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(The New York Times)   How Trump kills the GOP with identity politics   ( nytimes.com) divider line
    More: Interesting, white identity, Racism, civil rights, white identitarians, conservative white identitarians, Republican Party, Republicans, white supremacist groups  
•       •       •

1633 clicks; posted to Politics » on 29 Aug 2017 at 9:49 PM (15 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



47 Comments     (+0 »)
 
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2017-08-29 05:39:44 PM  
Pre-2008 bigots could still tell themselves that whites would always be the Master Race.

But then a black man got to rule over them
 
2017-08-29 06:01:35 PM  
Between 1984 and 2003 I worked at National Review, The Washington Times, the Wall Street Journal editorial page and The Weekly Standard. Most of my friends were Republicans.

In that time, I never heard blatantly racist comments at dinner parties, and there were probably fewer than a dozen times I heard some veiled comment that could have suggested racism. To be honest, I heard more racial condescension in progressive circles than in conservative ones.


I'm dying to learn what this guys definition of 'racial condescension' is.  Are we really supposed to believe he worked for conservative media at the height of Reaganism and never once heard someone joke about welfare queens?
 
2017-08-29 06:05:29 PM  
I could care less if and how Trump kills the GOP just so long as it's a murder-suicide.
 
2017-08-29 06:47:14 PM  
Yep, yinz are pretty screwed.   It'll be difficult to shake off the racist label now.   Maaaybe you Republicans should have *thought* about that.
 
2017-08-29 06:47:40 PM  
They say this after every election.

The Republicans seemingly breaks down, and then, like the T-1000, they put themselves together again and thrash the Democrats during the midterms when they run on "We're GOP Lite!".

Hell, during the 2016 election season, the Democratic leadership largely sat on the sidelines, hoping that Trump would burn out and take the GOP with him then and there.

Obama's "Please, proceed..." moment in 2012 wasn't simply hoping Romney would screw up, but pinning him down when he did. Democrats frequently forget that second part.
 
2017-08-29 08:00:24 PM  

Karac: Between 1984 and 2003 I worked at National Review, The Washington Times, the Wall Street Journal editorial page and The Weekly Standard. Most of my friends were Republicans.

In that time, I never heard blatantly racist comments at dinner parties, and there were probably fewer than a dozen times I heard some veiled comment that could have suggested racism. To be honest, I heard more racial condescension in progressive circles than in conservative ones.

I'm dying to learn what this guys definition of 'racial condescension' is.  Are we really supposed to believe he worked for conservative media at the height of Reaganism and never once heard someone joke about welfare queens?


Seriously. This guy just exonerated himself. I'm finding it hard to believe him.
 
2017-08-29 08:40:23 PM  
Trump has made racism and anti-Semitism respectable again on the right.

Brooks, like most conservatives, only acknowledges a problem when it starts to inconvenience him personally.

He's Jewish.

David is starting to figure out that his movement "friends" were only friends of Jews when those Jews were in the Holy Land shooting Arabs and screaming for "Amalekite" blood as loudly as any American Islamophobe. They hate diaspora Jews as much as they always did.

I dare say "cuck" is the nicest thing David's friends called him behind his back. The difference now, no doubt, is that they're starting to insult him to his face.
 
2017-08-29 08:41:44 PM  
I have been hearing for years now that the GOP is dead, that they are going to fracture, that fundamental demographics are against them... I'll cheer up when they actually start losing elections.
 
2017-08-29 08:57:25 PM  
They know this is bad.  They have had think tank reports saying so.  They know it is likely a dead-end strategy.

But like the GOP's real attitude towards deficit spending (ok for us evil from you!), they are kicking the can down the road instead of face the moment LBJ did.

LBJ accepted losing the South to be right on civil rights. And at that time you would not expect demographics to move with him.  It was just wrong to not disown the bigots.  All of them.  Always.
 
2017-08-29 09:51:19 PM  

Karac: Between 1984 and 2003 I worked at National Review, The Washington Times, the Wall Street Journal editorial page and The Weekly Standard. Most of my friends were Republicans.

