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(Gallup)   Are you in a union? Has it done anything for you?   ( gallup.com) divider line
    More: Interesting, unions, Trade union, labor unions, Democratic Party, Republican Party, approval, Collective bargaining, union approval  
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249 clicks; posted to Discussion » on 02 Sep 2017 at 12:02 AM (7 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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ZAZ [TotalFark]
2017-09-01 08:17:30 PM  
No. Software isn't unionized and my few, long-ago manual labor jobs were for tiny businesses.

My sister is in a union and thinks it does some good. She's in TV and movies (behind the camera) and there are some sleazy producers to fight. Also, I think that's one of the unions that has a pension plan. When you change employers frequently you can't build up an employer-sponsored retirement plan. Some unions provide retirement funds as a service to members.
 
2017-09-01 08:22:13 PM  
Collective bargaining is awesome
 
2017-09-01 08:24:21 PM  
I'm in a more perfect union.
 
2017-09-01 08:25:29 PM  

Circusdog320: Collective bargaining is awesome


Really? I think I can get a better deal for myself.

I needed 3 weeks of vacation rather than 2 at my current job and I negotiated for it. Nobody else asked for it when they where hired.

No collective bargaining for me, I'll look out for my own interest myself thanks.
 
2017-09-01 08:26:13 PM  
My brother joined UPS when he was 20 years old, and UPS was still privately held.  He was in the Teamsters union.  But enough about that.  Check out what UPS was like.

Decent pay for a HS education, and the heath care - the 300 driver facility HAD THEIR OWN FREAKING DOCTOR ON SITE IN THE FACILITY EVERY DAY.  You could see the doctor any time you wanted, and for a small price so could your family, if I am not mistaken.  They had saving plans, the best one of which was limited to only about a $20 a week contribution, but it paid out a 22% return IN YOUR NAME.  No way for the corporation to steal it, as I understand it.

Then Wall Street took it over and turned the place to shiat.

My brother now draws a dynamite Teamsters pension that he worked 30 years to earn.  He farking hates the Teamsters.  Hates all unions.  In America, they've been corrupted into a farce.
 
2017-09-01 08:29:17 PM  

Circusdog320: Collective bargaining is awesome


^ This.
 
2017-09-01 08:29:53 PM  

feckingmorons: No collective bargaining for me, I'll look out for my own interest myself thanks.


You sound like you write software for a living.
 
2017-09-01 08:35:32 PM  
I was, it did. Amongst other things, an apprenticeship, wage structure, and healthcare.  Additionally, since law is written by and favors those wealthy enough to employ and argue with legislators, the union and others like it provides the only representation most employed will ever have. In this day and age, when some individuals and many cabals could easily hire half the population to kill the other half, we could use more unions.
 
2017-09-01 08:40:07 PM  

Urmuf Hamer: I was, it did


Handle checks out.
 
2017-09-01 08:42:22 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: feckingmorons: No collective bargaining for me, I'll look out for my own interest myself thanks.

You sound like you write software for a living.


No, I sit on my ass an pontificate mostly, sometimes I manage a few things.
 
2017-09-01 08:46:57 PM  

feckingmorons: Circusdog320: Collective bargaining is awesome

Really? I think I can get a better deal for myself.

I needed 3 weeks of vacation rather than 2 at my current job and I negotiated for it. Nobody else asked for it when they where hired.

No collective bargaining for me, I'll look out for my own interest myself thanks.


Jesus, you're proud of yourself for getting a whole three weeks off?

Are you talking about when you got hired or after?
 
2017-09-01 08:52:57 PM  

SoupGuru: Are you talking about when you got hired or after?


Ones things for sure is he doesn't write software, he didn't get the 50% late joke.
 
2017-09-01 08:54:20 PM  

feckingmorons: Marcus Aurelius: feckingmorons: No collective bargaining for me, I'll look out for my own interest myself thanks.

You sound like you write software for a living.

No, I sit on my ass an pontificate mostly, sometimes I manage a few things.


You're Irishia

this explains everything!
 
2017-09-01 08:54:21 PM  

SoupGuru: feckingmorons: Circusdog320: Collective bargaining is awesome

Really? I think I can get a better deal for myself.

I needed 3 weeks of vacation rather than 2 at my current job and I negotiated for it. Nobody else asked for it when they where hired.

No collective bargaining for me, I'll look out for my own interest myself thanks.

Jesus, you're proud of yourself for getting a whole three weeks off?

Are you talking about when you got hired or after?


