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(Talking Points Memo)   Secretary of Defense James Mattis on North Korea:"'We're never out of diplomatic options." Saddam Hussein unavailable for comment   ( talkingpointsmemo.com) divider line
    More: Followup, United States Department of Defense, Defense James Mattis, Korea, South Korea, President Donald Trump, Donald Trump, George W. Bush, Minister Song Young-Moo  
•       •       •

439 clicks; posted to Politics » on 30 Aug 2017 at 9:14 PM (15 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2017-08-30 04:23:26 PM  
"For instance, and this is a novel new strategy for the administration...we could TRY diplomatic options," he went on to say.  "Or at least, we could if we had any diplomats left.  But actually filling the State Department positions is a KIND of option."
 
2017-08-30 04:30:26 PM  
Sometimes you have to diplomatically kill a guy so you can get more diplomacy out of his replacement.
 
2017-08-30 04:45:48 PM  
We could just ignore North Korea. Sure, it's a bad place, but it can't attack anyone without being crushed in response (and it has to know that).

China likes having it where it is, but even China doesn't seem willing to allow it to expand beyond its current borders.

I vote that we keep an eye on any shenanigans North Korea tries outside of its own borders, but otherwise leave it alone. They have nukes? Fine. Hell, Pakistan has nukes and we barely notice.

We get along fine with all kinds of terrible countries.
 
2017-08-30 04:53:09 PM  
James Mattis is famously known for being very diplomatic. . .and having a backup plan in case diplomacy works.

s2.quickmeme.comView Full Size
 
2017-08-30 05:17:16 PM  
One gets the feeling President Trump...isn't anymore.  In practice, anyway.
 
2017-08-30 05:51:25 PM  
Thank god for grownups.
 
2017-08-30 07:18:53 PM  
This contradiction, Tillerson's contradiction over Charlottesville, the Arpaio paperwork not being filed yet (maybe), Pence and people spearheading Harvey response while Trump was alone at Camp David. We may be in a soft coup...
 
2017-08-30 07:24:49 PM  

somedude210: This contradiction, Tillerson's contradiction over Charlottesville, the Arpaio paperwork not being filed yet (maybe), Pence and people spearheading Harvey response while Trump was alone at Camp David. We may be in a soft coup...


This is 100% wishful thinking and people need to stop it. Trump's cabinet is not going to save us from Trump. Trump's disregard for the day-to-day details of his job does not somehow make him less dangerous.
 
2017-08-30 07:25:06 PM  

somedude210: This contradiction, Tillerson's contradiction over Charlottesville, the Arpaio paperwork not being filed yet (maybe), Pence and people spearheading Harvey response while Trump was alone at Camp David. We may be in a soft coup...


The books on this are going to be legendary.  I may need to buy extra shelf space and another Kindle.
 
2017-08-30 07:31:33 PM  

Cagey B: somedude210: This contradiction, Tillerson's contradiction over Charlottesville, the Arpaio paperwork not being filed yet (maybe), Pence and people spearheading Harvey response while Trump was alone at Camp David. We may be in a soft coup...

This is 100% wishful thinking and people need to stop it. Trump's cabinet is not going to save us from Trump. Trump's disregard for the day-to-day details of his job does not somehow make him less dangerous.


Then there was the whole "Let's call Pence back from a Latin America trip and drag everyone to Camp David (a place Trump is on the record as hating vehemently) for an impromptu security briefing on North Korea.  Wait, scratch that - Afghanistan.  Nope, strike that - South Asia.  Look, what can we say to convince you guys that we totally didn't just drag Two Scoops down here to tell him that he doesn't get to play with the big boy toys anymore?"

There is something going on, and for once, Two Scoops looks like he's going to be left holding the f*cking bag.
 
2017-08-30 07:38:56 PM  
Also, don't forget his strange absence from everything last weekend. Even Twitter. Something happened at that meeting they cut Pence's trip short for.
 
2017-08-30 07:45:24 PM  

Clutch2013: Cagey B: somedude210: This contradiction, Tillerson's contradiction over Charlottesville, the Arpaio paperwork not being filed yet (maybe), Pence and people spearheading Harvey response while Trump was alone at Camp David. We may be in a soft coup...

