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(KSL Salt Lake City)   Salt Lake mayor: "At least 6 separate policies were broken in arrest of nurse who wasn't breaking any"   ( ksl.com) divider line
    More: Followup, salt lake city, Police, lake city police, Constable, Law enforcement agency  
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10428 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 Sep 2017 at 12:49 AM (13 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

2017-09-14 12:27:40 AM  
57 votes:
ya know, if I walked into work one day and just ignored 5 or 6 major policies and procedures in place, I'd be out on my ass inside of oh...3 days or so.  But I guess even with massive amounts of evidence AND video footage AND the cop himself admitting to his improper actions they STILL can't fire a cop right away.

so again:

Me: no gun, computer programmer, average looking middle class white guy.  time to get fired: 3 days.
cop: legally carries a gun AND is permitted to use it more or less at will.  violated multiple dept policies and may have broken a couple laws.  time to get fired: 30 days and counting.
2017-09-13 10:06:19 PM  
55 votes:
FTFA

"Those policies include conduct unbecoming by a police employee, courtesy in public contacts, policy regarding arrests, misdemeanor citations, situations requiring a report, law enforcement code of ethics and city policy regarding standards of conduct for employees "

Really. You illegally detain someone and THAT'S what you complain about?
2017-09-13 10:20:53 PM  
49 votes:
And so why haven't the 2 officers been fired?
2017-09-14 12:54:10 AM  
46 votes:

Weaver95: ya know, if I walked into work one day and just ignored 5 or 6 major policies and procedures in place, I'd be out on my ass inside of oh...3 days or so.  But I guess even with massive amounts of evidence AND video footage AND the cop himself admitting to his improper actions they STILL can't fire a cop right away.

so again:

Me: no gun, computer programmer, average looking middle class white guy.  time to get fired: 3 days.
cop: legally carries a gun AND is permitted to use it more or less at will.  violated multiple dept policies and may have broken a couple laws.  time to get fired: 30 days and counting.


You: no union.
Police: union.
2017-09-13 11:01:01 PM  
43 votes:
Your being arrest for "obstructing justice"

... but what you are requesting is not justice, its actually illegal.  A police officer demanding I do something illegal does not make the act un-illegal.
2017-09-14 01:00:10 AM  
32 votes:

mcmnky: You: no union.
Police: union


me: state worker.  Yes, I have a union.  No, they will not protect me if I clearly violate procedure.  I've seen state workers get fired inside of 72 hours for violating security procedures and guide lines.  do NOT dick with those rules, they WILL fire us if we do.  sexual harassment and/or religious discrimination are also two other things that result in more or less instant firings.
2017-09-14 01:17:35 AM  
30 votes:
FTFA, "We have said all along that we believe that to regain public trust, that the police department needs to police itself."

It's too farking late for that.  Police departments across the country have made it crystal clear that they can not be trusted to police themselves.
2017-09-14 12:51:32 AM  
27 votes:
Those who enforce the rules determine what is a rule or not.

Although I prefer Stalin's take on this:
The people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the votes decide everything.
2017-09-14 02:20:40 AM  
24 votes:

Boo_Guy: My understand is a police chase went bad, the guy they wanted blood from was slammed into by a cop.

They were fishing for a way to blame someone else.


Close... Police chase went bad, but they guy they wanted blood from was an off duty cop from another state, working his weekend trucking job. The chasee drove into him in oncoming traffic.

If the police chase was against policy, then the state may be on the hook for all of the injured guy's medical expenses, lost income, pain and suffering, etc. But, Utah's a comparative negligence state - if they could find drugs or alcohol in his system and say that he was at least partly at fault, they could potentially wipe all of that out.

So, yeah, they were looking for a way to blame the victim. And when the nurse tried to instruct the cop about the law, he saw someone being uppity and decided to live out his violent power fantasies. He probably had some great sex that night, thinking about it. I wonder if his wife consented.
2017-09-14 12:56:06 AM  
20 votes:

twistedknickers: And so why haven't the 2 officers been fired?


Because Mayor's aren't Burgermeisters. They can't just fire cops like it's an episode of Starsky and Hutch.

The cops should be fired (and charged, frankly) but they are still entitled to the same due process that they tried to deny for that Nurse.
2017-09-14 12:56:17 AM  
19 votes:
Let's remember the threat to harass that hospital by directing all the transients to them. That one goes well beyond these silly points about being courteous. It's like they are tossing up some strawmen to diffuse the rage.
2017-09-14 12:59:59 AM  
18 votes:
So that's one full week of paid vacation per violation before going back to work as if nothing happened?

media.istockphoto.comView Full Size


Being a cop must be a great job.  The more you screw up the more you're rewarded.
2017-09-14 02:15:56 AM  
17 votes:

Carousel Beast: You got it. It's obviously the fault of Republicans that police unions rule everything, even in the majority of cities that Democrats have had iron control over for the past half century. It must be those evil Republicans.

