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(CNBC)   Surely, no one would argue that hurricane victims should be denied federal help to rebuild their lives, right? CNBC: Hold my margin calls   ( cnbc.com) divider line
    More: Asinine, Insurance, Starwood Capital, tax dollars, Tropical cyclone, estate mogul Barry, real estate, federal flood insurance, National Flood Insurance Program  
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2870 clicks; posted to Politics » on 13 Sep 2017 at 4:20 PM (18 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2017-09-13 01:39:47 PM  
"The people who live in the mountains of Denver - should they be paying through their tax dollars for relief to people whose homes got wiped out" in hurricanes Irma and Harvey?"

The people who live paycheck to paycheck across the country, stuck in underpaid, overworked jobs - should they be paying through their lost wages and mobility for bailouts for you and your fellow robber barons?
 
2017-09-13 01:51:03 PM  
Let's see how laissez faire, the head of the Starwood Group is when it turns out one of its hotels or resorts was damaged by Harvey, Irma, or any of the storms to follow.
 
2017-09-13 01:51:44 PM  
Real estate mogul Barry Sternlicht said Wednesday people living in flood-prone areas of the country probably should not expect tax dollars to help them rebuild.

...says the guy no doubt living in a glass house in Manhattan that was bailed out with Hurricane Sandy money.
 
2017-09-13 01:52:35 PM  

Prey4reign: Let's see how laissez faire, the head of the Starwood Group is when it turns out one of its hotels or resorts was damaged by Harvey, Irma, or any of the storms to follow.


FTA:  "Starwood Capital"

So, not the same as Starwood Hotels.  ;)
 
2017-09-13 01:58:47 PM  

Grand_Moff_Joseph: Prey4reign: Let's see how laissez faire, the head of the Starwood Group is when it turns out one of its hotels or resorts was damaged by Harvey, Irma, or any of the storms to follow.

FTA:  "Starwood Capital"

So, not the same as Starwood Hotels.  ;)


From the Wikipedia page for Starwood Capital:


In 1991, at the age of 31, Sternlicht launched the firm to buy apartment buildings that were being sold by the Resolution Trust Corporation, created by the federal government to hold and liquidate the real estate assets owned by failed banks after the savings and loan crisis.[2] Sternlicht was able to raise $20 million from the families of William Bernard Ziff, Jr. and Carter Burden of New York to fund these purchases.[3]
In 1993, the firm sold the apartment portfolio to real estate magnate Sam Zell in exchange for a 20% stake in Equity Residential, which turned out to be a very profitable investment.[4]
In 1994, in partnership with Goldman Sachs, the firm purchased Westin Hotels & Resorts in a $561 million transaction.[3]
In January 1995, the company purchased Hotel Investors Trust, an almost-bankrupt real estate investment trust.[5]
In 2005, the firm acquired Groupe du Louvre, which owned crystal maker Baccarat.[2] Groupe de Louvre was sold in 2015, but Baccarat was retained by Starwood.[6]
In 2009, a consortium led by Starwood Capital bought 40% of the loan portfolio of Corus Bank, a failed company.[7]
In 2010, the firm lost a bankruptcy auction to buy Extended Stay Hotels. Starwood unsuccessfully filed an objection against the sale to Centerbridge Partners with the bankruptcy court in Manhattan.[8]
In 2010, Starwood, a secured creditor, received a majority ownership stake in Riviera Holdings, owners of the Riviera hotel and casino in Las Vegas, Nevada and Riviera Black Hawk in Black Hawk, Colorado, after a bankruptcy reorganization.[9]
In 2012, the company began construction on a chain of hotels under the name of Baccarat Hotels and Resorts which feature crystal chandeliers from Baccarat.[10] In 2015, the firm sold its flagship Baccarat hotel in New York City.[11]
In 2012, Starwood partnered with Toll Brothers to develop the Pierhouse at Brooklyn Bridge Park.[12]
In December 2013, Starwood Global Opportunity Fund IX, in partnership with Vencom, bought 7 retail properties from the Swedish retail group Kooperativa Förbundet for 3.9 billion Swedish kronor, or $593.3 million, and the properties were all sold in 2016 and 2017.[13][14]
Between 2013 and 2014, Starwood acquired three British hospitality groups: De Vere Group for GB£232 million,[15] Four-Pillars Hotels for GB£90 million,[16] and Principal Hayley Group for GB£360 million.[17]
In February 2014, Starwood Property Trust spun off Starwood Waypoint Residential Trust, a single-family rental real estate investment trust.[18]
In March 2014, the firm acquired a stake in the A.S. Roma football club.[19]
In January 2016, SWRT was merged with Colony American Homes in a $7.7 billion merger, creating Colony Starwood Homes.[20]