This is 100% wishful thinking and people need to stop it. Trump's cabinet is not going to save us from Trump. Trump's disregard for the day-to-day details of his job does not somehow make him less dangerous.

Then there was the whole "Let's call Pence back from a Latin America trip and drag everyone to Camp David (a place Trump is on the record as hating vehemently) for an impromptu security briefing on North Korea.  Wait, scratch that - Afghanistan.  Nope, strike that - South Asia.  Look, what can we say to convince you guys that we totally didn't just drag Two Scoops down here to tell him that he doesn't get to play with the big boy toys anymore?"

There is something going on, and for once, Two Scoops looks like he's going to be left holding the f*cking bag.


I too wish to believe that Trump will somehow be neutralized without having to endure more of his influence between now and the time at which he's impeached/arrested/strokes out/etc. I also know that he's a pathological narcissist who turns on everyone around him and will take country-altering actions just to piss someone off because they tried to tell him what to do.

It's easy to forget because every day brings a fresh insult to reasoned governance, but this is a man who fired the guy investigating him and then repeatedly lied about it in the half-assed manner of someone who doesn't give a shiat whether anyone except his brownshirt followers believe him or not. The instant he feels like he's not receiving his daily allotment of ass-kissing and worship, the offending party will be tossed out. I would lay money on John Kelly being out within three months. And who's going to stop him? Who stopped him when he fired everyone else that he's fired?

It's really difficult to overstate how f*cking awful I find Trump. But I don't take any solace in flimsy stories about how his collection of predatory goons has somehow managed to placate him temporarily.
 
2017-08-30 08:37:12 PM  

Cagey B: Clutch2013: Cagey B: somedude210: This contradiction, Tillerson's contradiction over Charlottesville, the Arpaio paperwork not being filed yet (maybe), Pence and people spearheading Harvey response while Trump was alone at Camp David. We may be in a soft coup...

This is 100% wishful thinking and people need to stop it. Trump's cabinet is not going to save us from Trump. Trump's disregard for the day-to-day details of his job does not somehow make him less dangerous.

Then there was the whole "Let's call Pence back from a Latin America trip and drag everyone to Camp David (a place Trump is on the record as hating vehemently) for an impromptu security briefing on North Korea.  Wait, scratch that - Afghanistan.  Nope, strike that - South Asia.  Look, what can we say to convince you guys that we totally didn't just drag Two Scoops down here to tell him that he doesn't get to play with the big boy toys anymore?"

There is something going on, and for once, Two Scoops looks like he's going to be left holding the f*cking bag.

I too wish to believe that Trump will somehow be neutralized without having to endure more of his influence between now and the time at which he's impeached/arrested/strokes out/etc. I also know that he's a pathological narcissist who turns on everyone around him and will take country-altering actions just to piss someone off because they tried to tell him what to do.

It's easy to forget because every day brings a fresh insult to reasoned governance, but this is a man who fired the guy investigating him and then repeatedly lied about it in the half-assed manner of someone who doesn't give a shiat whether anyone except his brownshirt followers believe him or not. The instant he feels like he's not receiving his daily allotment of ass-kissing and worship, the offending party will be tossed out. I would lay money on John Kelly being out within three months. And who's going to stop him? Who stopped him when he fired everyone else that he's fired?

It's ...


The thing is, Trump isn't being placated.  He's being neutered.

His advisers are openly going onto TV and saying that the man they work for has no idea what the hell is going on, much less what he's talking about.  And he's down to Rorbacher, Nunes, and a pussy-whipped Ryan for allies in Congress.  Everyone else either openly hates him or ducks away from the question because they haven't yet figured out how to do it without pissing off the people who voted for him.

The minute they do, or the consequences of that get overshadowed by the consequences of being tied to him, they won't just throw him under the bus - they'll fight each other to drive the bus.
 
2017-08-30 09:03:07 PM  
C'mon, George W Bush gave us 6,000 heroes.

Heroes in a box.  Over a pack of lies he told about weapons that were not there.
 
2017-08-30 09:08:06 PM  

Clutch2013: His advisers are openly going onto TV and saying that the man they work for has no idea what the hell is going on, much less what he's talking about.


don't forget his secretaries going on tv and outright contradicting the message from the Oval Office. Look at how many stories of late start with "Mixed messages from the Trump administration..."

