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(Mashable)   Your brain's ability to make random decisions peaks at age 25. Roll 1D6 for each year over 25 to find out how bad   ( mashable.com) divider line
    More: Interesting, Complexity, random choices peaks, Problem solving, important cognitive skill, PLOS Computational Biology, blunt statistical tools, Random sequence, Algorithmic Nature Group  
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1057 clicks; posted to Geek » on 14 Apr 2017 at 12:33 AM (40 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



31 Comments     (+0 »)
 
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2017-04-13 10:30:02 PM  
That conclusion, which isn't too surprising given what we know about the aging process

Also the age when the two halves of the brain become fully connected.
 
2017-04-14 12:17:29 AM  
No wonder MacGyver created such piss-poor contraptions.  MacGyver Jr would make for an interesting reboot.
 
2017-04-14 12:39:22 AM  
Random, eh?
 
2017-04-14 01:15:50 AM  

UnspokenVoice: Random, eh?


Yes, random ... assuming "random" means "based on blow, boobs, or Benjamin's"
 
2017-04-14 01:21:40 AM  

simplicimus: That conclusion, which isn't too surprising given what we know about the aging process

Also the age when the two halves of the brain become fully connected.


Don't let science get in the way of treating teenagers as fully culpable adults in the court system! law and order will break down.
 
2017-04-14 01:50:03 AM  

cheezesub: simplicimus: That conclusion, which isn't too surprising given what we know about the aging process

Also the age when the two halves of the brain become fully connected.

Don't let science get in the way of treating teenagers as fully culpable adults in the court system! law and order will break down.


I get the feeling that people who pass laws never lived with teenagers.
 
2017-04-14 01:50:07 AM  
You know what else goes down after the age of 25? The chances of getting arrested for making stupid random decisions.
 
2017-04-14 01:55:30 AM  
For human beings, the ability to behave randomly isn't a matter of life or death, but it is an important cognitive skill that reflects our capacity for creativity and problem solving.

"Random" doesn't exist. It's a side-effect of our inability to perceive in real-time all of the causes of an event.

/just like "free will"
 
2017-04-14 01:59:44 AM  

johnny_vegas: UnspokenVoice: Random, eh?

Yes, random ... assuming "random" means "based on blow, boobs, or Benjamin's"


*chuckles*

I'm a mathematician, retired. I remain skeptical of many claims about randomness. There are some things which are not well understood (such as the decay rate of a radioactive atom) but true random is very hard to achieve. More often than not, anything we once thought was random, turned out to only be poorly understood. (They blamed it on things like gods, for example.)

Now, because I have a minute, we have things for which there is enough randomness to suffice. An example for this might be a PRNG, note the P. A good project is the one which uses cosmic radiation with which to generate 'noise' and is a 'pseudo-random number generator.'

It's 'random enough' but, is it really random? Well, we honestly can't say. Like infinity, some random is bigger than others. Things like this are pondered by the highest order of mathematicians. They're known as "Philosophers of Mathematics." I am not smart enough, or crazy enough, to do what they do. I do have a Ph.D. but it is in Applied Mathematics. Those guys are kinda crazy, if you ask me.

There's quite some debate about True Random.

In this case, the brain is a series of electrical-chemical reactions. They're based on stimuli. I'm not sure if a human can really do anything that's truly random. They sure as hell can do some things that go unexplained, I know - I have grown children. But, I'm not sure if it is truly random.

Thus my skeptical antics, when I see the word "random." More often than not, random simply means poorly understood. Trivially related, to assume we're at the apex of knowledge is a fine example of hubris. There are many, many things we still do not understand. If we understood everything, we'd stop looking to learn new stuff. ;-)
 
2017-04-14 02:00:07 AM  

Sid_6.7: For human beings, the ability to behave randomly isn't a matter of life or death, but it is an important cognitive skill that reflects our capacity for creativity and problem solving.

"Random" doesn't exist. It's a side-effect of our inability to perceive in real-time all of the causes of an event.

