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(IndyStar)   Could President Trump's removal come down to two Hoosiers? Yes, if the 25th Amendment is invoked to judge the president's stability   ( indystar.com) divider line
    More: Interesting, vice president, President of the United States, Vice President of the United States, Bayh, amendment, 25th Amendment, Gerald Ford, President pro tempore of the United States Senate  
•       •       •

2113 clicks; posted to Politics » on 14 Sep 2017 at 12:20 PM (12 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2017-09-14 08:28:41 AM  
Oh, please. Reagan was shiatting himself and we did nothing.
 
2017-09-14 08:59:12 AM  
Here are two Hoosiers
thestar.comView Full Size

But, you spelled it wrong...
 
2017-09-14 09:24:24 AM  
I'm sorry, but did everyone forget about the Cabinet meeting where almost the entire Cabinet praised the president as bigger than Jesus and the Beatles combined? And those are the people who we're counting on to invoke the instability clause of the 25th Amendment? You'll have better luck sucking a golf ball through a hose.
 
2017-09-14 09:32:18 AM  

Serious Black: I'm sorry, but did everyone forget about the Cabinet meeting where almost the entire Cabinet praised the president as bigger than Jesus and the Beatles combined? And those are the people who we're counting on to invoke the instability clause of the 25th Amendment? You'll have better luck sucking a golf ball through a hose.


you realize they would never speak I'll of their boss in front of their boss, right?

but I agree, I think only Tillerson and Mattis would go against Trump in this scenario.
 
2017-09-14 10:04:02 AM  
I wouldn't hang my hopes on the 25th Amendment if I were you.  It's generally conceded to be for situations like when Woodrow Wilson had a stroke, not because you really, really don't like the person who got elected.
 
2017-09-14 10:14:30 AM  
No. Kill that pipe dream. It's not gonna happen.

And even if it did, this nation would tear itself apart. You think he'd go quietly? You think he'd stay quiet? Forget it. Start thinking "this shiat is long term". If he's booted out- great. If not, we have a lot of protesting and the like ahead for us.
 
2017-09-14 11:02:58 AM  
"Could"? Yeah, I'll get right on fitting my butt for flying monkeys.
 
2017-09-14 11:07:01 AM  

dittybopper: I wouldn't hang my hopes on the 25th Amendment if I were you.  It's generally conceded to be for situations like when Woodrow Wilson had a stroke, not because you really, really don't like the person who got elected.


It's no surprise I don't like George W. Bush's presidency or that I didn't really care for it at the time. In hindsight, he had his faculties together. He could plan, reason, and remember. He knew well enough to use the amendment to temporarily give Dick Cheney the presidency when he was undergoing medical procedures. Using the instability clause of the 25th Amendment to try and remove Bush would have been a terrible idea.

The current president is entirely different. IMO, he shows signs of progressive dementia. Compare how he spoke decades ago to how he speaks today. Hell, compare how he spoke at the beginning of the campaign to how he speaks today. He was an asshole and self-absorbed decades ago, but he could put complex thoughts together. He could stay on subject for more than a minute at a time. Now he needs all his memos to be less than one page and can't be troubled with more than one potential course of action. Now he flits between topics and positions on topics so fast I have a permanent case of whiplash.

Looking through history, there are only three people I'm confident should have been pulled from the presidency for reasons of being unable to discharge the duties of the office: Woodrow Wilson after his stroke, Ronald Reagan during his second term after the Alzheimer's was starting to chew into his mental faculties, and Donald Trump today with his degenerating mental faculties.
 
2017-09-14 11:31:15 AM  

dittybopper: I wouldn't hang my hopes on the 25th Amendment if I were you.  It's generally conceded to be for situations like when Woodrow Wilson had a stroke, not because you really, really don't like the person who got elected.


The onset of dementia looks an awful lot like a series of mini strokes? Either one should invoke the 25th.
 
2017-09-14 12:23:30 PM  

vudukungfu: Oh, please. Reagan was shiatting himself and we did nothing.


At least he hired some capable people.
 
2017-09-14 12:23:49 PM  

Serious Black: dittybopper: I wouldn't hang my hopes on the 25th Amendment if I were you.  It's generally conceded to be for situations like when Woodrow Wilson had a stroke, not because you really, really don't like the person who got elected.

