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(Politico)   In fairness to Trump, his picks for posts like the Secretary of State, the Secretary of Defense, have proven to be intelligent and capable. Unfortunately for him, that means they are unwilling to pretend Trump has ANY idea what he is doing   ( politico.com) divider line
    More: Obvious, president, Trump, Federal government of the United States, Donald Trump, President of the United States, Trump tweet, Trump's weakness, Fox News  
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2593 clicks; posted to Politics » on 31 Aug 2017 at 8:26 PM (14 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2017-08-31 04:20:43 PM  
Still hasn't put forward any names for the rest of those positions though. Although, he'll have a difficult time filling them at this point. People weren't exactly leaping onto the Hindenburg on its fiery plunge to the ground.
 
2017-08-31 04:51:34 PM  
I think Tillerson correctly realizes that he's the highest level sane adult in the administration. When the indictments come, I hope he's the top man left standing.
 
2017-08-31 04:53:53 PM  
But her emails.

/at least we still have some people who believe in America.
 
2017-08-31 05:23:04 PM  
Kelly can't make this stop.  Trump says crazy shiat, and Tillerson has to go in behind him and reassure the rest of the world that he's not really serious.  That's just common sense.
 
2017-08-31 05:39:56 PM  
I'm sure Mattis, Kelly, and McMasters are fine men and know what they're doing and are doing it on behalf of their country.

But I find it a little concerning, given our long-standing philosophy of civilian control of both our government and military, that we are taking so much comfort that the generals are effectively in charge.

I do not distrust any of them.  But this is a bad scenario.  And yet we are accepting of it because of just how frightening and out of his league this president is.
 
2017-08-31 05:40:28 PM  
I have found Tillerson's insubordination insufficient.
 
2017-08-31 05:41:30 PM  
This isn't the work of the deep state

Aha! Just what a member of the Deep State would say!
 
2017-08-31 05:43:33 PM  

rightylefty: I think Tillerson correctly realizes that he's the highest level sane adult in the administration. When the indictments come, I hope he's the top man left standing.


T Rex would probably be happy to get fired and go back to his $25 million salary at this point since it looks like Exxon isn't going to get its half trillion dollar oil deal with Russia anytime soon.
 
2017-08-31 06:32:27 PM  

fusillade762: T Rex would probably be happy to get fired and go back to his $25 million salary


He hit mandatory retirement age.
 
2017-08-31 06:47:13 PM  

Diogenes: I'm sure Mattis, Kelly, and McMasters are fine men and know what they're doing and are doing it on behalf of their country.

But I find it a little concerning, given our long-standing philosophy of civilian control of both our government and military, that we are taking so much comfort that the generals are effectively in charge.

I do not distrust any of them.  But this is a bad scenario.  And yet we are accepting of it because of just how frightening and out of his league this president is.


And here I was, trying to feel better about the whole thing, hoping that Manofort will bring the whole ship down.....and then I  had to read your post.   (._. )
 
2017-08-31 07:01:15 PM  

rightylefty: I think Tillerson correctly realizes that he's the highest level sane adult in the administration. When the indictments come, I hope he's the top man left standing.


If he didn't know earlier, he certainly had it hammered home during the whole debacle with Qatar.
 
2017-08-31 08:29:03 PM  
Subby, you say that as if any other picks have worked out.  Those are literally the only two examples of halfway competent people.  And I still think Tillerson is an asshole and should go f*ck himself.
 
2017-08-31 08:31:26 PM  

Diogenes: I'm sure Mattis, Kelly, and McMasters are fine men and know what they're doing and are doing it on behalf of their country.

But I find it a little concerning, given our long-standing philosophy of civilian control of both our government and military, that we are taking so much comfort that the generals are effectively in charge.

I do not distrust any of them.  But this is a bad scenario.  And yet we are accepting of it because of just how frightening and out of his league this president is.


Didn't one of them say that they are just "holding down the fort" until we have good governance again? Maybe this is a GOOD use of the military power. To hold the line until we get this shiat figured out.
 
2017-08-31 08:34:09 PM  

rightylefty: I think Tillerson correctly realizes that he's the highest level sane adult in the administration. When the indictments come, I hope he's the top man left standing.


I expect he's got about 60 days, at most. Soon, Trump will Twitter troll him like he did Sessions. Unlike the Keebler Elf, Sir Exxon Valdez has some pride.
 
2017-08-31 08:34:14 PM  
Rich Lowry is editor of National Review and a contributing editor with Politico Magazine.

The author is just upset that this reflects on the GOP.

What would he be saying if this was happening under a H. Clinton administration?
 
2017-08-31 08:36:25 PM  

Diogenes: I'm sure Mattis, Kelly, and McMasters are fine men and know what they're doing and are doing it on behalf of their country.

