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(Ars Technica)   Verizon to start throttling all smartphone videos to 480p or 720p   ( arstechnica.com) divider line
    More: Asinine, Display resolution, High-definition television, Verizon, Digital television, 1080p, Mobile phone, unlimited data, video  
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2488 clicks; posted to Business » on 22 Aug 2017 at 10:20 AM (16 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2017-08-22 09:43:12 AM  
They couldn't figure out forced vertical framing, it seems.
 
2017-08-22 09:43:31 AM  
Bait and switch isn't a crime when big business does it.
 
2017-08-22 10:10:08 AM  

vudukungfu: Bait and switch isn't a crime when big business does it.


Not when they mean it as masturbating and switching hands to high five each other over how hard they are screwing the customers.
 
2017-08-22 10:11:12 AM  
F*cking criminals. The lot of them.
 
2017-08-22 10:38:09 AM  
But totally don't need net neutrality rules, right guys? I mean, when the NFL season rolls around, and since that's a Verizon service, it'll be OK when that plays at 1080P because reasons.

This is exactly the kind of shiat we worried about and that farktard at the FCC who is bought and paid by the telecoms us screwing the country over royally.
 
2017-08-22 10:41:01 AM  
Demand exceeds capacity so that's ok. But if they start favouring their own content then they should be burned to the ground.
 
2017-08-22 10:41:33 AM  

jayphat: But totally don't need net neutrality rules, right guys? I mean, when the NFL season rolls around, and since that's a Verizon service, it'll be OK when that plays at 1080P because reasons.

This is exactly the kind of shiat we worried about and that farktard at the FCC who is bought and paid by the telecoms us screwing the country over royally.


Can you really tell the difference between 1080P and 720P on a cell phone screen?
 
2017-08-22 10:43:45 AM  
I'm assuming that since I use a VPN, they can't see what kind of data I'm accessing.  It should look like a data connection using SSL to a server in the Seychelles.

But I don't doubt that they'll try to throttle that too.
 
2017-08-22 10:45:12 AM  
mcreadyblue:

Can you really tell the difference between 1080P and 720P on a cell phone screen?

I can if I'm outputting video using a USB-C-HDMI cable connected to a large TV.
 
2017-08-22 10:46:52 AM  
They're just p-ing all over their customers.
 
2017-08-22 10:48:49 AM  
It would have been nice if that was a user option that I could turn on when I want to.  There are some long-format YouTube vids that I like more as a podcast than for the video itself, so I'd choose to turn it down to the lowest setting if I had that choice to limit the amount of bandwidth it chews up.
 
2017-08-22 10:55:19 AM  

mcreadyblue: jayphat: But totally don't need net neutrality rules, right guys? I mean, when the NFL season rolls around, and since that's a Verizon service, it'll be OK when that plays at 1080P because reasons.

This is exactly the kind of shiat we worried about and that farktard at the FCC who is bought and paid by the telecoms us screwing the country over royally.

Can you really tell the difference between 1080P and 720P on a cell phone screen?


On certain YouTube videos I've clearly been able to tell the difference. But this begs the bigger question of how long until 720 is too much and we need to kick down to 460? What exactly are they doing with all the money being collected from customer accounts to build out more Network and infrastructure to handle more capacity? Isn't that a condition of being able to buy spectrum at auction?

No, of course not. They got farking dividends to pay out, fark the customer.
 
2017-08-22 10:57:18 AM  
Because a 5-inch screen is where HD really shines.
 
2017-08-22 10:57:36 AM  

mcreadyblue: jayphat: But totally don't need net neutrality rules, right guys? I mean, when the NFL season rolls around, and since that's a Verizon service, it'll be OK when that plays at 1080P because reasons.

This is exactly the kind of shiat we worried about and that farktard at the FCC who is bought and paid by the telecoms us screwing the country over royally.

Can you really tell the difference between 1080P and 720P on a cell phone screen?


On a 4K screen, you probably could.
 
2017-08-22 10:58:18 AM  

jayphat: mcreadyblue: jayphat: But totally don't need net neutrality rules, right guys? I mean, when the NFL season rolls around, and since that's a Verizon service, it'll be OK when that plays at 1080P because reasons.

This is exactly the kind of shiat we worried about and that farktard at the FCC who is bought and paid by the telecoms us screwing the country over royally.

Can you really tell the difference between 1080P and 720P on a cell phone screen?

