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(The Atlantic)   Flynn pitched new "Marshall Plan" to Trump. The plan would provide massive funding to: A) rebuild war torn Iraq, B) rebuild war torn Libya, C) build a bunch of nuclear power plants across the Middle East   ( theatlantic.com) divider line
    More: Asinine, President of the United States, Bill Clinton, Flynn, Turkey, Michael Flynn, Donald Trump, Trump transition team, Trump administration  
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776 clicks; posted to Politics » on 14 Sep 2017 at 9:05 AM (12 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



46 Comments     (+0 »)
 
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2017-09-14 03:56:36 AM  
maybe the retired general would have been better off just disclosing who he wasn't working for

img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2017-09-14 04:51:07 AM  
Wasn't it the Quinn character on "Homeland" a few seasons back who was asked by the brass "how do we win over there?" and replied something like "250,000 troops there for 100 years to protect 100,000 teachers and 20,000 doctors working in the schools and hospitals we need to build" and was met with a response of "we meant how many bombs?"
 
2017-09-14 06:54:58 AM  
Somebody's going to jail...
 
2017-09-14 07:05:28 AM  

Mr. Coffee Nerves: Wasn't it the Quinn character on "Homeland" a few seasons back who was asked by the brass "how do we win over there?" and replied something like "250,000 troops there for 100 years to protect 100,000 teachers and 20,000 doctors working in the schools and hospitals we need to build" and was met with a response of "we meant how many bombs?"


either Quinn or Saul. Sounds more Saul-ish. Could've been Quinn before he went all cuckoo-bananas last season.

/last season was really good
//and incredibly depressing to watch as the election had just passed.
///but they did both Alex Jones and bot farms as a plot point long before it really became known about their impact in RL election
 
2017-09-14 07:38:24 AM  
"...with Russia."

You left that part out of the headline.

Building nuke plants would be a good thing - provided they're new liquid-sodium reactors and not the old version like at Fukushima.
 
2017-09-14 09:11:03 AM  
Jus' saying, wouldn't solar power be a wiser option in the middle east?
 
2017-09-14 09:13:39 AM  

Wessoman: Jus' saying, wouldn't solar power be a wiser option in the middle east?


Yes but how can we use solar farms to justify the next generation of expensive wars of aggression there?
 
2017-09-14 09:14:01 AM  

Mr. Coffee Nerves: Wasn't it the Quinn character on "Homeland" a few seasons back who was asked by the brass "how do we win over there?" and replied something like "250,000 troops there for 100 years to protect 100,000 teachers and 20,000 doctors working in the schools and hospitals we need to build" and was met with a response of "we meant how many bombs?"


imagizer.imageshack.usView Full Size
 
2017-09-14 09:19:27 AM  

Wessoman: Jus' saying, wouldn't solar power be a wiser option in the middle east?


Not necessarily.  The hotter it gets, the less efficient solar panels are going to be (seriously - the ideal locations are sunny and cold), and solar thermal, while getting around the whole "what about at night ha ha gotcha greenie" problem, needs a lot of space and maintenance, and the thing about heat in the Arabian Desert is that it's getting up toward "you will die even with water if you go outside and work all day" levels.

Of course, nuke plants are still stupidly, ridiculously, absurdly expensive and don't scale down, not to mention they tend to need a lot of FARKING WATER in case of emergency so solar may still come out ahead, but it's not the slam-dunk it looks like at first glance.

/DNRTFA, did not do a cost-benefit analysis, criteria above may not apply to parts of the Middle East where Flynn's hare-brained scheme was aimed
 
2017-09-14 09:21:51 AM  
He should spend that on building nuclear plants here in America. Nuclear power is the best way to prevent climate change.
 
2017-09-14 09:23:40 AM  

caira: Wessoman: Jus' saying, wouldn't solar power be a wiser option in the middle east?

Not necessarily.  The hotter it gets, the less efficient solar panels are going to be (seriously - the ideal locations are sunny and cold), and solar thermal, while getting around the whole "what about at night ha ha gotcha greenie" problem, needs a lot of space and maintenance, and the thing about heat in the Arabian Desert is that it's getting up toward "you will die even with water if you go outside and work all day" levels.

