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(Politico)   Democrats can't agree how bad racism is   ( politico.com) divider line
    More: Facepalm, White supremacy, Democratic Party, Barack Obama, Democrats, President of the United States, Bill Clinton, House Democrats, Confederate monuments  
•       •       •

2384 clicks; posted to Politics » on 29 Aug 2017 at 11:14 AM (15 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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vpb [TotalFark]
2017-08-29 09:34:22 AM  
No, they can't agree on whether it is a winning issue politically.
 
2017-08-29 09:47:47 AM  
If you have to placate racists to win elections, I would rather lose.
 
2017-08-29 09:54:06 AM  

vpb: No, they can't agree on whether it is a winning issue politically.


If someone is holding off on being vocally against racist because it may not be politically advantageous then fark them.
 
2017-08-29 09:58:23 AM  

thismomentinblackhistory: If you have to placate racists to win elections, I would rather lose.


I think there is a good debate about whether some of these monuments should come down. Where do we draw the line? Seriously though, Washington and Jefferson? What about statues to fallen solders of the war? Do we take down every single statue of Lee? I don't know.

Look, I don't like these sh*tty Jim Crow-era confederate monuments because of what they represented at the time, and I don't like Nazis using them as a rallying cry. But these kinds of things are distractions that play into the GOP's hands, and there's just a lot of stupid out there. The country is being increasingly polarized over guns and religion and the rural/urban divide.

Having said that, I really don't think the Democratic party is divided over this issue. They have always lacked a coherent focus. That's what it means to be a Democrat - debating fine points and nuance, and not TAKE AWAY ALL TAXES, YOU ARE BABY KILLERS, and WELFARE IS SLAVERY.
 
2017-08-29 10:00:44 AM  
s2.quickmeme.comView Full Size
 
2017-08-29 10:03:28 AM  
Republicans have unanimously decided it isn't
 
2017-08-29 10:05:10 AM  
From the article it looks more like they're trying to avoid getting mired in debates about statues, and instead focusing on confronting domestic terrorist groups like the KKK.  Bringing down confederate statues is a good thing but still symbolic in the end and it also polls bad (which is an awful indictment of the US but still).  Domestic terror groups like neo-Nazis or the KKK are actual threats to people's lives, especially people of color.  This seems like a no-brainer.
 
2017-08-29 10:23:48 AM  

vpb: No, they can't agree on whether it is a winning issue politically.


Quite honestly, I'm not sure why that's even a question. While it is the focus for some right now, it's not the only issue any Democratic politician is pursuing. There are so many other things going on, so many things that have gone on over the last eight months, that even something that would normally be a focal point for debate is only one among many. The way things are going, there's really no way to know what kind of next-level bizarro world bullshiat will be the primary topic come the 2018 elections.

Is it a winning issue politically? Perhaps in some cases. Can it be included with a much greater list of significant problems? Certainly and I don't think it will be detrimental to do so. Dealing with endemic, entrenched racism doesn't have to be the only topic, but it should definitely be part of the conversation.
 
2017-08-29 11:16:44 AM  
So vote Republican?
No.

Giant Meteor 2020.
 
2017-08-29 11:20:10 AM  
Centrist Democrats can't agree how bad racism is

FTFY

Centrists/Thirdways are morons.
 
2017-08-29 11:21:01 AM  
Why did it go up?
What does it symbolize?

If the answers are
Because white people were mad.
And
White supremacy.

It should come down.
 
2017-08-29 11:21:32 AM  

bdub77: thismomentinblackhistory: If you have to placate racists to win elections, I would rather lose.

I think there is a good debate about whether some of these monuments should come down. Where do we draw the line? Seriously though, Washington and Jefferson? What about statues to fallen solders of the war? Do we take down every single statue of Lee? I don't know.

Look, I don't like these sh*tty Jim Crow-era confederate monuments because of what they represented at the time, and I don't like Nazis using them as a rallying cry. But these kinds of things are distractions that play into the GOP's hands, and there's just a lot of stupid out there. The country is being increasingly polarized over guns and religion and the rural/urban divide.

Having said that, I really don't think the Democratic party is divided over this issue. They have always lacked a coherent focus. That's what it means to be a Democrat - debating fine points and nuance, and not TAKE AWAY ALL TAXES, YOU ARE BABY KILLERS, and WELFARE IS SLAVERY.


