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(Atlanta Journal Constitution)   CSX gets railroaded   ( buzz.blog.ajc.com) divider line
    More: Followup, CSX Transportation, member Sarah Jones, Chatham County jury, Pleading, Jury trial, Sarah Elizabeth Jones, Director Randall Miller, unauthorized production work  
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9241 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 Jul 2017 at 10:44 AM (13 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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ZAZ [TotalFark]
2017-07-18 08:50:29 AM  
Where I live the law says if you're trespassing on railroad tracks what happens to you is your own fault. Courts have found ways to disregard the law and dig into those deep pockets. Juries love handing out big damage awards against railroads.
 
2017-07-18 09:00:07 AM  

ZAZ: Where I live the law says if you're trespassing on railroad tracks what happens to you is your own fault. Courts have found ways to disregard the law and dig into those deep pockets. Juries love handing out big damage awards against railroads.


from TFA:
The production did not have permission to film on the train trestle outside Jesup.

Yeah this is BS.  They were in fact trespassing.  IF YOU ARE NOT A TRAIN, STAY OFF THE GOTDAMN TRACKS!
img.fark.net
 
2017-07-18 09:30:54 AM  
Total bullshiat. We cant seem to get lawsuit reform for this obvious shiat. Meanwhile, poor Joe Schmo is saddled with forced arbitration anytime he buys anything.
 
2017-07-18 09:46:52 AM  
CSX needs better lawyers.  Up here, 10/15 years ago, a BNSF train hit a carload of teenagers (who had been drinking, though it wasn't clear if the driver was impaired or not).  Witnesses said the gate arms malfunctioned. Amazingly, the data tapes from that crossing disappeared.  Sorry for your loss, your kids were drunk and stupid....

While these morons get a settlement.
 
2017-07-18 09:56:27 AM  
That said, this trial disclosed a number of exceptionally poor judgements and ignored opportunities by CSX Transportation to prevent this tragedy. Frankly, I believe that the evidence in this trial indicated that CSX has systemic issues that need corrected.

I'd be very curious to know what those issues were...also I assume this will be appealed.

Elizabeth and I have spent the last 3 plus years wanting to understand how our daughter, Sarah Elizabeth Jones, tragically lost her life .

Let me help you out there. She got hit by a farking train.
 
2017-07-18 10:08:05 AM  

hobnail: That said, this trial disclosed a number of exceptionally poor judgements and ignored opportunities by CSX Transportation to prevent this tragedy. Frankly, I believe that the evidence in this trial indicated that CSX has systemic issues that need corrected.

I'd be very curious to know what those issues were...also I assume this will be appealed.

Elizabeth and I have spent the last 3 plus years wanting to understand how our daughter, Sarah Elizabeth Jones, tragically lost her life .

Let me help you out there. She got hit by a farking train.


I'd like to know what CSX could have done as well.  There's no way the engineer would see someone on the tracks and not go into emergency stop.  Depending on the length of the train and speed even a full on emergency stop could take a mile.  There is one way this could have been avoided of course, don't trespass on the damn train tracks.
 
2017-07-18 10:24:13 AM  
This decision needs to be overturned.
 
2017-07-18 10:27:00 AM  

nekom: hobnail: 
I'd like to know what CSX could have done as well.  There's no way the engineer would see someone on the tracks and not go into emergency stop.  Depending on the length of the train and speed even a full on emergency stop could take a mile.  There is one way this could have been avoided of course, don't trespass on the damn train tracks.


I assume it has more to do with limiting access to the tracks. Although I thought "attractive nuisance" only applied to children.  (not a lawyer).
 
2017-07-18 10:38:50 AM  
hobnail:
I assume it has more to do with limiting access to the tracks. Although I thought "attractive nuisance" only applied to children.  (not a lawyer).

CSX has about 21,000 route miles of track.  They can't fence it all in.  I do have sympathy for the poor woman but I find it hard to blame the railroad for this sort of thing.  Trains are loud on purpose and they ONLY go on tracks.  Stay the hell away from those tracks, it's common sense.  Or at least if you MUST trespass keep your bearings about you and have an easy out if you hear a train coming.  They don't sneak up on you.
 
