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(MSN)   His parents said he just needed to sleep. Then things got stupid. And tragic   ( msn.com) divider line
    More: Misc, police, Constable, Austin, Russell Reeves, hingham police, SWAT team, hingham police chief, Austin's parents  
•       •       •

17822 clicks; posted to Main » on 17 Jul 2017 at 6:59 AM (13 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



328 Comments     (+0 »)
 
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2017-07-17 12:38:05 AM  
That story is absolutely heartbreaking.
 
2017-07-17 01:52:37 AM  
Nevercall the cops if worried about someone's mental health.

Just don't.
 
2017-07-17 02:48:53 AM  
I can't snark at this.
 
2017-07-17 02:52:50 AM  
That...seems like a disproportionate response regardless of the parents suggestion.
 
2017-07-17 02:55:24 AM  

Shadow Blasko: Nevercall the cops if worried about someone's mental health.

Just don't.


As someone said in a thread about a similar story: if you have a problem and you call the cops now you have two problems.
 
2017-07-17 04:21:38 AM  
Cops be all like, "mental health emergency? Break out the heavy weapons!"

Blues Brothers - Hut Hut Hut SWAT-scenes
Youtube Atks5rRqQkg


"Situation resolved."

/Bastards
 
2017-07-17 04:40:58 AM  
Lesson learned: Don't call the cops for a suicidal person
 
2017-07-17 06:45:20 AM  
Want someone dead? Call the cops to check on them.
Pig be all like " let's kill this mofo cause we can"
 
2017-07-17 07:07:20 AM  
Inb4 habitual coplickers enter to proclaim that these cops were in the right cause the dude could have, i don't know, had drugs or bombs or a nuke in his room sonewhere. Or could have been a liberal or something.
 
2017-07-17 07:08:46 AM  
i always enjoy reading how such things are handled in second/third world countries. Makes me appreciate our police force more
 
2017-07-17 07:12:53 AM  

cman: Lesson learned: Don't call the cops for a suicidal person


Fixed.
 
2017-07-17 07:14:02 AM  

LowbrowDeluxe: That...seems like a disproportionate response regardless of the parents suggestion.


They've got all this high end military gear that they never get to use.   When the opportunity to suit up comes, they go full hog.
 
2017-07-17 07:17:32 AM  

Shadow Blasko: Nevercall the cops if worried about someone's mental health.

Just don't.


Yeah, wait until they go all murder-suicide.
 
2017-07-17 07:19:16 AM  
Wait. So as soon as the parents were shuffled off in a police van away from the house and are unable to witness, suddenly the kid chooses that moment to kill himself. Seems awfully convenient for the cops.
 
2017-07-17 07:19:56 AM  

lucksi: i always enjoy reading how such things are handled in second/third world countries. Makes me appreciate our police force more


Deutschland uber alles

Are you an expat living there, or are you native?
 
2017-07-17 07:20:23 AM  

Shadow Blasko: Never call the cops if worried about someone's mental health.

Just don't.


Can't smart this enough.
 
2017-07-17 07:20:51 AM  

Keyser_Soze_Death: cman: Lesson learned: Don't call the cops for a suicidal person

Fixed.


If someone was trying to break into my place, I'm gonna call the cops. They do have their uses even tho many of them can be assholes.
 
2017-07-17 07:24:17 AM  
"Don't back me into a corner," his father remembers Austin saying. "Because I'll make it go away in four seconds."
To Russell Reeves, the meaning was clear - Austin would hurt himself if he wasn't left in peace. Stunned and afraid, Reeves dialed the Hingham police just after 10 p.m. to ask for help.


So the meaning was clear... yet he calls the police.

In the hall upstairs, Austin's mother spoke to him through his locked bedroom door. "Whatever's happening," Kate Harrison says she called to her son, "I love you, and we can work it out."

Then immediately start pestering him.
I get the feeling they never actually leave him the fark alone
 
2017-07-17 07:24:36 AM  
All those cops, all that hardware on the scene, and the dog, a pitty mix no less, survives. That is a goddam miracle in this whole heartbreaking story.
 
2017-07-17 07:25:39 AM  
cman:
If someone was trying to break into my place, I'm gonna call the cops. They do have their uses even tho many of them can be assholes.

Even that isn't safe, apparently.
 
2017-07-17 07:26:16 AM  

Shadow Blasko: Nevercall the cops if worried about someone's mental health.

Just don't.


Only call the cops if you need someone killed and you can't do it yourself.
 
2017-07-17 07:29:21 AM  

cman: lucksi: i always enjoy reading how such things are handled in second/third world countries. Makes me appreciate our police force more

Deutschland uber alles

Are you an expat living there, or are you native?


it's funny how you people know such things, yet elect a leader running on that platform
 
2017-07-17 07:30:26 AM  

Jesus McSordid: cman:
If someone was trying to break into my place, I'm gonna call the cops. They do have their uses even tho many of them can be assholes.

Even that isn't safe, apparently.


Why on earth is that story not on fark's main page yet?
 
2017-07-17 07:32:11 AM  
FTA: "The reason police shoot someone is that they fear getting shot," Berkowitz said. "If they're wearing armor, or they're in an armored truck, they feel more secure, and they're less likely to shoot."

HAHAHAHAHAHA, no.

Lets fix that shall we?

FIXED:  "The reason police shoot someone is that they fear everything," Berkowitz said. "If they're wearing armor, or they're in an armored truck, they feel more empowered, and they're more likely to shoot to prove their manhood."

Now that statement is true.
 
2017-07-17 07:33:13 AM  
I read that whole piece trying to find the bit that justified why the police were even there in the first place.

There wasn't one.
 
2017-07-17 07:33:59 AM  

lucksi: cman: lucksi: i always enjoy reading how such things are handled in second/third world countries. Makes me appreciate our police force more

Deutschland uber alles

Are you an expat living there, or are you native?

it's funny how you people know such things, yet elect a leader running on that platform


uh no... we people didn't, we people elected Hillary by 3 million more votes than the derp brigade.  The EC abdicated their duty and elected the demagogue which is outside of the people's control.
 
2017-07-17 07:35:12 AM  

Nidiot: I read that whole piece trying to find the bit that justified why the police were even there in the first place.

There wasn't one.


one of them called for a wellness check.
 
2017-07-17 07:37:18 AM  
Guys, the cops do not back down. If they've had to come all the way out there, you're leaving in cuffs or a bag.
 
2017-07-17 07:37:27 AM  

cpubus: "Don't back me into a corner," his father remembers Austin saying. "Because I'll make it go away in four seconds."
To Russell Reeves, the meaning was clear - Austin would hurt himself if he wasn't left in peace. Stunned and afraid, Reeves dialed the Hingham police just after 10 p.m. to ask for help.

So the meaning was clear... yet he calls the police.

In the hall upstairs, Austin's mother spoke to him through his locked bedroom door. "Whatever's happening," Kate Harrison says she called to her son, "I love you, and we can work it out."

Then immediately start pestering him.
I get the feeling they never actually leave him the fark alone


Yeah. Thanks Mom and Dad, you sure handled that well. Of course you wont see how you contributed to the death of your own son there at all.
 
2017-07-17 07:38:06 AM  

lucksi: cman: lucksi: i always enjoy reading how such things are handled in second/third world countries. Makes me appreciate our police force more

Deutschland uber alles

Are you an expat living there, or are you native?

it's funny how you people know such things, yet elect a leader running on that platform


Thats like the only line of the song I know. Anyone who watches the Olympics probably is the same.

And I didnt vote for the asshole. 46% of American voters did.

/I spent some time in Wiesbaden (for some reason, spellcheck wants to correct that to "disbandment"). I Loved it there.
 
2017-07-17 07:38:45 AM  
Police safety is much like firearm safety; never point either at something you don't want to kill.
 
2017-07-17 07:39:58 AM  
I dunno. I had a former boss who was going through a tough time with a dying father,a stolen bike, and a nasty break-up who ended up having one of these wellness checks initiated on him. The police came out, spoke with him, and did seize his guns for his own "protection".

Now he was rather embarrassed about the whole situation. Both with how his neighbors now perceived the guy who had all those cop cars show up at his house, let alone how he might be perceived at work.

But you know what? The whole thing went down without incident. He wasnt raised as a spoiled brat who always got his way through threats of self-harm.
 
2017-07-17 07:40:06 AM  

his name is my name too: Nidiot: I read that whole piece trying to find the bit that justified why the police were even there in the first place.

There wasn't one.

one of them called for a wellness check.


A wellness check is suitable for someone who hasn't been seen alive for a while, not for someone who went to their room asking to be left alone.
 
2017-07-17 07:42:37 AM  

cman: Lesson learned: Don't call the cops for a suicidal person


Or ever, really.

The only reason you should call the police is to kill negros. That's not what police are supposed to be, just what they've become. If you need negros murdered, call the police. If you need ANYTHING else, call someone else.

Also if you are black , or even have a heavy tan, and the police show up... GET THE HELL OUTTA THERE!
 
2017-07-17 07:42:41 AM  

his name is my name too: lucksi: cman: lucksi: i always enjoy reading how such things are handled in second/third world countries. Makes me appreciate our police force more

Deutschland uber alles

Are you an expat living there, or are you native?

it's funny how you people know such things, yet elect a leader running on that platform

uh no... we people didn't, we people elected Hillary by 3 million more votes than the derp brigade.  The EC abdicated their duty and elected the demagogue which is outside of the people's control.


yeah, it's not like you have historical precedent that some peoples vote only count for 3 fifth...
 
2017-07-17 07:46:12 AM  
Another victory for the NRA
 
2017-07-17 07:47:14 AM  
All he wanted was one Pepsi.
 
2017-07-17 07:48:05 AM  

doglover: cman: Lesson learned: Don't call the cops for a suicidal person

Or ever, really.

The only reason you should call the police is to kill negros. That's not what police are supposed to be, just what they've become. If you need negros murdered, call the police. If you need ANYTHING else, call someone else.

Also if you are black , or even have a heavy tan, and the police show up... GET THE HELL OUTTA THERE!


They just shot an unarmed blonde white Australian woman in Minneapolis, after she called them for help http://www.startribune.com/woman-killed-in-officer-involved-shoo​ting-i​n-south-minneapolis/434782213/#1 so you have to update that advice. Skin tone is now irrelevant.

Don't call the police unless you want someone shot.
 
2017-07-17 07:48:59 AM  

Nidiot: cpubus: "Don't back me into a corner," his father remembers Austin saying. "Because I'll make it go away in four seconds."
To Russell Reeves, the meaning was clear - Austin would hurt himself if he wasn't left in peace. Stunned and afraid, Reeves dialed the Hingham police just after 10 p.m. to ask for help.

So the meaning was clear... yet he calls the police.

In the hall upstairs, Austin's mother spoke to him through his locked bedroom door. "Whatever's happening," Kate Harrison says she called to her son, "I love you, and we can work it out."

Then immediately start pestering him.
I get the feeling they never actually leave him the fark alone

Yeah. Thanks Mom and Dad, you sure handled that well. Of course you wont see how you contributed to the death of your own son there at all.


Yeah, when a loved one goes up to a room to be alone with a gun and is visibly distraught, everyone acts completely 100% rationally. Nobody could ever panic and make a one poor decision, which they will regret forever in hindsight.

/Way to kick some one when they're down.
//Glad at least that the cops didn't gun the dog down in front of the parents.
 
2017-07-17 07:49:44 AM  

lucksi: his name is my name too: lucksi: cman: lucksi: i always enjoy reading how such things are handled in second/third world countries. Makes me appreciate our police force more

Deutschland uber alles

Are you an expat living there, or are you native?

it's funny how you people know such things, yet elect a leader running on that platform

uh no... we people didn't, we people elected Hillary by 3 million more votes than the derp brigade.  The EC abdicated their duty and elected the demagogue which is outside of the people's control.

yeah, it's not like you have historical precedent that some peoples vote only count for 3 fifth...


Slaves werent allowed to vote and at no time were blacks vote only worth 3/5ths of a white mans vote

That 3/5ths rule was about population count towards representation. Blacks were only considered 3/5ths of a person because the south wanted them to be count as a full person so the south could have more representation in Congress (all of whom would have been white).
 
2017-07-17 07:50:01 AM  

Nidiot: Skin tone is now irrelevant.


Well fark.

They can't even not shoot blonde chicks!?!?!

I take it back. ONLY CALL THE POLICE IN AMERICA IF YOU WANT TO DIE. THEY WILL F*CK AND OR KILL YOU.

911? More like 187.
 
2017-07-17 07:50:18 AM  
You have the right to bear arms, unless you're at home in your bedroom with a dog.
 
2017-07-17 07:52:00 AM  
I can't imagine the bill for that
 
2017-07-17 07:53:56 AM  
America's police system is broken. Many (if not most) cops have absolutely no idea how to deescalate a situation, and those that do often get reprimanded for talking people down instead of gunning down the "threat". And our legal system has repeatedly told police that if they even feel a twinge of 'fear', they're completely justified in killing someone, no matter how little of a threat was posed, or how cooperative the victim was.

The entire system needs to be rebuilt from the ground up.
 
2017-07-17 07:53:57 AM  

cman: Lesson learned: Don't call the cops for a suicidal person


The problem is, if you call the suicide hotline, they will call the cops.
Happened to friends of mine when their daughter called.
It didn't end like this thankfully.
 
2017-07-17 07:56:20 AM  

Wyalt Derp: You have the right to bear arms, unless you're at home in your bedroom with a dog.


Or black and cooperating with the police.
 
2017-07-17 07:58:00 AM  
The regional SWAT team boasts trained negotiators and military-style equipment including a bulletproof BearCat armored truck.

Oh, I wish those parents didn't call the police.  Suburban cops with access to unnecessary over-the-top military equipment is practically a guaranteed death sentence.  Parents had to learn the hard way that cops are not there to help and should only be called as a last result.

Anyone read Twilight Eyes by Dean Koontz?  This scene reminds me of how the goblins in human skin would all show up and gather in numbers to witness when death was about to happen.  All those cops showing up to see the show remind me of that.

/That was a very sad read
//I'm sure the cops are patting themselves on the back for 'resolving' the situation
///can't believe they didn't murder the dog, too
 
2017-07-17 08:01:31 AM  
My first thought would be to call a suicide prevention hotline, unless of course I suspected that my child with the gun was likely to take out a few other people including myself, neighbors, ex girlfriends, etc.; at which point the responsible thing would be to call the police.

  So, the parents are fearful for their own lives, and the police aren't allowed to be fearful for their own lives and take precautions like wearing body armor?  The parents just expected a Hollywood ending where a kindly old police officer takes off the vest, risks his/her own life and smoothly says the perfect words, that perfectly penetrate the angst of the would be suicide.

The guy shot himself, there's very little the police could have done to prevent that.  No one else got shot, that's a positive outcome.
 
2017-07-17 08:01:49 AM  
What is the primary purpose of police? Beyond paperwork and investigations, it's not protecting the public. No, the primary purpose of the police is to neutralize threats. Insofar as the police are concerned, and the people who voted in a police force with that modus operandi, it can only be seen as mission accomplished.

If you own guns the police will kill you if they perceive you as a threat. If you are having a mental breakdown the police will kill you if they perceive you as a threat. If you are nonwhite the police will kill you if they perceive you as a threat (if you won't listen to me, at least give Chris Rock a chance, might just save your life). Heck sometimes they even shoot white people, but they try to keep it out of the news (offer may not be valid in Zimbabwe).

How "duh" can we get on this? How many more times do we have to see a police killing before we simply accept it not only as reality but as the political will of the democratic republican populace? I'd bet a dollar at the casino that this victim's parents voted for the very politicians that enabled this sort of environment to emerge. But not more than a dollar. I dislike games of chance even when rigged in my favor.

It's all about perception.
 
2017-07-17 08:01:57 AM  

idrow: Parents had to learn the hard way that cops are not there to help and should only be called as a last result. to farkin' kill bishes.


FTFY.
 
2017-07-17 08:02:19 AM  

idrow: The regional SWAT team boasts trained negotiators and military-style equipment including a bulletproof BearCat armored truck.

Oh, I wish those parents didn't call the police.  Suburban cops with access to unnecessary over-the-top military equipment is practically a guaranteed death sentence.  Parents had to learn the hard way that cops are not there to help and should only be called as a last result.

Anyone read Twilight Eyes by Dean Koontz?  This scene reminds me of how the goblins in human skin would all show up and gather in numbers to witness when death was about to happen.  All those cops showing up to see the show remind me of that.

/That was a very sad read
//I'm sure the cops are patting themselves on the back for 'resolving' the situation
///can't believe they didn't murder the dog, too


I read Twilight Eyes by Koontz. If goblins do exist, they're on the Internet. Along with the trolls. And the WH40K Dark Eldar. And the Slaneeshi minions.
 
2017-07-17 08:02:29 AM  

idrow: The regional SWAT team boasts trained negotiators and military-style equipment including a bulletproof BearCat armored truck.

Oh, I wish those parents didn't call the police.  Suburban cops with access to unnecessary over-the-top military equipment is practically a guaranteed death sentence.  Parents had to learn the hard way that cops are not there to help and should only be called as a last result.

Anyone read Twilight Eyes by Dean Koontz?  This scene reminds me of how the goblins in human skin would all show up and gather in numbers to witness when death was about to happen.  All those cops showing up to see the show remind me of that.

/That was a very sad read
//I'm sure the cops are patting themselves on the back for 'resolving' the situation
///can't believe they didn't murder the dog, too


And if it's a last resort, a lot of the time they'll show up too late to actually do anything about it. Or they'll shoot the wrong person, and/or your pets. But hey, it's OK, because they "feared for their life".
 
2017-07-17 08:03:01 AM  

Nidiot: his name is my name too: Nidiot: I read that whole piece trying to find the bit that justified why the police were even there in the first place.

There wasn't one.

one of them called for a wellness check.

A wellness check is suitable for someone who hasn't been seen alive for a while, not for someone who went to their room asking to be left alone.


never argued that point.  it's what was in the article.
 
2017-07-17 08:04:26 AM  

lucksi: his name is my name too: lucksi: cman: lucksi: i always enjoy reading how such things are handled in second/third world countries. Makes me appreciate our police force more

Deutschland uber alles

Are you an expat living there, or are you native?

it's funny how you people know such things, yet elect a leader running on that platform

uh no... we people didn't, we people elected Hillary by 3 million more votes than the derp brigade.  The EC abdicated their duty and elected the demagogue which is outside of the people's control.

yeah, it's not like you have historical precedent that some peoples vote only count for 3 fifth...


I don't know how to break this to you, this is 2017 not 1955.  You might want to update your calendar.
 
2017-07-17 08:05:03 AM  

doglover: Nidiot: Skin tone is now irrelevant.

Well fark.

They can't even not shoot blonde chicks!?!?!

I take it back. ONLY CALL THE POLICE IN AMERICA IF YOU WANT TO DIE. THEY WILL F*CK AND OR KILL YOU.

911? More like 187.


Even if they have decided all citizens simply exist as target practice, they need to consider where they are when the go all shooty shooty bang bang. This cop probably made himself and his partner deaf, at least temporarily: "Damond, in her pajamas, went to the driver's side door and was talking to the driver. The officer in the passenger seat pulled his gun and shot Damond through the driver's side door, sources said."
 
2017-07-17 08:06:10 AM  

vudukungfu: Want someone dead? Call the cops to check on them.
Pig be all like " let's kill this mofo cause we can"


They're already willing to die, so it's like a freebie.
 
2017-07-17 08:09:26 AM  

Nidiot: Even if they have decided all citizens simply exist as target practice, they need to consider where they are when the go all shooty shooty bang bang. This cop probably made himself and his partner deaf,

www.quickmeme.com
 
2017-07-17 08:12:19 AM  

doglover: cman: Lesson learned: Don't call the cops for a suicidal person

Or ever, really.

The only reason you should call the police is to kill negros. That's not what police are supposed to be, just what they've become. If you need negros murdered, call the police. If you need ANYTHING else, call someone else.

Also if you are black , or even have a heavy tan, and the police show up... GET THE HELL OUTTA THERE!


Or if you're a hot, Australian, white female yoga instructor calling to report a possible assault...

http://www.rawstory.com/2017/07/minnesota-cops-fatally-shoot-yoga-tea​c​her-who-called-911-to-report-assault/
 
2017-07-17 08:12:53 AM  

lucksi: i always enjoy reading how such things are handled in second/third world countries. Makes me appreciate our police force more


 By our police force are you referring to the Gestapo or the Stasi?
 
