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(SB Nation)   New Orleans Saints fire two team doctors who couldn't tell a contusion from a fracture   ( sbnation.com) divider line
    More: Dumbass, National Football League, New Orleans, Sean Payton, cornerback Delvin Breaux, New Orleans Saints, linebacker Dannell Ellerbe, frustrated Saints management, New Orleans Times-Picayune  
•       •       •

874 clicks; posted to Sports » on 16 Aug 2017 at 11:59 PM (17 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



25 Comments     (+0 »)
 
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2017-08-16 07:03:56 PM  
Do they not take radiographs?

That player is barely literate if his tweet is any example.
 
2017-08-16 08:25:44 PM  
img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2017-08-17 12:02:21 AM  
In their defense, contusions and fractures both look the same on the voodoo doll.
 
2017-08-17 01:00:30 AM  
media.gq.comView Full Size
 
2017-08-17 01:34:57 AM  
Yup, one would expect doctors that work on bones to know what a broken one looks like.
 
2017-08-17 06:12:27 AM  
This is what you get when you hire drug dealers to do medical work.
 
2017-08-17 06:50:09 AM  
I've wondered why it's seemed like Saints played get injured all the damn time. This would explain quite a bit if these doctors had been there for awhile.

Also Delvin Breaux just cannot get his legs right. As much as he has above average talent as a CB, his inability to stay on the field is going to make his career quite short at this rate. Then again, the very fact the man can even walk right now under his own power is a miracle so...
 
2017-08-17 07:34:02 AM  

BlueDWarrior: I've wondered why it's seemed like Saints played get injured all the damn time. This would explain quite a bit if these doctors had been there for awhile.

Also Delvin Breaux just cannot get his legs right. As much as he has above average talent as a CB, his inability to stay on the field is going to make his career quite short at this rate. Then again, the very fact the man can even walk right now under his own power is a miracle so...


Apparently they work for the Pelicans too. Guessing that deal won't last much longer.
 
2017-08-17 08:23:56 AM  

BlueDWarrior: I've wondered why it's seemed like Saints played get injured all the damn time. This would explain quite a bit if these doctors had been there for awhile.

Also Delvin Breaux just cannot get his legs right. As much as he has above average talent as a CB, his inability to stay on the field is going to make his career quite short at this rate. Then again, the very fact the man can even walk right now under his own power is a miracle so...


The Saints have had a partnership with the Ochsner medical group for close to a decade now (which oddly is when the medical concerns started to happen), who does a lot of sponsoring of Saints events (the Saints practice field is officially sponsored by Ochsner).  Most teams go out and hire doctors and trainers who specialize in high-performance athletic training and medical care.  The Ochsner group basically sent over their best sports medicine team, but who aren't specifically trained or practiced in professional athletes.

There's been growing rumors from former Saints players that the medical staff for the Saints have been behind the times in how they encourage players to train and in how they treat injuries.  It looks like this confirms the rumors.  It's well known now that Keenan Lewis ran into the same problem.  When the Saints released him, he did a tryout with the Steelers.  The team doctors for the Steelers said he failed his physical because the hip surgery the Saints doctors performed was botched and never healed properly.  In addition, the Saints doctors never actually found the hip problem, it was a different doctor doing a second opinion that found the hip injury.  Why he let the Saints doctors anywhere near him at that point is a mystery.

It's a pretty bad look for a medical group to have the Section Head of Sports Medicine and Cartilage Restoration misdiagnose a bone fracture.
 
2017-08-17 08:42:03 AM  

FuManchu7: BlueDWarrior: I've wondered why it's seemed like Saints played get injured all the damn time. This would explain quite a bit if these doctors had been there for awhile.

Also Delvin Breaux just cannot get his legs right. As much as he has above average talent as a CB, his inability to stay on the field is going to make his career quite short at this rate. Then again, the very fact the man can even walk right now under his own power is a miracle so...

