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(Daily Mail)   Elon Musk wants to be the Borg Queen within four years   ( dailymail.co.uk) divider line
    More: Scary, Daisy Dunne, EDT, Reuters, Mailonline  
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1706 clicks; posted to Geek » on 21 Apr 2017 at 8:50 AM (26 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2017-04-21 08:16:04 AM  
Sure..
 
2017-04-21 08:16:58 AM  
Snow Crash.
 
2017-04-21 08:48:39 AM  
I'll take a Seven Of Nine please.
 
2017-04-21 08:53:49 AM  
Aw, f#ck no.
 
2017-04-21 09:05:54 AM  
Queen to Queen's level three.
 
2017-04-21 09:28:05 AM  
No need to go through all the trouble... he just needs to ask us.
 
2017-04-21 09:33:52 AM  
Elon.... another Culture reference?
 
2017-04-21 09:34:37 AM  
Hey I'm all for it. A step towards digitized consciousness, no matter how small, is a step towards practical immortality.
 
2017-04-21 09:52:23 AM  

BalugaJoe: Queen to Queen's level three.


Queen to king's level one.

As to the computer, I wouldn't mind downloading a copy of myself to some database down the line.
 
2017-04-21 10:12:32 AM  
You will all make excellent drones.
 
2017-04-21 10:14:49 AM  
Not really seeing the "scary" here. This has huge potential, in the slim chance it succeeds, and that, I think, isn't so likely in that timeframe.
 
2017-04-21 10:26:53 AM  
I think, and my thoughts cross the barrier into the synapses of the machine - just as the good doctor intended. But what I cannot shake, and what hints at things to come, is that thoughts cross back. In my dreams the sensibility of the machine invades the periphery of my consciousness. Dark. Rigid. Cold. Alien. Evolution is at work here, but just what is evolving remains to be seen.
Commissioner Pravin Lal, "Man and Machine"
-From Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri
 
2017-04-21 10:44:16 AM  

victrin: Hey I'm all for it. A step towards digitized consciousness, no matter how small, is a step towards practical immortality.


but why would you want to be immortal in a imperfect world?
 
2017-04-21 10:49:09 AM  

ShadowLAnCeR: victrin: Hey I'm all for it. A step towards digitized consciousness, no matter how small, is a step towards practical immortality.

but why would you want to be immortal in a imperfect world?


Simulate a perfect one.
 
2017-04-21 10:49:40 AM  

victrin: Hey I'm all for it. A step towards digitized consciousness, no matter how small, is a step towards practical immortality.


No it's not. A copy of you isn't you. You still die, and a copy takes over your life.
 
2017-04-21 10:50:20 AM  
Wait, But Why? has an in-depth take on this story.
 
2017-04-21 11:20:38 AM  

Herr Morgenstern: victrin: Hey I'm all for it. A step towards digitized consciousness, no matter how small, is a step towards practical immortality.

No it's not. A copy of you isn't you. You still die, and a copy takes over your life.


If you don't perceive any interruption...does it matter?
 
2017-04-21 11:22:08 AM  
The only problem I see is the cost. Wealth creating another class of human. That could easily become a dystopia.
 
2017-04-21 11:29:11 AM  

Cathedralmaster: The only problem I see is the cost. Wealth creating another class of human. That could easily become a dystopia.


It won't be one for long. Theyll just slaughter most of us and keep a few around as pets.
 
2017-04-21 11:33:12 AM  
The penalty for a robot harming a human will be one thousand years frozen in carbonite!
 
2017-04-21 11:33:49 AM  
Whoa, dude, I read that headline as "Bong Queen".

// Damn you 420!
 
2017-04-21 11:33:58 AM  

balko: Cathedralmaster: The only problem I see is the cost. Wealth creating another class of human. That could easily become a dystopia.

It won't be one for long. Theyll just slaughter most of us and keep a few around as pets.


No, we'll hunt them for sport with dogs. And they will live on reservations, and cannot vote.
 
2017-04-21 11:53:26 AM  

victrin: Hey I'm all for it. A step towards digitized consciousness, no matter how small, is a step towards practical immortality.

img.fark.net

If Seven of Nine isn't available then Echo will do. Or Eliza Dushku. I'm not fussy.

 
2017-04-21 11:56:39 AM  
Just what Tesla needs - another distracting moon-shot from their scatterbrained CEO, who, if you are honest with yourself, knows fark-all about neurology. He has an undergrad is physics and economics and he was in grad school for two days. If there is some money in this thing you can bet it's not his. And it's a foregone conclusion the tech/process has literally nothing to do with him because he has no expertise in the field whatsoever.