In that time, I never heard blatantly racist comments at dinner parties, and there were probably fewer than a dozen times I heard some veiled comment that could have suggested racism. To be honest, I heard more racial condescension in progressive circles than in conservative ones.

I'm dying to learn what this guys definition of 'racial condescension' is.  Are we really supposed to believe he worked for conservative media at the height of Reaganism and never once heard someone joke about welfare queens?


Those weren't jokes
 
2017-08-29 09:52:30 PM  
Kill the GOP faster.
 
2017-08-29 09:54:05 PM  

Bith Set Me Up: They say this after every election.

The Republicans seemingly breaks down, and then, like the T-1000, they put themselves together again and thrash the Democrats during the midterms when they run on "We're GOP Lite!".

Hell, during the 2016 election season, the Democratic leadership largely sat on the sidelines, hoping that Trump would burn out and take the GOP with him then and there.

Obama's "Please, proceed..." moment in 2012 wasn't simply hoping Romney would screw up, but pinning him down when he did. Democrats frequently forget that second part.


It's not "after every election". "Thrashing the Democrats in the midterms" happened exactly twice, and in the last 50 years there have been only two times when the party in the White House didn't lose seats in the midterms.
 
2017-08-29 09:55:05 PM  

Weatherkiss: Kill the GOP faster.


No fence? Or did I just miss it in this thread?
 
2017-08-29 09:56:52 PM  

qorkfiend: Karac: Between 1984 and 2003 I worked at National Review, The Washington Times, the Wall Street Journal editorial page and The Weekly Standard. Most of my friends were Republicans.

In that time, I never heard blatantly racist comments at dinner parties, and there were probably fewer than a dozen times I heard some veiled comment that could have suggested racism. To be honest, I heard more racial condescension in progressive circles than in conservative ones.

I'm dying to learn what this guys definition of 'racial condescension' is.  Are we really supposed to believe he worked for conservative media at the height of Reaganism and never once heard someone joke about welfare queens?

Those weren't jokes


THIS

The remarks from conservatives he would've agreed were rational observations. It was def the progressives who were condescending, what with all this affirmative action and social safety net nonsense. Conservatives are absolutely certain that all that there handout stuff is simply death to the urbans.

Meals for school kids? Pfffft, you trying to turn them into moochers?
 
2017-08-29 09:56:53 PM  

Weatherkiss: Kill the GOP faster.


So you're for him now?
 
2017-08-29 09:58:31 PM  

qorkfiend: Weatherkiss: Kill the GOP faster.

No fence? Or did I just miss it in this thread?


Naw. The Fark Humor Police took me down.
 
2017-08-29 09:59:04 PM  

doyner: Weatherkiss: Kill the GOP faster.

So you're for him now?


Haven't really decided.
 
2017-08-29 10:00:12 PM  
You may be able to tent and repair the damage or build with metal or concrete, but you'll never really be rid of termites.
 
2017-08-29 10:01:18 PM  
House, Senate, White House, Supreme Court, 26 state governments (compared to 6 Dem controlled). Yup. This is the end for the GOP.

Sorry everyone. This country is farked. Potato out front should have told ya.
 
2017-08-29 10:01:24 PM  
Look we all know its the democrat party and the failing nyt and ESPECIALLY the Jeff Bezos Amazon WaPo that are obsessed with identity politics, not Trump or the GOP.

They're simply OBSESSED with people of supposed Russian nationality that come to Trump properties.  Can't stop talking about it.   But let me tell you something.   It's fake,  folks.   Fake,  all lies.
 
2017-08-29 10:03:52 PM  
So long as we're stuck with the slavery era Electoral College and gerrymandering, the GOP is never going away.
 
2017-08-29 10:04:03 PM  
I'll believe the gop is being screwed over when they don't control the government.
 
2017-08-29 10:04:44 PM  
img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2017-08-29 10:05:08 PM  

Weatherkiss: qorkfiend: Weatherkiss: Kill the GOP faster.

No fence? Or did I just miss it in this thread?

Naw. The Fark Humor Police took me down.


Well, did they at least offer to split your medical bills for as long as you were there,  you must have splinters at least
 
2017-08-29 10:05:51 PM  
The man who claimed his poor friend was undone by an Italian deli thinks liberals were the condescending ones?
 
