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(NBC Washington)   United announces that it will no longer permit its crews to displace already-seated passengers, will have to find other reasons to beat them instead   ( nbcwashington.com) divider line
    More: Obvious, Dr. David Dao, fully-booked United Express, spokeswoman Maggie Schmerin, crew members, Regional airline, Martin Sheen, public-relations nightmare, Public relations  
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3369 clicks; posted to Main » on 17 Apr 2017 at 4:20 PM (26 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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TFA
2017-04-17 01:10:32 PM  
Sure, easy peasy.  They cannot displace the passenger.  They CAN, however, beat the everloving shiat out of them IN PLACE.  No displacement, though!
 
2017-04-17 01:17:20 PM  
They CAN, however, continue to use non-United minions to beat passengers FOR them.
I'm sorry, what does this ruling change again?
 
2017-04-17 01:18:15 PM  
It wasn't United crew it was airport rent-a-cops, because they can't use force like that in the first place.
 
2017-04-17 01:20:11 PM  
United should hire Guild Navigators.
 
2017-04-17 02:25:02 PM  
Now crews needing to be on the flight will be preboarded, bumping passengers BEFORE they are checked in and boarded.  Totes okay now.
 
2017-04-17 02:54:48 PM  
So...not using the ejector seats now?

Wish they'd make up their minds.
 
2017-04-17 03:00:23 PM  
DAMN IT, what fun is it for United employees to go into work now?

Poor things.
 
2017-04-17 03:12:54 PM  
img.fark.net
 
2017-04-17 04:22:26 PM  

harleyquinnical: Now crews needing to be on the flight will be preboarded, bumping passengers BEFORE they are checked in and boarded.  Totes okay now.


They have to show up an hour in advance, instead of waltzing on at the last minute.  Maybe they'll rethink their scheduling choices.
 
2017-04-17 04:24:52 PM  
So you'll still be bumped, but just when you're waiting at the gate or standing in the security line. NOT a good enough policy change. They didn't even bump their bump fee up to $10,000 like Delta did.
 
2017-04-17 04:26:09 PM  
Problem fixed forever!
 
2017-04-17 04:29:06 PM  

FrancoFile: harleyquinnical: Now crews needing to be on the flight will be preboarded, bumping passengers BEFORE they are checked in and boarded.  Totes okay now.

They have to show up an hour in advance, instead of waltzing on at the last minute.  Maybe they'll rethink their scheduling choices.


The airline will also have to use more flight crews from their hub cities or reserve seats for crew movement (ie not try to sell them to paying passengers and then tell them "psyche, we really needed those seats, didn't mean to sell them to you, sucks to be you, here's some United Bucks (tm) for your trouble, good luck using them")
 
2017-04-17 04:31:11 PM  
Baby steps.  That's how we move forward now.
 
2017-04-17 04:31:46 PM  

blatz514: [img.fark.net image 320x180]


It's an entirely different kind of beating, altogether.
 
2017-04-17 04:32:14 PM  

Walker: So you'll still be bumped, but just when you're waiting at the gate or standing in the security line. NOT a good enough policy change. They didn't even bump their bump fee up to $10,000 like Delta did.


Agreed, not good enough.  Thing is, they won't voluntarily do what's good enough.  And this is why sometimes the free market needs regulation, because left on its own it often won't do what's good enough.

What's good enough in this case?  The routine practice of overbooking and bumping should be illegal.  It's a horrible practice that is completely counter-intuitive to the way you purchase almost any other product or service.  So when the airlines voluntarily do that, I'll be impressed.  I won't hold my breath, though.
 
2017-04-17 04:33:04 PM  
Asking for extra bag of snacks?

That's a paddlin' broken nose and a concussion.
 
2017-04-17 04:33:19 PM  
img.fark.net
 
2017-04-17 04:35:46 PM  
The crews cannot displace the seated passengers.

Air Marshals and Airport Security, on the other hand.....