Looks like an awful lot of buying and selling and investing in premium real estate ventures.  I wonder how many of them lie within say 50 miles of a beach where they could be damaged by a hurricane?
 
2017-09-13 01:59:41 PM  

Grand_Moff_Joseph: "The people who live in the mountains of Denver - should they be paying through their tax dollars for relief to people whose homes got wiped out" in hurricanes Irma and Harvey?"

The people who live paycheck to paycheck across the country, stuck in underpaid, overworked jobs - should they be paying through their lost wages and mobility for bailouts for you and your fellow robber barons?


It should also be noted that Boulder and that entire region got severely flooded a couple years back and I didn't hear people in Texas whining that they had to pay for their disaster relief.

EVERYONE is prone to natural disasters.  If it's not hurricanes it's earthquakes.  If it's not tornados it's wildfires.  if it's not drought it's floods.  If it's not deadly heatwaves it's horrible blizzards or icestorms.  Everyone has the opportunity to experience devastation in their region.  This widespread tendancy of jackholes telling others in the US who are undergoing devastation themselves to go fark themselves is the single most un-American thing I have ever witnessed.
 
2017-09-13 02:00:19 PM  
These are the same people who are worried that raising the minimum wage to something that you could possibly live on will have a minor impact on next quarters returns?

Fark them. With a rusty fork
 
2017-09-13 02:34:11 PM  

Ambivalence: EVERYONE is prone to natural disasters.  If it's not hurricanes it's earthquakes.  If it's not tornados it's wildfires.  if it's not drought it's floods.  If it's not deadly heatwaves it's horrible blizzards or icestorms.  Everyone has the opportunity to experience devastation in their region.  This widespread tendancy of jackholes telling others in the US who are undergoing devastation themselves to go fark themselves is the single most un-American thing I have ever witnessed.


I don't know if you were around here after Katrina, but the blithe consensus of the Fark brain trust was that New Orleans should be abandoned and the city should be wholly relocated to somewhere that doesn't flood.

Yep, a port city that never floods. I never got a clear answer how supposed to work exactly. Nevermind the ridonkulous costs of relocating an entire city and metro area of over a million people.
 
2017-09-13 02:34:31 PM  

Prey4reign: From the Wikipedia page for Starwood Capital:


Ah!  I did not realize they were that closely related.  I stand corrected then.

/my apologies
 
2017-09-13 02:47:16 PM  
Sits in her home in the "mountains of Denver" and is puzzled.
 
2017-09-13 02:50:52 PM  
How about us little guys bailing out financial firms when they take unnecessary risks?  I bet that's OK.
 
2017-09-13 03:20:58 PM  
A charitable interpretation of Sternlicht's remarks is that no, subsidizing Florida Man's insistence on living in a hurricane-prone area doesn't make much sense financially for the rest of us (whether we pay through higher taxes for disaster relief or through higher insurance premiums). He's not wrong as far as that goes (just an asshole).

More probably, though, he sees hurricanes as nature's way of forcing people who can't afford to stay at Starwood hotels to get out of the way of his next beach resort project.

Prey4reign: Let's see how laissez faire, the head of the Starwood Group is when it turns out one of its hotels or resorts was damaged by Harvey, Irma, or any of the storms to follow.


For the Starwood Group and similar firms, insurance of its own buildings is a cost of doing business. It's the insurers who would have been farked in that case.
 
