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(MSN)   Racism is as American as baseball   ( msn.com) divider line
    More: Fail, Boston Red Sox, Red Sox, Fenway Park, Red Sox owner, Fenway Park security, Adam Jones, Red Sox ownership, Orioles outfielder Adam  
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5038 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 Sep 2017 at 1:42 AM (12 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2017-09-14 04:07:55 AM  

Ooba Tooba: NotTooLittleRichard: parkthebus: Which is funny as racism is something the whole world shares, with America being one of the least offenders. If the sign said "Racism is as Japanese as baseball" it would have been more accurate.

Wanna try to explain that?  Does Japan have a bunch of statues of people who fought and died to keep others as property?

America didn't invent racism, but you damn well perfected it.

So. These are some words.


The US was the first in recent history to assert that skin colour made you less of a human, closer to cattle. Other cultures practiced slavery for a variety of reasons, but they never tried to justify it that way; you became a slave mostly through conquest or debt, but you were still a human being.

Not saying that other cultures versions of slavery were good, but the US certainly had one of the most farked up versions.
 
2017-09-14 04:24:15 AM  

adj_m: Ooba Tooba: NotTooLittleRichard: parkthebus: Which is funny as racism is something the whole world shares, with America being one of the least offenders. If the sign said "Racism is as Japanese as baseball" it would have been more accurate.

Wanna try to explain that?  Does Japan have a bunch of statues of people who fought and died to keep others as property?

America didn't invent racism, but you damn well perfected it.

So. These are some words.

The US was the first in recent history to assert that skin colour made you less of a human, closer to cattle. Other cultures practiced slavery for a variety of reasons, but they never tried to justify it that way; you became a slave mostly through conquest or debt, but you were still a human being.

Not saying that other cultures versions of slavery were good, but the US certainly had one of the most farked up versions.


You forgot to add "hundreds of years ago".
/you'll get over it
//eventually
 
2017-09-14 04:41:05 AM  

orangehat: ralphjr: Racism in baseball? That's disgusting! I bet Ty Cobb is rolling in his grave.

Ironically, Ty Cobb put a lot more black kids through college than the Red Sox ever did.


Ty Cobb was no saint but he had a massive hatchet job done on his reputation by an asshole author or two.

/"the Negro should be accepted and not grudgingly but wholeheartedly." - Cobb on racial integration of baseball
 
2017-09-14 04:43:43 AM  

Ooba Tooba: adj_m: Ooba Tooba: NotTooLittleRichard: parkthebus: Which is funny as racism is something the whole world shares, with America being one of the least offenders. If the sign said "Racism is as Japanese as baseball" it would have been more accurate.

Wanna try to explain that?  Does Japan have a bunch of statues of people who fought and died to keep others as property?

America didn't invent racism, but you damn well perfected it.

So. These are some words.

The US was the first in recent history to assert that skin colour made you less of a human, closer to cattle. Other cultures practiced slavery for a variety of reasons, but they never tried to justify it that way; you became a slave mostly through conquest or debt, but you were still a human being.

Not saying that other cultures versions of slavery were good, but the US certainly had one of the most farked up versions.

You forgot to add "hundreds of years ago".
/you'll get over it
//eventually


Yes that is when slavery happened, what's your point?

If by 'get over it' you mean I'll eventually be cool with racists like you seem to be, I doubt it.
 
2017-09-14 05:27:57 AM  

fusillade762: I can't tell if that banner was pro or anti racism...


I'm thinking it was anti, most pro racist don't use the word racist they hide it by saying they are not racist they are pro Western culture or some BS like that. So on top of being racist they are cowardly too since they can't stand up for what they believe. Like a bunch of those idiots in Charlottesville that got outed and cried about it.
 
2017-09-14 05:47:39 AM  

I Ate Shergar: ThatGuyFromTheInternet: To quibble a bit, racism was definitely not invented here.

Neither was baseball.


The short version
 
2017-09-14 05:50:34 AM  

ThatGuyFromTheInternet: To quibble a bit, racism was definitely not invented here.


No, just perfected.
 
2017-09-14 05:53:53 AM  
Agh, never mind.  Point taken.
 
2017-09-14 06:00:33 AM  

orangehat: randomjsa: Is that actual racism or the kind liberals make up when they don't have a good argument?

Which is not to say liberals never have a good argument. Those of them that do things like actually pay attention to what climate science says without devolving into hysterical shrieking when confronted with a moronic denialist for instance.

What exactly does this thread have to do with climate change?  Or for that matter,  what does it have to do with whatever you perceive what reality is?


It's called deflection.  It's what he does best.
 
