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(National Review)   "The Philando Castile verdict was a miscarriage of justice," claims the BLM activists at, uuhh   ( nationalreview.com) divider line
    More: Obvious, Castile, Yanez, Manslaughter, Rights, Civil and political rights, Law, Firearm, Reach  
•       •       •

3857 clicks; posted to Politics » on 19 Jun 2017 at 1:12 AM (17 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2017-06-18 08:16:43 PM  
at..,,. a Planned Parenthood event?
 
2017-06-18 08:54:57 PM  
The article is from National Review, the comments are from Facebook, and they're all for the most part sane, smart, and non-hypocritical? I must be taking crazy pills.

I have to say that in the verdict thread from the other day, someone I had Farkied in deep red as a gun nut condemned the verdict unequivocally. I give that Farker, National Review, the NRO Facebook commentators, and the Facebook likers a lot of credit where it's due. The verdict was unjust, and those that should be complaining the loudest are those most concerned with gun rights. The fact that they're not keeping silent or being hypocrites is quite heartening to me.
 
2017-06-18 09:19:58 PM  
At that point, Castile is operating under two commands.

img.fark.net

Well, which is it, young feller? You want I should freeze or get down on the ground? Mean to say, if'n I freeze, I can't rightly drop. And if'n I drop, I'm a-gonna be in motion. You see...
 
2017-06-18 09:48:09 PM  

thatguyoverthere70: The article is from National Review, the comments are from Facebook, and they're all for the most part sane, smart, and non-hypocritical? I must be taking crazy pills.

I have to say that in the verdict thread from the other day, someone I had Farkied in deep red as a gun nut condemned the verdict unequivocally. I give that Farker, National Review, the NRO Facebook commentators, and the Facebook likers a lot of credit where it's due. The verdict was unjust, and those that should be complaining the loudest are those most concerned with gun rights. The fact that they're not keeping silent or being hypocrites is quite heartening to me.


I know a few people who I thought would defend the cop in this case, and none have.
 
2017-06-18 11:16:23 PM  

thatguyoverthere70: The article is from National Review, the comments are from Facebook, and they're all for the most part sane, smart, and non-hypocritical? I must be taking crazy pills.


Nah, they just decided that '2nd Amendment' was more important than 'black'.

If Castile didn't have a gun, if the officer had just shot him because he felt threatened by ... I don't know, sunshine and puppies ... these same people would say the officer was just trying to go home to his wife and kids while Castile was already with his girlfriend and kid, so the same thing wouldn't have applied to him.
 
2017-06-19 01:16:17 AM  
This was murder plain and simple.  How the jury couldn't that is beyond me.
 
2017-06-19 01:18:42 AM  

orangehat: This was murder plain and simple.  How the jury couldn't that is beyond me.


Oops, missed a word.
 
2017-06-19 01:23:36 AM  
Surprising from NRO. Are they cuckservatives again?
 
2017-06-19 01:25:25 AM  
I'd like to see the family sue the city for wrongful death. If it's good enough for OJ...
 
2017-06-19 01:26:36 AM  

Natalie Portmanteau: I'd like to see the family sue the city for wrongful death. If it's good enough for OJ...


Should be very winnable. Lower standards of proof in civil cases.
 
2017-06-19 01:27:39 AM  

cheezesub: Surprising from NRO. Are they cuckservatives again?


Trump has ruptured the infallibility of the Republican Party. Once you break ranks on one thing it's easier to think for yourself on another issue.

But yeah this pretty clearly shows they love the 2nd amendment more than they are racist.

I'd advocate for all BLM demonstrators to carry guns, to make a point, but that would be suicide for many.
 
2017-06-19 01:29:09 AM  

orangehat: This was murder plain and simple.  How the jury couldn't that is beyond me.


People smart enough to see through cop's bullshiat either don't show up for jury duty or get struck before they ever have a chance to sit.
 
2017-06-19 01:35:25 AM  

archnem: orangehat: This was murder plain and simple.  How the jury couldn't that is beyond me.

People smart enough to see through cop's bullshiat either don't show up for jury duty or get struck before they ever have a chance to sit.


 That makes a lot of sense.
 
