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(Daily Sparks Tribune)   Magificent example of corporate greed: After couple of months on the job, Bank of America exec getting $25 million severance as he resigns to pursue "other interests"   (charlotte.com) divider line 293
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13670 clicks; posted to Main » on 25 May 2004 at 5:42 PM (10 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2004-05-25 07:14:54 PM  
jessew

Jesus its just an EXAMPLE. Fine. Make it $20K. They could have worked for just under a month on his severance and he saved the comany $300 million.

Good.

On.

Him.

And the shareholders and remaining employees also win in this arrangement. It isn't just between the good old boys.

My question remains:

Should the new bank retain all the old employees of both banks and double it's fees?

And don't give me some crap about lowering executive salaries. I already showed you the math above.

Should the new bank retain all the old employees of both banks and double it's fees?
 
2004-05-25 07:14:54 PM  
Right, executive and shareholders make the killing, and the employees get f*cked.

Allow me to quote myself:

"Golden parachutes for the few, anvil parachutes for the rest."
 
2004-05-25 07:15:13 PM  
As Jim Hightower once said:

"The only thing you find in the middle of the road is dead skunks and yellow stripes."
 
2004-05-25 07:15:37 PM  
[can i have a go at guess the wacky thingymajig to blame dubya for? ]

Go ahead, i'm sure not going to stop you. I might make fun of you later tho.

I think the best part of WMD/Iraq threads are all the conspiracy theories.

/end threadjack.
 
2004-05-25 07:17:27 PM  
That's an absurd question, and you know it, feep.
But I guess you feel safe behind it.

No, BOA should fire who it needs to fire, but the leadership of the failed bank should have the integrity to 'go down with the ship.' Instead, they make out like a bandit.
 
2004-05-25 07:17:36 PM  
Why should I? Those are GIVENS. Should this information be hung over our heads as employees?

NO. It's their investment. I'd still be making 25,000. No way you're gonna tell me I'm making 40.

And it isn't like said company can't WRITE IT OFF on their TAXES, or receive some other kind of corporate break.

Sorry, I just don't buy into your vision, and it's disquieting to me that YOU do. Are you in some kind of similar position of power, Sid that you make such apologies?


Your lack of understanding is EPIC.

They take all the risk, but aren't allowed any fortune?

That's fair.

And I also think you aren't clear on the difference between gross and net profit.

Again... adult education... naah... far be it from the American voter to be edu-ma-cated.
 
2004-05-25 07:17:42 PM  
Nanoo, if the employees own shares they have the right to be in on that decision. If not, just like just about everyone else on the planet Earth, you are employed at will. If the Earth was run for the benefit of employees, we would still have the Pony Express delivering our mail.
 
2004-05-25 07:17:47 PM  
Your former bank president are belong to us!

/did i miss anything important?
 
2004-05-25 07:18:33 PM  
Ahhhh, Jim Hightower - now , there's the voice of reason!
 
2004-05-25 07:20:52 PM  
That's an absurd question, and you know it, feep.
But I guess you feel safe behind it.

No, BOA should fire who it needs to fire, but the leadership of the failed bank should have the integrity to 'go down with the ship.' Instead, they make out like a bandit.


Hell it is. It's absolutely relavent. 12,500 people got fired. Time will tell if it's "who it needs to fire" but I'd bet it won't hurt.

Fleet did NOT fail. It got bought. For the shareholders (ie: risk-takers) it was absolutely the opposite of failure. That executive deserved a reward from the owners of the company.

I'm sorry people got laid off. That sucks. But it's also progress. Again:

Should the new bank have kept both sets of employees and charged double?
 
2004-05-25 07:21:05 PM  
2004-05-25 07:17:36 PM feepness

No, I UNDERSTAND it. I just don't AGREE with it.

Again, I ask. Why have morals at all?

Why aren't we just issued with a 45 at birth and kill our way to the top...?

They take all the risk, but aren't allowed any fortune?

That's fair


NO---That's DEBATABLE.

I don't AGREE with the ethics. I find this kind of paradigm APPALLING.
 
2004-05-25 07:22:47 PM  
Bob_Laublaw

How did anything I say relate to partisan politics? I simply said that in my opinion a country like America where the citizens expect so much prosperity, and believe that all you have to do is work hard and you'll get it, will face very serious problems, perhaps including a revolution 50-100 years out IF things don't change. My opinion may be worthless, but its not based on partisan inclinations or pure ignorance. And again, I'm sorry about the rude comment. I just came from the WMD flamewar and my sensibilities have been drifting off.
 
