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(Slate)   Cory Booker's plan to reduce the prison population won't work, as you can't just reverse mass incarceration   ( slate.com) divider line
    More: Obvious, Crime, incarceration rates, criminal justice, criminal justice reform, Prison, Mass Incarceration Act, Brennan Center, high incarceration rates  
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1606 clicks; posted to Politics » on 05 Jul 2017 at 12:16 PM (15 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2017-07-05 09:30:09 AM  
Can we send them to Australia?
 
2017-07-05 09:38:37 AM  
On Wednesday, Sens. Cory Booker and Richard Blumenthal introduced abill with an ambitious goal. The Reverse Mass Incarceration Act is a proposal to amend the 1994 omnibus crime bill passed under President Clinton, which earmarked $12.5 billion in federal grants for states that passed harsher criminal sentencing laws. The new bill aims to do the opposite, by offering $20 billion in federal grant money over 10 years to states that decrease their prison populations by at least 7 percent over three years.

This could work, but "Despite this wide-ranging support, the bill thus far lacks a Republican sponsor."

The Government paid states to put more Americans in prison. Then it complains about spending too much money helping people who are sick and in need of health care. Who says slavery isn't alive and well in this nation? We just house em in concrete boxes with iron bars, this time.
 
2017-07-05 09:58:27 AM  
Oh well, best to not even try.
 
2017-07-05 10:17:16 AM  
No, you can't just reverse mass incarceration. You can, however, begin the task of reversing mass incarceration. Of which this would be a good first step.

Instead of incentivizing locking people up, we should incentivize having the smallest prison population necessary to keep people safe, which has been shown to be far, far less than ours.
 
2017-07-05 10:54:15 AM  

BalugaJoe: Can we send them to Australia?


You know who else sent prisoners to Australia?
 
2017-07-05 11:38:22 AM  

propasaurus: Oh well, best to not even try.


And it costs billions to do it and to stop doing it. Hmmmm.
 
2017-07-05 12:22:26 PM  
Reverse mass incarceration.. hmmm..

"Let my people go!"  Might work eventually...
 
2017-07-05 12:24:59 PM  

Eddie Adams from Torrance: BalugaJoe: Can we send them to Australia?

You know who else sent prisoners to Australia?


Hitler? There had to of been some Aussie POWS released by the Getmans.
 
2017-07-05 12:30:21 PM  

Alphax: Reverse mass incarceration.. hmmm..

"Let my people go!"  Might work eventually...


So... can we visit the 12 plagues on Tough-On-Crime candidates and their voters?
 
2017-07-05 12:31:34 PM  
Sure you can reverse it. Open the doors and tell them they are free to go.
Might not like the results but it can be done.
 
2017-07-05 12:32:18 PM  
Cory Booker is the Hero this country needs.

But, Trump is the Hero this country deserves.

So we'll hunt him, because he can take it.
 
2017-07-05 12:32:29 PM  
yeah but DURR Corey Booker is one of THEM. He's not PURE ENOUGH to run for PRESIDENT.

/derp
 
2017-07-05 12:39:25 PM  
I'm pretty certain that if not incarcerating your own citizens by the millions worked, there would be one or two other countries out there doing it already.
 
2017-07-05 12:39:25 PM  
I've always wanted to turn prisons into education campuses.  Make good grades and participation bonuses for earlier release, not to mention give them actual skills to use when released back into the workforce instead of 'shank with authority' or 'how to drop the soap without LOOKING like you dropped it"
 
2017-07-05 12:40:58 PM  

Lothar IB: Sure you can reverse it. Open the doors and tell them they are free to go.
Might not like the results but it can be done.


The population of the US is 4.4% of the World.

22% of ALL prisoners on EARTH are in the US.

195 countries on this planet suffer with the consequences of not locking up a huge portion of their population, and they seem to make it work (with much lower crime rates than ours in the other developed nations, BTW).

We may be spending our "crime and punishment" money poorly.

Our Justice system is too much like our healthcare system, in that it costs WAY more than what other nations spend, has worse results overall, and punishes the poor far worse than the rest.
 
MFK
2017-07-05 12:41:18 PM  
ugh. I hate this mentality of "this legislation doesn't magically fix every problem we can think of so let's not even try"
 
2017-07-05 12:43:16 PM  

MFK: ugh. I hate this mentality of "this legislation doesn't magically fix every problem we can think of so let's not even try"


Welcome to the mind of the bernie bro
 
2017-07-05 12:43:40 PM  
Good. The 1994 Crime Bill is the worst piece of crap legislation passed in my lifetime.

//And it haunted HRC last year.
 
