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(Geeks Are Sexy)   Group who made cheat bot for Overwatch slapped with $8.6 million fine   ( geeksaresexy.net) divider line
    More: Misc, copyright infringement, United States Congress, Supreme Court of the United States, United States federal courts, Blizzard, Blizzard games, Federal government of the United States, Copyright  
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2085 clicks; posted to Geek » on 17 Apr 2017 at 3:38 PM (26 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



27 Comments     (+0 »)
 
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2017-04-17 02:25:57 PM  
Good.
 
2017-04-17 02:29:15 PM  
If you have to resort to cheats for an online FPS, you should probably save your parents the money and just kill yourself.
 
2017-04-17 05:23:21 PM  

Lando Lincoln: If you have to resort to cheats for an online FPS, you should probably save your parents the money and just kill yourself.


I'm fine with being poor at FPS play, but what satisfaction is there in using a bot to cheat?

Why not just play little kids at tic tac toe or something?
 
2017-04-17 05:32:04 PM  
I don't believe this, I've witnessed nothing but pure sportsmanship in online games
 
2017-04-17 05:43:48 PM  

SpectroBoy: Lando Lincoln: If you have to resort to cheats for an online FPS, you should probably save your parents the money and just kill yourself.

I'm fine with being poor at FPS play, but what satisfaction is there in using a bot to cheat?

Why not just play little kids at tic tac toe or something?


Some folks just like seeing that "VICTORY" light up the screen, no matter what.

The hilarious part is how many people on the Overwatch forums will chip in with "I've played a thousand rounds of this game, and I've never seen a cheat bot," or "that character can't be botted because they use non-hitscan weapons."

They're either monumentally unobservant, or one of the cheaters. I see them all of the time - people tracking you through walls on the kill cam (without the in-game IR effect), or someone who hits 100% of their shots, then turns and dumps a couple of magazines into the floor to keep their stats low.
 
2017-04-17 06:00:02 PM  
Whether Bossland will actually pay up remains to be seen, but in the meantime it is also barred from marketing or selling the relevant cheats within the US.Whew! Man, I bet that'll stop 'em!
 
2017-04-17 06:01:46 PM  
botting's no good, but how is it copyright infringement?
 
2017-04-17 06:07:35 PM  

evilmousse: botting's no good, but how is it copyright infringement?


not sure how it works on Overwatch, but on certain other games the cheat/bot/hack actually changes the client-side code of the game itself.
 
2017-04-17 06:11:52 PM  
This is why "e-sports" will never be a thing.  If the very mechanics of the game are subject to copyright, there can be no experimentation, no evolution.  We'd still be playing with leather helmets and handlebar mustaches if these guys had their way.
 
2017-04-17 06:13:33 PM  

Olympic Trolling Judge: This is why "e-sports" will never be a thing.  If the very mechanics of the game are subject to copyright, there can be no experimentation, no evolution.  We'd still be playing with leather helmets and handlebar mustaches if these guys had their way.


If I'm seeing e-sports being broadcast on cable TV, it's already a "thing".  A silly thing perhaps, but a thing all the same.
 
2017-04-17 06:44:32 PM  
Cheating makes the game worse for everyone, and these guys should be sued by Blizzard for loss of revenue due to driving away customers. Blizzard should also, obviously, terminate users who use the software for violating the terms of service.

However, Blizzard should not be suing these guys for copyright infringement. That's just farking stupid; Blizzard doesn't own the cheat software, and if they win the case, then Blizzard is on the hook for its usage because it demanded that a court affirm that Blizzard owns the copyright to the cheat software. Even the "no reverse engineering" clauses of the DMCA are more suitable than copyright infringement.
 
2017-04-17 06:50:09 PM  
As bad as botting is for the player base of any competitive game, I'm really not sure this is the right way to go about it.  From a quick search, it appears that this particular bot program is merely an overlay that reads data from memory that the player wouldn't normally have access to (i.e. a wallhack).

If this is the case, then Blizzard's claim that the company is modifying and reselling its IP (i.e. the source code) is complete bullshiat.  That logic would also apply to people that make trainers for completely single player games, where botting is harmless because it doesn't affect anyone else's experience.  Would it be alright if those people got sued for millions?

That said, let us take a moment to laugh at all the people who paid $200 for a wallhack.  If you're gonna cheat at a competitive game, why even bother playing?

cirby: The hilarious part is how many people on the Overwatch forums will chip in with "I've played a thousand rounds of this game, and I've never seen a cheat bot," or "that character can't be botted because they use non-hitscan weapons."

They're either monumentally unobservant, or one of the cheaters. I see them all of the time - people tracking you through walls on the kill cam (without the in-game IR effect), or someone who hits 100% of their shots, then turns and dumps a couple of magazines into the floor to keep their stats low.


