FARK.com: (957204) Artillery shell with sarin explodes in Iraq, ignites flame war on Fark

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		Artillery shell with sarin explodes in Iraq, ignites flame war on Fark (reuters.com)		1250
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UncleBuck4U		2004-05-17 06:27:02 PM

JORG

Don't worry, just tell the boss that www.cumfacedgirl.com is really a political action site for Llama owners.

Really Killroy, you should know better! Shame on you. I'm afraid the mod's will not be pleased with you...

AttackBeta		2004-05-17 06:27:23 PM

rowper

Hey buh- ddy, you from indymedia perchance? You're about as ravenously stupid.

not_fnorgby		2004-05-17 06:27:31 PM

Fark It that covers the first sentence. read the second.

Calvin Hobbes		2004-05-17 06:28:09 PM

If there weren't any WMD's, why didn't Saddam disclose this? That is all resolution 1442 asked. If he REALLY didn't have them, he'd still be leader of his country.

Hehehe... not bloody likely. The attack was coming... all it needed was an excuse.

SmitetheRighteous		2004-05-17 06:29:01 PM

LostprophetR63

I'm not concerned with brutality. Call me cold, whatever you will. What I'm concerned more with is reasonable foreign policy towards our country. I don't agree with the idea that the United States should be a military agent of change for brutal dictatorships. That in itself is a crusade mentality that this country can neither afford nor has the drive for. I would love to help out every suffering child if I could, but the military is not an end all solution. However, I ALSO don't agree with the fact that we DO have a history of dealing with dictatorships and have established them for that matter. Nevertheless, we have. My point is, as a nation, we don't have the right to claim a monopoly on righteousness. We are dirty and continue to have dirt on our hands. If that be the case, let it at least be a focused and reasonable approach. You can't eliminate dirt altogether from politics. The Iraq war is a grandiose spectacle of hypocrisy(which the rest of the world is far more aware of than the average American since they are usually on the receiving end of our policies.) that makes me ill. We claim to spread sunshine while shooting our own foot at the same time.

spoogus		2004-05-17 06:29:32 PM

>>>See, if we FIND actual WMD, then the left will begin to claim that Saddam wasn't "secretly producing" it, and so Bush lied.<<<<

Shoot, it's easier than that. I've already seen people in other forums saying that if any WMDs are found it will obvious that Bush planted them there.

That's the beauty of conspiracy theories: Any evidence to the contrary just proves the theory.

madattheright		2004-05-17 06:29:32 PM

"If you're a cop, and you've got your weapon drawn on a fugitive criminal who has his hands hidden and refuses to show them, when do you assume he has a gun? And when do you shoot? In Saddam's case, his 'gun' could potentially kill millions. Just how long are you going to wait to protect yourself? Because if he does have something, it's too late for you already."

true..however...

have we already forgotten that the UN weapons inspectors BEFORE the war found NOTHING?

He didn't refuse to show...he opened the doors and allowed the weopons inspectors to do their job. Bush then said that he was hiding something and decided to attack before he allowed the UN to finish their inspection....remember?

ConfusedGuy		2004-05-17 06:29:50 PM

d23 wins. So many times over.

soporific		2004-05-17 06:29:53 PM

I refuse to believe that Saddam had WMD. I would only believe it if I saw a video of Saddam and Osama with the WMD in the background. And Saddam would be singing "Piss on You" while urinating on George W. Bush. Barbara Bush would also be there taking pictures.

THEN I might believe it.

allanhowls		2004-05-17 06:32:06 PM

LostprophetR63
We were doing so well, until you assumed I was liberal. I was intentionally keeping the flames generic. Now I have to call you a baby-raping Nazi. Damn.

I hate having to use the "safe word."

carboni		2004-05-17 06:32:06 PM

I would really want to comment, but I haven't had a chance to watch Michael Moore's propaganda film, to tell me how other people tell me how to think. I want to be grounded in the fundamentals of revisionist history, sensationalistic facts and the real facts on how Bush created the ebola virus, with the Saudis. Or whatever. I want to be on the same page as all folk around here, without having to go through the trouble of being born in an alternate reality.

But there is a difference between WMDs and chemical weapons. They are not mutually exclusive or inclusive. The anthrax "poison pen writer" or someone with a chlorine bomb, are all chemical weapons. But that doesn't make them a wielder of WMD, unless they combine it with the water supply system of a major city or some other form of horribly creative way to introducce chemicals to a large population base.

