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(Some Guy)   Once again, the UN hits Best Korea with new and improved sanctions. With a straight face, once again   ( theworldbulletin.com) divider line
    More: Followup, North Korea, South Korea, Korean War, Russia, Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty, Korean language, Kim Il-sung, Security Council  
•       •       •

449 clicks; posted to Politics » on 12 Sep 2017 at 2:50 PM (18 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



38 Comments     (+0 »)
 
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2017-09-12 11:19:32 AM  
img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2017-09-12 11:23:27 AM  
I'm sure this time Un will see the error of his ways and immediately cease testing missiles and nukes

/*cough*
 
2017-09-12 01:09:48 PM  
I hope the strongly-worded letter is in Comic Papyrus, so they know we are serious.
 
2017-09-12 01:41:13 PM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: I'm sure this time Un will see the error of his ways and immediately cease testing missiles and nukes

/*cough*


What should we be doing instead?
 
2017-09-12 01:56:05 PM  

Cagey B: MaudlinMutantMollusk: I'm sure this time Un will see the error of his ways and immediately cease testing missiles and nukes

/*cough*

What should we be doing instead?


I'm not at all certain, but further sanctions won't make him stop. That boy ain't right

/I think China is the answer
//If they decided to lean on them
 
2017-09-12 02:53:15 PM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Cagey B: MaudlinMutantMollusk: I'm sure this time Un will see the error of his ways and immediately cease testing missiles and nukes

/*cough*

What should we be doing instead?

I'm not at all certain, but further sanctions won't make him stop. That boy ain't right

/I think China is the answer
//If they decided to lean on them


China would be the answer, but they refuse to uphold the sanctions. Next up, we should be sanctioning Chinese banks, like we did in 2006. It got his father to the table quickly.

/China is not our friend
 
2017-09-12 02:54:16 PM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Cagey B: MaudlinMutantMollusk: I'm sure this time Un will see the error of his ways and immediately cease testing missiles and nukes

/*cough*

What should we be doing instead?

I'm not at all certain, but further sanctions won't make him stop. That boy ain't right

/I think China is the answer
//If they decided to lean on them


Make him stop doing what? Saber rattling?
 
2017-09-12 02:56:40 PM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Cagey B: MaudlinMutantMollusk: I'm sure this time Un will see the error of his ways and immediately cease testing missiles and nukes

/*cough*

What should we be doing instead?

I'm not at all certain, but further sanctions won't make him stop. That boy ain't right

/I think China is the answer
//If they decided to lean on them


This is China leaning on them. This round of sanctions includes limitations on oil imports, which is pretty much the only remaining economic tool available to hurt the North Korean economy. Since this was a UN Security Council measure, it required China's permission.

China isn't really going to go much further. They will not tolerate a collapse of the North Korean regime, and for good reason. Any further cutbacks in oil imports will threaten a collapse. "Make China do it" isn't a sound strategy to rely on, which is of course why Trumpenfuhrer has seized on it.

So what's left? War? Nobody sane is in favor of that. Sanctions might get derided by the "strongly worded letter lol" corps here on Fark (who really ought to consider how much they sound like John Bolton when they bust that one out), but sanctions aren't getting our troops killed and gutting our treasury. If anyone has a better alternative, they should probably go report to the Pentagon immediately.
 
2017-09-12 02:58:55 PM  

Archidude: MaudlinMutantMollusk: Cagey B: MaudlinMutantMollusk: I'm sure this time Un will see the error of his ways and immediately cease testing missiles and nukes

/*cough*

What should we be doing instead?

I'm not at all certain, but further sanctions won't make him stop. That boy ain't right

/I think China is the answer
//If they decided to lean on them

Make him stop doing what? Saber rattling?


This. He has nukes; that genie ain't going back in the bottle. But he's also not gonna USE them...at least, unless someone attacks first.

Jong-un might be crazy, but the bulk of that crazy is an act. He's not going to strike anyone first, because even he knows that would be suicidal. He's just keeping the populace scared of outside enemies, putting on a 'strong leader' act, and making sure that it will be far costlier than it's worth to take him out.

North Korea is contained. Unlike Nazi Germany, they're not expanding to take over other countries, nor do they have any real capability to do so. The humanitarian situation is, of course, horrific, but pretty much any action we could do to get rid of him would make things infinitely worse and more widespread.
 
