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(Vox)   "Airlines treat you terribly because there's no incentive for them not to"   ( vox.com) divider line
    More: Obvious, Airline, calculated misery, airline industry, Southwest Airlines, Avianca, Delta Air Lines, Northwest Airlines, Flag carrier  
•       •       •

3580 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 Apr 2017 at 9:38 PM (27 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



78 Comments     (+0 »)
 
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2017-04-14 08:12:01 PM  
I'm taking my business to.....wait.

Pretty much
 
2017-04-14 08:56:11 PM  
img.fark.net
 
2017-04-14 09:10:01 PM  
Ain't deregulation grand?
 
2017-04-14 09:22:09 PM  
There might be after that big ass lawsuit gets filed against United.
I mean, at least rein them in a bit.
 
2017-04-14 09:40:22 PM  

lindalouwho: There might be after that big ass lawsuit gets filed against United.
I mean, at least rein them in a bit.


10 minutes in time out will learn 'em.
 
2017-04-14 09:43:21 PM  

lindalouwho: There might be after that big ass lawsuit gets filed against United.
I mean, at least rein them in a bit.


And a billion or so in lost market cap when their stock dropped this week.
 
2017-04-14 09:43:50 PM  
You should look at United's stock price, over the last 30 days.
 
2017-04-14 09:46:40 PM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Ain't deregulation grand?


Fark comments should be regulated.
 
2017-04-14 09:46:49 PM  

kyuzokai: lindalouwho: There might be after that big ass lawsuit gets filed against United.
I mean, at least rein them in a bit.

10 minutes in time out will learn 'em.


15.

/ Ten million in revenue per day
 
2017-04-14 09:49:37 PM  
Sounds like a solution crapped out by an MBA in his thesis. Think longer term, assholes. Sure you can make a quick buck screwing people over. A lot of bucks actually. In the end, you're screwing over the company and you'd better goddamn hope it can't be traced back yo you. You'll be the first against the wall
 
2017-04-14 09:52:18 PM  
I notice all the airlines mentioned in the article were based in the USA...

I've flown dozens of carriers from outside the US, and by *FAR* the US ones were the worst so far as the "calculated misery" thing. They have it down to a science like the Wal-Mart supply chain.

In the US there's two ways to get around that...

A: Spend more for an upgrade (pay them more money.)
B: Have enough frequent flyer miles (meaning they already have your money.)
 
2017-04-14 09:52:50 PM  

Victoly: kyuzokai: lindalouwho: There might be after that big ass lawsuit gets filed against United.
I mean, at least rein them in a bit.

10 minutes in time out will learn 'em.

15.

/ One hundred million in revenue per day


FTFM

/ lrn 2 math
 
2017-04-14 09:53:32 PM  

Shazam999: MaudlinMutantMollusk: Ain't deregulation grand?

Fark comments should be regulated.


They're not?
 
2017-04-14 09:54:33 PM  

TorpedoOrca: Sounds like a solution crapped out by an MBA in his thesis. Think longer term, assholes. Sure you can make a quick buck screwing people over. A lot of bucks actually. In the end, you're screwing over the company and you'd better goddamn hope it can't be traced back yo you. You'll be the first against the wall


The people who make these decisions only care about making a quick buck for themselves. CEO has a golden parachute, gives zero farks.
 
jvl [BareFark]
2017-04-14 09:59:10 PM  
Why should the airline make flying suck less when idiots buy the lowest price no matter how much the airline sucks?

United's schtick is the "loyal customer." They give seat upgrades and other perks to whichever passenger has the most frequent flyer miles. So some flyers always fly United to try to earn status. Cute way to get customer loyalty.

I prefer Southwest. Yeah they're cheap but there are no idiotic fees, and no frequent flyer games.

Next time you fly, maybe check out seat sizes and fees rather than just clicking the lowest price like an maroon.
 