2017-07-18 10:48:40 AM  

Old_Chief_Scott: This decision needs to be overturned.


Yea from earlier news stories CSX repeatedly refused permission and warned them not to do it. The family went after the railroad because the railroad had more money than the director.
 
2017-07-18 10:49:36 AM  

nekom: hobnail:
I assume it has more to do with limiting access to the tracks. Although I thought "attractive nuisance" only applied to children.  (not a lawyer).

CSX has about 21,000 route miles of track.  They can't fence it all in.  I do have sympathy for the poor woman but I find it hard to blame the railroad for this sort of thing.  Trains are loud on purpose and they ONLY go on tracks.  Stay the hell away from those tracks, it's common sense.  Or at least if you MUST trespass keep your bearings about you and have an easy out if you hear a train coming.  They don't sneak up on you.


img.fark.net
 
2017-07-18 10:50:42 AM  
Gosh, they sure save a lot of money by not filming in California. Except when they don't by violating basic worker safety laws.
 
2017-07-18 10:50:47 AM  
img.fark.net
 
2017-07-18 10:55:32 AM  
Trains might not be able to leave the tracks, but railway companies go out of their way to be tremendously douchy at the slightest opportunity. Never had a pleasant interaction with any of them. Hope CSX eats a big old bag of Dick's. If this wasn't their fault, it's payback for all the times it was but they got away with it on arcane 1800's laws that grant them legal superpowers.
 
2017-07-18 10:55:54 AM  
Terrible decision. Not only should the verdict be overturned but CSX should have their courts costs paid by the scumbag family.
 
2017-07-18 10:56:21 AM  
Sorry, but it's impossible to tell where a train is coming from.
 
2017-07-18 10:58:35 AM  
oh look, people who don't know what they are talking about getting mad just because they see dollar signs

The railroad was only 35% liable. The article says the suit alleged steps CSX could have taken but failed to. What were they? Of course it doesn't say, not like that would be extremely useful or anything
 
2017-07-18 11:02:16 AM  

Korzine: Terrible decision. Not only should the verdict be overturned but CSX should have their courts costs paid by the scumbag family.


Really?   The family?  So you absolve the production company and director that set up on the train tracks?
 
2017-07-18 11:04:39 AM  

hobnail: CSX needs better lawyers.  Up here, 10/15 years ago, a BNSF train hit a carload of teenagers (who had been drinking, though it wasn't clear if the driver was impaired or not).  Witnesses said the gate arms malfunctioned. Amazingly, the data tapes from that crossing disappeared.  Sorry for your loss, your kids were drunk and stupid....

While these morons get a settlement.


When I was a kid a Chessie System train (CSX predecessor) hit a poorly parked car while operating on tracks in a city street.  Not only was the car destroyed (no injuries) but the railroad successfully sued the owner of the car for lost time/delay of commerce.
 
2017-07-18 11:05:07 AM  

nekom: hobnail:
I assume it has more to do with limiting access to the tracks. Although I thought "attractive nuisance" only applied to children.  (not a lawyer).

CSX has about 21,000 route miles of track.  They can't fence it all in.  I do have sympathy for the poor woman but I find it hard to blame the railroad for this sort of thing.  Trains are loud on purpose and they ONLY go on tracks.  Stay the hell away from those tracks, it's common sense.  Or at least if you MUST trespass keep your bearings about you and have an easy out if you hear a train coming.  They don't sneak up on you.


hey the director of the movie, who was also liable and went to jail didn't tell the crew "oh yeah we don't actually have permission to be here like you are all assuming"
 
2017-07-18 11:06:10 AM  
CSX should have been given damages for the cleanup.  It sucks to have to do any business in a southern state - they claim to be "pro business" but their juries always give away huge verdicts on bullshiat claims.  I think it's their largest economic generator, now that slavery's over.
 
2017-07-18 11:07:34 AM  

johnny_vegas: Korzine: Terrible decision. Not only should the verdict be overturned but CSX should have their courts costs paid by the scumbag family.

Really?   The family?  So you absolve the production company and director that set up on the train tracks?


