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(Thurrott)   Microsoft has a cow after Consumer Reports pans and de-recommends Surface PCs for industry-worst failure rates, declares Surface the greatest PC of them all and HUUGELY popular with its customers and fans. Thanks, Donald   ( thurrott.com) divider line
    More: Obvious, Failure rate, Consumer Reports, Surface Book, Failure, Reliability engineering, Apple Inc., Annualized failure rate, Reliability theory  
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1474 clicks; posted to Business » on 12 Aug 2017 at 3:17 PM (18 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



41 Comments     (+0 »)
 
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2017-08-12 11:16:01 AM  
I bought a Surface Book last December.  It started locking up after 2 days, while I was deployed and Microsoft did nothing about it.  Luckily a local Best Buy let me return it after 2 months, it was a $3000 POS.
 
2017-08-12 11:19:06 AM  
What's the difference between Microsoft and Donald Trump?

Neither of them work, but mercifully you only have to install Donald Trump once.
 
2017-08-12 11:24:04 AM  
I like my Surface Pro 4 a lot. Have had it for 15 months with very few issues.
 
2017-08-12 12:46:04 PM  
I tend to avoid devices with permanently installed batteries. This isn't such a big deal with phones as they are still getting better at a fast enough rate to justify replacing them every couple years but laptops are expensive enough that I want to keep them working in some capacity for 5 - 7 years. YMMV.
 
TWX
2017-08-12 02:20:34 PM  

fragMasterFlash: I tend to avoid devices with permanently installed batteries. This isn't such a big deal with phones as they are still getting better at a fast enough rate to justify replacing them every couple years but laptops are expensive enough that I want to keep them working in some capacity for 5 - 7 years. YMMV.


It's very difficult to avoid integrated batteries these days, but one can at least make the effort to identify which models are somewhat serviceable.

I ended up buying a Dell XPS 13 9360, in-part because I wanted an ultrabook-sized machine that runs Linux (Dell sells a version with Ubuntu preloaded and basically everything working properly so I knew it would be possible) and I wanted a high-end machine with fairly modular construction. There are separate boards for at least some of the connectors so if the thing gets dropped with a cable or device plugged-in I might be able to fix it without having to replace the whole mainboard. The memory is soldered on, but the storage is modular. Also the base is held together with screws so it can be opened-up without having to contend with loads of adhesives.

Granted, this is not a tablet, but there's a 2-in-1 model that's similar size and construction that will let the keyboard flip around to become a tablet, albeit a bit heavier than a true-tablet, but with a lot more capability as a laptop and business computer than a true-tablet offers.

As for the cost, there are two schools of thought. One is to buy the expensive model that runs for 5+ years (which happens to be the method I subscribe-to) and the other is to buy the cheapo-model that does what one needs right now, and to replace every year or two. I don't like migrating from computer to computer, I find it tedious and since I would prefer to use Linux I have to be wary of unsupported hardware, but if one tends to lose or break computers then the cheap-frequent model may make more sense, if one has to step-back to a previous model sitting on the shelf gathering dust one can, or one can afford to inexpensively replace the broken/lost one at any time.
 
jbc [TotalFark]
2017-08-12 03:30:45 PM  
img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2017-08-12 03:45:10 PM  

TWX: fragMasterFlash: I tend to avoid devices with permanently installed batteries. This isn't such a big deal with phones as they are still getting better at a fast enough rate to justify replacing them every couple years but laptops are expensive enough that I want to keep them working in some capacity for 5 - 7 years. YMMV.

It's very difficult to avoid integrated batteries these days, but one can at least make the effort to identify which models are somewhat serviceable.

I ended up buying a Dell XPS 13 9360, in-part because I wanted an ultrabook-sized machine that runs Linux (Dell sells a version with Ubuntu preloaded and basically everything working properly so I knew it would be possible) and I wanted a high-end machine with fairly modular construction. There are separate boards for at least some of the connectors so if the thing gets dropped with a cable or device plugged-in I might be able to fix it without having to replace the whole mainboard. The memory is soldered on, but the storage is modular. Also the base is held together with screws so it can be opened-up without having to contend with loads of adhesives.

