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(Salt Lake Tribune)   A nurse following a policy the hospital lawyers and police department agreed to regarding blood draws? You better bet that's an arrest. Hero tag is for the nurse   ( sltrib.com) divider line
    More: Hero, blood sample, Criminal Investigation Department, Crime, Consent, Patient, Lt. James Tracy, Arrest warrant, Criminal law  
•       •       •

14710 clicks; posted to Main » on 01 Sep 2017 at 12:52 AM (15 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2017-08-31 10:54:08 PM  
Wow, the video. That was an intentional suicide.
 
2017-08-31 11:02:44 PM  
She was non-compliant. Apparently, you're not allowed to disagree with a cop, even when he's clearly breaking the farking law, and all the justification he needed to assault and detain her was "she's not letting me do what I want to do."

Fark that shiat.
 
2017-08-31 11:53:29 PM  

FormlessOne: She was non-compliant. Apparently, you're not allowed to disagree with a cop, even when he's clearly breaking the farking law, and all the justification he needed to assault and detain her was "she's not letting me do what I want to do."

Fark that shiat.


I'm sure a certain farker will be here to tell us how this one cop is just an individual and they're not all dickless little shiats hiding behind a badge because if they didn't wear blue they'd be tossed in jail for 25 to life pretty damn quick for their behavoir.

And while that's technically correct, it's also almost entirely useless because there ARE dickless little shiats hiding behind the badge because if they didn't wear blue they'd be tossed in jail for 25 to life pretty damn quick for their behavoir. And John Q Public has to deal with those shiats day in, day out.

So it doesn't matter how many good cops there are if the bad ones don't get taken out of circulation. The bad apples have already spoiled the barrel. We need new laws and probably a lot of new LEOs. Certainly new LEOders.
 
2017-09-01 12:03:29 AM  
So the cops are wrong on the law and complete assholes for no reason? 

img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2017-09-01 12:20:35 AM  
img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2017-09-01 12:26:26 AM  
She is nice for not suing the police for false arrest. That's technically kidnapping and assault isn't it?
 
2017-09-01 12:30:20 AM  
I like reading that other cops stood by and did nothing.  fark every cop there that saw abuse of power and let I think occur.  Sue em all.
 
2017-09-01 12:30:31 AM  

sithon: She is nice for not suing the police for false arrest. That's technically kidnapping and assault isn't it?


 Nice not to be the next target of a "Making a murderer" style frame operation?

Yeah, it's pretty nice of her.
 
2017-09-01 01:00:05 AM  
FTA

"Payne - who says he wanted the blood sample to protect the patient, not punish him"

/sure
 
2017-09-01 01:00:38 AM  
And people wonder why some people hate cops...
 
2017-09-01 01:02:45 AM  
Looks like someone just bought himself a paid leave of absence.
 
2017-09-01 01:03:18 AM  

FormlessOne: She was non-compliant. Apparently, you're not allowed to disagree with a cop, even when he's clearly breaking the farking law, and all the justification he needed to assault and detain her was "she's not letting me do what I want to do."

Fark that shiat.


And he's still on duty even... I mean, he falsely arrested her, threatened to use other positions to do financial harm to the hospital, and plainly broke the law, right on video... and that's not enough to get him kicked off the police force.
 
2017-09-01 01:07:18 AM  
Not just a violation of hospital policy, but a violation of the 4th Amendment.  And not even the hospital cops did anything.  I especially like the payback officer Asswipe was planning in the parking lot.  Just all around quality fascists they got there.

For the patient's safety, though.  Make that make sense.  The patient is a reserve police officer so they needed to know if he was on drugs so they could plan how to bury that fact if he was.
 
2017-09-01 01:08:13 AM  

JudgeSmails: FTA

"Payne - who says he wanted the blood sample to protect the patient, not punish him"

/sure


Actually, that is probably true. According to the article the patient was another cop.

Not that the officers intention in asking for the sample is the least bit relevant to the question of whether or not he had the legal right to obtain the sample.
 
2017-09-01 01:09:34 AM  
Why do police always act like getting a warrant is this impossible task? Cities usually have judges on call, and they can fax it over to the hospital.

You want a warrant little lady? But that's minutes of work!
 
2017-09-01 01:10:22 AM  

CantConfirmOrDeny: Wow, the video. That was an intentional suicide.


Holy crap. Your comment lrompted me to watch it. Why would you do that to people? That shiat was horrible!
 