TommyymmoT		2004-05-17 06:32:15 PM

The Symbol
I just found one of your baby pictures.

Faethe		2004-05-17 06:32:21 PM

Well its nice to know they found one. A little one yeah. But at least there was something.

Mabye its got a map or manufacture date on it somewhere so they know where the other ones were. Ya know like a serving size info or something?

Wytchocolate		2004-05-17 06:32:22 PM

****habraham****

Thanks for the complement. I can't wait to tell my parents.

brhein		2004-05-17 06:33:50 PM

d23

Just because you know some people who don't have jobs, doesnt mean everyone doesnt. And globalism and outsourcing are just a fact of life. Get realistic. If you disgree, then you have pretty much the most conflicted personal political view I've ever seen.

Raicilla		2004-05-17 06:33:52 PM

To me this is the reason Cheney's has his Halliburton contractors building that big ass bunker under his crib. This is the BIG STORY as it were. When (not if) Israel comes a knockin at Iran's door, hello USA, hello Russia, hello big farking missile exchange.

http://www.tehrantimes.com/Description.asp?Da=5/18/2004&Cat=2&Num=025

excerpt:
"Iran is our old and stable partner," Putin said during the Kremlin meeting.

"We know that the leaders of Iran attach great importance to the development of relations with Russia, and we are grateful," Putin said.

He added that trade between the two countries rose by 70 percent over the past two years, AFP reported.

Russia is building the Bushehr nuclear reactor in Iran despite fierce protests from the United States.
End......

Bad news for fundies. Cheney and company plan on surviving an attack. Out of the brief but deadly exchange... one world government. Because the world really is that small now.

Russia is a farked up mess that never really disavowed Communism. They simply built a less burdensome model. Communism-Lite. They are still a totally farked up top down country. China is out of the realm of this conflict. They are content to bide their time as any good Gog would.

Have fun arguing over a shell casing.

thermodie		2004-05-17 06:33:59 PM

Tommyymmot do you know what life would be like if they would have put you in the stroller before they pushed you? Im AMERICAN and i say we got the man, we got the proof of WMD and time to make an example to them what terrorism is when we become the terrorist. Oh yeah get the oil while your at it.

The Symbol		2004-05-17 06:35:14 PM

And, TommyymmoT.
I found one of you.

xiola		2004-05-17 06:35:50 PM

OK, so crossing a Llama and a squirrel, geographically speaking, you get the South American Chinchilla:

chukstar says "'cus it's cute!"

pontechango		2004-05-17 06:36:33 PM

TheGoblinKing

Let me expound upon your analogy to help you understand the signifigance of Tuwaitha. Imagine a cop that pulls over a motorist. The cop searches his car because he behaves suspiciously and finds a loaded handgun (legal), some brass knuckles (illegal) and a box of donuts (hydrocarbons). He arrests the guy for the brass knuckles and locks him in the police car. In a glutinous orgy, the cop eats all the donuts and forgets the handgun on the curb. He drives away and the gun is later found by some neighborhood children.

AttackBeta		2004-05-17 06:36:42 PM

soporific

I refuse to believe that Saddam had WMD. I would only believe it if I saw a video of Saddam and Osama with the WMD in the background. And Saddam would be singing "Piss on You" while urinating on George W. Bush. Barbara Bush would also be there taking pictures.

THEN I might believe it.

Thanks for admitting that you're biased up front. and I mean that. At least you'll be honest about the fact that no evidence in the world will sway you from your beliefs. As opposed to the other clowns who pretend that it will, and yet somehow never. quite. manage. to. be. convinced.

21-7-b		2004-05-17 06:37:08 PM

pontechango

we had no hard intel, and not much soft intel for that matter

i mean firstly he always comes from the idea that he can see more than the next man, so the not looking at the big picture thing was to be expected, but then this nonsense, like the whole 9/11 investigation can get glossed over, like the memos stating there was most definitely a problem

these are plainly people who whatever they manage to achieve in life can not think out the box when it comes to everyday issues

i know next to nothing about the situation, i don't sit on any commissions, command a regiment or ever loaf as a fly on the wall of the corridors of power

i just state the obvious, but these guys seem completely unable to even see that far if it doesn't agree with their agenda

LostprophetR63		2004-05-17 06:37:11 PM

SmitetheRighteous

Then why the claim that a theocratic regime is worse than a secular regime? Although history has seen both, I'm not arguing anything about the USA. I'm trying to make the point that secularity is not better than theocracy prima facia

allenhowls

ok, back to generic flaming since I'm a moran...