/just like "free will"


Quantum physics says you're wrong.
 
2017-04-14 02:05:01 AM  

realmolo: Sid_6.7: For human beings, the ability to behave randomly isn't a matter of life or death, but it is an important cognitive skill that reflects our capacity for creativity and problem solving.

"Random" doesn't exist. It's a side-effect of our inability to perceive in real-time all of the causes of an event.

/just like "free will"

Quantum physics says you're wrong.


You're ignorant and dead-wrong.

Quantum physics says that things happen that we can't predict. It doesn't say that there isn't a cause, merely that we can't measure it.

It proves my argument entirely.
 
2017-04-14 02:29:05 AM  
img.fark.netView Full Size


Unless you're Screwball. In which case, you're good for life.
 
2017-04-14 02:31:29 AM  

UnspokenVoice: johnny_vegas: UnspokenVoice: Random, eh?

Yes, random ... assuming "random" means "based on blow, boobs, or Benjamin's"

*chuckles*

I'm a mathematician, retired. I remain skeptical of many claims about randomness. There are some things which are not well understood (such as the decay rate of a radioactive atom) but true random is very hard to achieve. More often than not, anything we once thought was random, turned out to only be poorly understood. (They blamed it on things like gods, for example.)

Now, because I have a minute, we have things for which there is enough randomness to suffice. An example for this might be a PRNG, note the P. A good project is the one which uses cosmic radiation with which to generate 'noise' and is a 'pseudo-random number generator.'

It's 'random enough' but, is it really random? Well, we honestly can't say. Like infinity, some random is bigger than others. Things like this are pondered by the highest order of mathematicians. They're known as "Philosophers of Mathematics." I am not smart enough, or crazy enough, to do what they do. I do have a Ph.D. but it is in Applied Mathematics. Those guys are kinda crazy, if you ask me.

There's quite some debate about True Random.

In this case, the brain is a series of electrical-chemical reactions. They're based on stimuli. I'm not sure if a human can really do anything that's truly random. They sure as hell can do some things that go unexplained, I know - I have grown children. But, I'm not sure if it is truly random.

Thus my skeptical antics, when I see the word "random." More often than not, random simply means poorly understood. Trivially related, to assume we're at the apex of knowledge is a fine example of hubris. There are many, many things we still do not understand. If we understood everything, we'd stop looking to learn new stuff. ;-)


You sir, I like the cut of your jib. As the son of a civil engineer, I was doing long division when most kids were wiping snot and learning how to tie their shoes. I got kicked out of a stats class for arguing with my teach. (I was a sophomore in a college level class). Alot of so called "math" is no more than guess, postulation, and a whole lot of glad handing. Sirgey brin and Larry page have done more for stats and chaos theory in the last ~20 years than Fisher or tukey ever did, as far as real world application.....and I'm drunk. shiat, I was going somewhere with that. Either way, you are a lovely shade of red3 I think.
 
2017-04-14 02:45:26 AM  

Bluemoons: You sir, I like the cut of your jib. As the son of a civil engineer, I was doing long division when most kids were wiping snot and learning how to tie their shoes. I got kicked out of a stats class for arguing with my teach. (I was a sophomore in a college level class). Alot of so called "math" is no more than guess, postulation, and a whole lot of glad handing. Sirgey brin and Larry page have done more for stats and chaos theory in the last ~20 years than Fisher or tukey ever did, as far as real world application.....and I'm drunk. shiat, I was going somewhere with that. Either way, you are a lovely shade of red3 I think.


I am retired and I've smoked some pot. I can't even go outside and smash snow. So...

Mathematics is a language. Few people ever learn it as a language. Most people only learn a subset, called Arithmetic. They learn by rote. They're not taught it as a language. They're taught formula but not logic. They're given instructions but never told why. Truthfully, not many people understand why.

