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(Entertainment Weekly)   Netflix says those 'sexist' Dave Chappelle specials and 'racist' Iron Fist series are both big hits   ( ew.com) divider line
    More: Interesting, Chris Rock, Chappelle stand-up specials, Iron Fist, Dave Chappelle, comedian Gad Elmaleh, controversial Netflix titles, latest super-hero title, ultra-secret streaming company  
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1332 clicks; posted to Entertainment » on 18 Apr 2017 at 1:38 PM (26 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2017-04-18 12:53:13 PM  
Controversy sells.
 
2017-04-18 01:17:36 PM  
What exactly was everyone's issue with Iron Fist?  It didn't strike me as particularly offensive in any way and was certainly better throughout than the recent seasons of Daredevil and Luke Cage (which both fell apart in the 2nd half).
 
2017-04-18 01:20:30 PM  
The Chappelle specials were two of the best examples of stand up comedy I have ever seen.
 
2017-04-18 01:24:01 PM  
Dave Chappelle offended people? Why, I'm just ... shocked. SHOCKED, I say!
 
2017-04-18 01:28:43 PM  

OptionC: What exactly was everyone's issue with Iron Fist?  It didn't strike me as particularly offensive in any way and was certainly better throughout than the recent seasons of Daredevil and Luke Cage (which both fell apart in the 2nd half).


It was boring, which is the worst thing a superhero show or movie can be.  (See also Fan4Stick.)  There was no theme to the show.  Daredevil is about being on both sides of the law.  JJ is about rape, PTSD, and alcoholism.  Luke Cage is about Harlem and letting Alfrie Woodard BLOW UP THE DAMNED SHIP!!  Iron Fist was about, I dunno, the meaning of family?  Except everyone on the show was an asshole.  Even Johnny was a dick.
 
2017-04-18 01:36:05 PM  
Maybe I'm just not as easily offended as I should be, but I didn't find Chappelle's specials to be sexist. He talks about trans people, and he is not as knowledgeable as he might be; but he isn't without empathy. And he does say at one point that white women who equate women's rights with the struggle black people have endured bother him, and he has a point.

I haven't watched Iron Fist.
 
2017-04-18 01:45:17 PM  
If you want a comedian who doesn't offend anyone, you wind up with Jay Leno.
 
2017-04-18 01:53:18 PM  

OptionC: What exactly was everyone's issue with Iron Fist?  It didn't strike me as particularly offensive in any way and was certainly better throughout than the recent seasons of Daredevil and Luke Cage (which both fell apart in the 2nd half).


The issue with Iron Fist is that it is racist to cast a white guy to play a white character who does kung-fu, but demanding a character who does kung-fu be asian is not racist because reasons, and furthermore.
 
2017-04-18 01:53:36 PM  

OptionC: What exactly was everyone's issue with Iron Fist?  It didn't strike me as particularly offensive in any way and was certainly better throughout than the recent seasons of Daredevil and Luke Cage (which both fell apart in the 2nd half).


Some people wanted a different flavor of racist caricature and it rustled their jimmies not to get it.
 
2017-04-18 01:57:29 PM  

FreeBirdInTheHand: Maybe I'm just not as easily offended as I should be, but I didn't find Chappelle's specials to be sexist. He talks about trans people, and he is not as knowledgeable as he might be; but he isn't without empathy. And he does say at one point that white women who equate women's rights with the struggle black people have endured bother him, and he has a point.

I haven't watched Iron Fist.


I thought that was the most offensive yet thoughtful bit where he sees the black struggle being glibly pushed aside by people claiming to understand oppression as well or better than a black man in America.
 
2017-04-18 01:59:33 PM  
Iron Fist wasn't racist. It was boring. Chappelle's specials were a stand up comedy routine, if some people didn't get offended they wouldn't be entertaining.
 
2017-04-18 02:01:36 PM  

jj325: The Chappelle specials were two of the best examples of stand up comedy I have ever seen.


I found the first one to be OK but not great but I'll agree on the second one.

Then again maybe I was still sour after Bill Burr shiat the bed so hard in his recent special and that tainted the first Chappelle special.
 