2017-09-01 01:10:31 AM  
I'm sure the usual suspects will be here in short order to explain why this is totally legal and the nurse should have been beaten into a coma.   The skill they demonstrate to be able to touch type even with their tongues 4 inches inside the cops ass is breathtaking.
 
2017-09-01 01:11:08 AM  
Ok, so a couple of things. I didn't watch the video because I would like to go to sleep soon and that shiat would probably piss me off enough to stay up way later than I want.

The article said that he radioed back to his CO and was advised to use the implied consent rule and if she still didn't allow to arrest her. Can this statement be corroborated by the video? If so, the guy is doing what he's told. He might be doing it with enthusiasm but he's still doing what he's told. If not, then why aren't they looking into his claims that he did. Are there others who can corroborate his report?

Now the video evidence of him talking about what he was going to do as an ambulance driver should most definitely get him kicked out of that job.

Also, what happened to the CO that gave him the order and told him to use something that hasn't been law in 10 years? This sounds like the person hasn't known for 10 years that the law was changed. How does that happen? I'm not going to imply they have been knowingly using something that was overturned 10 years ago, but it does beg the question of why they are using it.

And the other officers? Did they not know the law was overturned as well?

Look I get it that cops have a shiat job and it can be rough, but there's GOT to be accountability or this is going to get worse and worse as time goes on.
 
2017-09-01 01:12:45 AM  
img.fark.netView Full Size


"Like when you guys put somebody in the car and you're protecting their head, you know, the way you put their hand over? Like, don't hit their head and they've just killed somebody - don't hit their head," Trump said. "I said, 'You can take the hand away, okay? When you see these thugs being thrown into the back of a paddy wagon - you just see them thrown in, rough - I said, please don't be too nice"
 
2017-09-01 01:13:51 AM  
Seriously, he put his hands on her? Are you farking kidding me?  I say jail time for the farking pig or we burn this biatch to the ground cuz obviously nothing matters anymore. I would expect more from a goddamned five year old, not getting his way. Literally.
 
2017-09-01 01:16:10 AM  

Extra Virgin Geek Olive Oil: Ok, so a couple of things. I didn't watch the video because I would like to go to sleep soon and that shiat would probably piss me off enough to stay up way later than I want.

The article said that he radioed back to his CO and was advised to use the implied consent rule and if she still didn't allow to arrest her. Can this statement be corroborated by the video? If so, the guy is doing what he's told. He might be doing it with enthusiasm but he's still doing what he's told. If not, then why aren't they looking into his claims that he did. Are there others who can corroborate his report?

Now the video evidence of him talking about what he was going to do as an ambulance driver should most definitely get him kicked out of that job.

Also, what happened to the CO that gave him the order and told him to use something that hasn't been law in 10 years? This sounds like the person hasn't known for 10 years that the law was changed. How does that happen? I'm not going to imply they have been knowingly using something that was overturned 10 years ago, but it does beg the question of why they are using it.

And the other officers? Did they not know the law was overturned as well?

Look I get it that cops have a shiat job and it can be rough, but there's GOT to be accountability or this is going to get worse and worse as time goes on.


I can't speak to most of your questions, but the first one is easy. Assuming that the superior did give him the order, it means nothing. "I was just following orders!" is not an admissable defense in a court of law.

However, a judge might take into consideration that a defendant was begrudgingly following orders when passing sentence, but that is clearly not the case here.
 
2017-09-01 01:17:32 AM  
Wait, we were always told that it's only a few bad apples in the bunch, this can't be right?
/S, just in case...
//Is it because we are more connected and we're able to see this fallacy that police people are untouchable unfold?
 
2017-09-01 01:19:43 AM  

sithon: She is nice for not suing the police for false arrest. That's technically kidnapping and assault isn't it?


She never said she wouldn't sue, just that there isn't a suit being filed right now. I'm sure once a few lawyers see the video she will have some money flowing her way.
 
2017-09-01 01:20:26 AM  
Being somewhat familiar with the relationships EMS / Ambulance services have with hospitals, I'm pretty sure his "off-duty job" of transporting patients will soon be gone.
And all that worry about the Fourth Amendment...why? I mean, we've got the Second; seems that's all people really give a shiat about now.
 
2017-09-01 01:22:19 AM  

Extra Virgin Geek Olive Oil: Ok, so a couple of things. I didn't watch the video because I would like to go to sleep soon and that shiat would probably piss me off enough to stay up way later than I want.

The article said that he radioed back to his CO and was advised to use the implied consent rule and if she still didn't allow to arrest her. Can this statement be corroborated by the video? If so, the guy is doing what he's told. He might be doing it with enthusiasm but he's still doing what he's told. If not, then why aren't they looking into his claims that he did. Are there others who can corroborate his report?