The production company bears the majority of responsibility.  Of course, these days any douchebag with a C100 and a bunch of redrock micro shiat hanging off of it is a "production company" so there's zero chance they would be able to properly compensate these people.
 
2017-07-18 11:08:49 AM  
How does a train sneak up on someone?
 
2017-07-18 11:09:29 AM  
I found a little more information from Deadline Hollywood, of all places.

The civil trial against railroad company CSX brought by the family of Sarah Jones is now in the hands of the jury, following closing arguments this morning. At issue is whether CSX was legally liable in the death of the 27 year-old camera assistant by not following their own company policy and a failure to report that there were people aligning the tracks. Also at issues is why the train did not apply its brakes until five seconds after the impact on the bridge. Jones was killed and six others injured during the filming of Midnight Rider on Feb. 20, 2014.
In closing arguments, Jones' attorney told the jury that CSX was trying to blame the entire thing on director Randall Miller who pleaded guilty and served a year in jail for criminal trespassing and involuntary manslaughter, but that CSX is trying to shrug all responsibility from itself.
Two trains passed through the train trestle the first day of filming Midnight Riderbefore the third train plowed through the set going 57 mph. The CSX attorney countered saying that the other two train conductors said nothing appeared out of ordinary and they had seen people on the side of tracks before. In court, they had referred to them as "rail fans."

They also said that it wasn't the train that killed Sarah Jones, rather she was killed by shrapnel from the metal hospital bed prop that Miller and his crew set up on the tracks illegally.
The CSX attorney also said that the emergency brake wasn't applied because the conductor and engineer were afraid of a derailment. The lawyer said they couldn't see anything clearly from 2,000 feet away, and, by the time they saw the crew on the tracks and trestle, it wouldn't have helped to apply the brakes.
Harris countered that their own conductor of the third train had disputed their position in a deposition, by acknowledging that they knew something was on the tracks. He also said that Film Allman was not following safety rules. He said, "if Miller's film company is expected to follow safety rules, doesn't CSX need to follows its (company's) own rules?"

Last week in court, Jones' lawyers introduced the CSX's company policy that stated that conductors must "immediately notify a dispatcher of any unauthorized outside party on a track or right of way ... Be especially cautious around bridges and tunnels."
However, CSX countered saying that none of that proves negligence, and then pointed the finger back to Miller. They said CSX twice in writing denied the filmmakers access.

At issue is that supposedly two trains went through earlier in the day but did not report seeing the crew setting up near the tracks, in violation of internal policy.  Also, if you read the whole article, apparently the dead girl and others were under the impression that they were not in danger, or that they had permission to film.  The director  plead to criminal charges in the case; how he was liable for 28% and CSX was liable for 35% is beyond me.  I mean, I'm sure CSX has done plenty of shady and negligent shiat over the years, but this ain't it, IMO.
 
2017-07-18 11:12:15 AM  

ihateallofyou: How does a train sneak up on someone?


they can be quieter than you think if they're not pulling a grade or a heavy load.

They do have horn requirements and speed restrictions on certain bridges (not all), but the horn is on;y blown when they're close to the bridge, and if they're moving 40-45 mph, they'll be on you before you can get off the bridge.

This must have been the first train through after they started filming, otherwise the crew would have notified the dispatcher, who would have called the CSX and local police.
 
2017-07-18 11:12:48 AM  
CSX is the biggest bag of dicks I've ever encountered.  I've worked with them as a customer, a contractor, and have done work over their tracks.

But this jury award is bullshiat.
 
2017-07-18 11:13:49 AM  
Reminds me of walking around Eugene Oregon high as a kite one evening 30 years ago. I heard a train and a voice in my head said "I'm not going to be hit by that train."

Another voice in my head then said, "That's what everyone who's ever been hit by a train said. Please look again and make sure"

I checked and I was 1000 feet from the tracks. Goofy, yes, but still a valuable lesson to me.
 
2017-07-18 11:14:44 AM  
But....did they get the shot?

I blame the parents for raising a kid who can't run sideways from train tracks, or hear train sounds well enough from a distance. Your fault, parents. You suck and should be ashamed.
 
