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(USA Today)   So, it looks like Russia meddled in the political affairs of 27 other countries, using myriad methods to sow discord and otherwise cause chaos with elections or to discredit political figures   ( usatoday.com) divider line
    More: Scary, Russia, alleged Russian interference, United States, Russian presidential election, Russian propaganda effort, 2016 presidential election, alleged Russian crime, French election interference  
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1294 clicks; posted to Politics » on 07 Sep 2017 at 1:20 PM (6 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2017-09-07 11:04:29 AM  
img.fark.net
 
2017-09-07 11:23:57 AM  
"It might have been Russia, it might have been a 400-pound guy on his bed"
img.fark.net
 
2017-09-07 11:33:57 AM  

Walker: "It might have been Russia, it might have been a 400-pound guy on his bed"


"It might have been a 400-pound Russian guy on his bed"
 
2017-09-07 11:45:21 AM  
2016 -- Portugul!!!!!
 
2017-09-07 12:14:30 PM  
Christ, that is a really sobering map. That also really explains the sudden shift rightward in Europe.

I'm curious if the recent anti-nazi shift of the Russian twitter bots is due to the Canadian elections and not Charlottesville. We tend to think the world revolves around us.
 
2017-09-07 12:19:38 PM  
Many sides
 
2017-09-07 12:42:49 PM  
Why can't we just nuke them?
 
2017-09-07 12:56:56 PM  
As I recall our own CIA has been doing this thing since its inception post WWII.  Interfering with elections and removing leaders we don't like.  The world stage is an ugly place.  When you find out your own country by can be manipulated by these tricks I guess it really stings.
 
2017-09-07 01:08:23 PM  
I mean, haven't countries gone to war over this?
 
2017-09-07 01:16:20 PM  

raerae1980: I mean, haven't countries gone to war over this?


shiat, they've gone to war over far less
 
2017-09-07 01:17:50 PM  

jwa007: As I recall our own CIA has been doing this thing since its inception post WWII.  Interfering with elections and removing leaders we don't like.  The world stage is an ugly place.  When you find out your own country by can be manipulated by these tricks I guess it really stings.


did you just whataboutism'd this? Really? *eyeroll*

just remember how all those countries eventually turned out. Anyone we put in was normally met with a violent civil war/revolution
 
2017-09-07 01:21:11 PM  

somedude210: raerae1980: I mean, haven't countries gone to war over this?

shiat, they've gone to war over far less


That's what I thought.   F*cking Russia....
 
2017-09-07 01:22:04 PM  

somedude210: raerae1980: I mean, haven't countries gone to war over this?

shiat, they've gone to war over far less


The war of 1812 was fought over toothpaste supplies. We won.
 
2017-09-07 01:24:22 PM  

STDMan69: somedude210: raerae1980: I mean, haven't countries gone to war over this?

shiat, they've gone to war over far less

The war of 1812 was fought over toothpaste supplies. We won.


cdn.history.com
 
2017-09-07 01:24:24 PM  
Yes, America, you are not that special.

/ The results suggest you might have been easier though...
 
2017-09-07 01:24:35 PM  

somedude210: raerae1980: I mean, haven't countries gone to war over this?

shiat, they've gone to war over far less

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pig_War_(1906%E2%80%9308)

technically it was a trade war, but still
 
2017-09-07 01:24:57 PM  

somedude210: jwa007: As I recall our own CIA has been doing this thing since its inception post WWII.  Interfering with elections and removing leaders we don't like.  The world stage is an ugly place.  When you find out your own country by can be manipulated by these tricks I guess it really stings.

did you just whataboutism'd this? Really? *eyeroll*

just remember how all those countries eventually turned out. Anyone we put in was normally met with a violent civil war/revolution


You go!  Defend Murica, right or wrong.
 
2017-09-07 01:25:33 PM  

jwa007: As I recall our own CIA has been doing this thing since its inception post WWII.  Interfering with elections and removing leaders we don't like.  The world stage is an ugly place.  When you find out your own country by can be manipulated by these tricks I guess it really stings.


THAT DOESNT MAKE IT OKAY.

This "what about?" bullshiat has got to stop.
 
2017-09-07 01:27:00 PM  

thehobbes: STDMan69: somedude210: raerae1980: I mean, haven't countries gone to war over this?

shiat, they've gone to war over far less

The war of 1812 was fought over toothpaste supplies. We won.

[cdn.history.com image 686x385]


Take that 10 Downing Street! USA!
 
2017-09-07 01:27:01 PM  
Remember when the US used to orchestrate actual coups in 3rd world countries across globe? It wasn't -that- long ago (1970s?) that it was still legal to assassinate foreign leaders whom Americans didn't like.  Makes a little election meddling seem pedestrian by comparison.
 