It's no surprise I don't like George W. Bush's presidency or that I didn't really care for it at the time. In hindsight, he had his faculties together. He could plan, reason, and remember. He knew well enough to use the amendment to temporarily give Dick Cheney the presidency when he was undergoing medical procedures. Using the instability clause of the 25th Amendment to try and remove Bush would have been a terrible idea.

The current president is entirely different. IMO, he shows signs of progressive dementia. Compare how he spoke decades ago to how he speaks today. Hell, compare how he spoke at the beginning of the campaign to how he speaks today. He was an asshole and self-absorbed decades ago, but he could put complex thoughts together. He could stay on subject for more than a minute at a time. Now he needs all his memos to be less than one page and can't be troubled with more than one potential course of action. Now he flits between topics and positions on topics so fast I have a permanent case of whiplash.

Looking through history, there are only three people I'm confident should have been pulled from the presidency for reasons of being unable to discharge the duties of the office: Woodrow Wilson after his stroke, Ronald Reagan during his second term after the Alzheimer's was starting to chew into his mental faculties, and Donald Trump today with his degenerating mental faculties.


The 25th wasn't ratified until 1967, so it would have been extremely difficult to remove Wilson using that process.
 
2017-09-14 12:23:53 PM  

Serious Black: I'm sorry, but did everyone forget about the Cabinet meeting where almost the entire Cabinet praised the president as bigger than Jesus and the Beatles combined? And those are the people who we're counting on to invoke the instability clause of the 25th Amendment? You'll have better luck sucking a golf ball through a hose.


BULLshiat! Are you a peter puffer?
 
2017-09-14 12:26:40 PM  
I'm no fan of the dude but y'all are mistaking an utter lack of tact, forethought, intellectual curiosity and moral fiber for signs of dementia. The guy's not ill, he's just an asshole that couldn't give a fark
 
2017-09-14 12:29:15 PM  
I hope if this does happen and if Pence votes against him, Trump exclaims "Et Tu Pence?"
 
2017-09-14 12:31:22 PM  
I can't take any new seriously from a website that has THIS as a breaking news alert.

img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2017-09-14 12:33:24 PM  
I don't want him 25th'd. I want him frog-marched out the front door, down a path lined with reporters, photographers and videographers and guided gently into an FBI vehicle. Hopefully at the head of a column including his family and many other Republicans.
 
2017-09-14 12:33:40 PM  

zappadog: I can't take any new seriously from a website that has THIS as a breaking news alert.

[img.fark.net image 850x431]


I LOVE tater tots!!!!
 
2017-09-14 12:33:41 PM  

Serious Black: I'm sorry, but did everyone forget about the Cabinet meeting where almost the entire Cabinet praised the president as bigger than Jesus and the Beatles combined? And those are the people who we're counting on to invoke the instability clause of the 25th Amendment? You'll have better luck sucking a golf ball through a hose.


I'm an engineer. I can figure out a way to get that ball through the hose.

"With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine."
 
2017-09-14 12:34:59 PM  

mcreadyblue: zappadog: I can't take any new seriously from a website that has THIS as a breaking news alert.

[img.fark.net image 850x431]

I LOVE tater tots!!!!


It's not breaking news if we all know this already.
 
2017-09-14 12:36:02 PM  
Pray for peace, but prepare for War.

That is the mantra of these weird times.
 
2017-09-14 12:36:23 PM  

zappadog: I can't take any new seriously from a website that has THIS as a breaking news alert.

[img.fark.net image 850x431]


You have something against Tater Tots?  If you are a Hoosier, you love your Tater Tots with fried baloney, Birch Bayh and think the Indianapolis Star is a major newspaper.  If like myself, you have moved away from Indiana, you think Indianapolis is a cornfield with lights.
 
2017-09-14 12:37:25 PM  
Yeah, that isn't going to happen.
 
2017-09-14 12:38:07 PM  
Time for HR 1987
 
2017-09-14 12:39:08 PM  
wtf is a hoosier
 
2017-09-14 12:40:44 PM  

vudukungfu: Oh, please. Reagan was shiatting himself and we did nothing.


True, but Trump is shiatting all of us. That is worse.
 
2017-09-14 12:42:05 PM  
Scarlett Johansson is more likely to come to my house and abuse me as her sex slave than the 25th ammendment is to ever be used
 
Ant
2017-09-14 12:43:10 PM  

dittybopper: I wouldn't hang my hopes on the 25th Amendment if I were you.  It's generally conceded to be for situations like when Woodrow Wilson had a stroke, not because you really, really don't like the person who got elected.


