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(KSL Salt Lake City)   Salt Lake mayor: "At least 6 separate policies were broken in arrest of nurse who wasn't breaking any"   ( ksl.com) divider line
    More: Followup, salt lake city, Police, lake city police, Constable, Law enforcement agency  
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10428 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 Sep 2017 at 12:49 AM (13 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2017-09-13 10:06:19 PM  
FTFA

"Those policies include conduct unbecoming by a police employee, courtesy in public contacts, policy regarding arrests, misdemeanor citations, situations requiring a report, law enforcement code of ethics and city policy regarding standards of conduct for employees "

Really. You illegally detain someone and THAT'S what you complain about?
 
2017-09-13 10:20:53 PM  
And so why haven't the 2 officers been fired?
 
2017-09-13 11:01:01 PM  
Your being arrest for "obstructing justice"

... but what you are requesting is not justice, its actually illegal.  A police officer demanding I do something illegal does not make the act un-illegal.
 
2017-09-13 11:16:47 PM  

twistedknickers: And so why haven't the 2 officers been fired?


TFA: "Biskupski said that Wednesday's announcement won't be the final step in the process. Both officers have 20 days to respond to the allegations, she said."
 
2017-09-14 12:27:40 AM  
ya know, if I walked into work one day and just ignored 5 or 6 major policies and procedures in place, I'd be out on my ass inside of oh...3 days or so.  But I guess even with massive amounts of evidence AND video footage AND the cop himself admitting to his improper actions they STILL can't fire a cop right away.

so again:

Me: no gun, computer programmer, average looking middle class white guy.  time to get fired: 3 days.
cop: legally carries a gun AND is permitted to use it more or less at will.  violated multiple dept policies and may have broken a couple laws.  time to get fired: 30 days and counting.
 
2017-09-14 12:51:32 AM  
Those who enforce the rules determine what is a rule or not.

Although I prefer Stalin's take on this:
The people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the votes decide everything.
 
2017-09-14 12:52:56 AM  
After the 20-day period, the findings of the investigations will be turned over to Salt Lake City Police Chief Mike Brown, who will round file them.
 
2017-09-14 12:54:10 AM  

Weaver95: ya know, if I walked into work one day and just ignored 5 or 6 major policies and procedures in place, I'd be out on my ass inside of oh...3 days or so.  But I guess even with massive amounts of evidence AND video footage AND the cop himself admitting to his improper actions they STILL can't fire a cop right away.

so again:

Me: no gun, computer programmer, average looking middle class white guy.  time to get fired: 3 days.
cop: legally carries a gun AND is permitted to use it more or less at will.  violated multiple dept policies and may have broken a couple laws.  time to get fired: 30 days and counting.


You: no union.
Police: union.
 
2017-09-14 12:55:22 AM  
"Salt Lake City police officers are some of the best law enforcement officers in the country."

So they're average is what you're saying.
 
2017-09-14 12:56:06 AM  

twistedknickers: And so why haven't the 2 officers been fired?


Because Mayor's aren't Burgermeisters. They can't just fire cops like it's an episode of Starsky and Hutch.

The cops should be fired (and charged, frankly) but they are still entitled to the same due process that they tried to deny for that Nurse.
 
2017-09-14 12:56:17 AM  
Let's remember the threat to harass that hospital by directing all the transients to them. That one goes well beyond these silly points about being courteous. It's like they are tossing up some strawmen to diffuse the rage.
 
2017-09-14 12:58:12 AM  
Welp, the police state tested that line, and the line to not cross is roughing up other public service workers.
 
2017-09-14 12:59:59 AM  
So that's one full week of paid vacation per violation before going back to work as if nothing happened?

media.istockphoto.comView Full Size


Being a cop must be a great job.  The more you screw up the more you're rewarded.
 
2017-09-14 01:00:02 AM  

wademh: Let's remember the threat to harass that hospital by directing all the transients to them. That one goes well beyond these silly points about being courteous. It's like they are tossing up some strawmen to diffuse the rage.


That got him fired from the EMS job where he could make good on that threat. It didn't have much to do with his job at the PD, which he should also be fired from for illegally detaining the nurse and being a douchebag in general.
 
2017-09-14 01:00:10 AM  

mcmnky: You: no union.
Police: union


me: state worker.  Yes, I have a union.  No, they will not protect me if I clearly violate procedure.  I've seen state workers get fired inside of 72 hours for violating security procedures and guide lines.  do NOT dick with those rules, they WILL fire us if we do.  sexual harassment and/or religious discrimination are also two other things that result in more or less instant firings.
 
