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    More: Facepalm, Activist Linda Sarsour, somewhat frequent MSNBC, Washington, D.C., President of the United States, DNC delegate, Donald Trump, Rachel Maddow, Islam  
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4031 clicks; posted to Politics » on 06 Jul 2017 at 9:26 PM (15 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2017-07-06 05:12:54 PM  
It seems like it isn't helpful if you don't understand what the word jihad actually means. Jihad translates literally to "effort" or "struggle."
 
2017-07-06 05:29:41 PM  

Dubwise: It seems like it isn't helpful if you don't understand what the word jihad actually means. Jihad translates literally to "effort" or "struggle."


Yeah but subby thinks it means "struggling" with the Secret Service.
 
2017-07-06 05:45:15 PM  
But it's still OK for a presidential candidate to ask the Russians to hack the opponents email server, right?
 
2017-07-06 06:56:24 PM  

Hey you people scare-sharing Linda Sarsour's speech, read this transcription, which I just made because you all are trash misquoting her. pic.twitter.com/mzBWN6mhl9

- Chris Geidner (@chrisgeidner) July 6, 2017



img.fark.net
 
2017-07-06 09:03:23 PM  

Dubwise: It seems like it isn't helpful if you don't understand what the word jihad actually means. Jihad translates literally to "effort" or "struggle."


Or "Kampf"
 
2017-07-06 09:14:18 PM  

Dubwise: It seems like it isn't helpful if you don't understand what the word jihad actually means. Jihad translates literally to "effort" or "struggle."


Problem is a lot of Americans don't. A lot of them intentionally. This is just more fodder for Fox and right-wing radio to scare their old white audience.
 
2017-07-06 09:29:00 PM  

Dusk-You-n-Me: Hey you people scare-sharing Linda Sarsour's speech, read this transcription, which I just made because you all are trash misquoting her. pic.twitter.com/mzBWN6mhl9- Chris Geidner (@chrisgeidner) July 6, 2017


[img.fark.net image 688x728]


img.fark.net
 
2017-07-06 09:29:27 PM  

fusillade762: Dubwise: It seems like it isn't helpful if you don't understand what the word jihad actually means. Jihad translates literally to "effort" or "struggle."

Problem is a lot of Americans don't. A lot of them intentionally. This is just more fodder for Fox and right-wing radio to scare their old white audience.


If they get to set the terms and language of debatr, they've won to an extent where you may as well not have an argument and just cede whatever point they were trying to make.
 
2017-07-06 09:31:14 PM  

Dusk-You-n-Me: Hey you people scare-sharing Linda Sarsour's speech, read this transcription, which I just made because you all are trash misquoting her. pic.twitter.com/mzBWN6mhl9- Chris Geidner (@chrisgeidner) July 6, 2017


[img.fark.net image 688x728]


It's a lot better if you substitute 'oppressor' with 'infidel'
 
2017-07-06 09:35:15 PM  

Dubwise: It seems like it isn't helpful if you don't understand what the word jihad actually means. Jihad translates literally to "effort" or "struggle."


Won't stop GOP campaign ads from getting more millage out of the sound bite than CNN on a missing plane story.
 
2017-07-06 09:35:45 PM  
Libs honest to god defending jihad here
 
2017-07-06 09:36:55 PM  

Dubwise: It seems like it isn't helpful if you don't understand what the word jihad actually means. Jihad translates literally to "effort" or "struggle."


You don't go on jihad with the average intelligence among the American populace that you want, you go on jihad with the average intelligence among the American populace that you have.
 
2017-07-06 09:38:09 PM  
So, these guys must be Muslims:

img.fark.net
 
2017-07-06 09:40:31 PM  

Dubwise: It seems like it isn't helpful if you don't understand what the word jihad actually means. Jihad translates literally to "effort" or "struggle."


It's mostly associated with war, both to the American people and in classical Islamic law.
 
2017-07-06 09:41:27 PM  
I had three students named Jihad over a three year period. None of them Muslim as far as I knew. Which by my estimation three moms heard the word Jihad around 2003-4 and thought it sounded nice. So I looked it up and found out it meant something different than I assumed.
 
2017-07-06 09:43:27 PM  

spamdog: Libs honest to god defending jihad here


Not this one.
 
2017-07-06 09:44:20 PM  
She might not be helping much. Still more'n the rest of you mugs are doing.
 
2017-07-06 09:49:15 PM  

Dubwise: It seems like it isn't helpful if you don't understand what the word jihad actually means. Jihad translates literally to "effort" or "struggle."