They're not mixed. One party just doesn't realize he's being sidelined yet
 
2017-08-30 09:16:28 PM  
Its almost as if that's the entire reason Saddam wanted nukes in the first place

Hmmm

:thonking:
 
2017-08-30 09:18:17 PM  
"War is a continuation of diplomacy by other means" - H. Vetinari
 
2017-08-30 09:23:16 PM  
The cleansing fire of nuclear radiation IS a diplomatic option....

/ not serious
 
2017-08-30 09:26:18 PM  

iheartscotch: The cleansing fire of nuclear radiation IS a diplomatic option....

/ not serious


Tell that to your farkin boss
 
2017-08-30 09:28:56 PM  
They aren't even pretending that Trump is actually presidenting anymore,
 
2017-08-30 09:30:26 PM  

hugadarn: iheartscotch: The cleansing fire of nuclear radiation IS a diplomatic option....

/ not serious

Tell that to your farkin boss


img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2017-08-30 09:31:15 PM  
There were plenty of diplomatic options in 2003. The fact that Bush and Co ignored them doesn't need mean they weren't there.
 
2017-08-30 09:32:22 PM  
Lil' Kim fired missiles over Japan as a provocation. Since he's not getting the reaction he wants, he'll soon launch one or two by Guam.

He knows the end game means his death at the hands of the Americans. He's shown he willing to sacrifice anybody to maintain his power. He's going to keep poking Trump until Trump reacts, because then he can hope to bring others into the fight he can't win alone.
 
2017-08-30 09:38:30 PM  
Bah, he's not "unavailable for comment", you just didn't get the items he demanded to be interviewed:

img.fark.netView Full Size


/you might want to not keep him too long too
//unless you can sell tickets for a headless dictator haunting
 
2017-08-30 09:39:01 PM  

iheartscotch: hugadarn: iheartscotch: The cleansing fire of nuclear radiation IS a diplomatic option....

/ not serious

Tell that to your farkin boss

[img.fark.net image 280x210]


Dang phone. Didn't mean to quote supposed to be a response to the headline. I'll clean out my locker and show myself out. (._.)
 
2017-08-30 09:41:19 PM  

aaronx: We could just ignore North Korea. Sure, it's a bad place, but it can't attack anyone without being crushed in response (and it has to know that).

China likes having it where it is, but even China doesn't seem willing to allow it to expand beyond its current borders.

I vote that we keep an eye on any shenanigans North Korea tries outside of its own borders, but otherwise leave it alone. They have nukes? Fine. Hell, Pakistan has nukes and we barely notice.

We get along fine with all kinds of terrible countries.


"I vote that we keep an eye on any shenanigans North Korea tries outside of its own borders, but otherwise leave it alone. "

I vote that we do everything we can to stop the genocide and Halaucaust-like murders that have gone too long, Mr Chamberlain. Burying our heads in the sand while millions are starve for political reasons is not what my conscious can tolerate anymore.

Oh, wait, you probably don't know anything I'm speaking of because 8 years of Obama igoring the problem has convinced you that it isn't serious and isn't our issue or problem. fark elm and their political genocide victims. Why does it matter to us if children are sent to death camps with their parents? Doesn't mean my kids are unsafe!

If only I had your level of ignorance.
 
2017-08-30 09:51:25 PM  

Loose_Cannon: aaronx: We could just ignore North Korea. Sure, it's a bad place, but it can't attack anyone without being crushed in response (and it has to know that).

China likes having it where it is, but even China doesn't seem willing to allow it to expand beyond its current borders.

I vote that we keep an eye on any shenanigans North Korea tries outside of its own borders, but otherwise leave it alone. They have nukes? Fine. Hell, Pakistan has nukes and we barely notice.

We get along fine with all kinds of terrible countries.

"I vote that we keep an eye on any shenanigans North Korea tries outside of its own borders, but otherwise leave it alone. "

I vote that we do everything we can to stop the genocide and Halaucaust-like murders that have gone too long, Mr Chamberlain. Burying our heads in the sand while millions are starve for political reasons is not what my conscious can tolerate anymore.

Oh, wait, you probably don't know anything I'm speaking of because 8 years of Obama igoring the problem has convinced you that it isn't serious and isn't our issue or problem. fark elm and their political genocide victims. Why does it matter to us if children are sent to death camps with their parents? Doesn't mean my kids are unsafe!

