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(NBC News)   Top generals, who are quietly building a bomb proof Oval Office under Mar-a-Lago, insist that if North Korea launches a missile the U.S military will be able to shoot it down   ( nbcnews.com) divider line
    More: Scary, missile defense, Missile Defense Agency, North Korea, ballistic missile, National missile defense, nuclear-armed ballistic missile, ballistic missile threats, Intercontinental ballistic missile  
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4660 clicks; posted to Main » on 19 Apr 2017 at 9:29 PM (26 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2017-04-19 07:11:02 PM  
In nine simulated attacks since the system was deployed in 2004, interceptors have failed to take out their targets six times, even though the flight tests were far less challenging than an actual attack, according to The Los Angeles Times.  Despite years of tinkering and vows to fix technical shortcomings, the system's performance has gotten worse, not better," The Times concluded.

Last year, the Government Accountability Office, the investigative arm of Congress, concluded that the agency that runs the missile defense system "has not demonstrated through flight testing that it can defend the U.S. homeland."

The missiles are based in Alaska and California because the West Coast is the best place from which to intercept missiles that would travel the shortest routes from both Iran and North Korea. Congress has pushed for a third site on the East Coast
 
2017-04-19 07:17:37 PM  
The West Wing covered this...

BARTLET Is that silence a pretty good sign?
 LEO No.
 MAN 1 [on radio] Negative intercept.
 GENERAL Have we got sensor readings yet?
 COLONEL CHASE No.
MAN 1 [on radio] Negative intercept. KM warhead has overshot its target.
 BARTLET It was just enthusiastic.
 LEO By how much?
 GENERAL Uh, Leo...
 LEO [sternly] By how much did it miss the target?
 GENERAL Colonel?
 COLONEL 137.
 LEO We missed the target by 137 feet?
 COLONEL Miles.
 LEO [looks at him, incredulous] We missed it by 137 miles?!
 BARTLET When you consider the size of outer space, Leo, that's not so bad.
COLONEL Sir?
BARTLET By the way, the words you're looking for are "Oh good grief." [walks out]
 
2017-04-19 07:20:01 PM  
I'm not Subby, BTW.

I also thought you ought to know how hard I had to fight to stop Steve Jobs from changing "Bartlet" to "Tartlet".
 
2017-04-19 09:32:02 PM  
The Norks might be able to hit Hawaii or the west coast... bastions of communism this nation would be better off without.

/Sarcasm
 
2017-04-19 09:35:20 PM  
I GUESS WE'LL FIND OUT.
Sorry.
I guess we'll find out.
 
2017-04-19 09:38:19 PM  
Assuming that GMD works perfectly, it still doesn't solve the problem. North Korea could simply deliver a warhead using an orbital rocket instead of a suborbital rocket, and choose any flight path they want. They could send a bomb the long way around and attack the US from the east or from the south, and never come into range of our interceptor missiles. NK has already launched two satellites into orbit, so this is not at all an impossible task for them.
 
2017-04-19 09:41:34 PM  
fark, let's just hope if anyone nukes us it will be in Mar-a-Lago first.  President Trumps "really all White House".
 
2017-04-19 09:42:12 PM  

RoomFullOfMonkeys: Assuming that GMD works perfectly, it still doesn't solve the problem. North Korea could simply deliver a warhead using an orbital rocket instead of a suborbital rocket, and choose any flight path they want. They could send a bomb the long way around and attack the US from the east or from the south, and never come into range of our interceptor missiles. NK has already launched two satellites into orbit, so this is not at all an impossible task for them.


Isn't their "satellite" the size of a washing machine and didn't it go offline and tumble out of orbit in less than a week?
 
2017-04-19 09:42:56 PM  
You mean before it crashes into the ocean, subby?
 
2017-04-19 09:43:30 PM  
It's called throw weight.  Yeah, they can maybe (doubtful tho) get an empty missile to our coast.  So what, it's mt.  Stuff a payload into it and, the heavier the payload the less distance they can throw it.  If they stuff a nuke into it they may be able to make it off their own coastline, although I would not bet on it.

/ kinda thinking a Tomahawk into the presidential palace next time they launch would be ok
// do not have any friends nor relatives in Seoul
/// kinda thinking we can take out all the offensive artillery batteries beforehand
//// kinda drunk, thinking might not be my thing at the moment
 
2017-04-19 09:44:22 PM  
Yeah especially when it comes floating in on a ship.
 
