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(McClatchy DC)   "Establishment Democrats aim to adopt the anti-Trump movement", perhaps consider becoming liberal again but not too soon because they wouldn't want to rush into standing for something, or winning elections, or anything scary like that   ( mcclatchydc.com) divider line
    More: Obvious, Barack Obama, Tisch Sussman, American Progress, President of the United States, Los Angeles, President Donald Trump, Emily Tisch Sussman, Chicago  
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465 clicks; posted to Politics » on 20 Mar 2017 at 5:51 PM (34 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2017-03-20 04:47:11 PM  
I've totally lost hope in everything. I fully expect this to go horribly wrong, where instead of adopting practical and pragmatic opposition to Trumpism in particular and the proven failed ideas of Reaganism generally, it'll instead be a sh*tshow where they glom on to every crackpot "Russia made America racist and stupid with this ONE WEIRD TRICK" gimmick and pay a bunch of lip service to people's anger without actually trying to lead or formulate a workable agenda besides "NO U".
 
2017-03-20 04:49:06 PM  
What are they gonna do?

Distribute a flyer?

Make up a bumper sticker or two?

Fight back against a sea of RW disinformation with a thimble full of truth delivered politely in a quiet voice?

Do tell.
 
2017-03-20 05:25:44 PM  
When the DNC voted against bringing back Obama's ban on lobbyist money, I knew the party establishment wasn't really interested in fighting Trump and his form of crony capitalism.

Big money before party before country.
 
2017-03-20 05:28:13 PM  
Hillary won the popular vote easily, something many don't want to accept on both sides of the aisle.

Liberal movements no matter how center or far left they do will not affect the rust belt and it doesn't seem to take much promises to selfish and unrealistic voters to swing the areas of states that once went blue and were key to keeping them blue. Example the areas surrounding Philadelphia had a large play in making Pennsylvania  (where I live) go blue and stay blue for decades and look what happens when that area alone happened to go red again.

People want to blame Hillary, the Democratic party and it's values, but the promises that manages to swing some of these states were the complete opposite of societal uplifting and more about "What's mines is mines and what isn't should be cause I'm not one of those *insert stereotype here* on welfare and destroying the system sitting on their rears."
 
2017-03-20 05:33:25 PM  

Rennisa: Hillary won the popular vote easily, something many don't want to accept on both sides of the aisle.

Liberal movements no matter how center or far left they do will not affect the rust belt and it doesn't seem to take much promises to selfish and unrealistic voters to swing the areas of states that once went blue and were key to keeping them blue. Example the areas surrounding Philadelphia had a large play in making Pennsylvania  (where I live) go blue and stay blue for decades and look what happens when that area alone happened to go red again.

People want to blame Hillary, the Democratic party and it's values, but the promises that manages to swing some of these states were the complete opposite of societal uplifting and more about "What's mines is mines and what isn't should be cause I'm not one of those *insert stereotype here* on welfare and destroying the system sitting on their rears."


Yep.

The narrative that people were desperate enough to vote Trump needs to die.  Desperation has nothing to do with it.  Greed does.  A whole hell of a lot of greed, actually.
 
2017-03-20 05:34:02 PM  

Rennisa: Hillary won the popular vote easily, something many don't want to accept on both sides of the aisle.


Who on the left doesn't want to accept that Hillary won the popular vote?
 
2017-03-20 05:34:46 PM  

Rennisa: Hillary won the popular vote easily, something many don't want to accept on both sides of the aisle.

Liberal movements no matter how center or far left they do will not affect the rust belt and it doesn't seem to take much promises to selfish and unrealistic voters to swing the areas of states that once went blue and were key to keeping them blue. Example the areas surrounding Philadelphia had a large play in making Pennsylvania  (where I live) go blue and stay blue for decades and look what happens when that area alone happened to go red again.

People want to blame Hillary, the Democratic party and it's values, but the promises that manages to swing some of these states were the complete opposite of societal uplifting and more about "What's mines is mines and what isn't should be cause I'm not one of those *insert stereotype here* on welfare and destroying the system sitting on their rears."


They lost states Obama handily won in both 2008 and 2012, many of which hadn't voted Republican since the 80s.
 
2017-03-20 05:44:06 PM  

Bith Set Me Up: Rennisa: Hillary won the popular vote easily, something many don't want to accept on both sides of the aisle.

Liberal movements no matter how center or far left they do will not affect the rust belt and it doesn't seem to take much promises to selfish and unrealistic voters to swing the areas of states that once went blue and were key to keeping them blue. Example the areas surrounding Philadelphia had a large play in making Pennsylvania  (where I live) go blue and stay blue for decades and look what happens when that area alone happened to go red again.

People want to blame Hillary, the Democratic party and it's values, but the promises that manages to swing some of these states were the complete opposite of societal uplifting and more about "What's mines is mines and what isn't should be cause I'm not one of those *insert stereotype here* on welfare and destroying the system sitting on their rears."