2017-09-12 03:01:21 PM  
img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2017-09-12 03:06:27 PM  

LordJiro: Archidude: MaudlinMutantMollusk: Cagey B: MaudlinMutantMollusk: I'm sure this time Un will see the error of his ways and immediately cease testing missiles and nukes

/*cough*

What should we be doing instead?

I'm not at all certain, but further sanctions won't make him stop. That boy ain't right

/I think China is the answer
//If they decided to lean on them

Make him stop doing what? Saber rattling?

This. He has nukes; that genie ain't going back in the bottle. But he's also not gonna USE them...at least, unless someone attacks first.

Jong-un might be crazy, but the bulk of that crazy is an act. He's not going to strike anyone first, because even he knows that would be suicidal. He's just keeping the populace scared of outside enemies, putting on a 'strong leader' act, and making sure that it will be far costlier than it's worth to take him out.

North Korea is contained. Unlike Nazi Germany, they're not expanding to take over other countries, nor do they have any real capability to do so. The humanitarian situation is, of course, horrific, but pretty much any action we could do to get rid of him would make things infinitely worse and more widespread.


I agree, NK is essentially in the middle of a decades long hostage situation.  Even without the nukes, an attack on them kills the hostage (Seoul).  But if they kill the hostage, the rest of the world wipes them from the map.

If they attack the hostage negotiator (China) or the police (most of the rest of the world) directly, all bets are off and even if NK manages to do some damage, NK doesn't make it out alive.
 
2017-09-12 03:06:37 PM  

Cagey B: MaudlinMutantMollusk: I'm sure this time Un will see the error of his ways and immediately cease testing missiles and nukes

/*cough*

What should we be doing instead?


upload.wikimedia.orgView Full Size

There was a time UN sanctions of NK looked like this.
 
2017-09-12 03:06:59 PM  
A 30% reduction in oil imports, complete embargo on replacement fuels - I hope the people can keep themselves warm at night.
 
2017-09-12 03:08:49 PM  

This text is now purple: Cagey B: MaudlinMutantMollusk: I'm sure this time Un will see the error of his ways and immediately cease testing missiles and nukes

/*cough*

What should we be doing instead?

[upload.wikimedia.org image 850x654]
There was a time UN sanctions of NK looked like this.


All we are saying is give war a chance....

Everybody sing!
 
2017-09-12 03:10:29 PM  

Jz4p: A 30% reduction in oil imports, complete embargo on replacement fuels - I hope the people can keep themselves warm at night.


Winter is coming.

I don't understand that part either (the textile export ban makes more sense).  Perhaps the idea is that if you make life so miserable for average North Koreans that they'll turn on fearless leader?  Seems unlikely... any coup would be military and I imagine the top advisors are live cushy lives relative to the average NK worker bee.

It's just suffering for the masses.
 
2017-09-12 03:12:27 PM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: I'm sure this time Un will see the error of his ways and immediately cease testing missiles and nukes

/*cough*


You get that the world doesn't want a war in the peninsula, right?
 
2017-09-12 03:12:37 PM  

Jz4p: A 30% reduction in oil imports, complete embargo on replacement fuels - I hope the people can keep themselves warm at night.


I hear there's at least one untapped source of whale oil in Pyongyang.
 
2017-09-12 03:13:47 PM  

This text is now purple: Cagey B: MaudlinMutantMollusk: I'm sure this time Un will see the error of his ways and immediately cease testing missiles and nukes

/*cough*

What should we be doing instead?

[upload.wikimedia.org image 850x654]
There was a time UN sanctions of NK looked like this.


Good thing the geopolitical situation is exactly the same now as it was in 1950.
 
2017-09-12 03:20:03 PM  

Jz4p: A 30% reduction in oil imports, complete embargo on replacement fuels - I hope the people can keep themselves warm at night.


You think that the people of North Korea use some kind of fuel to heat the homes that they don't have?
 
2017-09-12 03:25:53 PM  
FFS, people, I'm not stupid. Mostly

/All I said was that further sanctions won't stop Un from testing nukes and delivery systems. I think that's a given
//No, I do NOT know what else we should do any more than most, if not all, of you
///Ok?
 
2017-09-12 03:26:04 PM  

Armchair_Invective: Jz4p: A 30% reduction in oil imports, complete embargo on replacement fuels - I hope the people can keep themselves warm at night.