Of course, nuke plants are still stupidly, ridiculously, absurdly expensive and don't scale down, not to mention they tend to need a lot of FARKING WATER in case of emergency so solar may still come out ahead, but it's not the slam-dunk it looks like at first glance.

/DNRTFA, did not do a cost-benefit analysis, criteria above may not apply to parts of the Middle East where Flynn's hare-brained scheme was aimed


Don't you also have to worry about sand scratching the panels?
 
2017-09-14 09:24:46 AM  
Is Flynn just insane?  Why on earth would he subject his past and current business dealings to extra scrutiny by becoming part of the Trump administration?

I mean, the same thing could be said for Trump too, but.... well, forget it, my point is lost.
 
2017-09-14 09:25:02 AM  
Two of the four new AP-1000 reactors being built in the U.S. just got cancelled after $9 billion was spent, bankrupting Westinghouse and nearly killing its parent, Toshiba, so why not unload the technology somewhere where they can at least build bombs out of the stuff.
 
2017-09-14 09:25:21 AM  

machoprogrammer: He should spend that on building nuclear plants here in America. Nuclear power is the best way to prevent climate change.


We haven't been building previous gen nuclear power plants because they weren't cost effective when made safely. Next gen nuclear is a great option though.
 
2017-09-14 09:25:34 AM  
Pax Americana with not so much pax in it.
 
2017-09-14 09:27:21 AM  

FlashHarry: "...with Russia."

You left that part out of the headline.

Building nuke plants would be a good thing - provided they're new liquid-sodium reactors and not the old version like at Fukushima.


They could use BRR (Bouncing Russian Reactor)

Construction Halted on Belarus Nuclear Plant After Workers Drop Reactor Vessel
 
2017-09-14 09:27:27 AM  

sparks2021: caira: Wessoman: Jus' saying, wouldn't solar power be a wiser option in the middle east?

Not necessarily.  The hotter it gets, the less efficient solar panels are going to be (seriously - the ideal locations are sunny and cold), and solar thermal, while getting around the whole "what about at night ha ha gotcha greenie" problem, needs a lot of space and maintenance, and the thing about heat in the Arabian Desert is that it's getting up toward "you will die even with water if you go outside and work all day" levels.

Of course, nuke plants are still stupidly, ridiculously, absurdly expensive and don't scale down, not to mention they tend to need a lot of FARKING WATER in case of emergency so solar may still come out ahead, but it's not the slam-dunk it looks like at first glance.

/DNRTFA, did not do a cost-benefit analysis, criteria above may not apply to parts of the Middle East where Flynn's hare-brained scheme was aimed

Don't you also have to worry about sand scratching the panels?


It's not the engineering problems that are holding this back.
 
2017-09-14 09:29:31 AM  

caira: Wessoman: Jus' saying, wouldn't solar power be a wiser option in the middle east?

Not necessarily.  The hotter it gets, the less efficient solar panels are going to be (seriously - the ideal locations are sunny and cold), and solar thermal, while getting around the whole "what about at night ha ha gotcha greenie" problem, needs a lot of space and maintenance, and the thing about heat in the Arabian Desert is that it's getting up toward "you will die even with water if you go outside and work all day" levels.

Of course, nuke plants are still stupidly, ridiculously, absurdly expensive and don't scale down, not to mention they tend to need a lot of FARKING WATER in case of emergency so solar may still come out ahead, but it's not the slam-dunk it looks like at first glance.

/DNRTFA, did not do a cost-benefit analysis, criteria above may not apply to parts of the Middle East where Flynn's hare-brained scheme was aimed


You think we are stupid? We'll build them in winter
 
2017-09-14 09:29:45 AM  
Finally, a scandal that doesn't involve Russia!

FlashHarry: "...with Russia."


God damn it so much.
 
2017-09-14 09:37:26 AM  

Officer Barrelroll: Is Flynn just insane?  Why on earth would he subject his past and current business dealings to extra scrutiny by becoming part of the Trump administration?