/eyeroll


Have you ever heard the GOP talk about police unions having too much power?  Notice how no matter what a police officer does their union representative is first in front of the media protecting them?  How many times have we heard the GOP complain about how hard it is to fire teachers, yet the same thing happens with police unions and there's nary a peep.

So yeah, it's the GOP and their "Blue Lives Matter / Thin Blue Line" BS that protects these cops where anyone else would have been fired for cause.
2017-09-14 01:28:02 AM  
16 votes:

Weaver95: mcmnky: You: no union.
Police: union

me: state worker.  Yes, I have a union.  No, they will not protect me if I clearly violate procedure.  I've seen state workers get fired inside of 72 hours for violating security procedures and guide lines.  do NOT dick with those rules, they WILL fire us if we do.  sexual harassment and/or religious discrimination are also two other things that result in more or less instant firings.


Well, yes but you have to remember that your union is a Democrat ploy in order to garner more power and support "Big Government".  The GOP has done everything in their power to neuter it.  Police unions that actively support the GOP are precious snowflakes that must be protected because they can do no wrong.
2017-09-14 02:01:38 AM  
15 votes:

JohnnyApocalypse: Birnone: Just from a non legal, regular person standpoint, the part of this whole thing that really puzzles me is 'arresting a nurse' part. Doctors, nurses, everyone who works in a hospital really, these are people who if I was a cop they would have to do something exceptional for me to want to arrest them. One day I may be coming into this hospital in bad condition, I want them to either treat me like anyone else or maybe even like me. The last thing I'd want is there to be bad blood between us.

Actually, the part that REALLY gets me is why were they so intent on getting this guy's blood drawn, and enough to arrest a nurse for not doing so, which they had to know was illegal to do? Is it just a case of "drunk on my badge"? Was there something else going on? This is mystifying. I just can't think of any good reason this happened.


My understand is a police chase went bad, the guy they wanted blood from was slammed into by a cop.

They were fishing for a way to blame someone else.
2017-09-14 01:24:26 AM  
14 votes:

anustart: twistedknickers: And so why haven't the 2 officers been fired?

Because Mayor's aren't Burgermeisters. They can't just fire cops like it's an episode of Starsky and Hutch.

The cops should be fired (and charged, frankly) but they are still entitled to the same due process that they tried to deny for that Nurse.


Just because theyre unionized.

Cool story bro time.

I was a cop for 10 years. We had a dumb as hell Chief of Police who ran the dept like the good ole boys club. Finally city council got sick of it and fired him on the spot since we werent unionized. He walked out of the city hall meeting room and filed paperwork to run for mayor, which he then won. He then ran the police dept from city hall.

Small town politics are the worst.
2017-09-14 12:52:56 AM  
12 votes:
After the 20-day period, the findings of the investigations will be turned over to Salt Lake City Police Chief Mike Brown, who will round file them.
2017-09-14 01:52:18 AM  
9 votes:

Bonzo_1116: I think you need to put yourself in this guy's shoes.

Specifically his shiny power tripping boots.


You're right. It's just that I would know that no hospital has extra staff just hanging around in case their needed. If I, as a cop, drag a nurse out of there for any reason, now they are understaffed. Now I have farked up a whole shiatload of things for everyone. The doctors, nurses, patients...everyone is going to be impacted. There's no way I'm pulling one of those people out of there unless they are doing something so bad the patients are better off short a nurse.
2017-09-14 01:42:56 AM  
9 votes:

mcmnky: Weaver95: ya know, if I walked into work one day and just ignored 5 or 6 major policies and procedures in place, I'd be out on my ass inside of oh...3 days or so.  But I guess even with massive amounts of evidence AND video footage AND the cop himself admitting to his improper actions they STILL can't fire a cop right away.

so again:

Me: no gun, computer programmer, average looking middle class white guy.  time to get fired: 3 days.
cop: legally carries a gun AND is permitted to use it more or less at will.  violated multiple dept policies and may have broken a couple laws.  time to get fired: 30 days and counting.

You: no union.
Police: union.


Yeah, no. I work as a union staffer. And if I pulled anything close to this crap, my own union rep would rightly call me a dumbass. The union would file a grievance, sure, because they pretty much have to ("duty of fair representation"). So yeah I probably get a paid suspension while this goes through the system for a bit, then the union tells me they're not taking it to arbitration because I'm an idiot and they're under no obligation to blow a perfectly good litigation budget on behalf of my stupid ass.

Copes get special rules, and not just because they're union.
2017-09-14 01:33:07 AM  
9 votes:
Just from a non legal, regular person standpoint, the part of this whole thing that really puzzles me is 'arresting a nurse' part. Doctors, nurses, everyone who works in a hospital really, these are people who if I was a cop they would have to do something exceptional for me to want to arrest them. One day I may be coming into this hospital in bad condition, I want them to either treat me like anyone else or maybe even like me. The last thing I'd want is there to be bad blood between us.
2017-09-14 01:00:02 AM  
9 votes:

wademh: Let's remember the threat to harass that hospital by directing all the transients to them. That one goes well beyond these silly points about being courteous. It's like they are tossing up some strawmen to diffuse the rage.