2017-07-05 12:44:41 PM  
Headline says it "won't work", but the article just says it won't fix every problem ever and that crime will probably still exist after it's implemented.  Essentially, the actual content of the article seems to be saying that it will work pretty much exactly as intended.

So I'm having trouble getting a read on the tone here, basically.
 
2017-07-05 12:45:32 PM  
I don't understand why poor people can't just learn how to behave themselves, get good jobs and be not poor people without any help from the government me.  Won't it be great when we MAGA and finally cut all that free money and healthcare for the poors and overnight they...they...they stop taking my money.
 
2017-07-05 12:45:51 PM  
like half the people in prison are there for drug offenses. You could probably pick 14% of the smallest offenses and lower the rate to their goal in 1 day without causing any problems.
 
2017-07-05 12:45:54 PM  

ThatGuyFromTheInternet: I'm pretty certain that if not incarcerating your own citizens by the millions worked, there would be one or two other countries out there doing it already.


There are several programs that have been proven to reduce incarceration and recidivism. Mostly, investing in the neighborhoods at highest risk. And some countries HAVE done exactly that, to great success. It alludes to these programs in TFA.
 
2017-07-05 12:46:44 PM  

whidbey: yeah but DURR Corey Booker is one of THEM. He's not PURE ENOUGH to run for PRESIDENT.

/derp


You're the only one that's said it so far.
 
2017-07-05 12:46:46 PM  

Sammichless: Lothar IB: Sure you can reverse it. Open the doors and tell them they are free to go.
Might not like the results but it can be done.

The population of the US is 4.4% of the World.

22% of ALL prisoners on EARTH are in the US.

195 countries on this planet suffer with the consequences of not locking up a huge portion of their population, and they seem to make it work (with much lower crime rates than ours in the other developed nations, BTW).

We may be spending our "crime and punishment" money poorly.

Our Justice system is too much like our healthcare system, in that it costs WAY more than what other nations spend, has worse results overall, and punishes the poor far worse than the rest.


Then they shouldn't be poor.
 
MFK
2017-07-05 12:47:06 PM  

Ocean_Pimp: MFK: ugh. I hate this mentality of "this legislation doesn't magically fix every problem we can think of so let's not even try"

Welcome to the mind of the bernie bro


well that too, but I was more reminded of the discussions about gun control going on after Newtown.

"that plan will only reduce gun deaths by 20% therefore it is flawed and shouldn't be enacted."
 
2017-07-05 12:48:03 PM  

ThatGuyFromTheInternet: I'm pretty certain that if not incarcerating your own citizens by the millions worked, there would be one or two other countries out there doing it already.


And, so you don't think I'm making it up... here are some scholarly articles, going back up to 22 years ago.
 
2017-07-05 12:49:34 PM  

nmrsnr: No, you can't just reverse mass incarceration. You can, however, begin the task of reversing mass incarceration. Of which this would be a good first step.

Instead of incentivizing locking people up, we should incentivize having the smallest prison population necessary to keep people safe, which has been shown to be far, far less than ours.


Pretty much ^^THIS^^. It's not just a switch that can be flipped, and we can't just open the doors to the prisons. But you're right, we need to stop incentivising incarceration, and the first step should actually be putting the people who run private prisons, their lobbyists, and the politicians who support them, in prison.
 
MFK
2017-07-05 12:51:04 PM  

Ow! That was my feelings!: Good. The 1994 Crime Bill is the worst piece of crap legislation passed in my lifetime.

//And it haunted HRC stupid assholes tarred HRC with it despite her having nothing to do with itlast year.

 FTFY
 
2017-07-05 12:55:08 PM  

Smoking GNU: Alphax: Reverse mass incarceration.. hmmm..

"Let my people go!"  Might work eventually...

So... can we visit the 12 plagues on Tough-On-Crime candidates and their voters?


12? What were the other 2?
 
2017-07-05 12:58:51 PM  

whidbey: yeah but DURR Corey Booker is one of THEM. He's not PURE ENOUGH to run for PRESIDENT.

/derp


You should take a break.
 
2017-07-05 01:00:24 PM  
"This doesn't fix everything, therefore, we shouldn't even try."
 
2017-07-05 01:03:33 PM  

MFK: Ocean_Pimp: MFK: ugh. I hate this mentality of "this legislation doesn't magically fix every problem we can think of so let's not even try"

Welcome to the mind of the bernie bro

well that too, but I was more reminded of the discussions about gun control going on after Newtown.

"that plan will only reduce gun deaths by 20% therefore it is flawed and shouldn't be enacted."


20% is unrealistically optimistic. None of the proposed solutions would have had an appreciable impact on gun deaths. It was the pushers of these pre-packaged solutions who insisted if it "saved just one life" it was worth it.
 
