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(MSN)   Racism is as American as baseball   ( msn.com) divider line
    More: Fail, Boston Red Sox, Red Sox, Fenway Park, Red Sox owner, Fenway Park security, Adam Jones, Red Sox ownership, Orioles outfielder Adam  
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5039 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 Sep 2017 at 1:42 AM (13 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2017-09-14 09:18:15 AM  

IlGreven: I can't figure out how to react until I learn whether that banner was displayed by the KKK or BLM.


I'm assuming it was anti-racism activists making (or trying to make) an anti-racism-in-America statement.

(From a quick survey of posts from my Facebook friends this morning, that's not how it was received.)
 
2017-09-14 09:20:51 AM  

jso2897: It was built on land stolen


No that I think of it, the United States is the only country in the world that has displaced the population of peoples previously living on the land.
 
2017-09-14 09:24:16 AM  

parkthebus: jso2897: That America is supposedly "less racist" than other nations - a demonstrable falsehood - we are a nation whose VERY EXISTENCE was only made possible by racism, and that was literally built out of racism -- block by block.
It was built on land stolen from people who had been declared subhuman, mostly with labor extracted from people who had been declared subhuman.

Someone needs to learn a bit of world history and stop being so parochial. Perhaps you could consider traveling a bit too. America is not the first place what you described has happened. The library is full of books, maybe you could read a few?


"Ethnic cleansing" is going on right now in several places throughout the world.  It could be argued that America today is more racist than most places in Europe.  It certainly can't be argued that America is more racist than the places that are murdering hundreds of thousands of people, right now, today (e.g. Sudan, Syria).
 
2017-09-14 09:26:34 AM  

SteveGrogansGoat: Some background - an 8 year old black kid was nearly lynched by some teenagers in New Hampshire recently. They hanged him, and he damn near died. New Hampshire. And at the memorial/protest, pickup trucks flying the confederate stars and bars showed up to roll coal. In New Hampshire. The Red Sox are New England's team, and that means New Hampshire. In light of that, I don't have an issue with the protest banner.


Have a citation on the confederate flags at the Claremont protest?
 
2017-09-14 09:29:50 AM  
Mayor Tilman: Do you like baseball, do you, Anderson?
Anderson: Yeah, I do. You know, it's the only time when a black man can wave a stick at a white man and not start a riot.
 
2017-09-14 09:36:22 AM  

parkthebus: jso2897: That America is supposedly "less racist" than other nations - a demonstrable falsehood - we are a nation whose VERY EXISTENCE was only made possible by racism, and that was literally built out of racism -- block by block.
It was built on land stolen from people who had been declared subhuman, mostly with labor extracted from people who had been declared subhuman.

Someone needs to learn a bit of world history and stop being so parochial. Perhaps you could consider traveling a bit too. America is not the first place what you described has happened. The library is full of books, maybe you could read a few?


I never said it was unique in any way, fool. Quit putting words in people's mouths and fighting strawmen.
I've read more books than you have ever seen, most likely.
 
2017-09-14 09:38:23 AM  

Callous: ox45tallboy: Human beings are tribal by nature

This

How specific that tribalism gets is generally dependent on the level of perceived threat.  Should aliens invade earth, racism would disappear real quick.

But even sports rivalries are an example of tribalism.  Take Boston for instance.  Very racist city but in love with David Ortiz, Pedro Martinez, etc.  And if a fight breaks out between a black guy wearing a Red Sox hat and a white guy wearing a Yankees hat the Yankees fan is gonna get dog piled on.

The banner is very true especially in Boston, but it's a truth that Boston really likes to pretend isn't true.  Hence the proposal to rename Yawkey way.  We're more concerned about how the rest of the world perceives us than the actual problem.


Why is it that people are so stunned to find racists in blue states/cities?  Trump got 33% of the vote in Massachusetts, so yeah, it should come as no surprise that there's tens of thousands of racists living there.  But tarring the entire city with a "very racist" moniker is a bit premature.  There's always going to racist assholes no matter where you go, but let's not forget that little less than a month ago, the very same city that we're so quick to deem "very racist" had a huge response to the white supremacist assholes that made national headlines.  Also, Boston and Mass don't elect large numbers racists so while they're certainly there, they don't get to make public policy.
 