When I got hired. I had 3 weeks at the previous place and I asked for the same thing without asking for more money than they were offering. How do you negotiate for something when you've already accepted the bargain; how could I do it after I got hired?
 
2017-09-01 08:55:12 PM  
Irishia?

My explclamationia key is giving me trouble.
 
2017-09-01 08:56:18 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: SoupGuru: Are you talking about when you got hired or after?

Ones things for sure is he doesn't write software, he didn't get the 50% late joke.


No I don't code save but the very occasional bit. I live in the US.
 
2017-09-01 09:14:54 PM  

feckingmorons: Circusdog320: Collective bargaining is awesome

Really? I think I can get a better deal for myself.

I needed 3 weeks of vacation rather than 2 at my current job and I negotiated for it. Nobody else asked for it when they where hired.

No collective bargaining for me, I'll look out for my own interest myself thanks.


Wouldn It be better to get the same thing for your fellow workers?

You sound selfish.

Have a swell day
 
2017-09-01 09:20:02 PM  

feckingmorons: Marcus Aurelius: feckingmorons: No collective bargaining for me, I'll look out for my own interest myself thanks.

You sound like you write software for a living.

No, I sit on my ass an pontificate mostly, sometimes I manage a few things.


So management
 
2017-09-01 09:25:56 PM  

feckingmorons: SoupGuru: feckingmorons: Circusdog320: Collective bargaining is awesome

Really? I think I can get a better deal for myself.

I needed 3 weeks of vacation rather than 2 at my current job and I negotiated for it. Nobody else asked for it when they where hired.

No collective bargaining for me, I'll look out for my own interest myself thanks.

Jesus, you're proud of yourself for getting a whole three weeks off?

Are you talking about when you got hired or after?

When I got hired. I had 3 weeks at the previous place and I asked for the same thing without asking for more money than they were offering. How do you negotiate for something when you've already accepted the bargain; how could I do it after I got hired?


3 whole weeks?  Wow, you are truly a crack negotiator.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_minimum_annual_leave_by_country​
 
2017-09-01 09:34:59 PM  

Circusdog320: feckingmorons: Circusdog320: Collective bargaining is awesome

Really? I think I can get a better deal for myself.

I needed 3 weeks of vacation rather than 2 at my current job and I negotiated for it. Nobody else asked for it when they where hired.

No collective bargaining for me, I'll look out for my own interest myself thanks.

Wouldn It be better to get the same thing for your fellow workers?

You sound selfish.

Have a swell day


My fellow workers don't have my skill set or doctorates.
 
2017-09-01 09:35:08 PM  
I spent many years teaching at community colleges, including 5 years in Oregon. In Oregon we were unionized, and while there was some indefensible bullshiat (defending employees who were actually in the wrong), our wages and benefits were excellent. Now I  am in Idaho, a state that has systematically destroyed unions, and I'm making probably half of what I  would be making if I stayed in OR. (I have family reasons to be here and money isn't everything, but unions rock).
 
2017-09-01 09:43:24 PM  

SoupGuru: feckingmorons: SoupGuru: feckingmorons: Circusdog320: Collective bargaining is awesome

Really? I think I can get a better deal for myself.

I needed 3 weeks of vacation rather than 2 at my current job and I negotiated for it. Nobody else asked for it when they where hired.

No collective bargaining for me, I'll look out for my own interest myself thanks.

Jesus, you're proud of yourself for getting a whole three weeks off?

Are you talking about when you got hired or after?

When I got hired. I had 3 weeks at the previous place and I asked for the same thing without asking for more money than they were offering. How do you negotiate for something when you've already accepted the bargain; how could I do it after I got hired?

3 whole weeks?  Wow, you are truly a crack negotiator.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_minimum_annual_leave_by_country


I also get 13 paid holidays for a total of 34 paid days off. Given the chart shown in your link the mean total days off are 20.3134715, with the std deviation being 7.366013578
so I am just slightly short of 2 std deviations above the mean and if we assume a normal distribution that is greater that 98% of the people who get paid vacation.

Have a nice day.
 
2017-09-01 09:46:12 PM  

feckingmorons: My fellow workers don't have my skill set or doctorates.


So you're on sabbatical then.
 
2017-09-01 09:47:40 PM  

revrendjim: unions rock


Unions are one of the few mechanisms that can properly regulate capitalism.
 
2017-09-01 09:48:32 PM  

feckingmorons: I also get


What you're got there is what's called a square job.
 
