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(Marketwatch)   The bloom may be coming off the rose as Bitcoin suffers a 18.5 billion loss since early September   ( marketwatch.com) divider line
    More: Awkward, digital currencies, Washington Mutual, Currency, bitcoin, Dimon obliterate bitcoin, Exchange rate, United States dollar, digital currency  
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734 clicks; posted to Business » on 13 Sep 2017 at 8:22 PM (12 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2017-09-13 05:42:56 PM  
A currency created by game play and with no inherit value that can be destroyed with a 51% attack being called a fraud sounds about right.
A PlayStation or Xbox based currency would be a better bad choice to trade.
 
2017-09-13 05:52:17 PM  
So like, 10 bitcoins?
 
2017-09-13 07:44:20 PM  
...And the dollar is any different? The only value in a U.S. dollar is the belief that someone values it as much as you do.
 
2017-09-13 07:48:51 PM  
I have a general rule in life regarding investments; if it can't be explained to me with a degree of sense why something is of value or will increase in value over time, I'm not interested in investing in it.  I have never understood what made bitcoin worth what they claimed it to be worth, or how it could possibly increase in value beyond blind belief that it would increase in value.
 
2017-09-13 07:50:16 PM  

Wookie_Jesus: ...And the dollar is any different? The only value in a U.S. dollar is the belief that someone values it as much as you do.


Well, the US dollar is backed by the US government.  Bitcoin always seemed to me to have the backing of Justin down at Game Stop.
 
2017-09-13 08:29:07 PM  
The problem with Bitcoin is calling it a currency. It's a highly volatile security.
 
2017-09-13 08:33:40 PM  

Prey4reign: Wookie_Jesus: ...And the dollar is any different? The only value in a U.S. dollar is the belief that someone values it as much as you do.

Well, the US dollar is backed by the US government.  Bitcoin always seemed to me to have the backing of Justin down at Game Stop.


Yet it's fabricated out of thin air. All currency is, is a belief on a belief as Prey4reign stated.

/haters gunna hate
 
2017-09-13 08:34:47 PM  
The US government?....lay your coin down and hope that we keep scaring everyone into believing our paper is worth more than theirs.
It is still the same. It is only worth what someone else values it at.
There is nothing behind the dollar but what someone else values it at and will take it for goods that they value the same.
 
2017-09-13 08:43:05 PM  

divx88: Prey4reign: Wookie_Jesus: ...And the dollar is any different? The only value in a U.S. dollar is the belief that someone values it as much as you do.

Well, the US dollar is backed by the US government.  Bitcoin always seemed to me to have the backing of Justin down at Game Stop.

Yet it's fabricated out of thin air. All currency is, is a belief on a belief as Prey4reign stated.

/haters gunna hate


Doesn't matter.  It's still backed by the U.S. government.
 
2017-09-13 08:52:15 PM  

Wookie_Jesus: The US government?....lay your coin down and hope that we keep scaring everyone into believing our paper is worth more than theirs.
It is still the same. It is only worth what someone else values it at.
There is nothing behind the dollar but what someone else values it at and will take it for goods that they value the same.


Meh. 4/10. No mention of "fiat currency", "Austria", the Federal Reserve, or even the gold standard.

Currency-of any kind-has NEVER held any value beyond its agreed upon value, other than decoration, or perhaps to eat (spices, salt). And for all of our issues, the United States has ample assets to backstop every bill and coin, every Treasury note, and bond. And that is just government assets; there are indovidual firms with trillions in private assets under management.
 
2017-09-13 08:53:17 PM  
Everyone using any currency is still bartering but they have agreed on a mutual valuation.
So you don't have to argue over how many ducks equal a goat, you both agree that a goat = equals *money and a duck =*money. So if I don't have any ducks but I want your goat and you agree that the pieces of paper I hold are worth your goat...we make a deal.
The paper only holds the value you give it...because in the end, I have a goat and you just have a handful of paper.
 
2017-09-13 08:57:55 PM  

Wookie_Jesus: Everyone using any currency is still bartering but they have agreed on a mutual valuation.
So you don't have to argue over how many ducks equal a goat, you both agree that a goat = equals *money and a duck =*money. So if I don't have any ducks but I want your goat and you agree that the pieces of paper I hold are worth your goat...we make a deal.
The paper only holds the value you give it...because in the end, I have a goat and you just have a handful of paper.


Congratulations! You understand the concept of "currency".
 
