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(NYPost)   The military releases some more details about the crash involving the Fitz, including a small detail about what the ACX Crystal did   ( nypost.com) divider line
    More: Followup, Royal Navy, Adm. Joseph Aucoin, United States Navy, ACX Crystal, Philippine-flagged ACX Crystal, Naval Hospital Yokosuka, Fleet commander Vice, smaller USS Fitzgerald  
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11786 clicks; posted to Main » on 19 Jun 2017 at 6:20 PM (13 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2017-06-19 04:44:24 PM  
A "sharp turn", huh?
 
2017-06-19 04:59:32 PM  

Arcturus72: A "sharp turn", huh?


That is interesting...

A course correction is one thing, but a sharp turn at 0230hrs is awfully suspicious. Unless, it was an attempt to miss the previously unseen Fitz.

No sense in jumping to conclusions.
 
2017-06-19 05:12:41 PM  
upload.wikimedia.org
 
2017-06-19 05:26:11 PM  
 
2017-06-19 05:30:57 PM  
Curiouser and curiouser ...
 
2017-06-19 05:39:37 PM  
Does this mean the bridge crew of the Fitzgerald are still boned?
 
2017-06-19 05:45:26 PM  

siyuntz: Does this mean the bridge crew of the Fitzgerald are still boned?


Yes.
 
2017-06-19 05:49:46 PM  

siyuntz: Does this mean the bridge crew of the Fitzgerald are still boned?


I've never heard of a CO who kept his command after something like this, but I'm curious now... I know I wouldn't want to be one of the bridge crew right now...

Even if you did everything right, I'm sure right now they all feel like that one scene in Sully, where he's just been told that one of the engines was still at idle... You just KNOW you're screwed...
 
2017-06-19 06:23:25 PM  
This is going to be an interesting investigation. I wonder what the deal was the the MV doubling back on its course.
 
2017-06-19 06:30:49 PM  
Without an exact plot of each ship, other ships and the point of impact, these maps don't tell us much of anything terribly useful.  The course corrections are a bit odd but there's no context within which to understand the bare lines on the map.
 
2017-06-19 06:30:52 PM  
Someone dun goofed.
 
2017-06-19 06:32:20 PM  
And the captain had been promoted from XO to CO only in May.  That was a short command...
 
2017-06-19 06:32:29 PM  
To say this is fishy is to undersell the aquatic nature of fish.

This is either a series of failures and error between parties on both vessels or some level of deliberate action either willfully malicious or negligently. I wouldn't be surprised at this point to see this get some big hearings where some careers are going to be toast and some will see jail time. 

A US warship can understandably have an allision. It's a big ocean and we don't always know what's under the water. To collide with a massive surface vessel is just beyond bizarre.
 
2017-06-19 06:32:58 PM  
Seven servicemen's lives were lost.
And still Trump has ignored this.
Useless POTUS.
 
2017-06-19 06:35:43 PM  
In general, if you enter port with collision damage on your starboard side, you have some really serious explaining to do.
 
2017-06-19 06:36:32 PM  

Arcturus72: siyuntz: Does this mean the bridge crew of the Fitzgerald are still boned?

I've never heard of a CO who kept his command after something like this, but I'm curious now... I know I wouldn't want to be one of the bridge crew right now...

Even if you did everything right, I'm sure right now they all feel like that one scene in Sully, where he's just been told that one of the engines was still at idle... You just KNOW you're screwed...


I'd guess the justification for disciplining the bridge crew will be over them not keeping a safe distance from the approaching boat, and correcting course to avoid as needed. It's a big boat, and they were out in the ocean, so someone probably should have noticed it was approaching way before they got hit.

For the captain..... I'd guess something about how he didn't provide the leadership which would ensure his crew would do what's necessary to avoid farking up in a way where they get hit by a gigantic cargo ship. I feel bad for the captain... dude was asleep when the accident happened and he'll still be in deep shiat.

Feel worse for the 7 guys unlucky enough to wake up trapped in a flooded compartment.
 
2017-06-19 06:36:52 PM  

Kouta: siyuntz: Does this mean the bridge crew of the Fitzgerald are still boned?

Yes.


Eh, it's the new Navy...It'll blow over quicker if they give everyone a medal and nonchalantly discharge those that made egregious errors.
 
2017-06-19 06:41:12 PM  

Arcturus72: Even if you did everything right, I'm sure right now they all feel like that one scene in Sully, where he's just been told that one of the engines was still at idle...