That got him fired from the EMS job where he could make good on that threat. It didn't have much to do with his job at the PD, which he should also be fired from for illegally detaining the nurse and being a douchebag in general.
2017-09-14 03:18:46 AM  
8 votes:

erewhon: Birnone: Just from a non legal, regular person standpoint, the part of this whole thing that really puzzles me is 'arresting a nurse' part. Doctors, nurses, everyone who works in a hospital really, these are people who if I was a cop they would have to do something exceptional for me to want to arrest them. One day I may be coming into this hospital in bad condition, I want them to either treat me like anyone else or maybe even like me. The last thing I'd want is there to be bad blood between us.

The cops are betting their buddies' lives that medical personnel are each and everyone,more professional than they are, all the time. Because it's not like the staff is going to be looking out for a particular douchebag cop, they're just going to see a cop. The douchebaggery a cop dishes out today might be returned tomorrow, but it's going to be the next cop who is sick or injured who pays the price.


There's a difference in motivation and vocation between the two. I can believe and have seen police behaving in a vindictive manner. However, I have never seen any of my fellow health care folks act out in that manner no matter how much they may have wanted to internally.

YMMV
2017-09-14 03:11:24 AM  
8 votes:

erewhon: Theaetetus:
 They actually use the term "contempt of cop", which appears to indicate that they thought this was violent retaliation from a psychopath.

But, he's a GOOD cop. We've NEVER seen him act like this.


another aspect here is that this cop probably abused the rights of others long before he got caught.  so how many convictions are now in danger of review and possible retrials because this cop got caught being a power mad petty tyrant with a badge?
2017-09-13 11:16:47 PM  
8 votes:

twistedknickers: And so why haven't the 2 officers been fired?


TFA: "Biskupski said that Wednesday's announcement won't be the final step in the process. Both officers have 20 days to respond to the allegations, she said."
2017-09-14 06:26:31 AM  
7 votes:

wyltoknow: mcmnky: Weaver95: ya know, if I walked into work one day and just ignored 5 or 6 major policies and procedures in place, I'd be out on my ass inside of oh...3 days or so.  But I guess even with massive amounts of evidence AND video footage AND the cop himself admitting to his improper actions they STILL can't fire a cop right away.

so again:

Me: no gun, computer programmer, average looking middle class white guy.  time to get fired: 3 days.
cop: legally carries a gun AND is permitted to use it more or less at will.  violated multiple dept policies and may have broken a couple laws.  time to get fired: 30 days and counting.

You: no union.
Police: union.

I'm in a large national union annnnnd if I walked into work today, ignored several major policies and possibly broke some laws in the process, it wouldn't even take 3 days to have me on my ass. I'd be out the door and listed as unhireable faster than you can say "grievance report".


But police are delicate, easily startled, Low IQ, White Supremacist snowflakes who need to be protected from all consequences or else we'll all turn into godless, immigrant tolerating commie commies!
2017-09-14 02:16:35 AM  
7 votes:

Bonzo_1116: Birnone: Just from a non legal, regular person standpoint, the part of this whole thing that really puzzles me is 'arresting a nurse' part. Doctors, nurses, everyone who works in a hospital really, these are people who if I was a cop they would have to do something exceptional for me to want to arrest them. One day I may be coming into this hospital in bad condition, I want them to either treat me like anyone else or maybe even like me. The last thing I'd want is there to be bad blood between us.

I think you need to put yourself in this guy's shoes.

Specifically his shiny power tripping boots.


Yeah. There's actually a bit in the report where the board noted that all of this occurred after the nurse asked for his business card, so she could presumably file a complaint. They actually use the term "contempt of cop", which appears to indicate that they thought this was violent retaliation from a psychopath.
2017-09-14 01:49:34 AM  
7 votes:

Birnone: Just from a non legal, regular person standpoint, the part of this whole thing that really puzzles me is 'arresting a nurse' part. Doctors, nurses, everyone who works in a hospital really, these are people who if I was a cop they would have to do something exceptional for me to want to arrest them. One day I may be coming into this hospital in bad condition, I want them to either treat me like anyone else or maybe even like me. The last thing I'd want is there to be bad blood between us.


Actually, the part that REALLY gets me is why were they so intent on getting this guy's blood drawn, and enough to arrest a nurse for not doing so, which they had to know was illegal to do? Is it just a case of "drunk on my badge"? Was there something else going on? This is mystifying. I just can't think of any good reason this happened.
2017-09-14 01:46:25 AM  
7 votes:
I actually came in here to comment on why the hell policies are being discussed rather than criminal charges, starting with false arrest and moving on to whatever flavor of abuse of power laws they have there.
2017-09-14 01:43:19 AM  
7 votes:

Fiona Nine Tails: Weaver95: mcmnky: You: no union.
Police: union

me: state worker.  Yes, I have a union.  No, they will not protect me if I clearly violate procedure.  I've seen state workers get fired inside of 72 hours for violating security procedures and guide lines.  do NOT dick with those rules, they WILL fire us if we do.  sexual harassment and/or religious discrimination are also two other things that result in more or less instant firings.