2017-07-17 08:14:19 AM  

lucksi: cman: lucksi: i always enjoy reading how such things are handled in second/third world countries. Makes me appreciate our police force more

Deutschland uber alles

Are you an expat living there, or are you native?

it's funny how you people know such things, yet elect a leader running on that platform


 Your grandparents did it.
 
2017-07-17 08:14:54 AM  
DAMN IT!

Never NOT read the entire thread before posting. Apologies for the duplication of comment effort.
 
2017-07-17 08:15:49 AM  

his name is my name too: Nidiot: his name is my name too: Nidiot: I read that whole piece trying to find the bit that justified why the police were even there in the first place.

There wasn't one.

one of them called for a wellness check.

A wellness check is suitable for someone who hasn't been seen alive for a while, not for someone who went to their room asking to be left alone.

never argued that point.  it's what was in the article.


Fair point. It was still a mistake to call for that, I hope they know not to do it again.
 
2017-07-17 08:16:25 AM  
It says his ex-girlfriend called the cops for a welfare check, not his parents.
 
2017-07-17 08:16:45 AM  

lucksi: his name is my name too: lucksi: cman: lucksi: i always enjoy reading how such things are handled in second/third world countries. Makes me appreciate our police force more

Deutschland uber alles

Are you an expat living there, or are you native?

it's funny how you people know such things, yet elect a leader running on that platform

uh no... we people didn't, we people elected Hillary by 3 million more votes than the derp brigade.  The EC abdicated their duty and elected the demagogue which is outside of the people's control.

yeah, it's not like you have historical precedent that some peoples vote only count for 3 fifth...


 And it's not like your country has a precedent for counting the voting populous as negative 6 million.
 
2017-07-17 08:17:00 AM  

Ker_Thwap: My first thought would be to call a suicide prevention hotline, unless of course I suspected that my child with the gun was likely to take out a few other people including myself, neighbors, ex girlfriends, etc.; at which point the responsible thing would be to call the police.

  So, the parents are fearful for their own lives, and the police aren't allowed to be fearful for their own lives and take precautions like wearing body armor?  The parents just expected a Hollywood ending where a kindly old police officer takes off the vest, risks his/her own life and smoothly says the perfect words, that perfectly penetrate the angst of the would be suicide.

The guy shot himself, there's very little the police could have done to prevent that.  No one else got shot, that's a positive outcome.


They armored vehicle was a nice touch. And the multiple town-forces.
You really don't think they over-reacted?
 
2017-07-17 08:17:49 AM  

Nidiot: his name is my name too: Nidiot: his name is my name too: Nidiot: I read that whole piece trying to find the bit that justified why the police were even there in the first place.

There wasn't one.

one of them called for a wellness check.

A wellness check is suitable for someone who hasn't been seen alive for a while, not for someone who went to their room asking to be left alone.

never argued that point.  it's what was in the article.

Fair point. It was still a mistake to call for that, I hope they know not to do it again.


I don't think they have any more children that need killin' so I doubt it.
 
2017-07-17 08:18:28 AM  

cman: Keyser_Soze_Death: cman: Lesson learned: Don't call the cops for a suicidal person

Fixed.

If someone was trying to break into my place, I'm gonna call the cops. They do have their uses even tho many of them can be assholes.


Why?  By the time the cops show the crook will be long gone.  Make lots of noise, turn on some lights.  If they still won't stop, get the fark out of the house.
 
2017-07-17 08:20:08 AM  

Technoir: DAMN IT!

Never NOT read the entire thread before posting. Apologies for the duplication of comment effort.


No, it's a good call.  I'm glad it was what you thought of too when you read that post.

For some reason that story has not been deemed worthy of fark's main page, and it deserves to be. We should link it as much as we can.
 
2017-07-17 08:21:26 AM  

mgshamster: It says his ex-girlfriend called the cops for a welfare check, not his parents.


Wow, she must have really hated him.
 
2017-07-17 08:30:17 AM  
What people say: "I'm so worried about someone."

What police hear: "Tactical range is open!"
 
2017-07-17 08:32:59 AM  

cman: Keyser_Soze_Death: cman: Lesson learned: Don't call the cops for a suicidal person

Fixed.

If someone was trying to break into my place, I'm gonna call the cops. They do have their uses even tho many of them can be assholes.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/07/17/bride-t​o​-be-called-911-for-help-and-was-fatally-shot-by-a-minneapolis-police-o​fficer/
 
2017-07-17 08:34:09 AM  

Schmerd1948: Ker_Thwap: My first thought would be to call a suicide prevention hotline, unless of course I suspected that my child with the gun was likely to take out a few other people including myself, neighbors, ex girlfriends, etc.; at which point the responsible thing would be to call the police.

  So, the parents are fearful for their own lives, and the police aren't allowed to be fearful for their own lives and take precautions like wearing body armor?  The parents just expected a Hollywood ending where a kindly old police officer takes off the vest, risks his/her own life and smoothly says the perfect words, that perfectly penetrate the angst of the would be suicide.

The guy shot himself, there's very little the police could have done to prevent that.  No one else got shot, that's a positive outcome.

They armored vehicle was a nice touch. And the multiple town-forces.
You really don't think they over-reacted?


My then wife passed out and thumped to the floor one night.  I called 911.  Within 10 minutes there were 30 local volunteer firemen cluttering up my house, clogging the parking spaces, so that by the time the ambulance arrived, it had no where to park.  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯   Responders get bored.  At worst, it was a giant waste of funding.

So, yes.  You're right, it does seem to be an over-reaction.  Better than an under-reaction, where innocents got killed as well.  Did the over-reaction directly lead to the suicide? Dubious.  There was a massive life long chain of events that led to the suicide.  It's a complex issue, and it's a bit insensitive to pretend it's a single issue concern that can be solved with a snap of the fingers and a few magic words in every case.
 
2017-07-17 08:35:53 AM  

cpubus: "Don't back me into a corner," his father remembers Austin saying. "Because I'll make it go away in four seconds."
To Russell Reeves, the meaning was clear - Austin would hurt himself if he wasn't left in peace. Stunned and afraid, Reeves dialed the Hingham police just after 10 p.m. to ask for help.

So the meaning was clear... yet he calls the police.

In the hall upstairs, Austin's mother spoke to him through his locked bedroom door. "Whatever's happening," Kate Harrison says she called to her son, "I love you, and we can work it out."

Then immediately start pestering him.
I get the feeling they never actually leave him the fark alone


The parents basically murdered him.  He told them to just leave him the fark alone, so the farkwads call the police.  His parents DESERVE to live the rest of their lives with guilt and pain over his death that they caused.
 
2017-07-17 08:37:42 AM  
The cops are not your friend. They are an occasional necessary evil and their unthinking, thuggish, militarism has made it so that when they aren't necessary, they are still pretty evil.
 
2017-07-17 08:38:27 AM  
Yep... don't call the cops if you want something settled... call them if you want something ended. Because they WILL end it, one way or another.

/Gods, after reading that other article, I cannot believe I moved to such a dangerous city... and people think the south is dangerous and bigoted...
//seen more snotty, self-obsessed white people up here than in 20 years living in Tennessee (not from there)...
///I just hope some sanity gets restored before good people are left with little choice but to return the favor in kind...
 
2017-07-17 08:42:51 AM  
Your kid has mental problems, snaps without warning, indicates he's going to kill himself.... so you call the police?  Why?  What magic do you want them to perform to cure him?  They're going to be more concerned that a mentally ill guy has a gun and will turn it on others.  And why does someone diagnosed with mental illness own a gun?  Dad didn't seem to have a problem with that.

You want to help him?  Then do something yourself.  Why would you call to say your kid is acting dangerously, then say everything to deny it when the police get there?  Get him some help from medical professionals.  Don't try to pawn it off on others, then biatch when it doesn't go the way you wanted.

It's almost like some people need the drama.  They won't do anything themselves, but like to throw the blame around when things go badly.   The kid would have probably shot himself anyways.... but now they can claim it someone else's fault.  That way they can continue to be delusional about how great their son was and how he was so safe to be around.

Ridiculous.  If so many people hate the police, why do they continue to call them with nonsense?  Try taking care of your own issues.
 
2017-07-17 08:44:31 AM  

cman: Keyser_Soze_Death: cman: Lesson learned: Don't call the cops for a suicidal person

Fixed.

If someone was trying to break into my place, I'm gonna call the cops.


Then you should get your affairs in order. We look forward to reading about your tragic demise on fark.
 
2017-07-17 08:45:02 AM  

LordJiro: America's police system is broken. Many (if not most) cops have absolutely no idea how to deescalate a situation, and those that do often get reprimanded for talking people down instead of gunning down the "threat". And our legal system has repeatedly told police that if they even feel a twinge of 'fear', they're completely justified in killing someone, no matter how little of a threat was posed, or how cooperative the victim was.

The entire system needs to be rebuilt from the ground up.


No, America is broken.  People need to grow up and take responsibility for themselves.
 
2017-07-17 08:45:45 AM  
This story rolled on like a short story out of Reader's Digest.  It was too long for me to read.

But I get the gist.  It was sad.

Don't call the cops to check on someone and tell the cops that he has a gun.
 
2017-07-17 08:45:48 AM  

Ker_Thwap: Schmerd1948: Ker_Thwap: My first thought would be to call a suicide prevention hotline, unless of course I suspected that my child with the gun was likely to take out a few other people including myself, neighbors, ex girlfriends, etc.; at which point the responsible thing would be to call the police.

  So, the parents are fearful for their own lives, and the police aren't allowed to be fearful for their own lives and take precautions like wearing body armor?  The parents just expected a Hollywood ending where a kindly old police officer takes off the vest, risks his/her own life and smoothly says the perfect words, that perfectly penetrate the angst of the would be suicide.

The guy shot himself, there's very little the police could have done to prevent that.  No one else got shot, that's a positive outcome.

They armored vehicle was a nice touch. And the multiple town-forces.
You really don't think they over-reacted?

My then wife passed out and thumped to the floor one night.  I called 911.  Within 10 minutes there were 30 local volunteer firemen cluttering up my house, clogging the parking spaces, so that by the time the ambulance arrived, it had no where to park.  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯   Responders get bored.  At worst, it was a giant waste of funding.

So, yes.  You're right, it does seem to be an over-reaction.  Better than an under-reaction, where innocents got killed as well.  Did the over-reaction directly lead to the suicide? Dubious.  There was a massive life long chain of events that led to the suicide.  It's a complex issue, and it's a bit insensitive to pretend it's a single issue concern that can be solved with a snap of the fingers and a few magic words in every case.


Here's a thought, maybe if everyone had just left the poor young man alone, like he asked, to spend a bit of time upstairs in his room, with only his dog for company, he might have had a chance to have a bit of a think, perhaps take a nap, and then he may just have come back downstairs feeling better and ready to get on with life. Sheesh.
 
2017-07-17 08:46:03 AM  

Jesus McSordid: cman:
If someone was trying to break into my place, I'm gonna call the cops. They do have their uses even tho many of them can be assholes.

Even that isn't safe, apparently.


The only time I can see myself calling the police is if I need a police report for insurance purposes.
 
2017-07-17 08:49:09 AM  

tukatz: Your kid has mental problems, snaps without warning, indicates he's going to kill himself.... so you call the police?  Why?  What magic do you want them to perform to cure him?  They're going to be more concerned that a mentally ill guy has a gun and will turn it on others.  And why does someone diagnosed with mental illness own a gun?  Dad didn't seem to have a problem with that.

You want to help him?  Then do something yourself.  Why would you call to say your kid is acting dangerously, then say everything to deny it when the police get there?  Get him some help from medical professionals.  Don't try to pawn it off on others, then biatch when it doesn't go the way you wanted.

It's almost like some people need the drama.  They won't do anything themselves, but like to throw the blame around when things go badly.   The kid would have probably shot himself anyways.... but now they can claim it someone else's fault.  That way they can continue to be delusional about how great their son was and how he was so safe to be around.

Ridiculous.  If so many people hate the police, why do they continue to call them with nonsense?  Try taking care of your own issues.


It wasn't the parents that called, it was the ex-girlfriend.
 
2017-07-17 08:51:05 AM  

casual disregard: What is the primary purpose of police? Beyond paperwork and investigations, it's not protecting the public. No, the primary purpose of the police is to neutralize threats. Insofar as the police are concerned, and the people who voted in a police force with that modus operandi, it can only be seen as mission accomplished.

If you own guns the police will kill you if they perceive you as a threat. If you are having a mental breakdown the police will kill you if they perceive you as a threat. If you are nonwhite the police will kill you if they perceive you as a threat (if you won't listen to me, at least give Chris Rock a chance, might just save your life). Heck sometimes they even shoot white people, but they try to keep it out of the news (offer may not be valid in Zimbabwe).

How "duh" can we get on this? How many more times do we have to see a police killing before we simply accept it not only as reality but as the political will of the democratic republican populace? I'd bet a dollar at the casino that this victim's parents voted for the very politicians that enabled this sort of environment to emerge. But not more than a dollar. I dislike games of chance even when rigged in my favor.

It's all about perception.


You're right.  It IS all about perception.  Like yours is apparently warped by your personal hatred of law enforcement.   Not everyone feels that way.  In fact, many people see the ever growing violence and crime and are afraid.  They also know that the police have a more violent and rebellious society to deal with.  And that they aren't paid to die over someone's inability to follow commands or lack of control.
 
2017-07-17 08:52:07 AM  

Nidiot: cpubus: "Don't back me into a corner," his father remembers Austin saying. "Because I'll make it go away in four seconds."
To Russell Reeves, the meaning was clear - Austin would hurt himself if he wasn't left in peace. Stunned and afraid, Reeves dialed the Hingham police just after 10 p.m. to ask for help.

So the meaning was clear... yet he calls the police.

In the hall upstairs, Austin's mother spoke to him through his locked bedroom door. "Whatever's happening," Kate Harrison says she called to her son, "I love you, and we can work it out."

Then immediately start pestering him.
I get the feeling they never actually leave him the fark alone

Yeah. Thanks Mom and Dad, you sure handled that well. Of course you wont see how you contributed to the death of your own son there at all.


you know it's kind of a darwin, they being too stupid to leave their son alone for a moment and decide to swat him instead. Hopefully they don't have any other children and their defective genes will die out
 
2017-07-17 08:54:24 AM  

Jesus McSordid: cman:
If someone was trying to break into my place, I'm gonna call the cops. They do have their uses even tho many of them can be assholes.

Even that isn't safe, apparently.


How many are assholes?  Do you have some percentages on that?  It sounds like you must have met many of them in order to draw such a conclusion.  Otherwise it would just be extremely exaggerated.
 
2017-07-17 08:55:10 AM  
Wait, I may be wrong. The article says the ex called early on, but also says the father called. What a clusterfark all around.
 
2017-07-17 08:56:13 AM  

tukatz: casual disregard: What is the primary purpose of police? Beyond paperwork and investigations, it's not protecting the public. No, the primary purpose of the police is to neutralize threats. Insofar as the police are concerned, and the people who voted in a police force with that modus operandi, it can only be seen as mission accomplished.

If you own guns the police will kill you if they perceive you as a threat. If you are having a mental breakdown the police will kill you if they perceive you as a threat. If you are nonwhite the police will kill you if they perceive you as a threat (if you won't listen to me, at least give Chris Rock a chance, might just save your life). Heck sometimes they even shoot white people, but they try to keep it out of the news (offer may not be valid in Zimbabwe).

How "duh" can we get on this? How many more times do we have to see a police killing before we simply accept it not only as reality but as the political will of the democratic republican populace? I'd bet a dollar at the casino that this victim's parents voted for the very politicians that enabled this sort of environment to emerge. But not more than a dollar. I dislike games of chance even when rigged in my favor.

It's all about perception.

You're right.  It IS all about perception.  Like yours is apparently warped by your personal hatred of law enforcement.   Not everyone feels that way.  In fact, many people see the ever growing violence and crime and are afraid.  They also know that the police have a more violent and rebellious society to deal with.  And that they aren't paid to die over someone's inability to follow commands or lack of control.


So what did this unarmed woman in her pj's do while talking to the police she called for, that could be described as an inability to follow commands or lack of control? http://www.news.com.au/world/north-america/shooting-death-of​-justine-d​amond-in-minneapolis-sparks-calls-for-federal-investigation/news-story​/2d2486888c0c6d8fa1ca3d8f4bc7df91
 
2017-07-17 08:56:26 AM  

TOSViolation: cpubus: "Don't back me into a corner," his father remembers Austin saying. "Because I'll make it go away in four seconds."
To Russell Reeves, the meaning was clear - Austin would hurt himself if he wasn't left in peace. Stunned and afraid, Reeves dialed the Hingham police just after 10 p.m. to ask for help.

So the meaning was clear... yet he calls the police.

In the hall upstairs, Austin's mother spoke to him through his locked bedroom door. "Whatever's happening," Kate Harrison says she called to her son, "I love you, and we can work it out."

Then immediately start pestering him.
I get the feeling they never actually leave him the fark alone

The parents basically murdered him.  He told them to just leave him the fark alone, so the farkwads call the police.  His parents DESERVE to live the rest of their lives with guilt and pain over his death that they caused.


you, sir, are an idiot. A heartless idiot. It was the girlfriend who called the suicide hotline. They called the police. The mom went up to tell the boy she loved him. Does any of that sound like the parents MURDERED the son and DESERVE to blah blah blah.?
Idiot.
 
2017-07-17 08:57:18 AM  

doglover: cman: Lesson learned: Don't call the cops for a suicidal person

Or ever, really.

The only reason you should call the police is to kill negros. That's not what police are supposed to be, just what they've become. If you need negros murdered, call the police. If you need ANYTHING else, call someone else.

Also if you are black , or even have a heavy tan, and the police show up... GET THE HELL OUTTA THERE!


Wow, your neighbors must love you.
 
2017-07-17 08:57:27 AM  

Ostman: Nidiot: cpubus: "Don't back me into a corner," his father remembers Austin saying. "Because I'll make it go away in four seconds."
To Russell Reeves, the meaning was clear - Austin would hurt himself if he wasn't left in peace. Stunned and afraid, Reeves dialed the Hingham police just after 10 p.m. to ask for help.

So the meaning was clear... yet he calls the police.

In the hall upstairs, Austin's mother spoke to him through his locked bedroom door. "Whatever's happening," Kate Harrison says she called to her son, "I love you, and we can work it out."

Then immediately start pestering him.
I get the feeling they never actually leave him the fark alone

Yeah. Thanks Mom and Dad, you sure handled that well. Of course you wont see how you contributed to the death of your own son there at all.

Yeah, when a loved one goes up to a room to be alone with a gun and is visibly distraught, everyone acts completely 100% rationally. Nobody could ever panic and make a one poor decision, which they will regret forever in hindsight.

/Way to kick some one when they're down.
//Glad at least that the cops didn't gun the dog down in front of the parents.


It's fun to blame the guy and his parents and not the police, who decided to pretend to be Rambo for no good reason.
 
2017-07-17 08:58:13 AM  

Nidiot: cpubus: "Don't back me into a corner," his father remembers Austin saying. "Because I'll make it go away in four seconds."
To Russell Reeves, the meaning was clear - Austin would hurt himself if he wasn't left in peace. Stunned and afraid, Reeves dialed the Hingham police just after 10 p.m. to ask for help.

So the meaning was clear... yet he calls the police.

In the hall upstairs, Austin's mother spoke to him through his locked bedroom door. "Whatever's happening," Kate Harrison says she called to her son, "I love you, and we can work it out."

Then immediately start pestering him.
I get the feeling they never actually leave him the fark alone

Yeah. Thanks Mom and Dad, you sure handled that well. Of course you wont see how you contributed to the death of your own son there at all.


Seems like you are letting the ex-girlfriend off the hook.

She's really to blame because she's the one who called the police in the first place.

Maybe if she had simply let him get on with life, rather than trying to make herself feel better through maintaining contact (and essentially ripping his scabs off) this wouldn't have happened.
 
2017-07-17 08:58:30 AM  

tukatz: doglover: cman: Lesson learned: Don't call the cops for a suicidal person

Or ever, really.

The only reason you should call the police is to kill negros. That's not what police are supposed to be, just what they've become. If you need negros murdered, call the police. If you need ANYTHING else, call someone else.

Also if you are black , or even have a heavy tan, and the police show up... GET THE HELL OUTTA THERE!

Wow, your neighbors must love you.


Do your parents know you're using their computer?
 