2017-09-14 01:07:43 AM  

Boo_Guy: After the 20-day period, the findings of the investigations will be turned over to Salt Lake City Police Chief Mike Brown, who will round file them.


Hopefully.
 
2017-09-14 01:08:23 AM  

twistedknickers: And so why haven't the 2 officers been fired?


s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.comView Full Size
 
2017-09-14 01:09:34 AM  
 
2017-09-14 01:13:33 AM  
Should be charged for misspelling his superior's name in the report he filed too.
 
2017-09-14 01:13:51 AM  

anustart: twistedknickers: And so why haven't the 2 officers been fired?

Because Mayor's aren't Burgermeisters. They can't just fire cops like it's an episode of Starsky and Hutch.

The cops should be fired (and charged, frankly) but they are still entitled to the same due process that they tried to deny for that Nurse.


I have gone my entire 55 years, 9 of which were in Germany, believing that the word "burgermeister" translated directly to English as "mayor". So if mayors aren't burgermeisters (and inversely, burgermeisters aren't mayors) then what are burgermeisters?

/Wow - That reads snider than I intended. Serious question.
 
2017-09-14 01:16:55 AM  

Dodger: anustart: twistedknickers: And so why haven't the 2 officers been fired?

Because Mayor's aren't Burgermeisters. They can't just fire cops like it's an episode of Starsky and Hutch.

The cops should be fired (and charged, frankly) but they are still entitled to the same due process that they tried to deny for that Nurse.

I have gone my entire 55 years, 9 of which were in Germany, believing that the word "burgermeister" translated directly to English as "mayor". So if mayors aren't burgermeisters (and inversely, burgermeisters aren't mayors) then what are burgermeisters?

/Wow - That reads snider than I intended. Serious question.


Chair of city council more or less. Actual unitary executive mayors in the US would typically have more power.
 
2017-09-14 01:17:04 AM  

Dodger: anustart: twistedknickers: And so why haven't the 2 officers been fired?

Because Mayor's aren't Burgermeisters. They can't just fire cops like it's an episode of Starsky and Hutch.

The cops should be fired (and charged, frankly) but they are still entitled to the same due process that they tried to deny for that Nurse.

I have gone my entire 55 years, 9 of which were in Germany, believing that the word "burgermeister" translated directly to English as "mayor". So if mayors aren't burgermeisters (and inversely, burgermeisters aren't mayors) then what are burgermeisters?

/Wow - That reads snider than I intended. Serious question.


They're like half mayor, half old west lawman.

Thank you Sierra and QFG 4.
 
2017-09-14 01:17:35 AM  
FTFA, "We have said all along that we believe that to regain public trust, that the police department needs to police itself."

It's too farking late for that.  Police departments across the country have made it crystal clear that they can not be trusted to police themselves.
 
2017-09-14 01:20:33 AM  

Dodger: anustart: twistedknickers: And so why haven't the 2 officers been fired?

Because Mayor's aren't Burgermeisters. They can't just fire cops like it's an episode of Starsky and Hutch.

The cops should be fired (and charged, frankly) but they are still entitled to the same due process that they tried to deny for that Nurse.

I have gone my entire 55 years, 9 of which were in Germany, believing that the word "burgermeister" translated directly to English as "mayor". So if mayors aren't burgermeisters (and inversely, burgermeisters aren't mayors) then what are burgermeisters?

/Wow - That reads snider than I intended. Serious question.


Literally, "master of the citizens".
 
2017-09-14 01:24:26 AM  

anustart: twistedknickers: And so why haven't the 2 officers been fired?

Because Mayor's aren't Burgermeisters. They can't just fire cops like it's an episode of Starsky and Hutch.

The cops should be fired (and charged, frankly) but they are still entitled to the same due process that they tried to deny for that Nurse.


Just because theyre unionized.

Cool story bro time.

I was a cop for 10 years. We had a dumb as hell Chief of Police who ran the dept like the good ole boys club. Finally city council got sick of it and fired him on the spot since we werent unionized. He walked out of the city hall meeting room and filed paperwork to run for mayor, which he then won. He then ran the police dept from city hall.

Small town politics are the worst.
 