2017-07-18 11:15:46 AM  
FTFA: CSX has systemic issues that need corrected

Goddammitsomuch
 
2017-07-18 11:15:46 AM  
That verdict is some wicked bullsh*t.
 
2017-07-18 11:16:09 AM  

nekom: hobnail:
I assume it has more to do with limiting access to the tracks. Although I thought "attractive nuisance" only applied to children.  (not a lawyer).

CSX has about 21,000 route miles of track.  They can't fence it all in.  I do have sympathy for the poor woman but I find it hard to blame the railroad for this sort of thing.  Trains are loud on purpose and they ONLY go on tracks.  Stay the hell away from those tracks, it's common sense.  Or at least if you MUST trespass keep your bearings about you and have an easy out if you hear a train coming.  They don't sneak up on you.


Trains maybe not.  Fire trucks?

img.fark.net
 
2017-07-18 11:16:13 AM  

Great_Milenko: This must have been the first train through after they started filming, otherwise the crew would have notified the dispatcher, who would have called the CSX and local police.


From a poster above:
Two trains passed through the train trestle the first day of filming Midnight Riderbefore the third train plowed through the set going 57 mph. The CSX attorney countered saying that the other two train conductors said nothing appeared out of ordinary and they had seen people on the side of tracks before. In court, they had referred to them as "rail fans."

That does change things, although I would think they would be able to tell a film crew from some railfans.  And from what I hear, they're supposed to call in railfans when they're where they shouldn't be.
 
2017-07-18 11:16:30 AM  
What percent of the liability do the parents get for not teaching their kid not to play on train tracks?
 
2017-07-18 11:16:42 AM  

hobnail: CSX needs better lawyers.  Up here, 10/15 years ago, a BNSF train hit a carload of teenagers (who had been drinking, though it wasn't clear if the driver was impaired or not).  Witnesses said the gate arms malfunctioned. Amazingly, the data tapes from that crossing disappeared.  Sorry for your loss, your kids were drunk and stupid....

While these morons get a settlement.


This is actually a judgment, I believe. 

\ I otherwise completely agree
 
2017-07-18 11:16:50 AM  

hobnail: That said, this trial disclosed a number of exceptionally poor judgements and ignored opportunities by CSX Transportation to prevent this tragedy. Frankly, I believe that the evidence in this trial indicated that CSX has systemic issues that need corrected.

I'd be very curious to know what those issues were...also I assume this will be appealed.

Elizabeth and I have spent the last 3 plus years wanting to understand how our daughter, Sarah Elizabeth Jones, tragically lost her life . we can get a huge settlement from CSX.


FTFY
 
2017-07-18 11:18:43 AM  
Today I learned that $9,229,416.00 is the full value of the life of a human being.
 
2017-07-18 11:18:54 AM  

johnny_vegas: Korzine: Terrible decision. Not only should the verdict be overturned but CSX should have their courts costs paid by the scumbag family.

Really?   The family?  So you absolve the production company and director that set up on the train tracks?


No, the production "company" is at fault. But CSX isn't the production company. Going after CSX is a pure money move.
 
2017-07-18 11:19:37 AM  

pete1729: Reminds me of walking around Eugene Oregon high as a kite one evening 30 years ago. I heard a train and a voice in my head said "I'm not going to be hit by that train."

Another voice in my head then said, "That's what everyone who's ever been hit by a train said. Please look again and make sure"

I checked and I was 1000 feet from the tracks. Goofy, yes, but still a valuable lesson to me.


Your story reminds of high school and I was driving my car on some country roads with some friends. Saw some lights coming through and over the trees and thought "cool, some guys is harvesting his field at night with the lights on." kept driving and the light was getting closer. Then all of the  sudden I come to a train track cross and notice the light is getting closer...but I still think it is a combine. Then I get on the tracks and look left and HOLY F*CKING SH*T THAT IS A F*CKING TRAIN!" so I gun the engine and make it across before getting destroyed. The road ends in a T and we don't have time to stop and I slide into the ditch. We open the doors and turn around and just watch this train go cruising by.

holy sh*t that was close.
 
