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(Salon)   Liberal's favorite conservative columnist calls Black people lazy and shiftless, unlike those hard working Asians. Oh lawds   ( salon.com) divider line
    More: Fail, Asian American, model minority, Racism, Race, model minority myth, white working class, White American, Andrew Sullivan  
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3201 clicks; posted to Politics » on 20 Apr 2017 at 12:39 PM (26 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2017-04-20 08:46:37 AM  
When did I start liking Andrew Sullivan?
 
2017-04-20 09:08:08 AM  
Nobody tell Sullivan that recent black immigrants from Africa such as Eritreans tend to perform well. Perhaps because they had the capital to gtfo and start a new life and hadn't been here for the centuries of racism like most african-americans.

Amazingly, success as an immigrant group tends to be inverse to how many beatings old white conservatives gave out. Shocking.

/Noticed old, white and conservative are redundant.
 
2017-04-20 09:20:54 AM  
He's always been a "race realist"... too bad since he's not always wrong about other things.
 
2017-04-20 09:32:09 AM  
See, Japanese type Asians did well despite internment and harassment, so that clearly shows how racism benefits the victims of racism. Got it.
 
2017-04-20 10:05:52 AM  
"Liberal's favorite conservative columnist"

Who is this 'Liberal,' and why have I not heard of him until now?
 
2017-04-20 10:53:24 AM  
Was it Andrew Sullivan's daughter in the "Sparkling Wiggles" video?
 
2017-04-20 11:19:55 AM  
 
2017-04-20 12:16:15 PM  

Diogenes: When did I start liking Andrew Sullivan?


"Liberal's" as in one liberal.  You wouldn't know her... she goes to a different high school.
 
2017-04-20 12:25:37 PM  
Shut up, Sullivan, you dopey Irish bastard.
 
2017-04-20 12:40:45 PM  

factoryconnection: Diogenes: When did I start liking Andrew Sullivan?

"Liberal's" as in one liberal.  You wouldn't know her... she goes to a different high school.


I hear she's Canadian, too
 
2017-04-20 12:43:27 PM  
Sippy Cupp is my favorite conservative columnist.
 
MFK
2017-04-20 12:43:35 PM  
jesus farking christ, you guys will blame liberals for everything. Even yourselves.
 
2017-04-20 12:43:54 PM  
Andrew Sullivan, really?
 
2017-04-20 12:44:06 PM  
Sullivan also has a pretty bad case of Hillary Derangement Syndrome.

This, however, is worse.
 
2017-04-20 12:44:15 PM  
I haven't had a favorite conservative columnist since I stopped editing Pat Buchanan columns for fun (about 1977).
 
2017-04-20 12:45:04 PM  

edmo: See, Japanese type Asians did well despite internment and harassment, so that clearly shows how racism benefits the victims of racism. Got it.


Except they didn't.

250k Asians back then. Well over 20 million now.  That didn't happen from breeding.  When toyota came to my area, they didn't bring in former internment victims.  They brought well educated and we'll off native Japanese people.
 
2017-04-20 12:45:29 PM  
Red state white people: Blacks really should get off their asses and do what is needed to get a job!!!

beat

Red state white people: It's elitist to think I need to go to college and get a tech job!!! Why doesn't the government bring back my goal mining and other jobs that no longer exist!!?!?!
 
2017-04-20 12:45:44 PM  

MFK: jesus farking christ, you guys will blame liberals for everything. Even yourselves.


Oh, especially themselves! Remember that whole "you made us vote for Trump because you were mean to us" stuff?
 
2017-04-20 12:46:12 PM  

Headso: Sippy Cupp is my favorite conservative columnist.


img.fark.net
 
2017-04-20 12:46:52 PM  
By "Liberal's", we mean, Liberal, Kansas.
 
2017-04-20 12:46:59 PM  
They just can't help themselves, can they?
 
2017-04-20 12:48:01 PM  
If whites in rural areas had more opportunity to sell drugs and make a large amount of cash quickly, there'd be a lot more crime. Meth is definitely helping in those areas, but they still have a limited market since there are simply less people to sell to.
 
2017-04-20 12:48:52 PM  

Tr0mBoNe: He's always been a "race realist"... too bad since he's not always wrong about other things.


I find him an engaging and thought provoking writer... and then he starts talking about race. It's odd because he was actually getting better about it towards the end of his blog. Seems like he's backsliding.
 
2017-04-20 12:49:24 PM  

cheezesub: Nobody tell Sullivan that recent black immigrants from Africa such as Eritreans tend to perform well.


Why?  That strongly supports what he actually wrote.
 
2017-04-20 12:49:38 PM  

spcMike: factoryconnection: Diogenes: When did I start liking Andrew Sullivan?

"Liberal's" as in one liberal.  You wouldn't know her... she goes to a different high school.

