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(Guardian)   The Global Seed Vault, designed to preserve humanity's crops from global warming devastation, was flooded due to global warming   ( theguardian.com) divider line
    More: Ironic, Svalbard Global Seed Vault, vault, Norway, seed vault, Global Seed Vault, Longyearbyen, Svalbard, Arctic Ocean  
•       •       •

5146 clicks; posted to Main » on 19 May 2017 at 4:18 PM (26 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2017-05-19 03:11:52 PM  
Nice try, humanity. I sincerely applaud your effort.

Unfortunately, predictions of the future are usually based on the past. The past is a biased sample.

We base our policies on one hundred year events, five hundred year events, ten thousand year events. But our data and experience are brief and do not contain the full range of probabilities, let alone possibilities.

The Thames barriers are already obsolete. They were build from designs based on a few centuries of flooding, before climate change. They will fail, London will Flood, just like in the TV shows and movies, and a few 19th century SF novels.

The Dutch based their planning on the 1953 floods. These were 10,000 year floods. Even they may be insufficient over the next 1,000 years. But the Dutch were experienced in the whims of the sea, having reclaimed much of their country from it during the long interglacial period in which we are still technically living. They will be better prepared. They have floating houses, for example, and canals. They have survived several great floods, including intentional flooding during war time.

The future will always be surprising. This is the less of Nassim Nichola Taleb, famous author of the Incerto Trilogy including the best seller The Black Swan. It is a critique of how we think, plan and invest.

He has absorbed and ordered the thinking of the MIddle East for thousands of years (from which our Greek and Hebrew heritage are drawn), and has practiced as an investor and a philosopher. His health taught him what business and philosophy did not. he is a graduate summa cum laude of the School of Hard Knocks, being not only a stock market player, the scion of a formerly powerful and wealthy Lebanese family, and a thinker in a world of arrogant believers in their own ability in the chaotic world of investments and speculation.

When you define the worst that can happen as the worst that has happened in living memory, you are unprepared for great shocks and calamities, such as the election of Donald J. Trump, a flood such as has not been seen in human history, or climate change due to anthropogenic trashing of the current climate system and the the current biosphere and geological era.

Nice try, humanity, but learn to plan for longer periods. Assume that the worst that has happened is only the worst that could have happened in a short period of time.

Plan for 100,000 years, not 10,000; 10,000 not 100.

Recently the flooding in this area caused the Federal Government to shut down its massive offices in Gatineau so that emergency vehicles would not be hampered by daily commuters.

I do not recall this ever happening before. This is, after all, the largest government complex after the Pentagon in Washington, DC.

Except during that terrorist attack, when they locked down half of the city. Also, the ice storm or the electricity black out, which sent many people home, it has been rare for government employees to be sent home in such numbers.

One of the small towns in this area had a 100 year flood plan which was trashed by the flooding. I guess maybe they should get a start on a flood plan that takes into account climate change and other extreme weather events that were impossible until quite recently because human populations and development simply did not exist everytwhere they do today.
 
2017-05-19 03:58:19 PM  
You'd think they'd would have put some weather stripping on that thing.
 
2017-05-19 04:23:02 PM  

brantgoose: Nice try, humanity. I sincerely applaud your effort.


...God?
 
2017-05-19 04:23:33 PM  
we're boned
 
2017-05-19 04:24:44 PM  
Some poor schlub is going to be in big trouble for leaving that space heater running
 
2017-05-19 04:25:57 PM  
I bet they had university people design and build this thing, and and just architects that have only done university and art/museum buildings. (from the Frank Lloyd Wright school of leaking roofs)
-sigh
 
2017-05-19 04:26:04 PM  

geocacherphil: we're boned


We've always been boned.  No species lasts forever.

It would be nice though if our great grandkids had a nice planet to eek out an existence on though.
 
2017-05-19 04:26:47 PM  
No big deal, it will just sprout all the seeds and then the plants will all grow and make more seeds so it's all good!! YAY!
 
2017-05-19 04:27:28 PM  
img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2017-05-19 04:28:01 PM  
OMFG.

Reading the article, they didn't plan for the permafrost melting?

Really guys?

REALLY?!?!?!?!
 
2017-05-19 04:28:56 PM  

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: [img.fark.net image 850x510]


That picture is a wonderful play with perspective.  Makes it seem like the ocean is really freaking close.
 
