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(Chron)   Don't condemn this couple for giving birth so the infant's organs can be harvested, have a little heart   ( chron.com) divider line
    More: Weird, Keri Young, Infant, Family, Young, Thought, Will Young, 2002 singles, Mind  
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11275 clicks; posted to Main » on 20 Apr 2017 at 8:50 AM (26 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2017-04-20 06:16:27 AM  
Okay, I don't condemn them. Mind you, my powers of condemnation are rather impotent so it probably doesn't matter that much. Same goes for my praise but such as it is, I say good on ya. You took a sucky situation that is certainly very painful and you found a way to do something good for others. So for that, I praise you. Praise you with much praise.
 
2017-04-20 06:29:07 AM  
Awfully nice of you to offer some heart subby, but i've always preferred the liver myself if that's cool with you.

Now, where's my Chianti?
 
2017-04-20 07:41:55 AM  
Why would anyone condemn them for that?  They made a choice and it's no one's business but theirs.
 
2017-04-20 08:28:41 AM  
Instead of one baby, they have a half-dozen partial babies?  Visitation schedule must be a biatch.
 
2017-04-20 08:36:13 AM  

Ambivalence: Why would anyone condemn them for that?  They made a choice and it's no one's business but theirs.


Bears repeating.
 
2017-04-20 08:36:44 AM  
Assuming the child would feel no pain (I'm not a doctor but it sounds like that's the case) this is really noble.  Can't be an easy thing to do but maybe some good can come of it.
 
2017-04-20 08:48:22 AM  

UNC_Samurai: Ambivalence: Why would anyone condemn them for that?  They made a choice and it's no one's business but theirs.

Bears repeating.


A. Lot.
 
2017-04-20 08:52:07 AM  
One of the best headlines in a long time.
 
2017-04-20 08:52:16 AM  

nekom: Assuming the child would feel no pain (I'm not a doctor but it sounds like that's the case) this is really noble.  Can't be an easy thing to do but maybe some good can come of it.


Also bears repeating.  Had to have been a tough decision.
 
2017-04-20 08:54:17 AM  
Sorry, but I see a truckload of medical ethics problems here. I don't condemn the parents, but this sets a dangerous precedent.
 
2017-04-20 08:55:41 AM  
I knew a couple that waited to give birth so they could bury theirs that died in the womb.   Kind of odd carrying around a dead fetus I thought.
 
2017-04-20 08:56:07 AM  
As a mother, I don't know what I would do if faced with this situation. I respect their choice (no matter what decision they make) and am glad that they made the best of a gut wrenching situation. RadioLab had a feature on a family that made a similar choice and then followed up on each donation. Grab some tissues. It gets dusty but it's worth a listen.
http://www.radiolab.org/story/grays-donation/
 
2017-04-20 08:57:51 AM  
"Have a little heart"

media0.giphy.com
 
2017-04-20 08:58:44 AM  
My son is the spitting image of me. Now 13 he looks just like I did, acts like I did and has the same learning difficulties I have. I often remind him that I only keep him around as a source of spare parts.
 
2017-04-20 08:59:33 AM  

JackieRabbit: Sorry, but I see a truckload of medical ethics problems here. I don't condemn the parents, but this sets a dangerous precedent.


It's not a precedent.  It's been done before.  And it's amazingly courageous of them.  Aborting a non-viable fetus is completely different from burying a brain-dead baby.  Fetuses are tissue that is removed - nice and sterile.  People don't fall in love with non-viable tissue.  A baby - even a brain-dead baby - will illicit the parental bonding response.  These people will have to deal with that for the rest of their lives.  Pretty selfless of them, really.
 
2017-04-20 09:01:56 AM  
oh subbyimg.fark.net
 
2017-04-20 09:05:05 AM  

JackieRabbit: Sorry, but I see a truckload of medical ethics problems here. I don't condemn the parents, but this sets a dangerous precedent.


If it wasn't for the part where the baby is basically born without a brain I'd agree.
This was the differing og two people: the parents. The baby, unfortunately, doesn't count.

I'd classify the act of the mother as pure heroism.
 