This is more than mere dislike. This guy is the #1 danger to this country, and maybe even the world.

That said, nothing will come of this. Trump was right when he said he could shoot someone on 5th avenue without losing a vote.
 
2017-09-14 12:44:08 PM  
They're going to run the picket fence, but they can't get caught watching the paint dry.
 
2017-09-14 12:47:29 PM  

dittybopper: I wouldn't hang my hopes on the 25th Amendment if I were you.  It's generally conceded to be for situations like when Woodrow Wilson had a stroke, not because you really, really don't like the person who got elected.


I don't think Mitch McConnell cares much about precedent. See: Merrick Garland.
 
2017-09-14 12:49:00 PM  

Nadie_AZ: No. Kill that pipe dream. It's not gonna happen.


And the chucklefarks STILL don't get that establishing that mechanism is a grave threat to democracy. They lack the foresight to see it turned against their interests.
Soft coups: number one when you're just too disconnected, dimwitted and lazy to win elections on merit.
 
2017-09-14 12:50:09 PM  
If this thing that is not going to happen happens, then this will be super important.
 
2017-09-14 12:50:18 PM  

neenerist: Nadie_AZ: No. Kill that pipe dream. It's not gonna happen.

And the chucklefarks STILL don't get that establishing that mechanism is a grave threat to democracy. They lack the foresight to see it turned against their interests.
Soft coups: number one when you're just too disconnected, dimwitted and lazy to win elections on merit.


Who won an election on merit?
 
2017-09-14 12:52:03 PM  
I note this article, like almost every article about the 25th, and every subsequent discussion about the 25th, fails to mention that BOTH houses of Congress must vote to remove the President with 2/3's supermajorities.

That is an even higher bar to clear than actual impeachment.
 
2017-09-14 12:53:55 PM  

Arachnophobe: I don't want him 25th'd. I want him frog-marched out the front door, down a path lined with reporters, photographers and videographers and guided gently into an FBI vehicle. Hopefully at the head of a column including his family and many other Republicans.


Or they could handle him the same way he suggested cops handle perps  - whack the snot out of his head on the way into the backseat.  I would prefer that, actually.
 
2017-09-14 12:58:25 PM  

CPennypacker: neenerist: Nadie_AZ: No. Kill that pipe dream. It's not gonna happen.

And the chucklefarks STILL don't get that establishing that mechanism is a grave threat to democracy. They lack the foresight to see it turned against their interests.
Soft coups: number one when you're just too disconnected, dimwitted and lazy to win elections on merit.

Who won an election on merit?



James Bonaducci in my High School was elected to Student Body President because he was a great student, a diligent volunteer with the community, and his older sister was pretty hot.
 
2017-09-14 01:01:13 PM  

CPennypacker: Who won an election on merit?


Who lost the Senate, House and Oval Office on merit?
 
2017-09-14 01:09:28 PM  
I don't want him 25th'd. I want him arrested.

Pence, too.
And Ryan.
And Yertle.

How low can we go?
 
2017-09-14 01:17:25 PM  
To be fair, if the freaking IndyStar is talking 25th, then shiat's getting real in conservative land.  Or did they merge with Nuvo and I missed it?
 
2017-09-14 01:23:05 PM  
Nice of the author to basically rip off Amendment25.com and add a few quotes and speculation.

The only way Section 4's ever going to be invoked is a Wilson-like incapacity or a similar situation where a President is in a coma (e.g., an assassination attempt that doesn't quite reach its objective, but renders a President unconscious).
 
2017-09-14 01:34:50 PM  

zappadog: I can't take any new seriously from a website that has THIS as a breaking news alert.

[img.fark.net image 850x431]


I had a different but equally WTFAmIReading.jpg heading. Also, the site was quickly closed as soon as it started blaring discount dub-step for some reason. Does anyone enjoy autoplay bs?
 
2017-09-14 01:40:36 PM  
Impeachment is easier than the 25th. The former only requires half of the House, while the latter requires the VP, half the Cabinet, and two-thirds of the House. (Both require two-thirds of the Senate)
 
2017-09-14 01:43:20 PM  

vudukungfu: Oh, please. Reagan was shiatting himself and we did nothing.


He wasn't publicly shiatting himself in front of billions of people in 140 characters or less.
 
2017-09-14 01:43:59 PM  
On CNN right now, the super at the bottom is:

Trump on Clinton: She's blaming everyone but herself.