2017-07-17 08:59:32 AM  

lucksi: i always enjoy reading how such things are handled in second/third world countries. Makes me appreciate our police force more


Things like this have happened in Germany as well even if the cops here are generally less trigger happy.. Don't forget the Tennessee Eisenberg case...
 
2017-07-17 08:59:40 AM  

Nidiot: Ker_Thwap: Schmerd1948: Ker_Thwap: My first thought would be to call a suicide prevention hotline, unless of course I suspected that my child with the gun was likely to take out a few other people including myself, neighbors, ex girlfriends, etc.; at which point the responsible thing would be to call the police.

  So, the parents are fearful for their own lives, and the police aren't allowed to be fearful for their own lives and take precautions like wearing body armor?  The parents just expected a Hollywood ending where a kindly old police officer takes off the vest, risks his/her own life and smoothly says the perfect words, that perfectly penetrate the angst of the would be suicide.

The guy shot himself, there's very little the police could have done to prevent that.  No one else got shot, that's a positive outcome.

They armored vehicle was a nice touch. And the multiple town-forces.
You really don't think they over-reacted?

My then wife passed out and thumped to the floor one night.  I called 911.  Within 10 minutes there were 30 local volunteer firemen cluttering up my house, clogging the parking spaces, so that by the time the ambulance arrived, it had no where to park.  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯   Responders get bored.  At worst, it was a giant waste of funding.

So, yes.  You're right, it does seem to be an over-reaction.  Better than an under-reaction, where innocents got killed as well.  Did the over-reaction directly lead to the suicide? Dubious.  There was a massive life long chain of events that led to the suicide.  It's a complex issue, and it's a bit insensitive to pretend it's a single issue concern that can be solved with a snap of the fingers and a few magic words in every case.

Here's a thought, maybe if everyone had just left the poor young man alone, like he asked, to spend a bit of time upstairs in his room, with only his dog for company, he might have had a chance to have a bit of a think, perhaps take a nap, and then he may just have come back downstair ...


Wide range of possibilities on the "could of should of scale."  Let's go with a nap, then he came downstairs, happy and refreshed with no problems in the world, decided to become a scientist and would have been the one to cure cancer.  Sure, that's the most probable situation.  I'll double check later with my Magic 8 Ball.

http://www.healthline.com/health/suicide-and-suicidal-behavior#overvi​e​w1   There are many causes/predictors of suicide.  I don't believe anywhere on that list therapy is "leave them alone and let them take a nice nap."  It's a complex problem, and there is no single solution.
 
2017-07-17 09:00:40 AM  
If you felt that he just needed to be allowed to go to sleep, why did you call the cops...?
 
2017-07-17 09:00:58 AM  

Arachnophobe: It wasn't the parents that called, it was the ex-girlfriend.


img.fark.net

The parents did not make the call. No word on whether the boyfriend played the "I'll kill myself if you leave" card, but if he did then there's no cause to blame the ex either; calling the cops is what you do in that situation.
 
2017-07-17 09:02:26 AM  

webron: It's fun to blame the guy and his parents and not the police, who decided to pretend to be Rambo for no good reason


More like the Waffen-SS.  Talk about a disproportionate response...
 
2017-07-17 09:03:28 AM  

mgshamster: It says his ex-girlfriend called the cops for a welfare check, not his parents.


Everyone keeps forgetting this.

Most guys think differently than most gals do.

In general, guys don't want to talk about it - they want to mope some and get on with life. Talking about it and "being friends" is basically rebooting that process constantly.

Unless you can cheer on an ex when they tell you that you've found someone new and the same is true in the other direction, the whole "let's keep in touch" or "let's be friends" is simply not a good idea. A general head nod of acknowledgement in public is good enough.
 
2017-07-17 09:04:20 AM  

Schmerd1948: Ker_Thwap: My first thought would be to call a suicide prevention hotline, unless of course I suspected that my child with the gun was likely to take out a few other people including myself, neighbors, ex girlfriends, etc.; at which point the responsible thing would be to call the police.

  So, the parents are fearful for their own lives, and the police aren't allowed to be fearful for their own lives and take precautions like wearing body armor?  The parents just expected a Hollywood ending where a kindly old police officer takes off the vest, risks his/her own life and smoothly says the perfect words, that perfectly penetrate the angst of the would be suicide.

The guy shot himself, there's very little the police could have done to prevent that.  No one else got shot, that's a positive outcome.

They armored vehicle was a nice touch. And the multiple town-forces.
You really don't think they over-reacted?


If they have the toys, they want to use them.  Imagine having a tank in your garage.  It's just sitting there for an emergency. You don't really need it, but you have it anyway.  If you get an excuse to use it, no matter how thin, you will.
 
2017-07-17 09:06:29 AM  

Ker_Thwap: Schmerd1948: Ker_Thwap: My first thought would be to call a suicide prevention hotline, unless of course I suspected that my child with the gun was likely to take out a few other people including myself, neighbors, ex girlfriends, etc.; at which point the responsible thing would be to call the police.

  So, the parents are fearful for their own lives, and the police aren't allowed to be fearful for their own lives and take precautions like wearing body armor?  The parents just expected a Hollywood ending where a kindly old police officer takes off the vest, risks his/her own life and smoothly says the perfect words, that perfectly penetrate the angst of the would be suicide.

The guy shot himself, there's very little the police could have done to prevent that.  No one else got shot, that's a positive outcome.

They armored vehicle was a nice touch. And the multiple town-forces.
You really don't think they over-reacted?

My then wife passed out and thumped to the floor one night.  I called 911.  Within 10 minutes there were 30 local volunteer firemen cluttering up my house, clogging the parking spaces, so that by the time the ambulance arrived, it had no where to park.  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯   Responders get bored.  At worst, it was a giant waste of funding.

So, yes.  You're right, it does seem to be an over-reaction.  Better than an under-reaction, where innocents got killed as well.  Did the over-reaction directly lead to the suicide? Dubious.  There was a massive life long chain of events that led to the suicide.  It's a complex issue, and it's a bit insensitive to pretend it's a single issue concern that can be solved with a snap of the fingers and a few magic words in every case.


Seriously, you don't think that being surrounded by an army has any effect on this guy pulling the trigger?  That is shockingly naive.
 
2017-07-17 09:06:30 AM  

gar1013: Nidiot: cpubus: "Don't back me into a corner," his father remembers Austin saying. "Because I'll make it go away in four seconds."
To Russell Reeves, the meaning was clear - Austin would hurt himself if he wasn't left in peace. Stunned and afraid, Reeves dialed the Hingham police just after 10 p.m. to ask for help.

So the meaning was clear... yet he calls the police.

In the hall upstairs, Austin's mother spoke to him through his locked bedroom door. "Whatever's happening," Kate Harrison says she called to her son, "I love you, and we can work it out."

Then immediately start pestering him.
I get the feeling they never actually leave him the fark alone

Yeah. Thanks Mom and Dad, you sure handled that well. Of course you wont see how you contributed to the death of your own son there at all.

Seems like you are letting the ex-girlfriend off the hook.

She's really to blame because she's the one who called the police in the first place.

Maybe if she had simply let him get on with life, rather than trying to make herself feel better through maintaining contact (and essentially ripping his scabs off) this wouldn't have happened.


No one seems to be terribly clear on who, or how many people called for the police, which is fair enough, the article was an epic that was longer than War and Peace.

I blame everyone who called the police instead of letting the poor dude just chill out a bit on his own like he asked.

The police just did what they usually do. Don't call them unless you want something or someone shot.
 
2017-07-17 09:07:07 AM  

Schmerd1948: you, sir, are an idiot. A heartless idiot. It was the girlfriend who called the suicide hotline. They called the police. The mom went up to tell the boy she loved him. Does any of that sound like the parents MURDERED the son and DESERVE to blah blah blah.?
Idiot.


Read it again.  The FATHER called the police to come help.

"To Russell Reeves, the meaning was clear - Austin would hurt himself if he wasn't left in peace. Stunned and afraid, Reeves dialed the Hingham police just after 10 p.m. to ask for help."

The kid had asked multiple times for them to just leave him the fark alone, but the dumbasses couldn't get that through their thick skulls.
 
2017-07-17 09:10:48 AM  

Unoriginal_Username: cman: Lesson learned: Don't call the cops for a suicidal person

The problem is, if you call the suicide hotline, they will call the cops.
Happened to friends of mine when their daughter called.
It didn't end like this thankfully.


Do they want people to stop calling suicide hotlines?  Because that is exactly how you get people to stop calling suicide hotlines.
 
2017-07-17 09:11:30 AM  

cpubus: "Don't back me into a corner," his father remembers Austin saying. "Because I'll make it go away in four seconds."
To Russell Reeves, the meaning was clear - Austin would hurt himself if he wasn't left in peace. Stunned and afraid, Reeves dialed the Hingham police just after 10 p.m. to ask for help.

So the meaning was clear... yet he calls the police.

In the hall upstairs, Austin's mother spoke to him through his locked bedroom door. "Whatever's happening," Kate Harrison says she called to her son, "I love you, and we can work it out."

Then immediately start pestering him.
I get the feeling they never actually leave him the fark alone


"we love you son, so we called the cops on you."

I'm sure that brightened his mood.
 
2017-07-17 09:13:03 AM  

tukatz: casual disregard: What is the primary purpose of police? Beyond paperwork and investigations, it's not protecting the public. No, the primary purpose of the police is to neutralize threats. Insofar as the police are concerned, and the people who voted in a police force with that modus operandi, it can only be seen as mission accomplished.

If you own guns the police will kill you if they perceive you as a threat. If you are having a mental breakdown the police will kill you if they perceive you as a threat. If you are nonwhite the police will kill you if they perceive you as a threat (if you won't listen to me, at least give Chris Rock a chance, might just save your life). Heck sometimes they even shoot white people, but they try to keep it out of the news (offer may not be valid in Zimbabwe).

How "duh" can we get on this? How many more times do we have to see a police killing before we simply accept it not only as reality but as the political will of the democratic republican populace? I'd bet a dollar at the casino that this victim's parents voted for the very politicians that enabled this sort of environment to emerge. But not more than a dollar. I dislike games of chance even when rigged in my favor.

It's all about perception.

You're right.  It IS all about perception.  Like yours is apparently warped by your personal hatred of law enforcement.   Not everyone feels that way.  In fact, many people see the ever growing violence and crime and are afraid.  They also know that the police have a more violent and rebellious society to deal with.  And that they aren't paid to die over someone's inability to follow commands or lack of control.


What "ever growing violence and crime"?
 
2017-07-17 09:13:53 AM  

Nidiot: I blame everyone who called the police instead of letting the poor dude just chill out a bit on his own like he asked. The police just did what they usually do. Don't call them unless you want something or someone shot.


Bears repeating. More and more, the police are a path to escalation, not safety.
 
2017-07-17 09:15:40 AM  

his name is my name too: lucksi: his name is my name too: lucksi: cman: lucksi: i always enjoy reading how such things are handled in second/third world countries. Makes me appreciate our police force more

Deutschland uber alles

Are you an expat living there, or are you native?

it's funny how you people know such things, yet elect a leader running on that platform

uh no... we people didn't, we people elected Hillary by 3 million more votes than the derp brigade.  The EC abdicated their duty and elected the demagogue which is outside of the people's control.

yeah, it's not like you have historical precedent that some peoples vote only count for 3 fifth...

I don't know how to break this to you, this is 2017 not 1955.  You might want to update your calendar.


your answer is funny considering the Deutschland über alles was just used to try to discredit my statement. now who needs to update their calendar?
 
2017-07-17 09:18:00 AM  

Nidiot: doglover: cman: Lesson learned: Don't call the cops for a suicidal person

Or ever, really.

The only reason you should call the police is to kill negros. That's not what police are supposed to be, just what they've become. If you need negros murdered, call the police. If you need ANYTHING else, call someone else.

Also if you are black , or even have a heavy tan, and the police show up... GET THE HELL OUTTA THERE!

They just shot an unarmed blonde white Australian woman in Minneapolis, after she called them for help http://www.startribune.com/woman-killed-in-officer-involved-shoot​ing-in-south-minneapolis/434782213/#1 so you have to update that advice. Skin tone is now irrelevant.

Don't call the police unless you want someone shot.


WTF!?!?!?!?!?

Seriously, WTF!?!?!?!?!?!?

We have problems in this country.
 
2017-07-17 09:20:14 AM  

Nidiot: doglover: cman: Lesson learned: Don't call the cops for a suicidal person

Or ever, really.

The only reason you should call the police is to kill negros. That's not what police are supposed to be, just what they've become. If you need negros murdered, call the police. If you need ANYTHING else, call someone else.

Also if you are black , or even have a heavy tan, and the police show up... GET THE HELL OUTTA THERE!

They just shot an unarmed blonde white Australian woman in Minneapolis, after she called them for help http://www.startribune.com/woman-killed-in-officer-involved-shoot​ing-in-south-minneapolis/434782213/#1 so you have to update that advice. Skin tone is now irrelevant.

Don't call the police unless you want someone shot.


I hate to say this, but that is exactly what needs to keep happening. It's not going to get fixed until it really affects white people. It already is but the national media is, once again, terrible at their jobs. So it needs to happen more because people are collectively stupid and won't seen to change things until they themselves are hurt by it.
 
2017-07-17 09:21:12 AM  

tukatz: You're right.  It IS all about perception.  Like yours is apparently warped by your personal hatred of law enforcement.   Not everyone feels that way.  In fact, many people see the ever growing violence and crime and are afraid.  They also know that the police have a more violent and rebellious society to deal with.  And that they aren't paid to die over someone's inability to follow commands or lack of control.


Yet, statistically, we're in one of the safest, lowest-crime periods in American history. But do go on about the Boogeyman they keep harping on about on Fox News.
 
2017-07-17 09:23:18 AM  

webron: Ker_Thwap: Schmerd1948: Ker_Thwap: My first thought would be to call a suicide prevention hotline, unless of course I suspected that my child with the gun was likely to take out a few other people including myself, neighbors, ex girlfriends, etc.; at which point the responsible thing would be to call the police.

  So, the parents are fearful for their own lives, and the police aren't allowed to be fearful for their own lives and take precautions like wearing body armor?  The parents just expected a Hollywood ending where a kindly old police officer takes off the vest, risks his/her own life and smoothly says the perfect words, that perfectly penetrate the angst of the would be suicide.

The guy shot himself, there's very little the police could have done to prevent that.  No one else got shot, that's a positive outcome.

They armored vehicle was a nice touch. And the multiple town-forces.
You really don't think they over-reacted?

My then wife passed out and thumped to the floor one night.  I called 911.  Within 10 minutes there were 30 local volunteer firemen cluttering up my house, clogging the parking spaces, so that by the time the ambulance arrived, it had no where to park.  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯   Responders get bored.  At worst, it was a giant waste of funding.

So, yes.  You're right, it does seem to be an over-reaction.  Better than an under-reaction, where innocents got killed as well.  Did the over-reaction directly lead to the suicide? Dubious.  There was a massive life long chain of events that led to the suicide.  It's a complex issue, and it's a bit insensitive to pretend it's a single issue concern that can be solved with a snap of the fingers and a few magic words in every case.

Seriously, you don't think that being surrounded by an army has any effect on this guy pulling the trigger?  That is shockingly naive.


It might have.  It might have kept him alive for an extra ten minutes while he checked out the cool tank.

They guy had 26 years of life, of causal events that led up to his suicide.  It's kind of silly to imagine that only the events in the last hours of his life were what caused him to pull the trigger.  Talk about shockingly naive.
 
2017-07-17 09:23:47 AM  
"Don't ever invite a vampire police officer into your house, you silly boy.  It renders you powerless."
 
2017-07-17 09:25:15 AM  
Deal with it yourself, never call the cops.
 
2017-07-17 09:25:50 AM  

Ketchuponsteak: cpubus: "Don't back me into a corner," his father remembers Austin saying. "Because I'll make it go away in four seconds."
To Russell Reeves, the meaning was clear - Austin would hurt himself if he wasn't left in peace. Stunned and afraid, Reeves dialed the Hingham police just after 10 p.m. to ask for help.

So the meaning was clear... yet he calls the police.

In the hall upstairs, Austin's mother spoke to him through his locked bedroom door. "Whatever's happening," Kate Harrison says she called to her son, "I love you, and we can work it out."

Then immediately start pestering him.
I get the feeling they never actually leave him the fark alone

"we love you son, so we called the cops on you."

I'm sure that brightened his mood.


Speaking as a parent of kids this age, I fully understand the father's actions. Frankly, he's in a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation. If he does NOT call and the situation escalates, there may be more than one body, since he knows the kid is armed. If he's the survivor, he still gets to play "what if?" for the rest of his life.

But the police's response was gasoline on a fire. The problem with how most SWAT situations are handle, is the super show of force. It's using a sledgehammer when you need a fly swatter.
 
2017-07-17 09:26:01 AM  
The cops are always looking for a good excuse to play with their toys and put on a big show. Doesn't matter to them if someone dies since there are never any repercussions to their actions.
 
2017-07-17 09:26:42 AM  
I look upon the police as I do bears, sharks and hornets.

An essential part of the ecosystem perhaps, but best if you go out of your way to avoid dealing with them if possible.  That is obeying traffic laws, ensuring you have no illegal items in your vehicle etc.  However, if you still end up get stopped or in involved in a collision just be polite to let the officer have his little power trip and argue your case in traffic court.

Unfortunately, sometimes calling the cops for this particular case was like inviting bears to your picnic.
 
2017-07-17 09:28:47 AM  
Is this the thread where we hate cops, or the thread where only cops should have guns?

We need a bit of column A bad column B me thinks.

Prayers to the family.
 
2017-07-17 09:29:29 AM  

lucksi: i always enjoy reading how such things are handled in second/third world countries. Makes me appreciate our police force more


Super smart guy! You should know how countries are designated as first,.second, and third world! Because your fathers thought it was a good idea to eradicate an entire race of people! Has enough time gone by that your collective guilt and bare sense of national pride allows you to sit on your shiatter, inspect your feces ad nauseum, and thumb your nose at the prospect that the United States is better at being jack booted thugs than the brownshirts ever were?
 
2017-07-17 09:30:03 AM  
If you give them toys, they'll want to play with them.

img.fark.net
 
2017-07-17 09:30:49 AM  

Ker_Thwap: webron: Ker_Thwap: Schmerd1948: Ker_Thwap: My first thought would be to call a suicide prevention hotline, unless of course I suspected that my child with the gun was likely to take out a few other people including myself, neighbors, ex girlfriends, etc.; at which point the responsible thing would be to call the police.

  So, the parents are fearful for their own lives, and the police aren't allowed to be fearful for their own lives and take precautions like wearing body armor?  The parents just expected a Hollywood ending where a kindly old police officer takes off the vest, risks his/her own life and smoothly says the perfect words, that perfectly penetrate the angst of the would be suicide.

The guy shot himself, there's very little the police could have done to prevent that.  No one else got shot, that's a positive outcome.

They armored vehicle was a nice touch. And the multiple town-forces.
You really don't think they over-reacted?

My then wife passed out and thumped to the floor one night.  I called 911.  Within 10 minutes there were 30 local volunteer firemen cluttering up my house, clogging the parking spaces, so that by the time the ambulance arrived, it had no where to park.  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯   Responders get bored.  At worst, it was a giant waste of funding.

So, yes.  You're right, it does seem to be an over-reaction.  Better than an under-reaction, where innocents got killed as well.  Did the over-reaction directly lead to the suicide? Dubious.  There was a massive life long chain of events that led to the suicide.  It's a complex issue, and it's a bit insensitive to pretend it's a single issue concern that can be solved with a snap of the fingers and a few magic words in every case.

Seriously, you don't think that being surrounded by an army has any effect on this guy pulling the trigger?  That is shockingly naive.

It might have.  It might have kept him alive for an extra ten minutes while he checked out the cool tank.

They guy had 26 years of life, of ...


FTFA: "... carpe diem, seize the day - was tattooed in artful letters on his chest. His dog, Faith..." - Yeah, there definitely was some build up to this.
But a police seige ist not the best course of action for a person threatening suicide.
 
2017-07-17 09:30:56 AM  
Candy-gram for Mongeau?
 
2017-07-17 09:36:02 AM  

Another Government Employee: But the police's response was gasoline on a fire. The problem with how most SWAT situations are handle, is the super show of force. It's using a sledgehammer when you need a fly swatter.