2017-09-14 09:39:27 AM  

Frank N Stein: jso2897: It was built on land stolen

No that I think of it, the United States is the only country in the world that has displaced the population of peoples previously living on the land.


No it isn't - and I neither said nor implied that is was. Seems like the slightest criticism gets some people's backs up.
 
2017-09-14 09:42:07 AM  

Frank N Stein: No that I think of it, the United States is the only country in the world that has displaced the population of peoples previously living on the land.


You might want to read the history of Europe sometime.  Displacement, invasion, extermination, and/or subjugation of the existing population is kinda a common thing there over the last few thousand years.  But we're perhaps the most striking modern example of it in the last three centuries.  So I get your point.

We're a young country, and still dealing with a cultural adolescence.  Our founding was rocky as hell, as much as we attempt to romanticize it.  Combining dozens of large cultures in that period of time isn't going to produce anything resembling a smooth result this quickly.  We're basically a milkshake 3 seconds after turning on the blender.

Only 150 years since ending slavery, only 50 years since ending Jim Crow and integrating schools and the Loving v. Virginia case.  We still have so far to go.  We spook easily, are threatened easily.  Our "cultural" institutions are weak and self-defeating, and people feel the need to defend and violently react at verbal threats to them.  And worst of all, we're horribly myopic. If it didn't happen here, if it hasn't been tried here, it's not even in people's mind as a possibility.  We have little idea of the scope of history and our part in it.
 
2017-09-14 09:42:50 AM  

Persnickety: Why is it that people are so stunned to find racists in blue states/cities? Trump got 33% of the vote in Massachusetts, so yeah, it should come as no surprise that there's tens of thousands of racists living there. But tarring the entire city with a "very racist" moniker is a bit premature. There's always going to racist assholes no matter where you go, but let's not forget that little less than a month ago, the very same city that we're so quick to deem "very racist" had a huge response to the white supremacist assholes that made national headlines. Also, Boston and Mass don't elect large numbers racists so while they're certainly there, they don't get to make public policy.


I think the majority of Americans want to see us change for the better. I don't doubt that it's true in Mass.
 
2017-09-14 09:44:38 AM  

Khellendros: You might want to read the history of Europe sometime.  Displacement, invasion, extermination, and/or subjugation of the existing population is kinda a common thing there over the last few thousand years.  But we're perhaps the most striking modern example of it in the last three centuries.  So I get your point.


I was being sarcastic. I'm fully aware of displacement that's happened in Europe (and in Italy specifically, since I studied it in college as my minor)
 
2017-09-14 09:51:06 AM  

lack of warmth: adj_m: The US was the first in recent history to assert that skin colour made you less of a human, closer to cattle.

This right here is evidence of not studying history means it gets repeated.  The US weren't the first, nor the last place it happened.  WWII wasn't even the first time a country tried to exterminate all Jews.  Actually, previous attempts to kill them all is how most ended up in Poland and Germany.  In case you didn't know, Germany wasn't the last.  Poland tried killing Jews returning after the war, which led to why most ended up in Israel or the US.  Israel was formed because the Allies didn't want all of them.  WWII was history repeating, and so is all the other racist garbage going on now.


I'd say that had more to do with religious persecution than with the colour of their skin, and when was the last time they were enslaved on a national level? Ancient Egypt?

You could argue that Hitler took more than a few pages from the US slavery book to dehumanize them though.
 
2017-09-14 09:55:43 AM  
This is no big deal - we are just too sensitive to criticism.
The ideal is that racism is "Un-American" - and that's a great ideal, and one that I heartily endorse.
But the reality is that America is a racist nation, born and bred in racism, and only existing because of racism.
It is nothing to cry about, be especially ashamed of, feel personal guilt about, or apologize for.
It does not make us by any means unique.
But it is a bad thing, and we need to fix it, and good Americans want to fix it.
That is all.
 