On certain YouTube videos I've clearly been able to tell the difference. But this begs the bigger question of how long until 720 is too much and we need to kick down to 460? What exactly are they doing with all the money being collected from customer accounts to build out more Network and infrastructure to handle more capacity? Isn't that a condition of being able to buy spectrum at auction?

No, of course not. They got farking dividends to pay out, fark the customer.


The FCC argument is that you can always switch cell providers.
 
2017-08-22 10:59:44 AM  

Russ1642: Demand exceeds capacity so that's ok. But if they start favouring their own content then they should be burned to the ground.


If demand constantly exceeds capacity, they should either build up the ability to cope with demand or expect people to leave for a competitor who can provide said demand. With less and less competitors in the market, how long until we see collusion by the major players?
 
2017-08-22 11:05:20 AM  

Nadie_AZ: Russ1642: Demand exceeds capacity so that's ok. But if they start favouring their own content then they should be burned to the ground.

If demand constantly exceeds capacity, they should either build up the ability to cope with demand or expect people to leave for a competitor who can provide said demand. With less and less competitors in the market, how long until we see collusion by the major players?


Who says we aren't already seeing that?
 
2017-08-22 11:06:41 AM  
Not news: Verizon sucks
 
2017-08-22 11:07:32 AM  

jaytkay: Because a 5-inch screen is where HD really shines.


A 5 inch screen that's 10 inches from your face needs HD more than your 50" TV that's sitting 10 or 15 feet across the room.
 
2017-08-22 11:09:41 AM  
honestly....what mobile provider isn't a POS. Verizon can because it covers the far out areas. I'd switch but even in my area near big cities T-Mobile craps out when i go more than a mile out of the city
 
2017-08-22 11:11:33 AM  

facepalm.jpg: jaytkay: Because a 5-inch screen is where HD really shines.

A 5 inch screen that's 10 inches from your face needs HD more than your 50" TV that's sitting 10 or 15 feet across the room.


5" porn?
 
2017-08-22 11:22:52 AM  

mcreadyblue: facepalm.jpg: jaytkay: Because a 5-inch screen is where HD really shines.

A 5 inch screen that's 10 inches from your face needs HD more than your 50" TV that's sitting 10 or 15 feet across the room.

5" porn?


That's generous.
 
2017-08-22 11:24:41 AM  

mcreadyblue: jayphat: But totally don't need net neutrality rules, right guys? I mean, when the NFL season rolls around, and since that's a Verizon service, it'll be OK when that plays at 1080P because reasons.

This is exactly the kind of shiat we worried about and that farktard at the FCC who is bought and paid by the telecoms us screwing the country over royally.

Can you really tell the difference between 1080P and 720P on a cell phone screen?


Consider two lines of pixels- one is 1080 pixels long, and the other is 720 pixels long.

Suppose the 1080 pixel line is 5 inches long. This gives a resolution of 216 pixels per inch (PPI).

If you maintain the same pixel density (PPI) then the 720 pixel line will only be 3.34 inches long, or a 33% reduction in size.

If you maintain the same size, then the 720 pixel line will only have 144 PPI, or a 33% reduction in resolution.

Subjective judgement aside, when a telco throttles you from 1080P video down to 720P video you are in a very real sense only getting 2/3rds of what you paid for. If your jug of milk stayed the same price but was suddenly only 2/3rds of a gallon because all of the dairies decided to collude then we'd have people screaming bloody murder from coast to coast and instant anti-trust investigations at every level of government.

If you do want to talk about subjective judgement, the people who make printers and print-related products seem to have agreed that 300 dots per inch (DPI, which is analogous for our PPI) is the standard for printed sheets. High quality printers such as photo printers can go up to 720 DPI or higher. That entire industry seems to think that you can tell the difference between resolutions below 300DPI.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2017-08-22 11:28:47 AM  
Most data plans will get 720p video on smartphones

I used to watch 480i on a 20 inch CRT. 720p on a phone doesn't offend me.
 
2017-08-22 11:33:45 AM  

mcreadyblue: facepalm.jpg: jaytkay: Because a 5-inch screen is where HD really shines.

A 5 inch screen that's 10 inches from your face needs HD more than your 50" TV that's sitting 10 or 15 feet across the room.

5" porn?


It's not the size that matters, it's how you use it. The relevant concept is apparent size, not actual size. A 5" screen held 10" from your face appears larger than a 50" screen that's 10 feet away, and if you have the resolution to back it up then the picture will look better too.

If you have a 5" screen held 10" from your face then the screen subtends an arc of 28 degrees across your field of vision.

