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(Politico (Europe))   NATO Chief: "North Korea requires a global response." Putin: "Good. Good. Just send all of NATO to deal with that little twerp. I'll just be over here...in Ukrainian wheat fields. Don't mind me"   ( politico.eu) divider line
    More: Obvious, Angela Merkel, North Korea, nuclear saber rattling, NATO chief Jens, Chancellor of Germany, Federal government of the United States, United States, President Emmanuel Macron  
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929 clicks; posted to Politics » on 12 Sep 2017 at 12:29 AM (5 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



46 Comments     (+0 »)
 
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2017-09-12 12:34:24 AM  
horseback. shirtless.
 
2017-09-12 12:38:27 AM  
cdn.quotesgram.com
 
2017-09-12 12:43:31 AM  
What is Russia's actual diplomatic relations with North Korea like?

Genuinely curious, I thought China was the one keeping Nk afloat, but the rapid development of their missiles screams out that they are getting outside help.  I can't see China helping them, that would be like giving a 14 year old keys your to your Lamborghini.

If it is Russia, they do realize that Un would be more than happy to pass the tech to any country that will pay him, right?
 
2017-09-12 12:44:28 AM  
Why can't Russia be part of NATO?  The Soviet Union collapsed a long time ago.
 
2017-09-12 12:46:39 AM  
You stay out of this, Jens, it doesn't concern you.
 
2017-09-12 12:48:18 AM  

Chuck87: Why can't Russia be part of NATO?  The Soviet Union collapsed a long time ago.


img.fark.net
 
2017-09-12 01:01:30 AM  
img.fark.net

Time to destroy every port in North Korea and drop a tactical nuke just inside their northern border. Att that point they can either make peace with the south or starve.

/feeling strangely chickenhawkish tonight
 
2017-09-12 01:04:15 AM  
Global response probably means United Nations, just like last time North Korea started a war.
 
2017-09-12 01:10:48 AM  

Chuck87: Why can't Russia be part of NATO?  The Soviet Union collapsed a long time ago.


Because this is basically Russia, at this point.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dW37AGZ0Pj0
 
2017-09-12 01:12:41 AM  

Mister Buttons: What is Russia's actual diplomatic relations with North Korea like?

Genuinely curious, I thought China was the one keeping Nk afloat, but the rapid development of their missiles screams out that they are getting outside help.  I can't see China helping them, that would be like giving a 14 year old keys your to your Lamborghini.

If it is Russia, they do realize that Un would be more than happy to pass the tech to any country that will pay him, right?


Russian relationships with Pyongyang are best described as "complicated".

They like using North Korea as a pawn to distracted US foreign policy, but at the same time they are distrustful of the DPRK's close ties to regional econimic rival China.

Kim has had enough sense to treat Russia as a business partner without embroiling Putin in their political conflicts, and Russia is a nation that will sacrifice political expediency for hard currency.

That said, while China's worst-case scenario is a North Korean regime collapse leading to American dominance of the Korean Peninsula, the Russians are more apt to wish to avoid a North Korean regime collapse that leaves the whole place under China 's stewardship.

Russia doesn't want a nuclear North Korea, but they don't want Kim's government to collapse, either.
 
2017-09-12 01:14:39 AM  

Mister Buttons: What is Russia's actual diplomatic relations with North Korea like?

Genuinely curious, I thought China was the one keeping Nk afloat, but the rapid development of their missiles screams out that they are getting outside help.  I can't see China helping them, that would be like giving a 14 year old keys your to your Lamborghini.

If it is Russia, they do realize that Un would be more than happy to pass the tech to any country that will pay him, right?


Also, I know there is some indication that Russia may be helping them with short and medium range missile tech, but the real kickstarters of their nuclear weapons program came from Pakistan.
 
2017-09-12 01:41:27 AM  
Add this to evidence that the rest of the world has put us at the kids table for the time being.
 
2017-09-12 01:50:25 AM  

Chuck87: Why can't Russia be part of NATO?  The Soviet Union collapsed a long time ago.


Well, there it is...
 
2017-09-12 03:24:27 AM  

Chuck87: Why can't Russia be part of NATO?  The Soviet Union collapsed a long time ago.


NATO was created as a defense against Russia.

If they got into NATO they would just sabotage it. See: Trump
 
2017-09-12 04:15:48 AM  

Mister Buttons: What is Russia's actual diplomatic relations with North Korea like?

Genuinely curious, I thought China was the one keeping Nk afloat, but the rapid development of their missiles screams out that they are getting outside help.  I can't see China helping them, that would be like giving a 14 year old keys your to your Lamborghini.