2017-09-14 09:57:37 AM  
We need to come together as Americans to rid ourselves of both scourges.
 
2017-09-14 10:02:00 AM  

Frank N Stein: I was being sarcastic. I'm fully aware of displacement that's happened in Europe (and in Italy specifically, since I studied it in college as my minor)


Ah, my apologies then.  I'm surprised by the number of people who think what you said is accurate.

adj_m: You could argue that Hitler took more than a few pages from the US slavery book to dehumanize them though.


Well, the modern concept of a concentration camp (including the name itself) was generally invented by the Brits during the Second Boer War in the late 1890s.  But things like it were not uncommon in the decades before.  So they certainly sourced their ideas from many places.

And their persecution was both religious and ethnic.  It makes a very easy and clean target when religion and ethnicity are so cleanly tied - and the religion is also the progenitor of the popular faith in the region.  The elements called out to identify them and call them genetically weak were ethnic, but their "dangerous" practices were based on their faith and culture.  So a little of column A, a little of column B....
 
2017-09-14 10:02:58 AM  

varnigus: We need to come together as Americans to rid ourselves of both scourges.


There are only two scourges?
Looks like a lot more, to me.
 
2017-09-14 10:04:17 AM  

jso2897: varnigus: We need to come together as Americans to rid ourselves of both scourges.

There are only two scourges?
Looks like a lot more, to me.


"Scourges" is archaic. They're called "leagues" now.
 
2017-09-14 10:06:01 AM  

NotTooLittleRichard: parkthebus: NotTooLittleRichard: parkthebus: Which is funny as racism is something the whole world shares, with America being one of the least offenders. If the sign said "Racism is as Japanese as baseball" it would have been more accurate.

Wanna try to explain that?  Does Japan have a bunch of statues of people who fought and died to keep others as property?

America didn't invent racism, but you damn well perfected it.

Google is your friend. Japanese racism is well known. Seek and you will find. Plus, they like baseball too.

 Yeah, Japan has racism.  And it sucks. But it's "harder than I'd like to rent an apartment" sucks.  Not "the police are going to pull me over, murder me, and get off without incident" sucks.

11 years and I've never been the victim of any violent or intimidating racism here.  And neither have any others I know.


You sound white.
Japan is not fun when black or brown.
 
2017-09-14 10:07:51 AM  

NotTooLittleRichard: Does Japan have a bunch of statues of people who fought and died to keep others as property?


Japan was a feudal society into the late 1800s. You could argue it still was until 1945.

Pretty much any statuary of nobles would be of a person who kept people as property. That's what serfs were.
 
2017-09-14 10:15:12 AM  
Yeah it's not like racism is farking everywhere on this goddamn planet - but sure, let's blame America
 
2017-09-14 10:17:10 AM  

SirEattonHogg: Monkeyfark Ridiculous: orangehat: ralphjr: Racism in baseball? That's disgusting! I bet Ty Cobb is rolling in his grave.

Ironically, Ty Cobb put a lot more black kids through college than the Red Sox ever did.

Ty Cobb was no saint but he had a massive hatchet job done on his reputation by an asshole author or two.

/"the Negro should be accepted and not grudgingly but wholeheartedly." - Cobb on racial integration of baseball

??? I really have to look this up.  Cobb is like the anti-hero of baseball lore.  Granted I'm more just a casual baseball fan but Cobb is the villain - the talented guy but opposite Babe Ruth and Honus Wagner.  When I think of Cobb  I think of Tommy Lee Jones' depiction of the guy.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Stump#Accusations_of_forgery
http://www.wbur.org/onlyagame/2015/05/16/ty-cobb-book-charles-leerhse​n
http://haulsofshame.com/Final%20SABR%20Article%20-%20as%20published_6​7​44.pdf

Al Stump was a fraud and a con who stole memorabilia from a dying man and faked what he didn't steal, and gleefully pissed on his legacy doing so.

None of Stump's accusations can be verified. A large chunk of them can be provably refuted.
 
