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(NJ.com)   Let's all remember Trump is innocent until proven guilty, says a columnist who conveniently forgets Trump's campaign chant of 'Lock her up'   ( nj.com) divider line
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1348 clicks; posted to Politics » on 18 Jun 2017 at 6:54 AM (17 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2017-06-18 02:49:00 AM  
There you go being all facty and reasonablelike!
 
2017-06-18 06:48:43 AM  

Circusdog320: There you go being all facty and reasonablelike!


Hardly. More like disingenuous and BSAB-like.

Trumpy begged the Russians to hack the democrats. The Russians hacked the democrats and leaked it. They also hacked the Republicans, but haven't leaked it. Yet.

Trumps at least sought active collusion with the Russians, in exchange for a promise to reduce the sanctions and possibly give Russia even more of Ukraine.

Most, if not all, of his top campaign aids and cabinet members are being investigated for Russian contacts. Either Donnie Two Scoops was blissfully unaware of all these activities, in which case he's an incompetent stooge who should be removed from office, or he was ordering the whole thing, in which case he's a treasonous traitor who should be removed from office and then go to jail, not passing go and not collecting another $200 million in foreign bribes from his hotels and resorts.

And at the very least, the Orange Bloviator fired the head of the FBI for investigating his campaign's Russian ties and then bragged about doing so on national TV.

Given all that, it's looking more a matter of when he's proven guilty, rather than if.

/But at least he didn't have a private e-mail server, right?
//Oh, he did? Never mind.
 
2017-06-18 06:56:57 AM  
The investigations were never about Trump, until he decided they had to be by obstructing the investigations into someone else.
 
2017-06-18 06:59:52 AM  
I prefer to style it "...innocent unless proven guilty...."

/pendant
// 8-) x 2
 
2017-06-18 07:02:26 AM  
Unlike any other kind of case, impeachment is tried in the court of public opinion before it will ever be tried by a legal body.
 
2017-06-18 07:12:21 AM  
The same people who told us a million bikers and a million truckers were heading to Washington to arrest the Obama Administration and the House & Senate and hold them in semi trailers for citizen trials until a new Congress was elected that met the biker/trucker approval -- for the Constitution.
 
2017-06-18 07:16:16 AM  

Gyrfalcon: The investigations were never about Trump, until he decided they had to be by obstructing the investigations into someone else.


That's the essence of narcissism. Of course it had to be about him. He even acknowledged how much he hated the attention Comey was getting.
 
2017-06-18 07:26:31 AM  
I love how the latest defense for Trump is, "he's not guilty. . . yet!"

This is a guy who fired a man who was investigating his administration's ties to Russia at the behest of a man who had to recuse himself from said investigation for lying about secret meetings with Russians, and then subsequently admitted he fired the man because of the investigation to the Russians themselves. shortly before giving them code word level classified information. And that's just the pinnacle of bulkshiat mountain.This man is less convincingly innocent than O.J. farking Simpson.
 
2017-06-18 07:30:18 AM  
Oh, come on, subby!

"LOCK HER UP!" was completely different because she had already been exonerated by then.
 
2017-06-18 07:31:46 AM  
I'm also tired of hearing there is a lot of smoke but no fire. Ok. But there is a glow. We can see the glow of the fire.
 
2017-06-18 07:33:37 AM  

shpritz: Oh, come on, subby!

"LOCK HER UP!" was completely different because she had already been exonerated by then.


Yes but I don't know if not guilty of treason due to incompetence is much of an exoneration but if it is then by equality under law trump is also not guilty.
 
2017-06-18 07:38:48 AM  

MattytheMouse: I love how the latest defense for Trump is, "he's not guilty. . . yet!"

This is a guy who fired a man who was investigating his administration's ties to Russia at the behest of a man who had to recuse himself from said investigation for lying about secret meetings with Russians, and then subsequently admitted he fired the man because of the investigation to the Russians themselves. shortly before giving them code word level classified information. And that's just the pinnacle of bulkshiat mountain.This man is less convincingly innocent than O.J. farking Simpson.