2017-09-01 10:08:24 PM  
Police unions are the absolute worst

Keeping bad cops on the streets hurts our country
 
2017-09-01 10:35:36 PM  
Oh hell yes. What kind of wages would teachers get without collective bargaining? Florida wages, that's what. Florida where a substitute teacher with a bachelor's degree makes a dollar or two over minimum age, and with a master's degree 2 or 3 dollars over minimum.
 
2017-09-01 10:53:36 PM  
YOU WILL TAKE WHAT WE OFFER WITHOUT COMPLAINT
 
2017-09-01 11:01:02 PM  
I am in a more perfect u....

feckingmorons: I'm in a more perfect union.


god.

DAMMIT.
 
2017-09-01 11:48:13 PM  
Haven't been a union member since my very first job at Fred Meyer.

Though I did have a temp job doing data entry for AFSCME for a while. And yes, I'm fully aware of the irony of temping for a labor union. They did pay me $15 an hour under the table, so that was cool.
 
2017-09-02 12:06:06 AM  
Enjoying your weekend? Your 40 hour work week? NOT DYING on the job?  Thank unions - and the people WHO DIED giving it to you.  Yes, even you, you stinking, hypocritical conservatives.
 
2017-09-02 12:07:11 AM  
yes, actually I am in a union and yes they do quite a lot for me.
 
2017-09-02 12:22:41 AM  
I've been in two unions, Teamsters & AFSCME.  Without a doubt the Teamsters were the better of the two in my experience.  Unfortunately we, as a nation, became too comfortable with what was hard fought for by those workers we honor this Labor Day weekend and stopped fighting. Now we are seeing workers rights and benefits decline.  Hopefully we'll start attending union meetings and work to stop this trend, but I'm not holding my breath.
 
2017-09-02 12:44:16 AM  
I was a Teamster with UPS years ago. The workers knew the system and worked the system to their benefit. Payday was Thursday. The lazy asses didn't show up on Friday. They knew what the collectively bargained discipline would be and how long it stayed in their file. They pushed it to the limit, then shaped up long enough to let the discipline drop out of their file. Rinse, repeat. My father was tool and die with General Motors for 33 years. He has tales of laziness that would flip you out. The laziest workers I ever saw were union workers. I currently workning a non-union building. Other branches of our business are unionized. When we have union employees transfer in, they are inevitably the most lazy, entitled f*ckers ever. I get that unions wete once necessary, but no more.
 
2017-09-02 12:48:38 AM  
Yes. Yes. Benefits have paid my dues many times over. We've never gone on strike. Everybody happy. Which is supposed to be the point.
 
2017-09-02 12:58:31 AM  
No, and I'm no longer salary either. So I'm not really a fan of Labor Day at the moment, I'd rather work it than lose a day's pay, plus much of my overtime for that work week. It's not going to break the bank or anything, not even close, but it has made me see the other, other side of that particular issue. Of course I'm glad to not be working 65 hour weeks on salary anymore, so there is that.
 
2017-09-02 01:01:16 AM  
I am in a union. And I get a lot in terms of wages and additional benefits because of it. I'm paid a good hourly wage, yet I'm always able to negotiate for more. I get pension benefits paid by my employers. I get a ridiculously good health insurance benefit, again, paid by my employers. All doctor visits are a $5 copay. Prescriptions, dental, vision, and mental health benefits.
And notice that I said employers (plural.) I could work a dozen different jobs in a year, for a dozen different companies, but my wages and benefits are contractually negotiated, no matter who I'm working for.
In the non-union end of my business, it's not unuasual for workers to be stiffed on pay. For employers to try to pay workers as 'independent contractors' on a 1099 rather than as an employee. To not pay health benefits, or even (since they're 'independent contractors') to not get Workers Comp coverage if they're injured on the job, or Unemployment once they're laid off at the end of a gig. It's not unusual for unscrupulous producers to claim they'll 'take care of you on the next job' if you'll work for free on this one. To work crews long hours without meal breaks, to forego safety equipment, to not pay overtime. All things that are mandated by my negotiated contracts.
 
2017-09-02 01:24:01 AM  
Union guy here. Not only do I get an excellent salary and a medical/dental/visual package described as "Cadillac", but I also have a defined-benefit pension. I know the fear of retiring into poverty, or retiring without knowing from one month to the next how much money you'll have to live on, is an exciting adventure for some. I'll pass, thanks.
 
2017-09-02 01:27:22 AM  

Chinesenookiefactory: I get that unions wete once necessary, but no more.