Well, yes but you have to remember that your union is a Democrat ploy in order to garner more power and support "Big Government".  The GOP has done everything in their power to neuter it.  Police unions that actively support the GOP are precious snowflakes that must be protected because they can do no wrong.


You got it. It's obviously the fault of Republicans that police unions rule everything, even in the majority of cities that Democrats have had iron control over for the past half century. It must be those evil Republicans.

/eyeroll
2017-09-14 01:39:04 AM  
7 votes:

Birnone: Just from a non legal, regular person standpoint, the part of this whole thing that really puzzles me is 'arresting a nurse' part. Doctors, nurses, everyone who works in a hospital really, these are people who if I was a cop they would have to do something exceptional for me to want to arrest them. One day I may be coming into this hospital in bad condition, I want them to either treat me like anyone else or maybe even like me. The last thing I'd want is there to be bad blood between us.


I think you need to put yourself in this guy's shoes.

Specifically his shiny power tripping boots.
2017-09-14 06:26:38 AM  
6 votes:

scotzrewl: Fiona Nine Tails: scotzrewl: Well, according to this site, at the Federal Level, more Democrats receive more money from the FOP.

Link

And that has what to do with the Salt Lake Police Association precisely?  Oh, right.  Absolutely nothing.

So you lop off your claim, and then move the goalposts?

Nice.

You can be safely ignored.


You picked a single chapter of the Fraternal Order of Police that donated to Democrats in a completely different state than the one we're talking about and I'm moving the goalposts?  If I pull up the NYPD's Policemen's Benevolent Association I'd probably see a lean toward Democrats too.  That doesn't change the fact that police unions as a whole lean predominately Republican.

Jackass.
2017-09-14 03:19:47 AM  
6 votes:

erewhon: It certainly didn't seem to be the first rodeo for either cop, did it?


*anyone* arrested by this cop OR his boss could potentially be looking at a retrial now, all because this dick hole couldn't follow procedure and admit the nurse was right.  nope - he just HAD to smack everyone in the room with his dick.

idiot.  as if the country didn't already believe cops were all a bunch of angry, impotent, out of control rage zombies.  yeesh.
2017-09-14 08:00:50 AM  
5 votes:
Biskupski said Wubbels' arrest has divided the community.

Why divided?  Are there some that side with the detective?
2017-09-14 03:33:22 AM  
5 votes:
BafflerMeal
There's a difference in motivation and vocation between the two. I can believe and have seen police behaving in a vindictive manner. However, I have never seen any of my fellow health care folks act out in that manner no matter how much they may have wanted to internally.

YMMV


But if you worked in an ER where this sort of thing went on with your charge or docs, tell me you're going to be as enthusiastic as you would be with, say, a firefighter.

I've got family that works trauma ER and in some ERs it's gotten to the point they have had to post "What LEOs cannot do in the ER" including gems like "order the ER doc to medically clear your prisoner" or "You cannot lawfully order medical treatment for your family or fellow officers"
2017-09-14 02:12:18 AM  
5 votes:
So give the nurse a night stick and let her break six separate bones of each officer. Then fire both of them.
2017-09-14 01:45:26 AM  
5 votes:
I assume when they said 'policies' they meant to say 'laws and basic standards of human decency'?
2017-09-14 05:56:24 AM  
4 votes:
Cops are fascist pigs, and they suck.  That is all.
2017-09-14 03:36:09 AM  
4 votes:
Policies?  Citizen Review Boards?  Disciplinary measures?

How about LAWS.  Criminal investigations.  Criminal charges.  Trial.

These had better be parallel processes and not the former in lieu of the latter.
2017-09-14 03:15:01 AM  
4 votes:
Weaver95:
another aspect here is that this cop probably abused the rights of others long before he got caught.  so how many convictions are now in danger of review and possible retrials because this cop got caught being a power mad petty tyrant with a badge?

It certainly didn't seem to be the first rodeo for either cop, did it?
2017-09-14 12:55:22 AM  
4 votes:
"Salt Lake City police officers are some of the best law enforcement officers in the country."

So they're average is what you're saying.
2017-09-14 06:49:51 AM  
3 votes:

twistedknickers: And so why haven't the 2 officers been fired?


Because in most departments/agencies, it takes a lot of paperwork and hearings to fire an Officer once they are off their probationary period.

It prevents spurious firings due to unfounded complaints, and keeps the Police Departments from being stacked entirely with people who are favored by the current leadership (i.e. new Chief takes over and starts firing people he doesn't like so he can hire all his buddies).

