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(Washington Post)   In a move that will surprise absolutely no one, as most people already expect it and the ones that didn't will just do some mental gymnastics to rationalize it away, Donald Trump is defying his chief of staff and using his personal phone for calls   ( washingtonpost.com) divider line
    More: Facepalm, President of the United States, White House, President Donald Trump, Gen. John Kelly, Washington, D.C., White House Chief, Stephen K. Bannon, Washington Post piece  
•       •       •

1876 clicks; posted to Politics » on 01 Sep 2017 at 5:15 AM (7 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2017-09-01 01:47:06 AM  
img.fark.net
 
2017-09-01 01:58:34 AM  
One would assume that the FSB commanded him to do so as its much easier to pick up those signals than hacking into a government phone.
 
2017-09-01 02:05:33 AM  
Regarding Kelly's structure, Roger Stone, one of Trump's longest confidants and a one-time advisor, told the paper that Kelly is "trying to treat the president like a mushroom" by "feeding him sh*t" and keeping "him in the dark."

That is probably the best we can hope for
 
2017-09-01 02:06:09 AM  
The Secret Service and the counter intelligence people must be going bonkers.
 
2017-09-01 02:07:32 AM  
img.fark.net

img.fark.net

img.fark.net

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img.fark.net

img.fark.net
 
2017-09-01 03:10:39 AM  
He hit the road to sell his tax-cut plan.

What tax plan? I haven't heard anything since that one-page of bullet points came out.
 
2017-09-01 03:12:07 AM  
He boasts about his presidency in superlatives, but confidants privately fret about his suddenly dark moods.

Looks like time for another photo op with really big vehicles! Might I suggest

img.fark.net
 
2017-09-01 03:51:43 AM  
um....is it just me, or does it feel like trump's mental state is disintegrating?
 
2017-09-01 04:08:23 AM  

fusillade762: He hit the road to sell his tax-cut plan.

What tax plan? I haven't heard anything since that one-page of bullet points came out.


"Tax Cuts!"

That's the 'plan'. In it's entirety.
 
2017-09-01 04:23:55 AM  

Weaver95: um....is it just me, or does it feel like trump's mental state is disintegrating?


I just saw him getting off Marine One. He awkwardly returned a salute, and then started clapping. I know there are always tourists and others off a ways clapping, but it looks like a desperate self-clapping.
 
2017-09-01 04:29:30 AM  

August11: Weaver95: um....is it just me, or does it feel like trump's mental state is disintegrating?

I just saw him getting off Marine One. He awkwardly returned a salute, and then started clapping. I know there are always tourists and others off a ways clapping, but it looks like a desperate self-clapping.


this is the second article i've seen that implies trump's suffering from a pretty severe case of clinical depression.  Or at least in the ballpark of a major depressive episode.  I know that when the girlfriend gets like that, just showing up for work takes everything she's got...and she's not running the gotdamn country.  if trump is suffering from a documented legitimate psychological problem then get him the hell outta there and make sure he gets some gotdamn help.

I can't believe there's a credible chances that the president of the united states of america is clinically and potentially suicidally depressed....and has his finger on the nuclear launch button.
 
2017-09-01 04:51:17 AM  

fusillade762: He hit the road to sell his tax-cut plan.

What tax plan? I haven't heard anything since that one-page of bullet points came out.


His plan to have someone, possibly someone or a group of someones in Congress, to come up with a tax plan*. Right now he's just playing the hype man, going around and making sure everyone knows something great is coming. He need to bother with details, if he says it's going to be a beautiful plan, that he has the best people working on it and, believe me, it's going to be great. And this plan, this wonderful plan they're going to come up with, is the plan that will Make America Great Again. And, really, who doesn't want America to be great?

*See also: Trump's claim during the campaign that he had a plan to defeat ISIS in 30-days. Apparently, his plan was to give the SecDef 30 days to come up with a plan to defeat ISIS.
 
2017-09-01 05:18:06 AM  
Trump, like water, will always find the lowest point. And like water, he cannot be contained forever.
 
2017-09-01 05:23:26 AM  

Weaver95: August11: Weaver95: um....is it just me, or does it feel like trump's mental state is disintegrating?

I just saw him getting off Marine One. He awkwardly returned a salute, and then started clapping. I know there are always tourists and others off a ways clapping, but it looks like a desperate self-clapping.

this is the second article i've seen that implies trump's suffering from a pretty severe case of clinical depression.  Or at least in the ballpark of a major depressive episode.  I know that when the girlfriend gets like that, just showing up for work takes everything she's got...and she's not running the gotdamn country.  if trump is suffering from a documented legitimate psychological problem then get him the hell outta there and make sure he gets some gotdamn help.