Granted, this is not a tablet, but there's a 2-in-1 model that's similar size and construction that will let the keyboard flip around to become a tablet, albeit a bit heavier than a true-tablet, but with a lot more capability as a laptop and business computer than a true-tablet offers.

As for the cost, there are two schools of thought. One is to buy the expensive model that runs for 5+ years (which happens to be the method I subscribe-to) and the other is to buy the cheapo-model that does what one needs right now, and to replace every year or two. I don't like migrating from computer to computer, I find it tedious and since I would prefer to use Linux I have to be wary of unsupported hardware, but if one tends to lose or break computers then the cheap-frequent model may make more sense, if one has to step-back to a previous model sitting on the ...


I went the "low cost but easily replaceable" route with a Linx, which is basically a Surface clone for half the price.

It works great and has been totally reliable. My only issue is the speakers aren't that powerful and in a loud environment you struggle to hear it. But other than that it's a full Windows 10 PC and tablet for £230, including tax. It's got full USB3 port, includes the keyboard, can run an external monitor as a dual display PC, has trackpad and can use any full size keyboard and mouse and a micro SD card slot to add a lot more storage for peanuts. And it I break it it's only two hundred pounds to replace.
 
2017-08-12 03:59:11 PM  

brantgoose: What's the difference between Microsoft and Donald Trump?

Neither of them work, but mercifully you only have to install Donald Trump once.


Microsoft actually makes a profit and is managed by adults.  Those are two key differences.
 
2017-08-12 03:59:59 PM  
Wife is on 3rd surface in 2 yrs. Stopped thinking they were cool after first one locked up and didn't boot one day after 6 months. Laughed at the second one. I ignore the 3rd one when it's being weird.
Kind of like kids!
Luckily, work provided.
 
2017-08-12 05:33:11 PM  
We bought a bunch of them at work for the execs.

They are EASILY the most unreliable "notebooks" we've ever had. It's ridiculous. Endless bizarre issues. Lately we switched to the Dell equivalent of a "Surface", and they're FAR better.
 
2017-08-12 05:40:23 PM  
If it's not a hardware issue, most tech savvy people can fix the shiat(software, bad drivers) on their own, but pay subscribers(these are their surveyors) to Consumer Reports aren't tech savy.
/I know no one under 45 that WOULD PAY to take a farking survey.
//You're better off going to Reddit or a tech forum than looking at anything tech related on CR
 
2017-08-12 05:52:29 PM  

drjekel_mrhyde: If it's not a hardware issue, most tech savvy people can fix the shiat(software, bad drivers) on their own, but pay subscribers(these are their surveyors) to Consumer Reports aren't tech savy.
/I know no one under 45 that WOULD PAY to take a farking survey.
//You're better off going to Reddit or a tech forum than looking at anything tech related on CR


Yeah but if that was the case then unreliability would be high for all tech products.

Disappointing.  Ah well.
 
2017-08-12 05:56:41 PM  

realmolo: We bought a bunch of them at work for the execs.

They are EASILY the most unreliable "notebooks" we've ever had. It's ridiculous. Endless bizarre issues. Lately we switched to the Dell equivalent of a "Surface", and they're FAR better.


We got some in for testing with an eye toward corporate deployment.
They got the coveted "Ha ha ha! No" Rating.
 
2017-08-12 06:17:14 PM  

Shazam999: drjekel_mrhyde: If it's not a hardware issue, most tech savvy people can fix the shiat(software, bad drivers) on their own, but pay subscribers(these are their surveyors) to Consumer Reports aren't tech savy.
/I know no one under 45 that WOULD PAY to take a farking survey.
//You're better off going to Reddit or a tech forum than looking at anything tech related on CR

Yeah but if that was the case then unreliability would be high for all tech products.

Disappointing.  Ah well.


Apple https://www.theverge.com/2017/1/12/14258594/consumer-reports-apple-ma​c​-book-pro-battery-life-recommendation
 
2017-08-12 06:24:38 PM  
I'm on my third one in fourteen months.  The battery already won't hold a charge, despite the fact that it has never been drained down all the way.

jbc: [img.fark.net image 800x600]



Love the zune.  Still have mine.
 
2017-08-12 06:50:12 PM  
Ooh, Consumer Reports recommends Apple products, not Microsoft.

fark you dick suckers.