2017-09-14 10:18:55 AM  

ElwoodCuse: Baseball that has exploited the hell out of Latin America for decades? That has laughable numbers of minorities in management and front offices? That has had dwindling numbers of African-American players for decades?


For the purposes of your rant, is David Ortiz African-American or Latin-American?
 
2017-09-14 10:21:29 AM  

sn0wblind: NotTooLittleRichard: parkthebus: NotTooLittleRichard: parkthebus: Which is funny as racism is something the whole world shares, with America being one of the least offenders. If the sign said "Racism is as Japanese as baseball" it would have been more accurate.

Wanna try to explain that?  Does Japan have a bunch of statues of people who fought and died to keep others as property?

America didn't invent racism, but you damn well perfected it.

Google is your friend. Japanese racism is well known. Seek and you will find. Plus, they like baseball too.

 Yeah, Japan has racism.  And it sucks. But it's "harder than I'd like to rent an apartment" sucks.  Not "the police are going to pull me over, murder me, and get off without incident" sucks.

11 years and I've never been the victim of any violent or intimidating racism here.  And neither have any others I know.

You sound white.
Japan is not fun when black or brown.


Or Korean. When they disappear, they "just went home." The closure rate for murders and missing persons is deliberately suppressed for gaijin, especially the "sick men of Asia." That's quite a bit more of a problem than being stared at constantly, having trouble finding a home, or seeing blackface on tv.
 
2017-09-14 10:22:32 AM  

Khellendros: You might want to read the history of Europe sometime.  Displacement, invasion, extermination, and/or subjugation of the existing population is kinda a common thing there over the last few thousand years.  But we're perhaps the most striking modern example of it in the last three centuries.  So I get your point.


Really?

Danzig/Gdansk has been ethnically cleansed four or five times since the American civil war.

This happened as late as 1947.
 
2017-09-14 10:28:58 AM  

Mike_LowELL: MikeyFuccon: The more I see and hear of people, the more convinced I am that that's just how they are.

Well, the thing is, I have a friend, he says that human beings are blank canvases, like, humans would die from a lack of oxygen if they didn't learn how to breathe from their parents.  But I have another friend who says that our genetics overpower any cultural predisposition, and therefore, Pepe the Frog was right to deny memes based on the color of their skin.

Makes me wonder what you guy's think.  I know your all capable of hereing each other out.


Old Mike is in with the reverse-grammar-nazi troll. Good show.
 
2017-09-14 10:37:02 AM  
See when I first heard about this story I thought it was about how the sign was calling out the inherit racism in baseball.
Cause even decades after Jackie Robinson Baseball is racist as fark, with the minor leagues still having lots of very backward-ass compensation and performance.  Hell until moneyball players who were huge team players but not hitters routinely were paid based on the completely arbitrary value management assigned them.

Now clearly that wasn't the signs intention but damn people racism is super alive in the US especially around sports fans.
 
2017-09-14 10:38:40 AM  

PhilCollinsBeatBox: Yeah it's not like racism is farking everywhere on this goddamn planet - but sure, let's blame America


Forchrissake thank you!! (Love the username, too)

Sometimes I just want to shake people. The whole freakin planet needs a raw, unsanitized history lesson. Which evidently should start at the point we were still cavemen grunting and pointing at crap.

So many uneducated parrots in this thread.
 
2017-09-14 10:40:12 AM  
If only that had been followed up with a 'Sieg Heil' to punctuate the stupidity
 
2017-09-14 10:47:09 AM  

Likwit: durbnpoisn: Humans are a blank slate.

No, they're definitely not. Now, you could argue that racism is a learned behavior, but humans are not a blank slate.


Well, that's good.  Because that is precisely what I argued in every sentence following that one.

Perhaps I should clarify that there is a difference between racism and bigotry.  Humans are a blank slate where bigotry is concerned.  That is absolutely learned behavior.
 
2017-09-14 10:55:47 AM  

durbnpoisn: Likwit: durbnpoisn: Humans are a blank slate.

No, they're definitely not. Now, you could argue that racism is a learned behavior, but humans are not a blank slate.

Well, that's good.  Because that is precisely what I argued in every sentence following that one.