2017-06-19 01:39:13 AM  
This guy had an opinion on another travesty of justice.

I won't give the NRO clicks... but, this guy is right twice. And the NRA needs to stop being little biatches and ACTUALLY DEFEND THE SECOND AMENDMENT. But, like their fanboys (and conservative fanboys in general), they are hypocrites.
 
2017-06-19 01:40:49 AM  

orangehat: This was murder plain and simple.  How the jury couldn't that is beyond me.


Simple really: bigotry. Anyone who thinks the Deep South is full of bigots should go to the suburbs of the Midwest: they'll be in for an education
 
2017-06-19 01:41:30 AM  

puffy999: This guy had an opinion on another travesty of justice.

I won't give the NRO clicks... but, this guy is right twice. And the NRA needs to stop being little biatches and ACTUALLY DEFEND THE SECOND AMENDMENT. But, like their fanboys (and conservative fanboys in general), they are hypocrites.


I accidentally clicked the link but closed the new window...i was trying to avoid giving them clicks.
 
2017-06-19 01:42:35 AM  
Well of course NRO would take those stance. It wasn't as if the cop was white...
 
2017-06-19 01:44:44 AM  

cmb53208: orangehat: This was murder plain and simple.  How the jury couldn't that is beyond me.

Simple really: bigotry. Anyone who thinks the Deep South is full of bigots should go to the suburbs of the Midwest: they'll be in for an education


I grew up in the suburbs of the Midwest.  I grew up probably less than 15 miles of where Castile grew up, we have a lot in common.  The difference is that when I got pulled over around the time this all went down they didn't ask if I had a gun, I didn't have a gun, and I'm white so the cop told me that I should go down to the courthouse and get my registration updated.
 
2017-06-19 01:45:32 AM  

cheezesub: Natalie Portmanteau: I'd like to see the family sue the city for wrongful death. If it's good enough for OJ...

Should be very winnable. Lower standards of proof in civil cases.


Plus from what I can find, Minnesota doesn't have a "civil shield" statute that immunizes someone from civil suits when a killing is found to be justified.  Although, even if the state did have such a statute, I'm not sure if it would shield the city/police department, or just the cop himself.
 
2017-06-19 01:49:47 AM  
I was shocked at the lack of the usual "play stupid games win stupid prizes" authoritarian posters.  All those countless threads when a cop kills a black person they would usually swarm in and spout off about obeying every order exactly or else you get an immediate and "deserved" death sentence.  Some of the less rabid ones would say to stop defending the "thugs" and instead save your outrage for cases like Rice, Gurley, and Castile because surely these egregious cases would be handled properly and the cops would face some sort of punishment or justice doled out by a judge and jury of their peers.

We all see how that works out by now.
 
2017-06-19 01:56:29 AM  

archnem: orangehat: This was murder plain and simple.  How the jury couldn't that is beyond me.

People smart enough to see through cop's bullshiat either don't show up for jury duty or get struck before they ever have a chance to sit.


I had a lawyer friend who cut his chops working for a prosecutors office straight out of law school. Concerning jury selection, he was told the ideal juror is:
White
Lower middle class
High School education--at most
Retired
Scared
Prone to watching "Law and Order" marathons
 
2017-06-19 01:56:53 AM  

Natalie Portmanteau: I'd like to see the family sue the city for wrongful death. If it's good enough for OJ...


Yeah, it's one thing to have your officers' backs, it's another to hire a gang of actual criminals and run interference for them to cover up blatant murders caught unambiguously on tape.

I'd take a very careful look at who the prosecutor was, who he had regular contact with, the associations of the judge, and start cuing up the prosecutorial misconduct and RICO conspiracy charges, if I were responsible for the people that are supposed to be watching this... and given how shiat's been going I should have a turn as FBI director in, what, a week or two.  I think I'm on the list after Ted Nugent and "that guy from the Bourne movies".
 