2017-04-20 09:05:36 AM  

JackieRabbit: Sorry, but I see a truckload of medical ethics problems here. I don't condemn the parents, but this sets a dangerous precedent.


The didn't elect to get pregnant with the plan of producing an organ donor. They discovered a problem pregnancy and then had a choice, abort or carry to term despite effectively no chance of a viability after birth. Many people choose the latter. All they did was add being organ donors as part of their reasoning. Where's the problem?
 
2017-04-20 09:07:22 AM  

wickedragon: JackieRabbit: Sorry, but I see a truckload of medical ethics problems here. I don't condemn the parents, but this sets a dangerous precedent.

If it wasn't for the part where the baby is basically born without a brain I'd agree.
This was the differing og two people: the parents. The baby, unfortunately, doesn't count.

I'd classify the act of the mother as pure heroism.


*suffering!
Goddamn Norwegian autocorrect. And it makes NO sense. Whats more Norwegian about differing?
 
2017-04-20 09:09:28 AM  

JackieRabbit: Sorry, but I see a truckload of medical ethics problems here. I don't condemn the parents, but this sets a dangerous precedent.


As long as they waited until the baby was actually deceased, then what would be the ethics issues?
 
2017-04-20 09:10:05 AM  

JackieRabbit: Sorry, but I see a truckload of medical ethics problems here. I don't condemn the parents, but this sets a dangerous precedent.


Like what?  Baby has birth defect incompatible with life.  Parents choose to carry to term rather than abort.  Baby is born.  Baby dies.  Baby is parted out like a 2003 Honda Accord.

Where's the ethical issue?
 
2017-04-20 09:13:13 AM  

wickedragon: JackieRabbit: Sorry, but I see a truckload of medical ethics problems here. I don't condemn the parents, but this sets a dangerous precedent.

If it wasn't for the part where the baby is basically born without a brain I'd agree.
This was the differing og two people: the parents. The baby, unfortunately, doesn't count.

I'd classify the act of the mother as pure heroism.


That kid could have grown up to be the next Republican president!
 
2017-04-20 09:15:06 AM  
Didn't they do this on Grey's Anatomy many years ago?  Also, I can't imagine how difficult it was for the mother, especially when she can feel the baby kicking and alive inside her.  I don't even know how you make it through the other side of that.  They made lemonade out of the most bitter lemons life has to offer.
 
2017-04-20 09:15:07 AM  

Too Pretty For Prison: JackieRabbit: Sorry, but I see a truckload of medical ethics problems here. I don't condemn the parents, but this sets a dangerous precedent.

It's not a precedent.  It's been done before.  And it's amazingly courageous of them.  Aborting a non-viable fetus is completely different from burying a brain-dead baby.  Fetuses are tissue that is removed - nice and sterile.  People don't fall in love with non-viable tissue.  A baby - even a brain-dead baby - will illicit the parental bonding response.  These people will have to deal with that for the rest of their lives.  Pretty selfless of them, really.


You make a good point. I have no opinion about the parent's decision. But this is not as straightforward as it seems. See Link for a summary of the ethical implications of this practice.
 
2017-04-20 09:15:08 AM  

polkadottie: As a mother, I don't know what I would do if faced with this situation. I respect their choice (no matter what decision they make) and am glad that they made the best of a gut wrenching situation. RadioLab had a feature on a family that made a similar choice and then followed up on each donation. Grab some tissues. It gets dusty but it's worth a listen.
http://www.radiolab.org/story/grays-donation/


GRAB SOME TISSUE??
 
2017-04-20 09:16:58 AM  
It was a shame the baby died.
It might have had a bright future as a GOP politician.
 
2017-04-20 09:17:53 AM  

DubyaHater: wickedragon: JackieRabbit: Sorry, but I see a truckload of medical ethics problems here. I don't condemn the parents, but this sets a dangerous precedent.

If it wasn't for the part where the baby is basically born without a brain I'd agree.
This was the differing og two people: the parents. The baby, unfortunately, doesn't count.

I'd classify the act of the mother as pure heroism.