2017-09-07 01:28:14 PM  

somedude210: jwa007: As I recall our own CIA has been doing this thing since its inception post WWII.  Interfering with elections and removing leaders we don't like.  The world stage is an ugly place.  When you find out your own country by can be manipulated by these tricks I guess it really stings.

did you just whataboutism'd this? Really? *eyeroll*

just remember how all those countries eventually turned out. Anyone we put in was normally met with a violent civil war/revolution


I'll just leave this here
 
2017-09-07 01:28:36 PM  
Russia isn't the reason Trump won, but it certainly helped.
 
2017-09-07 01:29:33 PM  

jwa007: As I recall our own CIA has been doing this thing since its inception post WWII.  Interfering with elections and removing leaders we don't like.  The world stage is an ugly place.  When you find out your own country by can be manipulated by these tricks I guess it really stings.


Us having done shiat doesn't make the same shiat being done by others any less terrible.

You're making excuses for what's going on right now. That's the action of someone who's either intellectually absurdly lazy and refuses to deal with current events, or is a Russian apparachik/bot.
 
2017-09-07 01:29:39 PM  
And?
 
2017-09-07 01:30:24 PM  

Shaggy_C: Remember when the US used to orchestrate actual coups in 3rd world countries across globe? It wasn't -that- long ago (1970s?) that it was still legal to assassinate foreign leaders whom Americans didn't like.  Makes a little election meddling seem pedestrian by comparison.


Remember this guy?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Honduran_coup_d%27état
 
2017-09-07 01:30:24 PM  

BalugaJoe: [img.fark.net image 600x900]


It could be post-apocalyptic winter and I'd probably still giggle at that meme.
 
stk [TotalFark]
2017-09-07 01:31:05 PM  

jwa007: somedude210: jwa007: As I recall our own CIA has been doing this thing since its inception post WWII.  Interfering with elections and removing leaders we don't like.  The world stage is an ugly place.  When you find out your own country by can be manipulated by these tricks I guess it really stings.

did you just whataboutism'd this? Really? *eyeroll*

just remember how all those countries eventually turned out. Anyone we put in was normally met with a violent civil war/revolution

You go!  Defend Murica, right or wrong.


America at its worst is still better than Russia
 
2017-09-07 01:31:23 PM  

jwa007: As I recall our own CIA has been doing this thing since its inception post WWII.  Interfering with elections and removing leaders we don't like.  The world stage is an ugly place.  When you find out your own country by can be manipulated by these tricks I guess it really stings.


Missed your comment before I posted - sorry to essentially reiterate your point.

In this circumstance it's much like the arguments about Citizens United. Actual people still cast the votes; if your populace is so easily swayed by false information, it says a lot more about your country (and perhaps the folly of democracy in general) than about those who are only taking logical action in their national interest.
 
2017-09-07 01:31:36 PM  

somedude210: jwa007: As I recall our own CIA has been doing this thing since its inception post WWII.  Interfering with elections and removing leaders we don't like.  The world stage is an ugly place.  When you find out your own country by can be manipulated by these tricks I guess it really stings.

did you just whataboutism'd this? Really? *eyeroll*

just remember how all those countries eventually turned out. Anyone we put in was normally met with a violent civil war/revolution


For literally decades we supported and funded anti-democratic rightwing death-squad-owning military dictatorships in Central and South America.  It's the main reason they took a far left turn in recent years and shut the US out of regional trade and security.

Just recently we helped overthrow the Honduran government and installed a good little puppet.

Russia is far behind the US in installing and supporting non-democratic military dictatorships.
 
2017-09-07 01:31:50 PM  
Do they even teach Cold War in schools. I was taught it in Elementary School. Each day you go to point out new 10 hot spots on the globe that the Russian had started fires in.
 
2017-09-07 01:32:22 PM  

Bloody William: jwa007: As I recall our own CIA has been doing this thing since its inception post WWII.  Interfering with elections and removing leaders we don't like.  The world stage is an ugly place.  When you find out your own country by can be manipulated by these tricks I guess it really stings.

Us having done shiat doesn't make the same shiat being done by others any less terrible.

You're making excuses for what's going on right now. That's the action of someone who's either intellectually absurdly lazy and refuses to deal with current events, or is a Russian apparachik/bot.


For some reason people dislike hypocracy. Go figure.
 
2017-09-07 01:32:27 PM  
What we did, or even do, does not excuse what they are doing.
 
2017-09-07 01:32:34 PM  
So the problem is too many suckers alive today are going to capsize the planet with their stupidity? Well that blows.
 