If only I had your level of ignorance.


Actually, I think it was 8 years of Bush ignoring it that convinced him. Or was it 8 years of Clinton? A couple of years of Bush Sr? I mean, the Soviets had fallen, and China wasn't the huge trade partner it is now yet...
 
2017-08-30 09:55:13 PM  
I don't want any sort of military action against NK, but I don't understand why the rhetoric jumps straight to nuclear war. Surely we are more than capable of destroying whatever the president thinks needs destroying without launching nukes? Is this just another one of his many sick fetishes to somehow convince himself and others he is in charge?
 
2017-08-30 09:56:09 PM  
It would be easier to believe if we had a fully functioning State Department.
 
2017-08-30 09:58:51 PM  

Loose_Cannon: aaronx: We could just ignore North Korea. Sure, it's a bad place, but it can't attack anyone without being crushed in response (and it has to know that).

China likes having it where it is, but even China doesn't seem willing to allow it to expand beyond its current borders.

I vote that we keep an eye on any shenanigans North Korea tries outside of its own borders, but otherwise leave it alone. They have nukes? Fine. Hell, Pakistan has nukes and we barely notice.

We get along fine with all kinds of terrible countries.

"I vote that we keep an eye on any shenanigans North Korea tries outside of its own borders, but otherwise leave it alone. "

I vote that we do everything we can to stop the genocide and Halaucaust-like murders that have gone too long, Mr Chamberlain. Burying our heads in the sand while millions are starve for political reasons is not what my conscious can tolerate anymore.

Oh, wait, you probably don't know anything I'm speaking of because 8 years of Obama igoring the problem has convinced you that it isn't serious and isn't our issue or problem. fark elm and their political genocide victims. Why does it matter to us if children are sent to death camps with their parents? Doesn't mean my kids are unsafe!

If only I had your level of ignorance.


Go fight then.

No, wait, I have friends in Seoul and don't want you getting them killed.  I guess you have to just stay home and jack it to Rambo movies.

/don't want to hear about your prior service, if any
 
2017-08-30 09:59:35 PM  

aaronx: We could just ignore North Korea. Sure, it's a bad place, but it can't attack anyone without being crushed in response (and it has to know that).

China likes having it where it is, but even China doesn't seem willing to allow it to expand beyond its current borders.

I vote that we keep an eye on any shenanigans North Korea tries outside of its own borders, but otherwise leave it alone. They have nukes? Fine. Hell, Pakistan has nukes and we barely notice.

We get along fine with all kinds of terrible countries.


Ignoring the problem won't make it go away. And allowing it to continue is to allow a destabilizing situation to potentially develop into something severe. I believe China should be in on a solution, but I don't think ignoring it is the right answer.
 
2017-08-30 10:00:46 PM  

Karma Chameleon: I don't want any sort of military action against NK, but I don't understand why the rhetoric jumps straight to nuclear war. Surely we are more than capable of destroying whatever the president thinks needs destroying without launching nukes? Is this just another one of his many sick fetishes to somehow convince himself and others he is in charge?


If NK nukes something, nukes are the ONLY response that makes sense. Otherwise, we severely compromise deterrence.

But other than that, we shouldn't use nukes.
 
2017-08-30 10:02:47 PM  

Ocean_Pimp: Its almost as if that's the entire reason Saddam wanted nukes in the first place

Hmmm

:thonking:


The reason ANYONE wants nukes is to be able to lay waste to their enemies and thus have a powerful deterrence.
 
2017-08-30 10:23:52 PM  

vygramul: Ocean_Pimp: Its almost as if that's the entire reason Saddam wanted nukes in the first place

Hmmm

:thonking:

The reason ANYONE wants nukes is to be able to lay waste to their enemies and thus have a powerful deterrence.


One asshole got invaded and killed. The other asshole goes free. What is the only major military difference between the two....
 
2017-08-30 10:25:11 PM  
I'm gonna find the guy who said, "Talking is not the answer," and slap him with my balls.
 
2017-08-30 10:47:01 PM  

recondite cetacean: I'm gonna find the guy who said, "Talking is not the answer," and slap him with my balls.


Sounds like you agree with him.
 