2017-08-29 10:09:51 PM  

Karac: Are we really supposed to believe he worked for conservative media at the height of Reaganism and never once heard someone joke about welfare queens?


I had heard that phrase a lot when I grew up, and I thought I understood what it meant. It wasn't until fairly recently that I read a book that discussed how the phrase had racial connotations. When I heard the phrase I pictured what I knew: poor white people. Clearly the dog whistle wasn't meant for me, but until recently I could have said I didn't hear racial jokes despite people joking about welfare queens.

I hate to defend David Brooks, though. He's the same guy who wrote an absurd column about how his friend was confused by a farking sandwich shop.
 
2017-08-29 10:13:23 PM  
Part of the Southern Strategy was to have Brooks move the goal posts three counties over in 2017 when people started looking back as confederate flags and statues were coming down, and asking WTF happened?
 
2017-08-29 10:13:42 PM  

lexnaturalis: Karac: Are we really supposed to believe he worked for conservative media at the height of Reaganism and never once heard someone joke about welfare queens?

I had heard that phrase a lot when I grew up, and I thought I understood what it meant. It wasn't until fairly recently that I read a book that discussed how the phrase had racial connotations. When I heard the phrase I pictured what I knew: poor white people. Clearly the dog whistle wasn't meant for me, but until recently I could have said I didn't hear racial jokes despite people joking about welfare queens.

I hate to defend David Brooks, though. He's the same guy who wrote an absurd column about how his friend was confused by a farking sandwich shop.


The whole point of 'welfare queens' was racial connotations. I'm surprised it somehow was emptied of that content for anyone.
 
2017-08-29 10:17:45 PM  

Karac: Between 1984 and 2003 I worked at National Review, The Washington Times, the Wall Street Journal editorial page and The Weekly Standard. Most of my friends were Republicans.

In that time, I never heard blatantly racist comments at dinner parties, and there were probably fewer than a dozen times I heard some veiled comment that could have suggested racism. To be honest, I heard more racial condescension in progressive circles than in conservative ones.

I'm dying to learn what this guys definition of 'racial condescension' is.  Are we really supposed to believe he worked for conservative media at the height of Reaganism and never once heard someone joke about welfare queens?


Or those "strapping young bucks" buying T-bone steaks with food stamps.
 
2017-08-29 10:23:48 PM  

Scorpitron is reduced to a thin red paste: lexnaturalis: Karac: Are we really supposed to believe he worked for conservative media at the height of Reaganism and never once heard someone joke about welfare queens?

I had heard that phrase a lot when I grew up, and I thought I understood what it meant. It wasn't until fairly recently that I read a book that discussed how the phrase had racial connotations. When I heard the phrase I pictured what I knew: poor white people. Clearly the dog whistle wasn't meant for me, but until recently I could have said I didn't hear racial jokes despite people joking about welfare queens.

I hate to defend David Brooks, though. He's the same guy who wrote an absurd column about how his friend was confused by a farking sandwich shop.

The whole point of 'welfare queens' was racial connotations. I'm surprised it somehow was emptied of that content for anyone.


I think it was because I only heard it in passing, and never really in context. I was young so political talk wasn't very meaningful to me, and I was raised from a very young age to believe racism was evil.

I admit to being surprised when I learned that it was a racially tinged phrase. However the book I read (the aptly titled "The Myth of the Welfare Queen") was quite good and opened my eyes. It's what started me down the path of realizing the insidious meaning behind so many things I just took as benign.
 
2017-08-29 10:29:29 PM  

lexnaturalis: Scorpitron is reduced to a thin red paste: lexnaturalis: Karac: Are we really supposed to believe he worked for conservative media at the height of Reaganism and never once heard someone joke about welfare queens?

I had heard that phrase a lot when I grew up, and I thought I understood what it meant. It wasn't until fairly recently that I read a book that discussed how the phrase had racial connotations. When I heard the phrase I pictured what I knew: poor white people. Clearly the dog whistle wasn't meant for me, but until recently I could have said I didn't hear racial jokes despite people joking about welfare queens.