I can't believe there's a credible chances that the president of the united states of america is clinically and potentially suicidally depressed....and has his finger on the nuclear launch button.


I'd like to be reassured that he doesnt really. As in... he cannot launch a nuke on his own. Surely Mattis or whoever would have to be involved?
 
2017-09-01 05:27:18 AM  

Lady J: I'd like to be reassured that he doesnt really. As in... he cannot launch a nuke on his own. Surely Mattis or whoever would have to be involved?


i'm not sure but...I think the president has that authority without much, if any, oversight.  there's little anyone could do should trump decide today's the day he ends the world.
 
2017-09-01 05:29:33 AM  

Weaver95: Lady J: I'd like to be reassured that he doesnt really. As in... he cannot launch a nuke on his own. Surely Mattis or whoever would have to be involved?

i'm not sure but...I think the president has that authority without much, if any, oversight.  there's little anyone could do should trump decide today's the day he ends the world.


But on the fillums, it takes two people turning keys at the same time.

Plus wouldnt it require an expert to program where the nuke is headed? It's not like Trump could do something like that. What's the nuke equivalent of shoting yourself in the thigh while getting your gun out of your holster?
 
2017-09-01 05:30:19 AM  
"General Kelly is trying to treat the president like a mushroom. Keeping him in the dark and feeding him s--- is not going to work.

Once again this is the opposite of reality, Kelly is trying to prevent him from being fed shiat. Previously anyone could just swing by and give him a dose of Alex-Jones nuttery, which then became policy.
 
2017-09-01 05:32:58 AM  

Lady J: But on the fillums, it takes two people turning keys at the same time.


that's the silo commanders, not the Commander in Chief.  the system is designed and predicated on rapid response.  which, by inference, indicates a limited amount of oversight.  if the ruskies triggered a surprise launch, the president won't have time to confer with anyone on a retaliatory strike so the system assumes the President is a sane, stable human being who can and will use their best judgement in that situation.

we've never considered what might happen if the country was being run by a narcissistic borderline personality disorder asshat with severe clinical depression and suicidal tendencies.
 
2017-09-01 05:32:58 AM  

fusillade762: He boasts about his presidency in superlatives, but confidants privately fret about his suddenly dark moods.

Looks like time for another photo op with really big vehicles! Might I suggest

[img.fark.net image 850x412]


Imagine how small his hands would like next to that thing..
 
2017-09-01 05:33:56 AM  

Weaver95: um....is it just me, or does it feel like trump's mental state is disintegrating?


You man more than usual, right?
 
2017-09-01 05:36:00 AM  

Ambivalence: Trump, like water, will always find the lowest point. And like water, he cannot be contained forever.


But i have high hopes that he will just evaporate into nothing.
 
2017-09-01 05:37:09 AM  
Trump still hasn't figured out that he's not the boss of the country, he's an employee with ~325million bosses.
 
2017-09-01 05:37:19 AM  

Smoking GNU: Weaver95: um....is it just me, or does it feel like trump's mental state is disintegrating?

You man more than usual, right?


well, yes.  granted, I have a SEVERE dislike for Trump so it might just be my bias talking here but....it seems as if trump is falling apart faster and faster.  he actually told a group of disaster survivors he was 'happy for the turnout'.

that's not normal behavior.
 
2017-09-01 05:38:09 AM  

weapon13: Ambivalence: Trump, like water, will always find the lowest point. And like water, he cannot be contained forever.

But i have high hopes that he will just evaporate into nothing.


if we light a fire under him, he might just boil off even faster than if left alone to evaporate at room temp.
 
2017-09-01 05:44:01 AM  

Weaver95: Lady J: But on the fillums, it takes two people turning keys at the same time.

that's the silo commanders, not the Commander in Chief.  the system is designed and predicated on rapid response.  which, by inference, indicates a limited amount of oversight.  if the ruskies triggered a surprise launch, the president won't have time to confer with anyone on a retaliatory strike so the system assumes the President is a sane, stable human being who can and will use their best judgement in that situation.

we've never considered what might happen if the country was being run by a narcissistic borderline personality disorder asshat with severe clinical depression and suicidal tendencies.


IIRC, the last time someone asked that question he was driven out of the armed forces and forced to resign.
 
2017-09-01 05:52:10 AM  

fusillade762: He hit the road to sell his tax-cut plan.

What tax plan? I haven't heard anything since that one-page of bullet points came out.


Oh the plan where he wants to help poor and middle class families by lowering the corporate tax to 15%. Then it will just trickle down, where have I heard that before?
 