There are mathematical concepts that I can't even fully comprehend. There's a dude who's much smarter than I am, so I defer to him, who posits that you can divide infinity in half. Yeah... He's even got some sort of math to prove it. He's not even modern. I'm stoned and forgot his name. I think his book was in the 1870s. I think I have a copy.

Anyhow, it's pretty neat. I share a language with physicists. I'm not a physicist. I should make that clear. This means I have a different perspective, than some others. I kinda wish more people understood the language.

It's important to note that mathematics is a language. It can tell lies. It can tell stories. It can even tell jokes, but you probably don't want to hear them. I can prove that 0.999...=1. I can tell horrible, horrible lies with mathematics.
 
2017-04-14 03:20:52 AM  

Sid_6.7: realmolo: Sid_6.7: For human beings, the ability to behave randomly isn't a matter of life or death, but it is an important cognitive skill that reflects our capacity for creativity and problem solving.

"Random" doesn't exist. It's a side-effect of our inability to perceive in real-time all of the causes of an event.

/just like "free will"

Quantum physics says you're wrong.

You're ignorant and dead-wrong.

Quantum physics says that things happen that we can't predict. It doesn't say that there isn't a cause, merely that we can't measure it.

It proves my argument entirely.


Violation of Bell's Inequalities in photonic systems says Hidden Variable theories, and thus you, are wrong.

Or at least suggests it; we've no farking clue what's really going on down there.
 
2017-04-14 04:50:21 AM  

New Farkin User Name: we've no farking clue what's really going on down there.


God doesn't play dice with the universe.

The old bastard prefers to draw cards.
 
2017-04-14 05:16:03 AM  

Cthulhu_is_my_homeboy: God doesn't play dice with the universe.


I'm still pretty baked and kinda bored. This is in addition to your post.

That statement is, by some, considered Einstein's greatest blunder. However, it leads to the idea that unknowable does not mean random. Which brings us in a bit of a circle.

Let's use a radioactive atom's rate of decay. Well, that bugger does some strange stuff.

First, we have to understand a few things. That's okay, this is good stuff. Stuff, in fact, is made up of matter. Matter loves to dance. Matter's just a happy lil' wiggling thing.

Pretty much, everything in the universe is wiggling (except where it shouldn't be, which leads to some other questions saved for another day). Well, particles wiggle. They do more than wiggle, but that's not important right now.

What matters is that they're wiggling. They're dancing to the rhythm of the universe. They get pretty excited and they stop dancing with their friends.

What this means is that a itty bitty particle comes flying right off a radioactive atom. Currently, we can predict the time frame of this. Why is this important?

At this point, that atom will then begin to decay. We can currently predict how long this will take at the shortest level and at the highest level. This is observed with reasonable certainty. We can't say exactly when it will happen but we can state that all observations have fallen within a certain time frame.

This means all sorts of stuff. This implies all sorts of things. One of those things is that some things are inherently unknowable. For example, it is unknowable to tell the exact moment that an atom will begin to decay, according to current observations.

This doesn't make it random. It makes it unknowable. Unknowable may not actually be random. You have no way of knowing which card I draw from a deck, but it is not random.

It's a wonderful mystery. I sometimes wonder if its knowable at all. Just 'cause we can not yet observe something, doesn't mean it's random. Just because we can not yet detect external stimuli, does not mean it does not exist. It's a great philosophical question, for which there's no known answer.
 
2017-04-14 05:22:20 AM  

UnspokenVoice: Bluemoons: You sir, I like the cut of your jib. As the son of a civil engineer, I was doing long division when most kids were wiping snot and learning how to tie their shoes. I got kicked out of a stats class for arguing with my teach. (I was a sophomore in a college level class). Alot of so called "math" is no more than guess, postulation, and a whole lot of glad handing. Sirgey brin and Larry page have done more for stats and chaos theory in the last ~20 years than Fisher or tukey ever did, as far as real world application.....and I'm drunk. shiat, I was going somewhere with that. Either way, you are a lovely shade of red3 I think.