Put that way, it sounds like a sucky cold war novel.
 
2017-06-18 07:41:15 AM  

RJReves: MattytheMouse: I love how the latest defense for Trump is, "he's not guilty. . . yet!"

This is a guy who fired a man who was investigating his administration's ties to Russia at the behest of a man who had to recuse himself from said investigation for lying about secret meetings with Russians, and then subsequently admitted he fired the man because of the investigation to the Russians themselves. shortly before giving them code word level classified information. And that's just the pinnacle of bulkshiat mountain.This man is less convincingly innocent than O.J. farking Simpson.

Put that way, it sounds like a sucky cold war novel.


No hack author would ever write such a stupid character in such an idiotic plot. You can't make this shiat up.
 
2017-06-18 07:42:17 AM  
That's different.  democrats aren't people and are therefore born guilty.  Study it out.
 
2017-06-18 07:47:06 AM  
Trump was just using Lock Her room talk.
 
2017-06-18 07:54:20 AM  

Gyrfalcon: The investigations were never about Trump, until he decided they had to be by obstructing the investigations into someone else.


Well, Trump has to be the center of attention regardless of whether said attention is positive or negative.
 
2017-06-18 07:54:33 AM  
That only applies to the court of law. The court of public opinion isn't bound by that kinda thing.

Plus, Fat Donny's outright farking ADMITTED to things (giving codeword-level intel to Russian diplomats and firing Comey because of the Russia investigation, for example) that would have anyone else behind bars.
 
2017-06-18 07:55:03 AM  

MattytheMouse: RJReves: MattytheMouse: I love how the latest defense for Trump is, "he's not guilty. . . yet!"

This is a guy who fired a man who was investigating his administration's ties to Russia at the behest of a man who had to recuse himself from said investigation for lying about secret meetings with Russians, and then subsequently admitted he fired the man because of the investigation to the Russians themselves. shortly before giving them code word level classified information. And that's just the pinnacle of bulkshiat mountain.This man is less convincingly innocent than O.J. farking Simpson.

Put that way, it sounds like a sucky cold war novel.

No hack author would ever write such a stupid character in such an idiotic plot. You can't make this shiat up.


Only because hack writers are no good at farce.  It would take a phenomenal writer like a Joseph Heller to write this plot. Hell, I think Pratchett's had similar threads in his books (the villain in Going Postal comes to mind).
 
2017-06-18 07:58:20 AM  

MattytheMouse: RJReves: MattytheMouse: I love how the latest defense for Trump is, "he's not guilty. . . yet!"

This is a guy who fired a man who was investigating his administration's ties to Russia at the behest of a man who had to recuse himself from said investigation for lying about secret meetings with Russians, and then subsequently admitted he fired the man because of the investigation to the Russians themselves. shortly before giving them code word level classified information. And that's just the pinnacle of bulkshiat mountain.This man is less convincingly innocent than O.J. farking Simpson.

Put that way, it sounds like a sucky cold war novel.

No hack author would ever write such a stupid character in such an idiotic plot. You can't make this shiat up.


Is this what we get since Tom Clancy died?  Because no author could come up with something so implausible that real life has to out do art by giving us the most unqualified person who ever wanted to be leader of the nation?
 
2017-06-18 08:03:29 AM  

GhostfacedFiddlah: MattytheMouse: RJReves: MattytheMouse: I love how the latest defense for Trump is, "he's not guilty. . . yet!"

This is a guy who fired a man who was investigating his administration's ties to Russia at the behest of a man who had to recuse himself from said investigation for lying about secret meetings with Russians, and then subsequently admitted he fired the man because of the investigation to the Russians themselves. shortly before giving them code word level classified information. And that's just the pinnacle of bulkshiat mountain.This man is less convincingly innocent than O.J. farking Simpson.