But I find it a little concerning, given our long-standing philosophy of civilian control of both our government and military, that we are taking so much comfort that the generals are effectively in charge.

I do not distrust any of them.  But this is a bad scenario.  And yet we are accepting of it because of just how frightening and out of his league this president is.


I prefer to think of them as the bouncers keeping a close eye on the club owner's drunken cokehead son whose pissing everybody off. They know they can't throw him out, but they're making sure he doesn't stray too far from his barstool to start anything.
 
2017-08-31 08:36:38 PM  

rightylefty: I think Tillerson correctly realizes that he's the highest level sane adult in the administration.


It's still exaggeration to call him a "capable" SoS. And it's gonna take a lot more than this to make up for his fawning praise on June 12.
 
2017-08-31 08:38:20 PM  

chrismurphy: rightylefty: I think Tillerson correctly realizes that he's the highest level sane adult in the administration. When the indictments come, I hope he's the top man left standing.

I expect he's got about 60 days, at most. Soon, Trump will Twitter troll him like he did Sessions. Unlike the Keebler Elf, Sir Exxon Valdez has some pride.


and an 8-figure retirement package.
 
2017-08-31 08:38:24 PM  

Diogenes: I'm sure Mattis, Kelly, and McMasters are fine men and know what they're doing and are doing it on behalf of their country.

But I find it a little concerning, given our long-standing philosophy of civilian control of both our government and military, that we are taking so much comfort that the generals are effectively in charge.

I do not distrust any of them.  But this is a bad scenario.  And yet we are accepting of it because of just how frightening and out of his league this president is.


Hey you live in an age/place where a possible majority think being military should be a requirement for at least defense secretary (and many people think president should also have to be ex military).

Your founders knew that it should be a negative indicator, hence outright banning it for seven years after being in service, but that understanding, and the need for the supremacy of the civil government over the military as an absolute, are pretty much dead in the water.

3 retired generals in 3 of the most important roles in an administration (with more in the pipeline) is disturbing.
 
2017-08-31 08:39:14 PM  

stoli n coke: Diogenes: I'm sure Mattis, Kelly, and McMasters are fine men and know what they're doing and are doing it on behalf of their country.

But I find it a little concerning, given our long-standing philosophy of civilian control of both our government and military, that we are taking so much comfort that the generals are effectively in charge.

I do not distrust any of them.  But this is a bad scenario.  And yet we are accepting of it because of just how frightening and out of his league this president is.

I prefer to think of them as the bouncers keeping a close eye on the club owner's drunken cokehead son whose pissing everybody off. They know they can't throw him out, but they're making sure he doesn't stray too far from his barstool to start anything.


This analogy says what I wanted to say a few posts up but better.
 
2017-08-31 08:48:13 PM  

rightylefty: I think Tillerson correctly realizes that he's the highest level sane adult in the administration. When the indictments come, I hope he's the top man left standing.


He won't be... The only reason he's critical of Trump is because his master in Moscow is pissed because Congress has tied Trump's hands on Russia.
 
2017-08-31 08:48:14 PM  
But the least they could do is not air this patronizing attitude. They are impressive and accomplished people, but no one elected any of them president of the United States. They don't do the country any favors by highlighting Trump's weakness and by making it obvious that the American government doesn't speak with one voice.
It should be up to chief of staff John Kelly to make it stop. What these officials are doing is much worse than a White House aide slipping into the Oval Office to leave a printed article from WorldNetDaily on a corner of the Resolute Desk. It's worse than Steve Bannon feverishly trying to undermine H.R. McMaster, which is simply staff-level intramural politics taken to another level.
This isn't "the system working," the cliché for how various other power centers have thwarted Trump in the early going. It's the system gone haywire and tottering on the brink of a more serious crisis.

Racists have said the exact same thing: This isn't the proper response to my behavior! This shouldn't be how you act when I say awful things or do terrible deeds! It's inappropriate! It's bad manners! It doesn't set a good example!

You know what? Don't be a f*cking racist.

And you know what, Rich Lowry? Donnie shouldn't be such a c*nt.
 
2017-08-31 08:48:55 PM  

gaspode: Diogenes: I'm sure Mattis, Kelly, and McMasters are fine men and know what they're doing and are doing it on behalf of their country.

But I find it a little concerning, given our long-standing philosophy of civilian control of both our government and military, that we are taking so much comfort that the generals are effectively in charge.

I do not distrust any of them.  But this is a bad scenario.  And yet we are accepting of it because of just how frightening and out of his league this president is.

Hey you live in an age/place where a possible majority think being military should be a requirement for at least defense secretary (and many people think president should also have to be ex military).