They lost states Obama handily won in both 2008 and 2012, many of which hadn't voted Republican since the 80s.


They voted for Obama twice.  Good.  I'll start passing out cookies...

...as soon as they explain why they bought into a lie, and a goddamn terrible one at that.
 
2017-03-20 05:46:21 PM  

Clutch2013: Bith Set Me Up: Rennisa: Hillary won the popular vote easily, something many don't want to accept on both sides of the aisle.

Liberal movements no matter how center or far left they do will not affect the rust belt and it doesn't seem to take much promises to selfish and unrealistic voters to swing the areas of states that once went blue and were key to keeping them blue. Example the areas surrounding Philadelphia had a large play in making Pennsylvania  (where I live) go blue and stay blue for decades and look what happens when that area alone happened to go red again.

People want to blame Hillary, the Democratic party and it's values, but the promises that manages to swing some of these states were the complete opposite of societal uplifting and more about "What's mines is mines and what isn't should be cause I'm not one of those *insert stereotype here* on welfare and destroying the system sitting on their rears."

They lost states Obama handily won in both 2008 and 2012, many of which hadn't voted Republican since the 80s.

They voted for Obama twice.  Good.  I'll start passing out cookies...

...as soon as they explain why they bought into a lie, and a goddamn terrible one at that.


Thats because they are sexist backwards white folk

/Just getting that outta the way because its bounda come up
 
2017-03-20 05:46:21 PM  

Clutch2013: Bith Set Me Up: Rennisa: Hillary won the popular vote easily, something many don't want to accept on both sides of the aisle.

Liberal movements no matter how center or far left they do will not affect the rust belt and it doesn't seem to take much promises to selfish and unrealistic voters to swing the areas of states that once went blue and were key to keeping them blue. Example the areas surrounding Philadelphia had a large play in making Pennsylvania  (where I live) go blue and stay blue for decades and look what happens when that area alone happened to go red again.

People want to blame Hillary, the Democratic party and it's values, but the promises that manages to swing some of these states were the complete opposite of societal uplifting and more about "What's mines is mines and what isn't should be cause I'm not one of those *insert stereotype here* on welfare and destroying the system sitting on their rears."

They lost states Obama handily won in both 2008 and 2012, many of which hadn't voted Republican since the 80s.

They voted for Obama twice.  Good.  I'll start passing out cookies...

...as soon as they explain why they bought into a lie, and a goddamn terrible one at that.


And because a depressingly low number of people here will actually know who I'm referring to, I am talking about 45.
 
2017-03-20 05:49:02 PM  
I fully admit that I have no idea what direction the Democrats should go. If you go too liberal I don't know if they'll get enough votes. But I base that on our historically bad turnout as a country. Maybe Bernie could have turned out the vote in the purple states? I don't know. I've not read an article or heard any convincing argument on the best way forward for the opposition party.

My greatest fear is that they wind up like the British Labor Party and we get stuck with this asshole and his crew for 8 fun filled years.

People smarter than me better figure this shiat out and quick.
 
2017-03-20 05:49:11 PM  

Clutch2013: Bith Set Me Up: Rennisa: Hillary won the popular vote easily, something many don't want to accept on both sides of the aisle.

Liberal movements no matter how center or far left they do will not affect the rust belt and it doesn't seem to take much promises to selfish and unrealistic voters to swing the areas of states that once went blue and were key to keeping them blue. Example the areas surrounding Philadelphia had a large play in making Pennsylvania  (where I live) go blue and stay blue for decades and look what happens when that area alone happened to go red again.

People want to blame Hillary, the Democratic party and it's values, but the promises that manages to swing some of these states were the complete opposite of societal uplifting and more about "What's mines is mines and what isn't should be cause I'm not one of those *insert stereotype here* on welfare and destroying the system sitting on their rears."

They lost states Obama handily won in both 2008 and 2012, many of which hadn't voted Republican since the 80s.

They voted for Obama twice.  Good.  I'll start passing out cookies...

...as soon as they explain why they bought into a lie, and a goddamn terrible one at that.


Read the rest of the post: "many of which hadn't voted Republican since the 80s." So, they supported Clinton in both 1992 and '96, as well as Gore and Kerry during both 2000 and 2004.
 
2017-03-20 05:50:47 PM  

NewportBarGuy: I fully admit that I have no idea what direction the Democrats should go. If you go too liberal I don't know if they'll get enough votes. But I base that on our historically bad turnout as a country. Maybe Bernie could have turned out the vote in the purple states? I don't know. I've not read an article or heard any convincing argument on the best way forward for the opposition party.

My greatest fear is that they wind up like the British Labor Party and we get stuck with this asshole and his crew for 8 fun filled years.