The Saints have had a partnership with the Ochsner medical group for close to a decade now (which oddly is when the medical concerns started to happen), who does a lot of sponsoring of Saints events (the Saints practice field is officially sponsored by Ochsner).  Most teams go out and hire doctors and trainers who specialize in high-performance athletic training and medical care.  The Ochsner group basically sent over their best sports medicine team, but who aren't specifically trained or practiced in professional athletes.

There's been growing rumors from former Saints players that the medical staff for the Saints have been behind the times in how they encourage players to train and in how they treat injuries.  It looks like this confirms the rumors.  It's well known now that Keenan Lewis ran into the same problem.  When the Saints released him, he did a tryout with the Steelers.  The team doctors for the Steelers said he failed his physical because the hip surgery the Saints doctors performed was botched and never healed properly.  In addition, the Saints doctors never actually found the hip problem, it was a different doctor doing a second opinion that found the hip injury.  Why he let the Saints doctors anywhere near him at that point is a mystery.

It's a pretty bad look for a medical group to have the Section Head of Sports Medicine and Cartilage Restoration misdiagnose a bone fracture.


So the Saints might be the Mets of the NFL, in that half team ends up having terrible recurring injury problems that no one can seem to figure out until they are entirely out of that team's system.

Boy that's just swell.
 
2017-08-17 10:17:00 AM  

BlueDWarrior: FuManchu7: BlueDWarrior: I've wondered why it's seemed like Saints played get injured all the damn time. This would explain quite a bit if these doctors had been there for awhile.

Also Delvin Breaux just cannot get his legs right. As much as he has above average talent as a CB, his inability to stay on the field is going to make his career quite short at this rate. Then again, the very fact the man can even walk right now under his own power is a miracle so...

The Saints have had a partnership with the Ochsner medical group for close to a decade now (which oddly is when the medical concerns started to happen), who does a lot of sponsoring of Saints events (the Saints practice field is officially sponsored by Ochsner).  Most teams go out and hire doctors and trainers who specialize in high-performance athletic training and medical care.  The Ochsner group basically sent over their best sports medicine team, but who aren't specifically trained or practiced in professional athletes.

There's been growing rumors from former Saints players that the medical staff for the Saints have been behind the times in how they encourage players to train and in how they treat injuries.  It looks like this confirms the rumors.  It's well known now that Keenan Lewis ran into the same problem.  When the Saints released him, he did a tryout with the Steelers.  The team doctors for the Steelers said he failed his physical because the hip surgery the Saints doctors performed was botched and never healed properly.  In addition, the Saints doctors never actually found the hip problem, it was a different doctor doing a second opinion that found the hip injury.  Why he let the Saints doctors anywhere near him at that point is a mystery.

It's a pretty bad look for a medical group to have the Section Head of Sports Medicine and Cartilage Restoration misdiagnose a bone fracture.

So the Saints might be the Mets of the NFL, in that half team ends up having terrible recurring injury problems that no one can seem to figure out until they are entirely out of that team's system.

Boy that's just swell.


Texans, too, if Clowney, Watt, and Cushing are any indicator.

Chargers, too - they actually had a doctor get stripped of his license.


This is a football problem, not a Saints one.
 
2017-08-17 11:46:32 AM  

Lifeless: BlueDWarrior: FuManchu7: BlueDWarrior: I've wondered why it's seemed like Saints played get
It's a pretty bad look for a medical group to have the Section Head of Sports Medicine and Cartilage Restoration misdiagnose a bone fracture.
So the Saints might be the Mets of the NFL, in that half team ends up having terrible recurring injur ...


A player that is injured is paid (and presumably making a salary cap hit).  A cut player is not.  So either send them back into play or cut them, there is no point in healing them.  A good doctor is a [short term, anyway.  And that is the only thing that matters in modern American business] liability for that.

CTE is a high-profile worst case scenario.  But most of the others aren't any good.  Farkers, don't let your babies grow up to be Cowboys (or Saints, or Texans, or Chargers, or even high school football).
 
2017-08-17 11:49:17 AM  

FriarReb98: Apparently they work for the Pelicans too. Guessing that deal won't last much longer.


Whatever they do in the future I don't recommend the Sixer's staff.
 
