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(The Eagle Tribune)   Massachusetts lawmakers start phasing out English language education   ( eagletribune.com) divider line
    More: Interesting, English language, English language learners, United Kingdom, school districts, immersion law, English immersion, English immersion law, Second language  
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2376 clicks; posted to Politics » on 13 Aug 2017 at 11:33 AM (17 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2017-08-13 08:52:17 AM  
There might be hope for us yet.

/This is Rome! Speak Latin!!
 
2017-08-13 09:22:23 AM  
Around 100 years ago, small communities in rural Illinois had German speaking schools - up to 25% of them. A practical matter.
 
2017-08-13 09:29:33 AM  
Yes, Smitty, schools are phasing out English ONLY education. It's terrible when schools realize that they have more flexibility to teach new students, especially those who don't have facility in English. I'm sure that the children of refugees will appreciate this flexibility in their new home, but the headline suggests that you'd be far more excited to just see them founder and fail, because circumstances gave them a new home. STIGGINIT just seems so much better, doesn't it Smitty?
 
2017-08-13 09:37:48 AM  

hubiestubert: STIGGINIT just seems so much better, doesn't it Smitty?


Might want to adjust your sarcasm detector there, Hubie.

/ not subby
// understood headline
 
2017-08-13 10:13:05 AM  

Man On A Mission: hubiestubert: STIGGINIT just seems so much better, doesn't it Smitty?

Might want to adjust your sarcasm detector there, Hubie.

/ not subby
// understood headline


I will plead a six day week, filled with doubles, and no where near enough naps in yet. Mea culpa. This week is going to take a bit to leech out of my system, so yeah, I was a bit hasty.

Then again, there is just Sofa King much Wrong over the last few days, both at work and in the country, I'll readily admit, I'm looking for something to vent my liver upon.
 
2017-08-13 10:18:46 AM  

hubiestubert: Man On A Mission: hubiestubert: STIGGINIT just seems so much better, doesn't it Smitty?

Might want to adjust your sarcasm detector there, Hubie.

/ not subby
// understood headline

I will plead a six day week, filled with doubles, and no where near enough naps in yet. Mea culpa. This week is going to take a bit to leech out of my system, so yeah, I was a bit hasty.

Then again, there is just Sofa King much Wrong over the last few days, both at work and in the country, I'll readily admit, I'm looking for something to vent my liver upon.


Understood. It has been an exceptionally insane week.

Hey, if you want to have fun, you could head over to http://www.fark.com/comments/9695877/ and make fun of drunk admins.

/ I know, it's like shooting fish in a barrel
 
2017-08-13 11:14:56 AM  
I'm pretty surprised that we passed a bill mandating "no foreign language for extended periods of time" in our schools a mere 12 years ago.
 
2017-08-13 11:17:08 AM  

hubiestubert: Yes, Smitty, schools are phasing out English ONLY education. It's terrible when schools realize that they have more flexibility to teach new students, especially those who don't have facility in English. I'm sure that the children of refugees will appreciate this flexibility in their new home, but the headline suggests that you'd be far more excited to just see them founder and fail, because circumstances gave them a new home. STIGGINIT just seems so much better, doesn't it Smitty?


IIRC, when Cali banned education in languages other than English, some of the biggest supporters were recent immigrants. They wanted their kids to learn English and schools were providing very little in the way of English education.
 
2017-08-13 11:36:14 AM  
Like that nonsense they speak in Massachusetts is anything close to English...
 
2017-08-13 11:40:34 AM  

jaylectricity: I'm pretty surprised that we passed a bill mandating "no foreign language for extended periods of time" in our schools a mere 12 years ago.


That's the same election that gave us Mitt Romney.
 
2017-08-13 11:44:46 AM  
That's ok, they can pick english up later on.