Your ideas are all false based on the fact that I am right all the time. I know for a fact that everything I know is right because I know it. Why would I memorize BS (unlike yourself).

/see kids, you CAN have a serious and silly convo at the same time

Faethe		2004-05-17 06:37:29 PM

Oh they showed a pic of what the shell looks like on ABC. It's really a little shell. Makes sense some dipshiat found it in a warehouse somewhere and decided to use it as a mine.

/McGyver Baghdad

MonkeyBoy666		2004-05-17 06:37:35 PM

eps
Well of course both Bush and Clinton are evil. They're politicians! It's a job requirement.

jimmyjackfunk		2004-05-17 06:38:14 PM

they haven't found the stockpiles that were supposedly there, I suggest we withdraw all troops from Iraq, pull our men out from Korea, and Bosnia and we invade Paraguay, those damn alpacas must be stopped.

vote Joe camel 2004

Joe Rockhead		2004-05-17 06:38:25 PM

I haven't seen Michael Moore's movie either, but I love when the right paints leftist points of view as "propaganda" and the people who agree with them as being some sort of naive fools.

Then they turn around and believe EVERYTHING their president tells them.

In American history, who has lied to and deceived the citizen more - the Oval Office or Hollywood? I don't seem to recall Hollywood (or any other form of media) being behind Watergate, Vietnam, the Teapot Dome scandal, the Lewinsky scandal, etc...

Faethe		2004-05-17 06:39:39 PM

Hmm.. I think if they found Michael Moore in the desert he would be considered a weapon of silly destruction...yeah like that...

/nothin'

Raicilla		2004-05-17 06:40:03 PM

Let's see.

USA says Iran=Axis of Evil
Russia = building Nuke Factory for Iran
Russia = friend of USA?

I think not. Russia is run by proud Oligarchs who have seen their nation humiliated at the hands of the super imperialist US of A. Russia never stopped aiming those damn missiles at us, did they?

soporific		2004-05-17 06:40:07 PM

AttackBeta - you never watch Chapelle Show?

/wow, can't believe he took that at face value

ThreeCircle		2004-05-17 06:41:47 PM

I'm sure they'll change their minds that it was Sarin in a couple weeks. These are just initial tests. Everybody here is jumping the gun.

By the way, chemical battlefield munitions are not considered WMDs. These are for strategic use on enemy troops, not cities.

Ironpoint		2004-05-17 06:41:54 PM

Is this enough to give republicans their orgasm?

UncleBuck4U		2004-05-17 06:42:04 PM

Can it be that 5% of the Republican population DIED over the last month?

Wytchocolate		2004-05-17 06:43:06 PM

****Calvin Hobbes ****

The excuse was the fact that Saddam failed to abide by 14 UN resolutions over the course of 12 years. Resumptions of hostilities was the result of him not doing so. Read Article 2 and Article 8 of Resolution 1442. The UN, France, and Russia risked losing billions of dollars in illegal oil money if they supported a war. IT WAS NEVER THE UN'S RESPONSIBILITY TO FIND WMD. THE CONDITIONS OF IRAQ'S SURRENDER IN 1991 ACCORDING TO THE UN WAS THAT SADDAM WAS TO DISCLOSE THE DESTRUCTION OF WMD'S THAT HE ADMITTED HAVING!! FAILURE TO DO SO MEANT THE RESUMPTION OF HOSTILITIES.

carboni		2004-05-17 06:43:08 PM

Michael Moore said himself that he wants the movie released before the election, so that people who will see it, will throw Bush out. That's propaganda (or, a political ad disguised as an impartial documentary).

pontechango		2004-05-17 06:44:04 PM

soporific

Beta fish are known to attack first and ask questions later.

yuks		2004-05-17 06:44:45 PM

MORE LLAMAS!!
MORE BUNNIES!!
MORE...err whatever that vicious-looking rodent is.

by the way, Zarqari didn't kill Daniel Berg, unless he's a white guy with an anglo accent and two good legs. I guess ejsmammy hasn't actually watched the video...

LostprophetR63		2004-05-17 06:44:51 PM

Ironpoint

This brought to you by OFN, or Orgasms for Neo-Cons.

And yes, if you believe this constitues a complete arsenal of WMD you are a neo-con.

/I call dibs on Ann Coulter
//HI-YOOOOOOOOOO!

TommyymmoT		2004-05-17 06:45:15 PM

thermodie

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Thank you, that was a welcomed laugh.