2017-05-19 04:29:09 PM  
Fake news tag drowned?
 
2017-05-19 04:29:44 PM  
Good thing Home Depot still has lots of seeds.
 
2017-05-19 04:30:32 PM  
But the breach has questioned the ability of the vault to survive as a lifeline for humanity if catastrophe strikes. "It was supposed to [operate] without the help of humans, but now we are watching the seed vault 24 hours a day," Aschim said. "We must see what we can do to minimise all the risks and make sure the seed bank can take care of itself."

Ah, there is your problem. To echo Mr. Philosophy above, but with a little digression, over the last 10,000 years of human history the ONLY thing we have that stands the tests of time are huge piles of rocks. Everything humanity makes crumbles to dust because we use materials that are easy to work with. It's the shiatty crappy junk work stuff we should have used. Rocks are awesome but a beeotch to work.

It's too bad the seeds need to be kept cold. Water is the devil and the saint of life. Maybe next time, if ever, just nut up and carve out a mountain. Permafrost is an unfortunate name, because it isn't.
 
2017-05-19 04:33:21 PM  
img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2017-05-19 04:33:31 PM  

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: [img.fark.net image 850x510]


It looks like the thing was built just above sea level.  Did the people who built and designed this thing not buy into the whole "global warming" thing?

I have to wonder if this was intentional.  Now it will have to be rebuilt or moved elsewhere... more grant money, donations, etc...  to upgrade and continue this project.
 
2017-05-19 04:35:11 PM  
I'm so proud to be a human.
 
2017-05-19 04:35:43 PM  
FAKE NEWS™
 
2017-05-19 04:39:24 PM  
img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2017-05-19 04:39:55 PM  
FTA: ""A lot of water went into the start of the tunnel and then it froze to ice, so it was like a glacier when you went in," she told the Guardian. Fortunately, the meltwater did not reach the vault itself,"

So it worked.
 
2017-05-19 04:42:49 PM  
the ability of the rock vault to provide failsafe protection against all disasters is now threatened by climate change

So apparently not "all disasters".
 
2017-05-19 04:44:19 PM  
Aww man, ya got to be shiatting me.  I actually visited it on Svalbard and it was truly memorable and an out there experience.
 
2017-05-19 04:44:51 PM  

Tom-Servo: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: [img.fark.net image 850x510]

It looks like the thing was built just above sea level.  Did the people who built and designed this thing not buy into the whole "global warming" thing?

I have to wonder if this was intentional.  Now it will have to be rebuilt or moved elsewhere... more grant money, donations, etc...  to upgrade and continue this project.


It's up the mountain side a bit. 130m up the hill to be exact.
 
2017-05-19 04:46:13 PM  

Tom-Servo: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: [img.fark.net image 850x510]

It looks like the thing was built just above sea level.  Did the people who built and designed this thing not buy into the whole "global warming" thing?

I have to wonder if this was intentional.  Now it will have to be rebuilt or moved elsewhere... more grant money, donations, etc...  to upgrade and continue this project.


This seems like more of a Cold War-era project that just happened to finally get funded in the 2000s, designed to survive nuclear war and nuclear winter without really being updated for newer concerns. Of course it's also a repository of disappearing species that we're extirpating daily, even if we don't manage to violently purge ourselves.

I'm not really sure how a random building no one left alive knows about is supposed to do any good after the end, if it could be easily flooded in the first melt. Whoops, all our cool treasures were destroyed the same time they were uncovered. Sorry about that!
 
2017-05-19 04:47:01 PM  

mrlewish: I bet they had university people design and build this thing, and and just architects that have only done university and art/museum buildings. (from the Frank Lloyd Wright school of leaking roofs)
-sigh


There are tons of those structures in Connecticut I've had the opportunity to work on. I refer to them as Frank Lloyd Wrong designs
 
2017-05-19 04:47:20 PM  

meat0918: OMFG.

Reading the article, they didn't plan for the permafrost melting?

Really guys?

REALLY?!?!?!?!


They should have put it in the Antarctic, there's a whole bunch of land there.
 
2017-05-19 04:47:44 PM  
What do you call Ivanka Trump when she's travelling outside the US?  A Global Seed Vault.

