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(The New York Times)   The biggest infrastructure problem in the US? Antarctica   ( nytimes.com) divider line
    More: Sad, mcmurdo station, National Science Foundation, United States, South Pole, McMurdo Dry Valleys, South Pole station, American research station, Antarctic research program  
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7071 clicks; posted to Main » on 17 Jul 2017 at 6:50 PM (13 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2017-07-17 11:40:09 AM  
Oh man, hundreds of millions of dollars?  We don't have the money to spend on that! We need that money to build tanks to fight wars in 1973.
 
2017-07-17 01:09:00 PM  
Sound like a lot of shinkage

Wait...female in picture......lot of padded bras
 
2017-07-17 01:45:53 PM  
The British have a nice base in Antarctica. Halley VI

img.fark.net

img.fark.net

img.fark.net

img.fark.net

Looks like something out of Space 1999
 
2017-07-17 04:28:17 PM  
But how can we fight another fruitless war if we invest in the infrastructure at the Antarctica base?
 
2017-07-17 05:47:01 PM  

Astorix: But how can we fight another fruitless war if we invest in the infrastructure at the Antarctica base?


Declare war on the penguins?
 
2017-07-17 06:04:34 PM  

Ron Vibbentrop: Astorix: But how can we fight another fruitless war if we invest in the infrastructure at the Antarctica base?

Declare war on the penguins?


s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com
 
2017-07-17 06:52:43 PM  
The real problem in Antarctica are the farking Swedes.
 
2017-07-17 06:55:39 PM  
Infrastructure?


img.fark.net
 
2017-07-17 06:56:30 PM  

gnosis301: The real problem in Antarctica are the farking Swedes.


Mac, they're NORWEGIANS.
 
2017-07-17 07:02:21 PM  
We can just privatize everything then those companies can charge you $10 each way in tolls for you to get to work and home!

Making America Great Again!
 
2017-07-17 07:02:41 PM  
Is that oil?

Problem solved
 
2017-07-17 07:06:19 PM  

gnosis301: The real problem in Antarctica are the farking Swedes.


Is there a lot of swede-farking in Antarctica?

Or did you mean the vegetables? I prefer turnips, myself.
 
2017-07-17 07:08:47 PM  

Harry Freakstorm: Is that oil?

Problem solved


Sounds like the Antarcticans are gonna get a dose of democracy upside their head.
 
2017-07-17 07:15:19 PM  
A lot of Antarctic research is devoted to climate change.

Yeah, McMurdo's boned
 
2017-07-17 07:15:55 PM  
What ever happened to uncleartica?
 
2017-07-17 07:18:36 PM  

CoysOdie: What ever happened to uncleartica?


It was unobtainable.
 
2017-07-17 07:20:37 PM  

Ron Vibbentrop: The British have a nice base in Antarctica. Halley VI

[img.fark.net image 850x564]

[img.fark.net image 850x478]

[img.fark.net image 300x365]

[img.fark.net image 850x980]

Looks like something out of Space 1999


Can't be, Martin Landow isn't there.
 
2017-07-17 07:20:53 PM  
"in"?


no.
 
2017-07-17 07:22:16 PM  
Fear is for the winter, when the snows fall a hundred feet deep. Fear is for the long night, when the sun hides for years and children are born and live and die, all in darkness. That is the time for fear, my little lord, when the white walkers move through the woods.
 
2017-07-17 07:26:27 PM  
A basic problem is that our national debt is now over 100% of our GDP, which is traditionally seen as the point where servicing the debt reduces the ability of a country to control its destiny.  At the same time, we have huge areas like infrastructure and the military that have been neglected to the point that we must deal with those.  Somehow we must reduce the deficit to the point that the debt grows more slowly than the GDP, and increase the rate of growth of the GDP, and climb back on the horse.
 
2017-07-17 07:41:20 PM  

gnosis301: The real problem in Antarctica are the farking Swedes.


They're Norwegians, Mac
 
2017-07-17 07:41:41 PM  

Glockenspiel Hero: A lot of Antarctic research is devoted to climate change.

Yeah, McMurdo's boned


Pretty much this. By the way, did you know that most Conservatives insist on a fight and do *not* believe in civil discussion?
 