I've been in Law Enforcement for 6 years, and I've seen bad cops fired. . .but it does take time for the hearings and investigations, to make sure it's done by-the-book.  Even in blatant cases, they go through the motions to prevent a wrongful termination lawsuit.
2017-09-14 06:42:14 AM  
3 votes:
Yeah, we will bend on the constitution, butbutbut pol8cy, never.

Do we really need exclusive policy citations to arrest a pig who violated the bill of rights?
2017-09-14 06:17:07 AM  
3 votes:

mcmnky: Weaver95: ya know, if I walked into work one day and just ignored 5 or 6 major policies and procedures in place, I'd be out on my ass inside of oh...3 days or so.  But I guess even with massive amounts of evidence AND video footage AND the cop himself admitting to his improper actions they STILL can't fire a cop right away.

so again:

Me: no gun, computer programmer, average looking middle class white guy.  time to get fired: 3 days.
cop: legally carries a gun AND is permitted to use it more or less at will.  violated multiple dept policies and may have broken a couple laws.  time to get fired: 30 days and counting.

You: no union.
Police: union.


I'm in a large national union annnnnd if I walked into work today, ignored several major policies and possibly broke some laws in the process, it wouldn't even take 3 days to have me on my ass. I'd be out the door and listed as unhireable faster than you can say "grievance report".
2017-09-14 04:15:38 AM  
3 votes:

Fiona Nine Tails: scotzrewl: Well, according to this site, at the Federal Level, more Democrats receive more money from the FOP.

Link

And that has what to do with the Salt Lake Police Association precisely?  Oh, right.  Absolutely nothing.


So you lop off your claim, and then move the goalposts?

Nice.

You can be safely ignored.
2017-09-14 03:12:26 AM  
3 votes:

Birnone: Just from a non legal, regular person standpoint, the part of this whole thing that really puzzles me is 'arresting a nurse' part. Doctors, nurses, everyone who works in a hospital really, these are people who if I was a cop they would have to do something exceptional for me to want to arrest them. One day I may be coming into this hospital in bad condition, I want them to either treat me like anyone else or maybe even like me. The last thing I'd want is there to be bad blood between us.


The cops are betting their buddies' lives that medical personnel are each and everyone,more professional than they are, all the time. Because it's not like the staff is going to be looking out for a particular douchebag cop, they're just going to see a cop. The douchebaggery a cop dishes out today might be returned tomorrow, but it's going to be the next cop who is sick or injured who pays the price.
2017-09-14 02:42:56 AM  
3 votes:

scotzrewl: Well, according to this site, at the Federal Level, more Democrats receive more money from the FOP.

Link


And that has what to do with the Salt Lake Police Association precisely?  Oh, right.  Absolutely nothing.
2017-09-14 02:17:46 AM  
3 votes:

Spicy_McHaggus: anustart: twistedknickers: And so why haven't the 2 officers been fired?

Because Mayor's aren't Burgermeisters. They can't just fire cops like it's an episode of Starsky and Hutch.

The cops should be fired (and charged, frankly) but they are still entitled to the same due process that they tried to deny for that Nurse.

Just because theyre unionized.

Cool story bro time.

I was a cop for 10 years. We had a dumb as hell Chief of Police who ran the dept like the good ole boys club. Finally city council got sick of it and fired him on the spot since we werent unionized. He walked out of the city hall meeting room and filed paperwork to run for mayor, which he then won. He then ran the police dept from city hall.

Small town politics are the worst.


Don't know if I should slow clap or cry. That's disgusting.

img.fark.netView Full Size

Is this the chap?
2017-09-14 02:00:52 AM  
3 votes:

anustart: twistedknickers: And so why haven't the 2 officers been fired?

Because Mayor's aren't Burgermeisters. They can't just fire cops like it's an episode of Starsky and Hutch.

The cops should be fired (and charged, frankly) but they are still entitled to the same due process that they tried to deny for that Nurse.


They arrested her in minutes but they will have months of paid leave to wait to find out that nothing will happen to them.
2017-09-14 01:29:39 AM  
3 votes:

twistedknickers: And so why haven't the 2 officers been fired?


Ironically, they get due process, the very thing she was denied.
2017-09-14 12:58:12 AM  
3 votes:
Welp, the police state tested that line, and the line to not cross is roughing up other public service workers.
2017-09-14 08:39:36 AM  
2 votes:

max_pooper: fireclown: He's a grandstanding putz.  That officer called his superiors to verify what he should do.  What we saw there wasn't a violation of policy, it WAS policy.

The officer and the supervisor were both wrong. Unfortunately that's not really surprising and the Supreme Court has ruled that police can not be held accountable for being ignorant of the law.


Ah yes, the "Reasonably Stupid Cop" rule
2017-09-14 08:08:56 AM  
2 votes:
He's a grandstanding putz.  That officer called his superiors to verify what he should do.  What we saw there wasn't a violation of policy, it WAS policy.
2017-09-14 07:59:30 AM  
2 votes:
In other news, the Department of Justice isn't going to pursue any further charges against the police officers who treated Freddies Gray so roughly while in custody that his spine was 80% severed at his neck, leading to his death.