If it is Russia, they do realize that Un would be more than happy to pass the tech to any country that will pay him, right?


My guess is good enough to teach them how to make ICBM's and Hydrogen bombs. That or North Korea struggled for decades with very slow gains and then in the past year accomplished as much as the did in the  past fifteen years.  I hold my breath while Trump's administration calls Russia out on it.  Just like he did for them arming the Taliban
 
2017-09-12 04:21:18 AM  

arcgear: horseback. shirtless.


.jpg, .gif, .png... .bmp..?

Come on man... don't leave us...

/hanging
 
2017-09-12 05:33:53 AM  

Mister Buttons: What is Russia's actual diplomatic relations with North Korea like?

Genuinely curious, I thought China was the one keeping Nk afloat, but the rapid development of their missiles screams out that they are getting outside help.  I can't see China helping them, that would be like giving a 14 year old keys your to your Lamborghini.

If it is Russia, they do realize that Un would be more than happy to pass the tech to any country that will pay him, right?


Its Ukraine helping them for FFS.
 
2017-09-12 05:35:44 AM  

anustart: Mister Buttons: What is Russia's actual diplomatic relations with North Korea like?

Genuinely curious, I thought China was the one keeping Nk afloat, but the rapid development of their missiles screams out that they are getting outside help.  I can't see China helping them, that would be like giving a 14 year old keys your to your Lamborghini.

If it is Russia, they do realize that Un would be more than happy to pass the tech to any country that will pay him, right?

Also, I know there is some indication that Russia may be helping them with short and medium range missile tech, but the real kickstarters of their nuclear weapons program came from Pakistan.


No there's not. Its Ukraine.
 
2017-09-12 05:37:56 AM  

LeftOfLiberal: Mister Buttons: What is Russia's actual diplomatic relations with North Korea like?

Genuinely curious, I thought China was the one keeping Nk afloat, but the rapid development of their missiles screams out that they are getting outside help.  I can't see China helping them, that would be like giving a 14 year old keys your to your Lamborghini.

If it is Russia, they do realize that Un would be more than happy to pass the tech to any country that will pay him, right?

My guess is good enough to teach them how to make ICBM's and Hydrogen bombs. That or North Korea struggled for decades with very slow gains and then in the past year accomplished as much as the did in the  past fifteen years.  I hold my breath while Trump's administration calls Russia out on it.  Just like he did for them arming the Taliban


http://www.dw.com/en/north-koreas-missile-program-linked-to-soviet-te​c​hnology-says-report/a-40086647

What's wrong with people, its Ukraine!

Who the fark told you it was Russia? It is well known that it is Ukraine.
 
2017-09-12 05:48:30 AM  

Ketchuponsteak: Its Ukraine helping them for FFS.


Ketchuponsteak: No there's not. Its Ukraine.


Ketchuponsteak: What's wrong with people, its Ukraine!


Uh...you know the missile parts came from the Russian-occupied areas of Ukraine and only after the Russians occupied them, yes comrade?
 
2017-09-12 06:02:00 AM  

somedude210: Ketchuponsteak: Its Ukraine helping them for FFS.

Ketchuponsteak: No there's not. Its Ukraine.

Ketchuponsteak: What's wrong with people, its Ukraine!

Uh...you know the missile parts came from the Russian-occupied areas of Ukraine and only after the Russians occupied them, yes comrade?


I provided a source, now you do the same.

Is that OK my Nazi friend?
 
2017-09-12 06:57:22 AM  

Mister Buttons: What is Russia's actual diplomatic relations with North Korea like?

Genuinely curious, I thought China was the one keeping Nk afloat, but the rapid development of their missiles screams out that they are getting outside help.  I can't see China helping them, that would be like giving a 14 year old keys your to your Lamborghini.

If it is Russia, they do realize that Un would be more than happy to pass the tech to any country that will pay him, right?


One talking point i heard is that China is the one helping NK's nuke program. China fears Drumpf. China is scared that D2S will cause a trade war, will bring back manufacturing from China, which will sink them. Therefore, China wants to embroil us in a boondoggle which will in turn make China the premier superpower.

Not sure how that makes sense, but there is your wtf talking point of the day.
 
2017-09-12 07:08:49 AM  

Duck_of_Doom: Mister Buttons: What is Russia's actual diplomatic relations with North Korea like?

Genuinely curious, I thought China was the one keeping Nk afloat, but the rapid development of their missiles screams out that they are getting outside help.  I can't see China helping them, that would be like giving a 14 year old keys your to your Lamborghini.