2017-04-18 02:04:36 PM  
My problem with Iron Fist is that the fight choreography was bad.

My problem with the Chappelle specials is that they were too short.
 
2017-04-18 02:05:23 PM  

Egoy3k: jj325: The Chappelle specials were two of the best examples of stand up comedy I have ever seen.

I found the first one to be OK but not great but I'll agree on the second one.

Then again maybe I was still sour after Bill Burr shiat the bed so hard in his recent special and that tainted the first Chappelle special.


Cool ... I thought it was just me.
Bill Burr has become his own dad.
 
2017-04-18 02:05:40 PM  
Glad Iron Fist did well, I want those Marvel series to keep going. Still gotta watch MST3K.
 
2017-04-18 02:06:55 PM  

Egoy3k: Iron Fist wasn't racist. It was boring. Chappelle's specials were a stand up comedy routine, if some people didn't get offended they wouldn't be entertaining.


I've only made it halfway through Iron Fist so far.  The pacing is just too slow.  Each episode needs to be about 10-15 minutes shorter and the season should probably be at least 3 episodes shorter (which is true of every Marvel series to date).
 
2017-04-18 02:11:01 PM  

Egoy3k: Iron Fist wasn't racist. It was boring. Chappelle's specials were a stand up comedy routine, if some people didn't get offended they wouldn't be entertaining.


It's not so much offended as disappointed. Dave has lost. . . something. The bits about gay and trans people were stunningly clueless. If you want offensive, controversial, and insightful, go watch Jim Jeffries.
 
2017-04-18 02:12:08 PM  

NeoCortex42: Egoy3k: Iron Fist wasn't racist. It was boring. Chappelle's specials were a stand up comedy routine, if some people didn't get offended they wouldn't be entertaining.

I've only made it halfway through Iron Fist so far.  The pacing is just too slow.  Each episode needs to be about 10-15 minutes shorter and the season should probably be at least 3 episodes shorter (which is true of every Marvel series to date).


I told my wife she doesn't need to wait for me to to watch the rest of it around episode 8 I was playing cell phone games and cleaning the house while it was playing for a few episodes before that.

Dr. Kefarkian: Cool ... I thought it was just me.
Bill Burr has become his own dad.


Not just you. My coworker who is a huge Bill Burr fan feels the same way too.
 
2017-04-18 02:12:55 PM  

Dr. Kefarkian: Bill Burr has become his own dad


F is for family grew old about 2 episodes in
 
2017-04-18 02:14:33 PM  
What what the point of Iron Fist? I'm not even sure I'll finish it. Why would you take a character who is a martial arts master with farking punching powers and spend 4+ episodes watching him go through legal bullshiat to get his company back? The Rand Corp is the least interesting part of the Iron Fist story.
 
2017-04-18 02:15:41 PM  
White people were almost past the "I just spent a year abroad and now won't shut up about yoga" stereotype.  Thanks, Iron Fist.
 
2017-04-18 02:15:45 PM  

foo monkey: OptionC: What exactly was everyone's issue with Iron Fist?  It didn't strike me as particularly offensive in any way and was certainly better throughout than the recent seasons of Daredevil and Luke Cage (which both fell apart in the 2nd half).

It was boring, which is the worst thing a superhero show or movie can be.  (See also Fan4Stick.)  There was no theme to the show.  Daredevil is about being on both sides of the law.  JJ is about rape, PTSD, and alcoholism.  Luke Cage is about Harlem and letting Alfrie Woodard BLOW UP THE DAMNED SHIP!!  Iron Fist was about, I dunno, the meaning of family?  Except everyone on the show was an asshole.  Even Johnny was a dick.


More heroin for Ward.

That was the theme of Iron Fist.
 
2017-04-18 02:16:55 PM  

OptionC: What exactly was everyone's issue with Iron Fist?


The writing was shiat.
 
2017-04-18 02:18:03 PM  

BorgiaGinz: Egoy3k: Iron Fist wasn't racist. It was boring. Chappelle's specials were a stand up comedy routine, if some people didn't get offended they wouldn't be entertaining.

It's not so much offended as disappointed. Dave has lost. . . something. The bits about gay and trans people were stunningly clueless. If you want offensive, controversial, and insightful, go watch Jim Jeffries.