If you have a 50" screen held 10 feet (120") from your face then the screen subtends an arc of 24 degrees across your field of vision. If your screen is at 15 feet (180") from your face then the screen subtends an arc of just 16 degrees across your field of vision.
 
2017-08-22 11:51:26 AM  

facepalm.jpg: jaytkay: Because a 5-inch screen is where HD really shines.

A 5 inch screen that's 10 inches from your face needs HD more than your 50" TV that's sitting 10 or 15 feet across the room.


"Needs"

Because if you can't watch Lego Batman in 1080p in the car, life is not worth living. It's like the Holocaust.
 
2017-08-22 12:01:06 PM  
For those of us who have to get online while traveling, we use hotspots to set up wifi to our laptops. Verizon began throttling that, too. Suddenly work I could do via hotspot is now more difficult.
 
2017-08-22 12:11:06 PM  

facepalm.jpg: mcreadyblue: jayphat: 

Subjective judgement aside, when a telco throttles you from 1080P video down to 720P video you are in a very real sense only getting 2/3rds of what you paid for. If your jug of milk stayed the same price but was suddenly only 2/3rds of a gallon because all of the dairies decided to collude then we'd have people screaming bloody murder from coast to coast and instant anti-trust investigations at every level of government.


Milk tends to be one of those things that most people generally agree is a necessity. HD video on your smartphone isnt a necessity in ANY circumstance.

Besides, you're dealing with people today who'd rather biatch on the internet than actually DO something about whatever is making them unhappy. So I wouldnt expect any outrage even if they started farking with milk.
 
2017-08-22 12:12:58 PM  

jayphat: But totally don't need net neutrality rules, right guys? I mean, when the NFL season rolls around, and since that's a Verizon service, it'll be OK when that plays at 1080P because reasons.

This is exactly the kind of shiat we worried about and that farktard at the FCC who is bought and paid by the telecoms us screwing the country over royally.


I can see you don't understand net neutrality...great.
 
2017-08-22 12:13:59 PM  

ZAZ: Most data plans will get 720p video on smartphones

I used to watch 480i on a 20 inch CRT. 720p on a phone doesn't offend me.


Hey I remember when VGA was a big deal so by that logic we should be happy with 16bit color, color at all really, heck why don't we just try and interpret ASCII characters on a Burroughs Panaplex display like a bunch of cavemen....
 
2017-08-22 12:22:26 PM  

jaytkay: facepalm.jpg: jaytkay: Because a 5-inch screen is where HD really shines.

A 5 inch screen that's 10 inches from your face needs HD more than your 50" TV that's sitting 10 or 15 feet across the room.

"Needs"

Because if you can't watch Lego Batman in 1080p in the car, life is not worth living. It's like the Holocaust.


Or, instead of being snarky and obtuse, you could have admitted that you were wrong and that you learned something new today. But not you, you're the one that'll stick to your guns. If anyone suggests that you are wrong then clearly modern life is worse than the holocaust.
 
2017-08-22 12:22:36 PM  

jaytkay: facepalm.jpg: jaytkay: Because a 5-inch screen is where HD really shines.

A 5 inch screen that's 10 inches from your face needs HD more than your 50" TV that's sitting 10 or 15 feet across the room.

"Needs"

Because if you can't watch Lego Batman in 1080p in the car, life is not worth living. It's like the Holocaust.


If you want to get picky all you "need" is food, water, and sleep, if you want to get existential you don't need those; "breathing is an addiction".

However:
A. The customer is getting screwed by a monopoly

B. Standards evolve over time; Adam Smith had his example of the linen shirt, (to paraphrase) you wouldn't hire a laborer who didn't own a shirt would you, well the ancient Greeks thought nothing of it. Now having a phone, transport, literacy, and more than a fortnightly bath are standard. When it comes to tech standards advance more rapidly need in this sense is determined by the norm and since you're posting on FARK you buy into this as well, even if you may be on the tail end of the distribution.
 
2017-08-22 12:26:13 PM  

eagles95: honestly....what mobile provider isn't a POS. Verizon can because it covers the far out areas. I'd switch but even in my area near big cities T-Mobile craps out when i go more than a mile out of the city


When was the last time you tried?  I've been on TMO for 3 years and the coverage area and speeds have been increasing.
 
2017-08-22 12:28:06 PM  
img.fark.netView Full Size

Watching cat videos at 4k resolution on a 3 inch screen is a basic human right!

BRB, I'm contacting someone at the Hague to get this on the docket for the International Criminal Court
 
2017-08-22 12:34:37 PM  

oa330_man: mcreadyblue:

Can you really tell the difference between 1080P and 720P on a cell phone screen?