People smarter than me better figure this shiat out and quick.


Trump won by claiming the game was rigged against him

Dems can do that here

With all the gerrymandering and the EC, it will have credibility

Railing against the system wins votes in America
 
2017-03-20 05:55:39 PM  
Liberals are great at winning President of the Coasts
 
2017-03-20 05:58:09 PM  

Clutch2013: Rennisa: Hillary won the popular vote easily, something many don't want to accept on both sides of the aisle.

Liberal movements no matter how center or far left they do will not affect the rust belt and it doesn't seem to take much promises to selfish and unrealistic voters to swing the areas of states that once went blue and were key to keeping them blue. Example the areas surrounding Philadelphia had a large play in making Pennsylvania  (where I live) go blue and stay blue for decades and look what happens when that area alone happened to go red again.

People want to blame Hillary, the Democratic party and it's values, but the promises that manages to swing some of these states were the complete opposite of societal uplifting and more about "What's mines is mines and what isn't should be cause I'm not one of those *insert stereotype here* on welfare and destroying the system sitting on their rears."

Yep.

The narrative that people were desperate enough to vote Trump needs to die.  Desperation has nothing to do with it.  Greed does.  A whole hell of a lot of greed, actually.


They were desperate enough to latch onto someone that hammered, over and over in his speeches, that he would help them. 

They are greedy enough to look after themselves, and their families, first. 

We say its a lot of, "fark you, I got mine", but it is more a, "where the fark did mine go..?"

Guess what? Policies that help the rural areas will help the cities. We need to figure out how to speak to the rural communities again.
 
2017-03-20 05:58:14 PM  
This thread will end well.
 
2017-03-20 05:59:00 PM  

cman: NewportBarGuy: I fully admit that I have no idea what direction the Democrats should go. If you go too liberal I don't know if they'll get enough votes. But I base that on our historically bad turnout as a country. Maybe Bernie could have turned out the vote in the purple states? I don't know. I've not read an article or heard any convincing argument on the best way forward for the opposition party.

My greatest fear is that they wind up like the British Labor Party and we get stuck with this asshole and his crew for 8 fun filled years.

People smarter than me better figure this shiat out and quick.

Trump won by claiming the game was rigged against him

Dems can do that here

With all the gerrymandering and the EC, it will have credibility

Railing against the system wins votes in America


Well, the system DOES suck....
 
2017-03-20 05:59:12 PM  
Unbelievable. They are literally the only group that could fark this up.

Get out of the way and let the GOP own it!!! We can hang everything he does on the neck of the GOP. Unless these twats fark it up.

"never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake."
 
2017-03-20 06:00:57 PM  

the_innkeeper: Clutch2013: Rennisa: Hillary won the popular vote easily, something many don't want to accept on both sides of the aisle.

Liberal movements no matter how center or far left they do will not affect the rust belt and it doesn't seem to take much promises to selfish and unrealistic voters to swing the areas of states that once went blue and were key to keeping them blue. Example the areas surrounding Philadelphia had a large play in making Pennsylvania  (where I live) go blue and stay blue for decades and look what happens when that area alone happened to go red again.

People want to blame Hillary, the Democratic party and it's values, but the promises that manages to swing some of these states were the complete opposite of societal uplifting and more about "What's mines is mines and what isn't should be cause I'm not one of those *insert stereotype here* on welfare and destroying the system sitting on their rears."

Yep.

The narrative that people were desperate enough to vote Trump needs to die.  Desperation has nothing to do with it.  Greed does.  A whole hell of a lot of greed, actually.

They were desperate enough to latch onto someone that hammered, over and over in his speeches, that he would help them. 

They are greedy enough to look after themselves, and their families, first. 

We say its a lot of, "fark you, I got mine", but it is more a, "where the fark did mine go..?"

Guess what? Policies that help the rural areas will help the cities. We need to figure out how to speak to the rural communities again.


Policues like the ACA helped rural areas. Policies like a strong social safetynet help rural areas. Policies that protect the environment help rural aress.
 
2017-03-20 06:01:11 PM  

Lost Thought 00: Liberals are great at winning President of the Coasts


Yea....where the majority of the people live.
 
2017-03-20 06:03:16 PM  

the_innkeeper: Clutch2013: Rennisa: Hillary won the popular vote easily, something many don't want to accept on both sides of the aisle.

Liberal movements no matter how center or far left they do will not affect the rust belt and it doesn't seem to take much promises to selfish and unrealistic voters to swing the areas of states that once went blue and were key to keeping them blue. Example the areas surrounding Philadelphia had a large play in making Pennsylvania  (where I live) go blue and stay blue for decades and look what happens when that area alone happened to go red again.

People want to blame Hillary, the Democratic party and it's values, but the promises that manages to swing some of these states were the complete opposite of societal uplifting and more about "What's mines is mines and what isn't should be cause I'm not one of those *insert stereotype here* on welfare and destroying the system sitting on their rears."