"Tommyymmot do you know what life would be like if they would have put you in the stroller before they pushed you? Im AMERICAN and i say we got the man, we got the proof of WMD and time to make an example to them what terrorism is when we become the terrorist. Oh yeah get the oil while your at it.

Thank you for confirming my suspicions, that you truly are a moron.

We've only owned this country for roughly over a year. Gas prices are higher than ever. Notify us when we get the oil, and prices decrease.

Oh yeah, mom says to put your helmet on, your bus is here.

Joe Rockhead		2004-05-17 06:45:44 PM

UncleBuck4U

Can it be that 5% of the Republican population DIED over the last month?

Has there been some terrorist attack at a NASCAR event I wasn't made aware of? That's terrible!

d23		2004-05-17 06:45:52 PM

brhein

Just because you refuse to look doesn't mean there are a lot of people out there... a lot of WELL QUALIFED people... that can't get jobs. You missed the point... those phrases are just thrown out and they mean nothing. They are thrown out there to confuse and make it look like something is being done to help those people who have been hurt. You obviously just blindly believe them.

I am not going into outsourcing and visas here but here is a link... not that I beleieve you will look at it, but here is an analysis of the offical unemployment numbers in regards to the education level...

vdare.com

rowper		2004-05-17 06:46:15 PM

AttackBeta

You're about as clever as most people from NY. Go cry on your embroidered 9/11 NYPD-FDNY pillow you fuhking loser. NEVER FORGET!

You can't even present a rebuttal; all you can do you mentally masturbate yourself into thinking there's just that one way you see on the fuhking television.

Don't try to talk shiat when you have nothing to say, biatchass trick.

wydok		2004-05-17 06:46:22 PM

Um, it's Socks the Cat's fault!

(What is this argument about, again?)

utlaw2004		2004-05-17 06:46:33 PM

I've come to the conclusion that, in the minds of the anti-war loonies, it doesn't matter how many WMDs are eventually found. It will never be enough to have justified the war. Whatever we find will be:

(a) Planted there by the US
(b) Remnants of old WMDs that were "lost" by the Iraqis
(c) Small and inconsequential, not a "stockpile"
(d) All of the above

If the anti-war crowd were to actually admit that Saddam had WMDs, wanted more WMDs, and would have used said WMDs against American interests if given the chance, I think their heads would a'splode.

Ghastly		2004-05-17 06:46:41 PM

2004-05-17 03:49:25 PM TommyymmoT

Considering the fact that any one of these assholes could fly over here with enough sarin (which can be made from publicly available materials, by anyone with even a rudimantary knowledge of chemistry) hidden in a shampoo bottle to take out an entire city, do you really think that they would waste such a valuable commodity in such a manner?

If Sarin gas is that easy to produce then why would they bother trying to fly over here with it hidden in a shampoo bottle? Why not just fly the people with a rudimentary knowledge of chemistry over here and let them make the stuff for you.

Of course that seems like more trouble than it's worth.

Want to have real fun, just take two mason jars. Fill one with Comet/Ajax cleansing poweder, fill the other with liquid bleach. Take them to a crowded shopping mall and drop them off a balcony. Probably won't kill anyone with the gas but I'll bet you get a few with the stampede that will follow.

Let's face it, there's an inifinte number of ways terrorists could cause massive amounts of terror on a shoe string budget. The "hijack a plane and fly it into a building" option is no longer available, but it's been proven that the "hide in the bushes and randomly shoot people with a sniper rifle" method works wonders for causing fear with a very low chance of getting caught (provided you're not stupid enough to taunt the police with letters and give them your bank account number). Imagine what you could do with a dozen or so guys constantly moving from random city to random city.

Imagine what a dozen or so guys dropping those little homemade chlorine gas bombs in shopping malls all over the country all on the same day at the same time (easy enough task to syncronize) would accomplish. It would probably be a one shot deal, or they might be able to pull off another attack every few months or so.

Hell, good old fashioned Palistinian styled suicide bombings on US soil would do a pretty good job of creating terror.

I mean jeeze, I'm just an average Joe but if I sat down and thought about it I could probably come up with a couple dozen ways to create a lot of national terror on a shoe string budget. Which leads me to wonder, if it's so damned easy for the terrorists to really cause a lot of domestic terror on US soil, why the heck arn't we seeing monthly, or even weekly or daily attacks on the US?

Or has 911 raised the bar for terrorists? Perhaps they view such simple forms of attack as beneith them now and arn't doing anything until they can come up with something more spectacular than 911.