If it is Russia, they do realize that Un would be more than happy to pass the tech to any country that will pay him, right?

One talking point i heard is that China is the one helping NK's nuke program. China fears Drumpf. China is scared that D2S will cause a trade war, will bring back manufacturing from China, which will sink them. Therefore, China wants to embroil us in a boondoggle which will in turn make China the premier superpower.

Not sure how that makes sense, but there is your wtf talking point of the day.


Trump will "bring back manufacturing from China", thus "sinking China"?

Possibly the funniest thing I've read all week.

/China wants NK to behave
 
2017-09-12 07:27:49 AM  

Ketchuponsteak: somedude210: Ketchuponsteak: Its Ukraine helping them for FFS.

Ketchuponsteak: No there's not. Its Ukraine.

Ketchuponsteak: What's wrong with people, its Ukraine!

Uh...you know the missile parts came from the Russian-occupied areas of Ukraine and only after the Russians occupied them, yes comrade?

I provided a source, now you do the same.

Is that OK my Nazi friend?


Nazi? Where the f*ck did you figure I was a damn nazi. The opposite of Russian isn't Nazi, moron.

as for the rocket engine. It was developed and produced by NPO Energomash, which is owned by the Russian government.

and your link doesn't prove it was Ukraine either. All it said was "some people think Ukraine may have sold NK the rocket engines, but there's no confirmation of that allegation"

so show me the proof. Ukraine has no reason to care about North Korea
 
2017-09-12 07:29:22 AM  

Chuck87: Why can't Russia be part of NATO?  The Soviet Union collapsed a long time ago.


The US actually thought about having Russia join NATO for a bit in  the early 1990s, but analysts wisely concluded that would mean drawing the US into a quagmire in Chechnya, among other problems.. The least of which being military standardization.

Also, it should be known that the NATO Secretary General is aware of Russia's shenanigans in Belarus being timed with North Koreas missile douchebaggery  and has finished reviewing defenses in the Baltics.
 
2017-09-12 07:33:19 AM  

Ketchuponsteak: Mister Buttons: What is Russia's actual diplomatic relations with North Korea like?

Genuinely curious, I thought China was the one keeping Nk afloat, but the rapid development of their missiles screams out that they are getting outside help.  I can't see China helping them, that would be like giving a 14 year old keys your to your Lamborghini.

If it is Russia, they do realize that Un would be more than happy to pass the tech to any country that will pay him, right?

Its Ukraine helping them for FFS.


True. Remember, Ukraine has partisan pro-Russian elements littered in it's political landscape. I doubt the Ukrainian government is helping North Korea, but pro-Russian Ukrainian elements would definitely help North Korea, as such technology would smear Ukraine while actively helping Russia's intentions.
 
2017-09-12 07:39:17 AM  

somedude210: Ketchuponsteak: somedude210: Ketchuponsteak: Its Ukraine helping them for FFS.

Ketchuponsteak: No there's not. Its Ukraine.

Ketchuponsteak: What's wrong with people, its Ukraine!

Uh...you know the missile parts came from the Russian-occupied areas of Ukraine and only after the Russians occupied them, yes comrade?

I provided a source, now you do the same.

Is that OK my Nazi friend?

Nazi? Where the f*ck did you figure I was a damn nazi. The opposite of Russian isn't Nazi, moron.

as for the rocket engine. It was developed and produced by NPO Energomash, which is owned by the Russian government.

and your link doesn't prove it was Ukraine either. All it said was "some people think Ukraine may have sold NK the rocket engines, but there's no confirmation of that allegation"

so show me the proof. Ukraine has no reason to care about North Korea


He called you a 'Nazi' because in Russia, during the Euromaidan revolution, TASS and the Russian press in general started to casually refer to pro-Ukrainian separatists as 'Nazis'. The reason is that a small section of Ukrainians fighting for the Maidan government were racist anti-Russian right wingers, so naturally the Russian media focused entirely on them and their rhetoric.

But if anybody calls you a 'Nazi' for supporting Ukrainian national autonomy, now that's a clear sign that you are dealing with a Russian shill.
 
2017-09-12 07:46:22 AM  

Wessoman: somedude210: Ketchuponsteak: somedude210: Ketchuponsteak: Its Ukraine helping them for FFS.

Ketchuponsteak: No there's not. Its Ukraine.

Ketchuponsteak: What's wrong with people, its Ukraine!

Uh...you know the missile parts came from the Russian-occupied areas of Ukraine and only after the Russians occupied them, yes comrade?

I provided a source, now you do the same.

Is that OK my Nazi friend?