2017-07-17 07:46:35 PM  

sardonicobserver: A basic problem is that our national debt is now over 100% of our GDP, which is traditionally seen as the point where servicing the debt reduces the ability of a country to control its destiny.  At the same time, we have huge areas like infrastructure and the military that have been neglected to the point that we must deal with those.  Somehow we must reduce the deficit to the point that the debt grows more slowly than the GDP, and increase the rate of growth of the GDP, and climb back on the horse.


So make sure the rich don't pay taxes?
 
2017-07-17 07:49:40 PM  

sardonicobserver: A basic problem is that our national debt is now over 100% of our GDP, which is traditionally seen as the point where servicing the debt reduces the ability of a country to control its destiny.  At the same time, we have huge areas like infrastructure and the military that have been neglected to the point that we must deal with those.  Somehow we must reduce the deficit to the point that the debt grows more slowly than the GDP, and increase the rate of growth of the GDP, and climb back on the horse.


Three problems. Fix those, and a lot of problems go away with no trouble. Don't fix them, and you're rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic:

1: Trade deficit.
2: Lack of decent jobs for regular Joes. Not everyone can be a rocket scientist or even a computer programmer.
3: Inequality in wealth: Robert Reich, Clintons Sec of Treasury, who's something of a jerk but occasionally makes very good points, has pointed out that if the distribution of wealth today is what it was in 1975, the median income would be $90K per year, as opposed to about what it really is, around $45.

Imagine what could be done if the median Joe was making $90K a year. There would be a market for all sorts of amazing stuff. Taxes for clean energy, infrastructure, schools, R&D for cancer, etc., and the burden would be much lighter than it is now for the typical person.

As it is, the US is swift becoming a third world country. And to those who say manufacturing jobs will never come back to the US, I dunno, China seems to be pretty well at manufacturing. A lot of stuff will be automated but even so....

Steve Jobs and Obama were at some conference and Jobs said he couldn't make Apples in the US because, for example, no one in the US made the screws he needed. Obama should have said "Well, Steve, Apple has $100 billion in the farking bank, why don't you farking use a little of that and build a farking  screw farking factory. Dumbshiat. Or we'll tax the shiat out of it".

 But he didn't... But he could have. Which gives you some indication of the mindset of the government.
 
2017-07-17 08:00:20 PM  

whidbey: Infrastructure?


[img.fark.net image 850x478]


Dang it. I was going to mention how we keep losing bases every time someone digs something up from the ice.

/shakes tiny fist
 
2017-07-17 08:10:17 PM  

hawks9nkh: We can just privatize everything then those companies can charge you $10 each way in tolls for you to get to work and home!

Making America Great Again!


I see they eat for free and don't have to pay rent, heat, or electricity.There's another few things they can start charging for. Oh, and that hairstylist should be paying booth rent to the company.
 
2017-07-17 08:10:27 PM  
There are other attractions to Antarctica....

img.fark.net

/Not a terrible movie.
//Trailers made it look like a monster/alien movie.
///Yes, I know it wasn't shot in Antarctica...
 
2017-07-17 08:24:21 PM  

enemy of the state: sardonicobserver: A basic problem is that our national debt is now over 100% of our GDP, which is traditionally seen as the point where servicing the debt reduces the ability of a country to control its destiny.  At the same time, we have huge areas like infrastructure and the military that have been neglected to the point that we must deal with those.  Somehow we must reduce the deficit to the point that the debt grows more slowly than the GDP, and increase the rate of growth of the GDP, and climb back on the horse.

Three problems. Fix those, and a lot of problems go away with no trouble. Don't fix them, and you're rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic:

1: Trade deficit.
2: Lack of decent jobs for regular Joes. Not everyone can be a rocket scientist or even a computer programmer.
3: Inequality in wealth: Robert Reich, Clintons Sec of Treasury, who's something of a jerk but occasionally makes very good points, has pointed out that if the distribution of wealth today is what it was in 1975, the median income would be $90K per year, as opposed to about what it really is, around $45.

Imagine what could be done if the median Joe was making $90K a year. There would be a market for all sorts of amazing stuff. Taxes for clean energy, infrastructure, schools, R&D for cancer, etc., and the burden would be much lighter than it is now for the typical person.

As it is, the US is swift becoming a third world country. And to those who say manufacturing jobs will never come back to the US, I dunno, China seems to be pretty well at manufacturing. A lot of stuff will be automated but even so....

Steve Jobs and Obama were at some conference and Jobs said he couldn't make Apples in the US because, for example, no one in the US made the screws he needed. Obama should have said "Well, Steve, Apple has $100 billion in the farking bank, why don't you farking use a little of that and build a farking  screw farking factory. Dumbshiat. Or we'll tax the shiat out of it".