/and a quiet passage in a GOP bill to make it law
 
2017-04-17 04:38:38 PM  
Give up your seat or get beat quickly turns into,
Comply or die. ..
When they go after the first class passengers, this will stop ..
 
2017-04-17 04:41:48 PM  
So it's been routine practice all along to displace passengers for United employees?

That's asinine to start with.

See, I understand the whole thing about overbooking the flights.  It makes sense from a profit margin standpoint.  You could effectively sell the seat twice in most cases.
But pushing someone off a plane - someone who paid for their ticket - to make room for someone to fly because it's convenient for the company?!  Well, that's bad business and you shouldn't be doing it anyway.

Especially if it's necessary to enforce the convenience by beating a dragging a paying customer off the flight.
 
2017-04-17 04:42:21 PM  

deadromanoff: Give up your seat or get beat quickly turns into,
Comply or die. ..
When they go after the first class passengers, this will stop ..


Of course, but it will never get that far anyway. United would never remove someone they thought might have some recourse against them. That's why they picked a minority they thought was a poor nobody. They thought he would comply quietly and nobody would care if he didn't.
 
2017-04-17 04:43:17 PM  
So they'll just choke them with their own leggings?
 
2017-04-17 04:44:32 PM  
They should also make it a policy that they can't bump people from the last flight of the day.  Or perhaps they can only bump you if you can be accomodated on another flight the same day.
 
2017-04-17 04:45:57 PM  
So you have to run like musical chairs for the seat so they can't move you?
 
2017-04-17 04:46:14 PM  
...will no longer permit its crews to displace already-seated passengers

Given how slowly passengers board the plane, I'd reckon the crew still has 3 to 5 minutes to beat your ass to a bloody pulp and drag you off the plane before you literally take your seat.
 
2017-04-17 04:47:54 PM  
It's been decades since I've been been beaten on an airplane. Things must be getting better !

Used to fly AirCartel
 
2017-04-17 04:48:27 PM  
It seems like it should be pretty simple policy.  Passengers purchase a seat, so it is their seat.  If United wants it back, for whatever reason, it has to buy it back.  That means they have to keep going up on the offer until someone accepts it.
 
2017-04-17 04:48:57 PM  

QFarker: They should also make it a policy that they can't bump people from the last flight of the day.  Or perhaps they can only bump you if you can be accomodated on another flight the same day.


I think the best / most fairest way is if the airline oversells, they need to get the oversold tickets back voluntarily. This could be by bidding it up. The plane is oversold, we are offering the next available flight plus $1000 cash...$3k...$5k...etc until someone bites. Maybe higher, maybe lower but just an example. This seems like the most ethical way IMO.
 
2017-04-17 04:49:07 PM  
But I've always heard there's no replacement for displacement
 
2017-04-17 04:50:33 PM  
So it's ok as long as you haven't sat down. What a bunch of farking morons.
 
2017-04-17 04:53:34 PM  
img.fark.net
 
2017-04-17 04:54:02 PM  

DarkSoulNoHope: blatz514: [img.fark.net image 320x180]

It's an entirely different kind of beating, altogether.


It's an entirely different kind of beating
 
2017-04-17 04:56:30 PM  

BalugaJoe: United should hire Guild Navigators.


But if you control the spice, you control the navigators.
 
2017-04-17 04:57:26 PM  

dkulprit: BalugaJoe: United should hire Guild Navigators.

But if you control the spice, you control the navigators.


img.fark.net
 
2017-04-17 05:00:53 PM  

Phelon Hardtimes: Baby steps.  That's how we move forward now.


img.fark.net
 
2017-04-17 05:01:42 PM  

TFA: Sure, easy peasy.  They cannot displace the passenger.  They CAN, however, beat the everloving shiat out of them IN PLACE.  No displacement, though!


You must be subby, in which case you're an idoit.
 
2017-04-17 05:02:29 PM  
New motto: Get there early and beat the crowds!
 