Stripes- Da Do Run Run
Youtube XJqlfMP-klM
 
2017-08-13 11:48:55 AM  

ArkAngel: hubiestubert: Yes, Smitty, schools are phasing out English ONLY education. It's terrible when schools realize that they have more flexibility to teach new students, especially those who don't have facility in English. I'm sure that the children of refugees will appreciate this flexibility in their new home, but the headline suggests that you'd be far more excited to just see them founder and fail, because circumstances gave them a new home. STIGGINIT just seems so much better, doesn't it Smitty?

IIRC, when Cali banned education in languages other than English, some of the biggest supporters were recent immigrants. They wanted their kids to learn English and schools were providing very little in the way of English education.


I used to work in a bilingual high school in south america.  Math, History, Science, was taught in english.  Everything else was in Spanish.   99.9 percent of the kids there by end of 10 grade spoke like they were from the states.

Californias problem is that the teachers were lazy and did not force the students to learn english.

I think every high school student should have to learn another language, and use it half the day in school.  Not this bullshiat I hear"I learned spanish in high school".  No you did not, you had three farking classes.
 
2017-08-13 11:50:42 AM  
Ja, Smitty, Schulen sind aussteigen Englisch NUR Ausbildung. Es ist schrecklich, wenn die Schulen erkennen, dass sie mehr Flexibilität haben, um neue Studenten zu unterrichten, vor allem diejenigen, die keine Einrichtung in Englisch haben. Ich bin mir sicher, dass die Kinder der Flüchtlinge diese Flexibilität in ihrem neuen Zuhause zu schätzen wissen, aber die Schlagzeile schlägt vor, dass Sie viel mehr aufgeregt sein würden, um sie nur zu sehen und zu scheitern, weil die Umstände ihnen ein neues Zuhause gaben. STIGGINIT scheint einfach so viel besser, nicht smitty?
 
2017-08-13 11:50:55 AM  

theflatline: I think every high school student should have to learn another language, and use it half the day in school. Not this bullshiat I hear"I learned spanish in high school". No you did not, you had three farking classes.


I had spanish classes in jr high and high school, and really wish to this day that it had sunk in.
 
2017-08-13 11:56:23 AM  
Ah day gonna still paak day car in day yaad subby?
 
2017-08-13 12:06:41 PM  

skinink: Ja, Smitty, Schulen sind aussteigen Englisch NUR Ausbildung. Es ist schrecklich, wenn die Schulen erkennen, dass sie mehr Flexibilität haben, um neue Studenten zu unterrichten, vor allem diejenigen, die keine Einrichtung in Englisch haben. Ich bin mir sicher, dass die Kinder der Flüchtlinge diese Flexibilität in ihrem neuen Zuhause zu schätzen wissen, aber die Schlagzeile schlägt vor, dass Sie viel mehr aufgeregt sein würden, um sie nur zu sehen und zu scheitern, weil die Umstände ihnen ein neues Zuhause gaben. STIGGINIT scheint einfach so viel besser, nicht smitty?


Bitte, eine minute. My family immigrated to the US from Germany when I was ten. My American teachers and classmates spoke only the Midwestern version of English. I spoke passable English in one month, and in the third month found myself thinking in English. My brother who had some ADD was six and acquired English faster than I did. By age sixteen I had just trace of accent which I blame on watching a lot of Warner Bros cartoons. I speak like Mel Blanc! My parents had a much more difficult time. Total immersion is very useful for language mastery and works better the younger the student.
 
2017-08-13 12:08:05 PM  

basemetal: theflatline: I think every high school student should have to learn another language, and use it half the day in school. Not this bullshiat I hear"I learned spanish in high school". No you did not, you had three farking classes.

I had spanish classes in jr high and high school, and really wish to this day that it had sunk in.


Ditto. I work with several native Spanish speakers and, while they also speak perfect English, it's nice when I can address them in Spanish. I'm trying to learn some now, but it's much harder than when you're a kid.
 
2017-08-13 12:18:03 PM  
Horrible headline, subby.