2017-07-05 01:04:07 PM  

ThatGuyFromTheInternet: I'm pretty certain that if not incarcerating your own citizens by the millions worked, there would be one or two other countries out there doing it already.


Decades of constant propaganda by ignorant old conservative politicians have convinced voters that harsh treatment of lawbreakers is the only way to reduce crime, even though the statistics say otherwise.

Their also is the fact that Americans have been brought up with the simple-minded cultural 'value' that vengeance = justice, so any attempt to reform the system to bring it in line with other western democracies is political suicide.
 
2017-07-05 01:05:57 PM  
"The Reverse Mass Incarceration Act is a proposal to amend the 1994 omnibus crime bill passed under President Clinton, which earmarked $12.5 billion in federal grants for states that passed harsher criminal sentencing laws "

Fake news.  Clinton was the hero of the people.
 
MFK
2017-07-05 01:14:15 PM  

Next week's Tom Sawyer: MFK: Ocean_Pimp: MFK: ugh. I hate this mentality of "this legislation doesn't magically fix every problem we can think of so let's not even try"

Welcome to the mind of the bernie bro

well that too, but I was more reminded of the discussions about gun control going on after Newtown.

"that plan will only reduce gun deaths by 20% therefore it is flawed and shouldn't be enacted."

20% is unrealistically optimistic. None of the proposed solutions would have had an appreciable impact on gun deaths. It was the pushers of these pre-packaged solutions who insisted if it "saved just one life" it was worth it.


There are 30,000 unnecessary gun deaths EVERY YEAR dude. there won't be a magic bullet that solves every possible scenario. But thanks for perfectly illustrating the point I was making.
 
2017-07-05 01:14:48 PM  
Federal legislation dangling money can't influence state parole boards?
 
2017-07-05 01:18:20 PM  

bobug: ThatGuyFromTheInternet: I'm pretty certain that if not incarcerating your own citizens by the millions worked, there would be one or two other countries out there doing it already.

There are several programs that have been proven to reduce incarceration and recidivism. Mostly, investing in the neighborhoods at highest risk. And some countries HAVE done exactly that, to great success. It alludes to these programs in TFA.


He's being sarcastic.  I know, it's the internet, and it's hard to tell, but that was pretty clearly a joke about how no other first-world nations do the kind of mass-incarceration crap we do in the first place.
 
2017-07-05 01:18:31 PM  
"A perfect solution can't be done immediately for free + tax cuts to the wealthy so we should do nothing and pretend things we all know are bad aren't a problem"

-Every Republican
 
2017-07-05 01:19:40 PM  

Ow! That was my feelings!: Good. The 1994 Crime Bill is the worst piece of crap legislation passed in my lifetime.

//And it haunted HRC last year.


But but but Midnight Basketball!

/which actually was not a bad program
 
2017-07-05 01:20:19 PM  

bobug: ThatGuyFromTheInternet: I'm pretty certain that if not incarcerating your own citizens by the millions worked, there would be one or two other countries out there doing it already.

There are several programs that have been proven to reduce incarceration and recidivism. Mostly, investing in the neighborhoods at highest risk. And some countries HAVE done exactly that, to great success. It alludes to these programs in TFA.


img.fark.net
"Life is farked up. shiat, life is catching up to jail. If you live in an old project, a new jail is not that bad."
 
2017-07-05 01:20:57 PM  
Chettiar says this requirement is a way "to make the point that incarceration and crime are not inherently linked."

The Innocence Project has been working that angle for years.
 
2017-07-05 01:22:14 PM  

nmrsnr: Smoking GNU: Alphax: Reverse mass incarceration.. hmmm..

"Let my people go!"  Might work eventually...

So... can we visit the 12 plagues on Tough-On-Crime candidates and their voters?

12? What were the other 2?


Achy Breaky Heart on the radio and Reality TV
 
2017-07-05 01:22:30 PM  

MFK: Next week's Tom Sawyer: MFK: Ocean_Pimp: MFK: ugh. I hate this mentality of "this legislation doesn't magically fix every problem we can think of so let's not even try"

Welcome to the mind of the bernie bro

well that too, but I was more reminded of the discussions about gun control going on after Newtown.

"that plan will only reduce gun deaths by 20% therefore it is flawed and shouldn't be enacted."

20% is unrealistically optimistic. None of the proposed solutions would have had an appreciable impact on gun deaths. It was the pushers of these pre-packaged solutions who insisted if it "saved just one life" it was worth it.

There are 30,000 unnecessary gun deaths EVERY YEAR dude. there won't be a magic bullet that solves every possible scenario. But thanks for perfectly illustrating the point I was making.