No it doesn't. I speak Arabic. Anyone who claims "jihad" simply means "struggle" either doesn't fully understand Arabic, doesn't fully understand English, or is intentionally trying to take advantage of the fact that whomever they're saying this to doesn't understand Arabic. Yes, it is based on a root word that means "struggle." To an English speaker, that may seem like it means something, but Arabic has a much, much, much smaller vocabulary than English. Every word in Arabic, with very few exceptions, is based on a very small number of three-letter root words. In place of a large number of root words, it has a large number of possible suffixes, prefixes, and interfixes to alter a root word to mean what you want. So any word with a meaning even remotely related to any kind of "struggle" is going have the jhd three-letter root in it somewhere, but the word you make after applying the necessary morphology is NOT the same as the root word. And "jihad" does NOT mean the same as its root word "jahada."

That being said, I don't see how an intellectually honest person can take this particular occurrence as a call to violence.
 
2017-07-06 09:49:44 PM  

spamdog: Libs honest to god defending jihad here


If she used a word other than jihad, would you change your mind?
 
2017-07-06 09:53:31 PM  

Chemlight Battery: Dubwise: It seems like it isn't helpful if you don't understand what the word jihad actually means. Jihad translates literally to "effort" or "struggle."

No it doesn't. I speak Arabic. Anyone who claims "jihad" simply means "struggle" either doesn't fully understand Arabic, doesn't fully understand English, or is intentionally trying to take advantage of the fact that whomever they're saying this to doesn't understand Arabic. Yes, it is based on a root word that means "struggle." To an English speaker, that may seem like it means something, but Arabic has a much, much, much smaller vocabulary than English. Every word in Arabic, with very few exceptions, is based on a very small number of three-letter root words. In place of a large number of root words, it has a large number of possible suffixes, prefixes, and interfixes to alter a root word to mean what you want. So any word with a meaning even remotely related to any kind of "struggle" is going have the jhd three-letter root in it somewhere, but the word you make after applying the necessary morphology is NOT the same as the root word. And "jihad" does NOT mean the same as its root word "jahada."

That being said, I don't see how an intellectually honest person can take this particular occurrence as a call to violence.


Yeah but he got a bunch of 'smart' votes so he wins.
 
2017-07-06 09:55:56 PM  
Hey, can we not treat racist lies disguised as faux outrage that are just talking points from hate groups as if they are legitimate?

Thanks in advance.
 
2017-07-06 09:56:05 PM  
WHAT JIHAD IS
The Arabic word "jihad" is often translated as "holy war," but in a purely linguistic sense, the word " jihad" means struggling or striving.
The arabic word for war is: "al-harb".
In a religious sense, as described by the Quran and teachings of the Prophet Muhammad (s), "jihad" has many meanings. It can refer to internal as well as external efforts to be a good Muslims or believer, as well as working to inform people about the faith of Islam.
If military jihad is required to protect the faith against others, it can be performed using anything from legal, diplomatic and economic to political means. If there is no peaceful alternative, Islam also allows the use of force, but there are strict rules of engagement. Innocents - such as women, children, or invalids - must never be harmed, and any peaceful overtures from the enemy must be accepted.
Military action is therefore only one means of jihad, and is very rare. To highlight this point, the Prophet Mohammed told his followers returning from a military campaign: "This day we have returned from the minor jihad to the major jihad," which he said meant returning from armed battle to the peaceful battle for self-control and betterment.
In case military action appears necessary, not everyone can declare jihad. The religious military campaign has to be declared by a proper authority, advised by scholars, who say the religion and people are under threat and violence is imperative to defend them. The concept of "just war" is very important.
The concept of jihad has been hijacked by many political and religious groups over the ages in a bid to justify various forms of violence. In most cases, Islamic splinter groups invoked jihad to fight against the established Islamic order. Scholars say this misuse of jihad contradicts Islam.
Examples of sanctioned military jihad include the Muslims' defensive battles against the Crusaders in medieval times, and before that some responses by Muslims against Byzantine and Persian attacks during the period of the early Islamic conquests.
WHAT JIHAD IS NOT
Jihad is not a violent concept.
Jihad is not a declaration of war against other religions. It is worth noting that the Koran specifically refers to Jews and Christians as "people of the book" who should be protected and respected. All three faiths worship the same God. Allah is just the Arabic word for God, and is used by Christian Arabs as well as Muslims.
Military action in the name of Islam has not been common in the history of Islam. Scholars says most calls for violent jihad are not sanctioned by Islam.
Warfare in the name of God is not unique to Islam. Other faiths throughout the world have waged wars with religious justifications
 
2017-07-06 09:56:12 PM  

Lee Jackson Beauregard: spamdog: Libs honest to god defending jihad here

If she used a word other than jihad, would you change your mind?