They're phasing out English only language education. There's a huge difference here. Your wonderful use of English makes it read as if they weren't going to teach English at all, which is ridiculous.
 
2017-08-13 12:22:14 PM  
Oh good, Mass is teaching kids so that they will not be hired for anything other than 7-11.  I guess they just gave up on caring whether the kids progress or not.

I don't care if someone decides that they will only allow their kids to speak Klingon, but do not expect me attempt to communicate with someone who shows no desire to communicate with me.

My wife did not speak English when she came to the US, now she is an engineer.  Her mother who came to the US in the 60's, still does not speak English, so she just hides in her room waiting to die.
 
2017-08-13 12:32:25 PM  
Offering education in other languages is fine as long as the students still learn  English. Nothing splinters a society like a language barrier. English is already the most common language in the nation and therefore it is the obvious choice.

/Our forgiven language classes suck
//I forgot everything from high school Spanish
///I can still carry on conversations in Portuguese after living there for just 1 year. Immersion ftw.
 
2017-08-13 12:35:23 PM  
I will turn autocorrect off one of these days. Foreign -> forgiven? Unacceptable. Learning how to properly type on my phone? Unacceptable!
 
2017-08-13 12:38:10 PM  
"English language learners are almost three times as likely to drop out of high school and a quarter less likely to graduate on time," said Marion Davis, a spokeswoman for the Massachusetts Immigrant and Refugee Advocacy Coalition, which supports the bill. "Their test scores are considerably lower than those of native English speakers."

Ok, but what was it like before the law?
MA students have, by far, the best test scores in the country. They are comparable to the best scoring countries in the world.
 
2017-08-13 12:45:45 PM  
Curious what will happen with my own son who is in Kindergarten.  He may be the only native English speaker in his whole class; possibly the only one speaking English at the moment.  I haven't seen all the kids, but the dozen that were there for the open house; none of the parents spoke English.  They were all speaking Spanish.

Wife and I are debating transferring him to another school.
 
2017-08-13 12:46:59 PM  

edmo: Around 100 years ago, small communities in rural Illinois had German speaking schools - up to 25% of them. A practical matter.


Yea, but that was over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor...
 
2017-08-13 12:47:37 PM  
That's right, if kids become fluent in the dominant language of the country they live in they might, gasp, assimilate and no longer be prime candidates for recruitment into the grievance-nursing victimhood that makes up one of the Democratic Party's prime constituencies. And screw you, "duped" Massachusetts voters who instituted the present system, when the hell did you start to matter?
 
2017-08-13 12:48:04 PM  

I dont want to be on this planet anymore: That's ok, they can pick english up later on.

[YouTube video]


The Critic S1 E6 English for Cab Drivers
Youtube ANDr-NsjHTk
 
2017-08-13 12:52:01 PM  

Hyjamon: Curious what will happen with my own son who is in Kindergarten.  He may be the only native English speaker in his whole class; possibly the only one speaking English at the moment.  I haven't seen all the kids, but the dozen that were there for the open house; none of the parents spoke English.  They were all speaking Spanish.

Wife and I are debating transferring him to another school.


Why cripple your childs intellectual development by "not" exposing him to another language when his mind is ripe to learn it, and knowing another language only improves his chances at life.

Kids look at learning another language as just learning more words.

Just because the parents were not speaking English, does not mean the kids do not, and they are not indoctrinating anyone to become a latino in kindergarten.
 
2017-08-13 12:52:54 PM  

Mikey1969: Horrible headline, subby.

They're phasing out English only language education. There's a huge difference here. Your wonderful use of English makes it read as if they weren't going to teach English at all, which is ridiculous.


And another broken sarcasm detector... (sigh)

/ you know how I know you didn't read the thread before posting?
 
