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(Fox News)   What's next, protesting monuments of Thomas Jeffer...Wait, we're actually doing this? Okay, fine   ( foxnews.com) divider line
    More: Interesting, Racism, white supremacists, Father Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Monument, Confederate general Robert, Thomas Jefferson, black Tuesday evening, Ku Klux Klan  
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5014 clicks; posted to Main » on 13 Sep 2017 at 3:20 PM (18 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2017-09-13 01:34:07 PM  
And while we are at it can we get that horrible Lou Reed song "Walk on the Wild Side" banned from all airplay?

I mean, it actually says colored girls.  That is really offensive.
 
2017-09-13 01:38:57 PM  
Oh, and speaking of offensive music, here's another slave owner we should not be celebrating.

Let's clean this all up now while we are good and motivated.
 
2017-09-13 01:44:46 PM  
This is effing appalling. This was a man who lived according to the customs of his time. Condemning him and protesting his statues because he kept slaves as out of a basic economic reality to keep his family lands productive and viable is elitist and hateful of humanity and our own history. What next? Calls to ban Democracy because Greeks invented Democracy and Man Boy love was a-ok by them?
 
2017-09-13 02:33:57 PM  
img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2017-09-13 02:58:33 PM  
 
2017-09-13 03:12:38 PM  
Jefferson is vulnerable to criticism in a way that a lot of the other Founding Fathers aren't. Unlike George Washington, who freed all of his slaves upon his death, Thomas Jefferson only freed a handful of his hundreds of slaves in his will, almost all of whom were either his own children or other members of the Hemings family. This resulted in stuff like Joe Fosset, Sally Hemings' nephew, being freed himself upon Jefferson's death, but watching his entire family be sold at auction to several different owners.

He talked the talk when it came to speaking out about the evils of slavery, but unlike many other plantation owners in Virginia at the time, he freed almost none of his slaves while he was alive, primarily because he was in constant debt from his overly lavish lifestyle, a price that was eventually paid by the hides of the people he owned. Many other slave owners at the time conducted themselves far more humanely and did more to end slavery than Jefferson did. And considering that he was one of the most powerful men in the country at the time, his role in that institution must be held to account. Even as a man "living according to the customs of his time," he could have, and should have done far more. Especially as someone who was supposedly against the practice.

Also, not even the Fox News article is claiming that the students want the statue of Jefferson removed. The protest is in support of banning white supremacists from campus and removing Confederate plaques from the grounds. The students did hang a banner calling Jefferson a racist and a rapist. Which, given his views on the natural inferiority of the black race and banging people he owned, is fairly accurate. Even given his flaws, though, I think most people can tell the difference between a monument honoring a Founding Father and a monument honoring a person who took up arms to attack what the Founding Fathers created.
 
2017-09-13 03:15:10 PM  

HedlessChickn: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Presidents_of_the_United_States​_​who_owned_slaves


Just a heads up, that list includes a completely bullshiat mention of Abraham Lincoln based on the following rationale:

"Lincoln's father-in-law and others of the Todd family were either slave owners or slave traders. Lincoln was close to the Todds, and he and his family occasionally visited the Todd estate in Lexington."

Who knew that visiting a person's house gave you an ownership stake in their assets.
 
2017-09-13 03:22:12 PM  

Cagey B: HedlessChickn: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Presidents_of_the_United_States_​who_owned_slaves

Just a heads up, that list includes a completely bullshiat mention of Abraham Lincoln based on the following rationale:

"Lincoln's father-in-law and others of the Todd family were either slave owners or slave traders. Lincoln was close to the Todds, and he and his family occasionally visited the Todd estate in Lexington."

Who knew that visiting a person's house gave you an ownership stake in their assets.


I looked at the edit page, there's a small civil war going on about it.

It's funny.
 
2017-09-13 03:24:37 PM  
Huh, Trump was right, yet again.
 
2017-09-13 03:25:04 PM  
1.  I hold two degrees from UVA.
2.  I thought what the Nazis did on our Lawn with their tiki torches a few weeks back was abhorrent.
3.  I fully support bringing down the revisionist Jim Crow confederate statutes, as well as the stars and bars wherever they fly, because those are no more and no less than a tribute to hatred and a failed insurrection.