That kid could have grown up to be the next Republican president!



curses!
*shakes tiny fist*
 
2017-04-20 09:21:37 AM  

JackieRabbit: Sorry, but I see a truckload of medical ethics problems here. I don't condemn the parents, but this sets a dangerous precedent.


How?  Please list those medical ethics issues.  Because what I see is an unviable pregnancy turned into something pretty amazing.  This was literally a fetus with no brain, not created through an act of intervention.

That's not a person, by any measure.  No consciousness, no mind, no thoughts, no emotions, nothing to feel pain, anguish, loss.  Nothing.  It provided a unique opportunity save a lot of other people, though.  And she was willing to go through the emotional and physical rigors to help a lot of others.

So please, let's hear these dangerous precedents.
 
2017-04-20 09:24:15 AM  
Subby,

img.fark.net
 
2017-04-20 09:25:43 AM  
I thought that was the danger posed by legalized abortion?
 
2017-04-20 09:26:40 AM  
Here's the precedent that some may be worried about:
"I agree that we should restrict abortion, but you should still be allowed to get one when the fetus is non-viable or the mother's life is in danger"
"When the mother's life is in danger, yes, but that non viable fetus must be carried to term so we can harvest its organs"
 
2017-04-20 09:26:43 AM  

Warthog: JackieRabbit: Sorry, but I see a truckload of medical ethics problems here. I don't condemn the parents, but this sets a dangerous precedent.

Like what?  Baby has birth defect incompatible with life.  Parents choose to carry to term rather than abort.  Baby is born.  Baby dies.  Baby is parted out like a 2003 Honda Accord.

Where's the ethical issue?


Honda.
 
2017-04-20 09:28:52 AM  

JackieRabbit: Sorry, but I see a truckload of medical ethics problems here. I don't condemn the parents, but this sets a dangerous precedent.


This was not a child conceived to be harvested.  That would be a huge ethical issue  This is a child that due to a defect will die shortly after birth.  They made a choice to turn their family's tragedy into miracles for a number of other families.  This was very noble of them.
 
2017-04-20 09:29:39 AM  

Ambivalence: They made a choice and it's no one's business but theirs.


I see you're new to the internet.
 
2017-04-20 09:32:26 AM  
I don't understand the weird tag.  Was the sad tag too heartbroken?
 
2017-04-20 09:33:36 AM  

Cheron: My son is the spitting image of me.


Poor kid...
 
2017-04-20 09:34:24 AM  
The person on the top of the brain transplant list probably feels like they just won the shiattiest lottery ever.
 
2017-04-20 09:34:42 AM  

nekom: Assuming the child would feel no pain (I'm not a doctor but it sounds like that's the case) this is really noble.  Can't be an easy thing to do but maybe some good can come of it.


Not only is it noble, it's logical, and gives some importance to the life of your child.  Sure, they could have chosen to get an abortion, but if it was me I would take some comfort in knowing my baby's life was used to help other babies.

I remember reading another story of a women who found out at 8 months that her child was going to be born with holes in it's brain and it wouldn't survive without being on life support.  Ultimately she had to fly to another state that performs late term abortions and it ended up costing the family tens of thousands of dollars (I'm not sure if anyone even suggested giving birth so the organs could be harvested, in fact i think it was the exact opposite, that if she gave birth the hospital would do everything in it's power to prolong the baby's life).  I think if you choose to have you're babies organs harvested all medical expenses should be covered by the government/the organ recipients insurance companies.  If you are at 8+ months pregnant and your options are have a baby that will suffer, have an abortion for tens of thousands of dollars, have a baby who's purpose will be to save the lives of other babies (and it's free) seems like a no brainer.   But I'm sure Pro-Lifers will say it's terrible.
 
2017-04-20 09:35:19 AM  

Cheron:  I often remind him that I only keep him around as a source of spare parts.


And this part is damned hilarious.
 