I can if I'm outputting video using a USB-C-HDMI cable connected to a large TV.


If you have a large TV, don't you then have WiFi from your home internet service? That won't be capped.
 
2017-08-22 12:38:18 PM  

Dick Gozinya: Milk tends to be one of those things that most people generally agree is a necessity. HD video on your smartphone isnt a necessity in ANY circumstance.

Besides, you're dealing with people today who'd rather biatch on the internet than actually DO something about whatever is making them unhappy. So I wouldnt expect any outrage even if they started farking with milk.


First, I would bet a thousand dollars that if you gave people the choice of going without the internet versus going without milk that there are more people out there who would say that you need the internet more than you need milk. The UN has declared the internet a basic human right. There are a lot of people out there who only get internet via their phone, and these people are the most likely to be vulnerable and in need of strong consumer protections.

The fact that we're talking about HD video is irrelevant, because this continues to set the precedent that companies can dictate how you use their services. The post office has never dictated to you how you are and are not allowed to use their service unless it's for safety or you're a bulk mailer. The phone company never tried to dictate to you how much you were allowed to use their service. By any measure the internet is far more valuable a resource today than our postal system or our phone system is, and yet it lacks the basic laws and regulations that would protect it in the same class as these other systems.

Second, I don't think we need to stick to necessities to make the point. If all soda bottles were suddenly 2/3rds their former size because all soda manufacturers colluded to provide a crappy product while charging the same price then that's anti-competitive collusion and we have laws against that. Even if we didn't have those laws then it's still a few large corporations colluding to give us the shaft, and that should be met with anger and dismay rather than shaming the people who simply expect the company to honor the original deal.

Remember, this is a bait-and-switch. Verizon sold this service on the basis of unlimited 1080P/720P streaming, and now they're unilaterally switching everyone to 720P/480P streaming.
 
2017-08-22 12:39:04 PM  
I can't believe people defend monopolies who take their money and give them less for it.
 
2017-08-22 12:49:23 PM  

pdieten: oa330_man: mcreadyblue:

Can you really tell the difference between 1080P and 720P on a cell phone screen?

I can if I'm outputting video using a USB-C-HDMI cable connected to a large TV.

If you have a large TV, don't you then have WiFi from your home internet service? That won't be capped.


I live out in the sticks.  Options are CenturyLink DSL or Verizon 4G LTE.  I have DSL and use it for day to day stuff but it tops out at 1.5 MB since I'm just slightly out of reach of a faster connection speed.  I have a much faster data connection with 4G LTE than I do with DSL so I use it for streaming Netflix/Amazon.
 
2017-08-22 12:52:00 PM  

Nadie_AZ: I can't believe people defend monopolies who take their money and give them less for it.


Some people seem to think that you don't deserve to get what you paid for if it wasn't a necessity.
 
2017-08-22 12:54:47 PM  

mrsleep: jayphat: But totally don't need net neutrality rules, right guys? I mean, when the NFL season rolls around, and since that's a Verizon service, it'll be OK when that plays at 1080P because reasons.

This is exactly the kind of shiat we worried about and that farktard at the FCC who is bought and paid by the telecoms us screwing the country over royally.

I can see you don't understand net neutrality...great.


FTA:

"Anything identified as a video will not be given more than 10Mbps worth of bandwidth."

From Wikipedia:

"Net neutrality is the principle that Internet service providers and governments regulating the Internet must treat all data on the Internet the same, not discriminating or charging differentially by user, content, website, platform, application, type of attached equipment, or mode of communication. "

?
 
2017-08-22 01:08:27 PM  
jayphat
But totally don't need net neutrality rules, right guys? I mean, when the NFL season rolls around, and since that's a Verizon service, it'll be OK when that plays at 1080P because reasons.

This is exactly the kind of shiat we worried about and that farktard at the FCC who is bought and paid by the telecoms us screwing the country over royally.


Then why can't you make a billion dollar company, so you have enough pull to buy a government entity. Get boot strappy, this is America.
 
2017-08-22 01:09:36 PM  

CastIronStove: mrsleep: jayphat: But totally don't need net neutrality rules, right guys? I mean, when the NFL season rolls around, and since that's a Verizon service, it'll be OK when that plays at 1080P because reasons.

This is exactly the kind of shiat we worried about and that farktard at the FCC who is bought and paid by the telecoms us screwing the country over royally.

I can see you don't understand net neutrality...great.