Remember when SWAT ("Special Weapons and Tactics") were called in only in situations where typical police tactics weren't enough, like with heavily armed & armored criminals or active terror situations? Yeah. Now, most of what they do is provide "shock and awe" breaches for search warrants, because, hey, why give them all those toys if they can't use 'em, right?

You wanted a security blanket of force, to save you from the scary people. Problem is, your idea of "scary people" went from "domestic terrorist cells" to "pot users", from "heavily armed bank robbers" to "non-white people," and SWAT became the standard instead of the outlier. So, SWAT teams do house breaches on grandmothers now, and you feel comforted because the "War on Drugs" now has foot soldiers.
 
2017-07-17 09:36:11 AM  

Claude Ballse: I dunno. I had a former boss who was going through a tough time with a dying father,a stolen bike, and a nasty break-up who ended up having one of these wellness checks initiated on him. The police came out, spoke with him, and did seize his guns for his own "protection".

Now he was rather embarrassed about the whole situation. Both with how his neighbors now perceived the guy who had all those cop cars show up at his house, let alone how he might be perceived at work.

But you know what? The whole thing went down without incident. He wasnt raised as a spoiled brat who always got his way through threats of self-harm.


I'm betting he was also as white as a sheet, amirite?
 
2017-07-17 09:38:17 AM  

Guairdean: If you give them toys, they'll want to play with them.

[img.fark.net image 824x822]


Thanks Adama!
 
2017-07-17 09:38:32 AM  

Nidiot: doglover: cman: Lesson learned: Don't call the cops for a suicidal person

Or ever, really.

The only reason you should call the police is to kill negros. That's not what police are supposed to be, just what they've become. If you need negros murdered, call the police. If you need ANYTHING else, call someone else.

Also if you are black , or even have a heavy tan, and the police show up... GET THE HELL OUTTA THERE!

They just shot an unarmed blonde white Australian woman in Minneapolis, after she called them for help http://www.startribune.com/woman-killed-in-officer-involved-shoot​ing-in-south-minneapolis/434782213/#1 so you have to update that advice. Skin tone is now irrelevant.

Don't call the police unless you want someone shot.


"Damond, in her pajamas, went to the driver's side door and was talking to the driver. The officer in the passenger seat pulled his gun and shot Damond through the driver's side door, sources said."

img.fark.net
 
2017-07-17 09:38:38 AM  

cman: Keyser_Soze_Death: cman: Lesson learned: Don't call the cops for a suicidal person

Fixed.

If someone was trying to break into my place, I'm gonna call the cops. They do have their uses even tho many of them can be assholes.


But don't have a dog. They will shoot the dog.
 
2017-07-17 09:40:22 AM  

Shadow Blasko: Nevercall the cops if worried about someone's mental health.

Just don't.


So who do you call?  Social services?  Guess what, potentially suicidal person with a firearm?  Social services is going to call the police.  As they should.  What if this guy had decided to kill his parents before killing himself?  Or his ex-girlfriend?

Now, none of this is to say that the police response in this case was proper.  It was horribly handled.

But at the same time, assuming that people with mental challenges and firearms will always be safe on their own is horribly misguided, too.
 
2017-07-17 09:42:48 AM  
 
2017-07-17 09:43:12 AM  

LordJiro: America's police system is broken. Many (if not most) cops have absolutely no idea how to deescalate a situation, and those that do often get reprimanded for talking people down instead of gunning down the "threat". And our legal system has repeatedly told police that if they even feel a twinge of 'fear', they're completely justified in killing someone, no matter how little of a threat was posed, or how cooperative the victim was.

The entire system needs to be rebuilt from the ground up.


Police have been disciplined for not shooting to kill. Fact.
 
2017-07-17 09:43:12 AM  

lucksi: his name is my name too: lucksi: cman: lucksi: i always enjoy reading how such things are handled in second/third world countries. Makes me appreciate our police force more

Deutschland uber alles

Are you an expat living there, or are you native?

it's funny how you people know such things, yet elect a leader running on that platform

uh no... we people didn't, we people elected Hillary by 3 million more votes than the derp brigade.  The EC abdicated their duty and elected the demagogue which is outside of the people's control.

yeah, it's not like you have historical precedent that some peoples vote only count for 3 fifth...


Luckily for you, Germany has a completely clean historical record, so you are free to judge.
 
2017-07-17 09:45:55 AM  

bisi: FTFA: "... carpe diem, seize the day - was tattooed in artful letters on his chest. His dog, Faith..." - Yeah, there definitely was some build up to this.
But a police seige ist not the best course of action for a person threatening suicide.


I've already granted that calling in a tank and multiple SWAT teams was an over-reaction.  We, of course have no idea what the guy said to the first responders.

I agree that a police siege is not the best course for a "reasonable" person threatening suicide.  Wait, what?

We weren't there.  There was an unstable person threatening suicide with a loaded gun.  What is the proper response in that situation?  Would you walk into that room, unarmed and unarmored, and try to talk him down?   Just walk away and let him sleep it off, allowing him to keep his gun, and potentially murder his ex girlfriend the next day?  Maybe they keep a bunch of disposable cops on store in your hometown?  Yeah, send in Officer Fred, he's old and has damned little to live for these days.

It then just become a matter of scale.  Two armored officers would have been fine, but three would have been bad?  How about an even dozen, if by chance the guy talked about taking others with him?  So, yes, at some point it's a bad look for the local PD when they call in a friggin tank.  But let's not pretend that the over cautious response is what killed the guy.
 
2017-07-17 09:45:57 AM  

orangehat: lucksi: his name is my name too: lucksi: cman: lucksi: i always enjoy reading how such things are handled in second/third world countries. Makes me appreciate our police force more

Deutschland uber alles

Are you an expat living there, or are you native?

it's funny how you people know such things, yet elect a leader running on that platform

uh no... we people didn't, we people elected Hillary by 3 million more votes than the derp brigade.  The EC abdicated their duty and elected the demagogue which is outside of the people's control.

yeah, it's not like you have historical precedent that some peoples vote only count for 3 fifth...

 And it's not like your country has a precedent for counting the voting populous as negative 6 million.


Let me guess: you're one of those banal American sh*t-heels who meets Europeans and says "Do you speak German? No? You're welcome." as if you personally stormed the beach at Normandy.

Stop trying to distract from America's enormous current shame by reflexively babbling half-remembered history from 75 years ago. In your own way, you people are every bit as embarrassing as Trump.
 
2017-07-17 09:47:05 AM  
So this cop who shot the pretty blonde Australian woman...how many years is he getting? Can we get an odds estimate going? I want to try and make some money off of this.
 
2017-07-17 09:49:34 AM  

susler: LowbrowDeluxe: That...seems like a disproportionate response regardless of the parents suggestion.

They've got all this high end military gear that they never get to use.   When the opportunity to suit up comes, they go full hog.


More importantly, an opportunity that is very low risk for them.  When the risk is high, they actually take a more cautious approach.
 
2017-07-17 09:51:02 AM  

tukatz: ...the police have a more violent and rebellious society to deal with.


Got a citation for this, beyond "pulled it out of my pants in a Fark thread"?
 
2017-07-17 09:52:53 AM  

alitaki: So this cop who shot the pretty blonde Australian woman...how many years is he getting? Can we get an odds estimate going? I want to try and make some money off of this.


I don't want to be overly optimistic, but when I read the story my first thought was, "This guy might actually serve time."

Instead he'll probably just get fired and have to do 50hours community service.
 
2017-07-17 09:54:43 AM  

his name is my name too: lucksi: cman: lucksi: i always enjoy reading how such things are handled in second/third world countries. Makes me appreciate our police force more

Deutschland uber alles

Are you an expat living there, or are you native?

it's funny how you people know such things, yet elect a leader running on that platform

uh no... we people didn't, we people elected Hillary by 3 million more votes than the derp brigade.  The EC abdicated their duty and elected the demagogue which is outside of the people's control.


What duty did they abdicate?
 
2017-07-17 09:55:53 AM  

Ker_Thwap: bisi: FTFA: "... carpe diem, seize the day - was tattooed in artful letters on his chest. His dog, Faith..." - Yeah, there definitely was some build up to this.
But a police seige ist not the best course of action for a person threatening suicide.

I've already granted that calling in a tank and multiple SWAT teams was an over-reaction.  We, of course have no idea what the guy said to the first responders.

I agree that a police siege is not the best course for a "reasonable" person threatening suicide.  Wait, what?

We weren't there.  There was an unstable person threatening suicide with a loaded gun.  What is the proper response in that situation?  Would you walk into that room, unarmed and unarmored, and try to talk him down?   Just walk away and let him sleep it off, allowing him to keep his gun, and potentially murder his ex girlfriend the next day?  Maybe they keep a bunch of disposable cops on store in your hometown?  Yeah, send in Officer Fred, he's old and has damned little to live for these days.

It then just become a matter of scale.  Two armored officers would have been fine, but three would have been bad?  How about an even dozen, if by chance the guy talked about taking others with him?  So, yes, at some point it's a bad look for the local PD when they call in a friggin tank.  But let's not pretend that the over cautious response is what killed the guy.


There is containing the person while trying  to strategically de-escalate the situation and disarm him.
And then there is going full SWAT, putting them in a corner until the pressure leads to a quick and permanent solution.
 
2017-07-17 09:57:14 AM  

TOSViolation: cpubus: "Don't back me into a corner," his father remembers Austin saying. "Because I'll make it go away in four seconds."
To Russell Reeves, the meaning was clear - Austin would hurt himself if he wasn't left in peace. Stunned and afraid, Reeves dialed the Hingham police just after 10 p.m. to ask for help.

So the meaning was clear... yet he calls the police.

In the hall upstairs, Austin's mother spoke to him through his locked bedroom door. "Whatever's happening," Kate Harrison says she called to her son, "I love you, and we can work it out."

Then immediately start pestering him.
I get the feeling they never actually leave him the fark alone

The parents basically murdered him.  He told them to just leave him the fark alone, so the farkwads call the police.  His parents DESERVE to live the rest of their lives with guilt and pain over his death that they caused.


Favorited as "tard".
Learn to read. The parents didn't call the cops.
 
2017-07-17 10:03:32 AM  

ToastmasterGeneral: Shadow Blasko: Nevercall the cops if worried about someone's mental health.

Just don't.

So who do you call?  Social services?  Guess what, potentially suicidal person with a firearm?  Social services is going to call the police.  As they should.  What if this guy had decided to kill his parents before killing himself?  Or his ex-girlfriend?

Now, none of this is to say that the police response in this case was proper.  It was horribly handled.

But at the same time, assuming that people with mental challenges and firearms will always be safe on their own is horribly misguided, too.


My, god, what if he developed psychic powers and went all Carrie and killed everyone in the neighborhood?!?
 
2017-07-17 10:06:43 AM  

Barricaded Gunman: orangehat: lucksi: his name is my name too: lucksi: cman: lucksi: i always enjoy reading how such things are handled in second/third world countries. Makes me appreciate our police force more

Deutschland uber alles

Are you an expat living there, or are you native?

it's funny how you people know such things, yet elect a leader running on that platform

uh no... we people didn't, we people elected Hillary by 3 million more votes than the derp brigade.  The EC abdicated their duty and elected the demagogue which is outside of the people's control.

yeah, it's not like you have historical precedent that some peoples vote only count for 3 fifth...

 And it's not like your country has a precedent for counting the voting populous as negative 6 million.

Let me guess: you're one of those banal American sh*t-heels who meets Europeans and says "Do you speak German? No? You're welcome." as if you personally stormed the beach at Normandy.

Stop trying to distract from America's enormous current shame by reflexively babbling half-remembered history from 75 years ago. In your own way, you people are every bit as embarrassing as Trump.


So reflexively babbling history from 75 years ago isn't a proper response to reflexively babbling history from 150 years ago?
 
2017-07-17 10:07:22 AM  
ONLY call the cops if required to do so for an insurance claim. They are not there to help.
 
2017-07-17 10:09:01 AM  

Jimmy's getting angry: TOSViolation: cpubus: "Don't back me into a corner," his father remembers Austin saying. "Because I'll make it go away in four seconds."
To Russell Reeves, the meaning was clear - Austin would hurt himself if he wasn't left in peace. Stunned and afraid, Reeves dialed the Hingham police just after 10 p.m. to ask for help.

So the meaning was clear... yet he calls the police.

In the hall upstairs, Austin's mother spoke to him through his locked bedroom door. "Whatever's happening," Kate Harrison says she called to her son, "I love you, and we can work it out."

Then immediately start pestering him.
I get the feeling they never actually leave him the fark alone

The parents basically murdered him.  He told them to just leave him the fark alone, so the farkwads call the police.  His parents DESERVE to live the rest of their lives with guilt and pain over his death that they caused.

Favorited as "tard".
Learn to read. The parents didn't call the cops.


Wrong.

FTFA: "Concerned about his state of mind, the woman called police at 9:19 p.m., asking them to check on his welfare.
Minutes later, a Hingham police officer called Russell Reeves at home to ask if Austin had a gun with him. [...]
To Russell Reeves [the father], the meaning was clear - Austin would hurt himself if he wasn't left in peace. Stunned and afraid, Reeves dialed the Hingham police just after 10 p.m. to ask for help."
 
2017-07-17 10:10:13 AM  
When you're a hammer, everyone else is a nail.
 
2017-07-17 10:12:32 AM  

alitaki: So this cop who shot the pretty blonde Australian woman...how many years is he getting? Can we get an odds estimate going? I want to try and make some money off of this.


I'd say none except the Australian government is already piling on. No way that incident gets swept under the rug like normal.
 
2017-07-17 10:13:56 AM  

VerifiedPoster: http://www.deathandtaxesmag.com/305368/police-trainer-tells-students-​t​heyll-have-great-sex-after-they-kill-someone/


Damn.  That's just being Evil for the lulz and self-satisfaction.
 
2017-07-17 10:14:31 AM  
img.fark.net
 
2017-07-17 10:15:16 AM  

TOSViolation: cpubus: "Don't back me into a corner," his father remembers Austin saying. "Because I'll make it go away in four seconds."
To Russell Reeves, the meaning was clear - Austin would hurt himself if he wasn't left in peace. Stunned and afraid, Reeves dialed the Hingham police just after 10 p.m. to ask for help.

So the meaning was clear... yet he calls the police.

In the hall upstairs, Austin's mother spoke to him through his locked bedroom door. "Whatever's happening," Kate Harrison says she called to her son, "I love you, and we can work it out."

Then immediately start pestering him.
I get the feeling they never actually leave him the fark alone

The parents basically murdered him.  He told them to just leave him the fark alone, so the farkwads call the police.  His parents DESERVE to live the rest of their lives with guilt and pain over his death that they caused.


This.

If you don't know by now that calling the cops on someone you care about has a good chance of resulting in that person's death, you're an idiot who hasn't been paying attention.

DO NOT CALL THE COPS.
 
2017-07-17 10:16:54 AM  
Hello, 911? My son has locked himself in his room, and I just want to make sure he's alright. ...Yes, very depressed. Girl troubles, you know.... Yes, he did make some vague threats...  Well, he has his 9mm pistol... No, just a pit bull... Sounds to me like he just needs to sleep it off, I just wanted to let you all know!
 
2017-07-17 10:17:47 AM  

bisi: Ker_Thwap: bisi: FTFA: "... carpe diem, seize the day - was tattooed in artful letters on his chest. His dog, Faith..." - Yeah, there definitely was some build up to this.
But a police seige ist not the best course of action for a person threatening suicide.

I've already granted that calling in a tank and multiple SWAT teams was an over-reaction.  We, of course have no idea what the guy said to the first responders.

I agree that a police siege is not the best course for a "reasonable" person threatening suicide.  Wait, what?

We weren't there.  There was an unstable person threatening suicide with a loaded gun.  What is the proper response in that situation?  Would you walk into that room, unarmed and unarmored, and try to talk him down?   Just walk away and let him sleep it off, allowing him to keep his gun, and potentially murder his ex girlfriend the next day?  Maybe they keep a bunch of disposable cops on store in your hometown?  Yeah, send in Officer Fred, he's old and has damned little to live for these days.

It then just become a matter of scale.  Two armored officers would have been fine, but three would have been bad?  How about an even dozen, if by chance the guy talked about taking others with him?  So, yes, at some point it's a bad look for the local PD when they call in a friggin tank.  But let's not pretend that the over cautious response is what killed the guy.

There is containing the person while trying  to strategically de-escalate the situation and disarm him.
And then there is going full SWAT, putting them in a corner until the pressure leads to a quick and permanent solution.


... and you pretend to know exactly how it played out?  We don't even know if the guy was aware of the full SWAT.  It might have been a kindly officer (in armor), at a safe distance, trying to strategically de-escalate the situation.  While outside the multitude of pretty lights flashed.  You make it sound like the police lined him up against a wall with a firing squad and a tank and did nothing but taunt him.

Explain exactly how you would have handled an armed unstable person with 100% certainty that everyone went home alive?  What statements would have made you relax?  What statements would have made you call for backup?  We don't know what was said, we don't know the response.  We don't know if the escalation was warranted.  If I learn more detailed information, I might just join you the outrage.  It seems counterproductive to squish the events in the article into some sort of anti cop tirade however.

As a parent of daughters, frankly, I'm just fine with the resolution.  The last thing I want is some unstable hormonal suicidal fool of an ex boyfriend with a gun wandering free.  I don't wish suicide upon anyone, and anyone even remotely considering it should please seek help.  There are far too many murder suicides, given the choice I'd greatly prefer to see a straight suicide.
 
2017-07-17 10:19:31 AM  
Yeah, sometimes it's the family that do really stupid things that leave you wondering just WTF they were thinking.  I'm torn on whether or not the family in TFA played a role in what I see as a completely avoidable and pointless tragedy.

Last year, my Rescue Unit was dispatched on a teenager who, the parents reported, was alone in the house and having a severe anxiety attack*.No need for PD backup.  My partner and  I responded to find a distraught 16-year old sitting on the couch with a blanket on his lap. Absolutely we were in the mindset that this was a medical call, and nothing more. We see it all the time.

Did the parents mention that he had a history of suicide attempts?  That he wasn't actually having an anxiety attack, but had called them to say he wanted to kill himself?  THAT THERE WAS A LOADED, UNSECURED FIREARM IN THE HOUSE?  Which he told his parents he was in possession of?  No, they did not**.  And considering Utah has a reputation for NOT shooting first and asking questions later, I don't think their omission of these very important facts had anything to do with fear for their child's safety from over-enthusiastic cops.  Might just have had something to do with the fact that there was a meth lab in their shed.

What the parents DID do was that they reported it was an anxiety attack, stated it was an ongoing problem with him, and which (at least here) is treated as a medical problem, not a police one.  So off we went expecting to administer the appropriate medication and transport him for observation in the ER.  No need for PD backup.

Within five minutes of our arrival, where we found an obviously distraught teenaged male sitting on the couch with a blanket in his lap, he pulled out a loaded 9mm, put it to his head, and pulled the trigger.  My partner, who is damned lucky to be alive, was less than five feet away from him at the time, although he later needed medical care to remove a chunk of the kid's skull from his face.  When I heard that gunshot and saw him bleeding, my first impression was that he had been shot.

I suppose my point is that when you DO call 911, please be honest about the situation. If there really is an armed, suicidal person on scene, for the love of god, tell the dispatcher.  I'm not being an insensitive dick when I say that I'd rather see the cops go overboard and take down an armed person than risk one of my medics' lives.

*Yes, an actual anxiety attack is a medical emergency; the phsyiological response to severe anxiety can be very dangerous, with symptoms that include highly elevated heart rate and blood pressure, severe emotional and psychological stress (many patients describe the feeling as a combination of being scared out of their minds and experiencing a "sense of impending doom", both of which they have no control over) and, of course, suicidal ideation if it's a chronic, untreated issue.

**Oh, and for added assholishiness, the parents successfully sued the city, the county, the Fire Department, the dispatcher and me and my partner for negligence in not somehow preventing the death of their kid.  Americans are notoriously litigious, and seemingly incapable of taking personal responsibility for the self-inflicted stupidity in their lives.

[end slightly tangential not-so-CSB]
 
2017-07-17 10:21:30 AM  

Fark Against the Machine: Hello, 911? My son has locked himself in his room, and I just want to make sure he's alright. ...Yes, very depressed. Girl troubles, you know.... Yes, he did make some vague threats...  Well, he has his 9mm pistol... No, just a pit bull... Sounds to me like he just needs to sleep it off, I just wanted to let you all know!