2017-09-14 06:12:15 AM  

ox45tallboy: So yes, racism has to be programmed, but it can be de-programmed.


And for only $97, you can detoxify your whiteness.

https://compassionateactivism.leadpages.co/htw-program-jan-2017/?utm_​s​ource=EF-Site&utm_campaign=EF-HTW-OnDemand-homepage&utm_medium=Website​-Ads
 
2017-09-14 06:19:38 AM  

orangehat: I saw the headline and figured it was Boston... The curse is because their ownership wanted an all white team instead of a team that could win a World Series.
fark the Red Sox.


Pass up talent for skin color and invent a curse to cover it up.  Sounds about as Red Sox as it gets
 
2017-09-14 06:28:03 AM  

LordJiro: parkthebus: HedlessChickn: parkthebus: Which is funny as racism is something the whole world shares, with America being one of the least offenders. If the sign said "Racism is as Japanese as baseball" it would have been more accurate.

MMhm.

OK.

So, because we're less racist than other countries we should...?

What?

Continue working on making it less racist?

Stop working on it because it's good enough?


What exactly is your point?

I would suggest that we focus on ourselves as Americans who share the opportunity this country provides, and quit dividing ourselves by our racial genetics. More on the order of MLK's beliefs, you know.

Ideally, would be nice. Not gonna happen in the near future, 'cuz there's still a shiatton of work to do to actually make the races equal, and to make up for past abuses.


Neither MLK's dream nor reparations/"equity of outcomes" are ever going to happen in the US.  We will break apart within 50 years along ethnic/racial-geographic lines.  The West coast/Hawaii will be the first block to secede.
 
2017-09-14 06:34:16 AM  

Ooba Tooba: /you'll get over it
//eventually


You're far too optimistic.  This country will never get over it.  Our original sin is our fatal flaw.
 
2017-09-14 06:38:11 AM  

mongbiohazard: MikeyFuccon: Calling racism an American thing is pretty parochial itself. The more I see and hear of people, the more convinced I am that that's just how they are.

Call racism the eighth deadly sin, and at least as destructive as the other seven, vanity and covetousness especially. Condemn it when you see it. Just don't kid yourself that you'll ever see the back of it---or that you're immune to its temptations.

People are tribalistic by nature, absolutely. That's a general emergent property of who we are though. Racism is a specific concept which needs to be taught and passed along to the next generation when they're old enough to understand it.


Your two comments make no sense together. Yes, people are absolutely tribalistic. That's why racism is an ingrained thing we have to active teach out of our children. This isn't a novel concept; it's what scientific studies tell us, over and over.
 
2017-09-14 06:55:02 AM  
i.guim.co.ukView Full Size

American as apple pie.
American as baseball.
Racism is as American as baseball.
Baseball is racism.
Racism is apple pie.
Apple Pie is baseball.

I'm confused.
 
2017-09-14 07:09:48 AM  

MikeyFuccon: Calling racism an American thing is pretty parochial itself. The more I see and hear of people, the more convinced I am that that's just how they are.

Call racism the eighth deadly sin, and at least as destructive as the other seven, vanity and covetousness especially. Condemn it when you see it. Just don't kid yourself that you'll ever see the back of it---or that you're immune to its temptations.


well, the 7 deadly sins are religious in nature.  all religions are racist.
 
2017-09-14 07:11:01 AM  

Mike_LowELL: MikeyFuccon: The more I see and hear of people, the more convinced I am that that's just how they are.

Well, the thing is, I have a friend, he says that human beings are blank canvases, like, humans would die from a lack of oxygen if they didn't learn how to breathe from their parents.  But I have another friend who says that our genetics overpower any cultural predisposition, and therefore, Pepe the Frog was right to deny memes based on the color of their skin.

Makes me wonder what you guy's think.  I know your all capable of hereing each other out.


Humans are a blank slate.  The racism you see around you is entirely cultural.  It exists because people insist on having things their own way.  So large groups of people that are of the same race tend to be together and exclude those that are not.  Every race does this.  It's not just about skin color, either.  People want to hang out with people that are culturally similar to themselves.  This is the instinctive part of the equation.

In super large populations, like urban areas, there tends to be many more races, all around each other all the time, therefore the groups interact with each other.  We call this diversity.  In those places, racism is not so bad.  Tolerance and acceptance are more the norm.  It's not usually any worse than identifying people who are from WAY outside the current groups. (foreigners)

In places where the populations are very small, the groups are spread out and have less interaction.  And here is where the problems start.
In those places, the people interact so very little, that they know very little about each other.  All they get is the bullshiat, stereotypes, and xenophobia passed down from their parents and friends.