2017-09-01 05:59:43 AM  
I'm really confused about what to think about Kelly.  On the one hand, it's great there is finally an adult in charge in the West Wing, and some small bit of sense going into how things are run there.  In that sense, he is being honorable in protecting his country.  But on the other hand, he is in effect covering up the Trump dysfunction, and if Kelly holds it to a minimum, that may be something the country can limp along with for four years.  But if Kelly weren't there, and we all could fully see how absolutely nutso Trump is, maybe he'd be forced out of office sooner, which would be a good thing.
 
2017-09-01 06:08:34 AM  

Unobtanium: The Secret Service and the counter intelligence people must be going bonkers.


Obama already set the precedent with his Blackberry. Back then it was a folksy, cute anecdote about a modern president refusing to give up his gadgets: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/23/us/politics/23berry.html

Not quite so folksy and cute when the president is unhinged, unfortunately.
 
2017-09-01 06:11:18 AM  

Mad Scientist: I'm really confused about what to think about Kelly.  On the one hand, it's great there is finally an adult in charge in the West Wing, and some small bit of sense going into how things are run there.  In that sense, he is being honorable in protecting his country.  But on the other hand, he is in effect covering up the Trump dysfunction, and if Kelly holds it to a minimum, that may be something the country can limp along with for four years.  But if Kelly weren't there, and we all could fully see how absolutely nutso Trump is, maybe he'd be forced out of office sooner, which would be a good thing.


I would say that Trump isn't the final authority that Kelly is reporting to.
 
2017-09-01 06:31:41 AM  

Lady J: But on the fillums, it takes two people turning keys at the same time.


*swoons*
 
2017-09-01 06:31:47 AM  
Private email server, private phone... tomato, tomah-to
 
2017-09-01 06:32:45 AM  
How long before Kim Jong Un prank calls Trump pretending to be China and taunts him into nuking Beijing?

Or some douchebag radio station jock, for that matter.
 
2017-09-01 06:33:31 AM  

JustToLetYouKnowFriend: [img.fark.net image 406x279]

[img.fark.net image 850x404]

[img.fark.net image 624x330]

[img.fark.net image 469x418]

[img.fark.net image 850x477]

[img.fark.net image 800x450]


OK, saying that enough times came out as "Buttery Males".
/hmmmmmm....
 
2017-09-01 06:34:19 AM  

cman: One would assume that the FSB commanded him to do so as its much easier to pick up those signals than hacking into a government phone.


I haven't been here as much lately... did you turn from the dark side?

If so, good on you.

Otherwise, I'm not sure how to interpret your post.
 
2017-09-01 06:34:31 AM  

Weaver95: weapon13: Ambivalence: Trump, like water, will always find the lowest point. And like water, he cannot be contained forever.

But i have high hopes that he will just evaporate into nothing.

if we light a fire under him, he might just boil off even faster than if left alone to evaporate at room temp.


Are you advocating boiling a sitting president?!  Expect a visit from the SS.

/guess which one!
 
2017-09-01 06:37:21 AM  

Weaver95: August11: Weaver95: um....is it just me, or does it feel like trump's mental state is disintegrating?

I just saw him getting off Marine One. He awkwardly returned a salute, and then started clapping. I know there are always tourists and others off a ways clapping, but it looks like a desperate self-clapping.

this is the second article i've seen that implies trump's suffering from a pretty severe case of clinical depression.  Or at least in the ballpark of a major depressive episode.  I know that when the girlfriend gets like that, just showing up for work takes everything she's got...and she's not running the gotdamn country.  if trump is suffering from a documented legitimate psychological problem then get him the hell outta there and make sure he gets some gotdamn help.

I can't believe there's a credible chances that the president of the united states of america is clinically and potentially suicidally depressed....and has his finger on the nuclear launch button.


During GWB, did we ever seriously consider that one day he might just up and murder-suicide the entire world on a whim? Was that a major concern, like how when 45 didn't finish one of his twitter sentences, the pentagon was bracing for the worst?
 
2017-09-01 06:53:10 AM  
Kelly was a farking idiot to take that job.

So was everyone else in this administration.
 
2017-09-01 06:58:23 AM  

Lady J: Weaver95: Lady J: I'd like to be reassured that he doesnt really. As in... he cannot launch a nuke on his own. Surely Mattis or whoever would have to be involved?

i'm not sure but...I think the president has that authority without much, if any, oversight.  there's little anyone could do should trump decide today's the day he ends the world.

But on the fillums, it takes two people turning keys at the same time.