Back when I still played multiplayer FPS (CoD 4 MW), every other game there was someone accusing me of wallhacking because I would track people through walls.  They, of course, would run behind a wall and then keep running in the same direction or toward the nearest egress.  Even if the wall was too thick to shoot through, I would still track their assumed trajectory to maintain timing for when they emerged the other side.  I was also often accused of aimbotting after lucky shots.  And i've seen people who I knew weren't botting do very suspicious things as a result of lag compensation.  In general, people would latch onto the single occasion where I did something really cool but would have no idea that I messed up the previous 99 times.

Unless it's a bot from the old days where the player is clearly omniscient and instantly snaps the reticle to the next target, determining whether someone is a bot simply from a single short killcam clip isn't going to be very accurate.  Most people want to get right back into the game anyway, so they're certainly not going to scrutinize every kill cam unless there's something consistently suspicious going on.

Also, in CoD there was a great variation in botters depending on the time of day and the game type.  Sometimes there would be a botter in every game and sometimes I would play dozens of games without seeing any.  I certainly believe that there are players that have simply never seen an obvious bot, especially if they don't play during peak hours.
 
2017-04-17 07:21:38 PM  
yelmrog
evilmousse: botting's no good, but how is it copyright infringement?

not sure how it works on Overwatch, but on certain other games the cheat/bot/hack actually changes the client-side code of the game itself.


Yeah, that's probably the angle.
But even so..that feels like a photographer is suing a manufacturer of fancy picture frames because some mutual customers are sticking the prints they bought into a frame which covers part of the picture.


Shiat, even the wikipedia page for "derivative work" links a very similar sounding case in its section about derivative works and fair use:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewis_Galoob_Toys,_Inc._v._Nintendo_of_​A​merica,_Inc.
"..was a court case which established the rights of users to modify copyrighted works for their own use.[1] The case revolved around whether or not the Game Genie device which could modify video games in real time constituted creating a derivative work."
 
2017-04-17 07:53:28 PM  

The Voice of Doom: Shiat, even the wikipedia page for "derivative work" links a very similar sounding case in its section about derivative works and fair use:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewis_Galoob_Toys,_Inc._v._Nintendo_of_A​merica,_Inc.
"..was a court case which established the rights of users to modify copyrighted works for their own use.[1] The case revolved around whether or not the Game Genie device which could modify video games in real time constituted creating a derivative work."


Sounds like Bossland had a solid defense.  Not sure why they didn't use it at trial, but maybe they'll bring it up as part of an appeal.  (In which case, I take back what I said earlier, but shame on Blizzard for even considering it.)
 
2017-04-17 08:35:39 PM  
I don't get the appeal of endless fps arena games.

It's fun a few times, just like paintball, but I get bored after a dozen rounds, just like paintball.

They need a some new contests.
 
2017-04-17 08:39:06 PM  

falkone32: Back when I still played multiplayer FPS (CoD 4 MW), every other game there was someone accusing me of wallhacking because I would track people through walls.  They, of course, would run behind a wall and then keep running in the same direction or toward the nearest egress.  Even if the wall was too thick to shoot through, I would still track their assumed trajectory to maintain timing for when they emerged the other side.  I was also often accused of aimbotting after lucky shots.  And i've seen people who I knew weren't botting do very suspicious things as a result of lag compensation.  In general, people would latch onto the single occasion where I did something really cool but would have no idea that I messed up the previous 99 times.

Unless it's a bot from the old days where the player is clearly omniscient and instantly snaps the reticle to the next target, determining whether someone is a bot simply from a single short killcam clip isn't going to be very accurate.  Most people want to get right back into the game anyway, so they're certainly not going to scrutinize every kill cam unless there's something consistently suspicious going on.


Unfortunately, that's not what I'm talking about (or especially true). For example, someone tracking me through the wall at the first gate in the Hollywood map when they didn't see me in the first place, along with shifting back and forth as I jump around.

You can do a lot of basic tracking by sound, but it's just flat impossible to believe that the Hanzo on the other team (who NEVER uses his Sonic Arrow) keeps getting one-shot headshots while tracking through walls, at a distance. That's a dead giveaway for Hanzos - lots of no-warning headshots like that due to wallhacks, but they forget to shoot the sonic one for the whole match.

There was a Roadhog one that did the same thing for a while, but it disappeared when they changed his hook.

Not-quite-smart bots are also very obvious, like the Pharah one that kept shooting my Junkrat mines and traps out of midair from medium distance when I tossed them out from behind a wall (different angles, odd timings). Fully automatic fire control. She finally shot me out of midair when I did a mine jump, I called her on it, and she quit the round without comment.

There was also a Soldier 76 hack (before they changed him) where the bot would stutter-fire, making sure that every round was a "first shot" and eliminating bullet spread. You could actually hear that one.
 
2017-04-17 09:19:08 PM  
So how do you guys rate this strategy against cheating software, IE suing cheating businesses to the ground?