FTA:

"Anything identified as a video will not be given more than 10Mbps worth of bandwidth."

From Wikipedia:

"Net neutrality is the principle that Internet service providers and governments regulating the Internet must treat all data on the Internet the same, not discriminating or charging differentially by user, content, website, platform, application, type of attached equipment, or mode of communication. "

?


They say they have FCC permission to control network congestion, which is true.  That's why carriers originally started throttling people who use a ton of data.  But this is clearly impermissible content-based discrimination.

It seems like they would rather have us download video (at full available speed) instead of streaming.  If only more legitimate content providers gave the option to download before viewing.
 
2017-08-22 01:23:16 PM  

oa330_man: mcreadyblue:

Can you really tell the difference between 1080P and 720P on a cell phone screen?

I can if I'm outputting video using a USB-C-HDMI cable connected to a large TV.


Is that really what this technology is designed for?  I know it can be done, but wouldn't a dedicated internet connection work better?
 
2017-08-22 01:28:58 PM  

jaytkay: facepalm.jpg: jaytkay: Because a 5-inch screen is where HD really shines.

A 5 inch screen that's 10 inches from your face needs HD more than your 50" TV that's sitting 10 or 15 feet across the room.

"Needs"

Because if you can't watch Lego Batman in 1080p in the car, life is not worth living. It's like the Holocaust.


Business meetings, presentations, and online learning.  But as you don't personally see its necessary I guess no one needs it then.  After all only you can see all the potential use cases.  Every.  Single. One.

/remind me to talk to you the next time we build a product ... if you don't see a use for it then we will stop saving everyone tons of time and money
//you are like a seer or something ... just amazing
 
2017-08-22 01:32:35 PM  

mrsleep: jayphat: But totally don't need net neutrality rules, right guys? I mean, when the NFL season rolls around, and since that's a Verizon service, it'll be OK when that plays at 1080P because reasons.

This is exactly the kind of shiat we worried about and that farktard at the FCC who is bought and paid by the telecoms us screwing the country over royally.

I can see you don't understand net neutrality...great.


The idea that carriers do not treat data passing through their Network differently or with any sort of preference. How much money do you want to throw down right now that says Verizon's own video service (NFL for example) will be exempt from this?
 
2017-08-22 01:34:02 PM  

gingerjet: Business meetings, presentations, and online learning.


PowerPoint slides just aren't readable below 1080p!
 
2017-08-22 01:39:21 PM  
That will work GREAT at 1x RTT. Why, yes we DO have "coverage" in your area.
 
2017-08-22 01:47:47 PM  
Ting.

You're welcome.
 
2017-08-22 01:55:23 PM  

ZAZ: Most data plans will get 720p video on smartphones

I used to watch 480i on a 20 inch CRT. 720p on a phone doesn't offend me.


scholarlykitchen.sspnet.orgView Full Size


480i?  Luxury!  In my day we watched our one lightbulb flicker as the power went on and off, and we liked it.
 
2017-08-22 02:01:12 PM  

Lorrax: jaytkay: facepalm.jpg: jaytkay: Because a 5-inch screen is where HD really shines.

A 5 inch screen that's 10 inches from your face needs HD more than your 50" TV that's sitting 10 or 15 feet across the room.

"Needs"

Because if you can't watch Lego Batman in 1080p in the car, life is not worth living. It's like the Holocaust.

If you want to get picky all you "need" is food, water, and sleep, if you want to get existential you don't need those; "breathing is an addiction".

However:
A. The customer is getting screwed by a monopoly

B. Standards evolve over time; Adam Smith had his example of the linen shirt, (to paraphrase) you wouldn't hire a laborer who didn't own a shirt would you, well the ancient Greeks thought nothing of it. Now having a phone, transport, literacy, and more than a fortnightly bath are standard. When it comes to tech standards advance more rapidly need in this sense is determined by the norm and since you're posting on FARK you buy into this as well, even if you may be on the tail end of the distribution.


A. The customer isn't getting screwed by a monopoly. Verizon doesn't have a monopoly on cell phone service.  There's lots of cellular providers operating in the same areas and they compete for customers. Some customers went with Verizon because Verizon offered unlimited data and now Verizon is putting restrictions on that use by (the horror!) restricting video to 720p. For those complaining that the video doesn't scale well to your 4k TVs, that's true and also not really Verizon's problem. They're providing cell service to phones and tablets. Complaining that the service doesn't work for a home entertainment system is like complaining that my hybrid car is bad for road races. That's just not what it's for.
 
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