Perhaps I should clarify that there is a difference between racism and bigotry.  Humans are a blank slate where bigotry is concerned.  That is absolutely learned behavior.


Citation, please. Evolutionary psychology suggests that it's not a learned behavior, but a terrible and brutal vestige of days gone by.
 
2017-09-14 11:00:53 AM  
Get A BRAIN! MORANS
IT'S apple pie!.
 
2017-09-14 11:06:58 AM  

This text is now purple: SirEattonHogg: Monkeyfark Ridiculous: orangehat: ralphjr: Racism in baseball? That's disgusting! I bet Ty Cobb is rolling in his grave.

Ironically, Ty Cobb put a lot more black kids through college than the Red Sox ever did.

Ty Cobb was no saint but he had a massive hatchet job done on his reputation by an asshole author or two.

/"the Negro should be accepted and not grudgingly but wholeheartedly." - Cobb on racial integration of baseball

??? I really have to look this up.  Cobb is like the anti-hero of baseball lore.  Granted I'm more just a casual baseball fan but Cobb is the villain - the talented guy but opposite Babe Ruth and Honus Wagner.  When I think of Cobb  I think of Tommy Lee Jones' depiction of the guy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Stump#Accusations_of_forgery
http://www.wbur.org/onlyagame/2015/05/16/ty-cobb-book-charles-leerhsen
http://haulsofshame.com/Final%20SABR%20Article%20-%20as%20published_67​44.pdf

Al Stump was a fraud and a con who stole memorabilia from a dying man and faked what he didn't steal, and gleefully pissed on his legacy doing so.

None of Stump's accusations can be verified. A large chunk of them can be provably refuted.


That may be true, but Cobb early on was very much racist. To be fair, he probably wasn't any more racist than the average white man born in Georgia in the 1880's was, and there were players (Cap Anson in particular) who's racism is probably less well known and scrutinized. He was just the biggest all around asshole in the media of that day and if you're an asshole to the media, they'll tar you the most.
 
2017-09-14 11:17:33 AM  

Frank N Stein: jso2897: It was built on land stolen

No that I think of it, the United States is the only country in the world that has displaced the population of peoples previously living on the land.


It's not even the only country in North America that has done that. Canada did it, too. Look up their schooling system for the indigenous folks, it's horrible.
 
2017-09-14 11:19:42 AM  

Splinthar: See when I first heard about this story I thought it was about how the sign was calling out the inherit racism in baseball.
Cause even decades after Jackie Robinson Baseball is racist as fark, with the minor leagues still having lots of very backward-ass compensation and performance.  Hell until moneyball players who were huge team players but not hitters routinely were paid based on the completely arbitrary value management assigned them.

Now clearly that wasn't the signs intention but damn people racism is super alive in the US especially around sports fans.


I would argue that baseball is probably the most fully integrated sport.  Of course, I'm a fan of the Dodgers, which has a black manager, three asian starting pitchers, a rainbow coalition of other players, and a general tradition of inclusiveness.  And the whole moneyball aspect has, in fact, caused massive amounts of different stats to fall from the sky, to be able to prove somebody's worth in a non-biased fashion.

As for the minor leagues, everybody there is treated like shiat, black, white, brown, or purple.  On the lower levels (A ball), salaries are less than minimum wage if you include mandatory practice and team meeting time and travel and the like.  Of course, the goal there is to get enough coaching and practice to move up and eventually make the majors (where minimum salaries are ridiculously high).  The minor leagues are on-the-job training, nothing more, nothing less.  They are not a means to an end by themselves.
 
2017-09-14 11:20:44 AM  

machoprogrammer: Frank N Stein: jso2897: It was built on land stolen

No that I think of it, the United States is the only country in the world that has displaced the population of peoples previously living on the land.

It's not even the only country in North America that has done that. Canada did it, too. Look up their schooling system for the indigenous folks, it's horrible.


Japan. Lots of places in Europe too. It's just the people doing the stealing we're a different culture, not color, so for some reason that doesn't count.
 