 But he didn't ...


I think that you are getting at things that would increase the rate of GNP growth.
 
2017-07-17 09:08:33 PM  

sardonicobserver: A basic problem is that our national debt is now over 100% of our GDP, which is traditionally seen as the point where servicing the debt reduces the ability of a country to control its destiny.  At the same time, we have huge areas like infrastructure and the military that have been neglected to the point that we must deal with those.  Somehow we must reduce the deficit to the point that the debt grows more slowly than the GDP, and increase the rate of growth of the GDP, and climb back on the horse.


Hahahahahaha!  "The military has been neglected."  That's a good one.  There's nothing quite like a good belly laugh to make you feel better after a shiatty day.  Thanks!
 
2017-07-17 09:14:11 PM  
 I thought we wanted affordable health care before we go off building ice breakers the scientific consensus says is unnecessary?
 
2017-07-17 09:26:51 PM  

Ron Vibbentrop: The British have a nice base in Antarctica. Halley VI

Looks like something out of Space 1999


That's a nice and remote location. Good place to put a nuclear waste dump.
 
2017-07-17 09:28:02 PM  
Ice age is here, right in your town
Antarctica, look what you've done
And I, I feel like I've cheated your scheme
 
2017-07-17 09:36:22 PM  

Ron Vibbentrop: Astorix: But how can we fight another fruitless war if we invest in the infrastructure at the Antarctica base?

Declare war on the penguins?


img.fark.net
 
2017-07-17 09:41:35 PM  
They should just 3D print an infrastructure.
 
2017-07-17 10:47:43 PM  

sardonicobserver: A basic problem is that our national debt is now over 100% of our GDP, which is traditionally seen as the point where servicing the debt reduces the ability of a country to control its destiny.  At the same time, we have huge areas like infrastructure and the military that have been neglected to the point that we must deal with those.  Somehow we must reduce the deficit to the point that the debt grows more slowly than the GDP, and increase the rate of growth of the GDP, and climb back on the horse.


Tax cuts to the rich should do the job.  Trickling down any day now
 
2017-07-17 10:51:19 PM  

dill doze: sardonicobserver: A basic problem is that our national debt is now over 100% of our GDP, which is traditionally seen as the point where servicing the debt reduces the ability of a country to control its destiny.  At the same time, we have huge areas like infrastructure and the military that have been neglected to the point that we must deal with those.  Somehow we must reduce the deficit to the point that the debt grows more slowly than the GDP, and increase the rate of growth of the GDP, and climb back on the horse.

Hahahahahaha!  "The military has been neglected."  That's a good one.  There's nothing quite like a good belly laugh to make you feel better after a shiatty day.  Thanks!


No, it's absolutely true.  We've neglected to make appropriate deep cuts to the military budget for FAR too long.
 
2017-07-17 11:16:20 PM  
Build a damn igloo already!

/kidding
 
2017-07-17 11:45:33 PM  

enemy of the state: China seems to be pretty well at manufacturing


Half of China does not have toilets. They are still climbing back up. Americans would not work the conditions of some of those factories for $90,000 per year (let alone the $9,000 per year they are actually getting)
 
2017-07-18 12:04:04 AM  
Let me fix that for you

sardonicobserver: A basic problem is that our national debt is now over 100% of our GDP, which is traditionally seen as the point where servicing the debt reduces the ability of a country to control its destiny.  At the same time, we have huge areas like infrastructure and the military

veterans that have been neglected to the point that we must deal with those.  Somehow we must reduce the deficit to the point that the debt grows more slowly than the GDP, and increase the rate of growth of the GDP, and climb back on the horse.
 
2017-07-18 12:28:51 AM  
Wouldn't the biggest infrastructure problem in the US be oil and gas pipelines, roads and building in Alaska sinking into the melting permafrost and catching the methane on fire?

Russia has the same problems, only much worse. Their permafrost has been melting much longer and it is way, way deeper. Kilometers instead of two or three hundred meters.

In Canada the number of days that the ice roads and iced over lakes can support giant trucks has declined a lot, putting logging, mining, and transportation of very seriously over-priced goods in jeapardy in much of the North, as far South as Manitoba, etc. Not to mention airports and harbours.

More of a future infrastructure problem, I admit, but already a real and present danger in much of the Arctic.
 