Yep.

The narrative that people were desperate enough to vote Trump needs to die.  Desperation has nothing to do with it.  Greed does.  A whole hell of a lot of greed, actually.

They were desperate enough to latch onto someone that hammered, over and over in his speeches, that he would help them. 

They are greedy enough to look after themselves, and their families, first. 

We say its a lot of, "fark you, I got mine", but it is more a, "where the fark did mine go..?"

Guess what? Policies that help the rural areas will help the cities. We need to figure out how to speak to the rural communities again.


My dad, a lifelong union Steelworker who voted for the Democrats his whole life, went for Trump this time around.  Why?  Because Trump said he'd bring back those Steel and coal jobs that the Democrats ignored....yes, IGNORED.
 
2017-03-20 06:04:09 PM  
I said it in another thread where it's probably going to go unread:  At this point, the Democrats are the Wiemar.  They're completely unequipped for what the Republicans are doing and their incompetence is going to be the end of the US as we know it.
 
2017-03-20 06:05:12 PM  

Archidude: the_innkeeper: Clutch2013: Rennisa: Hillary won the popular vote easily, something many don't want to accept on both sides of the aisle.

Liberal movements no matter how center or far left they do will not affect the rust belt and it doesn't seem to take much promises to selfish and unrealistic voters to swing the areas of states that once went blue and were key to keeping them blue. Example the areas surrounding Philadelphia had a large play in making Pennsylvania  (where I live) go blue and stay blue for decades and look what happens when that area alone happened to go red again.

People want to blame Hillary, the Democratic party and it's values, but the promises that manages to swing some of these states were the complete opposite of societal uplifting and more about "What's mines is mines and what isn't should be cause I'm not one of those *insert stereotype here* on welfare and destroying the system sitting on their rears."

Yep.

The narrative that people were desperate enough to vote Trump needs to die.  Desperation has nothing to do with it.  Greed does.  A whole hell of a lot of greed, actually.

They were desperate enough to latch onto someone that hammered, over and over in his speeches, that he would help them. 

They are greedy enough to look after themselves, and their families, first. 

We say its a lot of, "fark you, I got mine", but it is more a, "where the fark did mine go..?"

Guess what? Policies that help the rural areas will help the cities. We need to figure out how to speak to the rural communities again.

Policues like the ACA helped rural areas. Policies like a strong social safetynet help rural areas. Policies that protect the environment help rural aress.


Now, tell them that, and stop running away from the policies come election season.

The DNC has for far too long let the GOP control the narrative.

Guess what? They have a 30 year head start in mass media. The DNC has to get their message out and break the stronghold.
 
2017-03-20 06:05:22 PM  

the_innkeeper: We need to figure out how to speak to the rural communities again.


Apparently, lie to them and promise unrealistic things.
 
2017-03-20 06:05:39 PM  

raerae1980: the_innkeeper: Clutch2013: Rennisa: Hillary won the popular vote easily, something many don't want to accept on both sides of the aisle.

Liberal movements no matter how center or far left they do will not affect the rust belt and it doesn't seem to take much promises to selfish and unrealistic voters to swing the areas of states that once went blue and were key to keeping them blue. Example the areas surrounding Philadelphia had a large play in making Pennsylvania  (where I live) go blue and stay blue for decades and look what happens when that area alone happened to go red again.

People want to blame Hillary, the Democratic party and it's values, but the promises that manages to swing some of these states were the complete opposite of societal uplifting and more about "What's mines is mines and what isn't should be cause I'm not one of those *insert stereotype here* on welfare and destroying the system sitting on their rears."

Yep.

The narrative that people were desperate enough to vote Trump needs to die.  Desperation has nothing to do with it.  Greed does.  A whole hell of a lot of greed, actually.

They were desperate enough to latch onto someone that hammered, over and over in his speeches, that he would help them. 

They are greedy enough to look after themselves, and their families, first. 

We say its a lot of, "fark you, I got mine", but it is more a, "where the fark did mine go..?"

Guess what? Policies that help the rural areas will help the cities. We need to figure out how to speak to the rural communities again.

My dad, a lifelong union Steelworker who voted for the Democrats his whole life, went for Trump this time around.  Why?  Because Trump said he'd bring back those Steel and coal jobs that the Democrats ignored....yes, IGNORED.


Those jobs siimpy are not coming back under any circumstances. That's  the hard truth. Would you and your father prefer to be lied to?
 
2017-03-20 06:06:23 PM  

Rennisa: Hillary won the popular vote easily, something many don't want to accept on both sides of the aisle.

Liberal movements no matter how center or far left they do will not affect the rust belt and it doesn't seem to take much promises to selfish and unrealistic voters to swing the areas of states that once went blue and were key to keeping them blue. Example the areas surrounding Philadelphia had a large play in making Pennsylvania  (where I live) go blue and stay blue for decades and look what happens when that area alone happened to go red again.