I am retired and I've smoked some pot. I can't even go outside and smash snow. So...

Mathematics is a language. Few people ever learn it as a language. Most people only learn a subset, called Arithmetic. They learn by rote. They're not taught it as a language. They're taught formula but not logic. They're given instructions but never told why. Truthfully, not many people understand why.

There are mathematical concepts that I can't even fully comprehend. There's a dude who's much smarter than I am, so I defer to him, who posits that you can divide infinity in half. Yeah... He's even got some sort of math to prove it. He's not even modern. I'm stoned and forgot his name. I think his book was in the 1870s. I think I have a copy.

Anyhow, it's pretty neat. I share a language with physicists. I'm not a physicist. I should make that clear. This means I have a different perspective, than some others. I kinda wish more people understood the language.

It's important to note that mathematics is a language. It can tell lies. It can tell stories. It can even tell jokes, but you probably don't want to hear them. I can prove that 0.999...=1. I can tell horrible, horrible lies with mathematics.


I like to tell people spooky stuff like how there are ghosts within the real number system - ineffable, indescribable creatures.  The horror!
 
2017-04-14 05:32:08 AM  

bonobo73: I like to tell people spooky stuff like how there are ghosts within the real number system - ineffable, indescribable creatures.  The horror!


I like to tell people that the ones who get work done, stop after a certain amount of numbers. They're not doing the complete math. No... No, they are not.

That's okay, really. It works, for the most part. However, we have a point where we call it mathematically impossible. Which is, of course, a horrible description. It just means that it's so unlikely to happen, we consider it impossible.

The very odds of you and I, existing in this space and time, at this specific time in which the planet will harbor life, at this age of the universe, and having this conversation are so unlikely, that they're considered a mathematical impossibility.

Yet, here we are.
 
2017-04-14 07:09:50 AM  
Just remember that Chaos Theory is humanity realizing that we're just not that smart.
 
2017-04-14 07:50:41 AM  

UnspokenVoice: Bluemoons: You sir, I like the cut of your jib. As the son of a civil engineer, I was doing long division when most kids were wiping snot and learning how to tie their shoes. I got kicked out of a stats class for arguing with my teach. (I was a sophomore in a college level class). Alot of so called "math" is no more than guess, postulation, and a whole lot of glad handing. Sirgey brin and Larry page have done more for stats and chaos theory in the last ~20 years than Fisher or tukey ever did, as far as real world application.....and I'm drunk. shiat, I was going somewhere with that. Either way, you are a lovely shade of red3 I think.

I am retired and I've smoked some pot. I can't even go outside and smash snow. So...

Mathematics is a language. Few people ever learn it as a language. Most people only learn a subset, called Arithmetic. They learn by rote. They're not taught it as a language. They're taught formula but not logic. They're given instructions but never told why. Truthfully, not many people understand why.

There are mathematical concepts that I can't even fully comprehend. There's a dude who's much smarter than I am, so I defer to him, who posits that you can divide infinity in half. Yeah... He's even got some sort of math to prove it. He's not even modern. I'm stoned and forgot his name. I think his book was in the 1870s. I think I have a copy.

Anyhow, it's pretty neat. I share a language with physicists. I'm not a physicist. I should make that clear. This means I have a different perspective, than some others. I kinda wish more people understood the language.

It's important to note that mathematics is a language. It can tell lies. It can tell stories. It can even tell jokes, but you probably don't want to hear them. I can prove that 0.999...=1. I can tell horrible, horrible lies with mathematics.


George or was it Georg Cantor?
 
2017-04-14 08:09:49 AM  

Mawson of the Antarctic: UnspokenVoice: Bluemoons: You sir, I like the cut of your jib. As the son of a civil engineer, I was doing long division when most kids were wiping snot and learning how to tie their shoes. I got kicked out of a stats class for arguing with my teach. (I was a sophomore in a college level class). Alot of so called "math" is no more than guess, postulation, and a whole lot of glad handing. Sirgey brin and Larry page have done more for stats and chaos theory in the last ~20 years than Fisher or tukey ever did, as far as real world application.....and I'm drunk. shiat, I was going somewhere with that. Either way, you are a lovely shade of red3 I think.