With that context: I want to twunt-punt these people out of Charlottesville.  There is no equivalence between Thomas Jefferson and Robert E. Lee.    Yes, Thomas Jefferson has a checkered history.  Yes, his conduct with respect to Sally Hemmings and her family was questionable, even within the mores of the time. But he contributed so much good -- objective good -- to not just the United States but all of Western Civilization that a petty display like this just trivializes not only the point these people are trying to make but the people themselves.

tl;dr version: hey snowflake asshats -- Jefferson isn't Lee.  You're not helping.
 
2017-09-13 03:25:08 PM  
I hope nobody drinks coffee, eats chocolate, bananas, owns diamonds or uses a smartphone, because the only difference is their slaves are invisible to them.
 
2017-09-13 03:25:12 PM  
False Flag!
 
2017-09-13 03:26:34 PM  

Dr.Fey: And while we are at it can we get that horrible Lou Reed song "Walk on the Wild Side" banned from all airplay?

I mean, it actually says colored girls.  That is really offensive.


Yeah, and ban the NAACP... boy talk about offensive!!! Oh, add, UNCF too!!! Bad word, bad...

Insert "Steve'sMomDoonesberrycomic.jpg" here!

PS: what will we rename Chinaman's Hat island to , on the North Shore of Oahu?
 
2017-09-13 03:26:35 PM  

Warthog: 1.  I hold two degrees from UVA.
2.  I thought what the Nazis did on our Lawn with their tiki torches a few weeks back was abhorrent.
3.  I fully support bringing down the revisionist Jim Crow confederate statutes, as well as the stars and bars wherever they fly, because those are no more and no less than a tribute to hatred and a failed insurrection.

With that context: I want to twunt-punt these people out of Charlottesville.  There is no equivalence between Thomas Jefferson and Robert E. Lee.    Yes, Thomas Jefferson has a checkered history.  Yes, his conduct with respect to Sally Hemmings and her family was questionable, even within the mores of the time. But he contributed so much good -- objective good -- to not just the United States but all of Western Civilization that a petty display like this just trivializes not only the point these people are trying to make but the people themselves.

tl;dr version: hey snowflake asshats -- Jefferson isn't Lee.  You're not helping.


They're not taking down the Jefferson statue though, FWIW.
 
2017-09-13 03:26:44 PM  

Cagey B: HedlessChickn: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Presidents_of_the_United_States_​who_owned_slaves

Just a heads up, that list includes a completely bullshiat mention of Abraham Lincoln based on the following rationale:

"Lincoln's father-in-law and others of the Todd family were either slave owners or slave traders. Lincoln was close to the Todds, and he and his family occasionally visited the Todd estate in Lexington."

Who knew that visiting a person's house gave you an ownership stake in their assets.


Just letting you know that I plan on visiting your home in the immediate future.
 
2017-09-13 03:26:45 PM  

Fano: I hope nobody drinks coffee, eats chocolate, bananas, owns diamonds or uses a smartphone, because the only difference is their slaves are invisible to them.


Or eats at McDonalds..

/not as invisible but might as well be
//you wins the interwebs this hour
 
2017-09-13 03:26:52 PM  

Fano: I hope nobody drinks coffee, eats chocolate, bananas, owns diamonds or uses a smartphone, because the only difference is their slaves are invisible to them.


it's almost like capitalism is the problem
 
2017-09-13 03:27:33 PM  
Just take all the graven images of men, women, and animals down
 
2017-09-13 03:27:56 PM  

Fano: I hope nobody drinks coffee, eats chocolate, bananas, owns diamonds or uses a smartphone, because the only difference is their slaves are invisible to them.


At least three off that list have fair trade sources available.
 
2017-09-13 03:28:56 PM  

Dr.Fey: And while we are at it can we get that horrible Lou Reed song "Walk on the Wild Side" banned from all airplay?

I mean, it actually says colored girls.  That is really offensive.


A Walk On The Wild Side
Youtube WZ88oTITMoM
 
2017-09-13 03:29:26 PM  
I think Cagey B pretty much covered it, so all I have to add is this:

Frederick Douglass vs Thomas Jefferson. Epic Rap Battles of History - Season 5
Youtube O-ZblMfZpuw
 
2017-09-13 03:30:11 PM  

Hickory-smoked: Fano: I hope nobody drinks coffee, eats chocolate, bananas, owns diamonds or uses a smartphone, because the only difference is their slaves are invisible to them.

At least three off that list have fair trade sources available.


I'm willing to leave those people off the hook.
 