2017-04-19 09:45:05 PM  
There's nothing under Mar-a-Lago but the watertable.  It's south Florida, dude.
 
2017-04-19 09:46:02 PM  

secondpsych: RoomFullOfMonkeys: Assuming that GMD works perfectly, it still doesn't solve the problem. North Korea could simply deliver a warhead using an orbital rocket instead of a suborbital rocket, and choose any flight path they want. They could send a bomb the long way around and attack the US from the east or from the south, and never come into range of our interceptor missiles. NK has already launched two satellites into orbit, so this is not at all an impossible task for them.

Isn't their "satellite" the size of a washing machine and didn't it go offline and tumble out of orbit in less than a week?


It would only have to maintain stable flight for less than one full orbit to be useful as a weapon. As for size, they need to miniaturize the warhead regardless of whether they put it on an orbital or suborbital rocket.
 
2017-04-19 09:46:30 PM  
Hold my beer, I got this....

img.fark.net
 
2017-04-19 09:47:43 PM  
If they're made of paper mache, we just tell the children in the targeted city that it's a pinata. A few good whacks and mission accomplished.
 
2017-04-19 09:48:17 PM  
a basement ???  in florida ????????
 
2017-04-19 09:48:59 PM  

RoomFullOfMonkeys: Assuming that GMD works perfectly, it still doesn't solve the problem. North Korea could simply deliver a warhead using an orbital rocket instead of a suborbital rocket, and choose any flight path they want. They could send a bomb the long way around and attack the US from the east or from the south, and never come into range of our interceptor missiles. NK has already launched two satellites into orbit, so this is not at all an impossible task for them.


GMD?

www.scmp.com
 
2017-04-19 09:50:42 PM  
Can we also hit the 133 missiles that China will fire once they realize nuclear war has begun? What about the 6 or 7 hundred from Russia?

/I won't ask about the thousand we'll lob in the opposite direction.
 
2017-04-19 09:50:59 PM  
Trump is gonna reimburse the U.S. for building a bomb proof shelter at a location he decides to frequently visit? Right? Right...?
 
2017-04-19 09:52:47 PM  
The North Korean missile is going to launch and we're going to launch a missile to intercept it. They're both going to miss.
 
2017-04-19 09:52:56 PM  
It's not the capabilities of Best Korea that worry me so much as the fact that Trump is the only president who could conceivably lose to them.
 
2017-04-19 09:56:03 PM  

Fabric_Man: Can we also hit the 133 missiles that China will fire once they realize nuclear war has begun? What about the 6 or 7 hundred from Russia?

/I won't ask about the thousand we'll lob in the opposite direction.


It's not going to get there.  If It does, you won't have to worry about it anyway.  Fear mongering is the biggest enemy we have these days.  Fear about immigration, fear about terrorists, fear about Russia.  Stop being afraid you fool.  Stand up like a man/woman.
 
2017-04-19 09:56:09 PM  

Bucky Katt: There's nothing under Mar-a-Lago but the watertable.  It's south Florida, dude.


Whereupon many of our problems will find a watery solution. Do Eeeet!
/Let's see if this shiat floats.
 
2017-04-19 09:58:04 PM  

Bucky Katt: RoomFullOfMonkeys: Assuming that GMD works perfectly, it still doesn't solve the problem. North Korea could simply deliver a warhead using an orbital rocket instead of a suborbital rocket, and choose any flight path they want. They could send a bomb the long way around and attack the US from the east or from the south, and never come into range of our interceptor missiles. NK has already launched two satellites into orbit, so this is not at all an impossible task for them.

GMD?

[www.scmp.com image 850x619]


Ground-based Midcourse Defense - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground-Based_Midcourse_Defense
 
2017-04-19 10:03:02 PM  
Well of course they insist it will work. They're not going to say "Eh...really could be a toss up. We don't really know."
 
2017-04-19 10:06:09 PM  

Phelon Hardtimes: Fabric_Man: Can we also hit the 133 missiles that China will fire once they realize nuclear war has begun? What about the 6 or 7 hundred from Russia?

/I won't ask about the thousand we'll lob in the opposite direction.