2017-09-14 11:20:52 AM  

machoprogrammer: Frank N Stein: jso2897: It was built on land stolen

No that I think of it, the United States is the only country in the world that has displaced the population of peoples previously living on the land.

It's not even the only country in North America that has done that. Canada did it, too. Look up their schooling system for the indigenous folks, it's horrible.


Australia also farked over their indigenous population extremely thoroughly.
 
2017-09-14 11:21:58 AM  

SteveGrogansGoat: Some background - an 8 year old black kid was nearly lynched by some teenagers in New Hampshire recently. They hanged him, and he damn near died. New Hampshire. And at the memorial/protest, pickup trucks flying the confederate stars and bars showed up to roll coal. In New Hampshire. The Red Sox are New England's team, and that means New Hampshire. In light of that, I don't have an issue with the protest banner.


I moved from New Hampshire to South Carolina.

There is significantly more racism in New Hampshire. It may (sometimes) be less overt, but there's nonetheless more of it. New Hampshire is a lily-white state, even more so in the rural areas. In South Carolina, people of different races interact on a daily basis. Certainly there are exceptions, but the sheer difficulty of dealing only with people of your own race, while others around you obviously have no such problems, makes it clear to such a person that they are the exception.

Anyone who flies the Southern Cross (note: the Stars and Bars is a different flag -- see: Georgia state flag) in a Union state should be forcibly relocated to the south. :p
 
2017-09-14 11:26:52 AM  
Bleeding, phrenology, and sawing off limbs to treat wounds used to be as American as baseball too.  We (mostly, sigh) don't do that stupid shiat anymore either.  It's almost like there's some sort of process, where we slowly lose the stupider behaviors we engage in in order to function more effectively as a species.  Almost...
 
2017-09-14 11:26:57 AM  

Persnickety: Callous: ox45tallboy: Human beings are tribal by nature

This

How specific that tribalism gets is generally dependent on the level of perceived threat.  Should aliens invade earth, racism would disappear real quick.

But even sports rivalries are an example of tribalism.  Take Boston for instance.  Very racist city but in love with David Ortiz, Pedro Martinez, etc.  And if a fight breaks out between a black guy wearing a Red Sox hat and a white guy wearing a Yankees hat the Yankees fan is gonna get dog piled on.

The banner is very true especially in Boston, but it's a truth that Boston really likes to pretend isn't true.  Hence the proposal to rename Yawkey way.  We're more concerned about how the rest of the world perceives us than the actual problem.

Why is it that people are so stunned to find racists in blue states/cities?  Trump got 33% of the vote in Massachusetts, so yeah, it should come as no surprise that there's tens of thousands of racists living there.  But tarring the entire city with a "very racist" moniker is a bit premature.  There's always going to racist assholes no matter where you go, but let's not forget that little less than a month ago, the very same city that we're so quick to deem "very racist" had a huge response to the white supremacist assholes that made national headlines.  Also, Boston and Mass don't elect large numbers racists so while they're certainly there, they don't get to make public policy.


The problem is that we(Bostonians) like to pretend it's not there.  And it's very much there.  It's not so much in the elected officials as much as the un-elected ones.

Example:  Myself, father, brother, and brother's father-in-law all applied for gun permits for the first time at the same time.  We all took the safety coarse at the same place at the same time.  Myself, father, and brother all got Licences To Carry with no restrictions.  My brother's FIL is a retired army veteran who currently contracts for the Army testing small arms after they are refurbished.  He has a spotless criminal record but got limited to target and hunting only.  So the Army pays him to test machine guns but the local police chief doesn't trust him with a pistol.  Me, my father and brother are all white(looking, my bro and I are part native american from our mother) and have a white last name.  Brother's FIL is Hispanic with a Hispanic last name.  That's the kind of institutionalized racism I'm talking about.  The kind that doesn't get addressed.
 
2017-09-14 11:30:02 AM  

Likwit: machoprogrammer: Frank N Stein: jso2897: It was built on land stolen

No that I think of it, the United States is the only country in the world that has displaced the population of peoples previously living on the land.