2017-08-13 01:07:22 PM  

skinink: Ja, Smitty, Schulen sind aussteigen Englisch NUR Ausbildung. Es ist schrecklich, wenn die Schulen erkennen, dass sie mehr Flexibilität haben, um neue Studenten zu unterrichten, vor allem diejenigen, die keine Einrichtung in Englisch haben. Ich bin mir sicher, dass die Kinder der Flüchtlinge diese Flexibilität in ihrem neuen Zuhause zu schätzen wissen, aber die Schlagzeile schlägt vor, dass Sie viel mehr aufgeregt sein würden, um sie nur zu sehen und zu scheitern, weil die Umstände ihnen ein neues Zuhause gaben. STIGGINIT scheint einfach so viel besser, nicht smitty?


Ja, das stimmt, aber viele Schulen haben ein Dilemma, dass ihre überwiegend englischsprachigen Studenten auch kein Englisch sprechen können. Weder der kleine Johann noch der kleine Johnny kann lesen. Dieses Gesetz sollte aufgehoben werden.

Also, I'm pretty sure the headline was satirical.

CSB:
When my oldest went to pre-k, there was a Latina child there who spoke no English at all. I am a believer in immersion, but picture yourself as a shy four year old left alone in a room of strangers where no one understands what you are saying. Even the teachers spoke no Spanish. Being a caring mom and preschool teacher, I dredged up what I could remember of basic greetings and spoke to the girl. Her face immediately lit up, and she started speaking excitedly, thinking I understood her. Unfortunately, I couldn't keep up. If children are going to be immersed, I feel that teachers ought to know enough to at least meet the child's basic needs in their own language.
 
2017-08-13 01:08:51 PM  
I was born in Kirkland lake, about 40 minutes west of the ontario quebec border. My family is not, ahem, intellectuals in any sense but on my dad's side they all speak passable French,  just like most francophones speak passable English in ontario.

My little brother is married to a native French speaker and you could never even tell she's a frenchie until you hear her speak French. He couldn't pick it up at all, I got good at it from working in Congo Drc.

I'm stoked that they are raising their baby in French! My dad seems to take offense to it, but I told him "he's gonna pick up English,  they live in ontario. Why not make him good at two languages? There are a lot more useless skills kids learn these days.
 
2017-08-13 01:09:13 PM  

JesusIsNowBlind: Like that nonsense they speak in Massachusetts is anything close to English...


For supper I want a party platter
Youtube yQU4bbPbr7w
 
2017-08-13 01:10:35 PM  

Grungehamster: JesusIsNowBlind: Like that nonsense they speak in Massachusetts is anything close to English...

[YouTube video]


Now you try pipsqeak!
 
2017-08-13 01:13:28 PM  
I'm pretty liberal, but at the same time, I don't think it's unreasonable to say that your FREE education should be in the language that most people in this country speak and do business in.
 
2017-08-13 01:18:50 PM  

what_now: jaylectricity: I'm pretty surprised that we passed a bill mandating "no foreign language for extended periods of time" in our schools a mere 12 years ago.

That's the same election that gave us Mitt Romney.


Eesh. I forget about the part of MA outside the 495 circle.
 
2017-08-13 01:23:51 PM  
I have a daughter and I'm hoping our schools will bring in Chinese/Japanese at some point. If not we'll make do with Spanish, since I use it for work.
 
2017-08-13 01:25:01 PM  
See, this is why the White Supremacists are still pissed. They actually thought Trump would have people of color in chains or deported by now. When this kind of stuff happens, it dawns on them a little bit more that Trump played them for fools. You know that's gotta hurt..
 
2017-08-13 01:27:29 PM  
"English language learners are almost three times as likely to drop out of high school and a quarter less likely to graduate on time," said Marion Davis, a spokeswoman for the Massachusetts Immigrant and Refugee Advocacy Coalition, which supports the bill. "Their test scores are considerably lower than those of native English speakers."

What were the graduation rates and test scores before English immersion? A graph covering the past 30 years would be perfect -- we could see if there was an obvious inflection point to make the case stronger.
 