Put that way, it sounds like a sucky cold war novel.

No hack author would ever write such a stupid character in such an idiotic plot. You can't make this shiat up.

Only because hack writers are no good at farce.  It would take a phenomenal writer like a Joseph Heller to write this plot. Hell, I think Pratchett's had similar threads in his books (the villain in Going Postal comes to mind).


I don't know. . . If I'd read any of this in a book, I'd probably dismiss it all. I mean, surely a one-dimensional character such as Trump couldn't possibly exist, let alone get elected President! And don't get me started on the fact that the entire plot hinges on millions of people just ignorimg the most blisteringly obvious conspiracy just unfolding right before their eyes!

But you know, Trump has me questioning reality in a multitude of different ways. He truly is stranger than fiction.
 
2017-06-18 08:07:50 AM  

GhostfacedFiddlah: MattytheMouse: RJReves: MattytheMouse: I love how the latest defense for Trump is, "he's not guilty. . . yet!"

This is a guy who fired a man who was investigating his administration's ties to Russia at the behest of a man who had to recuse himself from said investigation for lying about secret meetings with Russians, and then subsequently admitted he fired the man because of the investigation to the Russians themselves. shortly before giving them code word level classified information. And that's just the pinnacle of bulkshiat mountain.This man is less convincingly innocent than O.J. farking Simpson.

Put that way, it sounds like a sucky cold war novel.

No hack author would ever write such a stupid character in such an idiotic plot. You can't make this shiat up.

Only because hack writers are no good at farce.  It would take a phenomenal writer like a Joseph Heller to write this plot. Hell, I think Pratchett's had similar threads in his books (the villain in Going Postal comes to mind).


Mr. Gilt, the head of a monopoly that was doing his best to maintain the status quo, does not become leader of Ankh-Morpork by colluding with leaders in Klatch to assassinate Vetinari.

No, this administration bears a more striking resemblance to Duck Soup
 
2017-06-18 08:09:53 AM  

harleyquinnical: GhostfacedFiddlah: MattytheMouse: RJReves: MattytheMouse: I love how the latest defense for Trump is, "he's not guilty. . . yet!"

This is a guy who fired a man who was investigating his administration's ties to Russia at the behest of a man who had to recuse himself from said investigation for lying about secret meetings with Russians, and then subsequently admitted he fired the man because of the investigation to the Russians themselves. shortly before giving them code word level classified information. And that's just the pinnacle of bulkshiat mountain.This man is less convincingly innocent than O.J. farking Simpson.

Put that way, it sounds like a sucky cold war novel.

No hack author would ever write such a stupid character in such an idiotic plot. You can't make this shiat up.

Only because hack writers are no good at farce.  It would take a phenomenal writer like a Joseph Heller to write this plot. Hell, I think Pratchett's had similar threads in his books (the villain in Going Postal comes to mind).

Mr. Gilt, the head of a monopoly that was doing his best to maintain the status quo, does not become leader of Ankh-Morpork by colluding with leaders in Klatch to assassinate Vetinari.

No, this administration bears a more striking resemblance to Duck Soup


How the leopard got in my pajamas I'll never know.
 
2017-06-18 08:15:08 AM  
Totally different. Hillary Clinton was placed on trial by the duly-elected delegates of the Republican National Convention, and was found GUILTY on multiple counts:

Chris Christie DESTROYS Hillary Clinton GUILTY OR NOT GUILTY? Republican National Convention Speech
Youtube HluRpyDpMqI
 
2017-06-18 08:20:45 AM  
I just watched a segment of Last Week Tonight from last fall, when it was all so much simpler. John Oliver compared Trump's and Clinton's scandals, and I miss those better days.

Scandals: Last Week Tonight with John Oliver (HBO)
Youtube h1Lfd1aB9YI
 
2017-06-18 08:23:09 AM  
Huh. Thought it was gonna be Mulshine.