2017-08-30 10:54:17 PM  

Loose_Cannon: aaronx: We could just ignore North Korea. Sure, it's a bad place, but it can't attack anyone without being crushed in response (and it has to know that).

China likes having it where it is, but even China doesn't seem willing to allow it to expand beyond its current borders.

I vote that we keep an eye on any shenanigans North Korea tries outside of its own borders, but otherwise leave it alone. They have nukes? Fine. Hell, Pakistan has nukes and we barely notice.

We get along fine with all kinds of terrible countries.

"I vote that we keep an eye on any shenanigans North Korea tries outside of its own borders, but otherwise leave it alone. "

I vote that we do everything we can to stop the genocide and Halaucaust-like murders that have gone too long, Mr Chamberlain. Burying our heads in the sand while millions are starve for political reasons is not what my conscious can tolerate anymore.

Oh, wait, you probably don't know anything I'm speaking of because 8 years of Obama igoring the problem has convinced you that it isn't serious and isn't our issue or problem. fark elm and their political genocide victims. Why does it matter to us if children are sent to death camps with their parents? Doesn't mean my kids are unsafe!

If only I had your level of ignorance.


I'd be happy to hear some sensible solutions vis-à-vis Korea, but I haven't yet. Chamberlain was appeasing Hitler's extra-territorial aggression, and (inadvertently) encouraged Hitler to keep pushing. I don't see where North Korean blustering rises to the level of annexing portions of Czechoslovakia. I don't even see it as being in the same category.

Invading countries to save them from themselves has a pretty poor track-record, historically, and that's putting it mildly. Your approach to handling Korea dismays me, but I'm OK with that. A lot of things dismay me, yet I carry on.

You are welcome to keep whichever level of ignorance you currently enjoy. And I'm happy with mine, thanks.
 
2017-08-30 10:55:30 PM  

Ocean_Pimp: vygramul: Ocean_Pimp: Its almost as if that's the entire reason Saddam wanted nukes in the first place

Hmmm

:thonking:

The reason ANYONE wants nukes is to be able to lay waste to their enemies and thus have a powerful deterrence.

One asshole got invaded and killed. The other asshole goes free. What is the only major military difference between the two....


In 2003?

China.
 
2017-08-30 10:56:57 PM  

Loose_Cannon: aaronx: We could just ignore North Korea. Sure, it's a bad place, but it can't attack anyone without being crushed in response (and it has to know that).

China likes having it where it is, but even China doesn't seem willing to allow it to expand beyond its current borders.

I vote that we keep an eye on any shenanigans North Korea tries outside of its own borders, but otherwise leave it alone. They have nukes? Fine. Hell, Pakistan has nukes and we barely notice.

We get along fine with all kinds of terrible countries.

"I vote that we keep an eye on any shenanigans North Korea tries outside of its own borders, but otherwise leave it alone. "

I vote that we do everything we can to stop the genocide and Halaucaust-like murders that have gone too long, Mr Chamberlain. Burying our heads in the sand while millions are starve for political reasons is not what my conscious can tolerate anymore.

Oh, wait, you probably don't know anything I'm speaking of because 8 years of Obama igoring the problem has convinced you that it isn't serious and isn't our issue or problem. fark elm and their political genocide victims. Why does it matter to us if children are sent to death camps with their parents? Doesn't mean my kids are unsafe!

If only I had your level of ignorance.


Username fits
 
2017-08-30 11:03:26 PM  

AquaTatanka: Loose_Cannon: aaronx: We could just ignore North Korea. Sure, it's a bad place, but it can't attack anyone without being crushed in response (and it has to know that).

China likes having it where it is, but even China doesn't seem willing to allow it to expand beyond its current borders.

I vote that we keep an eye on any shenanigans North Korea tries outside of its own borders, but otherwise leave it alone. They have nukes? Fine. Hell, Pakistan has nukes and we barely notice.

We get along fine with all kinds of terrible countries.

"I vote that we keep an eye on any shenanigans North Korea tries outside of its own borders, but otherwise leave it alone. "

I vote that we do everything we can to stop the genocide and Halaucaust-like murders that have gone too long, Mr Chamberlain. Burying our heads in the sand while millions are starve for political reasons is not what my conscious can tolerate anymore.