People want to blame Hillary, the Democratic party and it's values, but the promises that manages to swing some of these states were the complete opposite of societal uplifting and more about "What's mines is mines and what isn't should be cause I'm not one of those *insert stereotype here* on welfare and destroying the system sitting on their rears."


HRC lost through her own hubris. End of story.
 
2017-03-20 06:06:26 PM  
Oh yeahhhhh.. Establishment Democrats are terrible.  So protest vote. Or just as effective, don't vote at all.  This is how Trump wins.  That'll show 'em!
 
2017-03-20 06:06:29 PM  

the_innkeeper: Clutch2013: Rennisa: Hillary won the popular vote easily, something many don't want to accept on both sides of the aisle.

Liberal movements no matter how center or far left they do will not affect the rust belt and it doesn't seem to take much promises to selfish and unrealistic voters to swing the areas of states that once went blue and were key to keeping them blue. Example the areas surrounding Philadelphia had a large play in making Pennsylvania  (where I live) go blue and stay blue for decades and look what happens when that area alone happened to go red again.

People want to blame Hillary, the Democratic party and it's values, but the promises that manages to swing some of these states were the complete opposite of societal uplifting and more about "What's mines is mines and what isn't should be cause I'm not one of those *insert stereotype here* on welfare and destroying the system sitting on their rears."

Yep.

The narrative that people were desperate enough to vote Trump needs to die.  Desperation has nothing to do with it.  Greed does.  A whole hell of a lot of greed, actually.

They were desperate enough to latch onto someone that hammered, over and over in his speeches, that he would help them. 

They are greedy enough to look after themselves, and their families, first. 

We say its a lot of, "fark you, I got mine", but it is more a, "where the fark did mine go..?"

Guess what? Policies that help the rural areas will help the cities. We need to figure out how to speak to the rural communities again.


Get rid of AM hate radio.

The problem isn't that no one can properly talk to rural whites, the problem is who they already believe.
 
2017-03-20 06:07:26 PM  

skyotter: the_innkeeper: We need to figure out how to speak to the rural communities again.

Apparently, lie to them and promise unrealistic things.


Is it unrealistic to be told that "we are going to fight for your jobs!"

Instead, clinton got busted saying, "we are going to put a lot of coal workers out of work"

Yeah, great messaging.
 
2017-03-20 06:07:59 PM  

raerae1980: Lost Thought 00: Liberals are great at winning President of the Coasts

Yea....where the majority of the people live.


Which is great if our country had a representative government.
 
2017-03-20 06:10:25 PM  
https://www.nationaljournal.com/s/649405?unlock=XDZICLLE1MJSYLP3

Trump voters are not interested in hearing Trump's economic agenda from Democrats.
 
2017-03-20 06:11:05 PM  

the_innkeeper: skyotter: the_innkeeper: We need to figure out how to speak to the rural communities again.

Apparently, lie to them and promise unrealistic things.

Is it unrealistic to be told that "we are going to fight for your jobs!"

Instead, clinton got busted saying, "we are going to put a lot of coal workers out of work"

Yeah, great messaging.


The truth is hard. Perhaps you prefer to be condescended to rather than facing reality.
 
2017-03-20 06:11:11 PM  

iheartscotch: Rennisa: Hillary won the popular vote easily, something many don't want to accept on both sides of the aisle.

Liberal movements no matter how center or far left they do will not affect the rust belt and it doesn't seem to take much promises to selfish and unrealistic voters to swing the areas of states that once went blue and were key to keeping them blue. Example the areas surrounding Philadelphia had a large play in making Pennsylvania  (where I live) go blue and stay blue for decades and look what happens when that area alone happened to go red again.

People want to blame Hillary, the Democratic party and it's values, but the promises that manages to swing some of these states were the complete opposite of societal uplifting and more about "What's mines is mines and what isn't should be cause I'm not one of those *insert stereotype here* on welfare and destroying the system sitting on their rears."

HRC lost through her own hubris. End of story.


I didn't know "James Comey" was spelled that way.
 
2017-03-20 06:12:03 PM  

GreatGlavinsGhost: the_innkeeper: Clutch2013: Rennisa: Hillary won the popular vote easily, something many don't want to accept on both sides of the aisle.

Liberal movements no matter how center or far left they do will not affect the rust belt and it doesn't seem to take much promises to selfish and unrealistic voters to swing the areas of states that once went blue and were key to keeping them blue. Example the areas surrounding Philadelphia had a large play in making Pennsylvania  (where I live) go blue and stay blue for decades and look what happens when that area alone happened to go red again.