Summary - someone gave Elon Musk a truckload of money to attach his name to something based on the public's mistaken perception that he's some kind of polymath technology genius and thus garner lots of page hits in the popular press.
 
2017-04-21 12:10:01 PM  

Ron Vibbentrop: victrin: Hey I'm all for it. A step towards digitized consciousness, no matter how small, is a step towards practical immortality.

[img.fark.net image 850x478]

If Seven of Nine isn't available then Echo will do. Or Eliza Dushku. I'm not fussy.


I'm partial to this one.
img.fark.net
 
2017-04-21 12:10:26 PM  
As long as it comes with AdBlocker, I'm down with it.
 
2017-04-21 12:27:59 PM  
I'll only do it if I can be an Adrienne Barbeau-bot
 
2017-04-21 12:28:55 PM  
Part of consciousness is knowing what thoughts should be allowed out and what thoughts should be kept inside.  It's that second half that enables successful social cooperation.  I've always thought that if telepathy had ever evolved in the human species we would have been forced to instantly exterminate them.  I don't see how adding a computer to the mix would improve anything.  Does the world actually need telepathic flame wars?
 
2017-04-21 01:18:56 PM  

MeSoRonery: Does the world actually need telepathic flame wars?


I know what you're thinking.... Yes!
 
2017-04-21 01:20:01 PM  
Oh I had a nightmare last night where everyone had brain implants and some kid working on a game accidentally made everyone's implant make them feel like the air temperature was rising at one degree a second. It was very uncomfortable and hard to move after a few minutes.
 
2017-04-21 01:30:31 PM  

Vaginosilicosis: Herr Morgenstern: victrin: Hey I'm all for it. A step towards digitized consciousness, no matter how small, is a step towards practical immortality.

No it's not. A copy of you isn't you. You still die, and a copy takes over your life.

If you don't perceive any interruption...does it matter?


Well, other than you still die, no.   Reading Comprehension matters.    A copy of your memories is not you, a clone of you is not you.   You get to die after you see something that in some ways resemble you shift into something obviously not you.
 
2017-04-21 01:41:41 PM  

Felgraf: I think, and my thoughts cross the barrier into the synapses of the machine - just as the good doctor intended. But what I cannot shake, and what hints at things to come, is that thoughts cross back. In my dreams the sensibility of the machine invades the periphery of my consciousness. Dark. Rigid. Cold. Alien. Evolution is at work here, but just what is evolving remains to be seen.
Commissioner Pravin Lal, "Man and Machine"
-From Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri


As always, Pravin Lal is tentative and fearful over little trifles like malicious AI,
 
2017-04-21 01:44:36 PM  

Occam's Disposable Razor: ShadowLAnCeR: victrin: Hey I'm all for it. A step towards digitized consciousness, no matter how small, is a step towards practical immortality.

but why would you want to be immortal in a imperfect world?

Simulate a perfect one.


They already did but the first simulation was a complete disaster. Entire crops were lost.
 
2017-04-21 01:44:56 PM  

Tr0mBoNe: Sure..


Exactly. This guy is a crock of shiat.
 
2017-04-21 01:58:49 PM  

MeSoRonery: Part of consciousness is knowing what thoughts should be allowed out and what thoughts should be kept inside.  It's that second half that enables successful social cooperation.  I've always thought that if telepathy had ever evolved in the human species we would have been forced to instantly exterminate them.  I don't see how adding a computer to the mix would improve anything.  Does the world actually need telepathic flame wars?


The Ricky Gervaise/Jennifer Garner movie Invention Of Lying was a bit like that.
 
2017-04-21 02:07:31 PM  
No thanks, but thanks for trying.
 
2017-04-21 03:14:45 PM  

JohnBigBootay: Just what Tesla needs - another distracting moon-shot from their scatterbrained CEO, who, if you are honest with yourself, knows fark-all about neurology. He has an undergrad is physics and economics and he was in grad school for two days. If there is some money in this thing you can bet it's not his. And it's a foregone conclusion the tech/process has literally nothing to do with him because he has no expertise in the field whatsoever.

Summary - someone gave Elon Musk a truckload of money to attach his name to something based on the public's mistaken perception that he's some kind of polymath technology genius and thus garner lots of page hits in the popular press.


Or maybe this new tech could rid us of some useless emotions like, hmmmm,ah yes-jealousy.
 
2017-04-21 03:33:09 PM  
The conjoiners in Alistair Reynolds novels would be a cool result of this technology.