I hear she's Canadian, too


She's a model, but really into Star Trek and gaming.
 
2017-04-20 12:51:43 PM  

12349876: edmo: See, Japanese type Asians did well despite internment and harassment, so that clearly shows how racism benefits the victims of racism. Got it.

Except they didn't.

250k Asians back then. Well over 20 million now.  That didn't happen from breeding.  When toyota came to my area, they didn't bring in former internment victims.  They brought well educated and we'll off native Japanese people.


I think the guy you were responding to was being sarcastic. Still, your point is well taken. If you compare Asian groups that have come over as refugees (e.g. Koreans, Vietnamese, and Cambodians), you find they don't do so great in comparison to those groups who came over under regular immigration rules that privilege students and highly-educated professionals.
 
2017-04-20 12:52:17 PM  
Since I think all conservatives are trash people, no, I don't have a favorite conservative columnist.

Yes. All of them.
 
2017-04-20 12:53:28 PM  
I think Andrew Sullivan makes a great case for "the conservatism of doubt": the idea that conservatism should be caution in major policy shifts and skepticism of idealistic results.

I think he makes a complete idiot of himself on cultural matters except for gay marriage and (after taking some time to reflect on it) abortion. He's always pushed "The Bell Curve" as required reading, implied a lot of inborn attributes based on race, and even had Dan Savage's back on how biphobia is justified.
 
2017-04-20 12:55:07 PM  
Andrew, as someone who had family in the Internment, can you kindly STFU on a a subject that you clearly have zero idea about? Between the Internment, the Chinese Exclusion Act, the "indentured servitude" that wasn't much better than slavery that got many Chinese here--and unable to become citizens, nor their children for that matter. On top of that, Asian Americans of most stripes, from Filipino to Vietnamese, Cambodians and more still face endemic racism, as well as being ghettoized in major cities, and denied basic services. The idea that Asian Americans don't face struggles, and they have "overcome their limitations" only feeds the inherent racism of such a thought process, and ignores the issues that still face the Asian-American community. Beyond just the generalized Yellow Peril that Donnie likes to invoke. Beyond Hollywood Yellow Face that we saw LAST YEAR in a f*cking Marvel movie that grossed $600M. And let's not even talk about the recent Ghost in the Shell for that, motherf*cker...

Beyond the lack of role models on TV, or in sports, and the sad fact is, that even when there ARE roles for Asians on TV, they tend to get pigeonholed into the cowardly sidekick. Or the barely able to speak English sidekick. Or the tech geek who couldn't possibly go out in the field. Or the mysterious warrior with a code who can't form attachments and for damn sure doesn't hook up with women-folk, and certainly not with the white wimmins.

Asian Americans aren't even a single demographic, because of national origins. Chinese Americans AREN'T Japanese Americans, though as far as TV is concerned, why bother with distinctions, because they got slanted eyes, right? There are a few shows that DO get it right, and oddly enough, I'm looking at the Hawaii 5-0 reboot that has Japanese, Korean, and Filipino and Vietnamese immigrants who ARE of those nationalities, and from those communities. But the TV and film portrayals are just symptoms of a deeper, willful misunderstanding.

Politicians seem to think that "Asians" are a monolithic group, that does no favors to refugees who come in from poor and even terrible conditions, and put them into the same basket as Japanese and Chinese immigrants who have established communities and many who came over on their own steam. And politicians who pretend that "Asian" is a singular ethnicity, when there are a LOT of Asian folks, and the only tie that many of these communities have in common, is that they come from west of California and east of Tajikstan and south of Irkutsk, and include billions of folks with histories that politicians here don't even bother attempting to understand, let alone address the needs of those communities.

But please, Whitesplain my people to me, you arrogant, ignorant bastiche.

And I'm a f*cking hafu you festering boil.
 
2017-04-20 12:55:39 PM  
I didn't know we had to pick a favorite. Geez...I guess...Caryatid?
 
2017-04-20 12:58:39 PM  
The idea that Asians are a "model minority" among conservatives is completely bogus. I have many conservative people in my family who fear the Chinese are taking our jobs, who vilify the Koreans (failing to understand the distinction between the two countries) and who dislike the Japanese when it comes to cars (even though most Japanese cars driven in the US are now American-made). And these folks often have an extreme dislike for other Asian peoples from poor East Asian countries, from India/Pakistan or the former USSR (Kyrgyzstan).

Is it true that conservatives are LESS racist to Asian Americans than other ethnic groups? Not really. Racism against Asian peoples (particularly the Chinese) has a long history in America, and it's still present today. (Just read some yelp reviews on an Asian-owned business that's not a restaurant and you'll see at least one critiquing the owners and asking why more "English speakers" can't work there. This is often a dog whistle.)

Sullivan is actually making an argument that it's OK to be racist if you can justify it by saying you're less racist to the people you like better, which is nonsense.
 
