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(Phys Org2)   "Army scientists discover power in urine." Pee All That You Can Pee   ( phys.org) divider line
    More: Spiffy, fuel cells, Water, Dr. Kristopher Darling, ARL researcher, nano-galvanic aluminum-based powder, Energy, liquid containing water, power fuel cells  
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4098 clicks; posted to Main » on 13 Sep 2017 at 10:45 PM (12 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



80 Comments     (+0 »)
 
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2017-09-14 12:17:33 AM  
US Army: on a scale of 1-10, urinate.
 
2017-09-14 12:19:44 AM  
img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2017-09-14 12:32:34 AM  
From a purely urine based chemical standpoint I am saying hell yeah,,,
Sorry I like nitrogenous compounds
 
2017-09-14 12:41:14 AM  
So like, wouldn't this be an awesome large-scale way to purify water? You have a vat of urine, sewage, vomit, blood, whatever... It has water in it... You dump this hydrolyaferinous aluminum or whatever it's called in, harvest the hydrogen, burn the harvested hydrogen and *poof*, pure drinkable H2O

Who wants to fund me?
 
2017-09-14 01:04:57 AM  

berylman: From a purely urine based chemical standpoint I am saying hell yeah,,,
Sorry I like nitrogenous compounds


Nitrogen compounds AND phosphorus?

Well shucks, a fellah could blow the hell up outta all kinds of stuff with all of that.
 
2017-09-14 01:13:32 AM  

whither_apophis: I pee more by 6:00 am than most people do all day

/farking prostate


And 12 people thought this is funny??

/if it is sarcasm, it's time to smash mine, I reckon?
 
2017-09-14 01:38:43 AM  
Imagine a world where you wake up in the morning and fill your own car with hydrogen.

i1377.photobucket.comView Full Size


The oil companies will not allow this to happen without being the ones to supply this new powder.
It will be the next drive of paying off politicians.
 
2017-09-14 01:40:33 AM  

MSBFDffpm: whither_apophis: I pee more by 6:00 am than most people do all day

/farking prostate

And 12 people thought this is funny??

/if it is sarcasm, it's time to smash mine, I reckon?


Hyperbowl.
 
2017-09-14 01:46:55 AM  
"Piss on you, I'm workin' for Mel Brooks."
img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2017-09-14 03:16:34 AM  

Gawdzila: " "We have calculated that one kilogram of aluminum powder can produce 220 kilowatts of energy in just three minutes," said Dr. Anit Giri "

Sigh.  Physics fail.
Kilowatts is not a unit of energy, it is a unit of power -- in other words, a rate of energy.

In order to tell me how much energy this 1kg of aluminum powder can make, you have to tell me how long this 220kW of power will last.  If I have a hypothetical device that requires 220kW of power to work, can I run it for a second?  A minute?  An hour?  The difference between 220 Kilowatt-microseconds and 220 Kilowatt-hours is a pretty farking enormous amount of energy.


From your quoted text, the answer appears to be 3 minutes.
 
2017-09-14 04:04:31 AM  

Chemlight Battery: fusillade762: Why is every instance of the word "soldier" capitalized?

Soldier is capitalized for the same reason Marine is capitalized. It's been official Army policy since 2003 and has widely been adopted elsewhere when specifically referring to a member of the Army and not used as a generic term for a military person. It's not new.


But what about when you're talking about a marine soldier?

/It's idiotic with soldier, it's idiotic with marine.
//Capitalize neither.
 
2017-09-14 04:08:59 AM  
fark all you y'all, I'm just here because Germane Jackson needed a professional  lighting crew.
 
2017-09-14 04:16:31 AM  

GDubDub: Gawdzila: " "We have calculated that one kilogram of aluminum powder can produce 220 kilowatts of energy in just three minutes," said Dr. Anit Giri "

Sigh.  Physics fail.
Kilowatts is not a unit of energy, it is a unit of power -- in other words, a rate of energy.

In order to tell me how much energy this 1kg of aluminum powder can make, you have to tell me how long this 220kW of power will last.  If I have a hypothetical device that requires 220kW of power to work, can I run it for a second?  A minute?  An hour?  The difference between 220 Kilowatt-microseconds and 220 Kilowatt-hours is a pretty farking enormous amount of energy.

From your quoted text, the answer appears to be 3 minutes.