It's not going to get there.  If It does, you won't have to worry about it anyway.  Fear mongering is the biggest enemy we have these days.  Fear about immigration, fear about terrorists, fear about Russia.  Stop being afraid you fool.  Stand up like a man/woman.


www.leolienne.com
 
2017-04-19 10:09:55 PM  

secondpsych: RoomFullOfMonkeys: Assuming that GMD works perfectly, it still doesn't solve the problem. North Korea could simply deliver a warhead using an orbital rocket instead of a suborbital rocket, and choose any flight path they want. They could send a bomb the long way around and attack the US from the east or from the south, and never come into range of our interceptor missiles. NK has already launched two satellites into orbit, so this is not at all an impossible task for them.

Isn't their "satellite" the size of a washing machine and didn't it go offline and tumble out of orbit in less than a week?


Kwangmyŏngsŏng-3 (2012)
img.fark.net

Kwangmyŏngsŏng-4 (2016)
img.fark.net

Both of them are higher than the ISS and aren't coming down any time soon. However, as far as I know neither of them showed any signs of activity after they were launched.

Mass was estimated at 100kg for the first one and 200kg for the second (from wikipedia). A 1960s W56 megaton warhead weighed 600 pounds (272 kg), and they would have more payload capacity if they were launching into a sub-orbital trajectory over North America vs. into a polar orbit.
 
2017-04-19 10:13:17 PM  

RoomFullOfMonkeys: Assuming that GMD works perfectly, it still doesn't solve the problem. North Korea could simply deliver a warhead using an orbital rocket instead of a suborbital rocket, and choose any flight path they want. They could send a bomb the long way around and attack the US from the east or from the south, and never come into range of our interceptor missiles. NK has already launched two satellites into orbit, so this is not at all an impossible task for them.


Except that not all orbits are equally challenging.  They can barely obtain any kind of orbit, they probably have zero capability to put a satellite into a retrograde orbit, or into a high enough orbit to get an apparent retrograde ground track.  Both of those would require a lot more delta-v, and thus a better rocket.
 
2017-04-19 10:13:24 PM  
Don't worry, if it's a legitimate missile we have ways of shooting that whole thing down.
 
2017-04-19 10:14:34 PM  

Phelon Hardtimes: Fabric_Man: Can we also hit the 133 missiles that China will fire once they realize nuclear war has begun? What about the 6 or 7 hundred from Russia?

/I won't ask about the thousand we'll lob in the opposite direction.

It's not going to get there.  If It does, you won't have to worry about it anyway.  Fear mongering is the biggest enemy we have these days.  Fear about immigration, fear about terrorists, fear about Russia.  Stop being afraid you fool.  Stand up like a man/woman.


This. I'm surprised fark hasn't greenlit the story about our naval strike force being nowhere as close to North Korea as was stated ( they were near Australia as per routine), and how the media has blown it so much out of proportion that North Korea (who follows are media) responds with threats.

/yes, I know that some of the confusion was in part due to the trumps spokespeople, but the job of a journalist is to find facts and not take spoken words as fact.
 
2017-04-19 10:16:42 PM  
Our*
 
2017-04-19 10:21:12 PM  

Sum Dum Gai: RoomFullOfMonkeys: Assuming that GMD works perfectly, it still doesn't solve the problem. North Korea could simply deliver a warhead using an orbital rocket instead of a suborbital rocket, and choose any flight path they want. They could send a bomb the long way around and attack the US from the east or from the south, and never come into range of our interceptor missiles. NK has already launched two satellites into orbit, so this is not at all an impossible task for them.

Except that not all orbits are equally challenging.  They can barely obtain any kind of orbit, they probably have zero capability to put a satellite into a retrograde orbit, or into a high enough orbit to get an apparent retrograde ground track.  Both of those would require a lot more delta-v, and thus a better rocket.


My basic point is that ground-based interceptors that are only located on one quadrant of the country can be circumvented with technology with which North Korea has demonstrated at least some competence. They may need to make some improvements, but they are actively working to do so. Why should we assume that they won't be able to do it five years from now?
 
2017-04-19 10:21:58 PM  

secondpsych: Phelon Hardtimes: Fabric_Man: Can we also hit the 133 missiles that China will fire once they realize nuclear war has begun? What about the 6 or 7 hundred from Russia?

/I won't ask about the thousand we'll lob in the opposite direction.