This is where the concept that "racism is learned" comes from.  And in my experience, it is exactly the case.

In any event, the one thing that trumps all of this is education.  This, unfortunately, is also lacking in the very rural areas.  If you want racism fixed, then fix education.
 
2017-09-14 07:20:19 AM  
Dear Antifa,
You are so very truly not helping.

Sincerely,
America
 
2017-09-14 07:22:16 AM  

HedlessChickn: parkthebus: Which is funny as racism is something the whole world shares, with America being one of the least offenders. If the sign said "Racism is as Japanese as baseball" it would have been more accurate.

MMhm.

OK.

So, because we're less racist than other countries we should...?

What?

Continue working on making it less racist?

Stop working on it because it's good enough?


What exactly is your point?


That America is supposedly "less racist" than other nations - a demonstrable falsehood - we are a nation whose VERY EXISTENCE was only made possible by racism, and that was literally built out of racism -- block by block.
It was built on land stolen from people who had been declared subhuman, mostly with labor extracted from people who had been declared subhuman.
Get real with yourselves - nobody is asking you to feel "guilty" or take responsibility for anything (Heaven forbid) - just accept the fact. America is racist right down to it's very bones - and if we don't like that, we need to change it, not deny it.
Those who deny it are those who do not wish to change it.
 
2017-09-14 07:23:13 AM  
I see the Red Sox are still stealing signs.
 
2017-09-14 07:23:58 AM  
Best of the Week - August 27, 2017 - Joe Rogan Experience
Youtube KicXFuwYhbc


/An interesting take on racism.
 
2017-09-14 07:42:13 AM  
I just want to say that both racism and baseball suck, and that I hope that my grandkids get to grow up in a world free of both of them.
 
2017-09-14 07:47:58 AM  

durbnpoisn: Humans are a blank slate.


No, they're definitely not. Now, you could argue that racism is a learned behavior, but humans are not a blank slate.
 
2017-09-14 08:15:26 AM  
What we need is a racism hall of fame.
 
2017-09-14 08:17:01 AM  

Mike_LowELL: MikeyFuccon: The more I see and hear of people, the more convinced I am that that's just how they are.

Well, the thing is, I have a friend, he says that human beings are blank canvases, like, humans would die from a lack of oxygen if they didn't learn how to breathe from their parents.  But I have another friend who says that our genetics overpower any cultural predisposition, and therefore, Pepe the Frog was right to deny memes based on the color of their skin.

Makes me wonder what you guy's think.  I know your all capable of hereing each other out.

img.fark.netView Full Size

 
2017-09-14 08:18:37 AM  
Many believe the Creator has given humans the capacity to do great things, to love with extraordinary power, to live a life caring for our fellow miracles.

Few take Him up on it.
 
2017-09-14 08:19:28 AM  
BFD.  It's the Sox.  Over glorified team.  Worst fans.  F--k em.
 
2017-09-14 08:19:55 AM  

adj_m: The US was the first in recent history to assert that skin colour made you less of a human, closer to cattle.


This right here is evidence of not studying history means it gets repeated.  The US weren't the first, nor the last place it happened.  WWII wasn't even the first time a country tried to exterminate all Jews.  Actually, previous attempts to kill them all is how most ended up in Poland and Germany.  In case you didn't know, Germany wasn't the last.  Poland tried killing Jews returning after the war, which led to why most ended up in Israel or the US.  Israel was formed because the Allies didn't want all of them.  WWII was history repeating, and so is all the other racist garbage going on now.
 
2017-09-14 08:20:57 AM  
Some background - an 8 year old black kid was nearly lynched by some teenagers in New Hampshire recently. They hanged him, and he damn near died. New Hampshire. And at the memorial/protest, pickup trucks flying the confederate stars and bars showed up to roll coal. In New Hampshire. The Red Sox are New England's team, and that means New Hampshire. In light of that, I don't have an issue with the protest banner.
 
2017-09-14 08:23:19 AM  

Pop and Miracle Whip: [iFrame https://www.youtube.com/embed/KicXFuwYhbc?start=376 - 480x270]

/An interesting take on racism.


that was really interesting.
 
2017-09-14 08:23:21 AM  

Mayhem_2006: Well, its kinda true.

The entire country was founded on the principal of "only white people are important, so lets just take this land from these native folk".

Then it was built up from that foundation with the principal "only white people are important, so lets enslave these people to work in our fields and exploit these other people to build our railways."

The only mitigating factor is to remember is that the rest of the world was just as bad.  However, the rest of the world civilised world seems to have moved on rather more than the less educated parts of the US.