2017-09-13 09:00:23 PM  

trialpha: Wookie_Jesus: Everyone using any currency is still bartering but they have agreed on a mutual valuation.
So you don't have to argue over how many ducks equal a goat, you both agree that a goat = equals *money and a duck =*money. So if I don't have any ducks but I want your goat and you agree that the pieces of paper I hold are worth your goat...we make a deal.
The paper only holds the value you give it...because in the end, I have a goat and you just have a handful of paper.

Congratulations! You understand the concept of "currency".

So in my congratulatory speech, how should I address that one form of currency is better than another?
 
2017-09-13 09:04:42 PM  

Wookie_Jesus: trialpha: Wookie_Jesus: Everyone using any currency is still bartering but they have agreed on a mutual valuation.
So you don't have to argue over how many ducks equal a goat, you both agree that a goat = equals *money and a duck =*money. So if I don't have any ducks but I want your goat and you agree that the pieces of paper I hold are worth your goat...we make a deal.
The paper only holds the value you give it...because in the end, I have a goat and you just have a handful of paper.

Congratulations! You understand the concept of "currency".
So in my congratulatory speech, how should I address that one form of currency is better than another?


I don't buy shiattons of dollar bills based on pure speculation. Well some people do, but they don't move the markets enough to worry about much. Well ok, they do, but not often enough to fret over.
 
2017-09-13 09:05:04 PM  

Russ1642: The problem with Bitcoin is calling it a currency. It's a highly volatile security.


Nah.  It's a commodity.

And a bunch of people are going to be stuck with a warehouse full of rotten tomatoes now that the institutional investors that manufactured this pump and dump cashed out.
 
2017-09-13 09:11:25 PM  
TulipCoin?
BitTulip?
PogsCoin?
 
2017-09-13 09:11:55 PM  

Wookie_Jesus: So in my congratulatory speech, how should I address that one form of currency is better than another?


This is easy. The currency that's used by more people, and backed by an incredibly powerful government is inherently better than one used by a handful.
 
2017-09-13 09:14:13 PM  

Wookie_Jesus: trialpha: Wookie_Jesus: Everyone using any currency is still bartering but they have agreed on a mutual valuation.
So you don't have to argue over how many ducks equal a goat, you both agree that a goat = equals *money and a duck =*money. So if I don't have any ducks but I want your goat and you agree that the pieces of paper I hold are worth your goat...we make a deal.
The paper only holds the value you give it...because in the end, I have a goat and you just have a handful of paper.

Congratulations! You understand the concept of "currency".
So in my congratulatory speech, how should I address that one form of currency is better than another?


You are confusing currency and specie with financial instruments and accounts. They're all part of the same system-an economy. That's why you don't get a sack of gold on payday instead of a check, or a direct deposit instead of a check. And why you don't need to show up at a real property closing with a dump truck full of coins, or pay a bill to a vendor on the other side of the country with an extra $.50 for a stamp or with an app on your phone.

Seriously-these are all good things because they are backed by a government and the regulations, central bank, and rule of law that comes with that. Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies sound great when libertarians are sitting around sniffing their own intellectual farts, but at the most practical level they are nothing more than IOUs from anonymous sources (i.e. worthless) or gift certificates for human trafficking, arms dealing, drug dealing, or any other transaction where you need to steer clear of OFAC, Interpol, or government-owned or operated banks.
 
2017-09-13 09:27:14 PM  
Pretty funny how the idiots down at AnimeCon were making the same arguments: "Your Motoko Kusanagi statues have no value."  You stupid asshole, your Kota Izumi and Card Captor Sakura statues are only worth money because the U.S. government declared them a form of currency.  They have no intrinsic worth.

I give it about ten years before "Motokocoin" is the approved form of barter in most countries around the world.  But go ahead and hold onto your toy statues, bet they make you feel big, lol.
 
2017-09-13 09:33:03 PM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: So like, 10 bitcoins?


How much in Monopoly Money?
 
2017-09-13 09:53:30 PM  

IlGreven: MaudlinMutantMollusk: So like, 10 bitcoins?

How much in Monopoly Money?


Schrute Bucks is my preferred form of currency. Stanley Nickels lack the proper backing.
 
2017-09-13 10:07:44 PM  

Wookie_Jesus: ...And the dollar is any different? The only value in a U.S. dollar is the belief that someone values it as much as you do.


Short answer? Yes.
 
2017-09-13 10:16:44 PM  
I mentioned in the other thread, Bitcoin is down 10% or more in the last 2 weeks, but still up 30% since the end of July, and 500% since this time last year.  The media loves to report when it goes down, but almost never when it goes up.