It's not going to get there.  If It does, you won't have to worry about it anyway.  Fear mongering is the biggest enemy we have these days.  Fear about immigration, fear about terrorists, fear about Russia.  Stop being afraid you fool.  Stand up like a man/woman.

This. I'm surprised fark hasn't greenlit the story about our naval strike force being nowhere as close to North Korea as was stated ( they were near Australia as per routine), and how the media has blown it so much out of proportion that North Korea (who follows are media) responds with threats.

/yes, I know that some of the confusion was in part due to the trumps spokespeople, but the job of a journalist is to find facts and not take spoken words as fact.


FARK has greenlit at least three stories about the Carl Vinson not being anywhere near North Korea.
 
2017-04-19 10:25:01 PM  

RoomFullOfMonkeys: secondpsych: Phelon Hardtimes: Fabric_Man: Can we also hit the 133 missiles that China will fire once they realize nuclear war has begun? What about the 6 or 7 hundred from Russia?

/I won't ask about the thousand we'll lob in the opposite direction.

It's not going to get there.  If It does, you won't have to worry about it anyway.  Fear mongering is the biggest enemy we have these days.  Fear about immigration, fear about terrorists, fear about Russia.  Stop being afraid you fool.  Stand up like a man/woman.

This. I'm surprised fark hasn't greenlit the story about our naval strike force being nowhere as close to North Korea as was stated ( they were near Australia as per routine), and how the media has blown it so much out of proportion that North Korea (who follows are media) responds with threats.

/yes, I know that some of the confusion was in part due to the trumps spokespeople, but the job of a journalist is to find facts and not take spoken words as fact.

FARK has greenlit at least three stories about the Carl Vinson not being anywhere near North Korea.


Oh, there it is. Two days later from when I read about.
 
2017-04-19 10:34:14 PM  

RoomFullOfMonkeys: secondpsych: Phelon Hardtimes: Fabric_Man: Can we also hit the 133 missiles that China will fire once they realize nuclear war has begun? What about the 6 or 7 hundred from Russia?

/I won't ask about the thousand we'll lob in the opposite direction.

It's not going to get there.  If It does, you won't have to worry about it anyway.  Fear mongering is the biggest enemy we have these days.  Fear about immigration, fear about terrorists, fear about Russia.  Stop being afraid you fool.  Stand up like a man/woman.

This. I'm surprised fark hasn't greenlit the story about our naval strike force being nowhere as close to North Korea as was stated ( they were near Australia as per routine), and how the media has blown it so much out of proportion that North Korea (who follows are media) responds with threats.

/yes, I know that some of the confusion was in part due to the trumps spokespeople, but the job of a journalist is to find facts and not take spoken words as fact.

FARK has greenlit at least three stories about the Carl Vinson not being anywhere near North Korea.


There was one today announcing it, and there was one from Rawstory saying China and Russia were following the Carl off the north korean Peninsula, so...whatever that's worth.
 
2017-04-19 10:37:22 PM  

RoomFullOfMonkeys: Sum Dum Gai: RoomFullOfMonkeys: Assuming that GMD works perfectly, it still doesn't solve the problem. North Korea could simply deliver a warhead using an orbital rocket instead of a suborbital rocket, and choose any flight path they want. They could send a bomb the long way around and attack the US from the east or from the south, and never come into range of our interceptor missiles. NK has already launched two satellites into orbit, so this is not at all an impossible task for them.

Except that not all orbits are equally challenging.  They can barely obtain any kind of orbit, they probably have zero capability to put a satellite into a retrograde orbit, or into a high enough orbit to get an apparent retrograde ground track.  Both of those would require a lot more delta-v, and thus a better rocket.

My basic point is that ground-based interceptors that are only located on one quadrant of the country can be circumvented with technology with which North Korea has demonstrated at least some competence. They may need to make some improvements, but they are actively working to do so. Why should we assume that they won't be able to do it five years from now?


Because the leap from "barely able to attain any orbit even with a tiny payload" to "being able to enter a very technically difficult orbit with a significant payload" is huge, and if they had that level of technology, they will have already developed easier ways to defeat a missile defense system.  They're far more than five years away from that level of technology.
 