Now the video evidence of him talking about what he was going to do as an ambulance driver should most definitely get him kicked out of that job.

Also, what happened to the CO that gave him the order and told him to use something that hasn't been law in 10 years? This sounds like the person hasn't known for 10 years that the law was changed. How does that happen? I'm not going to imply they have been knowingly using something that was overturned 10 years ago, but it does beg the question of why they are using it.

And the other officers? Did they not know the law was overturned as well?

Look I get it that cops have a shiat job and it can be rough, but there's GOT to be accountability or this is going to get worse and worse as time goes on.


Right, from reading tfa, it seems like he took all the steps he could before it was either arrest her, or get in trouble.

I know im an awful awful bootlicking piece of shiat for saying that, sorry. Seems like it was a rough situation for both, but running away and screaming before they even touch you, its not super conducive to an easy non physical arrest.

you are a nurse in a public place, have a little decorum. 

Again i know it seems like im bootlicking, but I read the article and watched the video, and in context, it REALLY doesnt seem like this a crazy power hungry dick head abusing a valiant and stoic nurse.
 
2017-09-01 01:24:16 AM  
Ahh okay so he did touch her after he said she was under arrest, and that's when she started running and screaming.
 
2017-09-01 01:24:27 AM  

ommurgh: Seems like it was a rough situation for both, but running away and screaming before they even touch you, its not super conducive to an easy non physical arrest.

you are a nurse in a public place, have a little decorum.


img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2017-09-01 01:25:30 AM  
Don't blame the guards, they are required to defer to law enforcement. The supervisor he consulted should get busted out of management at an absolute minimum. The city should rush to get a settlement before she gets a serious lawyer.
 
2017-09-01 01:27:07 AM  
Jeez just know I'm gonna get torn apart for those posts. Not saying I support what he did, just that it wasn't out of malice and power abuse, more shiatty bureaucracy and everyone not saying calm.
 
2017-09-01 01:27:30 AM  
Nurse is also a former Olympian

http://www.sltrib.com/news/2017/08/31/utah-nurse-arrested-after-compl​y​ing-with-hospital-policy-that-bars-taking-blood-from-unconscious-victi​m/

"Wubbels, an Alpine skier who competed in the Winter Olympics in 1998 and 2002, when her last name was Shaffer, has worked as a nurse at University Hospital since 2009. "
 
2017-09-01 01:27:39 AM  

maram500: Extra Virgin Geek Olive Oil:

I can't speak to most of your questions, but the first one is easy. Assuming that the superior did give him the order, it means nothing. "I was just following orders!" is not an admissable defense in a court of law.

However, a judge might take into consideration that a defendant was begrudgingly following orders when passing sentence, but that is clearly not the case here.


I think, while that might be true in the case of say, the military where someone committed a crime, this would stand up for a cop. Here's why I think that: Very few times have police been convicted of a crime even when there's sufficient evidence that they committed one. The reasons behind are are plainly seen just watching it all play out. First you have prosecutors who are very lenient on police officers. Cross examinations are minimal, etc. And they have what I feel are justified reason for that, which is that if they come down hard on a cop, other cops will see that prosecutor as the enemy and that prosecutor's life will get very interrupted with getting pulled over, and intimidated. I don't know many people who wouldn't cave into the pressure once police start hauling your kid in on trumped up charges or following your wife around town and ticketing her if she even goes a mile over the speed limit.

Secondly, there's nearly always going to be a cop-sucker on the jury. Since convictions have to be unanimous, mistrials are pretty high in cop cases because it seems there's always a person on the jury looking to acquit the cop no matter what.

Then there's the Judge who can determine what evidence is allowed to be used in his court and he might look to bury the really damning stuff if the judge is also a cop-sucker.

So while in theory "just following orders" isn't a defensible position, in practice it's practically guaranteed.
 
2017-09-01 01:27:47 AM  

Vaginosilicosis: ommurgh: Seems like it was a rough situation for both, but running away and screaming before they even touch you, its not super conducive to an easy non physical arrest.

you are a nurse in a public place, have a little decorum.

[img.fark.net image 500x402]


I just said that because I know if Im getting arrested, falsely or not, running and screaming will not help a single damn thing. Agree or disagree?
 
2017-09-01 01:30:00 AM  
So how long does it take to get a judge's warrant on a daytime crash ?
 