2017-07-18 12:39:55 AM  

eldoobie: Let me fix that for you
sardonicobserver: A basic problem is that our national debt is now over 100% of our GDP, which is traditionally seen as the point where servicing the debt reduces the ability of a country to control its destiny.  At the same time, we have huge areas like infrastructure and the militaryveterans that have been neglected to the point that we must deal with those.  Somehow we must reduce the deficit to the point that the debt grows more slowly than the GDP, and increase the rate of growth of the GDP, and climb back on the horse.


That's more reasonable.  The increased pressure on the VA due to returning vets from discretionary middle-eastern wars was predicted at the start of the current round of them, in the early 2000s.  But nobody listened then, because it wasn't as urgent as waging war on an idea with bullets and bombs, so in we went.  Twice.  The GW administration failed to take the problem seriously.  The Obama administration took some halfhearted steps to address it.  Now the Trump administration is set to talk up how they're bigly solving the problem while actually cutting funding (you'll see).

That, and it's complete bullshiat to say to people "Enlist today!", promising health care and other benefits when they return, hand them a helmet and an M4, and send them over to Afghanistan just to screw them over when they get back.  These people put their asses on the line for the rest of us.

It's not that we're not spending the money.  We're spending it on stupid shiat.  A $13B aircraft carrier that "has trouble with aircraft."  A $1.53T (that's trillion) dollar jet that can barely even fly.  Meanwhile we're planning to retire the A-10, one the most amazing close support aircraft we've ever produced.  Because... F-35.

/now I'm all pissed off again
 
2017-07-18 01:54:09 AM  

eldoobie: Let me fix that for you
sardonicobserver: A basic problem is that our national debt is now over 100% of our GDP, which is traditionally seen as the point where servicing the debt reduces the ability of a country to control its destiny.  At the same time, we have huge areas like infrastructure and the militaryveterans that have been neglected to the point that we must deal with those.  Somehow we must reduce the deficit to the point that the debt grows more slowly than the GDP, and increase the rate of growth of the GDP, and climb back on the horse.


Yeah, veterans too.  I was pointing out that we have a huge problem with the budget and many needy things.  My list was too short.  The list of things that need funding includes veterans, drug and gang problems and broken families in the inner cities... the list seems endless.
 
2017-07-18 02:45:12 AM  

sardonicobserver: eldoobie: Let me fix that for you
sardonicobserver: A basic problem is that our national debt is now over 100% of our GDP, which is traditionally seen as the point where servicing the debt reduces the ability of a country to control its destiny.  At the same time, we have huge areas like infrastructure and the militaryveterans that have been neglected to the point that we must deal with those.  Somehow we must reduce the deficit to the point that the debt grows more slowly than the GDP, and increase the rate of growth of the GDP, and climb back on the horse.

Yeah, veterans too.  I was pointing out that we have a huge problem with the budget and many needy things.  My list was too short.  The list of things that need funding includes veterans, drug and gang problems and broken families in the inner cities... the list seems endless.


What we *don't* need is another $1530 Billion fighter program, or a $13 Billion aircraft carrier that's less capable than the ones it's supposed to replace.
 
2017-07-18 02:54:06 AM  

Ron Vibbentrop: There are other attractions to Antarctica....

[img.fark.net image 589x504]

/Not a terrible movie.
//Trailers made it look like a monster/alien movie.
///Yes, I know it wasn't shot in Antarctica...


I need to know the name of the movie for research.
 
2017-07-18 02:56:53 AM  

dill doze: sardonicobserver: A basic problem is that our national debt is now over 100% of our GDP, which is traditionally seen as the point where servicing the debt reduces the ability of a country to control its destiny.  At the same time, we have huge areas like infrastructure and the military that have been neglected to the point that we must deal with those.  Somehow we must reduce the deficit to the point that the debt grows more slowly than the GDP, and increase the rate of growth of the GDP, and climb back on the horse.

Hahahahahaha!  "The military has been neglected."  That's a good one.  There's nothing quite like a good belly laugh to make you feel better after a shiatty day.  Thanks!


That really depends on how you look at it.  The military is getting all the F35s and other boondoggle weapon systems that congress wants it to have, but troop pay, base housing, and the equipment that the troops actually use in the field, but don't have as high a profit margin for Lockheed Martin, those things get neglected like hell.
 