Gonna have to go ahead and disagree with you there.  Non-union auto parts suppliers in the South have have an utterly atrocious safety record.

https://www.osha.gov/news/newsreleases/region4/12142016
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2017-03-23/inside-alabama-s-a​u​to-jobs-boom-cheap-wages-little-training-crushed-limbs
https://www.buzzfeed.com/coralewis/hyundai-under-fire-for-serious-saf​e​ty-violations-by-supplier?utm_term=.rfM3P8WVe5#.jmg1qV0GOz

I'm salary in a union auto assembly plant in the US, and I interact with union guys (UAW) every day as part of my job.  From my vantage point, it's a mixed bag.  At its best, the union does a great job with encouraging safety (and enforcing safety rules on the floor).  I get our company's global safety report every week, and most weeks there aren't even any injuries to report anywhere in the world.  The stuff you see in those southern plants is shocking to me.  That shiat just doesn't happen here.  The union also demands certain standards from suppliers, so we wouldn't allow dangerous workplaces like those into our supply chain---and I think that's great.

The union also obviously helps with worker wages.  Working on the line sucks.  I make quite a bit more than the union salary, but I wouldn't work down there even for my higher paycheck.  I also get to experience some benefits of collective bargaining; namely holidays and premium pay for working night/weekend shifts.  They make a lot considering the minimal education requirements, but most of the jobs on the floor legitimately suck and I don't begrudge them their wages one bit.

That's not to say it's all great.  I definitely see lazy and worthless people.  It's about 10/80/10.  10% are parasites, 10% are great and go the extra mile.  The other 80% just show up and do their jobs, which is fine.  The union's biggest downside, from what I've seen, is that it excessively protects bad workers, especially when it comes to people skipping work or breaking rules at work.  Firing the bad 10% is way harder than it should be.  It's important to protect people from getting fired arbitrarily, but when it becomes difficult to get rid of someone even if you have documented cause, that's getting a little too far.

TL;DR the union is a net positive around here.  If they'd make it easier to fire the very worst people, I think that would cure most of the problems (although packing a few thousand people into a loud, fast-paced environment for 10 hours per shift is ALWAYS going to result in some friction).  The union is far from perfect but even in 2017, employers will absolutely still abuse workers if they can get away with it.
 
2017-09-02 01:30:14 AM  
Yes in a union. They do a lot for me.
 
2017-09-02 01:35:33 AM  
I literally can't imagine what my job would be like without a union. I certainly wouldn't be getting paid as much. A couple of years ago, management decided to cut my pay. No reason; just for the hell of it. The union was having none of it.

Do employers at non-union shops do that? Just cut people's paychecks? Or try to eliminate dental insurance, or change your health insurance without telling you? I mean, what agreement is in place between the employee and the employer that keeps them from doing that stuff? Does the employee just HOPE it doesn't happen? Our company tried to manage grievances by eliminating the grievance procedure. (That shiat didn't fly either.)

I've worked non-union labor before; I flipped burgers in college, just like everyone else, and it was an exercise in employee abuse. They were forever trying to get me to work off the clock or without a break. They even edited my paycheck once. Nothing I could do about it. The owner thought you were lazy if you had ambitions outside of making him rich. And that wasn't my only at-will situation, either. All of them enjoyed varying degrees of getting screwed by management.

The weird thing is, the union doesn't really have all that much power. It's a declining industry; every new contract negotiation is an exercise in concessions. About all they can do at this point is keep the company from making a jackass out of itself. The first thing the last owner tried to do was fire everyone and re-hire them the next day at significantly less pay. That went over like a brick, and he was reluctantly forced to restore everyone's seniority. The weird thing is, after a stunt like that, he can't figure out why he isn't universally beloved by the rank and file. He's the Job Creator, isn't he?

Of course, my mother thinks I've joined the Communist Party. I should subscribe to The International Worker just to make her head explode.
 
2017-09-02 01:38:49 AM  

Kevin72: Florida where a substitute teacher with a bachelor's degree makes a dollar or two over minimum age, and with a master's degree 2 or 3 dollars over minimum.


I have met Florida teachers.  By accident.  I do not recommend it.

/yelp -1
 
2017-09-02 01:39:46 AM  

Weaver95: yes, actually I am in a union and yes they do quite a lot for me.


You lucky bastard.
 
2017-09-02 01:47:47 AM  
I have a great union.

It's my bar association.

Any group that has a required licensing regime enforced by law is, in a real sense, a union.

/Oh yeah.  Doctorates, black belts, 3 weeks of vacation too.