Nazi? Where the f*ck did you figure I was a damn nazi. The opposite of Russian isn't Nazi, moron.

as for the rocket engine. It was developed and produced by NPO Energomash, which is owned by the Russian government.

and your link doesn't prove it was Ukraine either. All it said was "some people think Ukraine may have sold NK the rocket engines, but there's no confirmation of that allegation"

so show me the proof. Ukraine has no reason to care about North Korea

He called you a 'Nazi' because in Russia, during the Euromaidan revolution, TASS and the Russian press in general started to casually refer to pro-Ukrainian separatists as 'Nazis'. The reason is that a small section of Ukrainians fighting for the Maidan government were racist anti-Russian right wingers, so naturally the Russian media focused entirely on them and their rhetoric.

But if anybody calls you a 'Nazi' for supporting Ukrainian national autonomy, now that's a clear sign that you are dealing with a Russian shill.


I find the username more interesting. It's clearly a dig on Trump and his fine dining habits, but the account was created a year before Trump's presidential announcement.

but thanks for the "casual nazi" lesson. I didn't realize they called the separatists nazis. Also, how can you be racist to Russians as a Ukrainian? Are you both white? Or is this more of a "nationalist racism" type thing
 
2017-09-12 08:03:46 AM  

somedude210: Wessoman: somedude210: Ketchuponsteak: somedude210: Ketchuponsteak: Its Ukraine helping them for FFS.

Ketchuponsteak: No there's not. Its Ukraine.

Ketchuponsteak: What's wrong with people, its Ukraine!

Uh...you know the missile parts came from the Russian-occupied areas of Ukraine and only after the Russians occupied them, yes comrade?

I provided a source, now you do the same.

Is that OK my Nazi friend?

Nazi? Where the f*ck did you figure I was a damn nazi. The opposite of Russian isn't Nazi, moron.

as for the rocket engine. It was developed and produced by NPO Energomash, which is owned by the Russian government.

and your link doesn't prove it was Ukraine either. All it said was "some people think Ukraine may have sold NK the rocket engines, but there's no confirmation of that allegation"

so show me the proof. Ukraine has no reason to care about North Korea

He called you a 'Nazi' because in Russia, during the Euromaidan revolution, TASS and the Russian press in general started to casually refer to pro-Ukrainian separatists as 'Nazis'. The reason is that a small section of Ukrainians fighting for the Maidan government were racist anti-Russian right wingers, so naturally the Russian media focused entirely on them and their rhetoric.

But if anybody calls you a 'Nazi' for supporting Ukrainian national autonomy, now that's a clear sign that you are dealing with a Russian shill.

I find the username more interesting. It's clearly a dig on Trump and his fine dining habits, but the account was created a year before Trump's presidential announcement.

but thanks for the "casual nazi" lesson. I didn't realize they called the separatists nazis. Also, how can you be racist to Russians as a Ukrainian? Are you both white? Or is this more of a "nationalist racism" type thing


I don't know. My knowledge of this actually comes from watching Russian news during the Maidan/Crimea crisis. I can't say exactly what is actually real or just contrarian Russian BS, but I do know the Azov Battalion is a real thing and do have far right wing leanings.

I am speculating, but I can see from Ukrainian history and the Holodomor where racist Anti-Russian sentiment in Ukraine would come from.
 
2017-09-12 08:19:33 AM  

WegianWarrior: Global response probably means United Nations, just like last time North Korea started a war.


We get a sitcom that last longer than the war it's based off of?
 
2017-09-12 08:39:16 AM  

Chuck87: Why can't Russia be part of NATO?  The Soviet Union collapsed a long time ago.


Think of NATO like a discussion board similar to Fark.  Russia says they are new to the table but a simple look  at their profile and past tells us they are just an ALT.  Why should they be protected when they don't want to play by the same rules as everyone else?  They think they are fooling the world but in reality everyone knows exactly what they are doing but they still do it over and over and over again. You certainly can't be supporting that type of behavior at NATO, can you?
 
2017-09-12 08:40:29 AM  

alechemist: WegianWarrior: Global response probably means United Nations, just like last time North Korea started a war.

We get a sitcom that last longer than the war it's based off of?


I would totally be down for a M*A*S*H remake series that is newish while still retaining what makes it MASH: Dark comedy, impeccable timing, and excellent chemistry among the cast

also, Korea, commies, death, humor and soapboxing
 
2017-09-12 08:58:16 AM  

somedude210: Ketchuponsteak: somedude210: Ketchuponsteak: Its Ukraine helping them for FFS.

Ketchuponsteak: No there's not. Its Ukraine.