It's not even the only country in North America that has done that. Canada did it, too. Look up their schooling system for the indigenous folks, it's horrible.

Japan. Lots of places in Europe too. It's just the people doing the stealing we're a different culture, not color, so for some reason that doesn't count.


South America's history of racism and racist culture makes ours look like amateur hour.

Worldwalker: SteveGrogansGoat: Some background - an 8 year old black kid was nearly lynched by some teenagers in New Hampshire recently. They hanged him, and he damn near died. New Hampshire. And at the memorial/protest, pickup trucks flying the confederate stars and bars showed up to roll coal. In New Hampshire. The Red Sox are New England's team, and that means New Hampshire. In light of that, I don't have an issue with the protest banner.

I moved from New Hampshire to South Carolina.

There is significantly more racism in New Hampshire. It may (sometimes) be less overt, but there's nonetheless more of it. New Hampshire is a lily-white state, even more so in the rural areas. In South Carolina, people of different races interact on a daily basis. Certainly there are exceptions, but the sheer difficulty of dealing only with people of your own race, while others around you obviously have no such problems, makes it clear to such a person that they are the exception.

Anyone who flies the Southern Cross (note: the Stars and Bars is a different flag -- see: Georgia state flag) in a Union state should be forcibly relocated to the south. :p


That's a trend i've noticed throughout the western world, sort of like gay homophobes - areas of an overwhelming homogeneous ethnicity claiming to not be racist but then turning out to be racist as soon as minorities show up.
 
2017-09-14 11:34:27 AM  
Racism is as Human as opposable thumbs.
 
2017-09-14 11:36:00 AM  
Racism versus baseball. It is a moot point which sport is the more tedious and never-ending to watch or play.

Have you ever tried to watch a cricket game, though?

The British have a lock on taking their pleasures sadly. And dull. And American racism is largely the work of the British, the Irish and Germans. With a bit of input from the Spanish and others.

I always say that there is a level of stupidity so thick that it becomes indistinguishable from evil. To quote Sandy the Squirrel, "You are nothing but pure evil. Just like the newspape comics!"
 
2017-09-14 11:38:07 AM  
In Rugby and Football you get to run with the ball. This represents the fake news and fake issues that partisans are always fighting over and the points gained, as measured by yardage and hitting the opposite goal with your ball of bullshiat.
 
2017-09-14 11:43:36 AM  
It's as global as soccer - and a lot of countries are much better at it (worse) than the US.


/doesn't excuse our domestic nazis though
//fark those guys
 
2017-09-14 11:46:16 AM  

This text is now purple: NotTooLittleRichard: Does Japan have a bunch of statues of people who fought and died to keep others as property?

Japan was a feudal society into the late 1800s. You could argue it still was until 1945.

Pretty much any statuary of nobles would be of a person who kept people as property. That's what serfs were.


Just a minor quibble: serfs were not slaves. Both were not free, but there were certain significant differences.(more so in some societies than others, of course) In particular, serfs belonged to the land, not directly to the landowner. So you own a farm and that farm has a family of serfs working it, but the actual thing you own is the farm; the serfs are more of an asset, like a pond or a forest, instead of a separate thing, like a plow or a pig. I'm most familiar with the society of Middle-Ages England, so this may be less applicable to other countries (Russia in particular comes to mind) but one of the major differences between free and unfree peasants was that the latter were subject to more fees and taxes, owed more labor, etc., to the local lord. For some things (from marrying to moving) they required the lord's permission. But, in actual practice, only the difference in obligations really mattered. Slaves, on the other hand, were direct property of their owners. They could be bought and sold, taken to other places, and so on. They had fewer legal protections, and less of a secure place in society, than serfs.

So there's a lot of complexity and nuance there, but owning land with serfs on it is not quite the same thing as owning slaves. The serfs were part of the land, not separate chattels.
 
2017-09-14 11:55:16 AM  

Callous: ox45tallboy: Human beings are tribal by nature

This

How specific that tribalism gets is generally dependent on the level of perceived threat.  Should aliens invade earth, racism would disappear real quick.