2017-04-14 09:59:24 PM  
I haven't stepped onto an airplane since I retired from the military in 2003. Plans for future air travel aren't happening either. I'm okay with driving where I vacation, and it's a lot easier to take a couple bicycles with me. Vacations without riding don't happen. At all. Ever.
 
2017-04-14 10:01:06 PM  

TorpedoOrca: Sounds like a solution crapped out by an MBA in his thesis. Think longer term, assholes. Sure you can make a quick buck screwing people over. A lot of bucks actually. In the end, you're screwing over the company and you'd better goddamn hope it can't be traced back yo you. You'll be the first against the wall


Well, I'm glad you have options... Most people don't fly for personal reasons very often, but when they do it's it's always been a seller's market because it's for a vacation or grandma's funeral or whatnot, and it doesn't help that there are so many websites that will tell you the cheapest rate and then in the small print say check the individual airline's website for their policies and fees.

Whether it's traced back to the airline or not is not the airline's problem if you're ignorant of what they clearly stated. :|
 
2017-04-14 10:02:17 PM  

maxheck: I notice all the airlines mentioned in the article were based in the USA...

I've flown dozens of carriers from outside the US, and by *FAR* the US ones were the worst so far as the "calculated misery" thing. They have it down to a science like the Wal-Mart supply chain.

In the US there's two ways to get around that...

A: Spend more for an upgrade (pay them more money.)
B: Have enough frequent flyer miles (meaning they already have your money.)


It's fun to watch Americans react to flying JAL or ANA for the first time. They're preparing for Applebee's and they get the French Laundry.
 
2017-04-14 10:02:25 PM  
As a 'for instance' let's take a look at what Ross Perot is up to these days. He ran on a presidential platform decrying the great sucking sound to the south. When he lost, his company PerotSystems started leaning heavily on H1B1 workers from India.

Where is PerotSystems now? Well, they were sold off to Dell and have since been divested into nothing. Did he make a lot of money in the process? Yes he did. I can think of one specific allie, Reza Saleh, who got busted for insider trading in the Dell sell (there was a time I was called to lock down his trading accounts and was very tempted to steal the $8.6 million he had stolen). I didn't and he's still out there with his millions, but I have not forgotten that. Fark over your customers and company and it will come back...eventually
 
2017-04-14 10:04:55 PM  

jvl: Why should the airline make flying suck less when idiots buy the lowest price no matter how much the airline sucks?

United's schtick is the "loyal customer." They give seat upgrades and other perks to whichever passenger has the most frequent flyer miles. So some flyers always fly United to try to earn status. Cute way to get customer loyalty.

I prefer Southwest. Yeah they're cheap but there are no idiotic fees, and no frequent flyer games.

Next time you fly, maybe check out seat sizes and fees rather than just clicking the lowest price like an maroon.


Indeed.  I fly them almost exclusively.
 
2017-04-14 10:07:02 PM  
It is like almost everything these days, either you make or provide a premium product or service or it is the race to the bottom to be just good enough but slightly cheaper, and then sorta ok but cheaper, then...and we end up with really cheap but considered slightly less crappy than the alternative.
 
2017-04-14 10:08:17 PM  
Something tells me Delta isn't suddenly offering up to ten grand out of the goodness of their heart

I'd add my wife flew today and they just straight up asked her to name her price, and if needed the lowest bid would get bumped first
 
2017-04-14 10:08:31 PM  
Well, no schitt, Sherlock.  For the most part airline loyalty went out the window a long time ago.  Most people these days only care about the cheapest flight possible, and that hurt the profit margins of the airlines.  So their way to fight back was to start nickle and diming the customers.  And so long as customers are willing to pay for it the airlines will continue to charge for it.  And given how airline travel is such an integral part of our society I seriously doubt it is going to change within our lifetime.
 
2017-04-14 10:09:18 PM  
well, there is always


img.fark.net
 
2017-04-14 10:11:02 PM  

daphne: Shazam999: MaudlinMutantMollusk: Ain't deregulation grand?

Fark comments should be regulated.