2017-06-19 02:05:59 AM  

monkeydude5656: I was shocked at the lack of the usual "play stupid games win stupid prizes" authoritarian posters.  All those countless threads when a cop kills a black person they would usually swarm in and spout off about obeying every order exactly or else you get an immediate and "deserved" death sentence.  Some of the less rabid ones would say to stop defending the "thugs" and instead save your outrage for cases like Rice, Gurley, and Castile because surely these egregious cases would be handled properly and the cops would face some sort of punishment or justice doled out by a judge and jury of their peers.

We all see how that works out by now.


It's a LOT harder for them to find purchase with that when 1) the video shows him LITERALLY following the exact correct protocols. To the LETTER. Unequivocally. And 2) the protocols happen to line up with safe gun ownership/2nd Amendment problems, so saying he had it coming begs the question of how many of THEM might ALSO find themselves having it coming?
 
TWX
2017-06-19 02:13:53 AM  

cmb53208: orangehat: This was murder plain and simple.  How the jury couldn't that is beyond me.

Simple really: bigotry. Anyone who thinks the Deep South is full of bigots should go to the suburbs of the Midwest: they'll be in for an education


Everywhere is full of bigots. A lot of people that don't look bigoted are, but they know that it's not accepted where they are so they don't display it. Some even try to resist it to varying degrees of success, only for it to come-out in times of strong emotion.

I have an idea. How about the default position when anyone kills anyone else is to investigate it as a crime, and require the burden of proving that it was justified on that person? Doesn't matter if the person is a cop, or is acting in self-defense. How about we investigate it as if it were any other killing?

I want police to be safe in their line of work, but at the same time I don't think it's right for peaceful members of the public to be killed because a cop can't handle a situation that carries potential risk.
 
2017-06-19 02:33:18 AM  

davidphogan: thatguyoverthere70: The article is from National Review, the comments are from Facebook, and they're all for the most part sane, smart, and non-hypocritical? I must be taking crazy pills.

I have to say that in the verdict thread from the other day, someone I had Farkied in deep red as a gun nut condemned the verdict unequivocally. I give that Farker, National Review, the NRO Facebook commentators, and the Facebook likers a lot of credit where it's due. The verdict was unjust, and those that should be complaining the loudest are those most concerned with gun rights. The fact that they're not keeping silent or being hypocrites is quite heartening to me.

I know a few people who I thought would defend the cop in this case, and none have.

From what I understand, the verdict may have been a miscarriage of justice, but it was also the only correct verdict the jury could give given the law of the state. Juries have to rule based on the law. They cannot change the law. And yes, I know about Jury Nullification. It doesn't apply here.

Jury Nullification only works the other way: if a jury concludes that a law is unjust, they can acquit someone of a crime that the defendant did commit and is even proven to have committed, but which the jury feels should not be a crime (such as if eating pizza slices from the edge first were ruled a felony by a state legislature, a jury could nullify the effect of that law in that particular case. More realistically, jury nullification could be used to acquit someone convicted of cannabis simple possession with no intent to distribute if that were criminalized (and especially if felony) in the jurisdiction.

Juries cannot do the opposite, though. They cannot find the defendant guilty if the law says that whatever the defendant did is not a crime, even if they feel that that law (or the absence thereof) is unjust, even grossly so. The law says that if the officer fears for his life, he is justified in shooting to kill. That law itself may need to be changed, but the jury cannot do so, not even as applicable to that particular case. That would be worse than Ex Post Facto.
 
2017-06-19 02:35:30 AM  

cmb53208: orangehat: This was murder plain and simple.  How the jury couldn't that is beyond me.

Simple really: bigotry. Anyone who thinks the Deep South is full of bigots should go to the suburbs of the Midwest: they'll be in for an education


Been there, learned that. My Nissan Sentra was rear ended by a Dodge Ram 1500, when I had stopped at a red light. The guy had come so fast, my car cleared the intersection. There was no rear to speak of. The guy's "explanation" was that he thought the light would turn by the time he reached the light, and I was too slow to start moving.

The cop did not even create an FIR.I was dazed and confused in the aftermath of the incident, and did not ask for it. My insurance basically said they had to settle it as equally at fault, because there was no FIR.

This was just outside Columbus OH.
 
2017-06-19 02:36:32 AM  

kmramki: cmb53208: orangehat: This was murder plain and simple.  How the jury couldn't that is beyond me.