Did you watch both of them? I felt that way about the first one but I think the second one almost got back to where he was with the 3AM in the ghetto or my white friend bits which are IMO two of the funniest stand up bits ever.
 
2017-04-18 02:19:04 PM  

Oysterman: White people were almost past the "I just spent a year abroad and now won't shut up about yoga" stereotype.  Thanks, Iron Fist.


Seriously.

Danny comes off as the frat guy who took a semester of a world religions survey course and suddenly thinks he's an expert.
 
2017-04-18 02:19:11 PM  

Egoy3k: Then again maybe I was still sour after Bill Burr shiat the bed so hard in his recent special


This. Jim Norton still got it though.
 
2017-04-18 02:20:47 PM  

Shostie: foo monkey: OptionC: What exactly was everyone's issue with Iron Fist?  It didn't strike me as particularly offensive in any way and was certainly better throughout than the recent seasons of Daredevil and Luke Cage (which both fell apart in the 2nd half).

It was boring, which is the worst thing a superhero show or movie can be.  (See also Fan4Stick.)  There was no theme to the show.  Daredevil is about being on both sides of the law.  JJ is about rape, PTSD, and alcoholism.  Luke Cage is about Harlem and letting Alfrie Woodard BLOW UP THE DAMNED SHIP!!  Iron Fist was about, I dunno, the meaning of family?  Except everyone on the show was an asshole.  Even Johnny was a dick.

More heroin for Ward.

That was the theme of Iron Fist.


It's a metaphor for the opioid epidemic!  Ward's tragic transition from addictive prescription painkillers to synthetic heroin made by ancient Chinese demon ladies.  Even the most privileged and successful can be addicts.  Brilliant!
 
2017-04-18 02:20:49 PM  
Protip:

Overusing  accusative adjectives like controversial, sexist, racist, biased, and/or bigoted diminishes the effective negative value they have and eventually makes Those who hear them jaded and apathetic.

Keeping people on high-offensive alert does not diminish behavior, it only emboldens it.  Rather than call it out each time, save the energy and remember each individual instance and prepare to list it out when the offending group protests its innocence.
 
2017-04-18 02:21:40 PM  
You people gave so many 1, 2 and 3 star ratings to Iron Fist they scrapped their entire algorithm that they spent years perfecting for a primitive thumbs up/down system. Hope you're happy.
 
2017-04-18 02:21:56 PM  
Seriously, though, they should kill Danny and give the Iron Fist power to Ward so we can watch him literally punch holes through walls for more heroin.
 
2017-04-18 02:25:08 PM  

Egoy3k: jj325: The Chappelle specials were two of the best examples of stand up comedy I have ever seen.

I found the first one to be OK but not great but I'll agree on the second one.

Then again maybe I was still sour after Bill Burr shiat the bed so hard in his recent special and that tainted the first Chappelle special.


The first one was so bad, I didn't watch the second one.  You're right about Burr too.  That was absolute garbage.

And yes, Iron Fist was totally boring.  I got tired of him whining all the time too.

/will watch the second Chappelle tonight
 
2017-04-18 02:25:18 PM  

FortyHams: What what the point of Iron Fist? I'm not even sure I'll finish it. Why would you take a character who is a martial arts master with farking punching powers and spend 4+ episodes watching him go through legal bullshiat to get his company back? The Rand Corp is the least interesting part of the Iron Fist story.


Whether for better or for worse, it's best to look at the first seasons of the Netflix shows as "origin stories".  Because they're not single episodes, they can delve into the backstories and more firmly establish stuff.

For Danny, his importance to The Defenders is 20% "punching things real hard", and 80% "let me get my checkbook".  Without establishing why he's on to board at Rand but also doesn't really have a day job there but they still want him around, that gets a little too Gary Stu.  Plus, Rand does become important occasionally, and they need to have that established early for it to do so.

If they get a Season 2 after The Defenders, I'd hope they'd focus mostly on Danny and K'un-Lun, and just accept that Rand's covering his bills.  But I understand why that stuff was there.  It also tied into the "the Hand has always been involved in your life, Danny" plot thread they've laid.
 
kab
2017-04-18 02:25:38 PM  
The Chappelle shows are the funniest standup that have been on Netflix in a very long while.