People want to blame Hillary, the Democratic party and it's values, but the promises that manages to swing some of these states were the complete opposite of societal uplifting and more about "What's mines is mines and what isn't should be cause I'm not one of those *insert stereotype here* on welfare and destroying the system sitting on their rears."

Yep.

The narrative that people were desperate enough to vote Trump needs to die.  Desperation has nothing to do with it.  Greed does.  A whole hell of a lot of greed, actually.

They were desperate enough to latch onto someone that hammered, over and over in his speeches, that he would help them. 

They are greedy enough to look after themselves, and their families, first. 

We say its a lot of, "fark you, I got mine", but it is more a, "where the fark did mine go..?"

Guess what? Policies that help the rural areas will help the cities. We need to figure out how to speak to the rural communities again.

Get rid of AM hate radio.

The problem isn't that no one can properly talk to rural whites, the problem is who they already believe.


Not getting rid of AM radio. 

Need to counter it with people (locals) on the ground being the face of the party and saying, "here's what we are doing to help you. How can we get you to help you, too?" 

There is ZERO effort of the local D's to get out and talk to people right now. Now is the time to do it. Not every two years. The GOP has Rush et al Wormtonguing them on a daily basis. You can't beat it if you don't try to fight it.
 
2017-03-20 06:12:24 PM  

the_innkeeper: skyotter: the_innkeeper: We need to figure out how to speak to the rural communities again.

Apparently, lie to them and promise unrealistic things.

Is it unrealistic to be told that "we are going to fight for your jobs!"

Instead, clinton got busted saying, "we are going to put a lot of coal workers out of work"

Yeah, great messaging.


There is the problem.  Democrats speak in compound complex sentences and Republicans quote clauses.
 
2017-03-20 06:12:37 PM  

the_innkeeper: skyotter: the_innkeeper: We need to figure out how to speak to the rural communities again.

Apparently, lie to them and promise unrealistic things.

Is it unrealistic to be told that "we are going to fight for your jobs!"

Instead, clinton got busted saying, "we are going to put a lot of coal workers out of work"

Yeah, great messaging.


When your jobs have been rendered obsolete by changing technology and industry, yes, it is unrealistic to expect to be told that.
 
2017-03-20 06:13:28 PM  
Cool, more in-fighting on the left!!   We didn't have a hearing on Russian election tampering  today anyways, right?
 
2017-03-20 06:13:32 PM  
Perhaps these guys will get it right this time around:
progressivespring.com
www.justicedemocrats.com

cdn-az.allevents.in
www.brandnewcongress.org
 
2017-03-20 06:14:40 PM  

Archidude: the_innkeeper: skyotter: the_innkeeper: We need to figure out how to speak to the rural communities again.

Apparently, lie to them and promise unrealistic things.

Is it unrealistic to be told that "we are going to fight for your jobs!"

Instead, clinton got busted saying, "we are going to put a lot of coal workers out of work"

Yeah, great messaging.

The truth is hard. Perhaps you prefer to be condescended to rather than facing reality.


"Telling the truth" does not win you congressional seats or the presidency. 

"Telling people what they want to hear" does. Leave the details or your policy for actually governing.
 
2017-03-20 06:15:02 PM  

the_innkeeper: skyotter: the_innkeeper: We need to figure out how to speak to the rural communities again.

Apparently, lie to them and promise unrealistic things.

Is it unrealistic to be told that "we are going to fight for your jobs!"

Instead, clinton got busted saying, "we are going to put a lot of coal workers out of work"

Yeah, great messaging.


That actually was a good line, but she was too weaselly with it and took it back.  If that's your position (and it is the Democratic Party's position), you have to own it.

"Coal power plants give the young and the old diseases like asthma and lung cancer.  Yes, I want all of you to lose your jobs.  You need to get out of the Giving-Babies-Lung-Cancer business.  I'll all for spending tons of Federal money on job training for you to learn other lines of work, but if you insist on continuing to be in the Giving-Babies-Lung-Cancer business, don't expect my support!"

Note you don't even have to mention global warming here.
 
2017-03-20 06:15:27 PM  

the_innkeeper: GreatGlavinsGhost: the_innkeeper: Clutch2013: Rennisa: Hillary won the popular vote easily, something many don't want to accept on both sides of the aisle.

Liberal movements no matter how center or far left they do will not affect the rust belt and it doesn't seem to take much promises to selfish and unrealistic voters to swing the areas of states that once went blue and were key to keeping them blue. Example the areas surrounding Philadelphia had a large play in making Pennsylvania  (where I live) go blue and stay blue for decades and look what happens when that area alone happened to go red again.

People want to blame Hillary, the Democratic party and it's values, but the promises that manages to swing some of these states were the complete opposite of societal uplifting and more about "What's mines is mines and what isn't should be cause I'm not one of those *insert stereotype here* on welfare and destroying the system sitting on their rears."

Yep.