2017-04-20 12:59:55 PM  
As I always tell my students, if you look at the broad sweep of American history, no matter who is getting pissed on, blacks are pretty much always getting it worse.

Real simple examples, during World War II, Asian-Americans and Hispanics fought in integrated units (with the exception of Japanese Americans), African-Americans did not. The Red Cross segregated the blood supply during the war. The categories were "blacks" and "everybody else." Even Japanese-Americans were included in the latter. These examples could go on forever.

The point being, to deal with the issue of race in America, you have to honestly reckon with the reality that African-Americans have been pissed on for centuries, and you can't just wipe away the legacy of that by passing a couple of laws.
 
2017-04-20 01:00:09 PM  

BMFPitt: cheezesub: Nobody tell Sullivan that recent black immigrants from Africa such as Eritreans tend to perform well.

Why?  That strongly supports what he actually wrote.


I've always wondered, when you delete entire paragraphs from someone's post and make a comment/"point" that is actually refuted by what you deleted, do you think you're being clever? Do you think nobody will remember that their comment had more content/content that refuted your so-called point? Why do you do it?
 
ecl [TotalFark] [BareFark]
2017-04-20 01:03:13 PM  

hubiestubert: Andrew, as someone who had family in the Internment, can you kindly STFU on a a subject that you clearly have zero idea about? Between the Internment, the Chinese Exclusion Act, the "indentured servitude" that wasn't much better than slavery that got many Chinese here--and unable to become citizens, nor their children for that matter. On top of that, Asian Americans of most stripes, from Filipino to Vietnamese, Cambodians and more still face endemic racism, as well as being ghettoized in major cities, and denied basic services. The idea that Asian Americans don't face struggles, and they have "overcome their limitations" only feeds the inherent racism of such a thought process, and ignores the issues that still face the Asian-American community. Beyond just the generalized Yellow Peril that Donnie likes to invoke. Beyond Hollywood Yellow Face that we saw LAST YEAR in a f*cking Marvel movie that grossed $600M. And let's not even talk about the recent Ghost in the Shell for that, motherf*cker...

Beyond the lack of role models on TV, or in sports, and the sad fact is, that even when there ARE roles for Asians on TV, they tend to get pigeonholed into the cowardly sidekick. Or the barely able to speak English sidekick. Or the tech geek who couldn't possibly go out in the field. Or the mysterious warrior with a code who can't form attachments and for damn sure doesn't hook up with women-folk, and certainly not with the white wimmins.

Asian Americans aren't even a single demographic, because of national origins. Chinese Americans AREN'T Japanese Americans, though as far as TV is concerned, why bother with distinctions, because they got slanted eyes, right? There are a few shows that DO get it right, and oddly enough, I'm looking at the Hawaii 5-0 reboot that has Japanese, Korean, and Filipino and Vietnamese immigrants who ARE of those nationalities, and from those communities. But the TV and film portrayals are just symptoms of a deeper, willful misunderstanding.

Politi ...


www.threadbombing.com
 
2017-04-20 01:03:35 PM  

hubiestubert: Andrew, as someone who had family in the Internment, can you kindly STFU on a a subject that you clearly have zero idea about?....


Don't hold back, dude.  How do you really feel?
 
2017-04-20 01:03:41 PM  
"Lazy" is how conservatives justify their disdain for the disenfranchised.

Black people, poor people, people on welfare, people on food stamps, immigrants, refugees, Hispanic people, uneducated, students, college graduates, teachers, professors, union members, doctors, nurses, scientists, lazy, lazy, lazy.

Just hope you don't lose your status or you'll be lazy too.
 
2017-04-20 01:05:49 PM  

Dan the Schman: I've always wondered, when you delete entire paragraphs from someone's post and make a comment/"point" that is actually refuted by what you deleted, do you think you're being clever? Do you think nobody will remember that their comment had more content/content that refuted your so-called point? Why do you do it?


I prefer brevity to giant quote blocks, Exorcist since the full chain is only a click away.  And since the irrelevant sections didn't actually refute or address anything in my post...

Perhaps you could elaborate on what you think I said?
 
2017-04-20 01:05:54 PM  

This Is Bold Text: "Lazy" is how conservatives justify their disdain for the disenfranchised.

Black people, poor people, people on welfare, people on food stamps, immigrants, refugees, Hispanic people, uneducated, students, college graduates, teachers, professors, union members, doctors, nurses, scientists, lazy, lazy, lazy.

Just hope you don't lose your status or you'll be lazy too.


What actual lazy people might look like..

img.usmagazine.com
 
2017-04-20 01:08:01 PM  

hubiestubert: And let's not even talk about the recent Ghost in the Shell for that, motherf*cker...