2004-05-25 07:23:14 PM  
No, I UNDERSTAND it. I just don't AGREE with it.

Again, I ask. Why have morals at all?

Why aren't we just issued with a 45 at birth and kill our way to the top...?


If you do not understand the difference between killing people and firing them then we do not have a basis for further conversation.
 
2004-05-25 07:26:07 PM  
well i loved your claims of my inability to grasp reality when positing that the wmd (singular, derisory) could have been planted by the cia

i was running on no sleep in lots of hours, but it was my fault, i completely forgot dubya's daddy had been director of the cia - i know i never would have suggested the theory had i remembered because that makes it so ridiculous, well no-one would've believed it could ever, ever happen

but that aside, let's look at blaming something "wacky" on dubya - err 9/11


why not start at the beginning?

from tsg

Under pressure from the September 11 commission, the White House today declassified and released an intelligence digest given to President George W. Bush weeks before the 2001 terrorist attacks. The confidential President's Daily Brief (PDB) for August 6, 2001 contained a two-page section entitled "Bin Ladin Determined to Strike in US," and refers to possible hijacking attempts by Osama bin Laden disciples and the existence of about 70 FBI investigations into alleged al-Qaeda cells operating within the United States. The August 6 PDB, an excerpt from which you'll find below, was presented to Bush while he vacationed at his ranch in Crawford, Texas. The digest is prepared by the Central Intelligence Agency, an official from which briefs the president on the report's contents. While Bush critics have described the August 6 PDB as a warning of an impending al-Qaeda attack, Condoleezza Rice, Bush's national security adviser, testified Thursday that the document contained "historical information based on old reporting. There was no new threat information."

how strong was the us air defence on 9/11 again?
 
2004-05-25 07:26:55 PM  
Shareholders plus accounts holders at Back of Ass bank should make a pretty large class-action suit.

Then spome lawyer with walk away with $20mil, leaving $5mil for those who actually got ripped off.
 
2004-05-25 07:27:04 PM  
[Why aren't we just issued with a 45 at birth and kill our way to the top...?]

There you go again, thinking the world owes you something.
 
2004-05-25 07:27:04 PM  
whidbey65


let us contrast your previous words...

If there's anyone who should have gotten a kick in the ass from the door WITHOUT ANY SEVERANCE, it's this guy.

They could have HIRED someone in the interim for HALF that amount who would have "put them on track."


...with your more current ones...
Uhh, I said no such thing. I don't know where you're getting this... (concerning no possible justification for layoffs)

and this little gem...
Sorry, this analogy doesn't work...

All the players here have said digits intact. If there's any money being lost, it's a drop in the bucket compared to how much BOA/Fleet is slogging around.

They should have fired the guy. With NO severance package. And if they REALLY were worried about some kind of traceable money flow, again, I say, they could have hired some troubleshooter in the interim.


Now, my analogy concerned that it was better to cut some jobs, fingers if you will, than lose the one controlling the company. And in that way my analogy does work.

You keep insisting that he should have been fired no matter what. You also seem to be basing this on the fact that he laid off the employees. How did you not imply that you felt they were unjustifiable? No matter what he should be fired for them?

Instead you feel they should have hired a 'troubleshooter' to take care of things. Fact of the matter is they weren't in trouble and already had someone keeping them on course during the merger who understood his company far more intricately than any newcomer could have.

Unfortunately you feel a strong negative emotional reaction to this and are not considering it logically, so you can't be convinced otherwise.
 
2004-05-25 07:28:32 PM  
My opinion may be worthless, but its not based on partisan inclinations or pure ignorance.

Your opinions have the worth of mine and everyone else's here.

My assumption is that your comments are based upon concern for your country and the folks within who perpetually struggle without advancement.
 
2004-05-25 07:28:57 PM  
I didn't say we needed to run companies for the sole benefit of employees. I'm just saying that it would be nice to run companies for the benefit of the USA. But, companies are run for the benefit of the owners and managers, because owners and managers are the people who run the State and Federal governments, and they make the rules about how companies are run: for the benefit, the sole benefit, of themselves and their buddies.

I'm convinced that this is the opinion of the majority of citizens in the US. You may not like it, but what you do and do not like may become irrelevant if we keep this course.
 
2004-05-25 07:29:56 PM  
If you think someone should make 25 million dollars for NOT working, don't call yourself a capitalist. Making 25 million dollars for doing a job, if that's what the market will bear, is alright. Making 25 million dollars on something you've created is alright. Making 25 million dollars from the sale of something you own is alright. But 25 million dollars as severance? fark off, man.
 
m00
2004-05-25 07:32:55 PM  
2004-05-25 06:07:51 PM Weaver95

You miss the point entirely

If it was "nice and legal" to hang blacks, doesn't make it right. Doesn't mean nobody should have a problem with it. And doesn't mean blacks shouldnt demand equality (and whites demand it for them).