Ketchuponsteak: What's wrong with people, its Ukraine!

Uh...you know the missile parts came from the Russian-occupied areas of Ukraine and only after the Russians occupied them, yes comrade?

I provided a source, now you do the same.

Is that OK my Nazi friend?

Nazi? Where the f*ck did you figure I was a damn nazi. The opposite of Russian isn't Nazi, moron.

as for the rocket engine. It was developed and produced by NPO Energomash, which is owned by the Russian government.

and your link doesn't prove it was Ukraine either. All it said was "some people think Ukraine may have sold NK the rocket engines, but there's no confirmation of that allegation"

so show me the proof. Ukraine has no reason to care about North Korea


Wtf. did you call me "Comrade"?

I linked an article from BBC (scroll up), do you consider that a credible source?


If you reply to me once more, ignoring my question for a source, I'll just ignore you.
 
2017-09-12 09:01:38 AM  

Wessoman: Ketchuponsteak: Mister Buttons: What is Russia's actual diplomatic relations with North Korea like?

Genuinely curious, I thought China was the one keeping Nk afloat, but the rapid development of their missiles screams out that they are getting outside help.  I can't see China helping them, that would be like giving a 14 year old keys your to your Lamborghini.

If it is Russia, they do realize that Un would be more than happy to pass the tech to any country that will pay him, right?

Its Ukraine helping them for FFS.

True. Remember, Ukraine has partisan pro-Russian elements littered in it's political landscape. I doubt the Ukrainian government is helping North Korea, but pro-Russian Ukrainian elements would definitely help North Korea, as such technology would smear Ukraine while actively helping Russia's intentions.


I don't know how this helps Russia. Especially since they traditionally never exported their good stuff.

But I wouldn't at all be surprised if some pro-Russian rebels are doing it, and pocketing some Nork money.

Of course, the only thing I've seen on the subject, is an BBC article, that only says its comming from Ukraine. Perhaps from corrupt factory workers.
 
2017-09-12 09:20:54 AM  

Ketchuponsteak: somedude210: Ketchuponsteak: somedude210: Ketchuponsteak: Its Ukraine helping them for FFS.

Ketchuponsteak: No there's not. Its Ukraine.

Ketchuponsteak: What's wrong with people, its Ukraine!

Uh...you know the missile parts came from the Russian-occupied areas of Ukraine and only after the Russians occupied them, yes comrade?

I provided a source, now you do the same.

Is that OK my Nazi friend?

Nazi? Where the f*ck did you figure I was a damn nazi. The opposite of Russian isn't Nazi, moron.

as for the rocket engine. It was developed and produced by NPO Energomash, which is owned by the Russian government.

and your link doesn't prove it was Ukraine either. All it said was "some people think Ukraine may have sold NK the rocket engines, but there's no confirmation of that allegation"

so show me the proof. Ukraine has no reason to care about North Korea

Wtf. did you call me "Comrade"?

I linked an article from BBC (scroll up), do you consider that a credible source?


If you reply to me once more, ignoring my question for a source, I'll just ignore you.


you listed one article (DW, not BBC) and it doesn't make any definitive one way or the other, just that the engines came from a Ukrainian plant. Both the company and Ukraine deny all allegations.

of you actually look at where the company is located, they are either in or damn close to the Russian-occupied zone. There is no confirmation the Ukraine was behind it and it makes far more sense that Russia would be selling it in order to antagonize the West and show that China is not as strong as they come across (they can't even keep Un on a leash)

so show me proof that Ukraine is behind it. The article you listed doesn't say that. It says they're accused of it.

but let's just say that Ukraine is behind it, for the sake of argument, how would they get them to NK secretly? They would have to go through China (who won't want people arming NK with parts to build an ICBM) or Russia.

There are far more flaws with your theory than the idea that Russia is arming NK
 
2017-09-12 09:21:56 AM  

Ketchuponsteak: somedude210: Ketchuponsteak: somedude210: Ketchuponsteak: Its Ukraine helping them for FFS.

Ketchuponsteak: No there's not. Its Ukraine.

Ketchuponsteak: What's wrong with people, its Ukraine!

Uh...you know the missile parts came from the Russian-occupied areas of Ukraine and only after the Russians occupied them, yes comrade?

I provided a source, now you do the same.

Is that OK my Nazi friend?

Nazi? Where the f*ck did you figure I was a damn nazi. The opposite of Russian isn't Nazi, moron.

as for the rocket engine. It was developed and produced by NPO Energomash, which is owned by the Russian government.

and your link doesn't prove it was Ukraine either. All it said was "some people think Ukraine may have sold NK the rocket engines, but there's no confirmation of that allegation"

so show me the proof. Ukraine has no reason to care about North Korea

Wtf. did you call me "Comrade"?