That would imply there's a mind there to begin with and not just a reflex system that screams "LIBS BAD!" at everything.
 
hej [TotalFark]
2017-07-06 09:57:30 PM  

Dubwise: It seems like it isn't helpful if you don't understand what the word jihad actually means. Jihad translates literally to "effort" or "struggle."


It seems like the call "not to assimilate and please any other people and authority" is the part that's not helping.
 
2017-07-06 09:57:34 PM  

dailygrinds: WHAT JIHAD IS
The Arabic word "jihad" is often translated as "holy war," but in a purely linguistic sense, the word " jihad" means struggling or striving.
The arabic word for war is: "al-harb".
In a religious sense, as described by the Quran and teachings of the Prophet Muhammad (s), "jihad" has many meanings. It can refer to internal as well as external efforts to be a good Muslims or believer, as well as working to inform people about the faith of Islam.
If military jihad is required to protect the faith against others, it can be performed using anything from legal, diplomatic and economic to political means. If there is no peaceful alternative, Islam also allows the use of force, but there are strict rules of engagement. Innocents - such as women, children, or invalids - must never be harmed, and any peaceful overtures from the enemy must be accepted.
Military action is therefore only one means of jihad, and is very rare. To highlight this point, the Prophet Mohammed told his followers returning from a military campaign: "This day we have returned from the minor jihad to the major jihad," which he said meant returning from armed battle to the peaceful battle for self-control and betterment.
In case military action appears necessary, not everyone can declare jihad. The religious military campaign has to be declared by a proper authority, advised by scholars, who say the religion and people are under threat and violence is imperative to defend them. The concept of "just war" is very important.
The concept of jihad has been hijacked by many political and religious groups over the ages in a bid to justify various forms of violence. In most cases, Islamic splinter groups invoked jihad to fight against the established Islamic order. Scholars say this misuse of jihad contradicts Islam.
Examples of sanctioned military jihad include the Muslims' defensive battles against the Crusaders in medieval times, and before that some responses by Muslims against Byzantine and Persian attacks during the period of the early Islamic conquests.
WHAT JIHAD IS NOT
Jihad is not a violent concept.
Jihad is not a declaration of war against other religions. It is worth noting that the Koran specifically refers to Jews and Christians as "people of the book" who should be protected and respected. All three faiths worship the same God. Allah is just the Arabic word for God, and is used by Christian Arabs as well as Muslims.
Military action in the name of Islam has not been common in the history of Islam. Scholars says most calls for violent jihad are not sanctioned by Islam.
Warfare in the name of God is not unique to Islam. Other faiths throughout the world have waged wars with religious justifications


All religions are bad so vote jihad?
 
2017-07-06 09:58:05 PM  

Chemlight Battery: Dubwise: It seems like it isn't helpful if you don't understand what the word jihad actually means. Jihad translates literally to "effort" or "struggle."

No it doesn't. I speak Arabic. Anyone who claims "jihad" simply means "struggle" either doesn't fully understand Arabic, doesn't fully understand English, or is intentionally trying to take advantage of the fact that whomever they're saying this to doesn't understand Arabic. Yes, it is based on a root word that means "struggle." To an English speaker, that may seem like it means something, but Arabic has a much, much, much smaller vocabulary than English. Every word in Arabic, with very few exceptions, is based on a very small number of three-letter root words. In place of a large number of root words, it has a large number of possible suffixes, prefixes, and interfixes to alter a root word to mean what you want. So any word with a meaning even remotely related to any kind of "struggle" is going have the jhd three-letter root in it somewhere, but the word you make after applying the necessary morphology is NOT the same as the root word. And "jihad" does NOT mean the same as its root word "jahada."

That being said, I don't see how an intellectually honest person can take this particular occurrence as a call to violence.


Lies. Arabic only has three words

img.fark.net
 
2017-07-06 10:05:46 PM  

spamdog: Libs honest to god defending jihad here


2static3.fjcdn.com
 
2017-07-06 10:06:51 PM  
She specifically refers to it as a "struggle".  Apart from the whole optics of stirring up low-information Trumpkins what's the big deal again?
 
2017-07-06 10:09:56 PM  

spamdog: Libs honest to god defending jihad here


This is the same "feminist" who said this about Ayaan Hirsi Ali, an actual feminist who survived female genital mutilation:
img.fark.net

Who attacked the documentary "Honor Diaries":
Honor Diaries - Official Trailer
Youtube 9WijI2U7dKY


And she helped organize the Women's March.