Haven't seen Iron Fist yet.   Can't even get through Jessica whatsername.
 
2017-04-18 02:29:59 PM  
I'm surprised nobody is offended by Louis C.K's stand-up special. Mind you, the problem with being offended by it is that nothing mentioned in it is even remotely safe-for-work. I loved it and I can't talk about it with any specificity.
 
2017-04-18 02:33:34 PM  

Thorak: FortyHams: What what the point of Iron Fist? I'm not even sure I'll finish it. Why would you take a character who is a martial arts master with farking punching powers and spend 4+ episodes watching him go through legal bullshiat to get his company back? The Rand Corp is the least interesting part of the Iron Fist story.

Whether for better or for worse, it's best to look at the first seasons of the Netflix shows as "origin stories".  Because they're not single episodes, they can delve into the backstories and more firmly establish stuff.

For Danny, his importance to The Defenders is 20% "punching things real hard", and 80% "let me get my checkbook".  Without establishing why he's on to board at Rand but also doesn't really have a day job there but they still want him around, that gets a little too Gary Stu.  Plus, Rand does become important occasionally, and they need to have that established early for it to do so.

If they get a Season 2 after The Defenders, I'd hope they'd focus mostly on Danny and K'un-Lun, and just accept that Rand's covering his bills.  But I understand why that stuff was there.  It also tied into the "the Hand has always been involved in your life, Danny" plot thread they've laid.


They can establish that he's rich without making me sit through 4+ episodes of boardrooms and lawyers. If he even had a stated motivation for being back in NY that required him to have his family's money I could sit through it a little better.

The writers on Iron Fist are asking people to wade through a lot of shiat before they get to anything interesting, if it ever shows up.
 
2017-04-18 02:35:21 PM  

kab: The Chappelle shows are the funniest standup that have been on Netflix in a very long while.

Haven't seen Iron Fist yet.   Can't even get through Jessica whatsername.


Don't bother with Iron Fist. It was so awful I started drooling.

Jessica was better, though I'd recommend going back to the B in Apt 23.
 
kab
2017-04-18 02:37:38 PM  
Egoy3k:
Then again maybe I was still sour after Bill Burr shiat the bed so hard in his recent special and that tainted the first Chappelle special.

The most recent ones by Burr, CK and Schumer have all been pretty unwatchable.   Even Burr's "I'm Sorry You Feel That Way" wasn't up to his usual standards.
 
XSV
2017-04-18 02:40:46 PM  
The Mrs. and I are about 4-5 episodes in on Iron Fist, it's not the most boring thing in the world. Definitely don't see anything worthy of outrage though.

My main thing from the first 2 episodes was "DOES NO ONE ON THIS SHOW KNOW HOW TO HAVE A CONVERSATION??" had to resort to a bag of M&Ms apparently to figure anything out.
 
2017-04-18 02:49:02 PM  
You mean to tell me the people who spend all day being outraged on the internet aren't consumers of the products they are outraged about and instead have just created an Outrage Market for clickbait articles and internet attention? I'm outraged!
 
2017-04-18 02:49:03 PM  
NeoCortex42:

I've only made it halfway through Iron Fist so far.  The pacing is just too slow.

That was my only problem is the first half is slow. The show does pick up and has a decent ending.
They spend a lot of time on the backstory. Also, yes, Danny is incredibly naive. He has grown up in a Buddhist Monastery. His life before that was one of privilege.
To quote Black Widow, "James Kirk, you know nothing"
 
2017-04-18 02:52:09 PM  

Moodybastard: To quote Black Widow, "James Kirk, you know nothing"


Now I want that on a t-shirt.
 
2017-04-18 02:52:58 PM  
I've watched neither. Subby seems to be implying that something can't be racist or sexist if it's a big hit. Maybe I'm not getting the headline?
 
2017-04-18 02:53:24 PM  
I live under a rock or something and I'd never seen anything that Dave Chappelle has done up until a couple of days ago.