You think that the people of North Korea use some kind of fuel to heat the homes that they don't have?


It's not about the masses, it's about the several percent who DO have nice, heatable homes. They're the ones who keep Kim in power, or not.

If there is hope there, it doesn't  lie with the proles.
 
2017-09-12 03:27:47 PM  
This time it will work.
 
2017-09-12 03:28:44 PM  

Mercutio74: Jz4p: A 30% reduction in oil imports, complete embargo on replacement fuels - I hope the people can keep themselves warm at night.

Winter is coming.

I don't understand that part either (the textile export ban makes more sense).  Perhaps the idea is that if you make life so miserable for average North Koreans that they'll turn on fearless leader?  Seems unlikely... any coup would be military and I imagine the top advisors are live cushy lives relative to the average NK worker bee.

It's just suffering for the masses.


John Oliver's bit a few weeks ago on North Korea showed that the people see KJU as a greater-than-man hero and that anything bad that happens to them is because the US and other Western countries are evil.  KJU's warmongering is essentially because has to live up to their (and his father's/grandfather's) expectations.  Not because he actually wants to rain hellfire all over the globe.  He knows he can't achieve world domination, but he can make his people believe he can if only it weren't for those evil Westerners.
 
2017-09-12 03:30:28 PM  

Mercutio74: Jz4p: A 30% reduction in oil imports, complete embargo on replacement fuels - I hope the people can keep themselves warm at night.

Winter is coming.

I don't understand that part either (the textile export ban makes more sense).  Perhaps the idea is that if you make life so miserable for average North Koreans that they'll turn on fearless leader?  Seems unlikely... any coup would be military and I imagine the top advisors are live cushy lives relative to the average NK worker bee.

It's just suffering for the masses.


Fuel goes to the military first. Reduce the fuel and the military can't train or move. Also affects other petroleum based products that they need.

/See a lot of similarities of how Japan was dealt with prior to WW2.
 
2017-09-12 03:32:04 PM  
The main value of sanctions isn't to force a behavior change, but to improve your bargaining position in future negotiations by giving you something to lift.
 
2017-09-12 03:39:37 PM  

BeotchPudding: Mercutio74: Jz4p: A 30% reduction in oil imports, complete embargo on replacement fuels - I hope the people can keep themselves warm at night.

Winter is coming.

I don't understand that part either (the textile export ban makes more sense).  Perhaps the idea is that if you make life so miserable for average North Koreans that they'll turn on fearless leader?  Seems unlikely... any coup would be military and I imagine the top advisors are live cushy lives relative to the average NK worker bee.

It's just suffering for the masses.

Fuel goes to the military first. Reduce the fuel and the military can't train or move. Also affects other petroleum based products that they need.

/See a lot of similarities of how Japan was dealt with prior to WW2.


The NK military would be a joke in a conventional exchange with any competent nation.  The real power that NK has is being able to destroy a giant chunk of SK extremely quickly which really doesn't involve massive troop movements or tons of resources that aren't already engaged.

I have no doubt that limiting oil is annoying to the leadership, but it's hardly effective with the exception of the theory SomeAmerican just posted.
 
2017-09-12 03:41:44 PM  
If Kim Fatty tries to launch a nuke at anyone hopefully he'll announce it on state news first so his people have time to say goodbye to their families because 15 minutes after that launch he'll DICtator of a radioactive wasteland
 
2017-09-12 03:49:58 PM  

Cagey B: MaudlinMutantMollusk: I'm sure this time Un will see the error of his ways and immediately cease testing missiles and nukes

/*cough*

What should we be doing instead?


If only recent history provided some lessons as to the proper handling of insane, megalomaniacal dictators who clearly state their intent to attack and destroy other nations, before it was too late.

Oh well, in the absence of the knowledge gained by such historical precedent, I guess laughably ineffective sanctions will have to do.
 
2017-09-12 03:50:28 PM  

Snarfangel: I hope the strongly-worded letter is in Comic Papyrus, so they know we are serious.


img.fark.netView Full Size

NOTHING is more serious than Papyrus.
 
2017-09-12 04:08:57 PM  

Loose_Cannon: MaudlinMutantMollusk: Cagey B: MaudlinMutantMollusk: I'm sure this time Un will see the error of his ways and immediately cease testing missiles and nukes

/*cough*

What should we be doing instead?