2017-09-07 01:32:59 PM  

thehobbes: STDMan69: somedude210: raerae1980: I mean, haven't countries gone to war over this?

shiat, they've gone to war over far less

The war of 1812 was fought over toothpaste supplies. We won.

[cdn.history.com image 686x385]


he didn't say which side he was on, sheesh!
 
2017-09-07 01:33:11 PM  

cranked: Walker: "It might have been Russia, it might have been a 400-pound guy on his bed"

"It might have been a 400-pound Russian guy on his bed"


"It might have been a couple 13 year old girls peeing on the bed"
 
2017-09-07 01:33:42 PM  

Magruda: Bloody William: jwa007: As I recall our own CIA has been doing this thing since its inception post WWII.  Interfering with elections and removing leaders we don't like.  The world stage is an ugly place.  When you find out your own country by can be manipulated by these tricks I guess it really stings.

Us having done shiat doesn't make the same shiat being done by others any less terrible.

You're making excuses for what's going on right now. That's the action of someone who's either intellectually absurdly lazy and refuses to deal with current events, or is a Russian apparachik/bot.

For some reason people dislike hypocracy. Go figure.


Hypocrisy. And if people really disliked it, Trump wouldn't be president and Congress would completely flip every two years.

Or maybe what you think sounds pithy is just entirely vacuous and doesn't address the very present issue of Russia interfering in our affairs and the affairs of dozens of other countries. It certainly doesn't excuse it in any way.
 
2017-09-07 01:33:53 PM  

Shaggy_C: Remember when the US used to orchestrate actual coups in 3rd world countries across globe? It wasn't -that- long ago (1970s?) that it was still legal to assassinate foreign leaders whom Americans didn't like.  Makes a little election meddling seem pedestrian by comparison.


Many sides
d1o50x50snmhul.cloudfront.net .
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Storm-333
 
2017-09-07 01:34:29 PM  

Shaggy_C: jwa007: As I recall our own CIA has been doing this thing since its inception post WWII.  Interfering with elections and removing leaders we don't like.  The world stage is an ugly place.  When you find out your own country by can be manipulated by these tricks I guess it really stings.

Missed your comment before I posted - sorry to essentially reiterate your point.

In this circumstance it's much like the arguments about Citizens United. Actual people still cast the votes; if your populace is so easily swayed by false information, it says a lot more about your country (and perhaps the folly of democracy in general) than about those who are only taking logical action in their national interest.


That is a stretch. Campaign donations have a direct effect on elections. Arguing otherwise is shear nonsense.
 
2017-09-07 01:34:30 PM  

Magruda: Shaggy_C: Remember when the US used to orchestrate actual coups in 3rd world countries across globe? It wasn't -that- long ago (1970s?) that it was still legal to assassinate foreign leaders whom Americans didn't like.  Makes a little election meddling seem pedestrian by comparison.

Remember this guy?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Honduran_coup_d%27état


But her emails indeed:
Emails released later show that the 2009 coup was supported by Hillary Clinton's State Department. Clinton and her team worked behind the scenes to stall efforts by neighboring countries through the Organization of American States to restore Manuel Zelaya to office. "The OAS meeting today turned into a non-event ― just as we hoped," wrote one senior State Department official, celebrating their success in slow-walking a restoration.
 
2017-09-07 01:34:34 PM  

jwa007: somedude210: jwa007: As I recall our own CIA has been doing this thing since its inception post WWII.  Interfering with elections and removing leaders we don't like.  The world stage is an ugly place.  When you find out your own country by can be manipulated by these tricks I guess it really stings.

did you just whataboutism'd this? Really? *eyeroll*

just remember how all those countries eventually turned out. Anyone we put in was normally met with a violent civil war/revolution

You go!  Defend Murica, right or wrong.


I'm not defending it. Hell that second statement was explain the result of when countries do shiat like this. Why did you insist on deflecting with your whataboutism bullshiat?
 
2017-09-07 01:35:47 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: Why can't we just nuke them?


The chuckle-heads of the world who are way too easily duped by propaganda? They're kind of spread out.
 
2017-09-07 01:35:50 PM  

Gyrfalcon: jwa007: As I recall our own CIA has been doing this thing since its inception post WWII.  Interfering with elections and removing leaders we don't like.  The world stage is an ugly place.  When you find out your own country by can be manipulated by these tricks I guess it really stings.

THAT DOESNT MAKE IT OKAY.

This "what about?" bullshiat has got to stop.