Really disappointed they didn't get Yoko Kanno for the soundtrack.

||HEY, LISTEN! #2|| Ghost in the Shell: SAC - Inner Universe (+ Lithium Flower Outro)
Youtube t3Zy0LTZdJg
 
2017-04-20 01:08:55 PM  

Trivia Jockey: Headso: Sippy Cupp is my favorite conservative columnist.

[img.fark.net image 500x281]


No conservative columnist I can think of writes anything worth reading. Their philosophy is fundamentally flawed. But at least she is easy to look at.
 
2017-04-20 01:11:02 PM  

mongbiohazard: Trivia Jockey: Headso: Sippy Cupp is my favorite conservative columnist.

[img.fark.net image 500x281]

No conservative columnist I can think of writes anything worth reading. Their philosophy is fundamentally flawed. But at least she is easy to look at.


David Brooks, now that he's escaped the chains of having to pretend like he actually agrees with the modern GOP, has become somewhat interesting.

/Now I have to go wash off the unclean feeling.
 
2017-04-20 01:13:09 PM  

eiger: Tr0mBoNe: He's always been a "race realist"... too bad since he's not always wrong about other things.

I find him an engaging and thought provoking writer... and then he starts talking about race. It's odd because he was actually getting better about it towards the end of his blog. Seems like he's backsliding.


He has always had a soft spot for Charles Murray and his eugenics crap. Back when Sullivan was the editor of The New Republic, he nearly had the entire editorial staff quit on him because of his blind support of Murray. He doesn't get that that there are fundamental scientific problems with Murray's work.
 
2017-04-20 01:21:13 PM  

Trivia Jockey: Sullivan also has a pretty bad case of Hillary Derangement Syndrome.

This, however, is worse.


Oh it gets better, his whole "why can't n***ers be more like those nice hardworking Asians" bit came as an aside in a multipage primal scream about how much he hates Hillary.
 
2017-04-20 01:23:07 PM  
David Frum said what?
 
2017-04-20 01:23:08 PM  

Satanic_Hamster: hubiestubert: And let's not even talk about the recent Ghost in the Shell for that, motherf*cker...

Really disappointed they didn't get Yoko Kanno for the soundtrack.

[iFrame https://www.youtube.com/embed/t3Zy0LTZdJg - 480x270]


I might have even gone to see it if they did that.
 
2017-04-20 01:25:43 PM  

12349876: edmo: See, Japanese type Asians did well despite internment and harassment, so that clearly shows how racism benefits the victims of racism. Got it.

Except they didn't.

250k Asians back then. Well over 20 million now.  That didn't happen from breeding.  When toyota came to my area, they didn't bring in former internment victims.  They brought well educated and we'll off native Japanese people.


I mean, sure if you think we'll get away with it, but I hear Japan has a 96% conviction rate on murders.
 
2017-04-20 01:28:23 PM  
This author's refutation seems pretty thin at parts. For instance:

Primarily, it ignores how Asian-American immigrant groups such as the Hmong and Cambodians have struggled with poverty, incarceration and other types of social stigmas and marginalization.

Of course there are groups within a broad population that don't match the data of that population as a whole.
 
2017-04-20 01:29:35 PM  

eiger: Tr0mBoNe: He's always been a "race realist"... too bad since he's not always wrong about other things.

I find him an engaging and thought provoking writer... and then he starts talking about race. It's odd because he was actually getting better about it towards the end of his blog. Seems like he's backsliding.


I too have understood Sullivan to be thought provoking on a large number of issues. A few years ago, after Dr. Tiller was assassinated, he hosted a dialogue with his readers about fetal death/damage and third trimester abortion. It went on for weeks. He did some very good work there, and he's decades ahead of curve on gay rights [relative to American conservatives], among a plethora of things.
BUT...
Don't EVER forget, he's been pimping "The Bell Curve" since it streeted [prolly has a copy near his bed for sleepy time/ego propping reads], and spent a creepy amount of time chiding (his friend) Ta-Nehisi Coates for being angry/sad about racism. And lot's never forget just how big a CHUB Andrew had for Schrubby's War at it's genesis.
I read the Daily Dish a great deal, but [despite his giant man-crush on Barack Obama] I never forget HE IS a white supremacist. He's very polite about it, but so is Pat Buchanan.
 
2017-04-20 01:32:04 PM  

Grungehamster: I think he makes a complete idiot of himself on cultural matters except for gay marriage and (after taking some time to reflect on it) abortion. He's always pushed "The Bell Curve" as required reading, implied a lot of inborn attributes based on race, and even had Dan Savage's back on how biphobia is justified.


Well shiatballs...
 
2017-04-20 01:33:05 PM  
Which "liberal" is that, dumbmitter?

I find Andrew Sullivan kind of entertaining, but ... sometimes he swings and misses. Apparently, this is one of those times. I didn't click the link because, eh, I don't really care.
 
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