2017-09-13 03:50:06 PM  

gilgigamesh: Ambivalence: EVERYONE is prone to natural disasters.  If it's not hurricanes it's earthquakes.  If it's not tornados it's wildfires.  if it's not drought it's floods.  If it's not deadly heatwaves it's horrible blizzards or icestorms.  Everyone has the opportunity to experience devastation in their region.  This widespread tendancy of jackholes telling others in the US who are undergoing devastation themselves to go fark themselves is the single most un-American thing I have ever witnessed.

I don't know if you were around here after Katrina, but the blithe consensus of the Fark brain trust was that New Orleans should be abandoned and the city should be wholly relocated to somewhere that doesn't flood.

Yep, a port city that never floods. I never got a clear answer how supposed to work exactly. Nevermind the ridonkulous costs of relocating an entire city and metro area of over a million people.


My opinion was (and still is) that homes shouldn't be built BELOW SEA LEVEL on the coast. I'm all about disaster aid, but rebuilding in some places is just dumb.  In those places it doesn't even take a hurricane, just one engineering brain fart.
 
2017-09-13 04:00:12 PM  

doyner: My opinion was (and still is) that homes shouldn't be built BELOW SEA LEVEL on the coast. I'm all about disaster aid, but rebuilding in some places is just dumb.  In those places it doesn't even take a hurricane, just one engineering brain fart.


Here's a fun fact: the bulk of expensive property in New Orleans is not below sea level. Uptown, the port, the Quarter and the lake front are all built on a natural levee and are well above sea level. The middle part between the lake and the river is below sea level, and to an extent I agree with you. Fortunately, applying for FEMA aid required people in these zones to build above base flood elevation.

I am in one of these areas, and I built up 11 feet.
 
2017-09-13 04:24:08 PM  
During Katrina, theyaired a segment on which insurance companies would profit off the cleanup efforts in New Orleans. Did I mention this was DURING the hurricane's worst moments? There was a small corner of live footage of stranded people and the Superdome interior just to the right of the crawl of stocks, and the host actually had the gall to say, "We don't mean to sound callous..."

That network is TVG for sociopaths.
 
2017-09-13 04:24:24 PM  

Prey4reign: Grand_Moff_Joseph: Prey4reign: Let's see how laissez faire, the head of the Starwood Group is when it turns out one of its hotels or resorts was damaged by Harvey, Irma, or any of the storms to follow.

FTA:  "Starwood Capital"

So, not the same as Starwood Hotels.  ;)

From the Wikipedia page for Starwood Capital:


In 1991, at the age of 31, Sternlicht launched the firm to buy apartment buildings that were being sold by the Resolution Trust Corporation, created by the federal government to hold and liquidate the real estate assets owned by failed banks after the savings and loan crisis.[2] Sternlicht was able to raise $20 million from the families of William Bernard Ziff, Jr. and Carter Burden of New York to fund these purchases.[3]
In 1993, the firm sold the apartment portfolio to real estate magnate Sam Zell in exchange for a 20% stake in Equity Residential, which turned out to be a very profitable investment.[4]
In 1994, in partnership with Goldman Sachs, the firm purchased Westin Hotels & Resorts in a $561 million transaction.[3]
In January 1995, the company purchased Hotel Investors Trust, an almost-bankrupt real estate investment trust.[5]
In 2005, the firm acquired Groupe du Louvre, which owned crystal maker Baccarat.[2] Groupe de Louvre was sold in 2015, but Baccarat was retained by Starwood.[6]
In 2009, a consortium led by Starwood Capital bought 40% of the loan portfolio of Corus Bank, a failed company.[7]
In 2010, the firm lost a bankruptcy auction to buy Extended Stay Hotels. Starwood unsuccessfully filed an objection against the sale to Centerbridge Partners with the bankruptcy court in Manhattan.[8]
In 2010, Starwood, a secured creditor, received a majority ownership stake in Riviera Holdings, owners of the Riviera hotel and casino in Las Vegas, Nevada and Riviera Black Hawk in Black Hawk, Colorado, after a bankruptcy reorganization.[9]
In 2012, the company began construction on a chain of hotels under the name of Baccarat Hotels and Resorts which feature crystal chandeliers from Baccarat.[10] In 2015, the firm sold its flagship Baccarat hotel in New York City.[11]
In 2012, Starwood partnered with Toll Brothers to develop the Pierhouse at Brooklyn Bridge Park.[12]
In December 2013, Starwood Global Opportunity Fund IX, in partnership with Vencom, bought 7 retail properties from the Swedish retail group Kooperativa Förbundet for 3.9 billion Swedish kronor, or $593.3 million, and the properties were all sold in 2016 and 2017.[13][14]
Between 2013 and 2014, Starwood acquired three British hospitality groups: De Vere Group for GB£232 million,[15] Four-Pillars Hotels for GB£90 million,[16] and Principal Hayley Group for GB£360 million.[17]
In February 2014, Starwood Property Trust spun off Starwood Waypoint Residential Trust, a single-family rental real estate investment trust.[18]
In March 2014, the firm acquired a stake in the A.S. Roma football club.[19]
In January 2016, SWRT was merged with Colony American Homes in a $7.7 billion merger, creating Colony Starwood Homes.[20]