Personally, I would say any statues to the confederacy on public property should come down, but that's my opinion and I'm not from the South.

I would say it's a pretty safe compromise until we reach a national consensus to say that if a community wants a statue in it's jurisdiction to come down, it should come down.  Having a national group of protesters come in to a locality to try to pressure them in to keeping a monument to something those people no longer identify with is abhorrent and hypocritical of the nationalist protesters in the first place.  Not that they've ever cared about being hypocrites.
 
2017-08-29 11:21:49 AM  

thismomentinblackhistory: If you have to placate racists to win elections, I would rather lose.


IOW "Trump 2020!"
 
2017-08-29 11:21:59 AM  
FTA: "...particularly one focused on Confederate statues that risks dividing the electorate."

The Dems are being divisive? Because so many Democrats are big supporters of honoring the Confederacy? Your concern is noted, Politico.
 
2017-08-29 11:22:40 AM  

Epoch_Zero: Centrist Democrats can't agree how bad racism is

FTFY

Centrists/Thirdways are morons.


Like Obama?
 
2017-08-29 11:24:06 AM  
Racism = really bad.  Any Dems here disagree?
 
2017-08-29 11:24:53 AM  
Then there's former Trump chief strategist Steve Bannon, who says his opponents lose any time they focus on racial politics.

ok, thanks for the input on what Dems should focus on , Steverino!

The question of how to address Confederate monuments in the Capitol appeared to initially split the two top congressional Democrats, although aides described the divergence as minimal. House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi of California made a full-throated call for removing them, while Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer of New York downplayed the issue and accused Trump and Bannon of "trying to divert attention away from" their own stances on white supremacist groups.

what a bullshiat manufactured story
 
2017-08-29 11:25:02 AM  
img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2017-08-29 11:26:07 AM  

Nied: From the article it looks more like they're trying to avoid getting mired in debates about statues, and instead focusing on confronting domestic terrorist groups like the KKK.  Bringing down confederate statues is a good thing but still symbolic in the end and it also polls bad (which is an awful indictment of the US but still).  Domestic terror groups like neo-Nazis or the KKK are actual threats to people's lives, especially people of color.  This seems like a no-brainer.


Reading the article?

Gross.
 
2017-08-29 11:26:11 AM  
 
2017-08-29 11:26:42 AM  

Epic Fap Session: Epoch_Zero: Centrist Democrats can't agree how bad racism is

FTFY

Centrists/Thirdways are morons.

Like Obama?


In a lot of ways, yes. His placation of republicans on numerous issues was unforgivable.

However, the bar is now set at "not a Nazi", so...
 
2017-08-29 11:27:22 AM  
Farking Claire McCaskill is waffling on this shiat too.

It's this simple.

You want to keep the memory of the Civil War alive?

Put up statues of the winning side.
 
2017-08-29 11:28:35 AM  
i.imgur.comView Full Size
 
2017-08-29 11:29:09 AM  

Micro-aggressive Trigger Warning: If the Dark Lord of the Sith says he hopes Dems do something, the best answer isn't to do that thing.

"The Democrats," he said, "the longer they talk about identity politics, I got 'em. I want them to talk about racism every day. If the left is focused on race and identity, and we go with economic nationalism, we can crush the Democrats."


Democrats should not be taking advice from Steve Bannon. That's just dumb.
 
2017-08-29 11:29:25 AM  
I guess all F.D.R. statues will have to be removed as well since he ordered hundreds-of-thousands of Americans to be interred.
 
2017-08-29 11:29:47 AM  

Micro-aggressive Trigger Warning: If the Dark Lord of the Sith says he hopes Dems do something, the best answer isn't to do that thing.

"The Democrats," he said, "the longer they talk about identity politics, I got 'em. I want them to talk about racism every day. If the left is focused on race and identity, and we go with economic nationalism, we can crush the Democrats."


The "Dark Lord of the Sith" is out of a job after escorting Trump's popularity into the gutter.  The fact that he's trying to play mind games while not having much of a mind isn't lost on me...
 
2017-08-29 11:30:02 AM  

FortyHams: Micro-aggressive Trigger Warning: If the Dark Lord of the Sith says he hopes Dems do something, the best answer isn't to do that thing.

"The Democrats," he said, "the longer they talk about identity politics, I got 'em. I want them to talk about racism every day. If the left is focused on race and identity, and we go with economic nationalism, we can crush the Democrats."

Democrats should not be taking advice from Steve Bannon. That's just dumb.