Maybe I'm being overly generous here, but I think it is worthwhile to remind ourselves that we've done this shiat too--not to absolve anyone, but to maybe plant the seed that it's a bad thing no matter who does it. The US could certainly stand to be less meddlesome, since we're not very good at it.

All of that said, we should have smacked the Russians down hard for this. Sanctions don't seem like nearly enough.
 
2017-09-07 01:36:17 PM  
I'm not so surprised that it happened, but by how successful it was.
 
2017-09-07 01:36:34 PM  

Nadie_AZ: Russia isn't the reason Trump won, but it certainly helped.


if we remove all the Russian stuff from the election/Trump campaign, we'd be left with two cats fighting over the hairball that is Trump.

they didn't win it for him, but if he didn't have Russia supporting him, it's hard to see how he makes it out of the primary
 
2017-09-07 01:36:35 PM  

Bloody William: Magruda: Bloody William: jwa007: As I recall our own CIA has been doing this thing since its inception post WWII.  Interfering with elections and removing leaders we don't like.  The world stage is an ugly place.  When you find out your own country by can be manipulated by these tricks I guess it really stings.

Us having done shiat doesn't make the same shiat being done by others any less terrible.

You're making excuses for what's going on right now. That's the action of someone who's either intellectually absurdly lazy and refuses to deal with current events, or is a Russian apparachik/bot.

For some reason people dislike hypocracy. Go figure.

Hypocrisy. And if people really disliked it, Trump wouldn't be president and Congress would completely flip every two years.

Or maybe what you think sounds pithy is just entirely vacuous and doesn't address the very present issue of Russia interfering in our affairs and the affairs of dozens of other countries. It certainly doesn't excuse it in any way.


The difference is when we meddle in elections we do it out of Christian love and altruism and Russia does it for greed and nefarious purposes.  Duh.
 
2017-09-07 01:37:15 PM  

Lochsteppe: Gyrfalcon: jwa007: As I recall our own CIA has been doing this thing since its inception post WWII.  Interfering with elections and removing leaders we don't like.  The world stage is an ugly place.  When you find out your own country by can be manipulated by these tricks I guess it really stings.

THAT DOESNT MAKE IT OKAY.

This "what about?" bullshiat has got to stop.

Maybe I'm being overly generous here, but I think it is worthwhile to remind ourselves that we've done this shiat too--not to absolve anyone, but to maybe plant the seed that it's a bad thing no matter who does it. The US could certainly stand to be less meddlesome, since we're not very good at it.

All of that said, we should have smacked the Russians down hard for this. Sanctions don't seem like nearly enough.


We should definitely cut out our own shiat on that front. The problem is when it's brought up IMMEDIATELY when any discussion about recent and ongoing manipulations by Russia, it's used only to prevent criticism of Russia for those actions, not as cause for us to rethink our own policies.
 
2017-09-07 01:37:16 PM  

jethroe: Russia is far behind the US in installing and supporting non-democratic military dictatorships.


What about Russian Empire and Soviet Union?
 
2017-09-07 01:37:47 PM  

Bloody William: What we did, or even do, does not excuse what they are doing.


No, but for those of us who have been protesting the crap pulled by the CIA for decades (not just on the basis of the moral wrongness of it but of the actual worsening of situations by it - like driving Latin American countries toward Soviet support during the cold war), it's an opportunity to get some additional light on those misdeeds and to get people who previously might have just shrugged them off to think a little harder about whether we should engage in such practices.
 
2017-09-07 01:38:01 PM  

Magruda: That is a stretch. Campaign donations have a direct effect on elections. Arguing otherwise is shear nonsense.


Debatable; Trump, for instance, had far less ad spend than his opponent and still eked out a victory. Democracy fundamentally depends on a well-informed populace and that is its fatal flaw.
 
2017-09-07 01:38:08 PM  

Bloody William: Magruda: Bloody William: jwa007: As I recall our own CIA has been doing this thing since its inception post WWII.  Interfering with elections and removing leaders we don't like.  The world stage is an ugly place.  When you find out your own country by can be manipulated by these tricks I guess it really stings.

Us having done shiat doesn't make the same shiat being done by others any less terrible.

You're making excuses for what's going on right now. That's the action of someone who's either intellectually absurdly lazy and refuses to deal with current events, or is a Russian apparachik/bot.

For some reason people dislike hypocracy. Go figure.

Hypocrisy. And if people really disliked it, Trump wouldn't be president and Congress would completely flip every two years.

Or maybe what you think sounds pithy is just entirely vacuous and doesn't address the very present issue of Russia interfering in our affairs and the affairs of dozens of other countries. It certainly doesn't excuse it in any way.


img.fark.net

You must first remove the log from your own eye.
 
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