They're not?


You'll find out in two weeks after the Department of Internet Comments approves my Request for Reply.
 
2017-04-14 10:13:21 PM  

Cheeseface: Something tells me Delta isn't suddenly offering up to ten grand out of the goodness of their heart

I'd add my wife flew today and they just straight up asked her to name her price, and if needed the lowest bid would get bumped first


"A company spokesperson confirmed to CNNMoney that supervisors were previously only able to offer up to $1,350, but Delta (DAL) notified them on Friday that they'll now be able to offer up to $9,950 in compensation."

I am not sure that that is possible, as that limit of $1,350 is set by the Department of Transportation, not the arilines.
 
2017-04-14 10:15:46 PM  

TwowheelinTim: I haven't stepped onto an airplane since I retired from the military in 2003. Plans for future air travel aren't happening either. I'm okay with driving where I vacation, and it's a lot easier to take a couple bicycles with me. Vacations without riding don't happen. At all. Ever.


Can't say I blame you, but until you can ride to Rt. 13 in Laos from wherever you are, I might disagree with you. :)

img.fark.net

Your legs might get a little tired though...
 
2017-04-14 10:16:15 PM  
Because planes have become cross-country busses. Flying across the country is a necessity, not a luxury, they know it, so we're stuck with whatever they give us.

Since it otherwise takes five days by train to get from LA to NY, you just have to like the occasional beatdown.
 
2017-04-14 10:17:39 PM  

alienated: well, there is always


[img.fark.net image 850x566]


Not always an option, and seldom a good option.
 
2017-04-14 10:21:15 PM  

Mock26: Cheeseface: Something tells me Delta isn't suddenly offering up to ten grand out of the goodness of their heart

I'd add my wife flew today and they just straight up asked her to name her price, and if needed the lowest bid would get bumped first

"A company spokesperson confirmed to CNNMoney that supervisors were previously only able to offer up to $1,350, but Delta (DAL) notified them on Friday that they'll now be able to offer up to $9,950 in compensation."

I am not sure that that is possible, as that limit of $1,350 is set by the Department of Transportation, not the arilines.


The DOT cap is for reimbursement for involuntary bumps - there's no guidance or restrictions from the DOT regarding what airlines can offer to get people to give up their seats voluntarily.
 
2017-04-14 10:24:18 PM  
My favorite customer service story still comes from the airline industry.

There was this woman who constantly flew, and every flight she would send a letter in complaining about everything on the flight. It gets escalated repeatedly until the file, which is about four inches thick, end up on the VP of services desk. He read over it, takes out his personal stationary and apologizes to her that they can't meet her satisfaction. He sends her a coupon on another airline the bans her.
 
2017-04-14 10:29:12 PM  

kyuzokai: It's fun to watch Americans react to flying JAL or ANA for the first time. They're preparing for Applebee's and they get the French Laundry.


This. The first time I flew JAL, I  was dumbfounded to see that my seat looked like first class one, despite me having purchased a coach ticket. I had to check my ticket and the aisle/seat number like 3 times before I was sure it was actually the correct one. Even then I still expected the stewardess to kick me out. Instead, she asked if I would like an English language newspaper.
 
2017-04-14 10:32:24 PM  

Mock26: Cheeseface: Something tells me Delta isn't suddenly offering up to ten grand out of the goodness of their heart

I'd add my wife flew today and they just straight up asked her to name her price, and if needed the lowest bid would get bumped first

"A company spokesperson confirmed to CNNMoney that supervisors were previously only able to offer up to $1,350, but Delta (DAL) notified them on Friday that they'll now be able to offer up to $9,950 in compensation."

I am not sure that that is possible, as that limit of $1,350 is set by the Department of Transportation, not the arilines.


"the airline must pay you an amount equal to 200% of your one-way fare to your final destination that day, with a $675 maximum."

It's the maximum they MUST pay you, not the limit to what they CAN pay you.
 