2017-04-17 05:04:06 PM  

Billy Liar: New motto: Get there early and beat the crowds!


United Airlines: We will beat you there, so we don't have to beat you off.
 
2017-04-17 05:05:06 PM  

To The Escape Zeppelin!: deadromanoff: Give up your seat or get beat quickly turns into,
Comply or die. ..
When they go after the first class passengers, this will stop ..

Of course, but it will never get that far anyway. United would never remove someone they thought might have some recourse against them. That's why they picked a minority they thought was a poor nobody. They thought he would comply quietly and nobody would care if he didn't.


No it isn't
 
2017-04-17 05:07:32 PM  

durbnpoisn: So it's been routine practice all along to displace passengers for United employees?

That's asinine to start with.

See, I understand the whole thing about overbooking the flights.  It makes sense from a profit margin standpoint.  You could effectively sell the seat twice in most cases.


Which is why it's fraud.

They are selling something that they've already sold.  I understand why they want to do it.  But that doesn't change the fact that it's a fraudulent business practice, and it should not be legal.

If they want to be sure the seats are filled?  Sell standby tickets - tickets that aren't for any particular flight, but can be used to get on a flight if, at boarding time, there are empty seats.  It's what airlines used to do before they decided that fraud was an acceptable business model.
 
2017-04-17 05:08:03 PM  

durbnpoisn: So it's been routine practice all along to displace passengers for United employees?

That's asinine to start with.

See, I understand the whole thing about overbooking the flights.  It makes sense from a profit margin standpoint.  You could effectively sell the seat twice in most cases.
But pushing someone off a plane - someone who paid for their ticket - to make room for someone to fly because it's convenient for the company?!  Well, that's bad business and you shouldn't be doing it anyway.

Especially if it's necessary to enforce the convenience by beating a dragging a paying customer off the flight.


Yeah. Because Captain Smith and his crew are due to fly the first flight out of Boston tomorrow, and just flew in to Dulles. Their flight was delayed, and missed the deadhead flight they intended to take.  Now, in order to get tomorrow's flight off the ground, they need to bump people from the next flight to Boston. So the "convenience" for the airline is having someone to fly another flight tomorrow. They have to move their crews somehow.  How do you propose they move their folks around the country?  Or should they cancel the whole flight tomorrow, inconveniencing 200 people instead of 4?
 
2017-04-17 05:08:10 PM  
Definitely too little, too late.  The only thing that would make me fly with United is if the CEO was fired and someone with a little more humanity was put in his place.  But that'll never happen.  I don't think CEO and humanity have anything to do with each other.  They're pretty much all soulless assholes.
 
2017-04-17 05:08:19 PM  

karmachameleon: Walker: So you'll still be bumped, but just when you're waiting at the gate or standing in the security line. NOT a good enough policy change. They didn't even bump their bump fee up to $10,000 like Delta did.

Agreed, not good enough.  Thing is, they won't voluntarily do what's good enough.  And this is why sometimes the free market needs regulation, because left on its own it often won't do what's good enough.

What's good enough in this case?  The routine practice of overbooking and bumping should be illegal.  It's a horrible practice that is completely counter-intuitive to the way you purchase almost any other product or service.  So when the airlines voluntarily do that, I'll be impressed.  I won't hold my breath, though.


Thing is, If that were the case, and you miss the flight (your fault), the seat flies empty.   Do you think the airline owes you another ticket?  Kind like you order your dinner, it's severed to you, and you decide not to eat it.  Should the restaurant give you a dinner at some other time?
 
2017-04-17 05:09:57 PM  

ButterFlavoredSalt: I think the best / most fairest way is if the airline oversells, they need to get the oversold tickets back voluntarily. This could be by bidding it up. The plane is oversold, we are offering the next available flight plus $1000 cash...$3k...$5k...etc until someone bites. Maybe higher, maybe lower but just an example. This seems like the most ethical way IMO.