Looks like an awful lot of buying and selling and investing in premium real estate ventures.  I wonder how many of them lie within say 50 miles of a beach where they could be damaged by a hurricane?


+1
Would read again.
 
2017-09-13 04:25:34 PM  
FTFA:

"The people who live in the mountains of Denver - should they be paying through their tax dollars for relief to people whose homes got wiped out" in hurricanes Irma and Harvey? "

I believe that federal FEMA funds helped the people living in the mountains above Denver after the devastating fires some time ago, so yes.
 
2017-09-13 04:27:10 PM  
Real estate mogul Barry Sternlicht said Wednesday people living in flood-prone areas of the country probably should not expect tax dollars to help them rebuild.

Of course not. If homeownera can't rebuild, real estate moguls can buy the land on the cheap.
 
2017-09-13 04:27:28 PM  
"Move to where the jobs are" they said. "But not the ports and low laying coastal cities!"

Go fark yourselves.
 
2017-09-13 04:27:57 PM  
They should pay for these people to relocate away from disaster prone areas and eventually allow the areas to be turned into national parks.
 
2017-09-13 04:30:35 PM  
I've never imagined that the feds step in to help individuals.  Who imagined that the feds step in to help individuals? My in-laws's farm once got singled out by a tornado. Blam. Down went 3 barns. Did the feds step in to rebuild their barns? The feds rebuild roads, bridges, infrastructure, hospitals, public buildings, etc. Insurance and private funds rebuild the rest. That's been my little private understanding of the process. The feds just voted for 3-4 billion in Harvey funds. Not 180 billion in Harvey funds.
 
2017-09-13 04:31:23 PM  

dwrash: They should pay for these people to relocate away from disaster prone areas and eventually allow the areas to be turned into national parks.


What areas aren't prone to some sort of natural disaster?
 
2017-09-13 04:32:53 PM  

Diogenes: How about us little guys bailing out financial firms when they take unnecessary risks?  I bet that's OK.


Too big to flail.
 
2017-09-13 04:34:41 PM  

Archidude: dwrash: They should pay for these people to relocate away from disaster prone areas and eventually allow the areas to be turned into national parks.

What areas aren't prone to some sort of natural disaster?


Troy, NY, south-eastern side. Near the Emma Willard school.
 
2017-09-13 04:34:54 PM  

Ambivalence: It should also be noted that Boulder and that entire region got severely flooded a couple years back and I didn't hear people in Texas whining that they had to pay for their disaster relief.


Probably because floods alone are such common things that they don't make the news unless attached to a hurricane, so Texans probably don't even know about it.

/Thus, why homeowner's insurance doesn't normally cover flood damage: The dirty little secret that EVERYWHERE is a flood plain if it rains hard enough.
 
2017-09-13 04:36:47 PM  

Archidude: dwrash: They should pay for these people to relocate away from disaster prone areas and eventually allow the areas to be turned into national parks.

What areas aren't prone to some sort of natural disaster?


Especially since we continue to fark up the climate, making the natural disasters larger, worse, and more frequent.
 
2017-09-13 04:38:08 PM  

RINO: Real estate mogul Barry Sternlicht said Wednesday people living in flood-prone areas of the country probably should not expect tax dollars to help them rebuild.