I mean, the same thing could be said for Trump too, but.... well, forget it, my point is lost.


It makes sense to me if Trump was supposed to lose, but Russia instead chose to help Trump win (to the degree of outing themselves to US intel) to destabilize the US for fun and stiggint.
 
2017-09-14 09:39:17 AM  

fifthhorseman: Pax Americana with not so much pax in it.


Maybe that's the issue. Too much Pax making that 1% insane like on Miranda.
 
2017-09-14 09:39:19 AM  

Officer Barrelroll: Is Flynn just insane?  Why on earth would he subject his past and current business dealings to extra scrutiny by becoming part of the Trump administration?

I mean, the same thing could be said for Trump too, but.... well, forget it, my point is lost.


No price is too high to pay for stigginit.
 
2017-09-14 09:39:57 AM  

FlashHarry: "...with Russia."

You left that part out of the headline.

Building nuke plants would be a good thing - provided they're new liquid-sodium reactors and not the old version like at Fukushima.


This this this.

Russia recently built one in South Africa and it has been a political shiatstorm for the ANC because of how terrible the contract is.  There are no requirements that it work well or be maintained.  Just that some structure was built and called an nuclear power plant.
 
2017-09-14 09:43:35 AM  
So, who is actually more boned: Flynn or Manafort?

Flynn has his fingers in just about every foreign dealing imaginable and filed legal documents denying he had to do with any of them which is such a slam dunk case. Then again this is "only" bribery, illegal lobbying, and skimming a little off the top of deals which most Americans probably assume happens anyway.

Manafort on the other hand is much more limited degree of foreign involvement but it seems like it was much deeper and clearly crossed the line into flagrantly illegal as hell.
 
2017-09-14 09:44:12 AM  

Wessoman: Jus' saying, wouldn't solar power be a wiser option in the middle east?


Depends on location. The cost of copper/alumnum for longish distance distribution could be a problam
 
2017-09-14 09:46:16 AM  
What the heck iPhone. I wasn't even close to the submit button

To add to my above post. Localizing consumer based solar instead of corporate utility distribution. May be better

/Africa needs consumer based solar to power homes.
 
2017-09-14 09:48:10 AM  

Mukster: fifthhorseman: Pax Americana with not so much pax in it.

Maybe that's the issue. Too much Pax making that 1% insane like on Miranda.


They're Gorram Reavers!
 
2017-09-14 09:49:25 AM  
How the fark does someone as farking crazy as Flynn get promoted all the way to his position?  Is he nuts or a true believer?

We have a serious problem with the mentally ill and incompetent failing upwards all the way to the top.

I picked the wrong farking career.
 
2017-09-14 09:50:03 AM  
He should never refer to it as a Marshall Plan, because when you start off explaining who Marshall was to Trump you'll lose him by minute 5.
 
2017-09-14 09:50:56 AM  

Mukster: fifthhorseman: Pax Americana with not so much pax in it.

Maybe that's the issue. Too much Pax making that 1% insane like on Miranda.


i.pinimg.comView Full Size
 
2017-09-14 09:51:28 AM  

Grungehamster: So, who is actually more boned: Flynn or Manafort?

Flynn has his fingers in just about every foreign dealing imaginable and filed legal documents denying he had to do with any of them which is such a slam dunk case. Then again this is "only" bribery, illegal lobbying, and skimming a little off the top of deals which most Americans probably assume happens anyway.

Manafort on the other hand is much more limited degree of foreign involvement but it seems like it was much deeper and clearly crossed the line into flagrantly illegal as hell.


img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2017-09-14 09:56:24 AM  

monkeydude5656: How the fark does someone as farking crazy as Flynn get promoted all the way to his position?  Is he nuts or a true believer?

We have a serious problem with the mentally ill and incompetent failing upwards all the way to the top.

I picked the wrong farking career.


You need to be the former in order to be the latter.
 
2017-09-14 09:58:03 AM  

sparks2021: caira: Wessoman: Jus' saying, wouldn't solar power be a wiser option in the middle east?