Haven't seen it yet, but huh?  Link to a good writeup on this piece of info?
 
2017-06-19 06:42:09 PM  
img.fark.net
 
2017-06-19 06:42:36 PM  

Arcturus72: siyuntz: Does this mean the bridge crew of the Fitzgerald are still boned?

I've never heard of a CO who kept his command after something like this, but I'm curious now... I know I wouldn't want to be one of the bridge crew right now...

Even if you did everything right, I'm sure right now they all feel like that one scene in Sully, where he's just been told that one of the engines was still at idle... You just KNOW you're screwed...


I'm not a Navy veteran (or any kind of veteran) so here's what a  navy veteran buddy said:  " Without even reading anything I will tell the destroyer was at fault. The captain, xo, ops boss, navigator and bridge crew have immediately been relieved. ."
 
2017-06-19 06:42:51 PM  
images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com
 
2017-06-19 06:43:16 PM  
ISIS is active in the Philippines. This makes me wonder if the freighter's bridge was crewed by Jihadists.
 
2017-06-19 06:44:01 PM  
I cannot fathom ho much damage is below the waterline since the container ship has one of these bows:

img.fark.net
 
2017-06-19 06:45:24 PM  

gregscott: ISIS is active in the Philippines. This makes me wonder if the freighter's bridge was crewed by Jihadists.


If that were the case, though, wouldn't they have taken credit for it already...
 
2017-06-19 06:45:27 PM  
FTFA:  The ship's captain, Cmdr. Bryce Benson, was trapped inside his cabin, which was hit directly, Aucoin said.

This is way I still Fark even though some people here piss me off.

When the very first pictures came in on the damage to the ship, and people were wondering if the Captain had been knocked off outside the bridge, one farker came in and said that in this class of ship, the Captain's cabin is right where the ship hit.  He knew it because he had toured on 3 of these, and got his ass chewed there more than a few times.

Always an expert on Fark.  Sometimes an actual expert.
 
2017-06-19 06:45:41 PM  

Arcturus72: siyuntz: Does this mean the bridge crew of the Fitzgerald are still boned?

I've never heard of a CO who kept his command after something like this, but I'm curious now... I know I wouldn't want to be one of the bridge crew right now...

Even if you did everything right, I'm sure right now they all feel like that one scene in Sully, where he's just been told that one of the engines was still at idle... You just KNOW you're screwed...


His ship got t-boned by a larger less maneuverable vessel.   At best he's going to lose command of the ship.  The question is how many of his subordinates get taken down as well.
 
2017-06-19 06:46:06 PM  

omegaic: This is going to be an interesting investigation. I wonder what the deal was the the MV doubling back on its course.


I'm very dubious of any report stating the Crystal double-backed and then hit the Fitzgerald.  It's possible, sure.  But looking at the track, I think the most logical explanation is the collision happened before they turned around.

img.fark.net

I would speculate the collision happened at point A.  One report had both vessels heading ENE, so that slight jog to the north prior to point A would explain the damage to Crystal's port side, and Fitzgerald's starboard.

From A to B would be where Crystal assessed what happened and conducted muster, damage control, etc.

At point B they returned to course consistent with their base course to keep in known water and point C is where they turned around to investigate the other ship and provide any assistance, if needed.

Point D, a return to Point A, is where they stopped at the initial collision point to investigate the Fitzgerald.  And D through E is their departure from the scene, en route safe harbor.

But that track from point B to D is precisely what I would expect a lumbering vessel to do if they just had a collision and returned to the scene to investigate and/or assist.

Anyway, that's just my guess on it using scant information.  We'll know soon enough what happened, right down to the minute.
 
2017-06-19 06:46:46 PM  
Since it was a Filipino crewed ship, most of the sailors on board probably were US Navy veterans.  Hell, a quarter of the Fitzgerald's crew were probably Filipino.  I do not think it was intentional, unless the guy steering the cargo ship was pissed about friends and family getting deported by the Trump crackdowns.
 
2017-06-19 06:46:53 PM  

NewportBarGuy: [img.fark.net image 313x474]


I kid, but the loss of life saddens me. Brave seamen doing what they could to save the ship. I salute them all.
 
2017-06-19 06:46:59 PM  

gregscott: ISIS is active in the Philippines. This makes me wonder if the freighter's bridge was crewed by Jihadists.