2017-09-01 01:30:09 AM  
Well as the husband to a fricken amazing nurse who gets to hear allllll about hospital regulations and how they enforce them all I can say is...  That cop is farked when the hospital finishes with him and his department.

This story has spread like wild fire among the nursing/medical community.  Already getting news the hospital is going to back the employee.  Hospital lawyers are ruthless.  I almost feel bad for the detective....  almost.
 
2017-09-01 01:31:30 AM  

Vaginosilicosis: ommurgh: Seems like it was a rough situation for both, but running away and screaming before they even touch you, its not super conducive to an easy non physical arrest.

you are a nurse in a public place, have a little decorum.

[img.fark.net image 500x402]


I feel like what you heard me say was "never resist arrest, cops no best, theyll sort it out, trust the system."
 
2017-09-01 01:31:47 AM  
maram500:

I was just following orders is actually a good defense when those orders are legal and moral.

Assaulting a medical person in a hospital is neither.
 
2017-09-01 01:32:26 AM  

ommurgh: Extra Virgin Geek Olive Oil: Ok, so a couple of things. I didn't watch the video because I would like to go to sleep soon and that shiat would probably piss me off enough to stay up way later than I want.

The article said that he radioed back to his CO and was advised to use the implied consent rule and if she still didn't allow to arrest her. Can this statement be corroborated by the video? If so, the guy is doing what he's told. He might be doing it with enthusiasm but he's still doing what he's told. If not, then why aren't they looking into his claims that he did. Are there others who can corroborate his report?

Now the video evidence of him talking about what he was going to do as an ambulance driver should most definitely get him kicked out of that job.

Also, what happened to the CO that gave him the order and told him to use something that hasn't been law in 10 years? This sounds like the person hasn't known for 10 years that the law was changed. How does that happen? I'm not going to imply they have been knowingly using something that was overturned 10 years ago, but it does beg the question of why they are using it.

And the other officers? Did they not know the law was overturned as well?

Look I get it that cops have a shiat job and it can be rough, but there's GOT to be accountability or this is going to get worse and worse as time goes on.

Right, from reading tfa, it seems like he took all the steps he could before it was either arrest her, or get in trouble.

I know im an awful awful bootlicking piece of shiat for saying that, sorry. Seems like it was a rough situation for both, but running away and screaming before they even touch you, its not super conducive to an easy non physical arrest.

you are a nurse in a public place, have a little decorum. 

Again i know it seems like im bootlicking, but I read the article and watched the video, and in context, it REALLY doesnt seem like this a crazy power hungry dick head abusing a valiant and stoic nurse.


I'd be going to jail as well, then, versus compromising a hospital policy that would definitely have me out on my ass, anyway. What she did was the height of professionalism. She stood by the patient by enforcing a hospital policy that was most likely risk-assessed six ways to Sunday.

You want to play power games on my turf? Show me the warrant.
 
2017-09-01 01:33:10 AM  

Charlie Freak: ommurgh: Extra Virgin Geek Olive Oil: Ok, so a couple of things. I didn't watch the video because I would like to go to sleep soon and that shiat would probably piss me off enough to stay up way later than I want.

The article said that he radioed back to his CO and was advised to use the implied consent rule and if she still didn't allow to arrest her. Can this statement be corroborated by the video? If so, the guy is doing what he's told. He might be doing it with enthusiasm but he's still doing what he's told. If not, then why aren't they looking into his claims that he did. Are there others who can corroborate his report?

Now the video evidence of him talking about what he was going to do as an ambulance driver should most definitely get him kicked out of that job.

Also, what happened to the CO that gave him the order and told him to use something that hasn't been law in 10 years? This sounds like the person hasn't known for 10 years that the law was changed. How does that happen? I'm not going to imply they have been knowingly using something that was overturned 10 years ago, but it does beg the question of why they are using it.

And the other officers? Did they not know the law was overturned as well?

Look I get it that cops have a shiat job and it can be rough, but there's GOT to be accountability or this is going to get worse and worse as time goes on.

Right, from reading tfa, it seems like he took all the steps he could before it was either arrest her, or get in trouble.

I know im an awful awful bootlicking piece of shiat for saying that, sorry. Seems like it was a rough situation for both, but running away and screaming before they even touch you, its not super conducive to an easy non physical arrest.

you are a nurse in a public place, have a little decorum. 

Again i know it seems like im bootlicking, but I read the article and watched the video, and in context, it REALLY doesnt seem like this a crazy power hungry dick head abusing a valiant and s ...


I didnt say do it. I never said take the blood.

I simply said running and screaming is not going to help that situation, ever. Is that wrong?
 