2017-09-13 03:30:36 PM  
UVA rejected my application for admission so I say burn the motherfarker down.
/40 years ago
// not holding a grudge
/// yes I am
 
2017-09-13 03:30:53 PM  
Oh, and as for the article saying they couldn't reach the school for comment, here's President Sullivan's letter to students and alumni, which popped up in my inbox late this morning:


Dear alumni and friends of the University,

Last night about forty students held a demonstration on the north side of the Rotunda and as part of this demonstration, they shrouded the Jefferson statue, desecrating ground that many of us consider sacred. I strongly disagree with the protestors' decision to cover the Jefferson statue. University personnel removed the shroud. One person was arrested for public intoxication. These are the facts of the situation, regardless of what you may read in media accounts of those who have their own agenda.

Coming just one month after the August 11 torchlight march by 300 racist and anti-Semitic protesters, a march that became violent, this event has reminded us that there are critical and sometimes divisive issues related to the exercise of free expression in an inclusive community.

I would like to frame this issue somewhat differently. Thomas Jefferson was an ardent believer in freedom of expression, and he experienced plenty of abusive treatment from the newspapers of his day. He would likely not be surprised to find that when there are critical disagreements in the polity, those disagreements will find expression at his University. UVA's importance as a university is underscored by the fact that arguments about free expression, hate speech, and similar issues occur here. Sometimes these arguments are noisy.

In your own college days, many of you experienced protests and activism at UVA. The war in Vietnam, Watergate, 9/11, and many other issues have been discussed, debated, and protested at UVA. We are at another such point.  I prefer the process of discussion and debate, and the debate is happening here at UVA with a wide variety of guest speakers, panels, and other opportunities to look at underlying issues. That there is also activism should not be a surprise to any of us.

With my best wishes,

Teresa A. Sullivan
President


Contrast with her note to alumni after the Hitler Youth marched down the lawn and murdered Heather Heyer:


Dear Alumni and Friends of the University:

I know many of you are following the series of horrible events related to the "Unite the Right" rally that have transpired in Charlottesville since Friday evening.

Alt-right protestors carrying torches marched on UVA's Grounds Friday evening, attempting to intimidate bystanders and spread their message of intolerance and hate. There were several violent altercations during and after the march, and minor injuries were reported, including one University police officer who was injured while making an arrest.

During Saturday's "Unite the Right" rally in the city, there were numerous outbreaks of violence that tragically resulted in the death of a young woman and many reported injuries among protestors and counter-protestors. And two troopers with the Virginia State Police lost their lives in a helicopter crash near Charlottesville.

We extend our deepest sympathies and condolences to the family and friends of those who lost their lives, and also express our concern to those who were injured. We also recognize the emotional and psychological impact that these events may cause to members of our University and broader communities.

The University supports the First Amendment rights to free speech and peaceable assembly. Acts of violence, however, are not protected by the First Amendment. Violence and bigotry are not political positions. We strongly condemn intimidating and abhorrent behavior intended to strike fear and sow division in our community.

As a public institution, we value diversity, inclusion and mutual respect. We value an environment in which learning happens. The views of many of the groups who converged on Charlottesville are in direct contradiction with this. There were racist, anti-immigrant, homophobic and misogynistic chants. Such rhetoric is not intended to bring us together; it is intended to drive us apart.

The safety and well-being of all UVA community members is my foremost concern as president. Next weekend, thousands of new students and hundreds of new faculty and staff will arrive on our Grounds to begin a new academic term. The University will have its safety and health resources ready and available to our community.

In the days, weeks and months ahead, there will be many opportunities to discuss as a community the events of this past weekend and how our community of trust and mutual respect can come together and further demonstrate and underscore our shared values.

We will continue to uphold these values as a community and reject the ideology of intolerance and hate.

Teresa A. Sullivan
President
 
2017-09-13 03:32:27 PM  

Cagey B: The students did hang a banner calling Jefferson a racist and a rapist. Which, given his views on the natural inferiority of the black race and banging people he owned, is fairly accurate.


Nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnno.  No it's not.

I think we're treading a rather thin line trying to reinvent an 18th century politician to 21st century standards and throwing around the racist monicker like it means something doesn't help.
 
2017-09-13 03:35:01 PM  

Swampmaster: PS: what will we rename Chinaman's Hat island to , on the North Shore of Oahu?


Have you thought of Straw Hat Island?
 
2017-09-13 03:35:04 PM  
3.bp.blogspot.comView Full Size

Ha Ha! Come at me bros. Not a slave owner.
 
2017-09-13 03:35:16 PM  

Chuck87: Just take all the graven images of men, women, and animals down


I'm not a Christian.