Get the lights
 
2017-05-19 04:48:34 PM  
I don't really see the point of planning for post-Armageddon. Most people would be screwed anyway. Wouldn't that money be better spen making the world a better place now and to combat getting to that point?
 
2017-05-19 04:49:45 PM  
This reminds me of the efforts being made to mark off radioactive waste areas that will still be dangerous to thousands of years. How do we make something last long enough? Also what do we use to signal danger to a civilization that will only know us from the chunks of debris we leave behind?
 
2017-05-19 04:52:09 PM  

Corvus: I don't really see the point of planning for post-Armageddon. Most people would be screwed anyway. Wouldn't that money be better spen making the world a better place now and to combat getting to that point?


The Lizard People will appreciate the pretty flowers, so there's that.
 
2017-05-19 04:52:12 PM  
It must be summertime .
 
2017-05-19 04:53:36 PM  
As opppsed to a Local Seed Vault, which is usually some guy's gym sock.
 
2017-05-19 04:55:00 PM  
The vault managers are now taking precautions, including major work to waterproof the 100m-long tunnel into the mountain and digging trenches into the mountainside to channel meltwater and rain away. They have also removed electrical equipment from the tunnel that produced some heat and installed pumps in the vault itself in case of a future flood.

With such a valuable seed vault, I would have thought that was a given during it's construction. We can't rely on serious cold spots to remain cold for eternity, even various Earth Scientists of every study have noted that the poles have changed some time in history.

I once read where an ice cube, placed inside the empty shuttle fuel tank (once it is reduced to an ambient temperature to below freezing) can remain frozen for a couple of hundred years. That's how good the insulation is.

Our old, major nuclear military shelters took water into their construction considerations, as well as the movement of the earth -- like nuclear earthquakes -- so everything was placed on huge springs, the massive doors were airtight, which meant water tight, the facility sealed to prevent any water leakage, and just in case, there were major pumps installed to dispose of any water that might get in. Plus the air handlers had dehumidification properties to keep excess moisture out.

With this knowledge, such preventatives should have been incorporated into the design of the facility. After all, history has shown us that in deep mine tunnels, there is a battle against leakage, and even in subways. Our technology today has produced easily applied water proofing coatings, normally used in home basements and the deep basements of sky scrapers.

Heck a rubberized home version is advertised on TV and a tougher version is available for mobile home roofs, which has been used on shingled roofs to prevent the shingles from coming loose during hurricanes.

The entrance door should have been water tight plus blast proof. (You just know if we ever get desperate enough to use the contents of the vault, there will be some insane group who will try to break in and destroy everything because Terrorism.)

Even preppers who have dugouts take every precaution they can afford.

I wonder if building the thing was a contracted job? Meaning the lowest price?

Also, we well know that permafrost 'defrosts'. There were instances of this before the Global Warming situation. Also, because the planet is on a variable orbit around the sun, some summers will be much hotter than others because we happened to drift a bit too close.

They should have consulted Science fiction writers, who make good money dreaming up all of the problems any situation can have and then needing to find solutions.

Technically, the majority of the building should be anchored in bedrock and not just floating in permafrost. Plus have a couple of 'air locks' before anyone can get into the vault.
 
2017-05-19 04:55:49 PM  

brantgoose: Nice try, humanity. I sincerely applaud your effort.

Unfortunately, predictions of the future are usually based on the past. The past is a biased sample.

We base our policies on one hundred year events, five hundred year events, ten thousand year events. But our data and experience are brief and do not contain the full range of probabilities, let alone possibilities.

The Thames barriers are already obsolete. They were build from designs based on a few centuries of flooding, before climate change. They will fail, London will Flood, just like in the TV shows and movies, and a few 19th century SF novels.

The Dutch based their planning on the 1953 floods. These were 10,000 year floods. Even they may be insufficient over the next 1,000 years. But the Dutch were experienced in the whims of the sea, having reclaimed much of their country from it during the long interglacial period in which we are still technically living. They will be better prepared. They have floating houses, for example, and canals. They have survived several great floods, including intentional flooding during war time.

The future will always be surprising. This is the less of Nassim Nichola Taleb, famous author of the Incerto Trilogy including the best seller The Black Swan. It is a critique of how we think, plan and invest.