Which is reasonable because hell, it's not like they lightly roughed up and briefly detained a white blonde woman, right?
2017-09-14 07:03:04 AM  
2 votes:
So, no criminal charges for assault or kidnapping. This is my shocked face.
2017-09-14 04:02:15 AM  
2 votes:
There'd be no need to call for the cops' firing if he was capable of doing the honorable thing and stepping down.  Deep down, he probably thinks that he's right and everyone else is just a bunch of pansies.
2017-09-14 02:59:43 AM  
2 votes:

Carousel Beast: I actually came in here to comment on why the hell policies are being discussed rather than criminal charges, starting with false arrest and moving on to whatever flavor of abuse of power laws they have there.


I came across a statement by their IA addressing this, since it was the first thing I thought as well. Their spokesman said that criminal investigations were being independently pursued by several different agencies and that it was therefore inappropriate for them to comment other than the policy violations. That's probably how it should be but it sure seems like IAs love to get in front of the press and proclaim nothing was found so the DA can nol prosse it without getting shiatstains on himself.
2017-09-14 02:24:46 AM  
2 votes:

Fiona Nine Tails: Weaver95: mcmnky: You: no union.
Police: union

me: state worker.  Yes, I have a union.  No, they will not protect me if I clearly violate procedure.  I've seen state workers get fired inside of 72 hours for violating security procedures and guide lines.  do NOT dick with those rules, they WILL fire us if we do.  sexual harassment and/or religious discrimination are also two other things that result in more or less instant firings.

Well, yes but you have to remember that your union is a Democrat ploy in order to garner more power and support "Big Government".  The GOP has done everything in their power to neuter it.  Police unions that actively support the GOP are precious snowflakes that must be protected because they can do no wrong.


Well, according to this site, at the Federal Level, more Democrats receive more money from the FOP.

Link
2017-09-14 01:42:30 AM  
2 votes:

NephilimNexus: So that's one full week of paid vacation per violation before going back to work as if nothing happened?

[media.istockphoto.com image 428x148]

Being a cop must be a great job.  The more you screw up the more you're rewarded.


Oh, no.  It's several weeks of full paid vacation, followed by frantic back-pedaling and financial compensation from the city to the policemen for daring to be mean to them, and then full reinstatement and promotions all around.
2017-09-14 01:29:24 AM  
2 votes:

twistedknickers: And so why haven't the 2 officers been fired?


Due process, equal protection, union contract.

They'll be fired.  Probably prosecuted too.  Both of these clowns are finished.
2017-09-14 10:58:36 AM  
1 vote:
Can't we all agree that there is blame on both sides?
2017-09-14 10:35:21 AM  
1 vote:

cefm: I'm sure the mayor will pressure the police chief to impose punishment up to and including termination.  But remember the police officers' union and the mayor/chief are opposing forces, so even if the chief wants to fire that jackass, he's limited in his ability to do so by the terms of the collective bargaining agreement and whatever progressive discipline process is laid out in that agreement.  So for those who are saying "why hasn't he been fired yet?" - it's a process that is only just starting.  It may result in termination, but only after all the hoops have been jumped through and all appeals exhausted.


Fire the Chief. Responsibility starts at the top. Once a few chiefs get fired, the message will get out, and all of this " the union is tying my hands" will evaporate. Discipline and lawful behavior in an enterprise begin at the top. Fire the Chief.
2017-09-14 10:12:03 AM  
1 vote:

Birnone: Bonzo_1116: I think you need to put yourself in this guy's shoes.

Specifically his shiny power tripping boots.

You're right. It's just that I would know that no hospital has extra staff just hanging around in case their needed. If I, as a cop, drag a nurse out of there for any reason, now they are understaffed. Now I have farked up a whole shiatload of things for everyone. The doctors, nurses, patients...everyone is going to be impacted. There's no way I'm pulling one of those people out of there unless they are doing something so bad the patients are better off short a nurse.


If any of her patients died, I wonder if their family could win a wrongful death suit against the guy.

Even if they wouldn't, they'd probably be able to take it to trial, so there'd at least be the chance.
2017-09-14 10:05:03 AM  
1 vote:
I hope that nurse sues the ever-loving fark out of the SLCPD, and everything they ever thought they could own.
2017-09-14 09:52:35 AM  
1 vote:

Big_Fat_Liar: JohnnyApocalypse: Birnone: Just from a non legal, regular person standpoint, the part of this whole thing that really puzzles me is 'arresting a nurse' part. Doctors, nurses, everyone who works in a hospital really, these are people who if I was a cop they would have to do something exceptional for me to want to arrest them. One day I may be coming into this hospital in bad condition, I want them to either treat me like anyone else or maybe even like me. The last thing I'd want is there to be bad blood between us.