I am retired and I've smoked some pot. I can't even go outside and smash snow. So...

Mathematics is a language. Few people ever learn it as a language. Most people only learn a subset, called Arithmetic. They learn by rote. They're not taught it as a language. They're taught formula but not logic. They're given instructions but never told why. Truthfully, not many people understand why.

There are mathematical concepts that I can't even fully comprehend. There's a dude who's much smarter than I am, so I defer to him, who posits that you can divide infinity in half. Yeah... He's even got some sort of math to prove it. He's not even modern. I'm stoned and forgot his name. I think his book was in the 1870s. I think I have a copy.

Anyhow, it's pretty neat. I share a language with physicists. I'm not a physicist. I should make that clear. This means I have a different perspective, than some others. I kinda wish more people understood the language.

It's important to note that mathematics is a language. It can tell lies. It can tell stories. It can even tell jokes, but you probably don't want to hear them. I can prove that 0.999...=1. I can tell horrible, horrible lies with mathematics.

George or was it Georg Cantor?


Yup. Cantor, the crazy bastard, was a genius. He was insane, but he was smart. I'm not sure what predated what but I notice a trend in higher order academia.

Thank you for reminding me of his name. Though, he really wasn't the first. I think there's another fella and then there's Zeno's Paradoxes from Plato which touch on the idea of infinite divisibility - which is not *quite* the same thing.

Plato was, "I can cut this in half - over and over again."
Cantor was, "Holy balls! What if we can cut infinity in half?"

And thoughts like this appear to have driven Cantor (even more) mad. Ol' Cantor was a blooming lunatic. Rumors abound of substance abuse and, frankly, I don't blame him. I don't blame him, one bit. None...

Now, for the most part, infinity is not a number... Mostly... But it exists as a concept. As a concept, surely we can quantify it? What is infinity plus one?

Math tells horrible, horrible lies. I'm pretty sure you know this but I'm filling the thread up with silliness. I took a nap and everything. It was pretty sweet. I'm gonna have some pot and some breakfast. I wasn't doing anything better.

Anyhow, I'm guessing you know this - or at least conceptualize it. A fun one is higher orders of Calculus teach you multiple types of infinity. It's a pretty sweet language.
 
2017-04-14 09:00:46 AM  
I just made a non-random decision never to visit that site again, because the ad at the to leaves less than half of the page for actual content until you find the weird magic that makes it go away.
 
2017-04-14 09:07:09 AM  

UnspokenVoice: Mawson of the Antarctic: UnspokenVoice: Bluemoons: You sir, I like the cut of your jib. As the son of a civil engineer, I was doing long division when most kids were wiping snot and learning how to tie their shoes. I got kicked out of a stats class for arguing with my teach. (I was a sophomore in a college level class). Alot of so called "math" is no more than guess, postulation, and a whole lot of glad handing. Sirgey brin and Larry page have done more for stats and chaos theory in the last ~20 years than Fisher or tukey ever did, as far as real world application.....and I'm drunk. shiat, I was going somewhere with that. Either way, you are a lovely shade of red3 I think.

I am retired and I've smoked some pot. I can't even go outside and smash snow. So...

Mathematics is a language. Few people ever learn it as a language. Most people only learn a subset, called Arithmetic. They learn by rote. They're not taught it as a language. They're taught formula but not logic. They're given instructions but never told why. Truthfully, not many people understand why.

There are mathematical concepts that I can't even fully comprehend. There's a dude who's much smarter than I am, so I defer to him, who posits that you can divide infinity in half. Yeah... He's even got some sort of math to prove it. He's not even modern. I'm stoned and forgot his name. I think his book was in the 1870s. I think I have a copy.