2017-09-14 01:28:02 AM  

Weaver95: mcmnky: You: no union.
Police: union

me: state worker.  Yes, I have a union.  No, they will not protect me if I clearly violate procedure.  I've seen state workers get fired inside of 72 hours for violating security procedures and guide lines.  do NOT dick with those rules, they WILL fire us if we do.  sexual harassment and/or religious discrimination are also two other things that result in more or less instant firings.


Well, yes but you have to remember that your union is a Democrat ploy in order to garner more power and support "Big Government".  The GOP has done everything in their power to neuter it.  Police unions that actively support the GOP are precious snowflakes that must be protected because they can do no wrong.
 
2017-09-14 01:29:24 AM  

twistedknickers: And so why haven't the 2 officers been fired?


Due process, equal protection, union contract.

They'll be fired.  Probably prosecuted too.  Both of these clowns are finished.
 
2017-09-14 01:29:39 AM  

twistedknickers: And so why haven't the 2 officers been fired?


Ironically, they get due process, the very thing she was denied.
 
2017-09-14 01:33:07 AM  
Just from a non legal, regular person standpoint, the part of this whole thing that really puzzles me is 'arresting a nurse' part. Doctors, nurses, everyone who works in a hospital really, these are people who if I was a cop they would have to do something exceptional for me to want to arrest them. One day I may be coming into this hospital in bad condition, I want them to either treat me like anyone else or maybe even like me. The last thing I'd want is there to be bad blood between us.
 
2017-09-14 01:39:04 AM  

Birnone: Just from a non legal, regular person standpoint, the part of this whole thing that really puzzles me is 'arresting a nurse' part. Doctors, nurses, everyone who works in a hospital really, these are people who if I was a cop they would have to do something exceptional for me to want to arrest them. One day I may be coming into this hospital in bad condition, I want them to either treat me like anyone else or maybe even like me. The last thing I'd want is there to be bad blood between us.


I think you need to put yourself in this guy's shoes.

Specifically his shiny power tripping boots.
 
2017-09-14 01:42:30 AM  

NephilimNexus: So that's one full week of paid vacation per violation before going back to work as if nothing happened?

[media.istockphoto.com image 428x148]

Being a cop must be a great job.  The more you screw up the more you're rewarded.


Oh, no.  It's several weeks of full paid vacation, followed by frantic back-pedaling and financial compensation from the city to the policemen for daring to be mean to them, and then full reinstatement and promotions all around.
 
2017-09-14 01:42:56 AM  

mcmnky: Weaver95: ya know, if I walked into work one day and just ignored 5 or 6 major policies and procedures in place, I'd be out on my ass inside of oh...3 days or so.  But I guess even with massive amounts of evidence AND video footage AND the cop himself admitting to his improper actions they STILL can't fire a cop right away.

so again:

Me: no gun, computer programmer, average looking middle class white guy.  time to get fired: 3 days.
cop: legally carries a gun AND is permitted to use it more or less at will.  violated multiple dept policies and may have broken a couple laws.  time to get fired: 30 days and counting.

You: no union.
Police: union.


Yeah, no. I work as a union staffer. And if I pulled anything close to this crap, my own union rep would rightly call me a dumbass. The union would file a grievance, sure, because they pretty much have to ("duty of fair representation"). So yeah I probably get a paid suspension while this goes through the system for a bit, then the union tells me they're not taking it to arbitration because I'm an idiot and they're under no obligation to blow a perfectly good litigation budget on behalf of my stupid ass.

Copes get special rules, and not just because they're union.
 
2017-09-14 01:43:19 AM  

Fiona Nine Tails: Weaver95: mcmnky: You: no union.
Police: union

me: state worker.  Yes, I have a union.  No, they will not protect me if I clearly violate procedure.  I've seen state workers get fired inside of 72 hours for violating security procedures and guide lines.  do NOT dick with those rules, they WILL fire us if we do.  sexual harassment and/or religious discrimination are also two other things that result in more or less instant firings.

Well, yes but you have to remember that your union is a Democrat ploy in order to garner more power and support "Big Government".  The GOP has done everything in their power to neuter it.  Police unions that actively support the GOP are precious snowflakes that must be protected because they can do no wrong.


You got it. It's obviously the fault of Republicans that police unions rule everything, even in the majority of cities that Democrats have had iron control over for the past half century. It must be those evil Republicans.

/eyeroll
 
2017-09-14 01:45:26 AM  
I assume when they said 'policies' they meant to say 'laws and basic standards of human decency'?
 