Bitcoin is very volatile.  After a large run up of any security (currency, stock, etc.)  there will usually be a pullback.  This is not really unusual or unexpected.  I called it a couple weeks ago, sold some of my coins and bought them back today.

The people calling cryptocurrencies valueless don't really seem to understand economics and currencies. There are a lot of use cases for crypto.  If nothing else, they will eventually make things like western union and bank transfers obsolete.  Whether they have any value past that remains to be seen.
 
2017-09-13 10:34:13 PM  
r/bitcoin two weeks ago:
i.imgur.comView Full Size


r/bitcoin today
i.redditmedia.comView Full Size
 
2017-09-13 10:51:00 PM  
Bitcoin's strong growth in the prior year is driven almost exclusively by new demand.

Extortionware is the new driving force. Tens of thousands of computers getting encrypted with a ransom notes that require BC is driving a lot of people into the market.

If that gets worse - or a new type of crime involving it goes mainstream - BC will rebound.
 
2017-09-13 11:00:46 PM  
Forget your fiat currency!   Gold will always hold its value because people like the shiny!  When the world is in the toilet, people will gladly trade water or nutrition for gold because shiny!
media.tumblr.comView Full Size
 
2017-09-13 11:03:20 PM  

Wookie_Jesus: ...And the dollar is any different? The only value in a U.S. dollar is the belief that someone values it as much as you do.


Something something History something doomed to repeat something.

img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2017-09-13 11:07:26 PM  

Lord Bear: Bitcoin is very volatile. After a large run up of any security (currency, stock, etc.) there will usually be a pullback. This is not really unusual or unexpected. I called it a couple weeks ago, sold some of my coins and bought them back today.


The Chinese have moved to ban cyptocurrency exchanges.

Sell, Mortimer, Sell.
 
2017-09-13 11:33:28 PM  

BullBearMS: Lord Bear: Bitcoin is very volatile. After a large run up of any security (currency, stock, etc.) there will usually be a pullback. This is not really unusual or unexpected. I called it a couple weeks ago, sold some of my coins and bought them back today.

The Chinese have moved to ban cyptocurrency exchanges.

Sell, Mortimer, Sell.


Um, no.  There is a random fake news story saying China is going to ban bitcoin every few months.  In most cases this is fake news, causes bitcoin to crash a bit, and then recovers a few days later.  This time around there are some new regulations coming in, but its not being banned at all.  Its not a big deal.
 
2017-09-13 11:36:51 PM  

madgonad: Bitcoin's strong growth in the prior year is driven almost exclusively by new demand.

Extortionware is the new driving force. Tens of thousands of computers getting encrypted with a ransom notes that require BC is driving a lot of people into the market.

If that gets worse - or a new type of crime involving it goes mainstream - BC will rebound.


The ransomware attacks this summer managed to get around $100,000 in bitcoin.  The bitcoin market has gone up billions this summer.  Ransomware using bitcoin has almost nothing to do with ransomware, other than maybe getting bitcoin some more exposure.

Contrary to popular belief, bitcoin is fairly traceable.  This makes it only marginally useful for black market and criminal stuff.
 
2017-09-13 11:45:23 PM  

Wookie_Jesus: ...And the dollar is any different? The only value in a U.S. dollar is the belief that someone values it as much as you do.


That's literally the only value in anything.
 
2017-09-13 11:55:42 PM  

Lord Bear: I mentioned in the other thread, Bitcoin is down 10% or more in the last 2 weeks, but still up 30% since the end of July, and 500% since this time last year.  The media loves to report when it goes down, but almost never when it goes up.

Bitcoin is very volatile.  After a large run up of any security (currency, stock, etc.)  there will usually be a pullback.  This is not really unusual or unexpected.  I called it a couple weeks ago, sold some of my coins and bought them back today.

The people calling cryptocurrencies valueless don't really seem to understand economics and currencies. There are a lot of use cases for crypto.  If nothing else, they will eventually make things like western union and bank transfers obsolete.  Whether they have any value past that remains to be seen.


Crypto =/= BitCoin
 
2017-09-14 12:04:18 AM  

Mike_LowELL: Pretty funny how the idiots down at AnimeCon were making the same arguments: "Your Motoko Kusanagi statues have no value."  You stupid asshole, your Kota Izumi and Card Captor Sakura statues are only worth money because the U.S. government declared them a form of currency.  They have no intrinsic worth.

I give it about ten years before "Motokocoin" is the approved form of barter in most countries around the world.  But go ahead and hold onto your toy statues, bet they make you feel big, lol.