I'm enjoying the irony. Kind of.
 
2017-09-14 01:45:01 PM  

freetomato: Arachnophobe: I don't want him 25th'd. I want him frog-marched out the front door, down a path lined with reporters, photographers and videographers and guided gently into an FBI vehicle. Hopefully at the head of a column including his family and many other Republicans.

Or they could handle him the same way he suggested cops handle perps  - whack the snot out of his head on the way into the backseat.  I would prefer that, actually.


Don't get me wrong, that would be intensely satisfying on a visceral level, and I would probably watch that video and/or gif for hours on end, but I don't want that happening for two reasons. One, we gotta be better than that, and two, I don't want Trumpers to have ANYTHING they can point to and legitimately claim was inappropriate. I know they won't shut up no matter what, but they don't need anything legit. I want the arrests to be by the book and down to the last letter proper.
 
2017-09-14 02:04:20 PM  

neenerist: CPennypacker: Who won an election on merit?

Who lost the Senate, House and Oval Office on merit?


Nobody lost them on merit
 
2017-09-14 02:09:37 PM  
Presidents are inherently unstable. Thats the only kind of person drawn to the job. At its base it requires you to be so full of yourself to think that you know whats better for people than they do for themselves.
 
2017-09-14 03:00:43 PM  

UNC_Samurai: Serious Black: dittybopper: I wouldn't hang my hopes on the 25th Amendment if I were you.  It's generally conceded to be for situations like when Woodrow Wilson had a stroke, not because you really, really don't like the person who got elected.

It's no surprise I don't like George W. Bush's presidency or that I didn't really care for it at the time. In hindsight, he had his faculties together. He could plan, reason, and remember. He knew well enough to use the amendment to temporarily give Dick Cheney the presidency when he was undergoing medical procedures. Using the instability clause of the 25th Amendment to try and remove Bush would have been a terrible idea.

The current president is entirely different. IMO, he shows signs of progressive dementia. Compare how he spoke decades ago to how he speaks today. Hell, compare how he spoke at the beginning of the campaign to how he speaks today. He was an asshole and self-absorbed decades ago, but he could put complex thoughts together. He could stay on subject for more than a minute at a time. Now he needs all his memos to be less than one page and can't be troubled with more than one potential course of action. Now he flits between topics and positions on topics so fast I have a permanent case of whiplash.

Looking through history, there are only three people I'm confident should have been pulled from the presidency for reasons of being unable to discharge the duties of the office: Woodrow Wilson after his stroke, Ronald Reagan during his second term after the Alzheimer's was starting to chew into his mental faculties, and Donald Trump today with his degenerating mental faculties.

The 25th wasn't ratified until 1967, so it would have been extremely difficult to remove Wilson using that process.


That's what President Obama's Magical Time Machine is for.
 
2017-09-14 03:18:55 PM  

Best Princess Celestia: Presidents are inherently unstable. Thats the only kind of person drawn to the job. At its base it requires you to be so full of yourself to think that you know whats better for people than they do for themselves.


Gosh, that's a good point.  Let's add parents, clergy, doctors, and any other authorities to the list of people who think they know what's better for people than they do themselves.
 
Ant
2017-09-14 03:21:33 PM  

vudukungfu: Oh, please. Reagan was shiatting himself and we did nothing.


Hell, I'd take pants-shiatting zombie Alzheimer Reagan over Trump any day!
 
2017-09-14 03:27:35 PM  

KingBiefWhistle: I'm no fan of the dude but y'all are mistaking an utter lack of tact, forethought, intellectual curiosity and moral fiber for signs of dementia. The guy's not ill, he's just an asshole that couldn't give a fark


I know how to recognize the difference between South Park level "Jesus Christ,Cartman, you are an unbelievable asshole" asshole and dementia.

Look at his interview with Lester Holt: He literally couldn't string together two coherent sentences in a row before the word salad started, and seriously I'm talking about the best salad, the best, have you ever had the salad at Trump Tower, we have the best salad, and taco bowls, because I love the Mexicans, and I won the electoral college, and such as the Iraq... Just one long incredible run on sentence straight out of the Picard Techno.

That's not... well yes it -is- asshole, but it's not just asshole. Not quite normal senile dementia either where someone basically lives in their own past, but is still able to talk "coherently" if you're one of their kids and have the shared context. Trump is just babbling snippets of wordsalad.

Can you say  "tertiary syphilis?"
 
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