Of course not. If homeownera can't rebuild, real estate moguls can buy the land on the cheap.


Yup. Those beach front mobile home parks in Key West are never coming back
 
2017-09-13 04:39:38 PM  
img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2017-09-13 04:41:00 PM  

Archidude: dwrash: They should pay for these people to relocate away from disaster prone areas and eventually allow the areas to be turned into national parks.

What areas aren't prone to some sort of natural disaster?


Was just about to ask that. It seems like every time there's a natural disaster we have some arselords spouting the same argument. "People should just move to somewhere that doesn't have [thing that just happened]! Why should we have to pay for others' stupidity?!"

Of course, when it's something that's happening to them it's all "GIMME MY FREE MONEY!!!"
 
2017-09-13 04:43:04 PM  

EyeballKid: During Katrina, theyaired a segment on which insurance companies would profit off the cleanup efforts in New Orleans. Did I mention this was DURING the hurricane's worst moments? There was a small corner of live footage of stranded people and the Superdome interior just to the right of the crawl of stocks, and the host actually had the gall to say, "We don't mean to sound callous..."

That network is TVG for sociopaths.


Let's not forget CNBC is the home of professional shiatwizard Rick Santilli, who's whiny screed about "losers" during the housing bubble helped create the Tealiban.
 
2017-09-13 04:44:06 PM  
I actually agree with the notion that people who build in overly risky areas should not be subsidized by people like me, who buy houses out of flood plains and away from areas that will inevitably suffer from climate change.
 
2017-09-13 04:44:14 PM  
substandard building codes, inappropriately zoned areas for residential homes (or anything really), permitted construction and legal sales BUT they bought their tickets!

/no they bought into a dream and everyone who profited off developing (or lack thereof) these areas should be rounded up and slapped in the face and kicked in the ass
 
2017-09-13 04:45:12 PM  

dwrash: They should pay for these people to relocate away from disaster prone areas and eventually allow the areas to be turned into national parks.


So you support government telling you where to live?
 
2017-09-13 04:45:26 PM  

Prey4reign: In 1991, at the age of 31... Sternlicht was able to raise $20 million from the families of William Bernard Ziff, Jr. and Carter Burden of New York to fund these purchases.[3]


He "was able to raise $20 million" from just two families? That sounds a lot less like some super-savant-rainmaker and a whole lot more like he's a rich asshole with wealthy connections.
 
2017-09-13 04:46:37 PM  
I actually agree here.  There should be active measures to discourage people from building in areas that flood routinely.  The most obvious ones are denial of governmental aid to rebuild once flooded out (or, to give them aid, but with strings attached that prevent them from using it to rebuild in flood-prone areas), and to price flood insurance to accurately cover flood payouts.

If you are in an area that floods every decade or so, the government shouldn't subsidize your poor choice of housing location.
 
2017-09-13 04:47:50 PM  

coffemonster: I actually agree with the notion that people who build in overly risky areas should not be subsidized by people like me, who buy houses out of flood plains and away from areas that will inevitably suffer from climate change.


So, now you want to define a policy which decides who gets any federal aid dollars based on "risky" behaviors?  Good luck...I will await your success.
 
2017-09-13 04:48:16 PM  

xalres: Archidude: dwrash: They should pay for these people to relocate away from disaster prone areas and eventually allow the areas to be turned into national parks.

What areas aren't prone to some sort of natural disaster?

Was just about to ask that. It seems like every time there's a natural disaster we have some arselords spouting the same argument. "People should just move to somewhere that doesn't have [thing that just happened]! Why should we have to pay for others' stupidity?!"

Of course, when it's something that's happening to them it's all "GIMME MY FREE MONEY!!!"


The issue isn't in areas that flood every century.

The issue is in areas that flood every decade.
 
2017-09-13 04:48:33 PM  

Nuff Said McFarky: EyeballKid: During Katrina, theyaired a segment on which insurance companies would profit off the cleanup efforts in New Orleans. Did I mention this was DURING the hurricane's worst moments? There was a small corner of live footage of stranded people and the Superdome interior just to the right of the crawl of stocks, and the host actually had the gall to say, "We don't mean to sound callous..."