I hate to defend David Brooks, though. He's the same guy who wrote an absurd column about how his friend was confused by a farking sandwich shop.

The whole point of 'welfare queens' was racial connotations. I'm surprised it somehow was emptied of that content for anyone.

I think it was because I only heard it in passing, and never really in context. I was young so political talk wasn't very meaningful to me, and I was raised from a very young age to believe racism was evil.

I admit to being surprised when I learned that it was a racially tinged phrase. However the book I read (the aptly titled "The Myth of the Welfare Queen") was quite good and opened my eyes. It's what started me down the path of realizing the insidious meaning behind so many things I just took as benign.


Most of those phrases are benign or loaded, depending on the speaker.

Take Thug. 90% of the time you hear it, or more, it means nothing about race.  And the people  who do think it means something racial you shouldn't be associating with anyway.
 
2017-08-29 10:30:07 PM  
Fark the author of tfa with the disingenuous horse head on a stick he rode in on.  It was all well and good to pretend the racism and bigotry weren't there as long as they didn't impact him personally, but now that the people he's in bed with are inviting actual Nazis to join them he's suddenly got a problem?
 
2017-08-29 10:32:31 PM  

MikeyFuccon: Trump has made racism and anti-Semitism respectable again on the right.

Brooks, like most conservatives, only acknowledges a problem when it starts to inconvenience him personally.

He's Jewish.

David is starting to figure out that his movement "friends" were only friends of Jews when those Jews were in the Holy Land shooting Arabs and screaming for "Amalekite" blood as loudly as any American Islamophobe. They hate diaspora Jews as much as they always did.

I dare say "cuck" is the nicest thing David's friends called him behind his back. The difference now, no doubt, is that they're starting to insult him to his face.


It was like when William F. Buckley and The National Review denounced The John Birch Society.

The craziness of The Birchers started become a liability for the magazine, and WASPy William couldn't have that despite past support for the group.
 
2017-08-29 11:01:51 PM  
Between 1984 and 2003 I worked at National Review, The Washington Times, the Wall Street Journal editorial page and The Weekly Standard. Most of my friends were Republicans. In that time, I never heard blatantly racist comments at dinner parties, and there were probably fewer than a dozen times I heard some veiled comment that could have suggested racism. To be honest, I heard more racial condescension in progressive circles than in conservative ones.

I can believe Brooks here. It's wholly possible that he's running in circles where they care more about tax cuts than brown people. Hell, it's wholly possible that he only associates with conservative academics and elites who genuinely believe in conservative principles, or at the very least, your rank and file "establishment" republican. It's possible at least.

I'd love to see more research on the relationship between white identity politics and simple racism. There's clear overlap, but I suspect they're not quite the same thing. Racism is about feeling others are inferior. White identitarianism is about feeling downtrodden and aggrieved yourself.

You are citing polls conducted by polling joints, not actual research. Look in academia, where research is constantly happening.

But three things are clear: First, identity politics on the right is at least as corrosive as identity politics on the left, probably more so. If you reduce the complex array of identities that make up a human being into one crude ethno-political category, you're going to do violence to yourself and everything around you.

And here we see the typical callousness rear its head. The difference is that actual laws and policies target minorities. Banning trans from the military, suppressing voters, pick your example--there is overt action to discriminate based on a person's "crude ethno-political category". The left has identity politics because the right legislates against those identities. The Right's identity politics boil down to "treating minorities as equals scares and angers me".

And this is where the dissolution of the G.O.P. comes in. Conservative universalists are coming to realize their party has become a vehicle for white identity and racial conflict. This faction is prior to and deeper than Trump.

And older than David Brooks. Liberals have been telling you for decades that the GOP has been using racism as a vehicle to get what it wants. Goldwater, Nixon, they told us what the southern strategy was. The difference is that Trump has dragged it out front and center, forcing people like Brooks itno a position where they can no longer deny it.
 
2017-08-29 11:40:11 PM  
You crapheads picked up a radioactive potato that someone else threw away, jammed it up your arse to power your efforts for the last 40 years, and now you're whining that you stool is black and there's blood on the toilet paper?
 
2017-08-30 12:26:33 AM  

Weatherkiss: Kill the GOP faster.