Fark bonus: "sarsour" means cockroach in Arabic.
 
2017-07-06 10:11:32 PM  
It's amazing there are people who will insist their imaginary definition of a word trumps it's actual meaning.
 
2017-07-06 10:13:40 PM  

edmo: It's amazing there are people who will insist their imaginary definition of a word trumps it's actual meaning.


wouldn't be the first time i saw it happen today
 
2017-07-06 10:16:43 PM  
Well that should turn out well.  Hope she doesnt plan on air travel any time soon...
 
2017-07-06 10:19:15 PM  
Who?
 
2017-07-06 10:19:58 PM  

Dusk-You-n-Me: Hey you people scare-sharing Linda Sarsour's speech, read this transcription, which I just made because you all are trash misquoting her. pic.twitter.com/mzBWN6mhl9- Chris Geidner (@chrisgeidner) July 6, 2017


[img.fark.net image 688x728]



Thanks for the context. Too bad most hearing about the speech isn't going to get it.


===========================================

And, frankly, the word "Jihad" is just too loaded a word to be of intelligent use in American discourse today. If you use it while trying to win over most people to a reasoned POV, it's going to have the exact opposite effect. Much like Bernie Sander's logically correct but still terribly ill-advised use of the term "Democratic Socialism" last year. Or, for using the swastika even. It had positive connotations for thousands and thousands of years, then Hitler came along and utterly ruined it over a decade or two.

Maybe the negative associations will fade over time, but for now anybody trying to "take back" those terms/symbols are going to be about as successful as Randall trying to "take back" the "Porch Monkey" label in the movie "Clerks 2."

I'd embed a YouTube clip or two for those impoverished souls among us who haven't seen the movie, but, well, the language isn't for the faint of heart.
 
2017-07-06 10:22:36 PM  

Ribb Rotgut: Fark bonus: "sarsour" means cockroach in Arabic.


Gahahaha
 
2017-07-06 10:23:03 PM  
I'm not sure why liberals would care what some backwards hick sky-fairy worshiper thinks.  Especially one that supports a cult that treats women so horribly.
 
2017-07-06 10:23:47 PM  
I'd Jyhad against the president, but I bet he plays a Malkavian stealth/bleed deck.  Which just means you need a bunch of deflects, but it's a meta that gets tedious after the 1000th time.  i.ytimg.com

.
 
2017-07-06 10:24:38 PM  

Dusk-You-n-Me: Hey you people scare-sharing Linda Sarsour's speech, read this transcription, which I just made because you all are trash misquoting her. pic.twitter.com/mzBWN6mhl9- Chris Geidner (@chrisgeidner) July 6, 2017


[img.fark.net image 688x728]


She played right into the right's hands, willingly and knowingly. Knowing that their base is stupid as shiat she just gave the 40% or so that staunchly support trumpee and republicans ammunition for four years. Also knowing that a large portion of this country is uneducated and reactionary on anything related to Muslim/Jihad terminology, I can't think anything other than this being insanely stupid.

Anything she does from now on is tainted and will be painted with those terms, and anyone on the left that wants to accomplish anything should distance themselves from her.

/is it right that that is the outcome? no, but that's our current reality
 
2017-07-06 10:26:31 PM  
img.fark.net
 
2017-07-06 10:26:39 PM  

OhioUGrad: and anyone on the left that wants to accomplish anything should distance themselves from her.


gee it's a wonder dems are called spineless
 
2017-07-06 10:27:29 PM  
The heartbreak of psoriasis fundamentalism.
 
2017-07-06 10:29:29 PM  

Dubwise: It seems like it isn't helpful if you don't understand what the word jihad actually means. Jihad translates literally to "effort" or "struggle."


Yeah, keep farking that puppy and defend the indefensible.

The woman is an extremely smart woman.  Smart enough to know that the word jihad is an emotionally charged one that carries a visceral reaction for both Muslims and non-Muslims.  There is a segment of the Muslim world (minority though it may be) that has sought to co-opt the word jihad to equate "struggle" with "wanton destruction."

Rightly, or wrongly, there are many non-Muslims that have accepted this definition.

So to stand up in front of a room full of people and start throwing around the word jihad is at best ignorant and at worst being intentionally inflammatory.

It's as stupid as George Bush's comments after 9-11 talking about our "crusade" in the Middle East.

The other thing is, and non-Muslims even if they've try to be open minded and tolerant, are faced with a situation where somebody is telling a fib.

I've read the Quoran (of course that means I probably no less than someone who hasn't) and have read articles by many Muslims and Imams (sp?) on Islamic thought and teachings.  They've noted the dual nature of the word jihad.  Jihad being both internal and external struggles.