This is not a Christian Nation.

No.
 
2017-09-13 03:35:20 PM  
Trying to start another civil war?

/smart
//very smart
///who am I kidding?
 
2017-09-13 03:35:31 PM  
What with the "Jews will not replace us" I saw the clips they were saying "You will not replace us". Whatever the hell that means.
 
2017-09-13 03:36:07 PM  

Warthog: Oh, and as for the article saying they couldn't reach the school for comment, here's President Sullivan's letter to students and alumni, which popped up in my inbox late this morning:


Dear alumni and friends of the University,

Last night about forty students held a demonstration on the north side of the Rotunda and as part of this demonstration, they shrouded the Jefferson statue, desecrating ground that many of us consider sacred.


There's your problem,

None of this stuff is sacred.  It has historical importance, but we can't impart these talismans with magical powers.  They were men.  Nothing more, nothing less.
 
2017-09-13 03:36:30 PM  
BLM seems to have one purpose:  driving moderates to the right.   They're very good at it.
 
2017-09-13 03:36:32 PM  

Dr.Fey: And while we are at it can we get that horrible Lou Reed song "Walk on the Wild Side" banned from all airplay?

I mean, it actually says colored girls.  That is really offensive.


Jefferson raped a 14-year old girl.  I admire the holy fark out of his writings and idea but there is no escaping that
 
2017-09-13 03:38:24 PM  
Gotta love fox news.

"We talked to everyone"

(shows video of interviews with three middle aged white people who agree with the FNC narrative )
 
2017-09-13 03:38:52 PM  
Does FDR have any statues we can tear down? Or will we be content merely to re-designing the US dime? He hunted down homosexuals of his day.

That was about 5 minutes of research for a US President who failed to comply with today's morality.

Imagine what I could unearth in a single day.
 
2017-09-13 03:39:01 PM  
Wow, this has got me so distracted I almost forgot the president is an impeachable traitor!
 
2017-09-13 03:39:22 PM  

rcain: This is effing appalling. This was a man who lived according to the customs of his time. Condemning him and protesting his statues because he kept slaves as out of a basic economic reality to keep his family lands productive and viable is elitist and hateful of humanity and our own history. What next? Calls to ban Democracy because Greeks invented Democracy and Man Boy love was a-ok by them?


You sound triggered.
 
2017-09-13 03:40:15 PM  
In the end we are all slaves to Gwar.
 
2017-09-13 03:40:18 PM  

rjakobi: Cagey B: The students did hang a banner calling Jefferson a racist and a rapist. Which, given his views on the natural inferiority of the black race and banging people he owned, is fairly accurate.

Nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnno.  No it's not.

I think we're treading a rather thin line trying to reinvent an 18th century politician to 21st century standards and throwing around the racist monicker like it means something doesn't help.


This will not achieve the ends BLM is hoping for.
 
2017-09-13 03:41:24 PM  

Cagey B: HedlessChickn: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Presidents_of_the_United_States_​who_owned_slaves

Just a heads up, that list includes a completely bullshiat mention of Abraham Lincoln based on the following rationale:

"Lincoln's father-in-law and others of the Todd family were either slave owners or slave traders. Lincoln was close to the Todds, and he and his family occasionally visited the Todd estate in Lexington."

Who knew that visiting a person's house gave you an ownership stake in their assets.


I went in and deleted it.
 
2017-09-13 03:41:37 PM  

Destructor: Does FDR have any statues we can tear down? Or will we be content merely to re-designing the US dime? He hunted down homosexuals of his day.

That was about 5 minutes of research for a US President who failed to comply with today's morality.

Imagine what I could unearth in a single day.


FDR also put Japanese-Americans in internment camps. We should definitely remove his statues
 
2017-09-13 03:42:23 PM  

rjakobi: Cagey B: The students did hang a banner calling Jefferson a racist and a rapist. Which, given his views on the natural inferiority of the black race and banging people he owned, is fairly accurate.

Nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnno.  No it's not.

I think we're treading a rather thin line trying to reinvent an 18th century politician to 21st century standards and throwing around the racist monicker like it means something doesn't help.


Totally agree. If I had to put Jefferson on the racists/not-racist scale of 18th century politics I'd assign him the G W Bush position. Dubya wasn't overtly racist, and did some things for Africa specifically that he didn't need to do politically, but did because it was the right thing. That's Jefferson.  He put some peices in place knowing they would help end slavery because he thought the institution was corrupt, but he personally never planned to take on the institution directly. Not all bad, not all good.
 