2017-08-13 01:30:25 PM  
I know there's resource issues but I think it'd be cool if schools offered a more diverse selection of language classes. Spanish is useful, but education shouldn't strictly serve what's most economically prudent. Will Italian, for example, be very useful for American students to learn? Not really, but it may provide other intangible benefits.
 
2017-08-13 01:38:28 PM  

edmo: Around 100 years ago, small communities in rural Illinois had German speaking schools - up to 25% of them. A practical matter.


And none of them were evil men.
 
2017-08-13 01:41:03 PM  

Man On A Mission: Mikey1969: Horrible headline, subby.

They're phasing out English only language education. There's a huge difference here. Your wonderful use of English makes it read as if they weren't going to teach English at all, which is ridiculous.

And another broken sarcasm detector... (sigh)

/ you know how I know you didn't read the thread before posting?


It's shiatty "sarcasm". I take it this was your proudest attempt ever?
 
2017-08-13 01:52:48 PM  
I've posted this elsewhere on Fark, but I feel it should be repeated.

Teaching young students to be multilingual the same way other countries teach English alongside their native tongue, is a WONDERFUL idea.

The vast majority of Americans not being able to speak more than one language is not a failure of tourists/immigrants to the US (the "Melting Pot") it is a failure of us.

When I am out and about and hear someone speaking a different language, I don't think "dammit speak English", I think "why didn't I put an effort into learning (and remembering) more than just English?"

/and chances are they aren't saying anything about you and are saying the same stupid mundane stuff we say
 
2017-08-13 02:01:40 PM  

theflatline: Hyjamon: Curious what will happen with my own son who is in Kindergarten.  He may be the only native English speaker in his whole class; possibly the only one speaking English at the moment.  I haven't seen all the kids, but the dozen that were there for the open house; none of the parents spoke English.  They were all speaking Spanish.

Wife and I are debating transferring him to another school.

Why cripple your childs intellectual development by "not" exposing him to another language when his mind is ripe to learn it, and knowing another language only improves his chances at life.

Kids look at learning another language as just learning more words.

Just because the parents were not speaking English, does not mean the kids do not, and they are not indoctrinating anyone to become a latino in kindergarten.


they are not teaching Spanish though.  Our concern is the part of the day that is slotted for reading OR ESOL.  If 19 of 20 kids go to the ESOL part and only 1 goes to the reading part we are worried about isolation and him feeling excluded.  It may be nothing or it may be something; waiting for a chance to observe or speak with the teacher or VP.  Only the first week at the moment.

weird thing is he is already picking up "boy" colors and "girl" colors; or "girls can't play this or do science" type crap.
 
2017-08-13 02:06:23 PM  

meerclarschild: If children are going to be immersed, I feel that teachers ought to know enough to at least meet the child's basic needs in their own language.


WANTED: Teachers - must know basic language skills in Spanish, Arabic, Creole, French, Dutch, Chinese and others; Master's degree in education - salary $40k plus the derision of all society and politicians.  Bonus furloughs based on experience.  You must provide own supplies and supplies for students.  Absolutely no capri pants!
 
2017-08-13 02:15:53 PM  
Speaking foreign words in a school is a violation of my religious rights!

Or something.
 
kab
2017-08-13 02:20:04 PM  
basically, if you want to belong in America, you'd better learn English

Sorry, I really don't see the problem.   Remind me again how people from all walks of life having the capacity to all fully communicate with each other is a 'bad thing'.
 
2017-08-13 02:23:31 PM  

Hyjamon: meerclarschild: If children are going to be immersed, I feel that teachers ought to know enough to at least meet the child's basic needs in their own language.

WANTED: Teachers - must know basic language skills in Spanish, Arabic, Creole, French, Dutch, Chinese and others; Master's degree in education - salary $40k plus the derision of all society and politicians.  Bonus furloughs based on experience.  You must provide own supplies and supplies for students.  Absolutely no capri pants!