2017-08-17 12:20:21 PM  

yet_another_wumpus: Lifeless: BlueDWarrior: FuManchu7: BlueDWarrior: I've wondered why it's seemed like Saints played get
It's a pretty bad look for a medical group to have the Section Head of Sports Medicine and Cartilage Restoration misdiagnose a bone fracture.
So the Saints might be the Mets of the NFL, in that half team ends up having terrible recurring injur ...

A player that is injured is paid (and presumably making a salary cap hit).  A cut player is not.  So either send them back into play or cut them, there is no point in healing them.  A good doctor is a [short term, anyway.  And that is the only thing that matters in modern American business] liability for that.

CTE is a high-profile worst case scenario.  But most of the others aren't any good.  Farkers, don't let your babies grow up to be Cowboys (or Saints, or Texans, or Chargers, or even high school football).


While that is true to some extent, the athletes are also an investment that doesn't pay off if they are unable to take the field in the future. Sure you can run them into the ground, but then you have to find a replacement player which may not be as good or more costly for the performance given. So there is an incentive to keep players healthy enough in the window of maximum utility (depends on the position but usually 3-8 years). If you don't treat the minor things right or use proper techniques for training, you are not going to have them on the field and are giving up a competitive advantage to other teams.  Team doctors and trainers are not just there when the players get hurt, the good ones are there to try and prevent injuries from occurring in the first place.
 
2017-08-17 12:43:58 PM  
Just in case any Atlanta fans wander in and want to take a free shot at the Saints, I have a tip for you ...

pbs.twimg.comView Full Size
 
2017-08-17 12:44:20 PM  
Sorry, that image looked much smaller in preview.
 
2017-08-17 01:36:53 PM  

flynn80: Whatever they do in the future I don't recommend the Sixer's staff.


*Player injures leg*
Staff: Not that bad, should be back in a week or two
*2 months later*: His recovery is taking a tiny bit longer than expected, but everything is fine
*2 months after that*: We had to amputate his foot
 
2017-08-17 02:12:44 PM  

Lifeless: BlueDWarrior: FuManchu7: BlueDWarrior: I've wondered why it's seemed like Saints played get injured all the damn time. This would explain quite a bit if these doctors had been there for awhile.

Also Delvin Breaux just cannot get his legs right. As much as he has above average talent as a CB, his inability to stay on the field is going to make his career quite short at this rate. Then again, the very fact the man can even walk right now under his own power is a miracle so...

The Saints have had a partnership with the Ochsner medical group for close to a decade now (which oddly is when the medical concerns started to happen), who does a lot of sponsoring of Saints events (the Saints practice field is officially sponsored by Ochsner).  Most teams go out and hire doctors and trainers who specialize in high-performance athletic training and medical care.  The Ochsner group basically sent over their best sports medicine team, but who aren't specifically trained or practiced in professional athletes.

There's been growing rumors from former Saints players that the medical staff for the Saints have been behind the times in how they encourage players to train and in how they treat injuries.  It looks like this confirms the rumors.  It's well known now that Keenan Lewis ran into the same problem.  When the Saints released him, he did a tryout with the Steelers.  The team doctors for the Steelers said he failed his physical because the hip surgery the Saints doctors performed was botched and never healed properly.  In addition, the Saints doctors never actually found the hip problem, it was a different doctor doing a second opinion that found the hip injury.  Why he let the Saints doctors anywhere near him at that point is a mystery.

It's a pretty bad look for a medical group to have the Section Head of Sports Medicine and Cartilage Restoration misdiagnose a bone fracture.

So the Saints might be the Mets of the NFL, in that half team ends up having terrible recurring injur ...


If you are a superstar athlete whose meal ticket is a healthy body why WOULDN'T you go get 2nd 3rd and 4th opinions on every medical procedure or diagnosis?
 
2017-08-17 02:32:38 PM  

Magorn: Lifeless: BlueDWarrior: FuManchu7: BlueDWarrior: I've wondered why it's seemed like Saints
If you are a superstar athlete whose meal ticket is a healthy body why WOULDN'T you go get 2nd 3rd and 4th opinions on every medical procedure or diagnosis?