2017-09-14 01:46:25 AM  
I actually came in here to comment on why the hell policies are being discussed rather than criminal charges, starting with false arrest and moving on to whatever flavor of abuse of power laws they have there.
 
2017-09-14 01:49:34 AM  

Birnone: Just from a non legal, regular person standpoint, the part of this whole thing that really puzzles me is 'arresting a nurse' part. Doctors, nurses, everyone who works in a hospital really, these are people who if I was a cop they would have to do something exceptional for me to want to arrest them. One day I may be coming into this hospital in bad condition, I want them to either treat me like anyone else or maybe even like me. The last thing I'd want is there to be bad blood between us.


Actually, the part that REALLY gets me is why were they so intent on getting this guy's blood drawn, and enough to arrest a nurse for not doing so, which they had to know was illegal to do? Is it just a case of "drunk on my badge"? Was there something else going on? This is mystifying. I just can't think of any good reason this happened.
 
2017-09-14 01:52:18 AM  

Bonzo_1116: I think you need to put yourself in this guy's shoes.

Specifically his shiny power tripping boots.


You're right. It's just that I would know that no hospital has extra staff just hanging around in case their needed. If I, as a cop, drag a nurse out of there for any reason, now they are understaffed. Now I have farked up a whole shiatload of things for everyone. The doctors, nurses, patients...everyone is going to be impacted. There's no way I'm pulling one of those people out of there unless they are doing something so bad the patients are better off short a nurse.
 
2017-09-14 02:00:52 AM  

anustart: twistedknickers: And so why haven't the 2 officers been fired?

Because Mayor's aren't Burgermeisters. They can't just fire cops like it's an episode of Starsky and Hutch.

The cops should be fired (and charged, frankly) but they are still entitled to the same due process that they tried to deny for that Nurse.


They arrested her in minutes but they will have months of paid leave to wait to find out that nothing will happen to them.
 
2017-09-14 02:01:38 AM  

JohnnyApocalypse: Birnone: Just from a non legal, regular person standpoint, the part of this whole thing that really puzzles me is 'arresting a nurse' part. Doctors, nurses, everyone who works in a hospital really, these are people who if I was a cop they would have to do something exceptional for me to want to arrest them. One day I may be coming into this hospital in bad condition, I want them to either treat me like anyone else or maybe even like me. The last thing I'd want is there to be bad blood between us.

Actually, the part that REALLY gets me is why were they so intent on getting this guy's blood drawn, and enough to arrest a nurse for not doing so, which they had to know was illegal to do? Is it just a case of "drunk on my badge"? Was there something else going on? This is mystifying. I just can't think of any good reason this happened.


My understand is a police chase went bad, the guy they wanted blood from was slammed into by a cop.

They were fishing for a way to blame someone else.
 
2017-09-14 02:05:50 AM  
Well, as long as the violations are just 'staff policies', and not the law, then good on them.  Laws can sometime be Staff Policies, if the staff deem them as such. Neat.
 
2017-09-14 02:09:22 AM  

Birnone: Just from a non legal, regular person standpoint, the part of this whole thing that really puzzles me is 'arresting a nurse' part. Doctors, nurses, everyone who works in a hospital really, these are people who if I was a cop they would have to do something exceptional for me to want to arrest them. One day I may be coming into this hospital in bad condition, I want them to either treat me like anyone else or maybe even like me. The last thing I'd want is there to be bad blood between us.

and not
Buy if you did, they'd be adult about it, and not let that get in the way of your care.
 
2017-09-14 02:12:18 AM  
So give the nurse a night stick and let her break six separate bones of each officer. Then fire both of them.
 
2017-09-14 02:15:56 AM  

Carousel Beast: You got it. It's obviously the fault of Republicans that police unions rule everything, even in the majority of cities that Democrats have had iron control over for the past half century. It must be those evil Republicans.

/eyeroll


Have you ever heard the GOP talk about police unions having too much power?  Notice how no matter what a police officer does their union representative is first in front of the media protecting them?  How many times have we heard the GOP complain about how hard it is to fire teachers, yet the same thing happens with police unions and there's nary a peep.

So yeah, it's the GOP and their "Blue Lives Matter / Thin Blue Line" BS that protects these cops where anyone else would have been fired for cause.
 