If that was a movie plot, I'd leave the theater and demand my money back. The idea that a billo-dollar destroyer, lavishly equipped with electronics and with enough crew to man 10 merchantmen, can't get out of the way of a lumbering container ship?
 
2017-06-19 06:48:16 PM  

RomeoEightJuliet: omegaic: This is going to be an interesting investigation. I wonder what the deal was the the MV doubling back on its course.

I'm very dubious of any report stating the Crystal double-backed and then hit the Fitzgerald.  It's possible, sure.  But looking at the track, I think the most logical explanation is the collision happened before they turned around.

[img.fark.net image 650x390]

I would speculate the collision happened at point A.  One report had both vessels heading ENE, so that slight jog to the north prior to point A would explain the damage to Crystal's port side, and Fitzgerald's starboard.

From A to B would be where Crystal assessed what happened and conducted muster, damage control, etc.

At point B they returned to course consistent with their base course to keep in known water and point C is where they turned around to investigate the other ship and provide any assistance, if needed.

Point D, a return to Point A, is where they stopped at the initial collision point to investigate the Fitzgerald.  And D through E is their departure from the scene, en route safe harbor.

But that track from point B to D is precisely what I would expect a lumbering vessel to do if they just had a collision and returned to the scene to investigate and/or assist.

Anyway, that's just my guess on it using scant information.  We'll know soon enough what happened, right down to the minute.


Agreed. I suspect the plots have some time-zone discrepancy.
 
2017-06-19 06:50:19 PM  

SloppyFrenchKisser: Seven servicemen's lives were lost.
And still Trump has ignored this.
Useless POTUS.


Please, leave the Fanta Menace out of this, unless and until he says or tweets something stupid.

I think his clichéd,  minimum-effort "thoughts and prayers" tweet was lacking in eloquence, but what other public statement could he make right now that could possibly improve the situation?

It's only been a couple days. When the casualties are repatriated, I would expect him as Commander in Chief to give them an appropriate welcome home, but for now it's best for him to keep his yap shut.
 
2017-06-19 06:51:46 PM  

maddog2030: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4612334/USS-Fitzgerald-involv​e​d-collision-merchant-vessel.html?utm_source=fark&utm_medium=website&ut​m_content=link&ICID=ref_fark

Looks like a bunch of strange turns, scroll through the pix to the vessel track plot.


i.dailymail.co.uk

That's from a Bugs Bunny cartoon.
 
2017-06-19 06:51:49 PM  

Arcturus72: siyuntz: Does this mean the bridge crew of the Fitzgerald are still boned?

I've never heard of a CO who kept his command after something like this, but I'm curious now... I know I wouldn't want to be one of the bridge crew right now...

Even if you did everything right, I'm sure right now they all feel like that one scene in Sully, where he's just been told that one of the engines was still at idle... You just KNOW you're screwed...


CO had transferred control and retired for the night. The article said the collision trapped him in his quarters, so there Wasn't anything he could have done, particularly.

Now, the duty officer should have woken the captain when the cargo ship was approaching, sure. But let's see what the inquiry turns up. There should have been no way that cargo ship got close enough to have crashed/rammed.

/my money is on a deliberate ram from the Crystal. Philippine crew, possible terrorist infiltrator.
 
2017-06-19 06:52:24 PM  

NotThatGuyAgain: I cannot fathom ho much damage is below the waterline since the container ship has one of these bows:

[img.fark.net image 632x452]


Are you saying the front might have fallen off?
 
2017-06-19 06:54:43 PM  

NotThatGuyAgain: I cannot fathom ho much damage is below the waterline since the container ship has one of these bows:

[img.fark.net image 632x452]


USS Radford was involved in a collision with a merchant ship off Chesapeake Bay in 1999.  The merchie's bulbous bow punched straight through to the Radford's keel:

img.fark.net  img.fark.net

http://www.shipstructure.org/radford.shtml

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Arthur_W._Radford#Later_career_and_​c​ollision
 
2017-06-19 06:54:53 PM  

siyuntz: gregscott: ISIS is active in the Philippines. This makes me wonder if the freighter's bridge was crewed by Jihadists.

If that were the case, though, wouldn't they have taken credit for it already...


So... a naval version of those truck vs pedestrian attacks? Using a slow, ponderous cargo ship to ram a US Navy destroyer?

If so, I guess in retrospect it worked, but ex ante that doesn't seem like a very good plan.
 