Or even the BrainPal (TM) in Scalzis Old Mansion War series.

Some good might come from it.
 
2017-04-21 03:39:41 PM  

BigSquibowski: JohnBigBootay: Just what Tesla needs - another distracting moon-shot from their scatterbrained CEO, who, if you are honest with yourself, knows fark-all about neurology. He has an undergrad is physics and economics and he was in grad school for two days. If there is some money in this thing you can bet it's not his. And it's a foregone conclusion the tech/process has literally nothing to do with him because he has no expertise in the field whatsoever.

Summary - someone gave Elon Musk a truckload of money to attach his name to something based on the public's mistaken perception that he's some kind of polymath technology genius and thus garner lots of page hits in the popular press.

Or maybe this new tech could rid us of some useless emotions like, hmmmm,ah yes-jealousy.


Nothing bury will come of it at all. Go ahead and keep your eye on the story - you'll become jealous of my ability to predict the future. At least the power wall was tangentially connected to something he understands...

https://www.fool.com/amp/investing/general/2016/04/21/why-teslas-powe​r​wall-has-been-a-failure-so-far.aspx

... but has largely been a flop.

You aren't getting a hyperloop either. I'd confine hope to hitting model 3 Target dates but the smart money says they won't.
 
2017-04-21 04:07:39 PM  

JohnBigBootay: BigSquibowski: JohnBigBootay: Just what Tesla needs - another distracting moon-shot from their scatterbrained CEO, who, if you are honest with yourself, knows fark-all about neurology. He has an undergrad is physics and economics and he was in grad school for two days. If there is some money in this thing you can bet it's not his. And it's a foregone conclusion the tech/process has literally nothing to do with him because he has no expertise in the field whatsoever.

Summary - someone gave Elon Musk a truckload of money to attach his name to something based on the public's mistaken perception that he's some kind of polymath technology genius and thus garner lots of page hits in the popular press.

Or maybe this new tech could rid us of some useless emotions like, hmmmm,ah yes-jealousy.

Nothing bury will come of it at all. Go ahead and keep your eye on the story - you'll become jealous of my ability to predict the future. At least the power wall was tangentially connected to something he understands...

https://www.fool.com/amp/investing/general/2016/04/21/why-teslas-power​wall-has-been-a-failure-so-far.aspx

... but has largely been a flop.

You aren't getting a hyperloop either. I'd confine hope to hitting model 3 Target dates but the smart money says they won't.


Lol,nice. I agree with your assessments of certain technologies, but I thought the original description of Musk was a bit rough. He is an idea man, and works to see those ideas to fruition. He gets a lot of criticism for his ways but has been quite successful at promoting advanced technologies.
 
2017-04-21 04:39:43 PM  

BigSquibowski: Lol,nice. I agree with your assessments of certain technologies, but I thought the original description of Musk was a bit rough. He is an idea man, and works to see those ideas to fruition. He gets a lot of criticism for his ways but has been quite successful at promoting advanced technologies.


I'm of two minds about the guy and they aren't both negative. On the one hand I hate the (mostly US press) penchant for creating all-knowing geniuses that can do no wrong. The truth is Musk is a very good project manager with a penchant for bombastic PR. He's also got a great nose for venture capital and that's no small thing. What I bristle at is the perception (intentional or not) that he's some mad scientist holed up in a lab running complex experiments and inventing amazing tech day after day (think Dean Kamen - also overblown and exaggerated though he did actually patent some cool stuff). Dude essentially made his money in financial services with paypal and they frankly didn't want him to stick around.

On the other hand he is passionate about renewable energy and the Tesla is the biggest move forward for EV's. It's a great car it doesn't get to where it is without him. He's moved the whole EV movement forward maybe a decade beyond where it would have been without him and that's a decidedly good thing. I also appreciate the sentiment behind him signing the giving pledge.
 
2017-04-21 04:43:44 PM  

Uncontrolled_Jibe: Vaginosilicosis: Herr Morgenstern: victrin: Hey I'm all for it. A step towards digitized consciousness, no matter how small, is a step towards practical immortality.

No it's not. A copy of you isn't you. You still die, and a copy takes over your life.

If you don't perceive any interruption...does it matter?

Well, other than you still die, no.   Reading Comprehension matters.    A copy of your memories is not you, a clone of you is not you.   You get to die after you see something that in some ways resemble you shift into something obviously not you.


Yes, reading comprehension does matter and so I'll ask again so you can have a go at trying it.   If you can't perceive any change of state and whatever it is that makes up consciousness is still going then did you really "die"?
 