2017-09-13 03:43:30 PM  

fragMasterFlash: In the end we are all slaves to Gwar.

GWAR - The Road Behind (HD)
Youtube uWKrM5h4QYw

Indeed.
 
2017-09-13 03:43:31 PM  

Hickory-smoked: Fano: I hope nobody drinks coffee, eats chocolate, bananas, owns diamonds or uses a smartphone, because the only difference is their slaves are invisible to them.

At least three off that list have fair trade sources available.


Lol at believing fair-trade is actually fair-trade
 
2017-09-13 03:43:59 PM  
How be we just change the term 'statues' to 'pigeon toilets' & leave the things up?
Toilets aren't offensive as far as I know.
 
2017-09-13 03:44:57 PM  

big pig peaches: What with the "Jews will not replace us" I saw the clips they were saying "You will not replace us". Whatever the hell that means.


There's plenty of footage of people saying 'jews', others were over emphasizing 'you' to try and drown them out because, ya know that's not their special message.
 
2017-09-13 03:45:11 PM  

Warthog: Oh, and as for the article saying they couldn't reach the school for comment, here's President Sullivan's letter to students and alumni, which popped up in my inbox late this morning:


I'm not in any way connected with UVA, and yet I feel like I've heard a lot about President Sullivan over the years. She's had a surprisingly eventful career. I don't know if people think that's a good thing or not.
 
2017-09-13 03:45:18 PM  
Jefferson knew what he was doing was wrong. He knew slavery wouldn't last, but he liked money.
 
2017-09-13 03:45:41 PM  

rjakobi: Cagey B: The students did hang a banner calling Jefferson a racist and a rapist. Which, given his views on the natural inferiority of the black race and banging people he owned, is fairly accurate.

Nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnno.  No it's not.

I think we're treading a rather thin line trying to reinvent an 18th century politician to 21st century standards and throwing around the racist monicker like it means something doesn't help.


Did you read the above post in its entirety? Even by the standards of his time, Jefferson was lacking in this area.

Jefferson plainly laid out what he thought of black people. That is, by definition, racist, and it's contextualized nicely by arguments to the contrary by a French abolitionist of the time, someone who he would have had quite a lot in common with, culturally and intellectually. "Racist" as a term has a very specific meaning, which Jefferson meets. Pretending otherwise is either ignorance or willful advancement of harmful contemporary political ideas.

That doesn't mean that we need to strip Thomas Jefferson from history, or even refrain from honoring his place as one of the most influential founders of this nation. But we should be aware of the truth of things, and we should be leery of people who insist on deifying political figures and insisting they had no faults. Such has having sex with a teenage girl that had no ability to offer consent.
 
2017-09-13 03:45:44 PM  

Cagey B: Jefferson is vulnerable to criticism in a way that a lot of the other Founding Fathers aren't. Unlike George Washington, who freed all of his slaves upon his death, Thomas Jefferson only freed a handful of his hundreds of slaves in his will, almost all of whom were either his own children or other members of the Hemings family. This resulted in stuff like Joe Fosset, Sally Hemings' nephew, being freed himself upon Jefferson's death, but watching his entire family be sold at auction to several different owners.

He talked the talk when it came to speaking out about the evils of slavery, but unlike many other plantation owners in Virginia at the time, he freed almost none of his slaves while he was alive, primarily because he was in constant debt from his overly lavish lifestyle, a price that was eventually paid by the hides of the people he owned. Many other slave owners at the time conducted themselves far more humanely and did more to end slavery than Jefferson did. And considering that he was one of the most powerful men in the country at the time, his role in that institution must be held to account. Even as a man "living according to the customs of his time," he could have, and should have done far more. Especially as someone who was supposedly against the practice.

Also, not even the Fox News article is claiming that the students want the statue of Jefferson removed. The protest is in support of banning white supremacists from campus and removing Confederate plaques from the grounds. The students did hang a banner calling Jefferson a racist and a rapist. Which, given his views on the natural inferiority of the black race and banging people he owned, is fairly accurate. Even given his flaws, though, I think most people can tell the difference between a monument honoring a Founding Father and a monument honoring a person who took up arms to attack what the Founding Fathers created.


Ah, the apologist makes his entry. Our country was founded by slave owners and built by slaves. There's no way around it and no way to wash away anything somebody might be offended by. Just accept it and get on with your life, while honoring the founders for the good they did and the slaves for the toil they gave us to create what we have today.
 
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