But even sports rivalries are an example of tribalism.  Take Boston for instance.  Very racist city but in love with David Ortiz, Pedro Martinez, etc.  And if a fight breaks out between a black guy wearing a Red Sox hat and a white guy wearing a Yankees hat the Yankees fan is gonna get dog piled on.

The banner is very true especially in Boston, but it's a truth that Boston really likes to pretend isn't true.  Hence the proposal to rename Yawkey way.  We're more concerned about how the rest of the world perceives us than the actual problem.


You know, just as a counterpoint to people saying Boston is very racist like crosses are burned on every corner and all minorities are chased down the street by Townies trying to spear them with American flags: yes, Boston has racial issues but there are great people here and we do get along. Did you not see the pictures of the counter protesters for that "Free Speech Rally"? I've had incidents involving my race but otherwise I'm just here on Boston and it's okay. For any minorities who might be put off from vacationing in Boston, I'd say you would enjoy yourselves here. There's much to see and do in the Boston/Cambridge/Somerville area.
 
2017-09-14 11:56:02 AM  

machoprogrammer: Frank N Stein: jso2897: It was built on land stolen

No that I think of it, the United States is the only country in the world that has displaced the population of peoples previously living on the land.

It's not even the only country in North America that has done that. Canada did it, too. Look up their schooling system for the indigenous folks, it's horrible.


Cortes was pretty strict about it.

Firesign Theatre had a great radio documentary.

...

"
INDIAN 1: The true white brother's coming home.  Remember what the Great Spirit said? If we did what we were supposed to do and lived according to the plan?  White brother would finish his work in the East and come back to us.
INDIAN 2: It'll be nice to have the family together again.
CONQUISTADOR 1: Buenos Dios, amigos!
INDIAN 1: Hello!  You must be the true white brother.
CONQUISTADOR 1: Sure!  You must be the Indians!
INDIAN 1: Yes.
INDIAN 2: Welcome home!
CONQUISTADOR 1: Welcome to New Spain!  This is your new father, Father Corona.
FATHER CORONA [with thick Irish brogue]:  [Mutters in Latin.] Down on your knees now!  Do you recognize what I'm holding over your heads, lads?
INDIAN 1: It's a cross: the symbol of the quartering of the universe into active and passive principles.
FATHER CORONA: God have mercy on their heathen souls.
CONQUISTADOR 1: What the Father means . . . is what is the cross made of?  Gold!  Have you got any?
INDIAN 1: No.
CONQUISTADOR 1: What about the seven cities of gold?  Phoenix, Tucson, Las Vegas?
INDIAN 2: Uh, this is gold.
CONQUISTADOR 1: What's that?
INDIAN 1: Corn.
CONQUISTADOR 2: Hey, corn!  Now we can make tortillas!
CONQUISTADOR 3: We've been waiting for this for hundreds of years."
 
2017-09-14 12:02:50 PM  

JAGChem82: That may be true, but Cobb early on was very much racist.


Got a cite?

He came from a long-line of abolitionists, and his favorite player after retirement was Willie Mays.
 
2017-09-14 12:04:06 PM  

Geotpf: machoprogrammer: Frank N Stein: jso2897: It was built on land stolen

No that I think of it, the United States is the only country in the world that has displaced the population of peoples previously living on the land.

It's not even the only country in North America that has done that. Canada did it, too. Look up their schooling system for the indigenous folks, it's horrible.

Australia also farked over their indigenous population extremely thoroughly.


They weren't even officially *people* until the 1960s. They were counted, when counted at all, as wildlife.
 
2017-09-14 12:07:08 PM  
I hate to be "that guy," but racism in sports in the United States isn't that bad, comparatively speaking.  Go to Europe for soccer games.  Black players have bananas thrown at them on the field.  Entire teams have walked off fields because of the racism coming from the fans.  Numerous players have celebrated goals with overt Nazi salutes and other Nazi rhetoric.  Teams have been forced to play in empty stadiums with only the press and league officials present as punishment for continuous racism in the stands.  In the grand scheme of things, our problems are small when viewed globally.
 
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