2017-09-14 02:16:35 AM  

Bonzo_1116: Birnone: Just from a non legal, regular person standpoint, the part of this whole thing that really puzzles me is 'arresting a nurse' part. Doctors, nurses, everyone who works in a hospital really, these are people who if I was a cop they would have to do something exceptional for me to want to arrest them. One day I may be coming into this hospital in bad condition, I want them to either treat me like anyone else or maybe even like me. The last thing I'd want is there to be bad blood between us.

I think you need to put yourself in this guy's shoes.

Specifically his shiny power tripping boots.


Yeah. There's actually a bit in the report where the board noted that all of this occurred after the nurse asked for his business card, so she could presumably file a complaint. They actually use the term "contempt of cop", which appears to indicate that they thought this was violent retaliation from a psychopath.
 
2017-09-14 02:17:46 AM  

Spicy_McHaggus: anustart: twistedknickers: And so why haven't the 2 officers been fired?

Because Mayor's aren't Burgermeisters. They can't just fire cops like it's an episode of Starsky and Hutch.

The cops should be fired (and charged, frankly) but they are still entitled to the same due process that they tried to deny for that Nurse.

Just because theyre unionized.

Cool story bro time.

I was a cop for 10 years. We had a dumb as hell Chief of Police who ran the dept like the good ole boys club. Finally city council got sick of it and fired him on the spot since we werent unionized. He walked out of the city hall meeting room and filed paperwork to run for mayor, which he then won. He then ran the police dept from city hall.

Small town politics are the worst.


Don't know if I should slow clap or cry. That's disgusting.

img.fark.netView Full Size

Is this the chap?
 
2017-09-14 02:20:40 AM  

Boo_Guy: My understand is a police chase went bad, the guy they wanted blood from was slammed into by a cop.

They were fishing for a way to blame someone else.


Close... Police chase went bad, but they guy they wanted blood from was an off duty cop from another state, working his weekend trucking job. The chasee drove into him in oncoming traffic.

If the police chase was against policy, then the state may be on the hook for all of the injured guy's medical expenses, lost income, pain and suffering, etc. But, Utah's a comparative negligence state - if they could find drugs or alcohol in his system and say that he was at least partly at fault, they could potentially wipe all of that out.

So, yeah, they were looking for a way to blame the victim. And when the nurse tried to instruct the cop about the law, he saw someone being uppity and decided to live out his violent power fantasies. He probably had some great sex that night, thinking about it. I wonder if his wife consented.
 
2017-09-14 02:24:46 AM  

Fiona Nine Tails: Weaver95: mcmnky: You: no union.
Police: union

me: state worker.  Yes, I have a union.  No, they will not protect me if I clearly violate procedure.  I've seen state workers get fired inside of 72 hours for violating security procedures and guide lines.  do NOT dick with those rules, they WILL fire us if we do.  sexual harassment and/or religious discrimination are also two other things that result in more or less instant firings.

Well, yes but you have to remember that your union is a Democrat ploy in order to garner more power and support "Big Government".  The GOP has done everything in their power to neuter it.  Police unions that actively support the GOP are precious snowflakes that must be protected because they can do no wrong.


Well, according to this site, at the Federal Level, more Democrats receive more money from the FOP.

Link
 
2017-09-14 02:26:30 AM  
Burn it all down.
 
2017-09-14 02:38:10 AM  

Fiona Nine Tails: Weaver95: mcmnky: You: no union.
Police: union

me: state worker.  Yes, I have a union.  No, they will not protect me if I clearly violate procedure.  I've seen state workers get fired inside of 72 hours for violating security procedures and guide lines.  do NOT dick with those rules, they WILL fire us if we do.  sexual harassment and/or religious discrimination are also two other things that result in more or less instant firings.

Well, yes but you have to remember that your union is a Democrat ploy in order to garner more power and support "Big Government".  The GOP has done everything in their power to neuter it.  Police unions that actively support the GOP are precious snowflakes that must be protected because they can do no wrong.


They also regularly shoot black people.
 
2017-09-14 02:42:25 AM  

Birnone: Bonzo_1116: I think you need to put yourself in this guy's shoes.

Specifically his shiny power tripping boots.

You're right. It's just that I would know that no hospital has extra staff just hanging around in case their needed. If I, as a cop, drag a nurse out of there for any reason, now they are understaffed. Now I have farked up a whole shiatload of things for everyone. The doctors, nurses, patients...everyone is going to be impacted. There's no way I'm pulling one of those people out of there unless they are doing something so bad the patients are better off short a nurse.


Show me where all that thinking fits into "RESPECT MAH ATHORATAY!".
 
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