2017-06-19 06:56:57 PM  

RomeoEightJuliet: omegaic: This is going to be an interesting investigation. I wonder what the deal was the the MV doubling back on its course.

I'm very dubious of any report stating the Crystal double-backed and then hit the Fitzgerald.  It's possible, sure.  But looking at the track, I think the most logical explanation is the collision happened before they turned around.

[img.fark.net image 650x390]

I would speculate the collision happened at point A.  One report had both vessels heading ENE, so that slight jog to the north prior to point A would explain the damage to Crystal's port side, and Fitzgerald's starboard.

From A to B would be where Crystal assessed what happened and conducted muster, damage control, etc.

At point B they returned to course consistent with their base course to keep in known water and point C is where they turned around to investigate the other ship and provide any assistance, if needed.

Point D, a return to Point A, is where they stopped at the initial collision point to investigate the Fitzgerald.  And D through E is their departure from the scene, en route safe harbor.

But that track from point B to D is precisely what I would expect a lumbering vessel to do if they just had a collision and returned to the scene to investigate and/or assist.

Anyway, that's just my guess on it using scant information.  We'll know soon enough what happened, right down to the minute.


Ah, of course. That makes sense. I guess it takes quite a while for a 29,000 ton ship to maneuver.
 
2017-06-19 06:57:12 PM  

winedrinkingman: Since it was a Filipino crewed ship, most of the sailors on board probably were US Navy veterans.  Hell, a quarter of the Fitzgerald's crew were probably Filipino.  I do not think it was intentional, unless the guy steering the cargo ship was pissed about friends and family getting deported by the Trump crackdowns


Gunner's Mate Seaman Dakota Kyle Rigsby, 19, from Palmyra, Va.
Yeoman 3rd Class Shingo Alexander Douglass, 25, from San Diego, Calif.
Sonar Technician 3rd Class Ngoc T Truong Huynh, 25, from Oakville, Conn.
Gunner's Mate 2nd Class Noe Hernandez, 26, from Weslaco, Texas
Fire Controlman 2nd Class Carlos Victor Ganzon Sibayan, 23, from Chula Vista, Calif.
Personnel Specialist 1st Class Xavier Alec Martin, 24, from Halethorpe, Md.
Fire Controlman 1st Class Gary Leo Rehm Jr., 37, from Elyria, Ohio [13]

Looks like a Vietnamese, a Hispanic or two, and a bunch of white guys.
.
 
2017-06-19 06:58:03 PM  
I looked at too much news today so I can't find the sources for these two reports which were nevertheless more recent than this article.

1. I saw a report that the Crystal had its lights and transponder off, but even so radar should have warned Fitz's bridge and someone would have called the Captain to the bridge. The Captain would not have been in his quarters to get injured if any kind of warning had sounded.  Wonder what the weather was...the moon about 1/2 full should have helped.

2.  I saw another report that all 30 of the crew on the Crystal were sound asleep and that it was on autopilot (in such a busy place??? why???)

That the accident happened at all just seems impossible to me.  Unless it wasn't an accident.
 
2017-06-19 06:59:33 PM  

SloppyFrenchKisser: Seven servicemen's lives were lost.
And still Trump has ignored this.
Useless POTUS.


i.imgflip.com
 
2017-06-19 07:01:32 PM  

siyuntz: gregscott: ISIS is active in the Philippines. This makes me wonder if the freighter's bridge was crewed by Jihadists.

If that were the case, though, wouldn't they have taken credit for it already...


Not if they ever want to see that crew again. But I don't think this had anything to do with them.
 
2017-06-19 07:02:09 PM  
People would be surprised to know how often this happens. My girlfriend asked me last night how it was even possible when you have 3000 miles of open sea around you.

<csb>
When I was a young Marine many years ago, I was stationed on the USS Inchon as part of the helicopter squadron. I was what they called one of the "skid kids" because I was an avionics crew chief for the UH-1N Hueys (avionics crew chiefs were not common - I had to work with the mechanics on second shift for months until I completed my flight syllabus) and responsible for fixing the Cobras too.