Not necessarily.  The hotter it gets, the less efficient solar panels are going to be (seriously - the ideal locations are sunny and cold), and solar thermal, while getting around the whole "what about at night ha ha gotcha greenie" problem, needs a lot of space and maintenance, and the thing about heat in the Arabian Desert is that it's getting up toward "you will die even with water if you go outside and work all day" levels.

Of course, nuke plants are still stupidly, ridiculously, absurdly expensive and don't scale down, not to mention they tend to need a lot of FARKING WATER in case of emergency so solar may still come out ahead, but it's not the slam-dunk it looks like at first glance.

/DNRTFA, did not do a cost-benefit analysis, criteria above may not apply to parts of the Middle East where Flynn's hare-brained scheme was aimed

Don't you also have to worry about sand scratching the panels?


Dust reduces their efficiency.

img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2017-09-14 10:06:01 AM  

Tr0mBoNe: Mr. Coffee Nerves: Wasn't it the Quinn character on "Homeland" a few seasons back who was asked by the brass "how do we win over there?" and replied something like "250,000 troops there for 100 years to protect 100,000 teachers and 20,000 doctors working in the schools and hospitals we need to build" and was met with a response of "we meant how many bombs?"

[imagizer.imageshack.us image 640x478]


This.  I have long wondered how much better the world would be if we dropped food and water and information and technology on people instead of bombs.  But, apparently, that makes me some kind of irrational hippie or something.

Besides, if we don't give distant populations perfectly cromulent reasons to hate us, they won't give us wafer thin "reasons" to drop more bombs on them, and what fun would that be? I mean, the correct small group of already insanely wealthy people wouldn't make more money, and we can't have that!
 
2017-09-14 10:14:21 AM  

Jonnadiah: Wessoman: Jus' saying, wouldn't solar power be a wiser option in the middle east?

Yes but how can we use solar farms to justify the next generation of expensive wars of aggression there?


Yeah, this was my first thought too - selling a bunch of nuke plants in the Middle East is a handy way to pre-plant an excuse to invade whatever local dictator gives you trouble for the next thirty years.

"But didn't we sell them the nuke plants?"
"Well, too late to worry about that now, we have to invade them before they kill us all!"
"But when we sold them the nuke plants, you assured us they couldn't be used to make bomb material!"
"Well, too late to worry about that now, we have to invade them before they kill us all!"

If you were lucky, their Sunday-show spokescreatures (who are contractually obligated to make a few token nods in the direction of intellectual honesty) might do you the courtesy of saying "Whoops, our bad" before chiding us for arguing about who killed who and pointing out that now we have to invade them before they kill us all.
 
2017-09-14 10:25:12 AM  

Jonnadiah: Wessoman: Jus' saying, wouldn't solar power be a wiser option in the middle east?

Yes but how can we use solar farms to justify the next generation of expensive wars of aggression there?


Space Elevators.
 
2017-09-14 10:44:56 AM  
img.fark.netView Full Size


HIs "character" is "Big Fat Liar." When did "Big Fat Liar" become praise worthy?
What fresh Hell is this?
 
2017-09-14 11:23:41 AM  

fifthhorseman: Pax Americana with not so much pax in it.


See also Pax Britannica and Pax Ramanum. All had lots of war in them. Just no huge globe spanning wars or (for the Romans) major civil Wars. These small overseas wars don't count.
 
2017-09-14 11:32:08 AM  

Wessoman: Jus' saying, wouldn't solar power be a wiser option in the middle east?


Republicans don't believe in solar power. Probably think the sun would get used up or something...
 
2017-09-14 11:34:01 AM  

Mithiwithi: Jonnadiah: Wessoman: Jus' saying, wouldn't solar power be a wiser option in the middle east?

Yes but how can we use solar farms to justify the next generation of expensive wars of aggression there?

Yeah, this was my first thought too - selling a bunch of nuke plants in the Middle East is a handy way to pre-plant an excuse to invade whatever local dictator gives you trouble for the next thirty years.

"But didn't we sell them the nuke plants?"
"Well, too late to worry about that now, we have to invade them before they kill us all!"
"But when we sold them the nuke plants, you assured us they couldn't be used to make bomb material!"
"Well, too late to worry about that now, we have to invade them before they kill us all!"