2017-07-18 11:21:01 AM  

cefm: CSX should have been given damages for the cleanup.  It sucks to have to do any business in a southern state - they claim to be "pro business" but their juries always give away huge verdicts on bullshiat claims.  I think it's their largest economic generator, now that slavery's over.


From what I've heard, jury decisions like this hit the papers but the inevitable appeal and massive reduction in damages.  No idea if an appeals court can leave the damages to the filming company and remove CSX (and moreso the landowners).

Korzine: Terrible decision. Not only should the verdict be overturned but CSX should have their courts costs paid by the scumbag family.


Court cost awards basically don't exist.  You might notice the British system works a lot better with roughly the exact same base of laws (at least until 1776), but the loser has to pay court costs.
 
2017-07-18 11:21:10 AM  

Great_Milenko: ihateallofyou: How does a train sneak up on someone?

they can be quieter than you think if they're not pulling a grade or a heavy load.

They do have horn requirements and speed restrictions on certain bridges (not all), but the horn is on;y blown when they're close to the bridge, and if they're moving 40-45 mph, they'll be on you before you can get off the bridge.

This must have been the first train through after they started filming, otherwise the crew would have notified the dispatcher, who would have called the CSX and local police.


You nailed the plaintiffs' claim. It was, apparently the 3rd train through and the first two didn't report seeing the crew setting up.
 
2017-07-18 11:22:05 AM  
Great_Milenko:
That does change things, although I would think they would be able to tell a film crew from some railfans.  And from what I hear, they're supposed to call in railfans when they're where they shouldn't be.

Foamers (what they call the SERIOUS railfans) have some impressive gear sometimes.  Go out to horseshoe curve some day and you'll see people who could easily be mistaken for a film crew. They also generally know where the railroad right of way is and know to stay off of it,  There are bad apples, naturally, but generally they understand because most railroads prosecute trespassing rather aggressively and no one needs that trouble.
/railfan
//not a foamer though
 
2017-07-18 11:22:47 AM  

ZAZ: Where I live the law says if you're trespassing on railroad tracks what happens to you is your own fault. Courts have found ways to disregard the law and dig into those deep pockets. Juries love handing out big damage awards against railroads.


I don't know where you live but most places have some version of Occupier's Liability that states you owe a duty of care to people on your property, even if they are trespassing. That's likely the reason CSX was credited with partial responsibility - The jury found that they had failed, in some measure, in that duty of care.

/And for the record I'm not really a fan of this, but it is a fact. I was sued a couple of years ago because someone was bit by a dog in an apartment unit I manage. The tenant had cancelled his insurance, so the judgement fell on the property even though there was nothing we reasonable could have done to prevent it.
 
2017-07-18 11:23:18 AM  

hobnail: That said, this trial disclosed a number of exceptionally poor judgements and ignored opportunities by CSX Transportation to prevent this tragedy. Frankly, I believe that the evidence in this trial indicated that CSX has systemic issues that need corrected.

I'd be very curious to know what those issues were...


It's pretty frickin obvious: CSX could have installed rail-flush platforms between and surrounding the rails the length of their tracks to ease in/egress to the tracks.  And gantry cranes every 15 feet to lift and swing equipment clear in a hurry.  And air conditioned rest areas every quarter mile with restrooms, cool drinks and snacks.  But they didn't do *any* of that!
 
2017-07-18 11:24:01 AM  
This is the video from the accident:
(Warning Disturbing) The Horrifying "Midnight Rider" Train Crash with New Footage
Youtube AgL39l6KrdQ

Not only were they filming on railroad tracks without permission, they had a farking bed on there!. They had to scramble to get the people and equipment off the tracks. This wasn't negligence by the railroad. They had no way of knowing that morons would be filming movies on their bridge. There is no way to block off the bridge to people but still allow train traffic. This needs to be appealed.

Also, I've never seen a settlement form before so was intrigued by how it is filled out. First off that the awarded amounts aren't round numbers. I wouldn't figure that $11221499 is a number that just springs to mind. Then how they apportion blame in percentages. It just looks weird.
 
2017-07-18 11:24:33 AM  

Korzine: johnny_vegas: Korzine: Terrible decision. Not only should the verdict be overturned but CSX should have their courts costs paid by the scumbag family.