//Yada yada.  I drove a bargain for myself, sure.

///people brag about negotiating a week extra out of the office? That is...well...now I feel bad for fecking.
 
2017-09-02 01:52:53 AM  

Marcus Aurelius: Weaver95: yes, actually I am in a union and yes they do quite a lot for me.

You lucky bastard.


its weird working in a union mainframe shop, and it does have its quirks....but yeah, being a state worker is kinda cool.  I'm treated WAY better here than I ever was on the outside.
 
2017-09-02 02:08:51 AM  

HMS_Blinkin: Chinesenookiefactory: I get that unions wete once necessary, but no more.

Gonna have to go ahead and disagree with you there.  Non-union auto parts suppliers in the South have have an utterly atrocious safety record.

https://www.osha.gov/news/newsreleases/region4/12142016
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2017-03-23/inside-alabama-s-au​to-jobs-boom-cheap-wages-little-training-crushed-limbs
https://www.buzzfeed.com/coralewis/hyundai-under-fire-for-serious-safe​ty-violations-by-supplier?utm_term=.rfM3P8WVe5#.jmg1qV0GOz

I'm salary in a union auto assembly plant in the US, and I interact with union guys (UAW) every day as part of my job.  From my vantage point, it's a mixed bag.  At its best, the union does a great job with encouraging safety (and enforcing safety rules on the floor).  I get our company's global safety report every week, and most weeks there aren't even any injuries to report anywhere in the world.  The stuff you see in those southern plants is shocking to me.  That shiat just doesn't happen here.  The union also demands certain standards from suppliers, so we wouldn't allow dangerous workplaces like those into our supply chain---and I think that's great.

The union also obviously helps with worker wages.  Working on the line sucks.  I make quite a bit more than the union salary, but I wouldn't work down there even for my higher paycheck.  I also get to experience some benefits of collective bargaining; namely holidays and premium pay for working night/weekend shifts.  They make a lot considering the minimal education requirements, but most of the jobs on the floor legitimately suck and I don't begrudge them their wages one bit.

That's not to say it's all great.  I definitely see lazy and worthless people.  It's about 10/80/10.  10% are parasites, 10% are great and go the extra mile.  The other 80% just show up and do their jobs, which is fine.  The union's biggest downside, from what I've seen, is that it excessively protects bad workers, especially when it comes to people skipping work or breaking rules at work.  Firing the bad 10% is way harder than it should be.  It's important to protect people from getting fired arbitrarily, but when it becomes difficult to get rid of someone even if you have documented cause, that's getting a little too far.

TL;DR the union is a net positive around here.  If they'd make it easier to fire the very worst people, I think that would cure most of the problems (although packing a few thousand people into a loud, fast-paced environment for 10 hours per shift is ALWAYS going to result in some friction).  The union is far from perfect but even in 2017, employers will absolutely still abuse workers if they can get away with it.


Very informative and, I think, accurate. Perhaps the lazy, bad eggs stuck out more to me than the regulars that simply did their jobs day to day.  The most frustrating thing you mentioned is the fact that the lazy, entitled people are so difficult to fire.
 
2017-09-02 02:10:05 AM  
Yes.
Yes.
 
2017-09-02 02:14:33 AM  

Chinesenookiefactory: The most frustrating thing you mentioned is the fact that the lazy, entitled people are so difficult to fire.


yup.  we've got one or two of those here in my union shop.  I'm glad he's not on my shift, or we'd have some issues.  dude bathes maybe once a month, if that.  the stench gets stomach churning.
 
2017-09-02 02:22:59 AM  
Chinesenookiefactory:
Very informative and, I think, accurate. Perhaps the lazy, bad eggs stuck out more to me than the regulars that simply did their jobs day to day. The most frustrating thing you mentioned is the fact that the lazy, entitled people are so difficult to fire.

Definitely.  I run into one asshole and it pisses me off for days.  The really egregious ones give me stories that are still funny/infuriating months later.  I have to remind myself that I ran into one asshole in a plant with ~2-3k workers on each shift.  The "80%" just kind of fade into the background, and you don't remember them because you do so much and see so many people.

It's like going to a sports game.  I've gone to lots of college football games, and the only specific people I remember are either the worst, drunkest asshole fans, or the times I met fans of the opposing team who turned out to be super cool people.  The tens of thousands of other faces I wandered by are totally out of my memory.
 
2017-09-02 02:28:46 AM  
1) Yes

2) Yes

My union is awesome, thank you very much.

/California Faculty Association
 
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