Your founders knew that it should be a negative indicator, hence outright banning it for seven years after being in service, but that understanding, and the need for the supremacy of the civil government over the military as an absolute, are pretty much dead in the water.

3 retired generals in 3 of the most important roles in an administration (with more in the pipeline) is disturbing.


I don't necessarily disagree with this sentiment, but it is worth noting that it is not a founders / constitutional requirement, but a law from 1947 that put the wait time into place.
 
2017-08-31 08:49:58 PM  

chrismurphy: rightylefty: I think Tillerson correctly realizes that he's the highest level sane adult in the administration. When the indictments come, I hope he's the top man left standing.

I expect he's got about 60 days, at most. Soon, Trump will Twitter troll him like he did Sessions. Unlike the Keebler Elf, Sir Exxon Valdez has some pride.


He came in saying he planned to stay until December.  He can tough it out.
 
2017-08-31 08:52:18 PM  

Diogenes: I'm sure Mattis, Kelly, and McMasters are fine men and know what they're doing and are doing it on behalf of their country.

But I find it a little concerning, given our long-standing philosophy of civilian control of both our government and military, that we are taking so much comfort that the generals are effectively in charge.

I do not distrust any of them.  But this is a bad scenario.  And yet we are accepting of it because of just how frightening and out of his league this president is.


I think part of the acceptance is because of the overwhelming glorification of all things military over the last two decades or so. I don't distrust any of the three men you mentioned either but I'd rather have AT LEAST one of them be a James Baker, Leon Panetta type.
 
2017-08-31 08:54:17 PM  

gaspode: Diogenes: I'm sure Mattis, Kelly, and McMasters are fine men and know what they're doing and are doing it on behalf of their country.

But I find it a little concerning, given our long-standing philosophy of civilian control of both our government and military, that we are taking so much comfort that the generals are effectively in charge.

I do not distrust any of them.  But this is a bad scenario.  And yet we are accepting of it because of just how frightening and out of his league this president is.

Hey you live in an age/place where a possible majority think being military should be a requirement for at least defense secretary (and many people think president should also have to be ex military).

Your founders knew that it should be a negative indicator, hence outright banning it for seven years after being in service, but that understanding, and the need for the supremacy of the civil government over the military as an absolute, are pretty much dead in the water.

3 retired generals in 3 of the most important roles in an administration (with more in the pipeline) is disturbing.


The founders didn't introduce that ban.
 
2017-08-31 08:56:08 PM  
Good catch, my bad

They understood very well the need for supremacy of civil government over military though right?
 
2017-08-31 08:57:07 PM  
Re: SoS, nope.

thread
 
2017-08-31 08:57:44 PM  

gaspode: Good catch, my bad

They understood very well the need for supremacy of civil government over military though right?


That they did
 
2017-08-31 08:59:43 PM  
Diogenes:  But I find it a little concerning, given our long-standing philosophy of civilian control of both our government and military, that we are taking so much comfort that the generals are effectively in charge.

At least one of those isn't General Flynn?
 
2017-08-31 09:00:12 PM  

rightylefty: I think Tillerson correctly realizes that he's the highest level sane adult in the administration. When the indictments come, I hope he's the top man left standing.


Him, Mad Dog, Kelly, Cohn, and Mnuchin aren't dirty. (Well Mnuchin and Cohn are covered in shiat, but not the illegal kind - just the moral kind)

Wilbur Ross farking ran Cyprus Bank, and he's going to be the next Domino after Manafort flips.
 
2017-08-31 09:07:50 PM  

rightylefty: I think Tillerson correctly realizes that he's the highest level sane adult in the administration. When the indictments come, I hope he's the top man left standing.


As much as Tillerson has been reasonable (a big ask from Trump's cronies), I sure as hell don't want him anywhere near the Presidency.
 
2017-08-31 09:08:10 PM  
Diogenes:
But I find it a little concerning, given our long-standing philosophy of civilian control of both our government and military, that we are taking so much comfort that the generals are effectively in charge.

A military coup with a light touch?

I'll take it. Anything to get this maniac on the sidelines.
 
2017-08-31 09:12:09 PM  
Daniel W. Drezner is a professor of international politics at the Fletcher School of Law and Diplomacy at Tufts University, says Tillerson is incompetent and should resign.
 
2017-08-31 09:12:59 PM  
But Tillerson sucks actually. He's a horrible SoS who either doesn't understand his job or is actively dismantling American diplomacy.

The only one I'm pretty sure isn't involved is Orrin Hatch.
 
2017-08-31 09:14:05 PM  
So ok to start calling him President No-balls?
 