You seem to be saying "it's legal? what's your problem?"

I'm allowed to have problems with things that are legal. That's the purpose of democracy.
 
2004-05-25 07:33:36 PM  
"Should the new bank have kept both sets of employees and charged double?"

Why not? They're gonna jack up their fees anyway.
 
2004-05-25 07:33:37 PM  
Agreement on Fark despite my rude behavior?

Wow. Thank you Bob. Good night!
 
2004-05-25 07:34:29 PM  
Sir_Farkalot

May I then suggest not working at, owning shares of, or opening an account at, BofA.

I know this may be difficult. But really, do your best and you can avoid this horrible, horrible tragedy.

Good luck.
 
2004-05-25 07:34:32 PM  
How is it that serving more people with fewer employees is a bad thing, nanoo? Efficiency IS for the benefit of the USA.
 
2004-05-25 07:36:11 PM  
2004-05-25 04:39:12 PM BigTuna


We must keep telling ourselves that this is a readjustment in the market and the resulting increase in efficiency will be better overall for everyone.

We must continue, because if we stop we'll be in prison for choking these corporate dirtbag motherfarkers and the libertarians who defend them.

As a mostly libertarian-minded individual, I take umbrage with the notion that people should be economically literate to understand that this article is about freedom.
/Mel Gibson inpersonation.

It's about freedom to merge, freedom to stop employing people, freedom to make more money without having to share it with people, etc. As far as DEMANDing equality, everyone has the chance to become this guy and make 25Million for quitting a job to move on to more challenges. Sure, not everyone has a socioeconomically equal chance to become this guy, but that is not what is intended by those who think even slightly critically about what equality of opportunity entails.
 
2004-05-25 07:40:41 PM  
I answered that question, feep. My answere was "no".

Sure Fleet failed.
It was assimilated into the collective.
Resistance was futile.

But, on paper it looks like a success.
Investors make money, managers go on a long vacation.

Meanwhile, back at the ranch, a bunch of people, who were just making enough money to be able to afford to continue coming to work, are now wondering what the hell they're going to do to keep body and soul together.
 
2004-05-25 07:41:06 PM  
whidbey65

Sorry, I just don't buy into your vision, and it's disquieting to me that YOU do. Are you in some kind of similar position of power, Sid that you make such apologies?

Not yet, but I plan to be, and I have ambition. So instead of whining and biatching like a little kid I plan to do something about the fact that I'm not a millionaire. Chances are I will never make it. But I won't give up. And I'm not apologizing for anything. I wouldn't feel the need to apologize even assuming there were something to apologize for.

Now I admit that I am as much of an idealist as you are, perhaps even more. But I try to idealize within what could be and not what I could only wish were true.

You see, I care about people and I am generally compassionate, but in order to help others as much as possible I need to have influence and authority, and one doesn't find that sitting around the hippie circle listening to Hendrix and Marley, no matter how good (some of) their music might be.

I also accept that I am more intelligent than most people. Not all, but a great many. I also possess the ability to persuade and influence, and I'm slowly honing my leadership capabilities. I am taking steps to make myself successful, and that involves knowing how others think, particularly those I will be interacting with if I am ever in some higher executive position. But I'm far from close-minded. I've read Capital, at least, the first 2 and 1/2 volumes, it got too fragmented for me after that. Mao's work was also interesting, but his non-partisan poetry was much better, especially what he wrote during the long march.

I admit that things like this merger might look terribly unfair, but I find it even easier to admit that fair does not exist.
 
2004-05-25 07:41:17 PM  
Can someone on here protesting this tell me how or why they think themselves or anyone else is owed a job?
 
2004-05-25 07:41:37 PM  
"Should the new bank have kept both sets of employees and charged double?"

Why not? They're gonna jack up their fees anyway.


Wow.
 
2004-05-25 07:42:27 PM  
[If it was "nice and legal" to hang blacks, doesn't make it right.]

Except that this situation isn't anything even remotely like a racially motivated assault. False analogy #1.

[ Doesn't mean nobody should have a problem with it.]

You have as many (or as few) problems with it as you like - but there's nothing wrong, illegal or immoral to get in a lather about.

[And doesn't mean blacks shouldnt demand equality (and whites demand it for them).]

Again, there's NOTHING here to do with race. False analogy #2.

[I'm allowed to have problems with things that are legal.]