That was rather vapid for Farmer. He usually write good stuff.
 
2017-06-18 08:37:25 AM  

Let's all remember Trump is innocent, until proven guilty | Farmer



Trump was and never will be a farmer. That's the guy in Green Acres with the Hungarian wife he's thinking of.

img.fark.net
 
2017-06-18 08:48:12 AM  
Should be noted that Trump didn't investigate Clinton.

He went straight to promising to throw her in prison and also promised to have her executed a few times.
 
2017-06-18 08:48:27 AM  

BitwiseShift: Let's all remember Trump is innocent, until proven guilty | Farmer

Trump was and never will be a farmer. That's the guy in Green Acres with the Hungarian wife he's thinking of.

[img.fark.net image 300x168]


I'm convinced that the reason Trump likes Eastern European courtesans as wives is because he had a Gabor sister fetish back in the fifties when he used to masterbate to them.
 
2017-06-18 09:07:24 AM  
We've had Trump kicking around and saying stupid crap since 1980.

I THINK the grace period for these sort of shenanigans has expired by now.
 
2017-06-18 09:23:05 AM  

wardog84: Yes but I don't know if not guilty of treason due to incompetence is much of an exoneration but if it is then by equality under law trump is also not guilty.


Let me provide you with the definition of exonerate:

to clear from accusation or blame

Saying someone is not guilty due to reasons (being mental illness or something) is not an exoneration.  It means that there were other circumstances that prevents that person from being held liable for their own actions.  Incompetence in doing a job (not mental incompetence) has never, to my knowledge, been an excuse for something illegal.
 
2017-06-18 09:45:41 AM  
And if I ever wind up on a jury hearing his case that will be important to me.

Until then, as this burning clown car rolls through town billowing a mile high plume of smoke, I'm going to go ahead and assume it really is on fire.
 
2017-06-18 09:59:54 AM  
There are many guilty standards in America.

Criminal Court - innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt

Civil - innocent until proven guilty by a preponderance of the evidence, and damages reduced by sharing with blame each party has (sometimes)

Public opinion - do they have a new movie, book, TV show coming out?

Congressional hearings - whose bull is being gored?
 
2017-06-18 10:01:15 AM  
Trump and his supporters conveniently forget TONS of things...
 
2017-06-18 10:12:52 AM  
Only legally.
 
2017-06-18 10:42:59 AM  
Regardless of the Russian stuff, Trump is guilty of much. To start off the bat, he's guilty of sexual assault by his own admission. He's also clearly guilty of fraud with his Trump University scam. Moving beyond actual crimes, he's also guilty of being a petty, malicious, incompetent fraud who can't ever tell the truth about anything.

And the GOP created this monster through its actions and rhetoric over the past few decades.

It's not time to "cool the rhetoric." It's time to keep calling out Trump and the GOP for what they are.
 
2017-06-18 10:44:23 AM  

Farking Clown Shoes: Trumpy begged the Russians to hack the democrats.


It's well past the point of asking whether this behavior is engineered to keep principled Democrats from voting in 2018. Being worse than the GOP is not an asset.
 
2017-06-18 10:44:53 AM  

irvingsmiley: I prefer to style it "...innocent unless proven guilty...."

/pendant
// 8-) x 2


"Pedant"

/pet peave
 
2017-06-18 10:54:43 AM  

rogue49: Trump and his supporters conveniently forget TONS of things...


Farmer is not a Donald supporter. He is a liberal.

/hence my confusion at his name on this tripe
 
2017-06-18 11:03:22 AM  

irvingsmiley: I prefer to style it "...innocent unless proven guilty...."

/pendant
// 8-) x 2


As long as you include the reminder that guilty and innocent are terms of legal art and bear scant relation to the issue of whether or not the person did the action they're accused of.

neenerist: Farking Clown Shoes: Trumpy begged the Russians to hack the democrats.