One of his specials popped up on Netflix so I thought, "Golly, people sure love this guy.  I bet this will be super funny."  I watched about 20 minutes.  There were a couple of chuckles but I didn't see what the big deal was.  I mean, I might finish it later but I got bored.
 
2017-04-18 02:55:25 PM  
I thought Chapelle's stand up was pretty decent. Not as great as Killing em Softly, but that was one of the best stand up specials of all time. I also thought Louis CK's new one was great. Bill Burr's new one didn't seem as awful as everyone seems to think, but I never really loved him (at least his stand up - his podcast cracks me up) in the first place, so it seemed about the same to me.  Amy Schumer's was god awful, and Kevin Hart's was unwatchable.

I like all these people, and think they have all made good-great stuff in the past. There's just so much out there that it's hard to push through something that is just ok.

/not sure what my point was
 
2017-04-18 02:59:34 PM  

foo monkey: OptionC: What exactly was everyone's issue with Iron Fist?  It didn't strike me as particularly offensive in any way and was certainly better throughout than the recent seasons of Daredevil and Luke Cage (which both fell apart in the 2nd half).

It was boring, which is the worst thing a superhero show or movie can be.  (See also Fan4Stick.)  There was no theme to the show.  Daredevil is about being on both sides of the law.  JJ is about rape, PTSD, and alcoholism.  Luke Cage is about Harlem and letting Alfrie Woodard BLOW UP THE DAMNED SHIP!!  Iron Fist was about, I dunno, the meaning of family?  Except everyone on the show was an asshole.  Even Johnny was a dick.


My biggest problem was that Danny Rand, raised and trained in martial arts, would walk into someone else school, start trying to take over a class, and then call the sensei/teacher down in front of her students. Most any martial artists worth anything have respect for other peoples schools and would never do such a thing.  You have a problem, you take it to the instructor.  In private.  We know why she didn't cut ties with him right then and there (because plot), but it still bothered the shiat out of me.
 
2017-04-18 02:59:59 PM  

Nurglitch: I'm surprised nobody is offended by Louis C.K's stand-up special. Mind you, the problem with being offended by it is that nothing mentioned in it is even remotely safe-for-work. I loved it and I can't talk about it with any specificity.


I've watched it twice and laughed just as hard the second time. And while I'm sure there are people who are (or would be) terribly offended, I do not think that would faze him even a little bit.
 
2017-04-18 03:03:21 PM  
Also, how does it work that Danny Rand can take out a hallway full of ax wielding dudes but gets kicked around by one dude with brass knuckles in the hospital scene?
 
2017-04-18 03:03:32 PM  

OptionC: What exactly was everyone's issue with Iron Fist?  It didn't strike me as particularly offensive in any way and was certainly better throughout than the recent seasons of Daredevil and Luke Cage (which both fell apart in the 2nd half).


It caught the eye of the perpetually aggrieved during its production stage, which was close to the whole #OscarsSoWhite thing. They were damned if they did anything but shut it all down at that point. Change the protagonist to be Asian and they're feeding the stereotype of the mystic Easterner who's good at kung fu, do what they did and keep the protagonist as a Caucasian and they're guilty of White Savior-ing, whitewashing/yellowface and the Mystic Journey to the East trope (which is stupid because the show is based on the comic, which was a send-up of the kind of classic kung fu movies where such tropes and cliches originated). Some people just have to have something to yell about.
 
2017-04-18 03:04:12 PM  

kab: Egoy3k:
Then again maybe I was still sour after Bill Burr shiat the bed so hard in his recent special and that tainted the first Chappelle special.

The most recent ones by Burr, CK and Schumer have all been pretty unwatchable.   Even Burr's "I'm Sorry You Feel That Way" wasn't up to his usual standards.


Schumer's new one was abysmal, and I usually like her.  She's been telling that "I heard the one word you don't want people calling your nude pictures:  Brave!" joke for years now.  CK's special wasn't much better.  I fell asleep while I was watching it.  I still go back to Ali Wong's show though.
 
2017-04-18 03:05:55 PM  

FortyHams: Also, how does it work that Danny Rand can take out a hallway full of ax wielding dudes but gets kicked around by one dude with brass knuckles in the hospital scene?


http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ConservationOfNinjutsu
 
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