2017-09-01 01:34:26 AM  

Ima4nic8or: JudgeSmails: FTA

"Payne - who says he wanted the blood sample to protect the patient, not punish him"

/sure

Actually, that is probably true. According to the article the patient was another cop.

Not that the officers intention in asking for the sample is the least bit relevant to the question of whether or not he had the legal right to obtain the sample.


It makes no sense. Saying "You can't prove that" is way more useful in the court system than being told "The reports show you tested his blood, where are the results?"
 
2017-09-01 01:36:53 AM  
I completetly understand people will usually start with a point like that, before 30 minutes later ending up with "well she WAS a women/black/etc, so, YOU KNOW.

But i literally was just saying it wasn't a good idea, im very sorry.
 
2017-09-01 01:38:56 AM  
How much longer?
 
2017-09-01 01:42:20 AM  

Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: Why do police always act like getting a warrant is this impossible task? Cities usually have judges on call, and they can fax it over to the hospital.

You want a warrant little lady? But that's minutes of work!


Usually? This isn't bumfark nowhere sharing a judge with 5 other bumfark nowhere towns, it's a city. The judges probably have a set rotation just like any on-call. Cop and the watch captain were just power tripping and should have a to give her a public apology if they want to keep their jobs. The city should issue a written apology and that arrest erased from every database.

That's being generous, personally I'd like the lot of them fired.
 
2017-09-01 01:43:46 AM  
Payne - who says he wanted the blood sample to protect the patient, not punish him

Bullshiat

The department also has held training for the officers in the program as a result of the incident, he said.

Also Bullshiat

Tracy said in his report that he spoke on the phone with Wubbels and told her he believed that they had implied consent to get the sample, but she cut him off

More Bullshiat

department will educate its officers.

Steaming heap of bullshiat

health care workers being bullied and harassed by police,

True
 
2017-09-01 01:44:00 AM  
I have the utmost respect for medical personell, and believe treating a patient and protecting their privacy should always come first and foremost, regardless. I feel in circumstances medical authority should trump police authority (eyy star trek and naval stuff).

I literally just meant it didnt help. Im sorry.
 
2017-09-01 01:47:12 AM  

wolfemane: Well as the husband to a fricken amazing nurse who gets to hear allllll about hospital regulations and how they enforce them all I can say is...  That cop is farked when the hospital finishes with him and his department.

This story has spread like wild fire among the nursing/medical community.  Already getting news the hospital is going to back the employee.  Hospital lawyers are ruthless.  I almost feel bad for the detective....  almost.


As a nurse, it would not surprise me if the hospital threw her to the wolves and fired her. I don't think that should happen but nurses have an unfortunate habit of being a tossed hot potato in a PR situation. Hopefully they will do the right thing here and back her. (This is never a guarantee, they represent the hospital not the nurse)
 
2017-09-01 01:48:19 AM  
It's pretty depressing to live in an age when nurses get arrested for explaining the laws to cops.
 
2017-09-01 01:50:07 AM  

sithon: She is nice for not suing the police for false arrest. That's technically kidnapping and assault isn't it?


She shouldn't be nice.

I say that knowing full well nobody responsible for this would pay for anything if she won a lawsuit (taxpayers would pay for it). But, sometimes, this needs to be on the record, legally speaking.
 
2017-09-01 01:50:46 AM  

ommurgh: I have the utmost respect for medical personell, and believe treating a patient and protecting their privacy should always come first and foremost, regardless. I feel in circumstances medical authority should trump police authority (eyy star trek and naval stuff).

I literally just meant it didnt help. Im sorry.


img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2017-09-01 01:51:09 AM  
One last apology, what I said is victim blaming and I apologize. When I posted it, I wasn't thinking of sides, or the political ramifications, or any of the deeper stuff. I had just watched the video and thought it was odd that a grown humans response to anything but immediate physical danger was to run and scream. That is not in my character so it struck me as odd, but i posted without thinking of the potential it had to seem like victim blaming. I'm sorry.
 
2017-09-01 01:53:03 AM  

puffy999: sithon: She is nice for not suing the police for false arrest. That's technically kidnapping and assault isn't it?

She shouldn't be nice.

I say that knowing full well nobody responsible for this would pay for anything if she won a lawsuit (taxpayers would pay for it). But, sometimes, this needs to be on the record, legally speaking.


I agree with you. My only point of contention is that, apparently, this IS on the record but they have still been using it for as along as 10 years since it was overturned. That in and of itself should warrant some major punishments, but to arrest someone using it is grounds for a fat payday.
 
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