"Ckshhhhhck. Constable Smith, Mortar Platoon - 2 rounds, high explosive to coordinates N22.0023  W17.02765 - Try to hit the bedroom. FIRE. Ckshhhhhhck."
 
2017-07-17 10:23:03 AM  

cman: Keyser_Soze_Death: cman: Lesson learned: Don't call the cops for a suicidal person

Fixed.

If someone was trying to break into my place, I'm gonna call the cops. They do have their uses even tho many of them can be assholes.


Unless you're not home, that's a really bad idea.  They've been known to kill the person who called in a burglary.
 
2017-07-17 10:23:45 AM  

Hanky Panky Spanky: Is this the thread where we hate cops, or the thread where only cops should have guns?

We need a bit of column A bad column B me thinks.

Prayers to the family.


When white people are the victims involved it's the thread where you hate cops.
When black people are the victims involved it's the thread where all white people should have guns, especially cops.

Hope that clears things up for you. You may have been confused by the lack of racial stereotyping or reflexive hatred of black people.
 
2017-07-17 10:23:47 AM  

DarkVader: TOSViolation: cpubus: "Don't back me into a corner," his father remembers Austin saying. "Because I'll make it go away in four seconds."
To Russell Reeves, the meaning was clear - Austin would hurt himself if he wasn't left in peace. Stunned and afraid, Reeves dialed the Hingham police just after 10 p.m. to ask for help.

So the meaning was clear... yet he calls the police.

In the hall upstairs, Austin's mother spoke to him through his locked bedroom door. "Whatever's happening," Kate Harrison says she called to her son, "I love you, and we can work it out."

Then immediately start pestering him.
I get the feeling they never actually leave him the fark alone

The parents basically murdered him.  He told them to just leave him the fark alone, so the farkwads call the police.  His parents DESERVE to live the rest of their lives with guilt and pain over his death that they caused.

This.

If you don't know by now that calling the cops on someone you care about has a good chance of resulting in that person's death, you're an idiot who hasn't been paying attention.

DO NOT CALL THE COPS.


You should not put that on the parents, though.
Is it the parents' fault for forgetting in this stressful situation where they really needed help, that... oh yeah, the police are murdering innocent people now and probably won't deal with any of that "negotiation" or "talking down" bullshiat.
 
2017-07-17 10:24:15 AM  
If you have a problem and call police, you now have two problems.
 
2017-07-17 10:25:04 AM  

cman: lucksi: cman: lucksi: i always enjoy reading how such things are handled in second/third world countries. Makes me appreciate our police force more

Deutschland uber alles

Are you an expat living there, or are you native?

it's funny how you people know such things, yet elect a leader running on that platform

Thats like the only line of the song I know. Anyone who watches the Olympics probably is the same.

And I didnt vote for the asshole. 46% of American voters did.

/I spent some time in Wiesbaden (for some reason, spellcheck wants to correct that to "disbandment"). I Loved it there.


46% of American voters who showed up, voted for Trump. When under half of eligible voters turn up, it's not really an election.
 
2017-07-17 10:25:29 AM  

Notorious C.A.W.: tukatz: You're right.  It IS all about perception.  Like yours is apparently warped by your personal hatred of law enforcement.   Not everyone feels that way.  In fact, many people see the ever growing violence and crime and are afraid.  They also know that the police have a more violent and rebellious society to deal with.  And that they aren't paid to die over someone's inability to follow commands or lack of control.

Yet, statistically, we're in one of the safest, lowest-crime periods in American history. But do go on about the Boogeyman they keep harping on about on Fox News.


There has been a recent spike in violent crime in some urban areas over the past year or so. That being said, crime is still at much lower levels than in the 80s.
 
2017-07-17 10:26:01 AM  
Has anyone mentioned they shot a white woman yet?
 
2017-07-17 10:26:15 AM  
WTF are cops protecting us from and how can they do it when cowardice, self-protection and elitism are their modus operandi?  After-the-fact clean up is so much safer than calling them to try to prevent a tragedy.  They don't know how to prevent tragedy.
 
2017-07-17 10:28:14 AM  

docpeteyJ: although he later needed medical care to remove a chunk of the kid's skull from his face.


img.fark.net

I have to go be horrified over....there...now.  Bye.
 
2017-07-17 10:28:42 AM  

docpeteyJ: I suppose my point is that when you DO call 911, please be honest about the situation. If there really is an armed, suicidal person on scene, for the love of god, tell the dispatcher.


DO NOT DO THAT.  You WILL get someone killed if you do that.

I'm not being an insensitive dick when I say that I'd rather see the cops go overboard and take down an armed person than risk one of my medics' lives.

Yes, you are being an insensitive dick.  Look, that's a sucky situation.  But the cops are NOT going to handle it any better than you are, they're going to be MUCH worse at it in virtually all of the US.  Maybe where you are, they aren't that bad.  But until this gets fixed, if you are calling for help for a suicidal person:

DO NOT TELL 911 THAT THERE IS A GUN INVOLVED.

IF THEY ASK, TELL THEM NO IF YOU WANT SOMEONE YOU CARE ABOUT TO LIVE.
 
2017-07-17 10:29:19 AM  

LowbrowDeluxe: ToastmasterGeneral: Shadow Blasko: Nevercall the cops if worried about someone's mental health.

Just don't.

So who do you call?  Social services?  Guess what, potentially suicidal person with a firearm?  Social services is going to call the police.  As they should.  What if this guy had decided to kill his parents before killing himself?  Or his ex-girlfriend?

Now, none of this is to say that the police response in this case was proper.  It was horribly handled.

But at the same time, assuming that people with mental challenges and firearms will always be safe on their own is horribly misguided, too.

My, god, what if he developed psychic powers and went all Carrie and killed everyone in the neighborhood?!?


If you're going for the ludicrousness award, then congrats.

Otherwise, do you have a thought as to what should happen when a person with mental challenges and a firearm indicates that they're having problems?
 
2017-07-17 10:29:31 AM  

TOSViolation: cpubus: "Don't back me into a corner," his father remembers Austin saying. "Because I'll make it go away in four seconds."
To Russell Reeves, the meaning was clear - Austin would hurt himself if he wasn't left in peace. Stunned and afraid, Reeves dialed the Hingham police just after 10 p.m. to ask for help.

So the meaning was clear... yet he calls the police.

In the hall upstairs, Austin's mother spoke to him through his locked bedroom door. "Whatever's happening," Kate Harrison says she called to her son, "I love you, and we can work it out."

Then immediately start pestering him.
I get the feeling they never actually leave him the fark alone

The parents basically murdered him.  He told them to just leave him the fark alone, so the farkwads call the police.  His parents DESERVE to live the rest of their lives with guilt and pain over his death that they caused.


This is such a massively f*cked up thing to say.
 
2017-07-17 10:34:51 AM  

Ker_Thwap: bisi: Ker_Thwap: bisi: FTFA: "... carpe diem, seize the day - was tattooed in artful letters on his chest. His dog, Faith..." - Yeah, there definitely was some build up to this.
But a police seige ist not the best course of action for a person threatening suicide.

I've already granted that calling in a tank and multiple SWAT teams was an over-reaction.  We, of course have no idea what the guy said to the first responders.

I agree that a police siege is not the best course for a "reasonable" person threatening suicide.  Wait, what?

We weren't there.  There was an unstable person threatening suicide with a loaded gun.  What is the proper response in that situation?  Would you walk into that room, unarmed and unarmored, and try to talk him down?   Just walk away and let him sleep it off, allowing him to keep his gun, and potentially murder his ex girlfriend the next day?  Maybe they keep a bunch of disposable cops on store in your hometown?  Yeah, send in Officer Fred, he's old and has damned little to live for these days.

It then just become a matter of scale.  Two armored officers would have been fine, but three would have been bad?  How about an even dozen, if by chance the guy talked about taking others with him?  So, yes, at some point it's a bad look for the local PD when they call in a friggin tank.  But let's not pretend that the over cautious response is what killed the guy.

There is containing the person while trying  to strategically de-escalate the situation and disarm him.
And then there is going full SWAT, putting them in a corner until the pressure leads to a quick and permanent solution.

... and you pretend to know exactly how it played out?  We don't even know if the guy was aware of the full SWAT.  It might have been a kindly officer (in armor), at a safe distance, trying to strategically de-escalate the situation.  While outside the multitude of pretty lights flashed.  You make it sound like the police lined him up against a wall with a firing ...


I don't pretend to know that, get off my case.
I do find it curious how you can identify with the girl's parents but not with the young man's. And then there's the whole "the important thing is that he is neutralized and not a threat anymore"-derp.
 
2017-07-17 10:35:46 AM  

pedrop357: his name is my name too: lucksi: cman: lucksi: i always enjoy reading how such things are handled in second/third world countries. Makes me appreciate our police force more

Deutschland uber alles

Are you an expat living there, or are you native?

it's funny how you people know such things, yet elect a leader running on that platform

uh no... we people didn't, we people elected Hillary by 3 million more votes than the derp brigade.  The EC abdicated their duty and elected the demagogue which is outside of the people's control.

What duty did they abdicate?


Preventing an unqualified person from assuming the office? That's pretty big on their To-Do list.
 
2017-07-17 10:38:09 AM  
FYI, the police are not your grief/crisis councilors. They are armed men who make sure order is maintained.
 
2017-07-17 10:39:18 AM  
Guns are a simple tool, no different than a hammer or a sander. You don't see SWAT swarm a house when someone with a hammer says they need to be alone. Why such a paranoid overreaction??!?
 
2017-07-17 10:40:11 AM  

DarkVader: docpeteyJ: I suppose my point is that when you DO call 911, please be honest about the situation. If there really is an armed, suicidal person on scene, for the love of god, tell the dispatcher.

DO NOT DO THAT.  You WILL get someone killed if you do that.

I'm not being an insensitive dick when I say that I'd rather see the cops go overboard and take down an armed person than risk one of my medics' lives.

Yes, you are being an insensitive dick.  Look, that's a sucky situation.  But the cops are NOT going to handle it any better than you are, they're going to be MUCH worse at it in virtually all of the US.  Maybe where you are, they aren't that bad.  But until this gets fixed, if you are calling for help for a suicidal person:

DO NOT TELL 911 THAT THERE IS A GUN INVOLVED.

IF THEY ASK, TELL THEM NO IF YOU WANT SOMEONE YOU CARE ABOUT TO LIVE.


Umm...my job is not to negotiate with an armed person, regardless of their psychological state.  And YES, I need to know if there's a firearm involved.  It's important to the safety of my crew.

What should we have done differently?  The PARENTS in the situation I shared were the ones who called. We didn't just show up spontaneously, ya know.  And might I remind you, paramedics don't wear bullet-resistant vests, nor are we armed.  And our training in these types of calls is woefully inadequate (which I have long and unsuccessfully biatched about).

Would I have preferred that no one die?  Of course.  But if it comes down to choosing between the person with the gun, and one of my medics, I'm going to choose the latter.
 
2017-07-17 10:45:35 AM  

cpubus: "Don't back me into a corner," his father remembers Austin saying. "Because I'll make it go away in four seconds."
To Russell Reeves, the meaning was clear - Austin would hurt himself if he wasn't left in peace. Stunned and afraid, Reeves dialed the Hingham police just after 10 p.m. to ask for help.

So the meaning was clear... yet he calls the police.

In the hall upstairs, Austin's mother spoke to him through his locked bedroom door. "Whatever's happening," Kate Harrison says she called to her son, "I love you, and we can work it out."

Then immediately start pestering him.
I get the feeling they never actually leave him the fark alone


Suicidal Tendencies - "Institutionalized" Frontier Records
Youtube LoF_a0-7xVQ
 
2017-07-17 10:45:50 AM  

bisi: I don't pretend to know that, get off my case.
I do find it curious how you can identify with the girl's parents but not with the young man's. And then there's the whole "the important thing is that he is neutralized and not a threat anymore"-derp.


Then we agree.  Your earlier statements made it sound like their was only one possible way it could have played out.

I can empathize with both sets of parents.  I'm pragmatic, however.  I taught my kids how to bow out gracefully from failed relationships.  I'm aware that many people don't address this important part of life.  Do I identify more with the parents of the woman, who was fortunate to escape alive? ... or with the parents of the man with a gun, making vague threats of harm/self harm?

I see my adult children statistically more likely to be victims of violent crime than to be perpetrators of it.  It is any mystery why I identify more with the potential victim's family?
 
2017-07-17 10:46:27 AM  

ToastmasterGeneral: LowbrowDeluxe: ToastmasterGeneral: Shadow Blasko: Nevercall the cops if worried about someone's mental health.

Just don't.

So who do you call?  Social services?  Guess what, potentially suicidal person with a firearm?  Social services is going to call the police.  As they should.  What if this guy had decided to kill his parents before killing himself?  Or his ex-girlfriend?

Now, none of this is to say that the police response in this case was proper.  It was horribly handled.

But at the same time, assuming that people with mental challenges and firearms will always be safe on their own is horribly misguided, too.

My, god, what if he developed psychic powers and went all Carrie and killed everyone in the neighborhood?!?

If you're going for the ludicrousness award, then congrats.

Otherwise, do you have a thought as to what should happen when a person with mental challenges and a firearm indicates that they're having problems?


Well, just a thought, but maybe a few less of them would end up dead by their own hands or police if people's response wasn't "Nutso has a gun!  He's going to kill everyone!"  Like how is that even where your mind goes on "I'm going to kill myself"?
 
2017-07-17 10:46:35 AM  
This could have all been easily avoided if his parents had only taught him how to exercise his white and/or class privilege.
 
2017-07-17 10:47:06 AM  
"Please," the frightened father says he asked them, "why can't you just let him go to sleep?"

Because they are trained to escalate the situation until the person they are dealing with complies or dies.

There is no middle ground.

Also if you knew your son might kill themselves if backed into a corner, why did you engineer them being backed into a corner instead of just letting them sleep?

Why didn't you just let him go to sleep instead of calling the police?

Now you will have that guilt for the rest of your life.
 
2017-07-17 10:49:34 AM  

bisi: There is containing the person while trying  to strategically de-escalate the situation and disarm him.
And then there is going full SWAT, putting them in a corner until the pressure leads to a quick and permanent solution.


What's really sad is that people who are feeling a bit suicidal and see stories like this may choose not to talk to anyone about it so they won't get some help before they reach the point of no return.
 
2017-07-17 10:50:18 AM  

ToastmasterGeneral: LowbrowDeluxe: ToastmasterGeneral: Shadow Blasko: Nevercall the cops if worried about someone's mental health.

Just don't.

So who do you call?  Social services?  Guess what, potentially suicidal person with a firearm?  Social services is going to call the police.  As they should.  What if this guy had decided to kill his parents before killing himself?  Or his ex-girlfriend?

Now, none of this is to say that the police response in this case was proper.  It was horribly handled.

But at the same time, assuming that people with mental challenges and firearms will always be safe on their own is horribly misguided, too.

My, god, what if he developed psychic powers and went all Carrie and killed everyone in the neighborhood?!?

If you're going for the ludicrousness award, then congrats.

Otherwise, do you have a thought as to what should happen when a person with mental challenges and a firearm indicates that they're having problems?


At that point it is too late, the thing that could save them is more sensible restrictions on gun use, storage and licensing. One thing that sensible people would like is to not let people with mental challenges have access to firearms.
 
2017-07-17 10:51:26 AM  

docpeteyJ: Would I have preferred that no one die?  Of course.  But if it comes down to choosing between the person with the gun, and one of my medics, I'm going to choose the latter


Wow, you must really hate your medics.

(Phrasing)
 
2017-07-17 10:51:30 AM  

LowbrowDeluxe: ToastmasterGeneral: Shadow Blasko: Nevercall the cops if worried about someone's mental health.

Just don't.

So who do you call?  Social services?  Guess what, potentially suicidal person with a firearm?  Social services is going to call the police.  As they should.  What if this guy had decided to kill his parents before killing himself?  Or his ex-girlfriend?

Now, none of this is to say that the police response in this case was proper.  It was horribly handled.

But at the same time, assuming that people with mental challenges and firearms will always be safe on their own is horribly misguided, too.

My, god, what if he developed psychic powers and went all Carrie and killed everyone in the neighborhood?!?


img.fark.net
 
2017-07-17 10:54:49 AM  
Monty Python - Mosquito Hunting HQ
Youtube cZvT3MHpffk
 
2017-07-17 10:55:29 AM  

dready zim: "Please," the frightened father says he asked them, "why can't you just let him go to sleep?"

Because they are trained to escalate the situation until the person they are dealing with complies or dies.

There is no middle ground.

Also if you knew your son might kill themselves if backed into a corner, why did you engineer them being backed into a corner instead of just letting them sleep?

Why didn't you just let him go to sleep instead of calling the police?

Now you will have that guilt for the rest of your life.


A lot of people are out of touch about there not being a middle ground.

Besides in the movies, how often has SWAT backed down when asked to by a civilian familiar with the situation?
 
2017-07-17 10:56:55 AM  
Always remember kids, Police are not your friends. They are not there to help, if someone needs help, don't call the police. They are not mental health professionals, they are not a suicide hotline, and they are not there to help. If someone has a problem, the police are not going aid anything, especially if there is a weapon of any sort involved, they are only going to make things worse. The US Supreme Court has affirmed they are under no obligation or requirement to protect or serve, never forget that or believe otherwise. Countless tragedies have occurred because people forget that.

If someone is having a major mental health issue, the last thing anyone should do is involve the police. The role they have defined for themselves is inherently unable to do anything but make such a situation worse. If someone is threatening to harm themselves, the police response will be essentially to do it for them.

TL;DR if someone is having a crisis, the police aren't going to help, don't call them.
 
2017-07-17 10:57:21 AM  

AngryDragon: docpeteyJ: Would I have preferred that no one die?  Of course.  But if it comes down to choosing between the person with the gun, and one of my medics, I'm going to choose the latter

Wow, you must really hate your medics.

(Phrasing)


Doh!
 
2017-07-17 10:58:12 AM  
Jimmy's getting angry: Learn to read. The parents didn't call the cops

Well, if you had read the text you quoted me with, that I copied from the article, you would see that his did call the cops back, after they had called and did their welfare check.  They were not coming to the house up until that point.

Dont forget to add yourself to your tard list
 
2017-07-17 11:00:48 AM  

docpeteyJ: It's important to the safety of my crew.


I think you are nearing identifying the problem.

Nearly all of these recent senseless killings are at the center of 'officer safety'.  Think he is going for a gun may as well shoot him because god forbid he could be clint eastwood and quick draw you down (even though you are already senselessly brandishing and violating the law)
 
2017-07-17 11:00:56 AM  

Another Government Employee: Ketchuponsteak: cpubus: "Don't back me into a corner," his father remembers Austin saying. "Because I'll make it go away in four seconds."
To Russell Reeves, the meaning was clear - Austin would hurt himself if he wasn't left in peace. Stunned and afraid, Reeves dialed the Hingham police just after 10 p.m. to ask for help.

So the meaning was clear... yet he calls the police.

In the hall upstairs, Austin's mother spoke to him through his locked bedroom door. "Whatever's happening," Kate Harrison says she called to her son, "I love you, and we can work it out."

Then immediately start pestering him.
I get the feeling they never actually leave him the fark alone

"we love you son, so we called the cops on you."

I'm sure that brightened his mood.

Speaking as a parent of kids this age, I fully understand the father's actions. Frankly, he's in a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation. If he does NOT call and the situation escalates, there may be more than one body, since he knows the kid is armed. If he's the survivor, he still gets to play "what if?" for the rest of his life.

But the police's response was gasoline on a fire. The problem with how most SWAT situations are handle, is the super show of force. It's using a sledgehammer when you need a fly swatter.


From the article, I didn't get the impression that he was suicidal, but of course I weren't there.

The SWAT responses are insane in USA. Like how people call in hoax "situations" to live streamers on Twitch, and the SWAT teams shows up. I swear that wouldn't work in any European nation. The police would show up, knock on the door, and be non-hostile and polite. No situation, thus no SWAT'ïng happends to European streamers.
 
2017-07-17 11:08:26 AM  

IRQ12: docpeteyJ: It's important to the safety of my crew.

I think you are nearing identifying the problem.

Nearly all of these recent senseless killings are at the center of 'officer safety'.  Think he is going for a gun may as well shoot him because god forbid he could be clint eastwood and quick draw you down (even though you are already senselessly brandishing and violating the law)


You either have some really strange EMTs where you're from or have no clue who you're talking to despite having a detailed explanation and description in the post that started this digression.
 