Oh, wait, you probably don't know anything I'm speaking of because 8 years of Obama igoring the problem has convinced you that it isn't serious and isn't our issue or problem. fark elm and their political genocide victims. Why does it matter to us if children are sent to death camps with their parents? Doesn't mean my kids are unsafe!

If only I had your level of ignorance.

Username fits


People stopped biting on his JimmyMissiles warmongering alt.
 
2017-08-30 11:07:42 PM  
Loose_Cannon:  8 years of Obama igoring the problem has convinced you that it isn't serious

8 years of GWB ignoring the problem

8 years of Clinton ignoring the problem

4 years of Papa Bush ignoring the problem

8 years of Reagan ignoring the problem

Welcome to the party!
 
2017-08-31 12:12:08 AM  

DVOM: Loose_Cannon:  8 years of Obama igoring the problem has convinced you that it isn't serious

8 years of GWB ignoring the problem

8 years of Clinton ignoring the problem

4 years of Papa Bush ignoring the problem

8 years of Reagan ignoring the problem

Welcome to the party!


Now if we could just get Kim to ignore his United States problem.
 
2017-08-31 12:41:26 AM  
I heard this in BBC Radio earlier.
I chuckled sovietly at the thought of the tweetstorm coming.
 
2017-08-31 12:46:46 AM  

somedude210: This contradiction, Tillerson's contradiction over Charlottesville, the Arpaio paperwork not being filed yet (maybe), Pence and people spearheading Harvey response while Trump was alone at Camp David. We may be in a soft coup...


Stop it. I just got the strangest boner.
 
2017-08-31 12:55:03 AM  

somedude210: Also, don't forget his strange absence from everything last weekend. Even Twitter. Something happened at that meeting they cut Pence's trip short for.


I didn't think my pecker could get any harder.
I'm giddy at the thought of a neutered trump.
 
2017-08-31 12:59:13 AM  

Jake Havechek: C'mon, George W Bush gave us 6,000 heroes.

Heroes in a box.  Over a pack of lies he told about weapons that were not there.


We need a good world War to eliminate 30 to 40 percent of the kids of fighting age between 18 and 35.
And to boost the military spending.
 
2017-08-31 02:14:18 AM  

somedude210: Also, don't forget his strange absence from everything last weekend. Even Twitter. Something happened at that meeting they cut Pence's trip short for.


and the two-day appearance at the Trump Towers. routine maintenance on the server?
 
2017-08-31 04:01:14 AM  
Ask Libya how America plays ball when you got jack.
 
2017-08-31 05:27:44 AM  
Honestly, there are a few options for how this could go down in a way that doesn't spark world war three.

1: We have a sit down with China, and in exchange for their cooperation in maintaining an exclusive economic zone that *doesn't* interfere with regional shipping transit, and some other nonsense that makes them think we're playing a horrible game of hardball, they agree to annex North Korea, and be rid of the oppressive regime. South Korea becomes "Korea", and is recognized as an independent nation. North Korea is hit so hard, so fast from the -wrong border- that I doubt they could muster a serious defense. China gains new territory, and maybe a little face with the UN. We get to not have -two- lunatics with nuclear bombs to worry about on a weekly basis. Win-Win.

2: We wait until North Korea actually hits something, be it a US territory, or an ally, giving us casus belli to hit them with something a little more than a sternly worded letter, but a little less than a city buster. A whole bunch of South Koreans get killed, a whole lot of the world isn't happy, but because we waited for them to do something to provoke it, it's a little harder to justify swinging against us in retaliation, even for China, who under no circumstances wants a US sympathetic unified Korean peninsula.

3: We put together something that actually, for once in a blue moon, -doesn't- get leaked to the media, or signed publicly in congress, and take out a very select group of individuals who are problematic to us, then -leave- and never speak a word of it, and hope the next guy in the big chair in North Korea has a vague understanding of not pissing people off. Everyone would "know", but nobody could prove, and that would be enough to prevent world war three.

Or, you know, we could just burn it all down like an idiot. I mean, that outcome doesn't sound nearly as far fetched as it did two years ago.
 
2017-08-31 05:32:30 AM  

swahnhennessy: Ask Libya how America plays ball when you got jack.


We kill people who blow up airliners.
Do you wish more people could blow up airliners with impunity?
 
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