2017-07-18 03:14:58 AM  

winedrinkingman: dill doze: sardonicobserver: A basic problem is that our national debt is now over 100% of our GDP, which is traditionally seen as the point where servicing the debt reduces the ability of a country to control its destiny.  At the same time, we have huge areas like infrastructure and the military that have been neglected to the point that we must deal with those.  Somehow we must reduce the deficit to the point that the debt grows more slowly than the GDP, and increase the rate of growth of the GDP, and climb back on the horse.

Hahahahahaha!  "The military has been neglected."  That's a good one.  There's nothing quite like a good belly laugh to make you feel better after a shiatty day.  Thanks!

That really depends on how you look at it.  The military is getting all the F35s and other boondoggle weapon systems that congress wants it to have, but troop pay, base housing, and the equipment that the troops actually use in the field, but don't have as high a profit margin for Lockheed Martin, those things get neglected like hell.


True enough, and scroll up =p
 
2017-07-18 03:51:40 AM  

dill doze: sardonicobserver: eldoobie: Let me fix that for you
sardonicobserver: A basic problem is that our national debt is now over 100% of our GDP, which is traditionally seen as the point where servicing the debt reduces the ability of a country to control its destiny.  At the same time, we have huge areas like infrastructure and the militaryveterans that have been neglected to the point that we must deal with those.  Somehow we must reduce the deficit to the point that the debt grows more slowly than the GDP, and increase the rate of growth of the GDP, and climb back on the horse.

Yeah, veterans too.  I was pointing out that we have a huge problem with the budget and many needy things.  My list was too short.  The list of things that need funding includes veterans, drug and gang problems and broken families in the inner cities... the list seems endless.

What we *don't* need is another $1530 Billion fighter program, or a $13 Billion aircraft carrier that's less capable than the ones it's supposed to replace.


Yes, we need to build planes ships, not fund fiascos.  The renegotiation of the F-35 seems to have put a stop to cost growth.  We need more F-22's without making a whole new major program out of replacing its antiquated avionics; that plane needs to be a lower-cost simplified alternative to the F-35 like the F-16 was to the F-15.

I think that program management is catching up to the challenges.  You are certainly correct in saying that we can't afford to fund fiascos anymore.
 
2017-07-18 03:55:56 AM  

winedrinkingman: Ron Vibbentrop: There are other attractions to Antarctica....

[img.fark.net image 589x504]

/Not a terrible movie.
//Trailers made it look like a monster/alien movie.
///Yes, I know it wasn't shot in Antarctica...

I need to know the name of the movie for research.


The chick is Kate Beckinsale.  I don't know the movie the photo is from but you should remove the nannies from the search engine before searching on her name to get a full list of her movies.
 
2017-07-18 04:27:18 AM  

sardonicobserver: dill doze: sardonicobserver: eldoobie: Let me fix that for you
sardonicobserver: A basic problem is that our national debt is now over 100% of our GDP, which is traditionally seen as the point where servicing the debt reduces the ability of a country to control its destiny.  At the same time, we have huge areas like infrastructure and the militaryveterans that have been neglected to the point that we must deal with those.  Somehow we must reduce the deficit to the point that the debt grows more slowly than the GDP, and increase the rate of growth of the GDP, and climb back on the horse.

Yeah, veterans too.  I was pointing out that we have a huge problem with the budget and many needy things.  My list was too short.  The list of things that need funding includes veterans, drug and gang problems and broken families in the inner cities... the list seems endless.

What we *don't* need is another $1530 Billion fighter program, or a $13 Billion aircraft carrier that's less capable than the ones it's supposed to replace.

Yes, we need to build planes ships, not fund fiascos.  The renegotiation of the F-35 seems to have put a stop to cost growth.  We need more F-22's without making a whole new major program out of replacing its antiquated avionics; that plane needs to be a lower-cost simplified alternative to the F-35 like the F-16 was to the F-15.

I think that program management is catching up to the challenges.  You are certainly correct in saying that we can't afford to fund fiascos anymore.


I'd argue that we don't need the F-35 *at all*.  It's a misguided attempt to make the same airframe serve all three branches.  The Army wants VTOL/STOL but they've already got helicopters, the navy wants something that works on carriers but they've already got the f18 and f22, and the air force wants a stealthy drone controller.

Let's make equipment to fit the role, instead of trying to force the same plane into three different roles.
 
2017-07-18 06:58:54 AM  

Glockenspiel Hero: A lot of Antarctic research is devoted to climate change.

Yeah, McMurdo's boned


i.imgur.com
 
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