Plus wouldnt it require an expert to program where the nuke is headed? It's not like Trump could do something like that. What's the nuke equivalent of shoting yourself in the thigh while getting your gun out of your holster?


It does take multiple people to initiate a use of nuclear weapons. The president has sole discretion to use our nuclear arsenal as deemed necessary.

In practical terms, you are aware of the 'nuclear football'? The military attache connected to it has the knowledge on how it's used. As part of the included binder, there's a slew of options available to the president to select the action--an obvious one is "send everything at Russia and it's allies". These options are worked up by the DoD planners. More limited attacks are likely available as well, and include all the potential enemies. I'm not 100% certain on the mechanics due to it's classified nature, but the attache likely helps the president input the attack option. The president would have a password or pin only known to him to properly encrypt / authenticate the order.

Within the White House, there's no need for the football, but there's still a military officer who is responsible for having the equipment and binder ready for the president as requested. Someone has to explain the options to the president, even if he's seen these options before.

As dumb as this may sound, that military attache is a great way to prevent a first strike by an unstable president. Suicidal people don't usually seek out a sane person to include in their plan. And, this would be more akin to murder-suicide, so even less likely to call up a sane person into the act. The officer is supposed to do as ordered without disobeying, but officers can ask clarifying questions as to what the president intends with this attack. Military officers aren't total drones, and they often have families, too. While we may hope this officer would outright prevent the president from executing an unprovoked first strike, in reality the fact that the president needs to have a second person involved greatly reduces the likelihood of blatantly improper use of these weapons.
 
2017-09-01 06:59:03 AM  

ginandbacon: Kelly was a farking idiot to take that job.

So was everyone else in this administration.


And never forget, every single person in the Trump administration was willing to bend a knee and swear personal fealty to him (or they didn't get the job).
 
2017-09-01 07:01:12 AM  
Trump doesn't like Kelly getting in his way??

img.fark.net
 
2017-09-01 07:01:31 AM  
As most of our parents have told us at some point in life - "If you're going to act like a baby, I'm going to treat you like a baby." That's really the only option Kelly has.
 
2017-09-01 07:04:22 AM  

born_yesterday: ginandbacon: Kelly was a farking idiot to take that job.

So was everyone else in this administration.

And never forget, every single person in the Trump administration was willing to bend a knee and swear personal fealty to him (or they didn't get the job).


You actually think Mattis or McMasters did that?  Hell, or Kelly?

They weren't automatically idiots for taking the job.  I'm sure some look at it as a better it's them than the next person in line type of thing.  You know, big picture thinking.  The kind of thinking we need in those positions.
 
2017-09-01 07:04:42 AM  

roostercube: Lady J: Weaver95: Lady J: I'd like to be reassured that he doesnt really. As in... he cannot launch a nuke on his own. Surely Mattis or whoever would have to be involved?

i'm not sure but...I think the president has that authority without much, if any, oversight.  there's little anyone could do should trump decide today's the day he ends the world.

But on the fillums, it takes two people turning keys at the same time.

Plus wouldnt it require an expert to program where the nuke is headed? It's not like Trump could do something like that. What's the nuke equivalent of shoting yourself in the thigh while getting your gun out of your holster?

It does take multiple people to initiate a use of nuclear weapons. The president has sole discretion to use our nuclear arsenal as deemed necessary.

In practical terms, you are aware of the 'nuclear football'? The military attache connected to it has the knowledge on how it's used. As part of the included binder, there's a slew of options available to the president to select the action--an obvious one is "send everything at Russia and it's allies". These options are worked up by the DoD planners. More limited attacks are likely available as well, and include all the potential enemies. I'm not 100% certain on the mechanics due to it's classified nature, but the attache likely helps the president input the attack option. The president would have a password or pin only known to him to properly encrypt / authenticate the order.

Within the White House, there's no need for the football, but there's still a military officer who is responsible for having the equipment and binder ready for the president as requested. Someone has to explain the options to the president, even if he's seen these options before.

As dumb as this may sound, that military attache is a great way to prevent a first strike by an unstable president. Suicidal people don't usually seek out a sane person to include in their plan. And, this would be more akin to murder-suicide, so even less likely to call up a sane person into the act. The officer is supposed to do as ordered without disobeying, but officers can ask clarifying questions as to what the president intends with this attack. Military officers aren't total drones, and they often have families, too. While we may hope this officer would outright prevent the president from executing an unprovoked first strike, in reality the fact that the president needs to have a second person involved greatly reduces the likelihood of blatantly improper use of these weapons.