But if they are currency are they more or less valuable after hot glue?
 
2017-09-14 12:04:48 AM  
I wonder if it would be better if dollar bills said "Backed by the full force of the US military".
 
2017-09-14 12:07:08 AM  

tootse: Lord Bear: I mentioned in the other thread, Bitcoin is down 10% or more in the last 2 weeks, but still up 30% since the end of July, and 500% since this time last year.  The media loves to report when it goes down, but almost never when it goes up.

Bitcoin is very volatile.  After a large run up of any security (currency, stock, etc.)  there will usually be a pullback.  This is not really unusual or unexpected.  I called it a couple weeks ago, sold some of my coins and bought them back today.

The people calling cryptocurrencies valueless don't really seem to understand economics and currencies. There are a lot of use cases for crypto.  If nothing else, they will eventually make things like western union and bank transfers obsolete.  Whether they have any value past that remains to be seen.

Crypto =/= BitCoin


Um, Bitcoin is a cryptocurrency.  Its the biggest by far, by marketshare, and currently the most useful in the real world.
 
2017-09-14 12:15:56 AM  

mikefinch: But if they are currency are they more or less valuable after hot glue?


i.imgur.comView Full Size
 
2017-09-14 12:19:31 AM  

Lord Bear: tootse: Lord Bear: I mentioned in the other thread, Bitcoin is down 10% or more in the last 2 weeks, but still up 30% since the end of July, and 500% since this time last year.  The media loves to report when it goes down, but almost never when it goes up.

Bitcoin is very volatile.  After a large run up of any security (currency, stock, etc.)  there will usually be a pullback.  This is not really unusual or unexpected.  I called it a couple weeks ago, sold some of my coins and bought them back today.

The people calling cryptocurrencies valueless don't really seem to understand economics and currencies. There are a lot of use cases for crypto.  If nothing else, they will eventually make things like western union and bank transfers obsolete.  Whether they have any value past that remains to be seen.

Crypto =/= BitCoin

Um, Bitcoin is a cryptocurrency.  Its the biggest by far, by marketshare, and currently the most useful in the real world.


Blockchain is the technology that crypto currencies are based on. It is this technology that will make western union, etc.... either obsolete or more efficient. While BitCoin and other crypto-currencies use this technology, if and when banks start using it, they will most definitely not be using BitCoin, but their own version of book-keeping/ledgers based on a distributed blockchain.
 
2017-09-14 12:21:41 AM  

Lord Bear: tootse: Lord Bear: I mentioned in the other thread, Bitcoin is down 10% or more in the last 2 weeks, but still up 30% since the end of July, and 500% since this time last year.  The media loves to report when it goes down, but almost never when it goes up.

Bitcoin is very volatile.  After a large run up of any security (currency, stock, etc.)  there will usually be a pullback.  This is not really unusual or unexpected.  I called it a couple weeks ago, sold some of my coins and bought them back today.

The people calling cryptocurrencies valueless don't really seem to understand economics and currencies. There are a lot of use cases for crypto.  If nothing else, they will eventually make things like western union and bank transfers obsolete.  Whether they have any value past that remains to be seen.

Crypto =/= BitCoin

Um, Bitcoin is a cryptocurrency.  Its the biggest by far, by marketshare, and currently the most useful in the real world.


Can I buy groceries at the corner store with Bitcoin? Pay my kids tuition? How about my mortgage? or health insurance? Shiat, I must not be living in the real world.
 
2017-09-14 02:56:54 AM  

Wookie_Jesus: ...And the dollar is any different? The only value in a U.S. dollar is the belief that someone values it as much as you do.


Well, actually the dollar is primarily backed up by an incredibly powerful blue water Navy, an Air Force whose primary competition is the Navy, and an economy that wraps all around the world, binding former enemies into a solid logistics chains. Also, drug cartels are huge fans of American currency.

So that might create a bit of a difference between the two currencies. Full faith and credit of the United States government means something as long as we can reach around the world with either our military or our money to help or bring down or isolate others.
 
2017-09-14 05:16:06 AM  
Absolutely catastrophic.
img.fark.netView Full Size

In other news, video cards are affordable again....
 
2017-09-14 07:00:38 AM  
Dunning-Krugerrands
 
2017-09-14 07:40:34 AM  
One part of me wonders if Bitcoin was started by the CIA as a way to convince  illegal activity to put all their funds into the crypto currency knowing they could wipe it all out with a good built computer virus.

/seriously I don't think that but if bitcoin suddenly got wiped from the face of the earth and it was revealed that was why it wouldn't shock me.
 