Something has got to be preventing all these potential terrorist attacks on US soil, but what? I doubt it's the draconian Fatherland Security measures. I don't think it's the "Rainbow of Vague Doom and Gloom" alert system that is doing it.

To be honest, I would not be surprised if it turns out that what is really keeping all these sleeping terrorist cells asleep is the fact that once they get over to the US and start living an american lifestyle, the vast majority of them start to go "Hey, you know what, I've got it pretty good right now. My job's alright. My neighbours arn't all that bad, certainly not the 'Great Satans' I was lead to believe they are. I've got a nice apartment and a pretty okay home entertainment system and there's plenty of porn on the internet. Why the hell should I blow myself up just so some rich guy hiding out in the mountains somewhere can fool himself into thinking he's getting closer to his dream of being the King of Arabia?"

I'm sure there's still plenty of fanatics still gung-ho on dieing for the cause (and the 72 heavenly virgins)but I bet you most of them, after living in the US long enough arn't really all that keen on the idea of a suicide attack anymore, especially when they've put a downpayment on a big screen TV and the World Cup playoffs are just around the corner.

I mean really, causing terror is easy as hell. There's got to be some reason why more people arn't doing it.

nakedbonzai		2004-05-17 06:47:01 PM

Uh, hello? We've been droping MOABs in Iraq, that isn't a weapon of mass destruction? A small shell with siren doesn't even compare.

ddrem		2004-05-17 06:47:11 PM

How many times did the media use the terms "weapons of mass destruction" and "WMD" over the last year? Now they find some Sarin gas in an artillery shell, and the Reuters headline is "U.S. Army Says Finds Shell with Sarin Agent in Iraq".

I've heard people argue that the media isn't biased, that they just gravitate towards the sensational to sell papers or boost ratings. I ask you, which headline is more sensational: "U.S. Army Says Finds Shell with Sarin Agent in Iraq", or "U.S. Army Finds WMD in Iraq"? Which headline is going to sell more papers or boost their ratings? What, they all got together and decided to become responsible journalists just today?

The media is talking around this "WMD" thing. They know that a found "WMD" might help Bush in the polls, and that a found "Shell with Sarin Agent" might just confuse people who have no idea what a sarin agent is, or what a spy from Sarin was doing hiding in a shell. So they choose the "wordier" and longer headline. Since when do they do that?

The photo captions are priceless, too:

"A U.S. Marine keeps watch from atop his Humvee during patrols near Falluja, May 17, 2004. A small amount of the nerve agent sarin was found in a shell that exploded in Iraq (news - web sites), the U.S. army said Monday in the first announcement of discovery of any of the weapons on which Washington made its case for war."

They just can't bring themselves to write "WMD" or "weapons of mass destruction".

AP's headline: "Sarin-Filled Munitions in Iraq Worry U.S.". That's just a tiny bit longer than an alternative sensationalized "WMD Found in Iraq" headline.

It was probably just a slow news day and they needed to fill space. Not enough news coming out of Iraqi prisons, I guess. It couldn't be bias. No way.

SmitetheRighteous		2004-05-17 06:47:12 PM

LostprophetR63

I see. Well that's where we differ. I do believe that secularism is indeed better than a theocracy on all levels. I have nothing against religion per say....as long as it stays separate from government. It is my belief that logic and reason should dominate(as much as possible)the workings of bureacracy and government. The inner workings of faith are too abstract to apply as an instrument of national policy, especially within a diverse body politic.

MacV		2004-05-17 06:47:50 PM

I think it's funny that people are discounting this. Some are even changing the definition of WMDs to mean only nuclear weapons now.

Look folks, we found a chemical weapon that was supposed to be destroyed before 1991 and the first Gulf War. He didn't destroy them and there is no evidence that they have been destroyed. 15,000 artilery shells would make a big pile of metal if they were destroyed. Use some common sense people. Sadam had these weapons David Kay found the production facilities to make Ricin, we know Sadam was trying to buy the technology from North Korea to build a plant in Iraq to make long range missles well outside of the UN allowed limit. Wake up and use some common sense. You asshats won't be happy unless 100,000 people die in a chemical attack and you'll still find some way to blame Bush if that happens. I'm sorry this isn't Vietnam so you can hold hands and sing songs and think that you are somehow helping this country by doing so. All you are doing are getting more troops killed by giving the terrorists hope that the protesters will some how change the mind of the US gov if they kill enough people. We had finally gotten out of that mindset from Vietnam when asshat Clinton pulled out from Somalia and once again reinforced it.