2017-07-17 11:08:33 AM  

IRQ12: docpeteyJ: It's important to the safety of my crew.

I think you are nearing identifying the problem.

Nearly all of these recent senseless killings are at the center of 'officer safety'.  Think he is going for a gun may as well shoot him because god forbid he could be clint eastwood and quick draw you down (even though you are already senselessly brandishing and violating the law)


Well, my points were A) the parents LIED to us*.  B) EMS personnel are not psychic.  C) It's not our job to negotiate with an armed, suicidal person; we have professionals for that, and I don't mean the cops. And D) this was an issue of the safety of responding EMS, not what PD may or may not do.

But yeah, I see what you're getting at.

*Perhaps if they had been honest, and not more concerned about their illegal activities than the safety of their child, this wouldn't have happened.  Seriously, IMHO, the ability to take personal responsibility for one's actions is about as rare as common sense nowadays.
 
2017-07-17 11:10:18 AM  
It would be helpful to know exactly what the ex-girlfriend told police, because it sounds like the father had the right idea about not escalating the situation, maybe the ex got the police all riled up with talk about guns & suicide on purpose?
 
2017-07-17 11:16:35 AM  
I'm not crying... YOU'RE crying...
 
2017-07-17 11:16:36 AM  

LowbrowDeluxe: IRQ12: docpeteyJ: It's important to the safety of my crew.

I think you are nearing identifying the problem.

Nearly all of these recent senseless killings are at the center of 'officer safety'.  Think he is going for a gun may as well shoot him because god forbid he could be clint eastwood and quick draw you down (even though you are already senselessly brandishing and violating the law)

You either have some really strange EMTs where you're from or have no clue who you're talking to despite having a detailed explanation and description in the post that started this digression.


I wasn't speaking about them specifically, I was saying they have identified the problem with these calls wrt to police.
 
2017-07-17 11:17:11 AM  

tukatz: And why does someone diagnosed with mental illness own a gun? Dad didn't seem to have a problem with that.


He wasn't diagnosed. Not as far as his parents knew anyway.
FTA:
Austin had no history of mental illness.
...
When he'd moved out of her house and back home in June, after the breakup, he had wept inconsolably, his mother said. But he never seemed to sink into depression.
 
2017-07-17 11:19:41 AM  

Dadoody: FYI, the police are not your grief/crisis councilors. They are armed men who make sure order is maintained.


But there ought to be emergency grief/crisis councilors who are trained to handle this shiat.
 
2017-07-17 11:19:46 AM  

Nidiot: doglover: Nidiot: Skin tone is now irrelevant.

Well fark.

They can't even not shoot blonde chicks!?!?!

I take it back. ONLY CALL THE POLICE IN AMERICA IF YOU WANT TO DIE. THEY WILL F*CK AND OR KILL YOU.

911? More like 187.

Even if they have decided all citizens simply exist as target practice, they need to consider where they are when the go all shooty shooty bang bang. This cop probably made himself and his partner deaf, at least temporarily: "Damond, in her pajamas, went to the driver's side door and was talking to the driver. The officer in the passenger seat pulled his gun and shot Damond through the driver's side door, sources said."


Earballs, damnit!
 
2017-07-17 11:23:08 AM  

dready zim: "Please," the frightened father says he asked them, "why can't you just let him go to sleep?"

Because they are trained to escalate the situation until the person they are dealing with complies or dies.

There is no middle ground.

Also if you knew your son might kill themselves if backed into a corner, why did you engineer them being backed into a corner instead of just letting them sleep?

Why didn't you just let him go to sleep instead of calling the police?

Now you will have that guilt for the rest of your life.


Next thing you know the kid decides to shoot the parents and then himself. Honestly, I wouldn't have gone to sleep that night knowing the kid is that unstable.
 
2017-07-17 11:26:00 AM  
With him was his dog and his 9 mm handgun.

Wow, I'm SHOCKED a SWAT team showed up.
 
2017-07-17 11:26:24 AM  

Nidiot: doglover: cman: Lesson learned: Don't call the cops for a suicidal person

Or ever, really.

The only reason you should call the police is to kill negros. That's not what police are supposed to be, just what they've become. If you need negros murdered, call the police. If you need ANYTHING else, call someone else.

Also if you are black , or even have a heavy tan, and the police show up... GET THE HELL OUTTA THERE!

They just shot an unarmed blonde white Australian woman in Minneapolis, after she called them for help http://www.startribune.com/woman-killed-in-officer-involved-shoot​ing-in-south-minneapolis/434782213/#1 so you have to update that advice. Skin tone is now irrelevant.

Don't call the police unless you want someone shot.


Their body cams not turned on and they could have used a taser.

I'm glad I moved away from the big cities the way things are getting in the USA.  Here, where i'm at now, it's so very rare that an officer even makes a move for a gun (even resting a hand on it is rare and odd) that other cops will notice and take the rookie/cop-new-to-area to the side and have a chat.  I've personally seen it happen twice where a cop has had a hand hovering over their gun and been taken out of the situation by another officer.

Of course, we have our fair share of asshole police just like we have our fair share of asshole people overall, but at least we know we're not risking getting shot unless we're doing something that's an immediate serious danger to others.
 
2017-07-17 11:26:55 AM  

Ker_Thwap: Schmerd1948: Ker_Thwap: My first thought would be to call a suicide prevention hotline, unless of course I suspected that my child with the gun was likely to take out a few other people including myself, neighbors, ex girlfriends, etc.; at which point the responsible thing would be to call the police.

  So, the parents are fearful for their own lives, and the police aren't allowed to be fearful for their own lives and take precautions like wearing body armor?  The parents just expected a Hollywood ending where a kindly old police officer takes off the vest, risks his/her own life and smoothly says the perfect words, that perfectly penetrate the angst of the would be suicide.

The guy shot himself, there's very little the police could have done to prevent that.  No one else got shot, that's a positive outcome.

They armored vehicle was a nice touch. And the multiple town-forces.
You really don't think they over-reacted?

My then wife passed out and thumped to the floor one night.  I called 911.  Within 10 minutes there were 30 local volunteer firemen cluttering up my house, clogging the parking spaces, so that by the time the ambulance arrived, it had no where to park.  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯   Responders get bored.  At worst, it was a giant waste of funding.

So, yes.  You're right, it does seem to be an over-reaction.  Better than an under-reaction, where innocents got killed as well.  Did the over-reaction directly lead to the suicide? Dubious.  There was a massive life long chain of events that led to the suicide.  It's a complex issue, and it's a bit insensitive to pretend it's a single issue concern that can be solved with a snap of the fingers and a few magic words in every case.


Except that a shiat ton of relatively recent research has shown that youth/adolescent suicide is much different than adult suicide, in that it is often not part of a significantly larger chain of mental health issues, and is often spontaneous and unlikely to be trusted if prevented the first time. Teenager brains aren't wired right - they're incredibly short-sighted and unstable, and can tip over from "totally ok" to "about to kill myself" in seconds, often with no real build-up or history of mental illness.

If this kid was left alone, chances are he would have gotten over it, went to therapy, and been a perfectly functional and normal adult.
 
2017-07-17 11:27:00 AM  

Millennium: Arachnophobe: It wasn't the parents that called, it was the ex-girlfriend.

[img.fark.net image 150x150]

The parents did not make the call. No word on whether the boyfriend played the "I'll kill myself if you leave" card, but if he did then there's no cause to blame the ex either; calling the cops is what you do in that situation.


WTF

To Russell Reeves, the meaning was clear - Austin would hurt himself if he wasn't left in peace. Stunned and afraid, Reeves dialed the Hingham police just after 10 p.m. to ask for help.
 
2017-07-17 11:31:23 AM  

LowbrowDeluxe: ToastmasterGeneral: LowbrowDeluxe: ToastmasterGeneral: Shadow Blasko: Nevercall the cops if worried about someone's mental health.

Just don't.

So who do you call?  Social services?  Guess what, potentially suicidal person with a firearm?  Social services is going to call the police.  As they should.  What if this guy had decided to kill his parents before killing himself?  Or his ex-girlfriend?

Now, none of this is to say that the police response in this case was proper.  It was horribly handled.

But at the same time, assuming that people with mental challenges and firearms will always be safe on their own is horribly misguided, too.

My, god, what if he developed psychic powers and went all Carrie and killed everyone in the neighborhood?!?

If you're going for the ludicrousness award, then congrats.

Otherwise, do you have a thought as to what should happen when a person with mental challenges and a firearm indicates that they're having problems?

Well, just a thought, but maybe a few less of them would end up dead by their own hands or police if people's response wasn't "Nutso has a gun!  He's going to kill everyone!"  Like how is that even where your mind goes on "I'm going to kill myself"?


You didn't identify what you'd do, unless you were subtly saying that the solution in those instances is to send nobody and just hope for the best.

No, SWAT is not the answer.But more and more police departments are undertaking Crisis Interneuron Training, or something similar - as they should.

However, if you have a different suggestion for what to do when someone with mental issues and a firearm threatens harm - even to just themselves - then I'm all ears.
 
2017-07-17 11:32:30 AM  
Question for the EMS or other knowledgeable farkers: what is the best course of action when a person (family member, friend, whatever) is armed and threatening suicide or something similar, when you can't handle the situation by yourself but would still like them to remain un"helped" by police?

/It is still quite a leap from "person considering or talking about suicide" to "ex-person". Interesting article I read a while ago: https://mobile.nytimes.com/blogs/opinionator/2013/06/02/a-simple-way-​t​o-reduce-suicides/?referer=
 
2017-07-17 11:33:05 AM  
Remember the story about the black guy who got shot by the cop who was aiming at the mentally ill person the black guy was helping?

Police access to use of force seriously needs to be curtailed.
 
2017-07-17 11:35:38 AM  

Lusiphur: Except that a shiat ton of relatively recent research has shown that youth/adolescent suicide is much different than adult suicide, in that it is often not part of a significantly larger chain of mental health issues, and is often spontaneous and unlikely to be trusted if prevented the first time. Teenager brains aren't wired right - they're incredibly short-sighted and unstable, and can tip over from "totally ok" to "about to kill myself" in seconds, often with no real build-up or history of mental illness.

If this kid was left alone, chances are he would have gotten over it, went to therapy, and been a perfectly functional and normal adult.


Sure, sounds about right to me.  We're also dealing with age 26, with is just barely past the limit of when the male brain fully develops.  My point was more along the lines of we shouldn't treat suicide as a simple, easily solved matter.
 
2017-07-17 11:37:33 AM  
Nobody made him shoot himself. That was his free will. His choice. The parents were just trying to help. Don't you think they're going to blame themselves? They have to live with it for the rest of their lives when they shouldn't. They didn't make him shoot himself. They didn't see he was visibly in a bad mood, stop him, and say: "Don't forget the gun!" He shot himself. He did it. His free will. Was this all preventable? Of course it was in a myriad of ways, but no one is to blame for him shooting himself except for himself. Tragic all around, but don't go blaming the cops doing what they're trained to do. Don't go blaming the parents for doing what they thought was right. The cops just need different training. How were they to know this wouldn't go the way of murder-suicide? How did they know he wouldn't kill his parents and then himself? They aren't to blame. The parents aren't to blame. He shot himself. That's the cold hard matter-of-fact truth.
 
2017-07-17 11:38:58 AM  

Farce-Side: Barricaded Gunman: orangehat: lucksi: his name is my name too: lucksi: cman: lucksi: i always enjoy reading how such things are handled in second/third world countries. Makes me appreciate our police force more

Deutschland uber alles

Are you an expat living there, or are you native?

it's funny how you people know such things, yet elect a leader running on that platform

uh no... we people didn't, we people elected Hillary by 3 million more votes than the derp brigade.  The EC abdicated their duty and elected the demagogue which is outside of the people's control.

yeah, it's not like you have historical precedent that some peoples vote only count for 3 fifth...

 And it's not like your country has a precedent for counting the voting populous as negative 6 million.

Let me guess: you're one of those banal American sh*t-heels who meets Europeans and says "Do you speak German? No? You're welcome." as if you personally stormed the beach at Normandy.

Stop trying to distract from America's enormous current shame by reflexively babbling half-remembered history from 75 years ago. In your own way, you people are every bit as embarrassing as Trump.

So reflexively babbling history from 75 years ago isn't a proper response to reflexively babbling history from 150 years ago?


No.
 
2017-07-17 11:45:13 AM  

docpeteyJ: Yeah, sometimes it's the family that do really stupid things that leave you wondering just WTF they were thinking.  I'm torn on whether or not the family in TFA played a role in what I see as a completely avoidable and pointless tragedy.

Last year, my Rescue Unit was dispatched on a teenager who, the parents reported, was alone in the house and having a severe anxiety attack*.No need for PD backup.  My partner and  I responded to find a distraught 16-year old sitting on the couch with a blanket on his lap. Absolutely we were in the mindset that this was a medical call, and nothing more. We see it all the time.

Did the parents mention that he had a history of suicide attempts?  That he wasn't actually having an anxiety attack, but had called them to say he wanted to kill himself?  THAT THERE WAS A LOADED, UNSECURED FIREARM IN THE HOUSE?  Which he told his parents he was in possession of?  No, they did not**.  And considering Utah has a reputation for NOT shooting first and asking questions later, I don't think their omission of these very important facts had anything to do with fear for their child's safety from over-enthusiastic cops.  Might just have had something to do with the fact that there was a meth lab in their shed.

What the parents DID do was that they reported it was an anxiety attack, stated it was an ongoing problem with him, and which (at least here) is treated as a medical problem, not a police one.  So off we went expecting to administer the appropriate medication and transport him for observation in the ER.  No need for PD backup.

Within five minutes of our arrival, where we found an obviously distraught teenaged male sitting on the couch with a blanket in his lap, he pulled out a loaded 9mm, put it to his head, and pulled the trigger.  My partner, who is damned lucky to be alive, was less than five feet away from him at the time, although he later needed medical care to remove a chunk of the kid's skull from his face.  When I heard that gunshot and saw him bleeding, my first impression was that he had been shot.

I suppose my point is that when you DO call 911, please be honest about the situation. If there really is an armed, suicidal person on scene, for the love of god, tell the dispatcher.  I'm not being an insensitive dick when I say that I'd rather see the cops go overboard and take down an armed person than risk one of my medics' lives.

*Yes, an actual anxiety attack is a medical emergency; the phsyiological response to severe anxiety can be very dangerous, with symptoms that include highly elevated heart rate and blood pressure, severe emotional and psychological stress (many patients describe the feeling as a combination of being scared out of their minds and experiencing a "sense of impending doom", both of which they have no control over) and, of course, suicidal ideation if it's a chronic, untreated issue.

**Oh, and for added assholishiness, the parents successfully sued the city, the county, the Fire Department, the dispatcher and me and my partner for negligence in not somehow preventing the death of their kid.  Americans are notoriously litigious, and seemingly incapable of taking personal responsibility for the self-inflicted stupidity in their lives.

[end slightly tangential not-so-CSB]


No offense, and I'm sure you and your team are wonderful people, but I would rather see a hundred first responders shot than one innocent victim just having a tough time. First responders know their lives are in danger every time they come in to work. That's part of the job description. Three people who work as emergency EMTs, firefighters, and police officers should expect that every call they go on might be their last, and be ok with that. On the other hand, NO ONE should feel like they are putting their lives (or the lives of loved ones) at risk just by calling for help. The line at which any first responder should be allowed to prioritize their lives over the lives of any other person needs to be a bright line somewhere just on the other side of "this person has taken clear and unambiguous actions to actively try to kill myself or others." And even then, it should be a difficult choice
 
2017-07-17 11:50:05 AM  

TOSViolation: Schmerd1948: you, sir, are an idiot. A heartless idiot. It was the girlfriend who called the suicide hotline. They called the police. The mom went up to tell the boy she loved him. Does any of that sound like the parents MURDERED the son and DESERVE to blah blah blah.?
Idiot.

Read it again.  The FATHER called the police to come help.

"To Russell Reeves, the meaning was clear - Austin would hurt himself if he wasn't left in peace. Stunned and afraid, Reeves dialed the Hingham police just after 10 p.m. to ask for help."

The kid had asked multiple times for them to just leave him the fark alone, but the dumbasses couldn't get that through their thick skulls.



Ok, lets just all get this straight. The ex called first.
But sometime before he got there, Austin spoke by phone with his former girlfriend. He became alarmingly upset, according to his parents, and mentioned a gun. Concerned about his state of mind, the woman called police at 9:19 p.m., asking them to check on his welfare.

Then police called the house and spoke with the father.
Minutes later, a Hingham police officer called Russell Reeves at home to ask if Austin had a gun with him.

Later, the father called back.
To Russell Reeves, the meaning was clear - Austin would hurt himself if he wasn't left in peace. Stunned and afraid, Reeves dialed the Hingham police just after 10 p.m. to ask for help.

So, the ex called first, but ultimately it was the father's call that dispatched the police. Are we clear yet?
 
2017-07-17 11:52:08 AM  

Ker_Thwap: Lusiphur: Except that a shiat ton of relatively recent research has shown that youth/adolescent suicide is much different than adult suicide, in that it is often not part of a significantly larger chain of mental health issues, and is often spontaneous and unlikely to be trusted if prevented the first time. Teenager brains aren't wired right - they're incredibly short-sighted and unstable, and can tip over from "totally ok" to "about to kill myself" in seconds, often with no real build-up or history of mental illness.

If this kid was left alone, chances are he would have gotten over it, went to therapy, and been a perfectly functional and normal adult.

Sure, sounds about right to me.  We're also dealing with age 26, with is just barely past the limit of when the male brain fully develops.  My point was more along the lines of we shouldn't treat suicide as a simple, easily solved matter.


In adult suicide? Sure. Completely agreed. In adolescent suicide? It's complicated, but not nearly as much so. Especially in a situation where there hasn't been any real sign of mental illness.

Which is not to say it should be taken lightly, but it is definitely not a matter for the police.
 
2017-07-17 11:54:43 AM  

Lusiphur: docpeteyJ: Yeah, sometimes it's the family that do really stupid things that leave you wondering just WTF they were thinking.  I'm torn on whether or not the family in TFA played a role in what I see as a completely avoidable and pointless tragedy.

Last year, my Rescue Unit was dispatched on a teenager who, the parents reported, was alone in the house and having a severe anxiety attack*.No need for PD backup.  My partner and  I responded to find a distraught 16-year old sitting on the couch with a blanket on his lap. Absolutely we were in the mindset that this was a medical call, and nothing more. We see it all the time.

Did the parents mention that he had a history of suicide attempts?  That he wasn't actually having an anxiety attack, but had called them to say he wanted to kill himself?  THAT THERE WAS A LOADED, UNSECURED FIREARM IN THE HOUSE?  Which he told his parents he was in possession of?  No, they did not**.  And considering Utah has a reputation for NOT shooting first and asking questions later, I don't think their omission of these very important facts had anything to do with fear for their child's safety from over-enthusiastic cops.  Might just have had something to do with the fact that there was a meth lab in their shed.

What the parents DID do was that they reported it was an anxiety attack, stated it was an ongoing problem with him, and which (at least here) is treated as a medical problem, not a police one.  So off we went expecting to administer the appropriate medication and transport him for observation in the ER.  No need for PD backup.

Within five minutes of our arrival, where we found an obviously distraught teenaged male sitting on the couch with a blanket in his lap, he pulled out a loaded 9mm, put it to his head, and pulled the trigger.  My partner, who is damned lucky to be alive, was less than five feet away from him at the time, although he later needed medical care to remove a chunk of the kid's skull from his face.  When I heard t ...


You really just typed that out and put it on the internet for people to see.

Look there is a whole host of ways to say that you are unhappy with the way first responders like police deal with problems, but categorically the statement:

No offense, and I'm sure you and your team are wonderful people, but I would rather see a hundred first responders shot than one innocent victim just having a tough time.

Tumblr is leaking and that septic, naive, self-medicating/diagnosing bullshiat is societally toxic.  You are a callous bigot if you think its ok to treat first-responders like meat on a 100-1 harm scenario.
Police need to follow better force-escalation guidelines but there is no need to be so cavalier with other First Responders.

Your mentality is what reinforces the believe that civilians are the enemy, because your assertion is disgusting and turned my stomach.  Please take a moment and re-evaluate that line and realize how inhumane it is.
 
2017-07-17 11:55:41 AM  

ToastmasterGeneral: Shadow Blasko: Nevercall the cops if worried about someone's mental health.

Just don't.