It's well past the point of asking whether this behavior is engineered to keep principled Democrats from voting in 2018. Being worse than the GOP is not an asset.


What are you talking about?
 
2017-06-18 11:10:52 AM  
Another tweet storm from Lyin' Donald! Doesn't he know we all see through his lies? What an incompetent blunderer! Sad!
 
2017-06-18 11:16:22 AM  
"Innocent until proven guilty" is for criminal trials. Impeachment is more like a firing. If there's reasonable cause to believe the President is compromised, he needs to go. It's not like the Senate can put him in prison or take his fortune away, and it's not like the courts are likely to do these things anyway, even if he is proven guilty.
 
2017-06-18 12:04:49 PM  
Wait, because Trump doesn't understand the concept of legal presumption of innocence, it doesn't apply to him, subby? I don't think anyone "conveniently forgot" shiat, except for you. Just because Trump is a walking compost pit, what he said doesn't exclude him from being innocent until proven guilty.
 
2017-06-18 12:16:15 PM  

Mikey1969: Wait, because Trump doesn't understand the concept of legal presumption of innocence, it doesn't apply to him, subby? I don't think anyone "conveniently forgot" shiat, except for you. Just because Trump is a walking compost pit, what he said doesn't exclude him from being innocent until proven guilty.


And if he goes to trial over any of this and the court doesn't agree, I'll be outraged. Because, big of a bag of shiat that Trump is, the rule of law is still more important than STIGINIT to him. If nothing else, Trump has really proven to me just how important it is to hold to your ideals no matter how egregious your opponent's behavior. The more he wants to tear them down, the more important it is that the ideals of the nation are upheld.

But I'm not a court and I don't have the authority or responsibility of one. Especially when I'm just commenting on the intartubes. So when I look at his face covered in cookie crumbs with his hand in the empty jar, I don't need to conduct a trial before I conclude that he's guilty as all farking hell of raiding it.
 
TWX
2017-06-18 12:33:10 PM  

Mr. Coffee Nerves: The same people who told us a million bikers and a million truckers were heading to Washington to arrest the Obama Administration and the House & Senate and hold them in semi trailers for citizen trials until a new Congress was elected that met the biker/trucker approval -- for the Constitution.


Instead they got four out-of-work bikers and a trucker with a 53' reefer trailer that needed it back by the end of the weekend or else his boss would notice when they booked it for a job and couldn't find it.
 
2017-06-18 01:25:48 PM  
He committed crimes on live TV. He admitted on twitter to obstruction of justice.

Innocent until proven guilty?
HE SAID HE WAS GUILTY AND EXPLAINED EXACTLY HOW AND WHY HE DID IT.
 
2017-06-18 01:40:11 PM  

420Gabriel: He committed crimes on live TV. He admitted on twitter to obstruction of justice.

Innocent until proven guilty?
HE SAID HE WAS GUILTY AND EXPLAINED EXACTLY HOW AND WHY HE DID IT.


Doesn't negate the fact that if it went to trial, the burden of proof is on the prosecution.
 
2017-06-18 02:01:20 PM  
Columbo just said, "Oh, and just one less thing."
 
2017-06-18 03:06:19 PM  
He's still innocent until proven guilty. Campaign chants have nothing to do with the criminal justice system. The false equivalency is mighty spicy though.
 
2017-06-18 03:30:46 PM  
Presumed innocent, subby.   And we know he's guilty as hell.
 
2017-06-18 03:33:39 PM  

Gyrfalcon: 420Gabriel: He committed crimes on live TV. He admitted on twitter to obstruction of justice.

Innocent until proven guilty?
HE SAID HE WAS GUILTY AND EXPLAINED EXACTLY HOW AND WHY HE DID IT.

Doesn't negate the fact that if it went to trial, the burden of proof is on the prosecution.


Admitting to a crime makes the burden of proof a really low bar to clear.
 
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