2017-04-21 05:21:15 PM  

Vaginosilicosis: Uncontrolled_Jibe: Vaginosilicosis: Herr Morgenstern: victrin: Hey I'm all for it. A step towards digitized consciousness, no matter how small, is a step towards practical immortality.

No it's not. A copy of you isn't you. You still die, and a copy takes over your life.

If you don't perceive any interruption...does it matter?

Well, other than you still die, no.   Reading Comprehension matters.    A copy of your memories is not you, a clone of you is not you.   You get to die after you see something that in some ways resemble you shift into something obviously not you.

Yes, reading comprehension does matter and so I'll ask again so you can have a go at trying it.   If you can't perceive any change of state and whatever it is that makes up consciousness is still going then did you really "die"?


The thing that gets me in every movie and TV show that I've seen with this, Arnie's The 6th Day for example, have someone having their brain scanned which can then be put in a new body.
But the moment you have that scan and you're still sitting in that seat you, as far as you are concerned, can die. The knowledge that if you fall into a combine harvester that tomorrow a snapshot of you taken a week or year ago will wake up in a new body is scant consolation. You are still going to fall into that combine and die.
You are not going to wake up in a new body. The experiences you have had since the brain scan mean that is now a different person.

The version of you that wakes up will think they are still you. To them they will still be alive. But that's no consolation to you as you are going through the combine. You will die. The end.
 
2017-04-21 06:46:26 PM  

Ron Vibbentrop: Vaginosilicosis: Uncontrolled_Jibe: Vaginosilicosis: Herr Morgenstern: victrin: Hey I'm all for it. A step towards digitized consciousness, no matter how small, is a step towards practical immortality.

No it's not. A copy of you isn't you. You still die, and a copy takes over your life.

If you don't perceive any interruption...does it matter?

Well, other than you still die, no.   Reading Comprehension matters.    A copy of your memories is not you, a clone of you is not you.   You get to die after you see something that in some ways resemble you shift into something obviously not you.

Yes, reading comprehension does matter and so I'll ask again so you can have a go at trying it.   If you can't perceive any change of state and whatever it is that makes up consciousness is still going then did you really "die"?

The thing that gets me in every movie and TV show that I've seen with this, Arnie's The 6th Day for example, have someone having their brain scanned which can then be put in a new body.
But the moment you have that scan and you're still sitting in that seat you, as far as you are concerned, can die. The knowledge that if you fall into a combine harvester that tomorrow a snapshot of you taken a week or year ago will wake up in a new body is scant consolation. You are still going to fall into that combine and die.
You are not going to wake up in a new body. The experiences you have had since the brain scan mean that is now a different person.

The version of you that wakes up will think they are still you. To them they will still be alive. But that's no consolation to you as you are going through the combine. You will die. The end.


Every time you wake up its into a new consciousness but we don't believe that we die every time we sleep.  All we are is a collection of stored memories housed in a very complex machine.

If you are transferred to a machine while asleep and the plug is pulled on your body you will wake up the same as any other day just in a new form.   Unless you are a total lunatic you would not want to have the body wake up just to watch the machine version of you feed your still conscious body into a wood chipper.
 
2017-04-21 07:09:00 PM  

ShadowLAnCeR: victrin: Hey I'm all for it. A step towards digitized consciousness, no matter how small, is a step towards practical immortality.

but why would you want to be immortal in a imperfect world?


Now... Imagine Pope Urban II immortal.

That's you in 1000 years.
 
2017-04-21 08:42:57 PM  

Vaginosilicosis: Every time you wake up its into a new consciousness but we don't believe that we die every time we sleep.  All we are is a collection of stored memories housed in a very complex machine.

If you are transferred to a machine while asleep and the plug is pulled on your body you will wake up the same as any other day just in a new form.   Unless you are a total lunatic you would not want to have the body wake up just to watch the machine version of you feed your still conscious body into a wood chipper.


But "Immortality" is either "I can fall into this combine and come out unhurt" or "I can fall into this combine and the next thing I will know I will wake up in a new body"

Neither of those will happen here. If I fall into that combine I will die. If my brain was copied a week ago all that will be lost. That girl I met yesterday? That movie I saw three days ago? That decision to give up crack cocaine I made four days ago? All gone. A version of me will wake up, but that is already not "me". That version never met this girl, saw that movie and is still on crack cocaine.

As far as I am concerned it might as well be my twin brother. Yeah, he's a lot like me. He thinks he's me. But he isn't "me". I will be dead.