I only own a bolt-action... :(
 
2017-08-30 12:30:41 AM  

lexnaturalis: Scorpitron is reduced to a thin red paste: lexnaturalis: Karac: Are we really supposed to believe he worked for conservative media at the height of Reaganism and never once heard someone joke about welfare queens?

I had heard that phrase a lot when I grew up, and I thought I understood what it meant. It wasn't until fairly recently that I read a book that discussed how the phrase had racial connotations. When I heard the phrase I pictured what I knew: poor white people. Clearly the dog whistle wasn't meant for me, but until recently I could have said I didn't hear racial jokes despite people joking about welfare queens.

I hate to defend David Brooks, though. He's the same guy who wrote an absurd column about how his friend was confused by a farking sandwich shop.

The whole point of 'welfare queens' was racial connotations. I'm surprised it somehow was emptied of that content for anyone.

I think it was because I only heard it in passing, and never really in context. I was young so political talk wasn't very meaningful to me, and I was raised from a very young age to believe racism was evil.

I admit to being surprised when I learned that it was a racially tinged phrase. However the book I read (the aptly titled "The Myth of the Welfare Queen") was quite good and opened my eyes. It's what started me down the path of realizing the insidious meaning behind so many things I just took as benign.


You heard it in passing, when you were young.
Brooks would have encountered it when he was an adult, writing about the people spreading that myth.
 
2017-08-30 12:37:17 AM  

doglover: lexnaturalis: Scorpitron is reduced to a thin red paste: lexnaturalis: Karac: Are we really supposed to believe he worked for conservative media at the height of Reaganism and never once heard someone joke about welfare queens?

I had heard that phrase a lot when I grew up, and I thought I understood what it meant. It wasn't until fairly recently that I read a book that discussed how the phrase had racial connotations. When I heard the phrase I pictured what I knew: poor white people. Clearly the dog whistle wasn't meant for me, but until recently I could have said I didn't hear racial jokes despite people joking about welfare queens.

I hate to defend David Brooks, though. He's the same guy who wrote an absurd column about how his friend was confused by a farking sandwich shop.

The whole point of 'welfare queens' was racial connotations. I'm surprised it somehow was emptied of that content for anyone.

I think it was because I only heard it in passing, and never really in context. I was young so political talk wasn't very meaningful to me, and I was raised from a very young age to believe racism was evil.

I admit to being surprised when I learned that it was a racially tinged phrase. However the book I read (the aptly titled "The Myth of the Welfare Queen") was quite good and opened my eyes. It's what started me down the path of realizing the insidious meaning behind so many things I just took as benign.

Most of those phrases are benign or loaded, depending on the speaker.

Take Thug. 90% of the time you hear it, or more, it means nothing about race.  And the people  who do think it means something racial you shouldn't be associating with anyway.


Dog whistle politics is frustrating, because it's really hard to explain to people. Once I learned about it I became aware of just how brilliant (in an evil way) it is.

Anyway, upon reflection (and after another poster pointed out the age difference) there's virtually no chance David Brooks would have heard that phrase and not known the racist connotation.
 
2017-08-30 12:42:52 AM  
img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2017-08-30 05:52:06 AM  

Cold soup: You crapheads picked up a radioactive potato that someone else threw away, jammed it up your arse to power your efforts for the last 40 years, and now you're whining that you stool is black and there's blood on the toilet paper?


img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2017-08-30 06:45:59 AM  
img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2017-08-30 06:46:53 AM  

lexnaturalis: Karac: Are we really supposed to believe he worked for conservative media at the height of Reaganism and never once heard someone joke about welfare queens?

I had heard that phrase a lot when I grew up, and I thought I understood what it meant. It wasn't until fairly recently that I read a book that discussed how the phrase had racial connotations. When I heard the phrase I pictured what I knew: poor white people. Clearly the dog whistle wasn't meant for me, but until recently I could have said I didn't hear racial jokes despite people joking about welfare queens.

I hate to defend David Brooks, though. He's the same guy who wrote an absurd column about how his friend was confused by a farking sandwich shop.