The first true statement you've made so far. You can dislike it all you want. You can like it all you want. But unless you're a shareholder, there's nothing you can do about it. And really, unless you're a shareholder all you've got are opinions.

[That's the purpose of democracy.]

So, aside from the logic errors, false analogies and sloppy reasoning do you have anything else to say on the matter?
 
2004-05-25 07:43:33 PM  
So, we keep turning up the efficiency?
How high can that go?

Efficiency at what?
Making big, black bottom lines for the investor?

I'm beginning to think Jesus was right about moneylending.
 
2004-05-25 07:47:37 PM  
Meanwhile, back at the ranch, a bunch of people, who were just making enough money to be able to afford to continue coming to work, are now wondering what the hell they're going to do to keep body and soul together.

Short version:

Find another job.

Long version:

Find another job where they are useful enough not to get sh*tcanned.

Next question?

Life sucks. Sometimes you get fired. In fact, you will probably lose your job at some point. Plan for it. Save up instead of buying that gas guzzler. No, you don't need another disney video. Hmmm, maybe you should eat at home instead of out five times a week.

And don't think I'm some sort of rich idealist. I'm self-employed and I got CANCER two years ago. I had health insurance. Self-paid. It's been hell but it's gone and I didn't expect a handout from ANYONE. And didn't need one either.

Jesus this kind of crap seriously makes me want to vomit.
 
2004-05-25 07:48:28 PM  
Nanoo, who knows how high it can go? The average person now leads a longer, more healthful, materially richer life than people of 200, 100, or even 50 years ago, and somehow we've managed to not have 95% unemployment. No one makes typewriters anymore, causing everyone in those factories to be fired. Operators do not manually switch phone calls anymore, leading to a substantial reduction in their numbers. Buggymakers are out of work all over the place.

SO WHAT? Those people move on to do different, MORE PRODUCTIVE things. The overall standard of living slowly rises. Humanity progresses.
 
2004-05-25 07:50:32 PM  
I don't think these employees deserve their jobs.
If Fleet was too weak to survive being absorbed by a bigger competator then the company, and its employees, failed. I just don't thing the leader should get rich from the death and dismemberment of the company he led to ruin.
 
2004-05-25 07:50:32 PM  
So, we keep turning up the efficiency?
How high can that go?


Well, we've nearly maximized the potential for silicon as a semi-conductor in computing, and now scientists are working on laser-based systems to go even further, so we'll see when we get to a photon per bit.

But I'll tell you one thing, 100 years ago if there had suddenly been 6 billion people around, most of them would have starved. Now only those who can't afford to reproduce in the first place are in unfortunate places like Africa.
 
2004-05-25 07:51:18 PM  
"He worked at Fleet for a long time. "

3 yrs dude. he worked at the previous company for 3 yrs before bofa merged.

so tell me, who in this world is actually worth $8.4 million a yr. ?(plus his regular salary pay)?! nobody.

 
2004-05-25 07:57:51 PM  
2004-05-25 07:13:42 PM Nanookanano
Why do hard-core capitalists always assume that the only alternative to capitalism is socialism? Are those really the only two economic systems that ever did or ever will exist? I find that hard to believe.


There are three political economies according philosophy. They are capitalism, socialism, and communism. Socialism is consistent with oligarachy. Communism is consistent with democracy. Capitalism is consistent with the republic, the thing of the people.
 
2004-05-25 07:58:55 PM  
In the merger, Bank of America is eliminating 12,500 jobs

tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick... BOOOM!

(Lookin' forward to the days when these kinds of mergers just aren't safe...)

Ya know, it used to be that layoffs were a sign that a business was failing, not a way for Satan's children to cannabalize the middle classes.

Good on him. All you who are biatching about it are obvioulsy not smart enough and/or driven to be a CEO. If you were you would realize this is just the way it works!

You're an idiot. You assume that because people believe in corporate responsibility rather than winner-take-all looting, they're slackers? You're a moron. This is amazing.

He should be commended for getting rid of 12,500 jobs. If they are gone, maybe they weren't necessary and those 12,500 people can do something besides suck up extra fees.

Yes, he should be given a farking medal for creating so much unemployment and havoc in people's lives. Good ol' disloyalty... gotta love it.

(I actually would like to award him a medal; it would have radioisotopes in it, though.)


Its simple supply and demand. Bank of America wouldn't pay their exec. $25mil if they didn't have to.

You think they do it because they like him?

You think you're the first person to come up with the idea that if you pay people less, the whole company keeps more money?