No.   if tfa said 'for' 3 minutes then yes.  But that's not what it said.   Sloppy language is meaningless at best.   In that case it's worse than meaningless; it's misleading.
 
2017-09-14 04:21:52 AM  

DarkVader: Chemlight Battery: fusillade762: Why is every instance of the word "soldier" capitalized?

Soldier is capitalized for the same reason Marine is capitalized. It's been official Army policy since 2003 and has widely been adopted elsewhere when specifically referring to a member of the Army and not used as a generic term for a military person. It's not new.

But what about when you're talking about a marine soldier?

/It's idiotic with soldier, it's idiotic with marine.
//Capitalize neither.


Not looking forward to having to capitalize "Seamen".
 
2017-09-14 05:16:04 AM  

Ivo Shandor: Pointy Tail of Satan: It takes a lot of energy to split water molecules. This is actually a rather interesting bit of chemistry.

It takes less energy to split urea.


And how much to split Chris Rea?
 
2017-09-14 06:14:24 AM  

GDubDub: Gawdzila: " "We have calculated that one kilogram of aluminum powder can produce 220 kilowatts of energy in just three minutes," said Dr. Anit Giri "

Sigh.  Physics fail.
Kilowatts is not a unit of energy, it is a unit of power -- in other words, a rate of energy.

In order to tell me how much energy this 1kg of aluminum powder can make, you have to tell me how long this 220kW of power will last.  If I have a hypothetical device that requires 220kW of power to work, can I run it for a second?  A minute?  An hour?  The difference between 220 Kilowatt-microseconds and 220 Kilowatt-hours is a pretty farking enormous amount of energy.

From your quoted text, the answer appears to be 3 minutes.


The phrasing "IN 3 minutes" instead of "FOR 3 minutes" implies that this is the speed of the chemical reaction, not the amount of time that power is provided for.  After all, the purpose of this aluminum powder is to liberate hydrogen for use in fuel cells, and reaction speed was the critical part of this discovery, after all.

But the thing is, the idea that a certain amount of hydrogen provides a certain level of power doesn't even make any sense anyway -- such a figure would be determined by the design of the fuel cells and how they're connected to each other.  It has nothing to do with the powder.  One COULD determine the total amount of energy a given amount of hydrogen would provide (for a given fuel cell efficiency), but they didn't give us that, because apparently they don't know what energy is or how it is measured.
 
2017-09-14 06:57:28 AM  
"Our basic focus is materials development and optimization," Darling said. "We're looking at how we can optimize the composition, its interactions with other fluids, including saliva and other liquids available to Soldiers in a field environment."


Sperm...
 
2017-09-14 07:36:34 AM  
Seems the military has always been infatuated with the power of pee?
From the Civil War - they collected urine to make gunpowder (Author(s) Unknown):

CONFERATE VIEW OF IT
John Haralson, John Haralson-you are a wretched creature;
You've added to this bloody war a new and useful feature.
You'd have us think, while every man is bound to be a fighter,
The Ladies, bless the pretty dears, should save their pee for nitre.
John Haralson, John Haralson, where did you get the notion,
To send the barrel 'round to gather up the lotion?
We thought the girls had work enough to making shirts and kissing,
But you have put the pretty dears to Patriotic Pissing.
John Haralson, John Haralson, pray do invent a neater,
And somewhat less immodest way of making your saltpetre.
For 'tis an awful idea, John, gunpowdery and cranky
That when a lady lifts her skirts, she's killing off and Yankee.
YANKEE VIEW OF IT
John Haralson, John Haralson, we've read in song and story,
How women's tears, through all the years, have moistened fields of glory.
But never was it told before, how 'mid such scene of slaughter
Your Southern beauties dried their tears and went to making water.
No wonder that your boys were brave; who couldn't be a fighter,
If every time he fired his gun, he used his sweetheart's nitre.
And vice versa, what could make a Yankee soldier sadder,
Than dodging bullets fired by a pretty woman's bladder?
They say there was a subtle smell which lingered in the powder
And as the smoke grew thicker and din of battle louder,
That there was found in this compound one serious objection-
No soldier boy could sniff it without having an erection!!
 
2017-09-14 08:49:35 AM  
So is pecker checker going to become an MOS?
 