If you were lucky, their Sunday-show spokescreatures (who are contractually obligated to make a few token nods in the direction of intellectual honesty) might do you the courtesy of saying "Whoops, our bad" before chiding us for arguing about who killed who and pointing out that now we have to invade them before they kill us all.


That was basically my first thought, but then...

What if they deliberately built the nuke plants to fail, thus "accidentally" wiping out a huge portion of Middle Easterners and making the region basically uninhabitable?

/dons tin foil hat
 
2017-09-14 11:34:09 AM  

70Ford: [img.fark.net image 648x294]

HIs "character" is "Big Fat Liar." When did "Big Fat Liar" become praise worthy?
What fresh Hell is this?


Look at who inhabits the White House. That should explain everything.
 
2017-09-14 12:05:54 PM  
I have one serious problem with this plan.  I'm not going to second-guess the strategy because I'm not qualified, however; I do have concern that the original Marshall Plan was a bipartisan effort approved by Congress, and was named after George Marshall, who was Secretary of State, former Chief of Staff of the US Army, Nobel peace Prize winner, and the 'organizer' for Allied victory in ww2 per Winston Churchhill.

Mike Flynn is no George Marshall, and Flynn's idea of bipartisanship is working both with Republicans and Russians.
 
2017-09-14 12:30:19 PM  

MaliFinn: I have one serious problem with this plan.  I'm not going to second-guess the strategy because I'm not qualified, however; I do have concern that the original Marshall Plan was a bipartisan effort approved by Congress, and was named after George Marshall, who was Secretary of State, former Chief of Staff of the US Army, Nobel peace Prize winner, and the 'organizer' for Allied victory in ww2 per Winston Churchhill.

Mike Flynn is no George Marshall, and Flynn's idea of bipartisanship is working both with Republicans and Russians.


Also I have assumptions that Flynn's idea of a "Marshall Plan" would be to just have Russian businesses prosper and in return Christian missionaries from the US and Russia get legal protections from being arrested in trying to convert Muslims in Arab countries. (If not Flynn, that would be Pence's plan at least) As opposed to any actual help in educating the population and helping them find well paying jobs that would help prevent their interest in joining any extremist terrorist groups.
 
2017-09-14 05:58:38 PM  

caira: The hotter it gets, the less efficient solar panels are going to be


Less than half a percent decline in output per degree celsius.

It's true that the perfect situation is both sunny and cold, but that mostly doesn't exist.  The best place to put them is the place where they make the most power-- and while the efficiency drops a bit someplace like Arizona, the average lack of cloud cover and long days completely overwhelm the small efficiency dip.
 
2017-09-14 07:14:41 PM  

raygundan: caira: The hotter it gets, the less efficient solar panels are going to be

Less than half a percent decline in output per degree celsius.

It's true that the perfect situation is both sunny and cold, but that mostly doesn't exist.  The best place to put them is the place where they make the most power-- and while the efficiency drops a bit someplace like Arizona, the average lack of cloud cover and long days completely overwhelm the small efficiency dip.


And the solar intensity is higher the closer you get to the equator.  Not sure which effect wins, but I'd guess it would still produce plenty of power.  As stated earlier, the distribution infrastructure is the hurdle, though not that big of one.  I've already seen plans of creating a huge solar generation system across the M.E. and North Africa, with distribution to power Europe.  Not even that crazy, as the distances involved are similar to those in the U.S.
 
2017-09-15 03:47:59 AM  

raygundan: caira: The hotter it gets, the less efficient solar panels are going to be

Less than half a percent decline in output per degree celsius.

It's true that the perfect situation is both sunny and cold, but that mostly doesn't exist.  The best place to put them is the place where they make the most power-- and while the efficiency drops a bit someplace like Arizona, the average lack of cloud cover and long days completely overwhelm the small efficiency dip.


Huh, that's less of an effect than I thought. I stand corrected. I think I was subconsciously going off an old report that pointed out one of those areas that mostly don't exist does exist in Tasmania...
 
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