He has absorbed and ordered the thinking of the MIddle East for thousands of years (from which our Greek and Hebrew heritage are drawn), and has practiced as an investor and a philosopher. His health taught him what business and philosophy did not. he is a graduate summa cum laude of the School of Hard Knocks, being not only a stock market player, the scion of a formerly powerful and wealthy Lebanese family, and a thinker in a world of arrogant believers in their own ability in the chaotic world of investments and speculation.

When you define the worst that can happen as the worst that has happened in living memory, you are unprepared for great shocks and calamities, such as ...


Trump reference in one!
This HAS to move Killery's butt into the oval office now!
 
2017-05-19 05:04:03 PM  
It's like ten thousand spoons on your wedding day.
 
2017-05-19 05:04:07 PM  
> contains almost a million packets of seeds, each a variety of an important food crop

I'm going to go out on a limb and say some of those varieties are "obscure" rather than "important".
 
2017-05-19 05:06:19 PM  

optikeye: You'd think they'd would have put some weather stripping on that thing.


They probably forgot after they lost the key and had to wait around for a Nordic locksmith to show up .
 
2017-05-19 05:07:19 PM  
I was thinking perhaps that structure, sunk into the permafrost, caused the permafrost to melt more quickly at that spot. Like cinders or rock spread over a snowbank.

Just a thought.
 
2017-05-19 05:11:08 PM  
Guys, I have a chest freezer in the garage that I'm not using. Feel free.
 
2017-05-19 05:11:57 PM  
My guess is that a large storm came by, made large waves that crashed into the vault, and some guy accidentally left the front door open.
 
2017-05-19 05:13:00 PM  

AppleOptionEsc: Permafrost is an unfortunate name, because it isn't.


img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2017-05-19 05:15:42 PM  
It seems to me that if you seriously want to take a chance on things staying frozen you'd place the thing somewhere around the south pole. However it would probably get buried and move over time.
 
2017-05-19 05:20:47 PM  

brantgoose: Nice try, humanity. I sincerely applaud your effort.

Unfortunately, predictions of the future are usually based on the past. The past is a biased sample.

We base our policies on one hundred year events, five hundred year events, ten thousand year events. But our data and experience are brief and do not contain the full range of probabilities, let alone possibilities.

The Thames barriers are already obsolete. They were build from designs based on a few centuries of flooding, before climate change. They will fail, London will Flood, just like in the TV shows and movies, and a few 19th century SF novels.

The Dutch based their planning on the 1953 floods. These were 10,000 year floods. Even they may be insufficient over the next 1,000 years. But the Dutch were experienced in the whims of the sea, having reclaimed much of their country from it during the long interglacial period in which we are still technically living. They will be better prepared. They have floating houses, for example, and canals. They have survived several great floods, including intentional flooding during war time.

The future will always be surprising. This is the less of Nassim Nichola Taleb, famous author of the Incerto Trilogy including the best seller The Black Swan. It is a critique of how we think, plan and invest.

He has absorbed and ordered the thinking of the MIddle East for thousands of years (from which our Greek and Hebrew heritage are drawn), and has practiced as an investor and a philosopher. His health taught him what business and philosophy did not. he is a graduate summa cum laude of the School of Hard Knocks, being not only a stock market player, the scion of a formerly powerful and wealthy Lebanese family, and a thinker in a world of arrogant believers in their own ability in the chaotic world of investments and speculation.

When you define the worst that can happen as the worst that has happened in living memory, you are unprepared for great shocks and calamities, such as the election of Donald J. Trump, a flood such as has not been seen in human history, or climate change due to anthropogenic trashing of the current climate system and the the current biosphere and geological era.

Nice try, humanity, but learn to plan for longer periods. Assume that the worst that has happened is only the worst that could have happened in a short period of time.

Plan for 100,000 years, not 10,000; 10,000 not 100.

Recently the flooding in this area caused the Federal Government to shut down its massive offices in Gatineau so that emergency vehicles would not be hampered by daily commuters.

I do not recall this ever happening before. This is, after all, the largest government complex after the Pentagon in Washington, DC.

Except during that terrorist attack, when they locked down half of the city. Also, the ice storm or the electricity black out, which sent many people home, it has been rare for government employees to be sent home in such numbers.