That network is TVG for sociopaths.

Let's not forget CNBC is the home of professional shiatwizard Rick Santilli, who's whiny screed about "losers" during the housing bubble helped create the Tealiban.


And let's also not forget that when Jim Cramer was sacrificed on the Daily Show set by John Stewart, he was only appearing in the place of Santelli, who was supposed to be the guest that night but came down with a severe case of cowardice.

/The More You Know
 
2017-09-13 04:51:53 PM  
this guy is an asshole, but buried in there is some sort of point- taxpayers should not be paying to rebuild homes that will just be wiped out in 10 years when the next storm comes through.

I would say that we shouldn't pay to rebuild a lot of these homes and businesses. even if you deny that climate change is a thing, many of the coastal locations and even inland locations (particularly in houston) were built in areas that are not sustainable under normal circumstances. I would say it would be wisest to functionally pay these people not to rebuild- if they want the federal aid, they can have it on the agreement that they move to a new location outside of common flood plains and flood prone areas. basically, buy them a new home in a safer spot.
 
2017-09-13 04:52:09 PM  

Geotpf: to give them aid, but with strings attached


I bet you are one of those who think people who get food stamps use them for lobster and cigarettes
 
2017-09-13 04:53:07 PM  
Rand Paul says we shouldn't give them any money.
 
2017-09-13 04:53:14 PM  

mcsiegs: coffemonster: I actually agree with the notion that people who build in overly risky areas should not be subsidized by people like me, who buy houses out of flood plains and away from areas that will inevitably suffer from climate change.

So, now you want to define a policy which decides who gets any federal aid dollars based on "risky" behaviors?  Good luck...I will await your success.


wouldn't we then have to stop subsidizing farms, and no bailouts, and what else?
 
2017-09-13 04:54:24 PM  
For people who a so good at gaming the system finance guys sure have a poor understanding of it, given the scope and extent of the damage denial of rebuilding funds would create a massive hole in GDP exacerbating what we've lost due to interrupted economic activity. Now what he's probably thinking; "I bet we could get that real estate for cheap on duress sales." and/or "why should corporations (even government backed ones created explicitly for that purpose) be forced to honor their contractual obligations, why that could effect next quarters earning statments and my bonus!"

That said I do support buyouts and reclaimation after a certain threshold is reached.
 
2017-09-13 04:55:10 PM  
 
2017-09-13 04:55:43 PM  

mcsiegs: Geotpf: to give them aid, but with strings attached

I bet you are one of those who think people who get food stamps use them for lobster and cigarettes


No, I think aid for people who live in excessively flood prone areas should be the government buys them out and gives them money to buy land to build in non-flood prone areas, leaving the original plot of land vacant.
 
2017-09-13 04:55:53 PM  

NateAsbestos: dwrash: They should pay for these people to relocate away from disaster prone areas and eventually allow the areas to be turned into national parks.

So you support government telling you where to live?


see: "zoning"
 
2017-09-13 04:56:29 PM  
I would.
Successfully, too.
 
2017-09-13 04:57:45 PM  
Hiring Jefferson Beauregard Sessions was just a coincidence.
 
2017-09-13 04:57:56 PM  

loonatic112358: mcsiegs: coffemonster: I actually agree with the notion that people who build in overly risky areas should not be subsidized by people like me, who buy houses out of flood plains and away from areas that will inevitably suffer from climate change.

So, now you want to define a policy which decides who gets any federal aid dollars based on "risky" behaviors?  Good luck...I will await your success.

wouldn't we then have to stop subsidizing farms, and no bailouts, and what else?


both commercial and investment banks
drilling for oil
road building
health care
communications
exports
 
2017-09-13 04:59:39 PM  

fernt: NateAsbestos: dwrash: They should pay for these people to relocate away from disaster prone areas and eventually allow the areas to be turned into national parks.

So you support government telling you where to live?

see: "zoning"


The issue with zoning is that it is local, but disaster bailout money is Federal.  So, you get results where the local government is completely fine with you building in that area that floods every decade.
 
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