Simple really: bigotry. Anyone who thinks the Deep South is full of bigots should go to the suburbs of the Midwest: they'll be in for an education

Been there, learned that. My Nissan Sentra was rear ended by a Dodge Ram 1500, when I had stopped at a red light. The guy had come so fast, my car cleared the intersection. There was no rear to speak of. The guy's "explanation" was that he thought the light would turn by the time he reached the light, and I was too slow to start moving.

The cop did not even create an FIR.I was dazed and confused in the aftermath of the incident, and did not ask for it. My insurance basically said they had to settle it as equally at fault, because there was no FIR.

This was just outside Columbus OH.


Needless to say, I am brown, and the other guy was White.
 
2017-06-19 02:37:42 AM  

TWX: A lot of people that don't look bigoted are


Um... I have bad news for you about your highly advanced system for evaluating people's intellect, character, and nature based solely on their outer appearance, man.  Or, rather, about what the fact that you expressed this as if it were surprising says about you.

I know it's "not what you intended to say", but it's a pretty good summary of why this shiat is still so widespread that you did it without even thinking about it (that is, assumed that the 'default state' is that people you don't like should all look the same and that it being otherwise is some sort of subversion of that normality instead of, y'know, farking obvious).
 
2017-06-19 02:40:53 AM  
I haven't followed this case, since I figured I have enough things to get pissed off about already.  But I see this tonight;
img.fark.net
 
2017-06-19 02:47:18 AM  

Alphax: I haven't followed this case, since I figured I have enough things to get pissed off about already.  But I see this tonight;
[img.fark.net image 480x853]


 Basically some pussy got scared and killed someone to alleviate his fear.
 
2017-06-19 03:51:25 AM  
Does this mean we're post peak stigginit and we will see the return of the rational right?  Please can this be a thing?
 
2017-06-19 04:16:28 AM  
"the most extreme deprivation of civil rights and civil liberties"

It's not about voting, or the ability to register to vote. It's not about being more likely to be arrested, or tried, or convicted, or receive a longer sentence, for a particular offense, because you're black.

It's about the second amendment, the only part of the constitution NRO recognizes, apart from dark campaign money and Baba Yaga and Yiannopolous talking at Berkeley.

If he had been unarmed, crickets.
 
2017-06-19 06:10:55 AM  

thatguyoverthere70: The article is from National Review, the comments are from Facebook, and they're all for the most part sane, smart, and non-hypocritical? I must be taking crazy pills.

I have to say that in the verdict thread from the other day, someone I had Farkied in deep red as a gun nut condemned the verdict unequivocally. I give that Farker, National Review, the NRO Facebook commentators, and the Facebook likers a lot of credit where it's due. The verdict was unjust, and those that should be complaining the loudest are those most concerned with gun rights. The fact that they're not keeping silent or being hypocrites is quite heartening to me.


Yeah, but also remember the number of those "gun nuts" who were perfectly fine with the verdict.  Same with the ones in the "why hasn't the NRA said anything" threads.
 
2017-06-19 06:28:32 AM  

Zevon's Evil Twin: archnem: orangehat: This was murder plain and simple.  How the jury couldn't that is beyond me.

People smart enough to see through cop's bullshiat either don't show up for jury duty or get struck before they ever have a chance to sit.

I had a lawyer friend who cut his chops working for a prosecutors office straight out of law school. Concerning jury selection, he was told the ideal juror is:
White
Lower middle class
High School education--at most
Retired
Scared
Prone to watching "Law and Order" marathons


AKA "the Fox News demographic."
 
2017-06-19 06:37:54 AM  
FTFA: Yes, the evidence indicates that Yanez was afraid for his life. He thought he might have been dealing with a robber (a fact he apparently didn't tell Castile), and he testified that he smelled marijuana.

He must have been concerned about how this shooting looked, to have to invoke the entire Lazy Cop Holy Trinity: Fear for his life, mistaken identity AND he "thought he smelled marijuana."
 
2017-06-19 06:44:08 AM  
The 2nd Amendment only applies to white people.  Didn't you get the memo?
 