So who do you call?  Social services?  Guess what, potentially suicidal person with a firearm?  Social services is going to call the police.  As they should.  What if this guy had decided to kill his parents before killing himself?  Or his ex-girlfriend?

Now, none of this is to say that the police response in this case was proper.  It was horribly handled.

But at the same time, assuming that people with mental challenges and firearms will always be safe on their own is horribly misguided, too.


The events that caused this to happen were set in motion long before that day.  The kid obviously had problems and neither the parents nor the system did anything to solve them.  By the time you get the police involved, you are obviously worried about the situation escalating to the point that third parties will be harmed (and in this case, the police presence ensured that wasn't going to happen).  But to pin the blame on the authorities is misguided.  They are always going to be acting on imperfect information and it's folly to expect them to just take your word for it that "he's normally a good boy and just needs a nap."
 
2017-07-17 11:59:51 AM  

Ker_Thwap: ... and you pretend to know exactly how it played out?  We don't even know if the guy was aware of the full SWAT. It might have been a kindly officer (in armor), at a safe distance, trying to strategically de-escalate the situation.  While outside the multitude of pretty lights flashed.  You make it sound like the police lined him up against a wall with a firing ...

"Some wore camouflage and carried rifles. They set up bright lights to shine onto the house and drove a military-style vehicle into the backyard. Eventually, they broke seven upstairs windows so a mounted camera could look inside for Austin. "


Guess who didn't read the article?
 
2017-07-17 11:59:57 AM  

his name is my name too: lucksi: cman: lucksi: i always enjoy reading how such things are handled in second/third world countries. Makes me appreciate our police force more

Deutschland uber alles

Are you an expat living there, or are you native?

it's funny how you people know such things, yet elect a leader running on that platform

uh no... we people didn't, we people elected Hillary by 3 million more votes than the derp brigade.  The EC abdicated their duty and elected the demagogue which is outside of the people's control.


I got it! We call the cops for a wellness check on 45!
 
2017-07-17 12:03:44 PM  
Everyone needs to shut up about this. You'd do the same exact thing in this situation. If your kid is in a bad place due to a conversation with an ex, has a gun and wants to be left alone, as parent there's no farking way you're going to walk away and pretend everything is alright or that he'll just sleep it off. Even without a history of mental illness, you don't know what this person is going to do. You're just not going to sit back and do nothing. What would all you arm-chair psychiatrists be saying if they did do that and the kid shot himself anyway? "Stupid parents. Should have called someone." Well they called someone. The mother tried to communicate with her son. The father tried to call for help. They were in a no win situation here. Stop blaming the parents. fark all of you who are blaming the parents on this.

If there's any blame to be placed, and I'm not saying there is or isn't, but if there is the best you can say is that the cops did not respond appropriately. Where was the counselor/specialist/whatever they're called? Why were all those cops needed for one person with a gun? At most a patrol car should have been there with a mental health professional or at the very least an officer trained in dealing with mental health issues. For farks sake. These poor people lost their son and they're being made to be the farking bad guys here. fark all of you.
 
2017-07-17 12:04:43 PM  

bisi: Question for the EMS or other knowledgeable farkers: what is the best course of action when a person (family member, friend, whatever) is armed and threatening suicide or something similar, when you can't handle the situation by yourself but would still like them to remain un"helped" by police?

/It is still quite a leap from "person considering or talking about suicide" to "ex-person". Interesting article I read a while ago: https://mobile.nytimes.com/blogs/opinionator/2013/06/02/a-simple-way-t​o-reduce-suicides/?referer=


I'm not EMS, but I date one.. :) I believe the EMS response is that they get the fark out of the way. EMS are (supposed to) protect themselves first and foremost. They are not supposed to risk their health no matter how catastrophic the situation. I'm not however sure of how many of them remember that...

I'm hoping actual EMS people have a better response, but I believe they're told (forcefully) that they must rely on the police to deal with armed patients.
 
2017-07-17 12:04:48 PM  

Lusiphur: No offense, and I'm sure you and your team are wonderful people, but I would rather see a hundred first responders shot than one innocent victim just having a tough time. First responders know their lives are in danger every time they come in to work. That's part of the job description.


No, it's not, at least where EMS personnel are involved.  While we do, indeed, risk our lives in order to save others, it's not a requirement that we sacrifice our safety in clearly dangerous situations.  A dead medic does no one any good. I consider sending in unarmed and unprotected medics into a house with an armed, suicidal person as stupid and irresponsible as asking them to run into a burning house with no protective gear.  I want them safe so they can continue to go about their jobs of saving people.

Three people who work as emergency EMTs, firefighters, and police officers should expect that every call they go on might be their last, and be ok with that. On the other hand, NO ONE should feel like they are putting their lives (or the lives of loved ones) at risk just by calling for help.

Very true.  Every time a call goes as stupidly bad as it did in TFA, it compromises the trust the public has in First Responders (be them cops or medics) to keep them safe.

The line at which any first responder should be allowed to prioritize their lives over the lives of any other person needs to be a bright line somewhere just on the other side of "this person has taken clear and unambiguous actions to actively try to kill myself or others." And even then, it should be a difficult choice

Did you miss the part where I explained that the parents of the victim LIED TO US about the circumstances? We went in having NO idea the patient was suicidal and armed.  If we had known, the protocol is to have PD stage nearby why a specially-trained hostage negotiator/psychologist attempts to "talk down" the patient.

Everyone wants a peaceful resolution.  But in the real world where I live, sometimes that doesn't happen, no matter how hard we try.  Damned if we do, damned if we don't.
 
2017-07-17 12:08:11 PM  

LordJiro: America's police system is broken. Many (if not most) cops have absolutely no idea how to deescalate a situation, and those that do often get reprimanded for talking people down instead of gunning down the "threat". And our legal system has repeatedly told police that if they even feel a twinge of 'fear', they're completely justified in killing someone, no matter how little of a threat was posed, or how cooperative the victim was.

The entire system needs to be rebuilt from the ground up.


Not calling you a liar, but I would like a citation for this one.

And it's not just the legal system training them to react lethally to threats, it's their training and their protocols.

But that's not really relevant here since it was the kid that shot himself, not the police.

I suppose if you want to argue the amount of force they brought was symptomatic of this, I won't argue that, but let's respect the fact that all signs at this point lead to a suicidal kid living up to the threat he gave his parents if they wouldn't leave him alone and backed him into a corner. They did exactly what he asked them not to when the mom showed up at his door and then by calling the police. This is a failure of parenting as well as police overreaction. SWAT and Armored vehicles all because you couldn't give your emotionally distraught kid a little breathing room. Totally worth it.
 
2017-07-17 12:10:54 PM  

alitaki: pedrop357: his name is my name too: lucksi: cman: lucksi: i always enjoy reading how such things are handled in second/third world countries. Makes me appreciate our police force more

Deutschland uber alles

Are you an expat living there, or are you native?

it's funny how you people know such things, yet elect a leader running on that platform

uh no... we people didn't, we people elected Hillary by 3 million more votes than the derp brigade.  The EC abdicated their duty and elected the demagogue which is outside of the people's control.

What duty did they abdicate?

Preventing an unqualified person from assuming the office? That's pretty big on their To-Do list.


It is?
 
2017-07-17 12:11:27 PM  

Cthulhu Theory: LordJiro: America's police system is broken. Many (if not most) cops have absolutely no idea how to deescalate a situation, and those that do often get reprimanded for talking people down instead of gunning down the "threat". And our legal system has repeatedly told police that if they even feel a twinge of 'fear', they're completely justified in killing someone, no matter how little of a threat was posed, or how cooperative the victim was.

The entire system needs to be rebuilt from the ground up.

Not calling you a liar, but I would like a citation for this one.

And it's not just the legal system training them to react lethally to threats, it's their training and their protocols.

But that's not really relevant here since it was the kid that shot himself, not the police.

I suppose if you want to argue the amount of force they brought was symptomatic of this, I won't argue that, but let's respect the fact that all signs at this point lead to a suicidal kid living up to the threat he gave his parents if they wouldn't leave him alone and backed him into a corner. They did exactly what he asked them not to when the mom showed up at his door and then by calling the police. This is a failure of parenting as well as police overreaction. SWAT and Armored vehicles all because you couldn't give your emotionally distraught kid a little breathing room. Totally worth it.


There was an article on here a couple months ago where a cop talked a guy down, and was reprimanded for not shooting the guy.
 
2017-07-17 12:11:28 PM  

Ker_Thwap: bisi: FTFA: "... carpe diem, seize the day - was tattooed in artful letters on his chest. His dog, Faith..." - Yeah, there definitely was some build up to this.
But a police seige ist not the best course of action for a person threatening suicide.

I've already granted that calling in a tank and multiple SWAT teams was an over-reaction.  We, of course have no idea what the guy said to the first responders.

I agree that a police siege is not the best course for a "reasonable" person threatening suicide.  Wait, what?

We weren't there.  There was an unstable person threatening suicide with a loaded gun.  What is the proper response in that situation?  Would you walk into that room, unarmed and unarmored, and try to talk him down?   Just walk away and let him sleep it off, allowing him to keep his gun, and potentially murder his ex girlfriend the next day?  Maybe they keep a bunch of disposable cops on store in your hometown?  Yeah, send in Officer Fred, he's old and has damned little to live for these days.

It then just become a matter of scale.  Two armored officers would have been fine, but three would have been bad?  How about an even dozen, if by chance the guy talked about taking others with him?  So, yes, at some point it's a bad look for the local PD when they call in a friggin tank.  But let's not pretend that the over cautious response is what killed the guy.


Fortunately, the only two options are either:

1) surround the house with literally hundreds of armed rifleman, or
2) walk in unarmed

There simply no other alternatives.
 
2017-07-17 12:17:41 PM  

casual disregard: What is the primary purpose of police? Beyond paperwork and investigations, it's not protecting the public. No, the primary purpose of the police is to neutralize threats. Insofar as the police are concerned, and the people who voted in a police force with that modus operandi, it can only be seen as mission accomplished.


Neutralizing a threat is a form of public protection. You seem to be under the illusion that protecting the public means they willingly sacrifice themselves for the public, where that's not the case. They're trained to protect themselves first, and by keeping themselves safe they can keep the public safe.

casual disregard: If you own guns the police will kill you if they perceive you as a threat. If you are having a mental breakdown the police will kill you if they perceive you as a threat. If you are nonwhite the police will kill you if they perceive you as a threat (if you won't listen to me, at least give Chris Rock a chance, might just save your life). Heck sometimes they even shoot white people, but they try to keep it out of the news (offer may not be valid in Zimbabwe).


The body count of whites is twice as high as blacks and as high as all non-whites combined.

casual disregard: How "duh" can we get on this? How many more times do we have to see a police killing before we simply accept it not only as reality but as the political will of the democratic republican populace? I'd bet a dollar at the casino that this victim's parents voted for the very politicians that enabled this sort of environment to emerge. But not more than a dollar. I dislike games of chance even when rigged in my favor.


This wasn't a police killing. I will agree that by now it should be common knowledge that police are literally trained to defend themselves against even perceived threats with up to lethal force. Also, at the risk of being labelled a bootlicker, cops are actually people too and people have a right to self-defense. Personally, I believe the police have way too much leeway and it needs to be reined in.
 
2017-07-17 12:20:01 PM  

mrinfoguy: lucksi: i always enjoy reading how such things are handled in second/third world countries. Makes me appreciate our police force more

Super smart guy! You should know how countries are designated as first,.second, and third world! Because your fathers thought it was a good idea to eradicate an entire race of people! Has enough time gone by that your collective guilt and bare sense of national pride allows you to sit on your shiatter, inspect your feces ad nauseum, and thumb your nose at the prospect that the United States is better at being jack booted thugs than the brownshirts ever were?


They really do have weird toilets in Germany. It's like a little shelf for your poop to sit on.
 
2017-07-17 12:20:26 PM  

Cthulhu Theory: LordJiro: America's police system is broken. Many (if not most) cops have absolutely no idea how to deescalate a situation, and those that do often get reprimanded for talking people down instead of gunning down the "threat". And our legal system has repeatedly told police that if they even feel a twinge of 'fear', they're completely justified in killing someone, no matter how little of a threat was posed, or how cooperative the victim was.

The entire system needs to be rebuilt from the ground up.

Not calling you a liar, but I would like a citation for this one.

And it's not just the legal system training them to react lethally to threats, it's their training and their protocols.

But that's not really relevant here since it was the kid that shot himself, not the police.

I suppose if you want to argue the amount of force they brought was symptomatic of this, I won't argue that, but let's respect the fact that all signs at this point lead to a suicidal kid living up to the threat he gave his parents if they wouldn't leave him alone and backed him into a corner. They did exactly what he asked them not to when the mom showed up at his door and then by calling the police. This is a failure of parenting as well as police overreaction. SWAT and Armored vehicles all because you couldn't give your emotionally distraught kid a little breathing room. Totally worth it.


Hhttps://www.google.com/amp/www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/amp/west-vir​gi​nia-cop-fired-after-not-shooting-suicidal-man-sues-n756976
 
2017-07-17 12:20:44 PM  

Nidiot: doglover: cman: Lesson learned: Don't call the cops for a suicidal person

They just shot an unarmed blonde white Australian woman in Minneapolis, after she called them for help http://www.startribune.com/woman-killed-in-officer-involved-shoot​ing-in-south-minneapolis/434782213/#1 so you have to update that advice. Skin tone is now irrelevant.

Don't call the police unless you want someone shot.


What the ever loving hell is wrong with cops in this country?!?  If you are a cop and these stories don't make you seriously sick, angry or worse... and if you don't say or do anything about it... then you are just as big of a piece of shiat that these guys are.  Period.

And if you have a body cam on your person and it's not ON and RECORDING for any reason when incidents like this go down, then you are essentially admitting guilt and should be locked up until proven otherwise.

Oh, I know this will bring the 'innocent until proven guilty' wonks out of the woodwork...  But cops are basically put in charge of upholding the law.  By doing so you are NOT above that law and you ARE held to a higher standard than those who the law is designed to protect.  There needs to be some form of consequence for those that don't and we're long overdue for this type of justice reform.
 
2017-07-17 12:22:21 PM  

Lusiphur: No offense, and I'm sure you and your team are wonderful people, but I would rather see a hundred first responders shot than one innocent victim just having a tough time. First responders know their lives are in danger every time they come in to work. That's part of the job description. Three people who work as emergency EMTs, firefighters, and police officers should expect that every call they go on might be their last, and be ok with that. On the other hand, NO ONE should feel like they are putting their lives (or the lives of loved ones) at risk just by calling for help. The line at which any first responder should be allowed to prioritize their lives over the lives of any other person needs to be a bright line somewhere just on the other side of "this person has taken clear and unambiguous actions to actively try to kill myself or others." And even then, it should be a difficult choice


I can see your point and other sides as well.  I work with people who are suicidal or have other major issues with rape and so and I know that my choice leads to many sorts of dangers.  I train first responders and let them know that they need to be aware when they approach any sort of situation they need to ensure that there aren't weapons handy.  Even in a situation where it's a spousal abuse situation, the victim may easily go on the attack to defend the person who attacked them.  "Don't turn your back on the victim" in a spousal situation is important.  When anger switches to anxiety the situation gets more dangerous.

In the situation docpeteyj talked about with an anxiety attack situation there is failure on the part of everyone overall especially the people who trained them.  People who are having anxiety attacks are far more dangerous overall than people who are angry.  The first thing that should have been done is to deal with the blanket on the person's lap.  I teach responders to first evaluate everything that's in close proximity to the person like heavy objects or coverings.  This is something so very incredibly basic I'm appalled that few are trained to be that situationally aware.
 
2017-07-17 12:23:50 PM  

Lusiphur: No offense, and I'm sure you and your team are wonderful people, but I would rather see a hundred first responders shot than one innocent victim just having a tough time. First responders know their lives are in danger every time they come in to work. That's part of the job description. Three people who work as emergency EMTs, firefighters, and police officers should expect that every call they go on might be their last, and be ok with that. On the other hand, NO ONE should feel like they are putting their lives (or the lives of loved ones) at risk just by calling for help. The line at which any first responder should be allowed to prioritize their lives over the lives of any other person needs to be a bright line somewhere just on the other side of "this person has taken clear and unambiguous actions to actively try to kill myself or others." And even then, it should be a difficult choice


The moment they shoot that first person, they've overstepped the bounds of innocence into guilt and a lethal threat. You cannot blame police for responding in kind at this point. However, I do agree, it shouldn't be a police shooting first kind of situation 95% of the time, and it shouldn't be an easy decision for them.
 
2017-07-17 12:32:00 PM  

Thingster: Cthulhu Theory: LordJiro: America's police system is broken. Many (if not most) cops have absolutely no idea how to deescalate a situation, and those that do often get reprimanded for talking people down instead of gunning down the "threat". And our legal system has repeatedly told police that if they even feel a twinge of 'fear', they're completely justified in killing someone, no matter how little of a threat was posed, or how cooperative the victim was.

The entire system needs to be rebuilt from the ground up.

Not calling you a liar, but I would like a citation for this one.

And it's not just the legal system training them to react lethally to threats, it's their training and their protocols.

But that's not really relevant here since it was the kid that shot himself, not the police.

I suppose if you want to argue the amount of force they brought was symptomatic of this, I won't argue that, but let's respect the fact that all signs at this point lead to a suicidal kid living up to the threat he gave his parents if they wouldn't leave him alone and backed him into a corner. They did exactly what he asked them not to when the mom showed up at his door and then by calling the police. This is a failure of parenting as well as police overreaction. SWAT and Armored vehicles all because you couldn't give your emotionally distraught kid a little breathing room. Totally worth it.

There was an article on here a couple months ago where a cop talked a guy down, and was reprimanded for not shooting the guy.


Is this the one?
 
2017-07-17 12:32:20 PM  

Aidan: bisi: Question for the EMS or other knowledgeable farkers: what is the best course of action when a person (family member, friend, whatever) is armed and threatening suicide or something similar, when you can't handle the situation by yourself but would still like them to remain un"helped" by police?

/It is still quite a leap from "person considering or talking about suicide" to "ex-person". Interesting article I read a while ago: https://mobile.nytimes.com/blogs/opinionator/2013/06/02/a-simple-way-t​o-reduce-suicides/?referer=

I'm not EMS, but I date one.. :) I believe the EMS response is that they get the fark out of the way. EMS are (supposed to) protect themselves first and foremost. They are not supposed to risk their health no matter how catastrophic the situation. I'm not however sure of how many of them remember that...

I'm hoping actual EMS people have a better response, but I believe they're told (forcefully) that they must rely on the police to deal with armed patients.


As well they should.
But when the only response in the police's repertoire is to "neutralize the threat" as efficiently and quickly as possible this becomes a no-win situation.
When you have a jumper, it is often possible to talk him down or prevent him from jumping by using non lethal force. And studies show that about half the time there won't be a second attempt.
But when you start moving in on him from all directions, he will feel forced to make a decision.

Why is this so much different when the person is armed? Suicidal does not automatically equal homicidal. As evidenced by the fact, that the kid didn't go Tony Montana on the cops, even when pressured.
 
2017-07-17 12:34:05 PM  
This is what we get as a country. In which, even the Barney Fifes can get a blank check via homeland security
to buy used or unused war equipment for a podunk  sheriffs  outfit.

/armed police I get, but swat an a bearcat saying they where over-armed for the situation is to big of an understatement
 
2017-07-17 12:34:39 PM  

xalres: ONLY call the cops if required to do so for an insurance claim. They are not there to help.


I tried that once when someone drove thru our property.  Cop showed up, looked at the damage and said, "What do you want me to do about it?".

Completely worthless.  He probably went back out to the main drag to write more speeding tickets.

aka "Glorified Meter Maid".

/rant off
 
2017-07-17 12:34:41 PM  
So they think have identified the Minnesota cop who killed the Australian.
http://kstp.com/news/mohamed-noor-officer-involved-shooting-justine-d​i​amond-fatal-minneapolis-shooting/4544324/#.WWzXWMZhnM0.twitter

So it's like a bizzarro world version of the usual police shooting.
 
2017-07-17 12:39:12 PM  

Splinthar: Lusiphur: docpeteyJ: Yeah, sometimes it's the family that do really stupid things that leave you wondering just WTF they were thinking.  I'm torn on whether or not the family in TFA played a role in what I see as a completely avoidable and pointless tragedy.

Last year, my Rescue Unit was dispatched on a teenager who, the parents reported, was alone in the house and having a severe anxiety attack*.No need for PD backup.  My partner and  I responded to find a distraught 16-year old sitting on the couch with a blanket on his lap. Absolutely we were in the mindset that this was a medical call, and nothing more. We see it all the time.