So, of course that's exactly what they'll do. Can't wait to see him on the Booker 2020 team.
 
2017-08-29 11:31:20 AM  

Epoch_Zero: Centrist Democrats can't agree how bad racism is

FTFY

Centrists/Thirdways are morons.


i.imgur.comView Full Size
 
2017-08-29 11:31:39 AM  
Republicans agree on how great racism is
 
2017-08-29 11:32:05 AM  
As opposed to Republicans, who can't agree that racism is bad.
 
2017-08-29 11:32:21 AM  
Steve Bannon laughs and laughs and laughs. And prepares to self fellate.
 
2017-08-29 11:32:33 AM  

EyeballKid: FortyHams: Micro-aggressive Trigger Warning: If the Dark Lord of the Sith says he hopes Dems do something, the best answer isn't to do that thing.

"The Democrats," he said, "the longer they talk about identity politics, I got 'em. I want them to talk about racism every day. If the left is focused on race and identity, and we go with economic nationalism, we can crush the Democrats."

Democrats should not be taking advice from Steve Bannon. That's just dumb.

So, of course that's exactly what they'll do. Can't wait to see him on the Booker 2020 team.


What the fark are you even talking about?
 
2017-08-29 11:32:56 AM  

sirrerun: So vote Republican?
No.

Giant Meteor 2020.


Does this mean you'll donate to my Super PAC?
 
2017-08-29 11:33:13 AM  
We should put up a statue of the British and Canadians on the White House lawn.  After all, they burned down the old one and we wouldn't want to forget history.
 
2017-08-29 11:33:42 AM  

Soup4Bonnie: Then there's former Trump chief strategist Steve Bannon, who says his opponents lose any time they focus on racial politics.

ok, thanks for the input on what Dems should focus on , Steverino!

The question of how to address Confederate monuments in the Capitol appeared to initially split the two top congressional Democrats, although aides described the divergence as minimal. House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi of California made a full-throated call for removing them, while Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer of New York downplayed the issue and accused Trump and Bannon of "trying to divert attention away from" their own stances on white supremacist groups.

what a bullshiat manufactured story


"Hey, let's run a story about how divided Democrats are!"
"But they're not, really-"
"Doesnt matter. You do the article, I'll provide the division."
 
2017-08-29 11:33:45 AM  
How would we ever learn about history if the statues that glorified the oppression black people came down?

Netflix?
 
2017-08-29 11:34:19 AM  
Not at all.

Focus on Progressive economic issues.

Give people a reason to vote FOR you. Focusing on "not voting for the other guy" has already failed. Repeatedly.
 
2017-08-29 11:34:31 AM  
I love that "Identity Politics" is now a code word for "coddling white racists".

I'll use it in a sentence: "When Trump said that some white racists are good people, and pardoned Joe Arpaio to appeal to those white racists, he was engaging in Identity Politics, or politics designed to appeal to one specific ethnic group."
 
2017-08-29 11:35:20 AM  

Soup4Bonnie: How would we ever learn about history if the statues that glorified the oppression black people came down?

Netflix?


I don't know about you but my entire education was just teachers dragging me out to statues of things. One class we'd all bus out to a statue of algebra, then we'd bus over to a statue of Physical Education.
 
2017-08-29 11:36:50 AM  

BeotchPudding: I guess all F.D.R. statues will have to be removed as well since he ordered hundreds-of-thousands of Americans to be interred.


Is this a policy you're going to publicly advocate for? Or are you just trying to construct a strawman?
 
2017-08-29 11:36:57 AM  

Epoch_Zero: Centrist Democrats can't agree how bad racism is

FTFY

Centrists/Thirdways Gullible leftists are morons.


FTFYFTFY

Literally no democrats are arguing racism isn't bad, the dispute is over how best to confront it.
 
2017-08-29 11:37:07 AM  

FortyHams: EyeballKid: FortyHams: Micro-aggressive Trigger Warning: If the Dark Lord of the Sith says he hopes Dems do something, the best answer isn't to do that thing.

"The Democrats," he said, "the longer they talk about identity politics, I got 'em. I want them to talk about racism every day. If the left is focused on race and identity, and we go with economic nationalism, we can crush the Democrats."

Democrats should not be taking advice from Steve Bannon. That's just dumb.

So, of course that's exactly what they'll do. Can't wait to see him on the Booker 2020 team.