2017-06-19 06:49:27 AM  
I've been watching the new season of Orange is the New Black, and they showed a scene where prison guards handcuff someone to the shower and boil them to death, like what happened in Florida in real life.

I looked up the facts about the case, and how the guards weren't convictes of anything.  When that kind of thing happens it really feels like there is no hope.  If you are the right person and they are the wrong person you can legally boil them alive in this country.
 
2017-06-19 06:50:07 AM  

thatguyoverthere70: The article is from National Review, the comments are from Facebook, and they're all for the most part sane, smart, and non-hypocritical? I must be taking crazy pills.

I have to say that in the verdict thread from the other day, someone I had Farkied in deep red as a gun nut condemned the verdict unequivocally. I give that Farker, National Review, the NRO Facebook commentators, and the Facebook likers a lot of credit where it's due. The verdict was unjust, and those that should be complaining the loudest are those most concerned with gun rights. The fact that they're not keeping silent or being hypocrites is quite heartening to me.


People who support the right are finally realizing that it can be revoked at gunpoint with no consequences from the offending government agent. Whether tbey believe it because of a true belief that it applies to everyone, or because of re-stoked antigovernment leanings, we'll have to see over the long term.

I hope, though, that it's the former.
 
2017-06-19 06:51:16 AM  
You know, perhaps I'm sheltered, but I'm 46, and I cannot remember a time in my life where I actually feared for my life.
 
2017-06-19 07:07:24 AM  

Alphax: You know, perhaps I'm sheltered, but I'm 46, and I cannot remember a time in my life where I actually feared for my life.


I can think of several. Most were while riding motorcycles, which is why I no longer enjoy riding. Once was while scuba diving when I had a regulator freeze up (it is supposed to fail open, but didn't).

Ironically, never in the Air Force nor when I worked as a firefighter did I feel afraid for my life.
 
2017-06-19 07:19:16 AM  

bk3k: The 2nd Amendment only applies to white people.  Didn't you get the memo?


Yeah - but that's snark.
In reality, the Right is facing a crisis of conscience.
For many years now, they have been maintaining that they believe in a pure and fundamental interpretation of the Second Amendment, and that everyone should have guns.
Now, it is being brought home to them that "everyone" includes brown folks  and leftists and queer people and immigrants and all sorts of folks that aren't normally featured in their Hot Lead Justice fantasies, except as targets.
It's a dilemma.
 
2017-06-19 07:21:17 AM  

Alphax: I haven't followed this case, since I figured I have enough things to get pissed off about already.  But I see this tonight;
[img.fark.net image 480x853]


I'm not saying the guy deserved to be shot, but is this accurate? According to the timeline, Castile did not tell the cop he was packing at first. Castile had already given the cop his proof of insurance before saying he was carrying. Castile then went for something, the cop told him to stop, Castile didn't, and then a modern day OK corral happened. Had Castile told him at once, maybe the cop would have waited for him to reach for his license, permit, proof of insurance, etc. But the cop already had it before being told Castile had a gun. What was Castile reaching for?

According to the timeline, it didn't happen as this image shows. Moreover, there was dashcam video the public hasn't seen. Every time this crap happens, we end up with, "Hands up! Don't shoot!" when in fact, the "hands up, don't shoot" never happened further inflaming the situation. The image I am responding to is not accurate - that's not the sequence of events.

Again, I'm not saying Castile deserved to get shot and lay there dying so his wife could get a great Facebook Live video instead of helping him. But this sequence did not happen this way. We have the benefit of 20/20 hindsight where the cop didn't, so now the facts are changed to make it worse for  the cop. If it was cold-blooded murder, the facts should stand on their own.
 
2017-06-19 07:21:58 AM  
So, just so we are on the same page:

The farking National Review, the last bastion of genuine conservative commentary slowly being drowned by the white nationalist Breitbart, says the Philando Castile verdict is a travesty of justice.

Which would make the right wingers spiking the football at the news of officer Yanez's acquittal either unconstitutional fascists,and/or racists who wish to kill minorities.

At this point, both civil libertarians and black lives matter share a common enemy: "Blue Lives Matter" Police unions that will do any and everything to provide financial and political cover for officers that abuse their responsibilities to the public, while at the same time, stonewalling any and all efforts at transparency, accountability, and neighborhood policing.
 
