelter illegal immigrants? I'm liberal lefty guy but I still can't get behind this stuff there are people waiting years to immigrate legally meanwhile you have people jumping the border and the government shielding them.

Because undocumented immigrants make up a significant portion of the country's labor force, doing jobs that almost all Americans would not do (as evidenced by the lack of people choosing fruit picking or meat packing over being on unemployment during the recession). Because they pay taxes and participate in society like you do, except without benefit of the redress of law when something happens to them. Because entire industries which rely on their labor have lobbied for decades to keep the current system which ensures that its next to impossible to legally immigrate, therefore keeping a population of workers in-house that can't complain about shiatty working conditions and exploitation.

You rely on undocumented immigrants whether you hate them or not, and it's not okay to terrorize them so that you can whip up racists for votes.

How does someone working illegally pay taxes? Do they cut a check to the IRS with a "thanks fam" note?

Seriously? Haha, youre way out of tournament depth in this discussion.

I'm not being provocative here. I'm seriously asking, how is someone here illegally working illegally paying taxes? And I'm not talking about sales taxes.


Same as everyone else just with a made up social.
 
2017-09-16 07:20:27 PM  
Countries have a right to restrict who comes into and is allowed to stay in their country.
 
2017-09-16 07:21:53 PM  

OgreMagi: Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: Illegal immigrants don't have legal protections like citzens.

The State of California allocated $31 million for legal protection of illegals.


Money which had to specifically allocated for that goal because that state thought the feds were screwing up.

Joe Arpio's "no harm, no foul" policy in Arizona is what happens when the states go the other direction
 
2017-09-16 07:21:57 PM  
HAAAAAHAHAhahahaha! XD

I love my state.
 
2017-09-16 07:24:47 PM  

RTOGUY: Okay can somebody explain to me why it is okay to shelter illegal immigrants?


They aren't.  They're saying that the Federal government should have to enforce Federal laws.
We aren't gonna help them.


Army dude: Countries have a right to restrict who comes into and is allowed to stay in their country.


Sure.
And the country -- which is to say, the Federal government -- can send do it their damn selves.
 
2017-09-16 07:24:51 PM  

Raoul Eaton: Marcus Aurelius: Iamos: I'll just leave this here.

Calexit is not a thing.  Stop trying to make Calexit a thing.

It's the stupid mirror image of the stupid Texas secession "movement."


that and it is Russian backed
 
2017-09-16 07:25:55 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: Iamos: I'll just leave this here.

Calexit is not a thing.  Stop trying to make Calexit a thing.


Maybe it would like to be a Canadian province?
 
2017-09-16 07:29:56 PM  
preventing the local police from communicating with the federal government when an individual is arrested is a terrible policy choice.
 
2017-09-16 07:30:08 PM  
Ha, my step creature is going to flip her lid. She's forever banging on about the State of Jefferson (Northern California, the non-existant 51st state), and her absolute hatred of all things sanctuary state.

Well now, put this in your pipe and smoke it, step creature.
 
2017-09-16 07:31:32 PM  

RTOGUY: Scorpitron is reduced to a thin red paste: RTOGUY: Okay can somebody explain to me why it is okay to shelter illegal immigrants? I'm liberal lefty guy but I still can't get behind this stuff there are people waiting years to immigrate legally meanwhile you have people jumping the border and the government shielding them.

Well, first you should learn what a sanctuary city means. I suggest you look it up.

I know what they are I just don't agree with the concept.


Then why would you open the thread with a false premise?
 
2017-09-16 07:31:36 PM  

noitsnot: RTOGUY: Okay can somebody explain to me why it is okay to shelter illegal immigrants? I'm liberal lefty guy but I still can't get behind this stuff there are people waiting years to immigrate legally meanwhile you have people jumping the border and the government shielding them.

Then you're not really a lefty liberal guy.


You can be an economic progressive who believes legal Americans should come first. And ignoring laws you don't like isn't an acceptable counter-argument because we should change the laws.

*Dreamers are innocent and brought here by their parents and deserve at least a green card and at most citizenship without chain capability
 
2017-09-16 07:31:57 PM  

OgreMagi: edmo: Well there's DACA kids who have been here legally under that program and are in line to be deported since Trump is arbitrarily changing the rules.

You mean the rules that Obama arbitrarily created?   Trump's stance is DACA was not legally created and gave Congress six months to make it legal.  He could have halted the program immediately, but he didn't.   The executive office does not have the power to create laws.  Its power is enforcement of existing laws.


And yet the Trumpers defend the travel ban by saying that the president has broad authority to manage immigration.
 
2017-09-16 07:32:35 PM  

RTOGUY: Okay can somebody explain to me why it is okay to shelter illegal immigrants? I'm liberal lefty guy but I still can't get behind this stuff there are people waiting years to immigrate legally meanwhile you have people jumping the border and the government shielding them.


It's because illegals count in the Electoral College.
 
2017-09-16 07:32:55 PM  

OgreMagi: Its power is enforcement of existing laws.


And part of that is determining policies around enforcement of those laws.
 
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