Surfaces came through for actual illustrator-style artists when Apple just wanted to sell more crap for more money.

I love my Microsoft Surface Pro.

There, that's for you Microsoft, because you actually listen to my stupid complaints when Apple told me to go fark myself.
 
2017-08-12 07:07:54 PM  

FLMountainMan: Love the zune.  Still have mine.


I have a Zune [non-HD] and a Surface RT. The RT died last year, the Zune is still going strong. Using it for MP3 music and podcasts.
 
2017-08-12 08:41:46 PM  
I like my Surface Pro 2. Not sure about the laptop models
 
2017-08-12 08:44:19 PM  

drjekel_mrhyde: Shazam999: drjekel_mrhyde: If it's not a hardware issue, most tech savvy people can fix the shiat(software, bad drivers) on their own, but pay subscribers(these are their surveyors) to Consumer Reports aren't tech savy.
/I know no one under 45 that WOULD PAY to take a farking survey.
//You're better off going to Reddit or a tech forum than looking at anything tech related on CR

Yeah but if that was the case then unreliability would be high for all tech products.

Disappointing.  Ah well.

Apple https://www.theverge.com/2017/1/12/14258594/consumer-reports-apple-mac​-book-pro-battery-life-recommendation


Sooooo... You agree with me?
 
hej [TotalFark]
2017-08-12 09:06:31 PM  
Is it literally impossible for Farkers to have a single thread without mentioning Trump?
 
2017-08-12 09:17:02 PM  
I've had a surface pro 3 for close to three years, no issues other than keys falling off the type cover.
 
2017-08-12 09:40:44 PM  
tctechcrunch2011.files.wordpress.comView Full Size
 
2017-08-12 10:00:07 PM  

hej: Is it literally impossible for Farkers to have a single thread without mentioning Trump?


Literally, no...
 
2017-08-12 10:16:56 PM  
At the office, we finally banned them. 200% failure rate. Bought 8, ended up getting each replaced. Replacements failed, sent those back. Gave everyone a choice of HP or Dell, 2 people insisted going Macbook Pro.
 
2017-08-12 10:28:15 PM  
Yeah, remember how they were popular with CNN?

cdn.cultofmac.comView Full Size
 
2017-08-12 11:10:36 PM  
I'm not too amused, given that my Surface Pro 3 did exactly what Consumer Reports talks about roughly 2 years into owning it. The battery died while in the docking station and took the whole machine down with it. Microsoft's answer was to buy a new one, or pay half the price of a new one to fix it.

It's a shame, because I love my Surface. I wasn't too happy about the failure, though.
 
2017-08-13 01:20:02 AM  
I'm pretty sure we started with this presumption but go ahead.
 
2017-08-13 02:47:51 AM  
Is this the thread where all the Apple fanbois shiat on Microsoft for being successful?
 
2017-08-13 06:03:45 AM  

Rueened: Is this the thread where all the Apple fanbois shiat on Microsoft for being successful?


Paul Thurrott is an Apple fanboy?

You know how I know you're delusional?
 
2017-08-13 08:14:04 AM  
2 years? More like 2 weeks for most issues. Awful, awful products. My friends company went all-in on them and fully backpedaled after 6 months.
 
2017-08-13 08:18:30 AM  

realmolo: We bought a bunch of them at work for the execs.

They are EASILY the most unreliable "notebooks" we've ever had. It's ridiculous. Endless bizarre issues. Lately we switched to the Dell equivalent of a "Surface", and they're FAR better.


Our experience with them at customers has been pretty solid.  No hardware issues and apart from the occasional update locking problem no software ones either.  I still have my original Surface 1 that I bought on clearance and it works great.  It's like a brick by comparison to the newer models, but it's been very reliable.
 
2017-08-13 08:44:26 AM  

Close2TheEdge: Our experience with them at customers has been pretty solid. No hardware issues and apart from the occasional update locking problem no software ones either.


Paul Thurrott documented a litany of very common problems with the Surface Pro and Surface Book in an article linked from TFA.