Anyhow, it's pretty neat. I share a language with physicists. I'm not a physicist. I should make that clear. This means I have a different perspective, than some others. I kinda wish more people understood the language.

It's important to note that mathematics is a language. It can tell lies. It can tell stories. It can even tell jokes, but you probably don't want to hear them. I can prove that 0.999...=1. I can tell horrible, horrible lies with mathematics.

George or was it Georg Cantor?

Yup. Cantor, the crazy bastard, was a genius. He was insane, but he was smart. I'm ...


It reminded me of a poem I wrote years ago:

Isaac Newton,
part-time warlock,
dressed as a man
from Porlock. Pascal
who was rarely paschal,
got the flu
alone in his room.
Georg Cantor had an affinity
for getting lost in infinity. 
Bertie Russell's logical muscles
made one and one
make two.
 
2017-04-14 09:32:02 AM  

Mawson of the Antarctic: It reminded me of a poem I wrote years ago:

Isaac Newton,
part-time warlock,
dressed as a man
from Porlock. Pascal
who was rarely paschal,
got the flu
alone in his room.
Georg Cantor had an affinity
for getting lost in infinity.
Bertie Russell's logical muscles
made one and one
make two.


Nice. Nice, indeed. There's a rich and storied history with mathematics. I used to hate math. No, really, I hated it. It's still hard but I'm pretty fluent in it. There's some conceptual things that I have issues with and I did not remain in academia. I went off and modeled traffic.

Anyhow, seeing as I'm filling the thread with gibberish, you get some too! Just what you always wanted.

See, I hated math - as I was saying, before I digressed, and this all changed. I am in a unique position to point and be able to say, "This is exactly where my life changed."

I was young and pretty stupid. Nobody had taught me any math - except by rote. I'm busy finding the area of triangles. I'm having a horrible time at it. Horrible... Like I said, I was stupid.

Anyhow, a teacher came up behind me and said, "You know, you can just square these specific triangles off, find the area of it, and divide in half." I'm pretty sure that's close to verbatim.

For whatever reason, that was the moment it "clicked." That's when I realized what the language was actually saying. That's the moment that I understood that it was a language. That moment changed my life forever.

Don't get me wrong, I still hated math, I just can say that's when it clicked and I understood what I was doing - and why, at least in that limited circumstance. It was then that I realized that it was an expressive language.

At any rate, I'd later learn the language, the history, and a bunch of other silly things. It's really fascinating stuff.
 
2017-04-14 12:31:12 PM  

UnspokenVoice: bonobo73: I like to tell people spooky stuff like how there are ghosts within the real number system - ineffable, indescribable creatures.  The horror!

I like to tell people that the ones who get work done, stop after a certain amount of numbers. They're not doing the complete math. No... No, they are not.

That's okay, really. It works, for the most part. However, we have a point where we call it mathematically impossible. Which is, of course, a horrible description. It just means that it's so unlikely to happen, we consider it impossible.

The very odds of you and I, existing in this space and time, at this specific time in which the planet will harbor life, at this age of the universe, and having this conversation are so unlikely, that they're considered a mathematical impossibility.

Yet, here we are.


So, this gave me an idea for how to propel a space ship...
 
2017-04-14 03:10:32 PM  
Ok, 38 D6.  Am I counting Stun, or Body?
 
2017-04-14 05:30:03 PM  

VogonPoet: So, this gave me an idea for how to propel a space ship...


"It won't work."
 
2017-04-14 05:50:29 PM  

UnspokenVoice: VogonPoet: So, this gave me an idea for how to propel a space ship...

"It won't work."


You're telling me it's infinitely improbable?
 
2017-04-14 06:37:43 PM  

VogonPoet: You're telling me it's infinitely improbable?


"I don't know why you'd bother."
 
2017-04-15 01:05:54 AM  

Cthulhu_is_my_homeboy: New Farkin User Name: we've no farking clue what's really going on down there.

God doesn't play dice with the universe.

The old bastard prefers to draw cards.


"and the dice are loaded".
 
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