I'm not at all certain, but further sanctions won't make him stop. That boy ain't right

/I think China is the answer
//If they decided to lean on them

China would be the answer, but they refuse to uphold the sanctions. Next up, we should be sanctioning Chinese banks, like we did in 2006. It got his father to the table quickly.

/China is not our friend


This is exactly right.

The problem isn't that sanctions don't work, the problem is that China continues to assist North Korea in avoiding the sanctions while publicly claiming to enforce them. Beijing needs to be convinced it is in their best interest to get serious. So next step, China sanctions, specifically financial sector pressures.
 
2017-09-12 04:10:49 PM  

This text is now purple: Cagey B: MaudlinMutantMollusk: I'm sure this time Un will see the error of his ways and immediately cease testing missiles and nukes

/*cough*

What should we be doing instead?

[upload.wikimedia.org image 850x654]
There was a time UN sanctions of NK looked like this.


No, no... Not that. We have to let them build up enough thermonuclear tipped ICBMs to do some real damage. THEN we can attack them...

That's what makes it fair.
 
2017-09-12 04:22:26 PM  
Best Sanctions
 
2017-09-12 04:22:37 PM  
China and russia are perfectly happy with a belligerent and nuclear armed north korea if it includes stiggenit to the US.

And the US economy is hog tied since it relies too much on trade with china.

South korea, japan, and the US are going to have to learn how to deal with a nuclear armed korea.
 
2017-09-12 04:26:01 PM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: FFS, people, I'm not stupid. Mostly

/All I said was that further sanctions won't stop Un from testing nukes and delivery systems. I think that's a given
//No, I do NOT know what else we should do any more than most, if not all, of you
///Ok?


Welcome to FarkPol?
 
2017-09-12 04:28:34 PM  

kkinnison: China and russia are perfectly happy with a belligerent and nuclear armed north korea if it includes stiggenit to the US.

And the US economy is hog tied since it relies too much on trade with china.

South korea, japan, and the US are going to have to learn how to deal with a nuclear armed korea.


The US and South Korea and Japan, etc will deal with it by installing anti-missile systems and nukes which China & Russia do not want.

Since the main issue for China is the threat of having a Democratic country directly on their border (which they do not want), maybe come up with a 'Hong-Kong' style deal. Give Best Korea to China, keeping the DMZ in-place, on a 200 year 'lease' period. Maybe 200 years from now the world will have learned to get along.
 
2017-09-12 04:31:26 PM  

Mercutio74: Jz4p: A 30% reduction in oil imports, complete embargo on replacement fuels - I hope the people can keep themselves warm at night.

Winter is coming.

I don't understand that part either (the textile export ban makes more sense).  Perhaps the idea is that if you make life so miserable for average North Koreans that they'll turn on fearless leader?  Seems unlikely... any coup would be military and I imagine the top advisors are live cushy lives relative to the average NK worker bee.

It's just suffering for the masses.


In practice, it's going to put a pinch on electricity production, military uses, and the already limited personal transportation in the country.  There are other uses, this is crude oil after all, but those are the biggest foreseeable declines.

The humanitarian hopes they will decrease the military allotment; but depending how much of their capacity they were using, the most likely outcome will be a slight decline in military allotments, with more brownouts or blackouts and more private rationing.  It's also possible that other uses of oil will hurt supply chains, ie: any local plastics production might take a dip.

I'm not in a place to theorize if there will be a direct impact on rail or agriculture, but it wouldn't be too surprising.
 
2017-09-12 04:36:48 PM  

Jz4p: A 30% reduction in oil imports, complete embargo on replacement fuels - I hope the people can keep themselves warm at night.


Have they no trees to burn?
 
2017-09-12 04:58:30 PM  

Mambo Bananapatch: Cagey B: MaudlinMutantMollusk: I'm sure this time Un will see the error of his ways and immediately cease testing missiles and nukes

/*cough*

What should we be doing instead?

If only recent history provided some lessons as to the proper handling of insane, megalomaniacal dictators who clearly state their intent to attack and destroy other nations, before it was too late.

Oh well, in the absence of the knowledge gained by such historical precedent, I guess laughably ineffective sanctions will have to do.


How about recent history showing that, when you overthrow a dictator who has no real ability to expand and is only an actual threat to his own people, you make the situation in the region far worse than it was when he was contained? And Saddam wasn't even on a rival superpower's doorstep.
 
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