Actually, the part that REALLY gets me is why were they so intent on getting this guy's blood drawn, and enough to arrest a nurse for not doing so, which they had to know was illegal to do? Is it just a case of "drunk on my badge"? Was there something else going on? This is mystifying. I just can't think of any good reason this happened.

You are the victim of fake news.  90% or more of articles from lame news sites regurgitated a watered down narrative that was reported early on, because 90% of journalists suck.   Go find better sources and you will find it was actually worse than that.  The cop was a trained phlebotomist and is qualified to draw blood.  The nurse refused to help this cop violate a person's constitutional rights.  She would not lead this cop to the location of the unconscious victim.   That is what set him off.

Search "jeff payne phlebotomist" to read articles written by journalists.

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/09/01/547840028/-somebody-​help-me-utah-nurse-cried-as-police-detective-roughly-arrested-her


I didn't know he was a phlebotomist. However, I don't think "fake news" is an accurate term here. It's misreporting and sloppy journalism. There's a big difference. Fake news is a purposeful misreporting or blatantly false reporting for political or monetary reasons. Newspapers mess up all the time and send out corrections to their earlier reports, if those mistakes are caught.

I think holding the line on fake news vs. sloppy journalism is a good thing. Intent means something.

ALSO, that he "was sent" to draw the blood puts a twist on all of this that isn't being fully explored. Who sent him? Was it the watch commander who sent him? Or someone higher up? That would answer my original question that I couldn't figure out. Did the police know at the time that the trucker victim was an off duty cop? Would that have made any difference in what they planned?
2017-09-14 09:46:10 AM  
1 vote:

Smoking GNU: Romulon Malapingi: namegoeshere: You know what would go a long way toward healing the rift making police fark over the justice system every chance they getin this community?  Charging these two for their crimes.

I'm sorry, i must be reading this wrong or you might have left out a word or something. Are you saying that charging police with a crime they committed on video would fark over the justice system??


I read that as him saying that holding criminal cops accountable for their actions would inspire the rest of the "good cops" to fark over the justice system out of spite. Or put another way, he's saying there are no good cops, just bad cops and cops who cover for bad cops.
2017-09-14 09:09:30 AM  
1 vote:
Biskupski said Wubbels' arrest has divided the community.

It has? So you're saying there are people in the community that think what the cop did was okay?
2017-09-14 08:42:46 AM  
1 vote:
Anyone with two brain cells wants this guy fired.

I don't want him fired quickly, I want him fired right.  If the city doesn't follow the civil service rules and the contract, he could end up getting his job back.  I don't want that.

If they fire him on the spot, the story goes away, people forget about it, and his appeal of the firing winds it's way through various review boards and commissions.  Then, when the public (with it's long attention span) is no longer paying attention, he gets his job back.

This happens in Philadelphia on a regular basis.  The commissioner announces they suspended for 30 days with the "intent to dismiss".  IA does a quick and sloppy investigation, and when no one is paying attention they put the guy back on the street.  That cop usually screws up again, but often with fatal consequences.

I'm not saying it's right, or I agree with it, but this is what it is.  Follow the process and fire him in a way that makes it impossible to be a cop again.  I don't care if they pay him in the process.  At least he's not kidnapping nurses and roughing them up.

This guy is the grand commander of jackasses, and has no business guarding a mall, let alone being a cop.
2017-09-14 08:38:24 AM  
1 vote:

mcmnky: Weaver95: ya know, if I walked into work one day and just ignored 5 or 6 major policies and procedures in place, I'd be out on my ass inside of oh...3 days or so.  But I guess even with massive amounts of evidence AND video footage AND the cop himself admitting to his improper actions they STILL can't fire a cop right away.

so again:

Me: no gun, computer programmer, average looking middle class white guy.  time to get fired: 3 days.
cop: legally carries a gun AND is permitted to use it more or less at will.  violated multiple dept policies and may have broken a couple laws.  time to get fired: 30 days and counting.

You: no union.
Police: union.


This.  Unions protect shiat employees.  That's at least 80% of what they're there for.
2017-09-14 08:22:57 AM  
1 vote:

fireclown: He's a grandstanding putz.  That officer called his superiors to verify what he should do.  What we saw there wasn't a violation of policy, it WAS policy.


The officer and the supervisor were both wrong. Unfortunately that's not really surprising and the Supreme Court has ruled that police can not be held accountable for being ignorant of the law.
2017-09-14 08:06:47 AM  
1 vote:

Fiona Nine Tails: scotzrewl: Fiona Nine Tails: scotzrewl: Well, according to this site, at the Federal Level, more Democrats receive more money from the FOP.

Link

And that has what to do with the Salt Lake Police Association precisely?  Oh, right.  Absolutely nothing.

So you lop off your claim, and then move the goalposts?

Nice.

You can be safely ignored.

You picked a single chapter of the Fraternal Order of Police that donated to Democrats in a completely different state than the one we're talking about and I'm moving the goalposts?  If I pull up the NYPD's Policemen's Benevolent Association I'd probably see a lean toward Democrats too.  That doesn't change the fact that police unions as a whole lean predominately Republican.