The narrative that people were desperate enough to vote Trump needs to die.  Desperation has nothing to do with it.  Greed does.  A whole hell of a lot of greed, actually.

They were desperate enough to latch onto someone that hammered, over and over in his speeches, that he would help them. 

They are greedy enough to look after themselves, and their families, first. 

We say its a lot of, "fark you, I got mine", but it is more a, "where the fark did mine go..?"

Guess what? Policies that help the rural areas will help the cities. We need to figure out how to speak to the rural communities again.

Get rid of AM hate radio.

The problem isn't that no one can properly talk to rural whites, the problem is who they already believe.

Not getting rid of AM radio. 

Need to counter it with people (locals) on the ground being the face of the party and saying, "here's what we are doing to help you. How can we get you to help you, too?" 

There is ZERO effort of the local D's to get out and talk to people right now. Now is the time to do it. Not every two years. The GOP has Rush et al Wormtonguing them on a daily basis. You can't beat it if you don't try to fight it.


Maybe if someone said something like this...

Look, we have serious economic problems in many parts of our country. And Roland is absolutely right. Instead of dividing people the way Donald Trump does, let's reunite around policies that will bring jobs and opportunities to all these underserved poor communities.

So for example, I'm the only candidate which has a policy about how to bring economic opportunity using clean renewable energy as the key into coal country. Because we're going to put a lot of coal miners and coal companies out of business, right?

And we're going to make it clear that we don't want to forget those people. Those people labored in those mines for generations, losing their health, often losing their lives to turn on our lights and power our factories.

Now we've got to move away from coal and all the other fossil fuels, but I don't want to move away from the people who did the best they could to produce the energy that we relied on.

So whether it's coal country or Indian country or poor urban areas, there is a lot of poverty in America. We have gone backwards. We were moving in the right direction. In the '90s, more people were lifted out of poverty than any time in recent history.

Because of the terrible economic policies of the Bush administration, President Obama was left with the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression, and people fell back into poverty because they lost jobs, they lost homes, they lost opportunities, and hope.

So I am passionate about this, which is why I have put forward specific plans about how we incentivize more jobs, more investment in poor communities, and put people to work.
 
2017-03-20 06:15:32 PM  

raerae1980: the_innkeeper: Clutch2013: Rennisa: Hillary won the popular vote easily, something many don't want to accept on both sides of the aisle.

Liberal movements no matter how center or far left they do will not affect the rust belt and it doesn't seem to take much promises to selfish and unrealistic voters to swing the areas of states that once went blue and were key to keeping them blue. Example the areas surrounding Philadelphia had a large play in making Pennsylvania  (where I live) go blue and stay blue for decades and look what happens when that area alone happened to go red again.

People want to blame Hillary, the Democratic party and it's values, but the promises that manages to swing some of these states were the complete opposite of societal uplifting and more about "What's mines is mines and what isn't should be cause I'm not one of those *insert stereotype here* on welfare and destroying the system sitting on their rears."

Yep.

The narrative that people were desperate enough to vote Trump needs to die.  Desperation has nothing to do with it.  Greed does.  A whole hell of a lot of greed, actually.

They were desperate enough to latch onto someone that hammered, over and over in his speeches, that he would help them. 

They are greedy enough to look after themselves, and their families, first. 

We say its a lot of, "fark you, I got mine", but it is more a, "where the fark did mine go..?"

Guess what? Policies that help the rural areas will help the cities. We need to figure out how to speak to the rural communities again.

My dad, a lifelong union Steelworker who voted for the Democrats his whole life, went for Trump this time around.  Why?  Because Trump said he'd bring back those Steel and coal jobs that the Democrats ignored....yes, IGNORED.


And your Dad will die before he realizes he got suckered into believing that the Republicans would ever actually bring those steel mills back. But he probably knew that from the get-go--this was more about him being a bitter entitled Boomer asshole pissed-off about dying and wanting to make things harder on young people in his bitterness. But this happens over and over again with the weakest elements of humanity so I don't blame him.
 
2017-03-20 06:15:46 PM  

Archidude: raerae1980: the_innkeeper: Clutch2013: Rennisa: Hillary won the popular vote easily, something many don't want to accept on both sides of the aisle.

Liberal movements no matter how center or far left they do will not affect the rust belt and it doesn't seem to take much promises to selfish and unrealistic voters to swing the areas of states that once went blue and were key to keeping them blue. Example the areas surrounding Philadelphia had a large play in making Pennsylvania  (where I live) go blue and stay blue for decades and look what happens when that area alone happened to go red again.

People want to blame Hillary, the Democratic party and it's values, but the promises that manages to swing some of these states were the complete opposite of societal uplifting and more about "What's mines is mines and what isn't should be cause I'm not one of those *insert stereotype here* on welfare and destroying the system sitting on their rears."

Yep.