And what does the coach (and front office) think about your little vacation thanks to a doctor's note when the official team doctor knows you can really play?  Never mind the brainless media chatter "he ain't hurt, go in and play!", any player that isn't absolutely required the next game is getting cut.

Even superstars can't expect much better if they are on teams that suck.  The Redacteds basically sacrificed RG3's body for at least one year of "much-better-than-usual-for-the-Redacteds" ball (just check the playcalling, it was basically depraved heart attempted murder).
/much worse if the teams sucks
//but guys on the bubble (and can be cut) are screwed on any team
///53 guys "on the team", most are on the bubble
/V by definition, most players are "replacement level".  On teams that suck, nearly all are or worse
 
2017-08-17 03:19:45 PM  

BlueDWarrior: So the Saints might be the Mets of the NFL


Don't even have to look outside the market for that - it describes the Jets pretty well. Chad Pennington basically spent every odd-numbered year on the DL. We've also had our entire starting secondary (and top backups) go on the DL before the season started.

Arguable that they would have been any good with a normal rate of injury, but it probably would have been nice.
 
2017-08-17 03:22:05 PM  
So much of this depends on the acuity of the injury, and the modality used to image said bone.  It is very common for radiographs, taken immediately after the injury, to appear negative.  Take the same radiograph 7-10 days later, and the fx jumps out at you.

This is especially common with hip injuries...over the course of my career I have seen dozens of hip pain patients present to me with radiographs read as normal...and, when I do the MRI the fractured hip literally jumps out at you.  It is impossible to miss on T1 and STIR imaging.   Hence, many times plain film, ct and mri are used concomitantly.

In healthcare we try to be judicious with everyone's dollars...ergo, the 17 y/o male with a sprained ankle that shows negative on plain film, most likely won't get an MRI, due to cost.  However, if his pain persists with conservative therapy (ice,nsaids,PT), with no improvement then an MRI is indicated.

However, with an NFL player, I would think that an MRI is probably indicated with virtually all fx's and contusions.  Contusions, on MRI are also impossible to miss, given the appropriate pulse sequences and properly trained techs and radiologists.
 
2017-08-17 04:32:13 PM  

stir22: So much of this depends on the acuity of the injury, and the modality used to image said bone.  It is very common for radiographs, taken immediately after the injury, to appear negative.  Take the same radiograph 7-10 days later, and the fx jumps out at you.

This is especially common with hip injuries...over the course of my career I have seen dozens of hip pain patients present to me with radiographs read as normal...and, when I do the MRI the fractured hip literally jumps out at you.  It is impossible to miss on T1 and STIR imaging.   Hence, many times plain film, ct and mri are used concomitantly.

In healthcare we try to be judicious with everyone's dollars...ergo, the 17 y/o male with a sprained ankle that shows negative on plain film, most likely won't get an MRI, due to cost.  However, if his pain persists with conservative therapy (ice,nsaids,PT), with no improvement then an MRI is indicated.

However, with an NFL player, I would think that an MRI is probably indicated with virtually all fx's and contusions.  Contusions, on MRI are also impossible to miss, given the appropriate pulse sequences and properly trained techs and radiologists.


I think this is the main complaint with the Saints old medical staff.  They were treating the athletes like Bob who likes to run Tough Mudder courses on the weekend.

They diagnosed Breaux with a contusion and said he should be good to go in a week or so.  Two weeks later he still wasn't practicing complaining of pain, and the doctors advised Payton that medically he's fine without doing a follow up to see why he was still complaining about pain.  Payton then lets the rumor out that they are shopping Breaux around the league to "motivate" him that his malingering wasn't going to be tolerated anymore.  Breaux then went out on his own and got a second opinion and behold he has a fracture that required surgery to correct.  The site of the injury was right below a plate from the surgery he had last year on the same leg.

There's a lot of red flags there, especially with the pain being in the vicinity of a previous surgery with hardware still implanted, and the Saints doctors were just like, "meh, he's good from our end".
 