>Ongoing Intel display driver crashes, which in many cases Blue Screens/restarts the device, even after an issued fix. (And that fix caused boot problems on Surface Book where the power button stops working.) Rampant power management issues that cause "hot bag" issues and drains the battery because the device never actually goes to sleep. Surface Detach issues on the Surface Book, where the screen can't/won't detach. USB bus issues (which may or may not be tied to Surface Detach; it's hard to tell because everything is interconnected on these SoC-based PC designs). On and on it goes.
 
2017-08-13 11:54:18 AM  

hej: Is it literally impossible for Farkers to have a single thread without mentioning Trump?


"Trumpwin" is the new "Godwin"
 
2017-08-13 04:51:08 PM  
The company I work for does a lot of development Microsoft type technology, and each of us is given a work laptop.  A lot of us went with various models of Surface, including myself.  When I first got my Surface Pro 3, I thought it was amazing.  But I just kept on having a bunch of weird problems.  I wasn't alone though, a lot of my co-workers did too.

For example, some times, if I shut down or restart my Surface, it won't reboot.  It will hang before it reaches 'starting windows'.  Once every 2-3 months this happens, and it can take anywhere from 30 minutes of hitting the power off and on before it'll work to an entire day. Then, eventually, it'll work and work fine for a few months.

Now almost nobody gets newer Surface models, based on the issues we've all run into.
 
2017-08-13 06:46:01 PM  

Shazam999: drjekel_mrhyde: If it's not a hardware issue, most tech savvy people can fix the shiat(software, bad drivers) on their own, but pay subscribers(these are their surveyors) to Consumer Reports aren't tech savy.
/I know no one under 45 that WOULD PAY to take a farking survey.
//You're better off going to Reddit or a tech forum than looking at anything tech related on CR

Yeah but if that was the case then unreliability would be high for all tech products.

Disappointing.  Ah well.


Like when Apple got a "not recommended" a year or two ago until they paid up for the positive review?

All this stuff is paid. Even Gartner.
 
2017-08-13 06:55:47 PM  
 
2017-08-13 07:13:32 PM  

Bullseyed: Shazam999: drjekel_mrhyde: If it's not a hardware issue, most tech savvy people can fix the shiat(software, bad drivers) on their own, but pay subscribers(these are their surveyors) to Consumer Reports aren't tech savy.
/I know no one under 45 that WOULD PAY to take a farking survey.
//You're better off going to Reddit or a tech forum than looking at anything tech related on CR

Yeah but if that was the case then unreliability would be high for all tech products.

Disappointing.  Ah well.

Like when Apple got a "not recommended" a year or two ago until they paid up for the positive review?

All this stuff is paid. Even Gartner.


Who pays for the crap you write?
 
2017-08-13 07:22:41 PM  
I am posting this from my surface pro 3 so I am gettting a ki■◙φÖ-ƒ² H Ü£Ç
 
2017-08-13 08:45:54 PM  

TWX: As for the cost, there are two schools of thought. One is to buy the expensive model that runs for 5+ years (which happens to be the method I subscribe-to) and the other is to buy the cheapo-model that does what one needs right now, and to replace every year or two. I don't like migrating from computer to computer, I find it tedious and since I would prefer to use Linux I have to be wary of unsupported hardware, but if one tends to lose or break computers then the cheap-frequent model may make more sense, if one has to step-back to a previous model sitting on the shelf gathering dust one can, or one can afford to inexpensively replace the broken/lost one at any time.


I buy the one that works for what I need and use it until it breaks.  Yeah I can't always play the latest fflapy candy killer zombie game, and websites with a million scripts might never load, but my needs are few. English gets no more complex, my bank account will still be able to be balanced with the power of an 8086, and I can still edit the occasional photo.  I don't need stupid window animations, live wallpaper, voice and facial recognition, and goddamned sound effects every time I click something.
 
hej [TotalFark]
2017-08-13 10:45:33 PM  

hashtag.acronym: hej: Is it literally impossible for Farkers to have a single thread without mentioning Trump?

"Trumpwin" is the new "Godwin"


Agreed. Im relatively sure I coined the same phase not too long ago.
 
2017-08-14 03:18:42 AM  
My Surface Pro 3 with the i-7 cpu is a pile of garbage. The keyboard sucks. The computer constantly overheats (NW climate) and it can't even handle 1080p video.

Biggest waste of $1800 I've ever spent.
 
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