2017-06-19 07:29:41 AM  

Alphax: You know, perhaps I'm sheltered, but I'm 46, and I cannot remember a time in my life where I actually feared for my life.


I nearly drowned yesterday, didn't make me feel like shooting anybody.
 
2017-06-19 07:35:34 AM  

monkeydude5656: I was shocked at the lack of the usual "play stupid games win stupid prizes" authoritarian posters.  All those countless threads when a cop kills a black person they would usually swarm in and spout off about obeying every order exactly or else you get an immediate and "deserved" death sentence.  Some of the less rabid ones would say to stop defending the "thugs" and instead save your outrage for cases like Rice, Gurley, and Castile because surely these egregious cases would be handled properly and the cops would face some sort of punishment or justice doled out by a judge and jury of their peers.

We all see how that works out by now.


Perhaps people are more complex than the convenient little boxes you've sorted them into.
 
2017-06-19 07:39:04 AM  

jso2897: bk3k: The 2nd Amendment only applies to white people.  Didn't you get the memo?

Yeah - but that's snark.
In reality, the Right is facing a crisis of conscience.
For many years now, they have been maintaining that they believe in a pure and fundamental interpretation of the Second Amendment, and that everyone should have guns.
Now, it is being brought home to them that "everyone" includes brown folks  and leftists and queer people and immigrants and all sorts of folks that aren't normally featured in their Hot Lead Justice fantasies, except as targets.
It's a dilemma.


It's not a dilemma for them. It's already being spun.

Fox News was on this morning in the gym, and they were framing the Left as "Violent Extremists" that needs to be stopped. That Kathy Griffith/Shakespeare Play/MSM has resulted in the Antifa violent protests and the Scalise shooting.

They brought up the republicans who stormed the shakespeare in the park and other acts of violence from the right, and that was framed as a natural defense reaction now to the violent left. It should be expected. This is where this is going.
 
2017-06-19 07:41:12 AM  

orangehat: cmb53208: orangehat: This was murder plain and simple.  How the jury couldn't that is beyond me.

Simple really: bigotry. Anyone who thinks the Deep South is full of bigots should go to the suburbs of the Midwest: they'll be in for an education

I grew up in the suburbs of the Midwest.  I grew up probably less than 15 miles of where Castile grew up, we have a lot in common.  The difference is that when I got pulled over around the time this all went down they didn't ask if I had a gun, I didn't have a gun, and I'm white so the cop told me that I should go down to the courthouse and get my registration updated.


Michigander here. You are both correct.
 
2017-06-19 07:43:32 AM  

gulogulo: jso2897: bk3k: The 2nd Amendment only applies to white people.  Didn't you get the memo?

Yeah - but that's snark.
In reality, the Right is facing a crisis of conscience.
For many years now, they have been maintaining that they believe in a pure and fundamental interpretation of the Second Amendment, and that everyone should have guns.
Now, it is being brought home to them that "everyone" includes brown folks  and leftists and queer people and immigrants and all sorts of folks that aren't normally featured in their Hot Lead Justice fantasies, except as targets.
It's a dilemma.

It's not a dilemma for them. It's already being spun.

Fox News was on this morning in the gym, and they were framing the Left as "Violent Extremists" that needs to be stopped. That Kathy Griffith/Shakespeare Play/MSM has resulted in the Antifa violent protests and the Scalise shooting.

They brought up the republicans who stormed the shakespeare in the park and other acts of violence from the right, and that was framed as a natural defense reaction now to the violent left. It should be expected. This is where this is going.


Sure - but that's not going to work.
 
2017-06-19 07:43:47 AM  

Farkomatic: ..:lay there dying so his wife could get a great Facebook Live video instead of helping him.


What the fark are you going on about? He was shot at close range 6 or 7 times.   What in the hell was she going to do?
 
2017-06-19 07:44:06 AM  

Farkomatic: I'm not saying Castile deserved to get shot and lay there dying so his wife could get a great Facebook Live video instead of helping him.


No, but what you have said is very enlightening.
 
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