2017-09-14 08:11:18 AM  

Wookie_Jesus: ...And the dollar is any different? The only value in a U.S. dollar is the belief that someone values it as much as you do.


The value of Fiat Currency comes from the trust you have in the entity backing it up. I tend to trust the US government to back the dollar up. What is there to back bitcoins ?
 
2017-09-14 08:59:37 AM  

padraig: Wookie_Jesus: ...And the dollar is any different? The only value in a U.S. dollar is the belief that someone values it as much as you do.

The value of Fiat Currency comes from the trust you have in the entity backing it up. I tend to trust the US government to back the dollar up. What is there to back bitcoins ?


img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2017-09-14 09:53:06 AM  
tootse:

Can I buy groceries at the corner store with Bitcoin? Pay my kids tuition? How about my mortgage? or health insurance? Shiat, I must not be living in the real world.

It really depends where you live.  There are stores that take bitcoin in North America.  In Argentina, its become a fairly common method of trade.  Most interestingly to me is Japan.  Many stores have started to accept it there.  Nearly any technology that gets big in Japan spreads out to the rest of the world a few years later.
 
2017-09-14 10:10:29 AM  

BolloxReader: Wookie_Jesus: ...And the dollar is any different? The only value in a U.S. dollar is the belief that someone values it as much as you do.

Well, actually the dollar is primarily backed up by an incredibly powerful blue water Navy, an Air Force whose primary competition is the Navy, and an economy that wraps all around the world, binding former enemies into a solid logistics chains. Also, drug cartels are huge fans of American currency.

So that might create a bit of a difference between the two currencies. Full faith and credit of the United States government means something as long as we can reach around the world with either our military or our money to help or bring down or isolate others.


I would gut the army, make it a training-only organization unless there was a draft, if it meant keeping the biggest navy in the world. Nothing projects power like a navy. It's been the major economic stabilizer for every great country in the world except for Egypt since the bronze age.
 
2017-09-14 10:13:07 AM  

Russ1642: The problem with Bitcoin is calling it a currency. It's a highly volatile security.


Not so much a security as a collectable.
 
2017-09-14 10:19:54 AM  

dirkfunk: BolloxReader: Wookie_Jesus:
I would gut the army, make it a training-only organization unless there was a draft, if it meant keeping the biggest navy in the world. Nothing projects power like a navy. It's been the major economic stabilizer for every great country in the world except for Egypt since the bronze age.


The Egyptians had a navy as well. The Egyptian empire would have been impossible without a command of the Nile. They had boats and ships of all sizes to move armies and material along it. Ships were so important Egyptian royalty was buried with "Solar" ships to carry them to the afterlife.
 
2017-09-14 10:21:32 AM  

Wookie_Jesus: ...And the dollar is any different? The only value in a U.S. dollar is the belief that someone values it as much as you do.


Yeah, but that someone is the government of the largest GDP country on Earth.  It's used by those 300 million people, is the most traded currency on the planet, multiple other currencies peg their value to it, and you can spend/exchange it almost anywhere freely.

Bitcoin has slightly more use than cereal box tops.  Most of the circulating coins are used in the illicit market, massive amounts so it are closely held by just a few people, and its value is highly volatile.  In addition, it's backed by... what, exactly?  The faith of small subset of the current technology space and a lot of wind.

Right now, Bitcoin acts far more like a stock than a currency.  It's hard to exchange for other currencies, it's hard to use, has extremely limited utility in day-to-day activities, and has no material or social backing of note.  Could it get to be something of significant strength?  Sure.  It has a long, long way to go.
 
2017-09-14 11:15:44 AM  

Evil Twin Skippy: dirkfunk: BolloxReader: Wookie_Jesus:
I would gut the army, make it a training-only organization unless there was a draft, if it meant keeping the biggest navy in the world. Nothing projects power like a navy. It's been the major economic stabilizer for every great country in the world except for Egypt since the bronze age.

The Egyptians had a navy as well. The Egyptian empire would have been impossible without a command of the Nile. They had boats and ships of all sizes to move armies and material along it. Ships were so important Egyptian royalty was buried with "Solar" ships to carry them to the afterlife.


I'll grant you that the Nile, and control of the Nile by boat counts as a navy and projection of power by water. But the egyptians were notoriously ignorant about sea-travel, geography and ship building. I'd highly recommend 1177 B.C: The year civilization collapsed if you're interested in the bronze age, and how the first truly globalized economies functioned. It's a great read.
 
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