The external struggle was not limited to just words but included ALL actions to repel an oppressor.  Ms. Sarsour is defining it as the external struggle but words only.  Okay, but since that is not defined in the term itself, the listener has to accept it as they hear it.

The larger issue though, while Ms. Sarsour assures us that the prophet said the struggle against an oppressor is the highest form of jihad, I have also been assured by a variety of Muslims and Islamic scholars that the Quoran and writing teach that INTERNAL jihad, the struggle against one's base inner nature, is the highest form of jihad and the one that is hardest for Muslims.

So somebody's fibbing.

Muslims shouldn't be forced to assimilate (whatever that is).  I accept as an article of faith that the average Muslim is as good as the average Christian, atheist, or any other group.  They shouldn't have to change their practices to make some snowflake comfortable.

OTOH, Bush was condemned for the use of deliberately inflammatory language... crusade.  Ms. Sarsour should be similarly condemned for the use of the word jihad.
 
2017-07-06 10:33:11 PM  
Jihad doesn't mean jihad.  A wrestling meme means jihad.  Pay attention, people.
 
2017-07-06 10:33:31 PM  

Dusk-You-n-Me: OhioUGrad: and anyone on the left that wants to accomplish anything should distance themselves from her.

gee it's a wonder dems are called spineless


Yeah because standing fast by an unlikeable poorly spoken politician with questionable judgment worked out so well for us last time.
 
2017-07-06 10:34:53 PM  
Dear God, I don't think I could've put more grammar, word choice, and other errors in there if I'd tried.
 
2017-07-06 10:36:48 PM  

Far Cough: Dusk-You-n-Me: OhioUGrad: and anyone on the left that wants to accomplish anything should distance themselves from her.

gee it's a wonder dems are called spineless

Yeah because standing fast by an unlikeable poorly spoken politician with questionable judgment worked out so well for us last time.


That's quite a leap from this. She's an activist, not a politician. I'm guessing very few people had heard of her prior to this. I know I hadn't.
 
2017-07-06 10:41:15 PM  
i.redd.it

Well, that makes two sides that aren't helping...
 
2017-07-06 10:43:42 PM  

mcnguyen: I'm not sure why liberals would care what some backwards hick sky-fairy worshiper thinks.  Especially one that supports a cult that treats women so horribly.


Because intersectionality, yo.

/woke
 
2017-07-06 10:45:04 PM  

Jacobite_55: Dubwise: It seems like it isn't helpful if you don't understand what the word jihad actually means. Jihad translates literally to "effort" or "struggle."

...

I've read the Quoran (of course that means I probably no less than someone who hasn't) and have read articles by many Muslims and Imams (sp?) on Islamic thought and teachings.  They've noted the dual nature of the word jihad.  Jihad being both internal and external struggles.

The external struggle was not limited to just words but included ALL actions to repel an oppressor.  Ms. Sarsour is defining it as the external struggle but words only.  Okay, but since that is not defined in the term itself, the listener has to accept it as they hear it.

The larger issue though, while Ms. Sarsour assures us that the prophet said the struggle against an oppressor is the highest form of jihad, I have also been assured by a variety of Muslims and Islamic scholars that the Quoran and writing teach that INTERNAL jihad, the struggle against one's base inner nature, is the highest form of jihad and the one that is hardest for Muslims.

So somebody's fibbing. ...


Saying "jihad" means an internal struggle is like telling a non-English speaker that the English word "war" means some kind of internal conflict. I'm sure you can find instances of it in literature where it is used figuratively in that sense, but when you use it that way, that's exactly what it is--figurative. It is only capable of meaning that figuratively because it has a real, actual meaning. And if you were to tell someone otherwise, you'd be fibbing. If I were to say, "the most important war is the war inside ourselves," that doesn't change the actual meaning of the word. "Jihad" is a very powerful word in Arabic, and it means what it means.
 
2017-07-06 10:45:48 PM  

Dusk-You-n-Me: OhioUGrad: and anyone on the left that wants to accomplish anything should distance themselves from her.

gee it's a wonder dems are called spineless


Her comment will be bandied about much like the out of context and misquoted Pelosi on the ACA comment. If you understand basic messaging and wanting to reach a larger audience with your message, you eliminate the barriers. Being aligned with her, with that quote and broad brushing of her comments, you automatically alienate people you need to influence to win elections.

If you don't see that, it's no wonder that democrats keep losing elections, have no universal message, and keep snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

I don't agree with it, but that's the reality of the world of the soundbite, bumper sticker slogan, and modern uninformed voter.
 
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