There is other strategies like: Denying cheating ever happens in THEIR game. ( Like Gaigin with Warthunder ). Move along Komrad, nothing to see here. Also Putin is no gay.

Or even not commenting on cheating altogether, like many other games do?
Or perhaps just letting every sys admin tag a "cheater" forever?
 
2017-04-17 10:24:16 PM  

SpectroBoy: Lando Lincoln: If you have to resort to cheats for an online FPS, you should probably save your parents the money and just kill yourself.

I'm fine with being poor at FPS play, but what satisfaction is there in using a bot to cheat?

Why not just play little kids at tic tac toe or something?


It's the same as the desperate tryhard trolls you see online.  They get a puerile little joy out of pissing off people online that cannot retaliate directly against them.  You know, the whole "I'm being bad online, and mom doesn't even know!" schtick.
 
2017-04-17 10:31:30 PM  

Xarian0: Even the "no reverse engineering" clauses of the DMCA are more suitable than copyright infringement.


Um... aren't violations of the reverse engineering clause "copyright infringement" by definition?  It's the third word of the acronym, man.

Also, a lot of the cheats take the original product, modify it in a non-transformative fashion, then display it to the end user, and charge for the privilege.  That is literally the dictionary definition of copyright infringement, so I'm not sure they need to resort to the part of the DMCA you're referring to here, this would be clear copyright violation even in the 1950s.
 
2017-04-18 05:09:31 AM  

evilmousse: botting's no good, but how is it copyright infringement?


Did you RTFA?
 
2017-04-18 07:01:14 AM  

evilmousse: botting's no good, but how is it copyright infringement?


According to the article, the court decided that in effect it modified the code of the original product and therefore created an unauthorized "copy".
 
2017-04-18 08:27:03 AM  

yelmrog: Olympic Trolling Judge: This is why "e-sports" will never be a thing.  If the very mechanics of the game are subject to copyright, there can be no experimentation, no evolution.  We'd still be playing with leather helmets and handlebar mustaches if these guys had their way.

If I'm seeing e-sports being broadcast on cable TV, it's already a "thing".  A silly thing perhaps, but a thing all the same.


The Overwatch World Cup starts next week I believe!
 
2017-04-18 09:44:52 AM  

SpectroBoy: Lando Lincoln: If you have to resort to cheats for an online FPS, you should probably save your parents the money and just kill yourself.

I'm fine with being poor at FPS play, but what satisfaction is there in using a bot to cheat?

Why not just play little kids at tic tac toe or something?


Years back, I ran a QWTF league that had a few dozen clans in it and such. Nothing big, no money or prizes involved, just fun competition for a few years. However, the number of people that had to, over the years, be banned from league play for cheating (usually wallhacks - was great seeing a demo of someone throw a grenade right into a wall that would bounce back at them because they couldn't see the wall is there) ridiculously high. Some claimed they had only used the cheat in public server play but "forgot" to turn it off (suuuure), but most were quite defiant about it. "Who cares, it's just a game." "You're the one being so serious if you care about this stuff". Etc. They had no problems talking smack about how they 0wnz0r3d someone on a public server when their cheat let them win, though.

These are people that, if they could get away with it in Real Life(tm) and wouldn't be detected, would go to a gym with, like, inflatable "weights" that said "100 kg" on them in big letters so everyone could see how much they could bench or whatever, and they'd have no problem bragging about how AMAZING they are, then have an excuse ready for why they couldn't actually demonstrate said strength in other situations (makes me think of Spongebob and his Anchor Arms).

It's not about being better, stronger, faster (that requires effort). It's about being able to SAY you're better without actually having to put in that effort, then ridicule the people who actually do put in effort as tryhard losers.
 
2017-04-18 11:37:55 AM  
I think fining someone who makes a cheat bot is pretty darn lame.

I know it sucks that your massive versus game community is being screwed over. Too bad. That's the paradox you get for being so successful.

Go cry me a river.
 
2017-04-18 01:25:22 PM  

Perlin Noise: I know it sucks that your massive versus game community is being screwed over. Too bad. That's the paradox you get for being so successful.


That's the other thing.  The copyright claim is bad enough, but to assert damages based on someone diminishing the online experience?  What next, are they going to take people to court for trolling or griefing or even just not playing the game "the right way"?  Git gud or git sood.
 
2017-04-18 01:39:49 PM  

Perlin Noise: I think fining someone who makes a cheat bot is pretty darn lame.

I know it sucks that your massive versus game community is being screwed over. Too bad. That's the paradox you get for being so successful.

Go cry me a river.


Your account just got banned for aimbot, huh? I know it sucks. Too bad. That's the paradox you get for being so l33t.
 
2017-04-19 02:17:23 AM  
Of course it's farking Blizzard.  Anyone so much as walks sideways and Blizzard pops off a lawsuit like a freshman invited to a senior prom after party.
 
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