When I first had a baby eleven years ago my older cousin told me that unless I wanted it repeated at full volume in church I shouldn't say it around the baby. I made some changes, did pretty good. The oldest did call her grandpa an asshole once but (according to her very baptist grandmother) he was being an asshole so it was ok.

Now that I have another newborn, I am concerned her first words will come around 5:10pm on a Friday while I make dinner. That's when I listen to NPR and that's the time of the week I loudly declare "Go fark yourself, David Brooks."
 
2017-08-30 06:51:33 AM  

Scorpitron is reduced to a thin red paste: lexnaturalis: Karac: Are we really supposed to believe he worked for conservative media at the height of Reaganism and never once heard someone joke about welfare queens?

I had heard that phrase a lot when I grew up, and I thought I understood what it meant. It wasn't until fairly recently that I read a book that discussed how the phrase had racial connotations. When I heard the phrase I pictured what I knew: poor white people. Clearly the dog whistle wasn't meant for me, but until recently I could have said I didn't hear racial jokes despite people joking about welfare queens.

I hate to defend David Brooks, though. He's the same guy who wrote an absurd column about how his friend was confused by a farking sandwich shop.

The whole point of 'welfare queens' was racial connotations. I'm surprised it somehow was emptied of that content for anyone.


When I was growing up in Nebraska and Illinois, the only black person I knew was Gordon on Sesame Street. Don't be surprised at how some people couldn't hear dog whistles before. Not everyone ignores them, some just don't know that sound shouldn't be there.
 
2017-08-30 10:50:30 AM  
Hey kids, you know how you like to shout "Projection!" when some one calls you out on your shiat and you can't think of a snappy retort?  Well, this here's a perfect example of what "projection" looks like.  Study it well.
 
2017-08-30 10:54:26 AM  

Weatherkiss: qorkfiend: Weatherkiss: Kill the GOP faster.

No fence? Or did I just miss it in this thread?

Naw. The Fark Humor Police took me down.


Well, you have still managed to turn your name into a verb. So congratulations on the rarity of that.

"Will Jeff Flake get primaried?"
"Dunno. I'm weatherkissed"
 
2017-08-30 12:09:20 PM  

Karac: Between 1984 and 2003 I worked at National Review, The Washington Times, the Wall Street Journal editorial page and The Weekly Standard. Most of my friends were Republicans.

In that time, I never heard blatantly racist comments at dinner parties, and there were probably fewer than a dozen times I heard some veiled comment that could have suggested racism. To be honest, I heard more racial condescension in progressive circles than in conservative ones.

I'm dying to learn what this guys definition of 'racial condescension' is.  Are we really supposed to believe he worked for conservative media at the height of Reaganism and never once heard someone joke about welfare queens?


What he interpreted as "racial condescension" in progressive circles was actually people discussing the problems that faced minorities, and the recognition on the part of the speaker of such "condescension" that they were not part of the same group as those they were trying to help.  And you know, attempting to help sometimes means you have to criticize.

The circles he ran in didn't care about such problems, weren't going to address them, and couldn't give two rats asses about the problems minorities were facing, nor did they even know any.  Also a huge helping "pointing out I'm racially insensitive means you're the real racist".

And the "Welfare Queen" meme so successfully pushed by the republicans in an attempt to end aid?  "Well that was just politics, it doesn't really count.  Distasteful business that politics, we shouldn't have to engage it in to rule, but there it is."

/knew way too many of these kinds of people growing up and was on my wat to become one until I realized how crooked they actually were.
 
2017-08-30 05:16:57 PM  

Karac: In that time, I never heard blatantly racist comments at dinner parties, and there were probably fewer than a dozen times I heard some veiled comment that could have suggested racism. To be honest, I heard more racial condescension in progressive circles than in conservative ones.

I'm dying to learn what this guys definition of 'racial condescension' is.  Are we really supposed to believe he worked for conservative media at the height of Reaganism and never once heard someone joke about welfare queens?


Oh, I'm sure he'll say that "welfare queens" wasn't a racial thing and it could mean people of any race on welfare. . .even though we all know it's bullshiat.  He'll cling to the dog-whistle, since before Trump, Republicans cloaked their racism adequately enough to give them some measure of deniability.
 
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