One of the small towns in this area had a 100 year flood plan which was trashed by the flooding. I guess maybe they should get a start on a flood plan that takes into account climate change and other extreme weather events that were impossible until quite recently because human populations and development simply did not exist everytwhere they do today.


I WANT YOUR DRUUUUGS

(To the tune of "I want your skull" by The Misfits)
 
2017-05-19 05:21:16 PM  

brantgoose: Nice try, humanity. I sincerely applaud your effort.

Unfortunately, predictions of the future are usually based on the past. The past is a biased sample.

We base our policies on one hundred year events, five hundred year events, ten thousand year events. But our data and experience are brief and do not contain the full range of probabilities, let alone possibilities.

The Thames barriers are already obsolete. They were build from designs based on a few centuries of flooding, before climate change. They will fail, London will Flood, just like in the TV shows and movies, and a few 19th century SF novels.

The Dutch based their planning on the 1953 floods. These were 10,000 year floods. Even they may be insufficient over the next 1,000 years. But the Dutch were experienced in the whims of the sea, having reclaimed much of their country from it during the long interglacial period in which we are still technically living. They will be better prepared. They have floating houses, for example, and canals. They have survived several great floods, including intentional flooding during war time.

The future will always be surprising. This is the less of Nassim Nichola Taleb, famous author of the Incerto Trilogy including the best seller The Black Swan. It is a critique of how we think, plan and invest.

He has absorbed and ordered the thinking of the MIddle East for thousands of years (from which our Greek and Hebrew heritage are drawn), and has practiced as an investor and a philosopher. His health taught him what business and philosophy did not. he is a graduate summa cum laude of the School of Hard Knocks, being not only a stock market player, the scion of a formerly powerful and wealthy Lebanese family, and a thinker in a world of arrogant believers in their own ability in the chaotic world of investments and speculation.

When you define the worst that can happen as the worst that has happened in living memory, you are unprepared for great shocks and calamities, such as the election of Donald J. Trump, a flood such as has not been seen in human history, or climate change due to anthropogenic trashing of the current climate system and the the current biosphere and geological era.

Nice try, humanity, but learn to plan for longer periods. Assume that the worst that has happened is only the worst that could have happened in a short period of time.

Plan for 100,000 years, not 10,000; 10,000 not 100.

Recently the flooding in this area caused the Federal Government to shut down its massive offices in Gatineau so that emergency vehicles would not be hampered by daily commuters.

I do not recall this ever happening before. This is, after all, the largest government complex after the Pentagon in Washington, DC.

Except during that terrorist attack, when they locked down half of the city. Also, the ice storm or the electricity black out, which sent many people home, it has been rare for government employees to be sent home in such numbers.

One of the small towns in this area had a 100 year flood plan which was trashed by the flooding. I guess maybe they should get a start on a flood plan that takes into account climate change and other extreme weather events that were impossible until quite recently because human populations and development simply did not exist everytwhere they do today.


Not this post in particular...just in general.
 
2017-05-19 05:22:14 PM  

meat0918: geocacherphil: we're boned

We've always been boned.  No species lasts forever.

It would be nice though if our great grandkids had a nice planet to eek out an existence on though.


Speak for yourself.

/stands in the corner, weeping
 
2017-05-19 05:22:28 PM  
This is for you, humanity...
Sad Trombone - Gaming Sound Effect (HD)
Youtube CQeezCdF4mk
 
2017-05-19 05:43:35 PM  

DarkSoulNoHope: meat0918: OMFG.

Reading the article, they didn't plan for the permafrost melting?

Really guys?

REALLY?!?!?!?!

They should have put it in the Antarctic, there's a whole bunch of land there.


Not to mention the driest place on earth is there, no meltwater concerns. Then again how long would it be after a disaster before society was able to get back to the mid-continental valley of Antarctica, probably a long, long time.
 
2017-05-19 05:44:38 PM  
Where did the water get in? I'm just not seeing it from the stock images available
Are there pictures of the actual event online somewhere?

img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2017-05-19 05:49:23 PM  
don't worry, we'll always have Monsanto seeds
 
2017-05-19 05:50:01 PM  

zang: > contains almost a million packets of seeds, each a variety of an important food crop

I'm going to go out on a limb and say some of those varieties are "obscure" rather than "important".


Perhaps "an important variety of a food crop". Diversity is going to be important.
 
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