And you mine.
 
2017-07-05 01:22:53 PM  

ThatGuyFromTheInternet: I'm pretty certain that if not incarcerating your own citizens by the millions worked, there would be one or two other countries out there doing it already.


Well some countries execute their convicts much more often than we do. However a quick search shows that they still don't execute enough people to make up the difference of how many more people we lock up per capita.

Looks, we're a vengeful, blood thirsty country. We may as well embrace it fully. I see no reason why we can't make a real version of The Running Man.
 
2017-07-05 01:25:34 PM  

MFK: Next week's Tom Sawyer: MFK: Ocean_Pimp: MFK: ugh. I hate this mentality of "this legislation doesn't magically fix every problem we can think of so let's not even try"

Welcome to the mind of the bernie bro

well that too, but I was more reminded of the discussions about gun control going on after Newtown.

"that plan will only reduce gun deaths by 20% therefore it is flawed and shouldn't be enacted."

20% is unrealistically optimistic. None of the proposed solutions would have had an appreciable impact on gun deaths. It was the pushers of these pre-packaged solutions who insisted if it "saved just one life" it was worth it.

There are 30,000 unnecessary gun deaths EVERY YEAR dude. there won't be a magic bullet that solves every possible scenario. But thanks for perfectly illustrating the point I was making.


The argument is that gun control would prevent zero (or almost zero) of said deaths.  I think it depends on the specific gun control measure.  I think closing the gun show loophole might help a bit; I think banning large magazines might reduce the death count in mass shooting incidents (while doing nothing for the 99% of gun deaths happening outside those).  I think almost all other gun control laws are useless or worse than useless (by causing criminals to be significantly better armed than law abiding citizens).
 
2017-07-05 01:28:52 PM  

Geotpf: MFK: Next week's Tom Sawyer: MFK: Ocean_Pimp: MFK: ugh. I hate this mentality of "this legislation doesn't magically fix every problem we can think of so let's not even try"

Welcome to the mind of the bernie bro

well that too, but I was more reminded of the discussions about gun control going on after Newtown.

"that plan will only reduce gun deaths by 20% therefore it is flawed and shouldn't be enacted."

20% is unrealistically optimistic. None of the proposed solutions would have had an appreciable impact on gun deaths. It was the pushers of these pre-packaged solutions who insisted if it "saved just one life" it was worth it.

There are 30,000 unnecessary gun deaths EVERY YEAR dude. there won't be a magic bullet that solves every possible scenario. But thanks for perfectly illustrating the point I was making.

The argument is that gun control would prevent zero (or almost zero) of said deaths.  I think it depends on the specific gun control measure.  I think closing the gun show loophole might help a bit; I think banning large magazines might reduce the death count in mass shooting incidents (while doing nothing for the 99% of gun deaths happening outside those).  I think almost all other gun control laws are useless or worse than useless (by causing criminals to be significantly better armed than law abiding citizens).


I should say all constitutional gun control measures.  Banning hand guns outright would, over a period of a decade or so, significantly reduce gun deaths.  But that's unconstitutional and wildly unpopular.
 
2017-07-05 01:46:31 PM  
Eliminate roughly 90% of vice crimes from the "consumer" end.  Congrats, you've taken the largest and most significant step to reducing mass incarceration.  Next, eliminate about half of the vice crime from the "manufacturer" end, particularly with several categories of drugs and the bulk of consensual sexual categories.

Watch the prisons largely empty out, and overall crime and the nasty second order effects drop like a rock.  In short, drop your puritanical bullshiat, and you'll be surprised how quickly some things correct.
 
2017-07-05 01:47:27 PM  
If America only imprisoned murderers and rapists it would still have more prisoners per capita than Western Europe. There is a deeper problem here than just locking up too many druggies or what have you.
 
2017-07-05 01:50:05 PM  

Ned Stark: If America only imprisoned murderers and rapists it would still have more prisoners per capita than Western Europe. There is a deeper problem here than just locking up too many druggies or what have you.


The proliferation of weapons and the worship of violence as the solution to any interpersonal conflict as part of our warped culture of ultramasculinity centered on violence lead to serious issues

Who could have imagined
 
2017-07-05 01:50:48 PM  

MFK: Ow! That was my feelings!: Good. The 1994 Crime Bill is the worst piece of crap legislation passed in my lifetime.

//And it haunted HRC stupid assholes tarred HRC with it despite her having nothing to do with itlast year.
 FTFY


HRC was very 'hands on' during Bill's presidency, but yeah, she didn't sign it or vote on it, she just supported it.

I should have probably stated that it still haunts the Democratic Party and not HRC specifically.
 
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