Eh not so much unfortunately.
 
2017-09-14 08:26:13 AM  
Racism is as American as baseball.

Like how baseball integrated black people into the profession, realized that black people had skills that equaled if not exceeded those of white baseball players. Caused those who were first against it, to not only come to terms with it, but accept it and eventually welcome minorities as equals.

The baseball that was once all white and as time went on has now become a melting pot of nationalities and skin color

The baseball that despite the anger and hate directed at the league and black players stood their ground and proved themselves,  persevered through the hate and established themselves, making it that black players today being baseball players a normal thing.

That baseball. Ya, i can see the analogy you are going for.
 
2017-09-14 08:27:37 AM  

SteveGrogansGoat: Some background - an 8 year old black kid was nearly lynched by some teenagers in New Hampshire recently. They hanged him, and he damn near died. New Hampshire. And at the memorial/protest, pickup trucks flying the confederate stars and bars showed up to roll coal. In New Hampshire. The Red Sox are New England's team, and that means New Hampshire. In light of that, I don't have an issue with the protest banner.


I'm sure there are good parts of New Hampshire but having recently hiked the AT the through the state it's like as soon as you cross the border from Vermont into NH you start running into rednecks and meth heads. I honestly couldn't tell that I was in the northeast.
 
2017-09-14 08:31:32 AM  
sigh

And I was excited we gained a game in the division as well as the wildcard.

Whether we like it or not this is gonna get worse. I'm sorry.
 
2017-09-14 08:32:40 AM  

Monkeyfark Ridiculous: orangehat: ralphjr: Racism in baseball? That's disgusting! I bet Ty Cobb is rolling in his grave.

Ironically, Ty Cobb put a lot more black kids through college than the Red Sox ever did.

Ty Cobb was no saint but he had a massive hatchet job done on his reputation by an asshole author or two.

/"the Negro should be accepted and not grudgingly but wholeheartedly." - Cobb on racial integration of baseball


??? I really have to look this up.  Cobb is like the anti-hero of baseball lore.  Granted I'm more just a casual baseball fan but Cobb is the villain - the talented guy but opposite Babe Ruth and Honus Wagner.  When I think of Cobb  I think of Tommy Lee Jones' depiction of the guy.
 
2017-09-14 08:37:51 AM  

orangehat: ralphjr: Racism in baseball? That's disgusting! I bet Ty Cobb is rolling in his grave.

Ironically, Ty Cobb put a lot more black kids through college than the Red Sox ever did.


https://www.redsoxfoundation.org/redsoxscholars

Let's not let facts get in the way of the narrative.
 
2017-09-14 08:37:52 AM  

hobbes0022: What good about that headline is "American", "racism", and "baseball" can be put in any order and still work.


racism is as baseball as American?
 
2017-09-14 08:37:58 AM  

hobbes0022: What good about that headline is "American", "racism", and "baseball" can be put in any order and still work.


American is as baseball as racism?
 
2017-09-14 08:39:12 AM  

SirEattonHogg: Monkeyfark Ridiculous: orangehat: ralphjr: Racism in baseball? That's disgusting! I bet Ty Cobb is rolling in his grave.

Ironically, Ty Cobb put a lot more black kids through college than the Red Sox ever did.

Ty Cobb was no saint but he had a massive hatchet job done on his reputation by an asshole author or two.

/"the Negro should be accepted and not grudgingly but wholeheartedly." - Cobb on racial integration of baseball

??? I really have to look this up.  Cobb is like the anti-hero of baseball lore.  Granted I'm more just a casual baseball fan but Cobb is the villain - the talented guy but opposite Babe Ruth and Honus Wagner.  When I think of Cobb  I think of Tommy Lee Jones' depiction of the guy.


Ty Cobb was a lot of bad things, but ironically, he was actually very progressive with regards with race for his day.
 
2017-09-14 08:41:33 AM  

machoprogrammer: hobbes0022: What good about that headline is "American", "racism", and "baseball" can be put in any order and still work.

racism is as baseball as American?


Racism is as baseball as America (is baseball)
 
2017-09-14 08:41:50 AM  
I think this all stems from the baseballs being white.
 
2017-09-14 08:46:07 AM  

ox45tallboy: Harry_Seldon: Thanks Obama!

[ionenewpittsburghcourier.files.wordpress.com image 680x454]

//what a beautiful image

One of my favorites on this subject was this one:

[drakeindcdotcom.files.wordpress.com image 850x566]

And yes, for those who don't know, the woman Obama is talking to is Ruby Bridges, the little girl from the painting.