Really?   The family?  So you absolve the production company and director that set up on the train tracks?

No, the production "company" is at fault. But CSX isn't the production company. Going after CSX is a pure money move.


Actually, CSX bears some fault. Thier negligence was shown by the fact that they failed to follow their own procedures regarding safety.  When you fail to follow YOUR OWN self imposed procedures, it is hard to argue that your actions didn't contribute to the event.

There are a lot of GED in law folks coming in here popping off about shiat that have no farking clue about. Take that amateur stuff to Reddit or gbtw.
 
2017-07-18 11:27:47 AM  

Slypork: This is the video from the accident:
[YouTube video]
Not only were they filming on railroad tracks without permission, they had a farking bed on there!. They had to scramble to get the people and equipment off the tracks. This wasn't negligence by the railroad. They had no way of knowing that morons would be filming movies on their bridge. There is no way to block off the bridge to people but still allow train traffic. This needs to be appealed.

Also, I've never seen a settlement form before so was intrigued by how it is filled out. First off that the awarded amounts aren't round numbers. I wouldn't figure that $11221499 is a number that just springs to mind. Then how they apportion blame in percentages. It just looks weird.


As stated above, two trains rolled through, saw them, and failed to report it, violating the railroad's OWN policy regarding safety. In addition, the engineer admitted to seeing the crew 2000 feet out, in a deposition, but the train didn't hit the brakes until after running the people over. They are not solely responsible, but they bear some responsibility for what occurred because they did not operate their railroad with the degree of care they had imposed on themselves.
 
2017-07-18 11:32:01 AM  

zeroman987: Slypork: This is the video from the accident:
[YouTube video]
Not only were they filming on railroad tracks without permission, they had a farking bed on there!. They had to scramble to get the people and equipment off the tracks. This wasn't negligence by the railroad. They had no way of knowing that morons would be filming movies on their bridge. There is no way to block off the bridge to people but still allow train traffic. This needs to be appealed.

Also, I've never seen a settlement form before so was intrigued by how it is filled out. First off that the awarded amounts aren't round numbers. I wouldn't figure that $11221499 is a number that just springs to mind. Then how they apportion blame in percentages. It just looks weird.

As stated above, two trains rolled through, saw them, and failed to report it, violating the railroad's OWN policy regarding safety. In addition, the engineer admitted to seeing the crew 2000 feet out, in a deposition, but the train didn't hit the brakes until after running the people over. They are not solely responsible, but they bear some responsibility for what occurred because they did not operate their railroad with the degree of care they had imposed on themselves.


They didn't run anybody over.
 
2017-07-18 11:33:57 AM  

zeroman987: Korzine: johnny_vegas: Korzine: Terrible decision. Not only should the verdict be overturned but CSX should have their courts costs paid by the scumbag family.

Really?   The family?  So you absolve the production company and director that set up on the train tracks?

No, the production "company" is at fault. But CSX isn't the production company. Going after CSX is a pure money move.

Actually, CSX bears some fault. Thier negligence was shown by the fact that they failed to follow their own procedures regarding safety.  When you fail to follow YOUR OWN self imposed procedures, it is hard to argue that your actions didn't contribute to the event.

There are a lot of GED in law folks coming in here popping off about shiat that have no farking clue about. Take that amateur stuff to Reddit or gbtw.


Internal policy isn't law. Companies should not be punished for the attempt to make dangerous areas safer. After this, why shouldn't CSX just abolish their own internal policies and lower their risks moving forward?
 
2017-07-18 11:36:00 AM  

Satanic_Hamster: CSX is the biggest bag of dicks I've ever encountered.  I've worked with them as a customer, a contractor, and have done work over their tracks.

But this jury award is bullshiat.


As someone currently working with CSX property trying to get utility crossings approved, I agree with all of the above.
 
2017-07-18 11:39:01 AM  

Slypork: This needs to be appealed.


boo hoo hoo where will CSX ever come up with $3.92 million they'll be ruined

Slypork: Not only were they filming on railroad tracks without permission


Again this issue is with the director, not Sarah Jones
 
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