2017-09-14 08:54:32 AM  
I remember history lessons where they told us that Napoleon used soldiers pee, to make Saltpeter (for gunpowder) back in the......<whenever Napoleon lived>

/OK, so I never said I was any good at History
//pee stories, though..... those I remember
 
2017-09-14 09:43:38 AM  

whither_apophis: I pee more by 6:00 am than most people do all day

/farking prostate


Trust me, it could be worse.
img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2017-09-14 10:04:58 AM  
Urine the Army now.
 
2017-09-14 10:06:10 AM  
thesun.co.ukView Full Size

The power of urine
 
2017-09-14 11:17:17 AM  
I pee therefore I am!
 
2017-09-14 11:32:46 AM  

NotThatGuyAgain: whither_apophis: I pee more by 6:00 am than most people do all day

/farking prostate

Trust me, it could be worse.
[img.fark.net image 425x727]


Now I do not feel so all alone;
Every kidney must get stones.
 
2017-09-14 11:56:28 AM  
So, jokes aside...

"We have calculated that one kilogram of aluminum powder can produce 220 kilowatts of energy in just three minutes," said Dr. Anit Giri, also an ARL researcher.

Holy sheit! That is 1,222 watts a second. That is A LOT of raw energy (potential). Is it just a catalyst? Is it exothermic? How much water (or urine) is "used". What other elements are released (pure O2 burns quite well)? What remains? What happens after 3 minutes?

This is quite a big deal if it can be properly harnessed, especially in a portable unit.

/inquiring minds...
 
2017-09-14 03:04:35 PM  

BKITU: NotThatGuyAgain: whither_apophis: I pee more by 6:00 am than most people do all day

/farking prostate

Trust me, it could be worse.
[img.fark.net image 425x727]

Now I do not feel so all alone;
Every kidney must get stones.


That gave me a great laugh on a crappy work day.  Thanks!
 
2017-09-14 03:23:59 PM  
Give it to me boys! All over the face, I need the nitrogen.
img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2017-09-14 04:09:47 PM  

Percise1: So, jokes aside...

"We have calculated that one kilogram of aluminum powder can produce 220 kilowatts of energy in just three minutes," said Dr. Anit Giri, also an ARL researcher.

Holy sheit! That is 1,222 watts a second. That is A LOT of raw energy (potential).


No, that isn't what that means.
In fact the researcher's statement doesn't even make any sense from a physics perspective.  220kW isn't a measure of energy, it's a measure of power -- which is a RATE of energy production.

220kW/3 minutes doesn't mean 1.222kW/second. A rate is an instantaneous reading, like speed.
In fact, let's make some analogies here to illustrate. If Watts = speed in mph, then: energy = miles, and watts/second = acceleration.

What this researcher basically said is, "We made a new fuel, and 1kg of it can make a car go a distance of 120mph in 3 minutes!"

First of all, does that make any got-damn sense?  No. It does not. It doesn't make sense on any level. Even if they said it could make a car go 120mph FOR 3 minutes, that would make more sense, but still -- doesn't the actual speed depend more on the car itself?

Second of all, if you divide that 120mph by 3 minutes, does that tell you how many miles it would actually go?  No.
Does it even make any sense to do that calculation?  Very likely not. What it gives you is a rate of acceleration of 40mph per minute. That isn't nonsense, but in this case it likely doesn't correspond to anything. It certainly doesn't tell you how far the car will go.

So the calculation you're doing -- dividing 220kW by 3 minutes -- is giving you an "acceleration" for an increase in wattage that probably does not correspond to anything actual. It is certainly not telling you how much energy this reaction is producing.

Also, energy isn't potential.  Electrical potential is measured in volts, energy is measured in joules.  Voltage would depend on the design of the fuel cell itself.

My best guess is that the "3 minutes" part is talking about how long the reaction takes to separate the hydrogen in the water and that the "220kW" figure came from a researcher who misspoke, or who was misquoted. It can NOT be the case that the reaction itself actually produces that much power for that amount of time.

The reaction produces hydrogen for fuel cells, not electricity.  The hydrogen provides an energy pool to power those fuel cells, but the amount of power those fuel cells produce depends on how those fuel cells are designed. In order to give us energy, they'd either have to give us a number measured in Joules, or they'd have to tell us how long their fuel cell stack could sustain a 220kW output.
 
2017-09-14 04:24:14 PM  

NotThatGuyAgain: That gave me a great laugh on a crappy work day. Thanks!


=D
 
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