I linked an article from BBC (scroll up), do you consider that a credible source?


If you reply to me once more, ignoring my question for a source, I'll just ignore you.


and if you don't want to be called a comrade, then I suggest you stop using Russian talking points, comrade.

but nothing I've said or done justifies calling me a nazi
 
2017-09-12 09:25:57 AM  

Ketchuponsteak: I don't know how this helps Russia. Especially since they traditionally never exported their good stuff.


Hahahahaha, stop stop, that's too f*cking hilarious.

Seriously though, did you really just say that Russia doesn't sell their good stuff?

they sell everything for a good price. That's what they're known for
 
2017-09-12 09:26:40 AM  

Ketchuponsteak: I don't know how this helps Russia. Especially since they traditionally never exported their good stuff.


First of all, that's BS. Yes, Russia usually exports M models, but commonly export their "Good Stuff" when western weapons turn the M models into giant coffins. (See:The BTR-82A) Or--Did you just admit that Russia doesn't export their "Good" stuff and the guys in the BTR-82A's killing Syrian Civilians are Russian regular troops, as widely suspected?

And exporting Missile Tech greatly helps Russia, by tying up the west with North Korea, leaving their troop build up in Belarus unchecked, and "exercise" that looks poised to strike Ukraine or the Baltics.

Ketchuponsteak: But I wouldn't at all be surprised if some pro-Russian rebels are doing it, and pocketing some Nork money.


Actually, I agree that this is indeed what happened, but the Rebels would not be able to do it without direct assistance from the Kremlin, but this is likely a triangle deal, where the Rebels sell missile tech to NK, who gives the money to Russia, that uses the money to arm the separatists, right before a giant buildup in Belarus. Makes total sense now.

Ketchuponsteak: Of course, the only thing I've seen on the subject, is an BBC article, that only says its comming from Ukraine. Perhaps from corrupt factory workers.


Deutsche Welle links it to Soviet-Era technology and it is likely Russia working with Pro-Russian seperatists as a way to discredit the Maidan government at the same time as boosting Russia's military potential.
 
2017-09-12 10:00:48 AM  

Wessoman: Ketchuponsteak: I don't know how this helps Russia. Especially since they traditionally never exported their good stuff.

First of all, that's BS. Yes, Russia usually exports M models, but commonly export their "Good Stuff" when western weapons turn the M models into giant coffins. (See:The BTR-82A) Or--Did you just admit that Russia doesn't export their "Good" stuff and the guys in the BTR-82A's killing Syrian Civilians are Russian regular troops, as widely suspected?

And exporting Missile Tech greatly helps Russia, by tying up the west with North Korea, leaving their troop build up in Belarus unchecked, and "exercise" that looks poised to strike Ukraine or the Baltics.

Ketchuponsteak: But I wouldn't at all be surprised if some pro-Russian rebels are doing it, and pocketing some Nork money.

Actually, I agree that this is indeed what happened, but the Rebels would not be able to do it without direct assistance from the Kremlin, but this is likely a triangle deal, where the Rebels sell missile tech to NK, who gives the money to Russia, that uses the money to arm the separatists, right before a giant buildup in Belarus. Makes total sense now.

Ketchuponsteak: Of course, the only thing I've seen on the subject, is an BBC article, that only says its comming from Ukraine. Perhaps from corrupt factory workers.

Deutsche Welle links it to Soviet-Era technology and it is likely Russia working with Pro-Russian seperatists as a way to discredit the Maidan government at the same time as boosting Russia's military potential.


I'll agree with this assessment. Pro-Russian separatists likely sold it, using Russia as an intermediary. There's really no reason or way that Ukraine (government) would be able to export the tech to NK without someone in the west knowing.

but even if they did, they'd run a HUGE risk of pissing off the West, who are really the only thing preventing a total annexation by Russia
 
2017-09-12 11:05:15 AM  
I don't know if you have time to listen to this: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/24/podcasts/the-daily/north-korea-nuc​l​ear-missiles-ukraine.html?mcubz=3

It's from 8/24 so fairly recent. I have Ketchuponsteak highlighted as a Putinist but s/he's probably correct mostly because the market for these missile designers disappeared.

But that doesn't mean Putin isn't encouraging behavior to destabilize the region so he can take advantage.
 
2017-09-12 11:42:12 AM  
Global response huh?  So we are all going to sign the strongly worded letter?
 