Also, normally there are two situations in which the nuclear capability would be used: as a first strike or as a retaliatory one. In both cases, the military high command would be intimately involved, because either they helped plan and recommend the strike or because they were the ones who brought the President the information and recommended the strike.

The new scenario is the unprovoked unplanned launch. If the President randomly orders the football brought to him one night, do we really think that no one else would find out about it until it's too late?
 
2017-09-01 07:08:22 AM  

born_yesterday: ginandbacon: Kelly was a farking idiot to take that job.

So was everyone else in this administration.

And never forget, every single person in the Trump administration was willing to bend a knee and swear personal fealty to him (or they didn't get the job).


Right? No wonder he can't find nominees for most of the jobs in the administration. I can't help but wonder what Elaine Chao is getting out of this. The fact that she hasn't resigned yet is just inexplicable to me.
 
2017-09-01 07:09:03 AM  

born_yesterday: ginandbacon: Kelly was a farking idiot to take that job.

So was everyone else in this administration.

And never forget, every single person in the Trump administration was willing to bend a knee and swear personal fealty to him (or they didn't get the job).


Meh. That doesn't really mean anything. The kind of people who would work in the administration are the kind of people who would take whatever "oath" is required with the full intention of violating it if that's what was best for them personally.
 
2017-09-01 07:09:59 AM  

Weaver95: um....is it just me, or does it feel like trump's mental state is disintegrating?


He's headed for a meltdown, no question there. But a breakdown? I don't think so. Rather, I think that this is another stage in the babby/daddy relationship that is emerging between Trump and Kelly: Two Scoops has hit the metaphorical equivalent of the terrible twos, and he's expressing his emotions through tantrums and defiance. With proper parenting it should be possible to bring him out of it.

Really, we need to be shipping in psychologists, stat. Not to evaluate Trump's fitness to lead -though if they get some results in that direction, hey, bonus- but to study the developing parent/toddler dynamic when the toddler can actually (more or less) articulate. This is a valuable research opportunity that should not be wasted.
 
2017-09-01 07:15:59 AM  
qorkfiend:
Also, normally there are two situations in which the nuclear capability would be used: as a first strike or as a retaliatory one. In both cases, the military high command would be intimately involved, because either they helped plan and recommend the strike or because they were the ones who brought the President the information and recommended the strike.

The new scenario is the unprovoked unplanned launch. If the President randomly orders the football brought to him one night, do we really think that no one else would find out about it until it's too late?


I suspect even if it would be brought to another president, they wouldnt bring it to Trump. I'm quite sure military high command have had some private conversations around this type of scenario already.
 
2017-09-01 07:24:56 AM  

Shaggy_C: Unobtanium: The Secret Service and the counter intelligence people must be going bonkers.

Obama already set the precedent with his Blackberry. Back then it was a folksy, cute anecdote about a modern president refusing to give up his gadgets: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/23/us/politics/23berry.html

Not quite so folksy and cute when the president is unhinged, unfortunately.


Not exactly the same:

"While lawyers and the Secret Service balked at Mr. Obama's initial requests to allow him to keep his BlackBerry, they acquiesced as long as the president - and those corresponding with him - agreed to strict rules. And he had to agree to use a specially made device, which must be approved by national security officials.

"It's a pretty small group of people," Mr. Gibbs said, explaining who would be allowed to e-mail the president.
All of Mr. Obama's e-mail messages remain subject to the Presidential Records Act, which could ultimately put his words into the public domain, as well as under the threat of subpoenas. That was a caveat, aides said, that did not dissuade the president."
 
2017-09-01 07:27:17 AM  

Weaver95: August11: Weaver95: um....is it just me, or does it feel like trump's mental state is disintegrating?

I just saw him getting off Marine One. He awkwardly returned a salute, and then started clapping. I know there are always tourists and others off a ways clapping, but it looks like a desperate self-clapping.

this is the second article i've seen that implies trump's suffering from a pretty severe case of clinical depression.  Or at least in the ballpark of a major depressive episode.  I know that when the girlfriend gets like that, just showing up for work takes everything she's got...and she's not running the gotdamn country.  if trump is suffering from a documented legitimate psychological problem then get him the hell outta there and make sure he gets some gotdamn help.

I can't believe there's a credible chances that the president of the united states of america is clinically and potentially suicidally depressed....and has his finger on the nuclear launch button.


Let's get him out of there and get him no help.
 
2017-09-01 07:32:52 AM  

Wyalt Derp: Trump still hasn't figured out that he's not the boss of the country, he's an employee with ~325million bosses.


You still haven't figured out he isn't.

When you can find anyone with the power to do so telling him no about anything I'll consider your theory.
 
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