Jackass.


scotzrewl: Fiona Nine Tails: Weaver95: mcmnky: You: no union.
Police: union


Since you forgot what you originally posted...

me: state worker.  Yes, I have a union.  No, they will not protect me if I clearly violate procedure.  I've seen state workers get fired inside of 72 hours for violating security procedures and guide lines.  do NOT dick with those rules, they WILL fire us if we do.  sexual harassment and/or religious discrimination are also two other things that result in more or less instant firings.

Well, yes but you have to remember that your union is a Democrat ploy in order to garner more power and support "Big Government".  The GOP has done everything in their power to neuter it.  Police unions that actively support the GOP are precious snowflakes that must be protected because they can do no wrong.

Well, according to this site, at the Federal Level, more Democrats receive more money from the FOP.

Link


 I misread your original post. And I apologize, for my misreading.
2017-09-14 07:46:32 AM  
1 vote:
I can't help but think that this is become bigger news and that there is more focus on this particular police incident due to the color differences between victims.

I know I shouldn't LOOK for racism, especially in reverse. But it's sad that people don't take the cop problems more seriously until it's a white person.

I still don't think any major reform will come until a cop shoots and kills a black federal agent. I hope I'm wrong...or at least right.
2017-09-14 07:25:47 AM  
1 vote:
You know what would go a long way toward healing the rift in this community?  Charging these two for their crimes.
2017-09-14 05:50:49 AM  
1 vote:

Boo_Guy: "Salt Lake City police officers are some of the best law enforcement officers in the country."

So they're average is what you're saying.


By any other standard below average human
2017-09-14 04:01:46 AM  
1 vote:

GDubDub: Policies?  Citizen Review Boards?  Disciplinary measures?

How about LAWS.  Criminal investigations.  Criminal charges.  Trial.

These had better be parallel processes and not the former in lieu of the latter.


sometimes its worth having a range of options.  real life isn't black and white, its various shades of grey.  if the only option is to fire a cop, then no cop is going to want to see that done to a fellow officer over minor violations of policy which might otherwise be corrected without issue, and the whole process falls apart.

but if you discipline a cop, and make it clear that if he or she does better than the incident gets wiped off their records over time then you have a tool to instruct officers on what's best for the community without having to fire them over what could have been an honest mistake.

distinctions like this are often lost on authoritarians tho.  to them, everything is a nail and they are the hammer.
2017-09-14 03:38:11 AM  
1 vote:

randomjsa: The only policy that cop cares about is the "turn off the cameras" policy.


Yeah, I can imagine the SLCPD having a camera bonfire soon.
2017-09-14 03:04:22 AM  
1 vote:
Theaetetus:
 They actually use the term "contempt of cop", which appears to indicate that they thought this was violent retaliation from a psychopath.

But, he's a GOOD cop. We've NEVER seen him act like this.
2017-09-14 02:38:10 AM  
1 vote:

Fiona Nine Tails: Weaver95: mcmnky: You: no union.
Police: union

me: state worker.  Yes, I have a union.  No, they will not protect me if I clearly violate procedure.  I've seen state workers get fired inside of 72 hours for violating security procedures and guide lines.  do NOT dick with those rules, they WILL fire us if we do.  sexual harassment and/or religious discrimination are also two other things that result in more or less instant firings.

Well, yes but you have to remember that your union is a Democrat ploy in order to garner more power and support "Big Government".  The GOP has done everything in their power to neuter it.  Police unions that actively support the GOP are precious snowflakes that must be protected because they can do no wrong.


They also regularly shoot black people.
2017-09-14 02:26:30 AM  
1 vote:
Burn it all down.
2017-09-14 02:05:50 AM  
1 vote:
Well, as long as the violations are just 'staff policies', and not the law, then good on them.  Laws can sometime be Staff Policies, if the staff deem them as such. Neat.
2017-09-14 01:16:55 AM  
1 vote:

Dodger: anustart: twistedknickers: And so why haven't the 2 officers been fired?

Because Mayor's aren't Burgermeisters. They can't just fire cops like it's an episode of Starsky and Hutch.

The cops should be fired (and charged, frankly) but they are still entitled to the same due process that they tried to deny for that Nurse.

I have gone my entire 55 years, 9 of which were in Germany, believing that the word "burgermeister" translated directly to English as "mayor". So if mayors aren't burgermeisters (and inversely, burgermeisters aren't mayors) then what are burgermeisters?

/Wow - That reads snider than I intended. Serious question.


Chair of city council more or less. Actual unitary executive mayors in the US would typically have more power.
2017-09-14 01:09:34 AM  
1 vote:
2017-09-14 01:07:43 AM  
1 vote:

Boo_Guy: After the 20-day period, the findings of the investigations will be turned over to Salt Lake City Police Chief Mike Brown, who will round file them.


Hopefully.
 
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