2017-09-12 12:06:44 PM  

PluckYew: It's from 8/24 so fairly recent. I have Ketchuponsteak highlighted as a Putinist but s/he's probably correct mostly because the market for these missile designers disappeared.


He is a Putinist (Who immediately calls Ukrainian independence supporters "Nazis"??) but I agree that he is correct about the Missile deal: This is likely pro-Russian Ukrainian guerillas selling old soviet technology for modern Russian and North Korean weapons, using the Kremlin as an intermediary, because it helps the strategic objectives of both parties, and was likely engineered directly by Putin.
 
2017-09-12 12:18:51 PM  

Wessoman: Ketchuponsteak: I don't know how this helps Russia. Especially since they traditionally never exported their good stuff.

First of all, that's BS. Yes, Russia usually exports M models, but commonly export their "Good Stuff" when western weapons turn the M models into giant coffins. (See:The BTR-82A) Or--Did you just admit that Russia doesn't export their "Good" stuff and the guys in the BTR-82A's killing Syrian Civilians are Russian regular troops, as widely suspected?

And exporting Missile Tech greatly helps Russia, by tying up the west with North Korea, leaving their troop build up in Belarus unchecked, and "exercise" that looks poised to strike Ukraine or the Baltics.

Ketchuponsteak: But I wouldn't at all be surprised if some pro-Russian rebels are doing it, and pocketing some Nork money.

Actually, I agree that this is indeed what happened, but the Rebels would not be able to do it without direct assistance from the Kremlin, but this is likely a triangle deal, where the Rebels sell missile tech to NK, who gives the money to Russia, that uses the money to arm the separatists, right before a giant buildup in Belarus. Makes total sense now.

Ketchuponsteak: Of course, the only thing I've seen on the subject, is an BBC article, that only says its comming from Ukraine. Perhaps from corrupt factory workers.

Deutsche Welle links it to Soviet-Era technology and it is likely Russia working with Pro-Russian seperatists as a way to discredit the Maidan government at the same time as boosting Russia's military potential.


I'm in no position to admit or deny anything, despite morons saying they "marked" me as this or that.

To me, the Russian government giving the Norks missile tech doesn't make sense. They were already detonating nukes, and doing their best to launch missiles. And this is a country which gets foreign currency by exporting crack cocaine.

Who the fark knows with whom they'll share their new found knowledge. Anyone who has cash is my guess.
 
2017-09-12 12:36:23 PM  

Ketchuponsteak: To me, the Russian government giving the Norks missile tech doesn't make sense


Let's make it make sense for you:

1-Ukraine doesn't like Russia anymore, think they are poopyheads, and wants to join the European union.
2-Russia tries to stop Ukrainian revolution, sends troops into Crimea (After hilariously lying about it)
3-Russia attempts to split Ukraine, shoots down Malaysian jetliner, gets laughed at royally
4-Russia begins campaign against western governments, specifically targeting anti-Russian Hillary Clinton. Talks begin with GOP and Green party operatives/candidates.
5-Russia goes all in on trump, shills appear everywhere, election meddling successful.
6-Trump elected, first order is a "Muslim Ban", designed to further destabilize the EU, namely France (THAT doesn't work!)
7-Trump launches fake missile attack in Syria (letting Putin move his planes), a coverup most likely as Trump fires Comey (Investigating Russian collusion) and tries to kill the investigation
8-As more evidence of Russia/Trump collusion mounts, North Korea suddenly gets good at their missiles and launches, causing Trump to go into "War Mode" and trying to kill Russia from the headlines.
9-Trump pushes the US to war, as Putin readies the 2nd Guards Tank Army in Belarus. The US only has one rapid deployment corps (The XVIII Corps), so if it is deployed the US cannot deploy ground forces to counter the Russians in 3-6 months, and will tie up Naval and Air assets for weeks.
10-NK detonates Nuke as Russians fully mobilized in Belarus. NATO commander readies forces in Baltics. And we are here.

Russia, giving tech to North Korea, opens a window of opportunity for them to take all of Ukraine. This may have been entirely what the Election/Collusion is all about, or at least the early stages of a master plan.
 