What the fark are you even talking about?


The DNC's record of marksmanship for toe-shooting is spectacular. If they can out-Martha Coakley Martha Coakley, I'm certain they will.

The party would rather lose than fight for people not bribing them.
 
2017-08-29 11:37:58 AM  

giantmeteor: sirrerun: So vote Republican?
No.

Giant Meteor 2020.

Does this mean you'll donate to my Super PAC?


Dude,  i had wrote you in during the 2016 election and you hadn't even properly registered to be counted.   Didn't even attempt to crash into the debates.

You're simply not inspiring enough
 
2017-08-29 11:37:58 AM  

Epic Fap Session: Epoch_Zero: Centrist Democrats can't agree how bad racism is

FTFY

Centrists/Thirdways are morons.

Like Obama?


Obama was a fourth-way Democrat, if you'll pardon the liberty, somewhere between a true third-way centrist like the Clintons, but also not as far left as the ideology that spawned the third-way Democrats in the first place. I have a feeling he personally leans further to the left than his policies might have indicated, but he was an intelligent, pragmatic politician who had a good idea of both his political limitations and the limitations of his party during his time in office.

With the exception of a brief period at the beginning of his first term, he faced unwavering opposition from the Republican-controlled legislative branch, yet still managed to get more done that the current resident of the White House. Trump and Congress should be churning out every legislative wet dream they've had over the last eight years, yet they're seemingly unable to accomplish anything of real significance.
 
2017-08-29 11:38:37 AM  
Two birds, one stone.

img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2017-08-29 11:39:09 AM  

EyeballKid: FortyHams: EyeballKid: FortyHams: Micro-aggressive Trigger Warning: If the Dark Lord of the Sith says he hopes Dems do something, the best answer isn't to do that thing.

"The Democrats," he said, "the longer they talk about identity politics, I got 'em. I want them to talk about racism every day. If the left is focused on race and identity, and we go with economic nationalism, we can crush the Democrats."

Democrats should not be taking advice from Steve Bannon. That's just dumb.

So, of course that's exactly what they'll do. Can't wait to see him on the Booker 2020 team.

What the fark are you even talking about?

The DNC's record of marksmanship for toe-shooting is spectacular. If they can out-Martha Coakley Martha Coakley, I'm certain they will.

The party would rather lose than fight for people not bribing them.


Hooo Boy, sorry I asked.
 
2017-08-29 11:41:24 AM  
There's all sorts of statues to all sorts of unsavory characters. Personally I'm indifferent on the confederate statue thing. Do they endorse traitors who fought in the name of bondage, racism and oppression? Yes. Does that mean they should come down? I dunno.
We also have statues to Christopher Columbus who started the largest genocide in human history. There are statues to our soldiers who fought in Vietnam, a campaign that brutalized the civilian population and almost wiped out an entire generation of young men in that country.
In Britain there are statues commemorating the conquerors of India and South Africa.
Brutality and violence have been part of the human experience since the beginning. So too have monuments glorifying it. I think the hullabaloo about these confederate statues is a little contrived.
Statues are symbols. The real problem is the violence that still pervades the human experience to this day. Taking down a statue doesn't comfort the afflicted or free the oppressed.
It's easier to argue about statues than ask the hard questions and put in work towards a more peaceful society.
 
2017-08-29 11:42:14 AM  
img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2017-08-29 11:43:25 AM  
Because some of them are former or current klan members.
 
2017-08-29 11:43:38 AM  

giantmeteor: There's all sorts of statues to all sorts of unsavory characters. Personally I'm indifferent on the confederate statue thing. Do they endorse traitors who fought in the name of bondage, racism and oppression? Yes. Does that mean they should come down? I dunno.
We also have statues to Christopher Columbus who started the largest genocide in human history. There are statues to our soldiers who fought in Vietnam, a campaign that brutalized the civilian population and almost wiped out an entire generation of young men in that country.
In Britain there are statues commemorating the conquerors of India and South Africa.
Brutality and violence have been part of the human experience since the beginning. So too have monuments glorifying it. I think the hullabaloo about these confederate statues is a little contrived.
Statues are symbols. The real problem is the violence that still pervades the human experience to this day. Taking down a statue doesn't comfort the afflicted or free the oppressed.
It's easier to argue about statues than ask the hard questions and put in work towards a more peaceful society.


I'm perfectly fine with statues to proponents of bondage as long as it's consensual.
 
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