I'm not talking language learning. I think for safety, the teacher should ascertain if there are any non-English speakers in the class and prepare a few key phrases in that native language. Knowing how to say, "Are you ok?" and "Do you need the nurse?" and "Do you need to use the bathroom?" would pretty much cover it. After all, you don't want to stand in front of the class trying to play charades about puking or needing the restroom. I think fire alarms would be pretty obvious as to what is expected, so that shouldn't be an issue. The above questions should be picked up in English fairly quickly, and then you're done until next year and a little more learned yourself.

/we surely don't pay teachers well enough
//or respect the profession
///a-b-c-1-2-threesies
 
2017-08-13 02:33:00 PM  

kab: basically, if you want to belong in America, you'd better learn English

Sorry, I really don't see the problem.   Remind me again how people from all walks of life having the capacity to all fully communicate with each other is a 'bad thing'.


what is easier/more practical?  everyone learn seven languages or everyone learn a common one?  if everyone knows two languages but no two know the same ones, how are they fully communicating with each other?

Hell, even the UN agrees it cannot cater to the language of all 150+ countries and got down to a common handful.

multi-lingual society is okay, ALL-lingual society is a bit unreasonable.
 
2017-08-13 02:34:53 PM  

meerclarschild: Hyjamon: meerclarschild: If children are going to be immersed, I feel that teachers ought to know enough to at least meet the child's basic needs in their own language.

WANTED: Teachers - must know basic language skills in Spanish, Arabic, Creole, French, Dutch, Chinese and others; Master's degree in education - salary $40k plus the derision of all society and politicians.  Bonus furloughs based on experience.  You must provide own supplies and supplies for students.  Absolutely no capri pants!

I'm not talking language learning. I think for safety, the teacher should ascertain if there are any non-English speakers in the class and prepare a few key phrases in that native language. Knowing how to say, "Are you ok?" and "Do you need the nurse?" and "Do you need to use the bathroom?" would pretty much cover it. After all, you don't want to stand in front of the class trying to play charades about puking or needing the restroom. I think fire alarms would be pretty obvious as to what is expected, so that shouldn't be an issue. The above questions should be picked up in English fairly quickly, and then you're done until next year and a little more learned yourself.

/we surely don't pay teachers well enough
//or respect the profession
///a-b-c-1-2-threesies


gotcha, your phrase "meet the child's basic needs" could be quite a demand depending on what constitutes "basic needs"
 
2017-08-13 02:49:32 PM  
Hyjamon:

weird thing is he is already picking up "boy" colors and "girl" colors; or "girls can't play this or do science" type crap

That's pretty normal in the kindergarten age group dynamic. They're feeling out different connections and separations within their little society. This is especially true if they haven't attended preschool. I'm finding that awareness and reinforcement that all that stuff is crap is sometimes a tough job. My first-grader likes construction vehicles and she often gets rebuffed when she tries to join a group and play. She knows how to stand up for herself respectfully, but it's tiring.

/you should see the reactions when I tell kids that I was a Marine
//but...but...you're a girl
///you don't say
 
2017-08-13 02:54:49 PM  

meerclarschild: Hyjamon:

weird thing is he is already picking up "boy" colors and "girl" colors; or "girls can't play this or do science" type crap

That's pretty normal in the kindergarten age group dynamic. They're feeling out different connections and separations within their little society. This is especially true if they haven't attended preschool. I'm finding that awareness and reinforcement that all that stuff is crap is sometimes a tough job. My first-grader likes construction vehicles and she often gets rebuffed when she tries to join a group and play. She knows how to stand up for herself respectfully, but it's tiring.

/you should see the reactions when I tell kids that I was a Marine
//but...but...you're a girl
///you don't say


understood.  he and his sister have been/are in pre-school and we really try to stamp that crap out at home.  Hell, I have been trained on how to increase women in stem and learned a lot about detractors and how to mitigate/eliminate them.  We just keep correcting him, eventually it will stick...we hope.

/three year daughter loves home depot and play tools; yet still loves pink and bleeds glitter
 
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