2017-08-31 09:16:16 PM  

ColonelCathcart: rightylefty: I think Tillerson correctly realizes that he's the highest level sane adult in the administration. When the indictments come, I hope he's the top man left standing.

 (Well Mnuchin and Cohn are covered in shiat, but not the illegal kind - just the moral kind)


Mnuchin should have been prosecuted. This is one of my main disagreements with Obama. There should have been widespread prosecutions, and Mnuchin was a poster boy for the abuses.
 
2017-08-31 09:21:16 PM  
Donnie picks generals because they wear shiny things on their uniforms. Don't go looking for any deeper significance -- there isn't any.
 
2017-08-31 09:26:36 PM  
Tillerson? No. He's way out of his element and the State Department is flailing.
 
2017-08-31 09:32:20 PM  
Those people are there to run the country for the 0.01%. SecDef chosen for the military industry, Sec state for Oil, Treasury and Fed for Banking bastards. Trump's job is to be the smokesceen. Period.
 
2017-08-31 09:33:48 PM  

Sheila_McSly: But Tillerson sucks actually. He's a horrible SoS who either doesn't understand his job or is actively dismantling American diplomacy.

The only one I'm pretty sure isn't involved is Orrin Hatch.


I don't know how actively and personally corrupt Tillerson actually is, but yeah, for whatever reason, he's overseen the deliberate gutting of the State Department. I suppose he'd be an improvement over Trump, but not much of one. Mattis is the only one I'd say is even trying to do the right thing by the country.
 
2017-08-31 09:33:51 PM  
Tillerson is every inch as crooked as the Flim Flam Führer. He's just sneakier about it. The only sane person in this administration is the Mad Dog.
 
2017-08-31 10:02:47 PM  

silly season: Rich Lowry is editor of National Review and a contributing editor with Politico Magazine.

The author is just upset that this reflects on the GOP.

What would he be saying if this was happening under a H. Clinton administration?


It's a shame he spent all his sniglet money and had to start selling himself to the right wing media.
 
2017-08-31 10:26:43 PM  

rightylefty: I think Tillerson correctly realizes that he's the highest level sane adult in the administration. When the indictments come, I hope he's the top man left standing.


No, fark Tillerson. Just because he's the second-tallest midget in this circus doesn't make him a hero. He's still grossly ineffective in his position and has systematically disassembled the country's diplomatic arm. He's only doing this kind of shiat to cover his own ass. He's neck deep in this Russia shiat too. He's the former CEO of Exxon for fark's sake--you don't think he's holding a big chunk of that anonymous 19% of Rosneft that nobody can account for?

Sorry but if you're on Trump's team, you're on Trump's team. Being less of an incompetent prick than the others gets you no bonus.
 
2017-08-31 10:48:53 PM  

NobleHam: Tillerson? No. He's way out of his element and the State Department is flailing.


Tillerson's many failings have been well documented in this thread. Given that by any objective measure, he is, as you wrote, "way out of his element", I can only surmise that any positive opinion of him is subjective. Sure, in almost any other administration he'd look like the village idiot, but when surrounded by the rest of the people in this administration, people like Six-Gun Perry, Dr. Somnambulist, a former banking executive who is steeped in the mysteries of Hollywood's financial gimmickry and is now in charge of the Treasury, and a woman who hates public schools running the Department of Education. It's possible Tillerson could be seen as capable and intelligent by some, even if only by comparison.
 
2017-08-31 10:52:59 PM  
FTFA:"They don't do the country any favors by highlighting Trump's weakness and by making it obvious that the American government doesn't speak with one voice."

i.pinimg.comView Full Size
 
2017-08-31 10:54:10 PM  
Last I hear Tillerson wasn't filling any second-tier roles in the State Department, he was lost and clueless, and so out of his element that he gave the order that career State Department employees couldn't even make eye contact with him.  When did he all of the sudden become competent?  What has he actually done that demonstrates competency?
 
2017-08-31 10:55:24 PM  

ViolentEastCoastCity: Subby, you say that as if any other picks have worked out.  Those are literally the only two examples of halfway competent people.  And I still think Tillerson is an asshole and should go f*ck himself.


He is, and should.
 
2017-08-31 11:05:14 PM  

Krieghund: Last I hear Tillerson wasn't filling any second-tier roles in the State Department, he was lost and clueless, and so out of his element that he gave the order that career State Department employees couldn't even make eye contact with him.  When did he all of the sudden become competent?  What has he actually done that demonstrates competency?


Based on TFA, I'm assuming that the sole basis for Tillerson being described as intelligent and capable is that he's been insubordinate to Trump
 
2017-08-31 11:07:36 PM  
Let's be honest. Trump didn't pick anyone. He just nominated people he was told to.
 
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