2017-04-20 09:35:29 AM  
I am not arguing with all you folks who keep asking me how this practice sets a dangerous precedent. I posted a link to an NCBI (NIH) discussion on this subject. Just read it to get an idea that there are serious ethical issues with the practice. Here's an excerpt from the fist paragraph:

"The potential to save the lives of infants dying from cardiac, renal and liver disease, and the desire to give meaning and benefit to the anencephalic infant's family were presented as justification for changes in the medical standards and the law concerning death and organ donation from anencephalic infants (6,7). Official statements from the Canadian Paediatric Society (CPS) (1990) and the American Academy of Pediatrics (1992) affirmed that anencephalic infants were not appropriate organ donors and rejected arguments advocating modification of the medical criteria of brain death and legal standards of pronouncement of death (8,9). This updated CPS statement presents current information for clinicians supporting the previous CPS position that did not support the use of anencephalic infants as organ donors in the clinical setting."

I'm not saying it is wrong, but it does need to be carefully considered and is being debated by clinicians and medical ethicists alike.
 
2017-04-20 09:35:51 AM  
Parts is parts

HYSTERICAL 80's Wendy's Commercial: "Parts is Parts"
Youtube y_oem9BqUTI
 
2017-04-20 09:36:40 AM  

Callous: This was not a child conceived to be harvested.  That would be a huge ethical issue


That's not an ethical issue. It's plain, old-fashioned murder.
 
2017-04-20 09:38:15 AM  
Before I read the article - I assumed the parents already had a sick kid , and then conceived for spare parts for existing child.  Glad I read the story.
 
2017-04-20 09:40:24 AM  
What strength and compassion on the part of these parents. They managed to turn the loss of their baby into a way of saving other kids.
 
2017-04-20 09:40:27 AM  

idrow: I don't understand the weird tag.  Was the sad tag too heartbroken?


Hero works too - for the parents.
 
2017-04-20 09:40:40 AM  
Pro-lifers immediately decry the organ harvesting saving lives.
 
2017-04-20 09:42:01 AM  

GentDirkly: Here's the precedent that some may be worried about:
"I agree that we should restrict abortion, but you should still be allowed to get one when the fetus is non-viable or the mother's life is in danger"
"When the mother's life is in danger, yes, but that non viable fetus must be carried to term so we can harvest its organs"


How about this:

Abortions are still completely legal as they are now, but you also have the option of bringing the baby to term so the organs can be harvested, and all medical bills will be covered by the recipients of the organs and/or the government.

Who has a problem with this, pro-birthers, pro-choicers, both, none?
 
2017-04-20 09:46:51 AM  
i.ytimg.com
"I can get you a new baby kidney from Bristol. It'll take two weeks."
 
2017-04-20 09:47:17 AM  

Raskol57: polkadottie: As a mother, I don't know what I would do if faced with this situation. I respect their choice (no matter what decision they make) and am glad that they made the best of a gut wrenching situation. RadioLab had a feature on a family that made a similar choice and then followed up on each donation. Grab some tissues. It gets dusty but it's worth a listen.
http://www.radiolab.org/story/grays-donation/

GRAB SOME TISSUE??


OK, even I had to funny this one. Well done. I should have said KLEENEX.
 
2017-04-20 09:54:20 AM  

hobbes0022: nekom: Assuming the child would feel no pain (I'm not a doctor but it sounds like that's the case) this is really noble.  Can't be an easy thing to do but maybe some good can come of it.

Not only is it noble, it's logical, and gives some importance to the life of your child.  Sure, they could have chosen to get an abortion, but if it was me I would take some comfort in knowing my baby's life was used to help other babies.

I remember reading another story of a women who found out at 8 months that her child was going to be born with holes in it's brain and it wouldn't survive without being on life support.  Ultimately she had to fly to another state that performs late term abortions and it ended up costing the family tens of thousands of dollars (I'm not sure if anyone even suggested giving birth so the organs could be harvested, in fact i think it was the exact opposite, that if she gave birth the hospital would do everything in it's power to prolong the baby's life).  I think if you choose to have you're babies organs harvested all medical expenses should be covered by the government/the organ recipients insurance companies.  If you are at 8+ months pregnant and your options are have a baby that will suffer, have an abortion for tens of thousands of dollars, have a baby who's purpose will be to save the lives of other babies (and it's free) seems like a no brainer.   But I'm sure Pro-Lifers will say it's terrible.


I wouldn't.  Carrying g to term is obviously the least bad choice in that situation.
 
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