2017-04-19 10:44:07 PM  

Sum Dum Gai: RoomFullOfMonkeys: Sum Dum Gai: RoomFullOfMonkeys: Assuming that GMD works perfectly, it still doesn't solve the problem. North Korea could simply deliver a warhead using an orbital rocket instead of a suborbital rocket, and choose any flight path they want. They could send a bomb the long way around and attack the US from the east or from the south, and never come into range of our interceptor missiles. NK has already launched two satellites into orbit, so this is not at all an impossible task for them.

Except that not all orbits are equally challenging.  They can barely obtain any kind of orbit, they probably have zero capability to put a satellite into a retrograde orbit, or into a high enough orbit to get an apparent retrograde ground track.  Both of those would require a lot more delta-v, and thus a better rocket.

My basic point is that ground-based interceptors that are only located on one quadrant of the country can be circumvented with technology with which North Korea has demonstrated at least some competence. They may need to make some improvements, but they are actively working to do so. Why should we assume that they won't be able to do it five years from now?

Because the leap from "barely able to attain any orbit even with a tiny payload" to "being able to enter a very technically difficult orbit with a significant payload" is huge, and if they had that level of technology, they will have already developed easier ways to defeat a missile defense system.  They're far more than five years away from that level of technology.


From my previous link for their 2012 launch:

The orbit data is extracted from the following two-line orbital elements,
1 39026U 12072A 17108.77191634 +.00002533 +00000-0 +10128-3 0 9995
2 39026 097.2274 128.6453 0041660 029.8983 330.4622 15.25205729240877

Epoch (UTC):18 April 2017 18:31:33
Eccentricity:0.0041660
inclination:97.2274°
perigee height:461 km
apogee height:519 km

right ascension of ascending node:128.6453°
argument of perigee:29.8983°
revolutions per day:15.25205729
mean anomaly at epoch:330.4622°
orbit number at epoch:24087
 
2017-04-19 10:44:22 PM  

Phelon Hardtimes: President Trumps "really all White House".


FYI, This was the FIRST club in Palm Beach to admit both Blacks and Jews.   Trump has a long history of anit-racism.    suck it.
 
2017-04-19 10:45:31 PM  

Scarlioni: The Norks might be able to hit Hawaii or the west coast... bastions of communism this nation would be better off without.

/Sarcasm


They really only have to hit Seoul, any other part of So. Korea, or of course target rich Japan to screw up the region and kill/irradiate millions of people and countryside. So easy peasy.

Should the President comply with and respect any/all treaties we have with our allies? Or write sternly worded letters to the UN?
 
2017-04-19 10:52:08 PM  
Why shoot down something we can detonate on the launch pad?
 
2017-04-19 10:52:41 PM  

dognose4: Phelon Hardtimes: President Trumps "really all White House".

FYI, This was the FIRST club in Palm Beach to admit both Blacks and Jews.   Trump has a long history of anit-racism.    suck it.


FYI, you have no sense of humor.

Have a nice day.
 
2017-04-19 10:53:05 PM  

Scarlioni: The Norks might be able to hit Hawaii or the west coast... bastions of communism this nation would be better off without.

/Sarcasm


Oh no, if they hit Portland where we will get our snark?
 
2017-04-19 11:19:39 PM  
It's been done before. Have ye no faith?

i.imgur.com
 
2017-04-19 11:24:14 PM  
I realize Submitter is only kidding but an underground bunker in Florida? I don't think even Trump would be that stupid.
 
2017-04-19 11:29:33 PM  

rev.love_revolver: Scarlioni: The Norks might be able to hit Hawaii or the west coast... bastions of communism this nation would be better off without.

/Sarcasm

Oh no, if they hit Portland where we will get our snark?


From Seattle or Austin or Brooklyn or...
 
2017-04-19 11:57:23 PM  
What's with the "top generals" nonsense?
 
2017-04-20 12:28:49 AM  
Plenty of us want Florida to be bombed...we don't need some stupid, liberal hype to do so.
 
2017-04-20 12:29:15 AM  
Calling America "The Homeland" is still as farking creepy as ever.
 
2017-04-20 12:44:12 AM  
Missile defense is a dicey thing.  The best defense is the promise of retaliation.
 
2017-04-20 01:30:55 AM  

fragMasterFlash: I realize Submitter is only kidding but an underground bunker in Florida? I don't think even Trump would be that stupid.


Maybe he likes scuba diving.
 
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