OF COURSE that's true. But there's no one out there that would do the job for $250k. (I sure as hell wouldn't).


That's precisely what CEO pay is so high; because CEOs are friends with the decision makers.

And why do you say there's no one who would be a business leader for $250k? In the 1950s, that was high for a CEO (even including inflation). By the way, the average business owner makes about $110k, not in the millions.

Simple logic dictates that no company is going to last long if they overpay ANYONE.

Wrong. Not if they stay profitable. Most corporations overpay the few with connections to the decision-makers (CEOs, COOs, etc.) because the 7- and 8- digit salaries are comparatively a small portion of revenues. Note also that most American execs believe that businesses exist primarily to serve them and have no problem with looting to get these salaries.

If I ever lost health insurance or pension because of being downsized, just so some exec could line his pockets, I'd make sure the farker didn't get away from it.
 
2004-05-25 08:00:51 PM  
" But there's no one out there that would do the job for $250k"

*cough*cough*.... and you think it's worth $5.2million/yr ?! please!

"April 1, he entered into an employment agreement that gives him a $2 million bonus plus another $10.5 million, double his base salary and bonus"

he was already making $5.25million a yr. (hint, "double his salary and bonus" = $10.5million, divide that in half since they say "double")

 
2004-05-25 08:04:46 PM  

...as I read on....

"Bank of America's true engines of growth -- consumer and commercial banking, which generate about 70 percent of the revenue -- did not fall under his leadership."

so.... 70% of the growth he had absolutly nothing to do with... yea, he was worth it

*rolls eyes*

 
2004-05-25 08:12:53 PM  
Sid and Jake, you say that like these are good things.
I guess they are . . for capitalism.

Yes; computers, automated phone systems, automobiles; these things make work more efficient, so more devices can be made in order to make work more efficient, so . .

And, the average is that people live longer.
Partly this is due to the reduction in stillborn and newborn deaths. But, yes, more people will live to be 90 who would have died at 60. Most of those survivors will not have enough money to live on.

So Sid, you're for the overpopulation of the planet.
How interesting.

And John, once again; productive for whom?
Cheap commercial goods don't make my life better.
Inane TV shows don't either.
As for quality of life; pollution, obesity, allergies, AIDS, crime, overcrowding; such things don't affect the well-to-do, but they're a small and shrinking minority. For most people, life is not substantally better than it was in past generations.

"Jesus this kind of crap seriously makes me want to vomit."
That's a straight-up Pavlovian response. You were well conditioned by the anti-red propaganda of the Fifties and Sixties. Salute the Flag and pledge allegiance, and your queasiness will pass.
 
2004-05-25 08:13:48 PM  
I left Bofa a long time ago. There seemed to be no way to aviod getting charged fees no matter how many requirements were met. Guess I know why now.

This is nothing compared to what Dick Grasso did however.
 
2004-05-25 08:14:45 PM  
To all those patting this guy's back, I sincerely hope you get downsized some time, or at least a close family member does, preferably a spouse.
 
2004-05-25 08:14:45 PM  
Oh, he runs things and he intends
To keep it that-a-way
What's good for General Bullmoose
Is good for the U.S.A
--"Little Abner"
 
2004-05-25 08:18:34 PM  
BLAME BUSH... SOMEBODY QUICK

UNLESS SOMEONE DID I REALLY DIDN'T
WANT TOO READ ALL THE WHINNY BLAH BLAH BLAH
 
2004-05-25 08:29:44 PM  
Thanks irrazione.
It's been a long time since Economics 101.

Is this common theory, or is there a specific author or title to which you could refer me?
 
2004-05-25 08:31:08 PM  
Thought I'd post this eye of a needle for you rich boys in here. Awful small, but a camel would be much harder to get thru there.....
 
2004-05-25 08:42:47 PM  
And John, once again; productive for whom?
Cheap commercial goods don't make my life better.
Inane TV shows don't either.
As for quality of life; pollution, obesity, allergies, AIDS, crime, overcrowding; such things don't affect the well-to-do, but they're a small and shrinking minority. For most people, life is not substantally better than it was in past generations.


I see. You're insane. If you're not hungry, cold, or afraid of being beaten, you're a hell of a lot better off then you're ancestors.

Wake up.
 
2004-05-25 08:42:57 PM  
I had to cash a check one time and the BoA was the only thing near me. Went in, told them I wanted a new account and what the min account balance was.

Poor girl tried to sell me all kinds of junk. Told them I wanted the least ammount of services required to deposit the 20 bucks or whatever and take my cash with me.

She had to get a manager.

Freakin weird. It's like they think they aren't working for you, or something.
 
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