Did the parents mention that he had a history of suicide attempts?  That he wasn't actually having an anxiety attack, but had called them to say he wanted to kill himself?  THAT THERE WAS A LOADED, UNSECURED FIREARM IN THE HOUSE?  Which he told his parents he was in possession of?  No, they did not**.  And considering Utah has a reputation for NOT shooting first and asking questions later, I don't think their omission of these very important facts had anything to do with fear for their child's safety from over-enthusiastic cops.  Might just have had something to do with the fact that there was a meth lab in their shed.

What the parents DID do was that they reported it was an anxiety attack, stated it was an ongoing problem with him, and which (at least here) is treated as a medical problem, not a police one.  So off we went expecting to administer the appropriate medication and transport him for observation in the ER.  No need for PD backup.

Within five minutes of our arrival, where we found an obviously distraught teenaged male sitting on the couch with a blanket in his lap, he pulled out a loaded 9mm, put it to his head, and pulled the trigger.  My partner, who is damned lucky to be alive, was less than five feet away from him at the time, although he later needed medical care to remove a chunk of the kid's skull from his face.  When I heard t ...

You really just typed that out and put it on the internet for people to see.

Look there is a whole host of ways to say that you are unhappy with the way first responders like police deal with problems, but categorically the statement:

No offense, and I'm sure you and your team are wonderful people, but I would rather see a hundred first responders shot than one innocent victim just having a tough time.

Tumblr is leaking and that septic, naive, self-medicating/diagnosing bullshiat is societally toxic.  You are a callous bigot if you think its ok to treat first-responders like meat on a 100-1 harm scenario.
Police need to follow better force-escalation guidelines but there is no need to be so cavalier with other First Responders.

Your mentality is what reinforces the believe that civilians are the enemy, because your assertion is disgusting and turned my stomach.  Please take a moment and re-evaluate that line and realize how inhumane it is.


Triggered much? Last year (2016), 135 police officers were killed in the line of duty, including traffic fatalities. This year (2017) SO FAR the police have killed 523 people. I don't know where you get Tumblr it self-medicating/self-diagnosing from, other than you just have a list of Boogeyman words you spot when you're confronted by opinions you don't like, but it seems like the police have made it clear that they value their lives way above the lives of anyone else. I'm not reinforcing shiat - the police have already made it clear that they see "civilians" as the enemy, and if it keeps going, it won't be long until EMTs start seeing themselves as combat medics and carrying guns. And for the record, you're all farking civilians. The fact that you would even think to use that word tells me exactly what kind of power-tripping asshole you are.

At the end of the day, you, as a first responder, have pledged to sacrifice your life for the life of another if it comes down to it. At that point, I don't see why the ratio matters. Especially since I'm not advocating for violence against first responders. Merely pointing out that if it came down to a choice of kill an EMT or kill a mentally handicapped man with a gun that could be talked down if he was given half a chance, the choice is a no brainer, and I would make it every time.

If that man with a gun opened for in a crowd, or even opened fire on first responders and didn't respond to de-escalation, then the opposite choice would become a no brainer. But until the is actual, immediate, and unambiguous threat to the safety of others first and the safety of responders second, the "civilian" gets priority. Every. Single. Time.
 
2017-07-17 12:44:25 PM  

kcfarker: Nidiot: doglover: cman: Lesson learned: Don't call the cops for a suicidal person

They just shot an unarmed blonde white Australian woman in Minneapolis, after she called them for help http://www.startribune.com/woman-killed-in-officer-involved-shoot​ing-in-south-minneapolis/434782213/#1 so you have to update that advice. Skin tone is now irrelevant.

Don't call the police unless you want someone shot.

What the ever loving hell is wrong with cops in this country?!?  If you are a cop and these stories don't make you seriously sick, angry or worse... and if you don't say or do anything about it... then you are just as big of a piece of shiat that these guys are.  Period.

And if you have a body cam on your person and it's not ON and RECORDING for any reason when incidents like this go down, then you are essentially admitting guilt and should be locked up until proven otherwise.

Oh, I know this will bring the 'innocent until proven guilty' wonks out of the woodwork...  But cops are basically put in charge of upholding the law.  By doing so you are NOT above that law and you ARE held to a higher standard than those who the law is designed to protect.  There needs to be some form of consequence for those that don't and we're long overdue for this type of justice reform.


I doubt a body cam would have helped anything except providing audio of the altercation. The article states the woman was shot by the passenger thru the driver's door which means both officers were in the car, and so video would've just shown dash footage. The audio would help, sure, but we could have got the same from dash cam footage I would assume.

As for the shooting itself, I'm going to hazard a guess and suggest the woman wasn't getting the response she expected from the police, got belligerent, which the passenger cop took as a threat, and shot her. I can't imagine a way in which lethal force would have been an acceptable response here unless she had a knife (she's not a gun owner according to the article) so this is clearly something that should be punished severely. Even if she were punching the other cop in the face, they have other tools to subdue her that don't mean she should be shot.

But then I remember that I'm armed with knowledge the police weren't, and they could easily claim they thought she might have a gun, and thus lethal force becomes acceptable because their training teaches them to assume the worst until they can verify the person isn't a threat. And here we are, another unnecessary corpse not only most likely allowed by the system, but potentially encouraged by the system and it's procedures.
 
2017-07-17 12:44:59 PM  

Cubicle Jockey: So they think have identified the Minnesota cop who killed the Australian.
http://kstp.com/news/mohamed-noor-officer-involved-shooting-justine-di​amond-fatal-minneapolis-shooting/4544324/#.WWzXWMZhnM0.twitter

So it's like a bizzarro world version of the usual police shooting.


They always ID the scary brown guy. Always.

But here's the issue now: the guy doesn't get fired and charged and all everyone will be up in arms because dead blonde.

If he gets charged and convicted, then it's going to be racism since the brown guy was charged for killing the blonde woman when white cops are rarely charged for shooting brown men.

This is the case needed to really bring accountability to police shootings, but I can't wait for the cognitive dissonance over the potential for accountability for police shooting of brown men might come from the shooting of a white woman by a brown man.
 
2017-07-17 12:47:38 PM  

docpeteyJ: Lusiphur: No offense, and I'm sure you and your team are wonderful people, but I would rather see a hundred first responders shot than one innocent victim just having a tough time. First responders know their lives are in danger every time they come in to work. That's part of the job description.

No, it's not, at least where EMS personnel are involved.  While we do, indeed, risk our lives in order to save others, it's not a requirement that we sacrifice our safety in clearly dangerous situations.  A dead medic does no one any good. I consider sending in unarmed and unprotected medics into a house with an armed, suicidal person as stupid and irresponsible as asking them to run into a burning house with no protective gear.  I want them safe so they can continue to go about their jobs of saving people.

Three people who work as emergency EMTs, firefighters, and police officers should expect that every call they go on might be their last, and be ok with that. On the other hand, NO ONE should feel like they are putting their lives (or the lives of loved ones) at risk just by calling for help.

Very true.  Every time a call goes as stupidly bad as it did in TFA, it compromises the trust the public has in First Responders (be them cops or medics) to keep them safe.

The line at which any first responder should be allowed to prioritize their lives over the lives of any other person needs to be a bright line somewhere just on the other side of "this person has taken clear and unambiguous actions to actively try to kill myself or others." And even then, it should be a difficult choice

Did you miss the part where I explained that the parents of the victim LIED TO US about the circumstances? We went in having NO idea the patient was suicidal and armed.  If we had known, the protocol is to have PD stage nearby why a specially-trained hostage negotiator/psychologist attempts to "talk down" the patient.

Everyone wants a peaceful resolution.  But in the real world where I live, sometimes that doesn't happen, no matter how hard we try.  Damned if we do, damned if we don't.


No, it's not, at least where EMS personnel are involved. While we do, indeed, risk our lives in order to save others, it's not a requirement that we sacrifice our safety in clearly dangerous situations. A dead medic does no one any good. I consider sending in unarmed and unprotected medics into a house with an armed, suicidal person as stupid and irresponsible as asking them to run into a burning house with no protective gear. I want them safe so they can continue to go about their jobs of saving people.

Honestly, I don't want dead medics either. But again, in a situation where it's one or the other, the choice isn't difficult for me. Should the parents have told you the kid was suicidal? Probably. Should they have told you he had a gun? I wouldn't be willing to take that risk. Yes, it could end with a trained negotiator talking him down. But it's just as likely, if not more, that instead of a trained negotiator and medical care, the kid would have gotten a flashbamg, battering ram, and 10 bullets to the chest. And until those odds improve dramatically, I'm not going to change my opinion.

I'm sorry this puts you and your team at risk, I really am. That's not your fault, and you shouldn't have to bear that responsibility. But that IS the world we live in. And as long as we do, I'm going to lean heavily on the side of people being shot by guys in body armor than on the side of the guys in body armor and the people that work with them.
 
2017-07-17 12:49:04 PM  

docpeteyJ: Lusiphur: No offense, and I'm sure you and your team are wonderful people, but I would rather see a hundred first responders shot than one innocent victim just having a tough time. First responders know their lives are in danger every time they come in to work. That's part of the job description.

No, it's not, at least where EMS personnel are involved.  While we do, indeed, risk our lives in order to save others, it's not a requirement that we sacrifice our safety in clearly dangerous situations.  A dead medic does no one any good. I consider sending in unarmed and unprotected medics into a house with an armed, suicidal person as stupid and irresponsible as asking them to run into a burning house with no protective gear.  I want them safe so they can continue to go about their jobs of saving people.

Three people who work as emergency EMTs, firefighters, and police officers should expect that every call they go on might be their last, and be ok with that. On the other hand, NO ONE should feel like they are putting their lives (or the lives of loved ones) at risk just by calling for help.

Very true.  Every time a call goes as stupidly bad as it did in TFA, it compromises the trust the public has in First Responders (be them cops or medics) to keep them safe.

The line at which any first responder should be allowed to prioritize their lives over the lives of any other person needs to be a bright line somewhere just on the other side of "this person has taken clear and unambiguous actions to actively try to kill myself or others." And even then, it should be a difficult choice

Did you miss the part where I explained that the parents of the victim LIED TO US about the circumstances? We went in having NO idea the patient was suicidal and armed.  If we had known, the protocol is to have PD stage nearby why a specially-trained hostage negotiator/psychologist attempts to "talk down" the patient.


Given what we saw happen here, what the parents of the victim in your case did was the right thing to do unless they were familiar with your protocol of sending in a psychologist.

And the part of your protocol that has the police involved at all is still a problem.  There should be no police called, they shouldn't be nearby, they shouldn't be allowed anywhere near the scene.

Now, it's NOT your fault that lying to 911 or just not calling anybody is the right thing to do.  The fault is with police training and procedure.  But at this point trust in the police is rightly compromised, they CANNOT be trusted.

I don't want medics hurt either, and it's not doing anybody any good if they are.  But the police are incapable of handling medical/mental health situations properly, and will continue to be incapable of it until fundamental changes are made in police training.

If you are in a position to have any control over your procedure, you should seriously consider revising it to get the psychologist/negotiator on your staff and remove police from involvement.
 
2017-07-17 12:50:38 PM  
You, admins, why has there yet to be a green on the Australian lady getting shot?

There have been several redlinks with discussions already in them
 
2017-07-17 12:50:50 PM  

Lusiphur: Splinthar: Lusiphur: docpeteyJ: Yeah, sometimes it's the family that do really stupid things that leave you wondering just WTF they were thinking.  I'm torn on whether or not the family in TFA played a role in what I see as a completely avoidable and pointless tragedy.

Last year, my Rescue Unit was dispatched on a teenager who, the parents reported, was alone in the house and having a severe anxiety attack*.No need for PD backup.  My partner and  I responded to find a distraught 16-year old sitting on the couch with a blanket on his lap. Absolutely we were in the mindset that this was a medical call, and nothing more. We see it all the time.

Did the parents mention that he had a history of suicide attempts?  That he wasn't actually having an anxiety attack, but had called them to say he wanted to kill himself?  THAT THERE WAS A LOADED, UNSECURED FIREARM IN THE HOUSE?  Which he told his parents he was in possession of?  No, they did not**.  And considering Utah has a reputation for NOT shooting first and asking questions later, I don't think their omission of these very important facts had anything to do with fear for their child's safety from over-enthusiastic cops.  Might just have had something to do with the fact that there was a meth lab in their shed.

What the parents DID do was that they reported it was an anxiety attack, stated it was an ongoing problem with him, and which (at least here) is treated as a medical problem, not a police one.  So off we went expecting to administer the appropriate medication and transport him for observation in the ER.  No need for PD backup.

Within five minutes of our arrival, where we found an obviously distraught teenaged male sitting on the couch with a blanket in his lap, he pulled out a loaded 9mm, put it to his head, and pulled the trigger.  My partner, who is damned lucky to be alive, was less than five feet away from him at the time, although he later needed medical care to remove a chunk of the kid's skull from his face.  When I heard t ...

You really just typed that out and put it on the internet for people to see.

Look there is a whole host of ways to say that you are unhappy with the way first responders like police deal with problems, but categorically the statement:

No offense, and I'm sure you and your team are wonderful people, but I would rather see a hundred first responders shot than one innocent victim just having a tough time.

Tumblr is leaking and that septic, naive, self-medicating/diagnosing bullshiat is societally toxic.  You are a callous bigot if you think its ok to treat first-responders like meat on a 100-1 harm scenario.
Police need to follow better force-escalation guidelines but there is no need to be so cavalier with other First Responders.

Your mentality is what reinforces the believe that civilians are the enemy, because your assertion is disgusting and turned my stomach.  Please take a moment and re-evaluate that line and realize how inhumane it is.

Triggered much? Last year (2016), 135 police officers were killed in the line of duty, including traffic fatalities. This year (2017) SO FAR the police have killed 523 people. I don't know where you get Tumblr it self-medicating/self-diagnosing from, other than you just have a list of Boogeyman words you spot when you're confronted by opinions you don't like, but it seems like the police have made it clear that they value their lives way above the lives of anyone else. I'm not reinforcing shiat - the police have already made it clear that they see "civilians" as the enemy, and if it keeps going, it won't be long until EMTs start seeing themselves as combat medics and carrying guns. And for the record, you're all farking civilians. The fact that you would even think to use that word tells me exactly what kind of power-tripping asshole you are.

At the end of the day, you, as a first responder, have pledged to sacrifice your life for the life of another if it comes down to it. At that point, I don't see why the ratio matters. Especially since I'm not advocating for violence against first responders. Merely pointing out that if it came down to a choice of kill an EMT or kill a mentally handicapped man with a gun that could be talked down if he was given half a chance, the choice is a no brainer, and I would make it every time.

If that man with a gun opened for in a crowd, or even opened fire on first responders and didn't respond to de-escalation, then the opposite choice would become a no brainer. But until the is actual, immediate, and unambiguous threat to the safety of others first and the safety of responders second, the "civilian" gets priority. Every. Single. Time.


This should not be an either-or situation. An EMT is unarmed and has every right to get out of dodge.

This is not about public servants "sacrificing" themselves. It is about the police protecting the citizens and not just themselves from the citizens. They have the means, so they should have the responsibility.
 
2017-07-17 12:51:00 PM  

Cthulhu Theory: Lusiphur: No offense, and I'm sure you and your team are wonderful people, but I would rather see a hundred first responders shot than one innocent victim just having a tough time. First responders know their lives are in danger every time they come in to work. That's part of the job description. Three people who work as emergency EMTs, firefighters, and police officers should expect that every call they go on might be their last, and be ok with that. On the other hand, NO ONE should feel like they are putting their lives (or the lives of loved ones) at risk just by calling for help. The line at which any first responder should be allowed to prioritize their lives over the lives of any other person needs to be a bright line somewhere just on the other side of "this person has taken clear and unambiguous actions to actively try to kill myself or others." And even then, it should be a difficult choice

The moment they shoot that first person, they've overstepped the bounds of innocence into guilt and a lethal threat. You cannot blame police for responding in kind at this point. However, I do agree, it shouldn't be a police shooting first kind of situation 95% of the time, and it shouldn't be an easy decision for them.


You will get no argument from me there, though I will say that I would still prioritize capture instead of kill if at all possible.

Really, I'm not saying we should send EMTs and firemen into a meat grinder. But I am saying that there is too much of an attitude right that we need to air in the side of caution for police and other first responders, and my point is that that is the wrong side of the scale to put a thumb on. Every process and procedure should be built on the assumption that the first responder is the least valuable life in the equation.
 
2017-07-17 12:53:10 PM  

Lusiphur: Triggered much? Last year (2016), 135 police officers were killed in the line of duty, including traffic fatalities. This year (2017) SO FAR the police have killed 523 people. I don't know where you get Tumblr it self-medicating/self-diagnosing from, other than you just have a list of Boogeyman words you spot when you're confronted by opinions you don't like, but it seems like the police have made it clear that they value their lives way above the lives of anyone else. I'm not reinforcing shiat - the police have already made it clear that they see "civilians" as the enemy, and if it keeps going, it won't be long until EMTs start seeing themselves as combat medics and carrying guns. And for the record, you're all farking civilians.


They are literally trained to treat every traffic stop as a potential life or death situation. Civilians are not "the enemy" as you put it, but potential threats to their life. There's a fundamental difference there I think you need to consider.
 
2017-07-17 12:57:07 PM  

Cthulhu Theory: Lusiphur: Triggered much? Last year (2016), 135 police officers were killed in the line of duty, including traffic fatalities. This year (2017) SO FAR the police have killed 523 people. I don't know where you get Tumblr it self-medicating/self-diagnosing from, other than you just have a list of Boogeyman words you spot when you're confronted by opinions you don't like, but it seems like the police have made it clear that they value their lives way above the lives of anyone else. I'm not reinforcing shiat - the police have already made it clear that they see "civilians" as the enemy, and if it keeps going, it won't be long until EMTs start seeing themselves as combat medics and carrying guns. And for the record, you're all farking civilians.

They are literally trained to treat every traffic stop as a potential life or death situation. Civilians are not "the enemy" as you put it, but potential threats to their life. There's a fundamental difference there I think you need to consider.


Occupational hazard. Do cops not know that going in?
At what point does it start to become self serving?
 
2017-07-17 12:57:48 PM  

Cubicle Jockey: So they think have identified the Minnesota cop who killed the Australian.
http://kstp.com/news/mohamed-noor-officer-involved-shooting-justine-di​amond-fatal-minneapolis-shooting/4544324/#.WWzXWMZhnM0.twitter

So it's like a bizzarro world version of the usual police shooting.


black cop killing white lady? he's going to jail.

not even snark, that is the status quo in the US. white cops can shoot s many unarmed black kids as they like, but a black cop shooting a white kid gets 40 years...
 
2017-07-17 01:00:10 PM  

trappedspirit: Millennium: Arachnophobe: It wasn't the parents that called, it was the ex-girlfriend.

[img.fark.net image 150x150]

The parents did not make the call. No word on whether the boyfriend played the "I'll kill myself if you leave" card, but if he did then there's no cause to blame the ex either; calling the cops is what you do in that situation.

WTF

To Russell Reeves, the meaning was clear - Austin would hurt himself if he wasn't left in peace. Stunned and afraid, Reeves dialed the Hingham police just after 10 p.m. to ask for help.


So that was strange, because the article clearly states the ex called. That's why I mentioned the Bears Repeating.

Looking back over the article, I now see a clearer picture: the police were called twice. Rough timeline:

- Breakup happens.
- Ex calls police, concerned about boyfriend
- Police call home to check on welfare. Dad checks his guns. Boyfriend is not home yet.
- Dad says his guns are fine. Before he checks boyfriend's gun, boyfriend arrives home. Dad says everything's okay, hangs up.
- Boyfriend and parents talk.
- Boyfriend says disturbing stuff. Dad gats scared and calls police back.

So from the police's perspective, the situation has very suddenly changed drastically. The man they'd been told wasn't in a stable state of mind, but previously been assured was fine at the moment, has very suddenly turned up suicidal. Not only this, but he has an additional gun that had previously not been accounted for at the scene. That's when the decision was made to send in SWAT.

Still not the greatest decision in the history of law enforcement, but not as egregious as many have made it out to be. From the information the police had on hand, a fairly standard breakup had very suddenly taken a much nastier turn than was typical, involving heretofore unknown weapons and incomplete information in previous reports.

I apologize for my role in the misinderstanding here.