2017-09-12 12:57:37 PM  

Wessoman: Ketchuponsteak: To me, the Russian government giving the Norks missile tech doesn't make sense

Let's make it make sense for you:

1-Ukraine doesn't like Russia anymore, think they are poopyheads, and wants to join the European union.
2-Russia tries to stop Ukrainian revolution, sends troops into Crimea (After hilariously lying about it)
3-Russia attempts to split Ukraine, shoots down Malaysian jetliner, gets laughed at royally
4-Russia begins campaign against western governments, specifically targeting anti-Russian Hillary Clinton. Talks begin with GOP and Green party operatives/candidates.
5-Russia goes all in on trump, shills appear everywhere, election meddling successful.
6-Trump elected, first order is a "Muslim Ban", designed to further destabilize the EU, namely France (THAT doesn't work!)
7-Trump launches fake missile attack in Syria (letting Putin move his planes), a coverup most likely as Trump fires Comey (Investigating Russian collusion) and tries to kill the investigation
8-As more evidence of Russia/Trump collusion mounts, North Korea suddenly gets good at their missiles and launches, causing Trump to go into "War Mode" and trying to kill Russia from the headlines.
9-Trump pushes the US to war, as Putin readies the 2nd Guards Tank Army in Belarus. The US only has one rapid deployment corps (The XVIII Corps), so if it is deployed the US cannot deploy ground forces to counter the Russians in 3-6 months, and will tie up Naval and Air assets for weeks.
10-NK detonates Nuke as Russians fully mobilized in Belarus. NATO commander readies forces in Baltics. And we are here.

Russia, giving tech to North Korea, opens a window of opportunity for them to take all of Ukraine. This may have been entirely what the Election/Collusion is all about, or at least the early stages of a master plan.


Ukraine isn't going to join the EU. Regardless of Russias actions there not being acceptable, that doesn't really change the fact that Ukraine is a corrupt shiathole engaged in a civil war.

Ukraine has broken every single promise they've made to the EU, right from the treaty they signed with the EU about the civil war (you know, the one that the Polish foreign minister was caught on TV saying "if you break this EU bargained treaty, you're all going to die").

Well, perhaps one day. But we're talking decades. Trade deals with the EU, sure, but joining with all that entails. That's not in the cards now.

---

Your history lesson had some fascinating points. If Trumps collusion with Russia goes that deep, that would be insane.

On the Norks missiles seemingly starting to work. I kinda have the feeling that they've somehow improved on the actual production part of it. They had some successes before, like launching a satellite into space (which didn't work, but whatever).

If you remember the USA rocket program, they got tech from the Nazis. But they blew up as well, until they literally capitulated and put them in charge of the program. As in, they lead it, and micromanaged it so they worked.

I kinda wonder if it would have been enough for the Norks to just get a blueprint, and if they wouldn't actually also need some advisors on site.

Shrug, I can think of other parties that the Russians could help out, like Iran. That of course ignores the notion that Trump is in on it.
 
2017-09-12 01:34:26 PM  

Ketchuponsteak: Ukraine isn't going to join the EU. Regardless of Russias actions there not being acceptable, that doesn't really change the fact that Ukraine is a corrupt shiathole engaged in a civil war.


Wow...That's a lot of wishful thinking and Russian nonsense there..It explains why you automatically assume people who are pro-Ukrainian independence are "Nazis".

Ketchuponsteak: Your history lesson had some fascinating points. If Trumps collusion with Russia goes that deep, that would be insane.


Trump's administration is insane. Considering his stupidity, and Putin's craven lust for power, I think I can simply assume that the collusion does go that deep. Here in the US, we have been gaslighted by the Russia investigation being a "Nothingburger" by GOP and Russian shills for so long, that a reverse feedback has occurred where the vast majority of Americans who aren't in Cult 45 think that there is clear collusion between Trump and Russia.

Ketchuponsteak: On the Norks missiles seemingly starting to work. I kinda have the feeling that they've somehow improved on the actual production part of it.


Russian expertise can do that.

Ketchuponsteak: If you remember the USA rocket program, they got tech from the Nazis. But they blew up as well, until they literally capitulated and put them in charge of the program. As in, they lead it, and micromanaged it so they worked.


You really don't understand Dr. Von Braun or El-Baz (Who was not a Nazi) or American space development, but believe me, the Nazis did NOT lead it. Von Braun was the planner, but James Webb was the lead, and HE micromanaged, not Von Braun. I find it curious, Comrade, that you don't know obvious key historical points of the American space program, but reached directly for the Soviet/Russian narrative (NASA was all Nazis!).

I think the better analogy would be the Korean War, where Russian pilots and ground crews helped North Korea with MiG-15 technology. I feel a similar programme was used in North Korea with their missile technology. Russians have historically sent Technical Advisors to accomplish foreign policy goals.

Ketchuponsteak: Shrug, I can think of other parties that the Russians could help out, like Iran. That of course ignores the notion that Trump is in on it.


Russia will help whomever will advance their foreign policy goals. That has been their idee fixe since the end of the Cold War.
 
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