So, there I was - sound asleep in the front seat of a Huey on the flight deck out in the middle of the Atlantic. I didn't have to fly that day, so I was what they called a flight deck troubleshooter. I had to be on the flight deck all day and check on the other Hueys that were flying that day when them came back to refuel, pick someone up, etc. I was in one of the two Hueys that didn't fly that day. We were in the middle of a replenishment operation and had fuel lines strung from our ship to another called the Spiegel Grove pumping them some gas. The two ships got too close together while the wakes of both ships created a venturi. The pictures below are a result of what happened. I was the closest to that elevator when we collided. I woke up when one of my buds reading a book in the back seat yelled, "It's gonna hit!". And it did - tore the shiat out of that elevator. In fact, it hit us a couple more times before they could steer out of the wake. That steel rolled up is 2 or 3 inches thick - peeled it open like a can opener. Fortunately, nobody got hurt. But I could never be that scared again. I was terrified.
</csb>

Some of the damage. Obviously, the pictures are very old.
img.fark.net
img.fark.net
img.fark.net
 
2017-06-19 07:03:27 PM  

RomeoEightJuliet: omegaic: This is going to be an interesting investigation. I wonder what the deal was the the MV doubling back on its course.

I'm very dubious of any report stating the Crystal double-backed and then hit the Fitzgerald.  It's possible, sure.  But looking at the track, I think the most logical explanation is the collision happened before they turned around.

[img.fark.net image 650x390]

I would speculate the collision happened at point A.  One report had both vessels heading ENE, so that slight jog to the north prior to point A would explain the damage to Crystal's port side, and Fitzgerald's starboard.

From A to B would be where Crystal assessed what happened and conducted muster, damage control, etc.

At point B they returned to course consistent with their base course to keep in known water and point C is where they turned around to investigate the other ship and provide any assistance, if needed.

Point D, a return to Point A, is where they stopped at the initial collision point to investigate the Fitzgerald.  And D through E is their departure from the scene, en route safe harbor.

But that track from point B to D is precisely what I would expect a lumbering vessel to do if they just had a collision and returned to the scene to investigate and/or assist.

Anyway, that's just my guess on it using scant information.  We'll know soon enough what happened, right down to the minute.


My thinking as well. It seems like too much of a coincidence that at Point D the got back onto the original course that they'd been on at Point A.
 
2017-06-19 07:05:42 PM  
Berths that were flooded were definitely under the waterline.  If you look, especially at the daytime pics and even when it made it safely to harbor, you can see how the Fitzgerald is listing and they have all those hoses dangling over the side spraying seawater to just keep her from sinking.  The damage up top is bad of course, but it didn't cause deaths by drowning.
 
2017-06-19 07:05:52 PM  

NotThatGuyAgain: I cannot fathom ho much damage is below the waterline since the container ship has one of these bows:

[img.fark.net image 632x452]


img.fark.net
 
2017-06-19 07:08:36 PM  

gregscott: ISIS is active in the Philippines. This makes me wonder if the freighter's bridge was crewed by Jihadists.


Well, that's one pants-wetting alarmist the terrorists have terrorized.
 
2017-06-19 07:12:19 PM  

siyuntz: gregscott: ISIS is active in the Philippines. This makes me wonder if the freighter's bridge was crewed by Jihadists.

If that were the case, though, wouldn't they have taken credit for it already...


ISIS isn't active in the Philippines.  What you have is the same Islamic terrorist groups, that have always been active in the area, using the ISIS flag in their propaganda.  ISIS did send people to the Philippines, as did Bin Laden, but they never got along with the local Filipino Muslims, because the Filipino Muslims terrorist operate by having their women run their legitimate front businesses, while they focus on drug trafficking and kidnapping Christian girls to sell as sex slaves, I mean convert to good Muslim wives, for rich Arab kids.
 
2017-06-19 07:12:47 PM  
My slightly less than crackpot theory is that whomever was at the helm of the ACX Crystal at the time is never even setting foot on a boat again, and I'd imagine it wasn't the actual captain. It looks to me from all this stuff that he did something stupid, possibly while in some state of not right, hit, and only when confronted with the fact that he was found out did they turn around and go back.
 
2017-06-19 07:13:44 PM  

maddog2030: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4612334/USS-Fitzgerald-involv​e​d-collision-merchant-vessel.html?utm_source=fark&utm_medium=website&ut​m_content=link&ICID=ref_fark

Looks like a bunch of strange turns, scroll through the pix to the vessel track plot.


Oh wow! Yeah, that's extremely suspicious.

One major question is how the USS Fitzgerald failed to see(radar) or hear(sonar) the transport.
Hell, they should've been able to read their farkin emails....
 
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