2017-04-14 10:34:35 PM  

maxheck: Well, I'm glad you have options


People in small cities are lucky to have an airline let alone a choice.
 
2017-04-14 10:35:32 PM  

kyuzokai: It's fun to watch Americans react to flying JAL or ANA for the first time. They're preparing for Applebee's and they get the French Laundry.


Capitalizing that last word is quite important there.
 
2017-04-14 10:36:38 PM  

TorpedoOrca: Sounds like a solution crapped out by an MBA in his thesis. Think longer term, assholes. Sure you can make a quick buck screwing people over. A lot of bucks actually. In the end, you're screwing over the company and you'd better goddamn hope it can't be traced back yo you. You'll be the first against the wall


MBA thinking ends at the end of the current quarter.

/MBA - Masters of Business Assassination.
 
2017-04-14 10:37:24 PM  

Shazam999: MaudlinMutantMollusk: Ain't deregulation grand?

Fark comments should be regulated.


Fark commentors, too

/Have a nice day
 
2017-04-14 10:45:27 PM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Shazam999: MaudlinMutantMollusk: Ain't deregulation grand?

Fark comments should be regulated.

Fark commentors, too

/Have a nice day


They could have a whole Department of Farks!  They could truly give a fark!
 
2017-04-14 10:46:18 PM  

maxheck: TwowheelinTim: I haven't stepped onto an airplane since I retired from the military in 2003. Plans for future air travel aren't happening either. I'm okay with driving where I vacation, and it's a lot easier to take a couple bicycles with me. Vacations without riding don't happen. At all. Ever.

Can't say I blame you, but until you can ride to Rt. 13 in Laos from wherever you are, I might disagree with you. :)

[img.fark.net image 850x364]

Your legs might get a little tired though...


You can disagree all you want, but you're addressing somebody who actually enjoys traveling the seas.

Besides, I don't feel any sort of urge to travel beyond our shores anyway.
 
2017-04-14 10:46:58 PM  
upload.wikimedia.org

Still better than flying.
 
2017-04-14 10:50:25 PM  
Flying is one of the times I'm glad I'm short and not fat.  The small seats and lack of legroom doesn't inconvenience me like it would a big guy.
 
2017-04-14 10:51:40 PM  

ScottRiqui: Mock26: Cheeseface: Something tells me Delta isn't suddenly offering up to ten grand out of the goodness of their heart

I'd add my wife flew today and they just straight up asked her to name her price, and if needed the lowest bid would get bumped first

"A company spokesperson confirmed to CNNMoney that supervisors were previously only able to offer up to $1,350, but Delta (DAL) notified them on Friday that they'll now be able to offer up to $9,950 in compensation."

I am not sure that that is possible, as that limit of $1,350 is set by the Department of Transportation, not the arilines.

The DOT cap is for reimbursement for involuntary bumps - there's no guidance or restrictions from the DOT regarding what airlines can offer to get people to give up their seats voluntarily.


Ah, gotcha.  Thank you for the clarification.
 
2017-04-14 10:52:40 PM  

bobbyjoebobby: "the airline must pay you an amount equal to 200% of your one-way fare to your final destination that day, with a $675 maximum."


That is only if they can book you on another flight within a certain time span, which I believe is 2 hours.
 
2017-04-14 10:53:34 PM  

TorpedoOrca: As a 'for instance' let's take a look at what Ross Perot is up to these days. He ran on a presidential platform decrying the great sucking sound to the south. When he lost, his company PerotSystems started leaning heavily on H1B1 workers from India.

Where is PerotSystems now? Well, they were sold off to Dell and have since been divested into nothing. Did he make a lot of money in the process? Yes he did. I can think of one specific allie, Reza Saleh, who got busted for insider trading in the Dell sell (there was a time I was called to lock down his trading accounts and was very tempted to steal the $8.6 million he had stolen). I didn't and he's still out there with his millions, but I have not forgotten that. Fark over your customers and company and it will come back...eventually


Actually, the remnants of Perot Systems now belong to NTT Data. Dell sold them off to generate cash to pay for the taxes on his merger/acquisition of EMC.
 