Is this where Trump hung that big printout of the electoral map?
 
2017-09-14 08:52:07 AM  

Mayhem_2006: Unikitty: Mayhem_2006: Well, its kinda true.

The entire country was founded on the principal of "only white people are important, so lets just take this land from these native folk".

Then it was built up from that foundation with the principal "only white people are important, so lets enslave these people to work in our fields and exploit these other people to build our railways."

The only mitigating factor is to remember is that the rest of the world was just as bad.  However, the rest of the world civilised world seems to have moved on rather more than the less educated parts of the US.

Or, you're a complete moron. There's that.

Which part do you consider untrue?


That the entire country was founded on white people being more important than anyone else. That might have been the end result but it was not the initial catalyst for our country.
 
2017-09-14 09:01:25 AM  

Mayhem_2006: The entire country was founded on the principal of "only white people are important, so lets just take this land from these native folk".


If they'd have bothered to have proper deeds to the land and teepees filed at the county courthouse, they'd
still have the land.
 
2017-09-14 09:08:21 AM  

suicidejocky: Racism is as American as baseball.

Like how baseball integrated black people into the profession, realized that black people had skills that equaled if not exceeded those of white baseball players. Caused those who were first against it, to not only come to terms with it, but accept it and eventually welcome minorities as equals.

The baseball that was once all white and as time went on has now become a melting pot of nationalities and skin color

The baseball that despite the anger and hate directed at the league and black players stood their ground and proved themselves,  persevered through the hate and established themselves, making it that black players today being baseball players a normal thing.

That baseball. Ya, i can see the analogy you are going for.


Baseball that has exploited the hell out of Latin America for decades? That has laughable numbers of minorities in management and front offices? That has had dwindling numbers of African-American players for decades?

Oh but Jackie Robinson yay baseball is a shining beacon of equality
 
2017-09-14 09:12:17 AM  
I can't figure out how to react until I learn whether that banner was displayed by the KKK or BLM.
 
2017-09-14 09:16:27 AM  

jso2897: That America is supposedly "less racist" than other nations - a demonstrable falsehood - we are a nation whose VERY EXISTENCE was only made possible by racism, and that was literally built out of racism -- block by block.
It was built on land stolen from people who had been declared subhuman, mostly with labor extracted from people who had been declared subhuman.


Someone needs to learn a bit of world history and stop being so parochial. Perhaps you could consider traveling a bit too. America is not the first place what you described has happened. The library is full of books, maybe you could read a few?
 
2017-09-14 09:17:12 AM  

ElwoodCuse: Baseball that has exploited the hell out of Latin America for decades?


Yeah, who can forget those times that MLB staged coups in South American countries so they can forcibly take children to raise them as ballplayers to be exported to America and clearcut rain forests to grow baseball bat lumber.
 
2017-09-14 09:17:36 AM  

ox45tallboy: Human beings are tribal by nature


This

How specific that tribalism gets is generally dependent on the level of perceived threat.  Should aliens invade earth, racism would disappear real quick.

But even sports rivalries are an example of tribalism.  Take Boston for instance.  Very racist city but in love with David Ortiz, Pedro Martinez, etc.  And if a fight breaks out between a black guy wearing a Red Sox hat and a white guy wearing a Yankees hat the Yankees fan is gonna get dog piled on.

The banner is very true especially in Boston, but it's a truth that Boston really likes to pretend isn't true.  Hence the proposal to rename Yawkey way.  We're more concerned about how the rest of the world perceives us than the actual problem.
 
2017-09-14 09:17:44 AM  

SirEattonHogg: Monkeyfark Ridiculous: orangehat: ralphjr: Racism in baseball? That's disgusting! I bet Ty Cobb is rolling in his grave.

Ironically, Ty Cobb put a lot more black kids through college than the Red Sox ever did.

Ty Cobb was no saint but he had a massive hatchet job done on his reputation by an asshole author or two.

/"the Negro should be accepted and not grudgingly but wholeheartedly." - Cobb on racial integration of baseball

??? I really have to look this up.  Cobb is like the anti-hero of baseball lore.  Granted I'm more just a casual baseball fan but Cobb is the villain - the talented guy but opposite Babe Ruth and Honus Wagner.  When I think of Cobb  I think of Tommy Lee Jones' depiction of the guy.


That movie is based on the work of Al Stump, who was chiefly responsible for the aforementioned hatchet job. The monstrous-but-talented Cobb of legend is an engaging villain, but much of the underpinning falls apart under scrutiny. http://m.mlb.com/news/article/178601094/ty-cobb-histo​ry-built-on-inacc​uracies/
 
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