2017-08-17 05:20:03 PM  

BlueDWarrior: FuManchu7: BlueDWarrior: I've wondered why it's seemed like Saints played get injured all the damn time. This would explain quite a bit if these doctors had been there for awhile.

Also Delvin Breaux just cannot get his legs right. As much as he has above average talent as a CB, his inability to stay on the field is going to make his career quite short at this rate. Then again, the very fact the man can even walk right now under his own power is a miracle so...

The Saints have had a partnership with the Ochsner medical group for close to a decade now (which oddly is when the medical concerns started to happen), who does a lot of sponsoring of Saints events (the Saints practice field is officially sponsored by Ochsner).  Most teams go out and hire doctors and trainers who specialize in high-performance athletic training and medical care.  The Ochsner group basically sent over their best sports medicine team, but who aren't specifically trained or practiced in professional athletes.

There's been growing rumors from former Saints players that the medical staff for the Saints have been behind the times in how they encourage players to train and in how they treat injuries.  It looks like this confirms the rumors.  It's well known now that Keenan Lewis ran into the same problem.  When the Saints released him, he did a tryout with the Steelers.  The team doctors for the Steelers said he failed his physical because the hip surgery the Saints doctors performed was botched and never healed properly.  In addition, the Saints doctors never actually found the hip problem, it was a different doctor doing a second opinion that found the hip injury.  Why he let the Saints doctors anywhere near him at that point is a mystery.

It's a pretty bad look for a medical group to have the Section Head of Sports Medicine and Cartilage Restoration misdiagnose a bone fracture.

So the Saints might be the Mets of the NFL, in that half team ends up having terrible recurring injury problems tha ...


The Titans, too. We've ruined more WR than I can count from tendon and muscle injuries. Yet the media consistently says our strength and conditioning coach is among the best.

/Maybe among the best at having blackmail material
 
2017-08-17 05:34:11 PM  

FuManchu7: stir22: So much of this depends on the acuity of the injury, and the modality used to image said bone.  It is very common for radiographs, taken immediately after the injury, to appear negative.  Take the same radiograph 7-10 days later, and the fx jumps out at you.

This is especially common with hip injuries...over the course of my career I have seen dozens of hip pain patients present to me with radiographs read as normal...and, when I do the MRI the fractured hip literally jumps out at you.  It is impossible to miss on T1 and STIR imaging.   Hence, many times plain film, ct and mri are used concomitantly.

In healthcare we try to be judicious with everyone's dollars...ergo, the 17 y/o male with a sprained ankle that shows negative on plain film, most likely won't get an MRI, due to cost.  However, if his pain persists with conservative therapy (ice,nsaids,PT), with no improvement then an MRI is indicated.

However, with an NFL player, I would think that an MRI is probably indicated with virtually all fx's and contusions.  Contusions, on MRI are also impossible to miss, given the appropriate pulse sequences and properly trained techs and radiologists.

I think this is the main complaint with the Saints old medical staff.  They were treating the athletes like Bob who likes to run Tough Mudder courses on the weekend.

They diagnosed Breaux with a contusion and said he should be good to go in a week or so.  Two weeks later he still wasn't practicing complaining of pain, and the doctors advised Payton that medically he's fine without doing a follow up to see why he was still complaining about pain.  Payton then lets the rumor out that they are shopping Breaux around the league to "motivate" him that his malingering wasn't going to be tolerated anymore.  Breaux then went out on his own and got a second opinion and behold he has a fracture that required surgery to correct.  The site of the injury was right below a plate from the surgery he had last year on the same leg.

There's a lot of red flags there, especially with the pain being in the vicinity of a previous surgery with hardware still implanted, and the Saints doctors were just like, "meh, he's good from our end".


Thank you.  Interesting, to be sure.  I know the medical staffs of green bay and Cleveland.  I erroneously assumed a standard of care, industry wide, in the NFL.  I was wrong.
 
2017-08-17 06:14:58 PM  
I thought my job was just to throw a metric ton of horse tranquilizers at the players and put them back on the field.  What's the problem?
 
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