2017-04-14 10:55:30 PM  

trialpha: kyuzokai: It's fun to watch Americans react to flying JAL or ANA for the first time. They're preparing for Applebee's and they get the French Laundry.

This. The first time I flew JAL, I  was dumbfounded to see that my seat looked like first class one, despite me having purchased a coach ticket. I had to check my ticket and the aisle/seat number like 3 times before I was sure it was actually the correct one. Even then I still expected the stewardess to kick me out. Instead, she asked if I would like an English language newspaper.


Lufthansa is my new favorite without question when available. I've flown the pacific Asian airlines quite a bit for comparison, but damn. Great service, best actual food, and while you can go and grab snacks etc... They generally leave you alone for most of the flight. And plenty of legroom, had some bags a smidge over weight they didn't upcharge, and no issues at all with transporting pets.

In the US, I fly Southwest first and United last (only if there really is no other option) but Lufthansa is my new favorite.  Emirates is pretty good too.

Anyone have any experience with Aeroflot intnl? Flying them in two weeks or so.
 
2017-04-14 10:59:44 PM  
If someone could set up an airline that's reasonably inexpensive while offering meals and snacks for every passenger, inflight movies, internet, comfortable legroom and free checked bags they'd make tremendous bank. In short, make flying what it used to be.
 
2017-04-14 11:04:04 PM  

AnnoyingBuzz: Actually, the remnants of Perot Systems now belong to NTT Data. Dell sold them off to generate cash to pay for the taxes on his merger/acquisition of EMC.


I'd Smart this twice if I could
 
2017-04-14 11:07:50 PM  

Mock26: bobbyjoebobby: "the airline must pay you an amount equal to 200% of your one-way fare to your final destination that day, with a $675 maximum."

That is only if they can book you on another flight within a certain time span, which I believe is 2 hours.


Sure, and it is 13xx if 4 hours. My point is people think those are maximum reimbursements allowed. Those are just the max required. They can pay more if they want. But why would they? All they have to say is "that is the maximum per DOT" which is a lie by ommision.

If your ticket is $500 they have to give you 200% up to $675 limit. They can chose to give you more, but airlines only authorize staff to offer the max required by DOT rules.
 
2017-04-14 11:11:48 PM  

daphne: Shazam999: MaudlinMutantMollusk: Ain't deregulation grand?

Fark comments should be regulated.

They're not?


Drew's quietly replaced the mods with a hamster. Let's see if anyone notices.

/now taking bets on whether I'm blocked from commenting for a day or just deleted
 
2017-04-14 11:12:07 PM  

Mock26: ScottRiqui: Mock26: Cheeseface: Something tells me Delta isn't suddenly offering up to ten grand out of the goodness of their heart

I'd add my wife flew today and they just straight up asked her to name her price, and if needed the lowest bid would get bumped first

"A company spokesperson confirmed to CNNMoney that supervisors were previously only able to offer up to $1,350, but Delta (DAL) notified them on Friday that they'll now be able to offer up to $9,950 in compensation."

I am not sure that that is possible, as that limit of $1,350 is set by the Department of Transportation, not the arilines.

The DOT cap is for reimbursement for involuntary bumps - there's no guidance or restrictions from the DOT regarding what airlines can offer to get people to give up their seats voluntarily.

Ah, gotcha.  Thank you for the clarification.


You're welcome - I thought the same as you until someone explained it to me in the first big UA thread.

The DOT cap probably *did* influence the Delta supervisor's earlier discretionary limit mentioned above regarding voluntary bumps, though; why offer someone more than $1350 to give up their seat voluntarily when that's the maximum you can be forced to pay out if you just go the involuntary route instead?  I guess the answer is "because involuntary bumps can turn into PR/legal nightmares when the passenger has already been assigned a seat and boarded the aircraft."
 
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