Think about it. If I took a brain scan of you, like The Sixth Day, and then a week later I said to you "I'll give you $5 if you jump off this cliff. But I'll put your consciousness, the week old one, into a new body tomorrow" would you really jump off that cliff without a care in the world? As you hurtle towards the rocks hundreds of feet below will the fact that a version of you will wake up tomorrow really make it all okay?

That replacement of course will have no knowledge of the $5. I could have done the same thing to you a dozen times. But you will never know.
 
2017-04-21 09:32:29 PM  

Ron Vibbentrop: Vaginosilicosis: Every time you wake up its into a new consciousness but we don't believe that we die every time we sleep.  All we are is a collection of stored memories housed in a very complex machine.

If you are transferred to a machine while asleep and the plug is pulled on your body you will wake up the same as any other day just in a new form.   Unless you are a total lunatic you would not want to have the body wake up just to watch the machine version of you feed your still conscious body into a wood chipper.

But "Immortality" is either "I can fall into this combine and come out unhurt" or "I can fall into this combine and the next thing I will know I will wake up in a new body"

Neither of those will happen here. If I fall into that combine I will die. If my brain was copied a week ago all that will be lost. That girl I met yesterday? That movie I saw three days ago? That decision to give up crack cocaine I made four days ago? All gone. A version of me will wake up, but that is already not "me". That version never met this girl, saw that movie and is still on crack cocaine.

As far as I am concerned it might as well be my twin brother. Yeah, he's a lot like me. He thinks he's me. But he isn't "me". I will be dead.

Think about it. If I took a brain scan of you, like The Sixth Day, and then a week later I said to you "I'll give you $5 if you jump off this cliff. But I'll put your consciousness, the week old one, into a new body tomorrow" would you really jump off that cliff without a care in the world? As you hurtle towards the rocks hundreds of feet below will the fact that a version of you will wake up tomorrow really make it all okay?

That replacement of course will have no knowledge of the $5. I could have done the same thing to you a dozen times. But you will never know.


Like I said, the only proper way to do it is while you are asleep.   You get uploaded and your body gets turned off while its asleep, wake up will come on the computer and you will miss out on nothing.

Making a copy and keeping the original is cloning, not immortality, killing either once it wakes up would be murder.
 
2017-04-21 10:00:32 PM  

Vaginosilicosis: Like I said, the only proper way to do it is while you are asleep.   You get uploaded and your body gets turned off while its asleep, wake up will come on the computer and you will miss out on nothing.

Making a copy and keeping the original is cloning, not immortality, killing either once it wakes up would be murder.


The former is essentially the way Star Trek transporters work, killing the original every time and replacing it with a copy.

But the latter is used in movies like 6th day to create a backup to be used if you have an accident. But once you get that scan and step out of the chair or whatever you know that if you die you die. The more time passes the less you have in common with that backup. It isn't you anymore. And if you get shot your last thought will not be "Never mind. A copy of me will wake up. I'm not bothered"
You last thought will be "I couldn't care less about that copy. It won't be me! I'm dying!"
 
2017-04-21 10:20:27 PM  

Ron Vibbentrop: Vaginosilicosis: Like I said, the only proper way to do it is while you are asleep.   You get uploaded and your body gets turned off while its asleep, wake up will come on the computer and you will miss out on nothing.

Making a copy and keeping the original is cloning, not immortality, killing either once it wakes up would be murder.

The former is essentially the way Star Trek transporters work, killing the original every time and replacing it with a copy.

But the latter is used in movies like 6th day to create a backup to be used if you have an accident. But once you get that scan and step out of the chair or whatever you know that if you die you die. The more time passes the less you have in common with that backup. It isn't you anymore. And if you get shot your last thought will not be "Never mind. A copy of me will wake up. I'm not bothered"
You last thought will be "I couldn't care less about that copy. It won't be me! I'm dying!"


Maybe figure a way to put in a chip that functions as RAID 1 on your head.   Then, when you bite the dust they pop it out and upload it to a smoking hot android body, maybe with the option of overwriting the final painful 4 hours you spent stroking out on the bathroom floor available as an upgrade package.


The most horrifying version of the mental cloning you describe ever done was "White Christmas" episode of Black Mirror, what a nightmare.
img.fark.net
 
2017-04-21 11:19:19 PM  

Vaginosilicosis: The most horrifying version of the mental cloning you describe ever done was "White Christmas" episode of Black Mirror, what a nightmare.


Funny. I saw that exact clip a couple of weeks ago at the IMAX in London, with Charlie Brooker sitting ten feet from me.
 
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