Someone on NPR the other day was suggesting airlines could start with a fairly high dollar amount (yeah, like they'd do that) offered by text message. If they get more people accepting the offer than they need, the dollar amount goes down. It had something to do with human psychology. Doing it by text instead of a public announcement is to counter people's aversion to feeling like a sucker. They might be inclined to take an offer, but if they look around and no one else seems to be taking it, they think they might be getting screwed, so they won't take it either.
 
2017-04-17 05:11:00 PM  

DarkVader: durbnpoisn: So it's been routine practice all along to displace passengers for United employees?

That's asinine to start with.

See, I understand the whole thing about overbooking the flights.  It makes sense from a profit margin standpoint.  You could effectively sell the seat twice in most cases.

Which is why it's fraud.

They are selling something that they've already sold.  I understand why they want to do it.  But that doesn't change the fact that it's a fraudulent business practice, and it should not be legal.

If they want to be sure the seats are filled?  Sell standby tickets - tickets that aren't for any particular flight, but can be used to get on a flight if, at boarding time, there are empty seats.  It's what airlines used to do before they decided that fraud was an acceptable business model.


Yeah, I never understood the logic in that.

How often are people buying tickets for a flight and then just not showing up that it seems reasonable to sell tickets to more people than can be on the plane?
 
2017-04-17 05:13:14 PM  

mama2tnt: DAMN IT, what fun is it for United employees to go into work now?

Poor things.


They have a reciprocity agreement with Delta, where they can beat each others passengers.

/ if the rent-a-cops are busy
 
2017-04-17 05:14:51 PM  
United Express, meanwhile, takes care of passengers more efficiently:

media.giphy.com
 
2017-04-17 05:15:00 PM  

AugieDoggyDaddy: karmachameleon: Walker: So you'll still be bumped, but just when you're waiting at the gate or standing in the security line. NOT a good enough policy change. They didn't even bump their bump fee up to $10,000 like Delta did.

Agreed, not good enough.  Thing is, they won't voluntarily do what's good enough.  And this is why sometimes the free market needs regulation, because left on its own it often won't do what's good enough.

What's good enough in this case?  The routine practice of overbooking and bumping should be illegal.  It's a horrible practice that is completely counter-intuitive to the way you purchase almost any other product or service.  So when the airlines voluntarily do that, I'll be impressed.  I won't hold my breath, though.

Thing is, If that were the case, and you miss the flight (your fault), the seat flies empty.   Do you think the airline owes you another ticket?  Kind like you order your dinner, it's severed to you, and you decide not to eat it.  Should the restaurant give you a dinner at some other time?


Restaurant cut off my own arm and served it to me.  0/5 stars.
 
2017-04-17 05:16:20 PM  

PreMortem: It wasn't United crew it was airport rent-a-cops, because they can't use force like that in the first place.


Not Rent-A-Cops. Actual sworn law enforcement officers. Chicago PD.
 
2017-04-17 05:16:51 PM  

AugieDoggyDaddy: karmachameleon: Walker: So you'll still be bumped, but just when you're waiting at the gate or standing in the security line. NOT a good enough policy change. They didn't even bump their bump fee up to $10,000 like Delta did.

Agreed, not good enough.  Thing is, they won't voluntarily do what's good enough.  And this is why sometimes the free market needs regulation, because left on its own it often won't do what's good enough.

What's good enough in this case?  The routine practice of overbooking and bumping should be illegal.  It's a horrible practice that is completely counter-intuitive to the way you purchase almost any other product or service.  So when the airlines voluntarily do that, I'll be impressed.  I won't hold my breath, though.

Thing is, If that were the case, and you miss the flight (your fault), the seat flies empty.   Do you think the airline owes you another ticket?  Kind like you order your dinner, it's severed to you, and you decide not to eat it.  Should the restaurant give you a dinner at some other time?


No, the airline doesn't owe someone who misses their seat another ticket.
 
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