The narrative that people were desperate enough to vote Trump needs to die.  Desperation has nothing to do with it.  Greed does.  A whole hell of a lot of greed, actually.

They were desperate enough to latch onto someone that hammered, over and over in his speeches, that he would help them. 

They are greedy enough to look after themselves, and their families, first. 

We say its a lot of, "fark you, I got mine", but it is more a, "where the fark did mine go..?"

Guess what? Policies that help the rural areas will help the cities. We need to figure out how to speak to the rural communities again.

My dad, a lifelong union Steelworker who voted for the Democrats his whole life, went for Trump this time around.  Why?  Because Trump said he'd bring back those Steel and coal jobs that the Democrats ignored....yes, IGNORED.

Those jobs siimpy are not coming back under any circumstances. That's  the hard truth. Would you and your father prefer to be lied to?


The problem here is that pointing this out to people who relied on those jobs does fark all to actually help them. There is a reason that factory and mining towns tend to turn into ghost towns when the factory or mine closes up: There is often no other compelling reason for people to live in those locations.

There are a lot of people who are either nearing retirement age or who are raising young children who are seeing the good paying jobs in their area dry up and are being told "Well, that's gone. You either need to take a minimum wage job that won't allow you to cover the costs associated with caring for a child or put anything away from your looming retirement, or you need to go back to school for a couple of years so you can get a decent job, and in the meantime you'll have little or no income to support your child or you'll never see a return on the investment of time and money that requires before you hit retirement age, assuming anyone with a decent job is even going to hire someone in your age bracket who doesn't have experience doing anything related to your new field."

All of that may be literally true, but it still means that all options are shiat. Between the person who truthfully tells you that you have no hope for anything good in your future, sorry, and the person who lies and tells you he can fix everything for you, a lot of people are going to go with the lies. They may not put food on the table, but the truth doesn't help much with that either and at least the lies sound hopeful.
 
2017-03-20 06:16:03 PM  

Krieghund: the_innkeeper: skyotter: the_innkeeper: We need to figure out how to speak to the rural communities again.

Apparently, lie to them and promise unrealistic things.

Is it unrealistic to be told that "we are going to fight for your jobs!"

Instead, clinton got busted saying, "we are going to put a lot of coal workers out of work"

Yeah, great messaging.

There is the problem.  Democrats speak in compound complex sentences and Republicans quote clauses.


Ever play apples to apples?

Ever been in a courtroom?

"Know your judge"

You have to speak to your audience.
 
2017-03-20 06:16:44 PM  

Geotpf: the_innkeeper: skyotter: the_innkeeper: We need to figure out how to speak to the rural communities again.

Apparently, lie to them and promise unrealistic things.

Is it unrealistic to be told that "we are going to fight for your jobs!"

Instead, clinton got busted saying, "we are going to put a lot of coal workers out of work"

Yeah, great messaging.

That actually was a good line, but she was too weaselly with it and took it back.  If that's your position (and it is the Democratic Party's position), you have to own it.

"Coal power plants give the young and the old diseases like asthma and lung cancer.  Yes, I want all of you to lose your jobs.  You need to get out of the Giving-Babies-Lung-Cancer business.  I'll all for spending tons of Federal money on job training for you to learn other lines of work, but if you insist on continuing to be in the Giving-Babies-Lung-Cancer business, don't expect my support!"

Note you don't even have to mention global warming here.


Except even smog being unhealthy is now "questionable" to some Republicans.
 
2017-03-20 06:17:00 PM  

the_innkeeper: Archidude: the_innkeeper: skyotter: the_innkeeper: We need to figure out how to speak to the rural communities again.

Apparently, lie to them and promise unrealistic things.

Is it unrealistic to be told that "we are going to fight for your jobs!"

Instead, clinton got busted saying, "we are going to put a lot of coal workers out of work"

Yeah, great messaging.

The truth is hard. Perhaps you prefer to be condescended to rather than facing reality.

"Telling the truth" does not win you congressional seats or the presidency. 

"Telling people what they want to hear" does. Leave the details or your policy for actually governing.


You know what else wins elections? Demonizing minorities. I assume you support that strategy as well, right?
 
2017-03-20 06:17:45 PM  
To beat the Republicans

We must become exactly like the Republicans
 
2017-03-20 06:19:20 PM  

Archidude: Look, we have serious economic problems in many parts of our country. And Roland is absolutely right. Instead of dividing people the way Donald Trump does, let's reunite around policies that will bring jobs and opportunities to all these underserved poor communities.

So for example, I'm the only candidate which has a policy about how to bring economic opportunity using clean renewable energy as the key into coal country. Because we're going to put a lot of coal miners and coal companies out of business, right?


yeah, that is terrible messaging. a bunch of non specifics followed by a fantastic pull quote for the opposition to run endlessly on the air. if anyone was dumb enough to actually say that and think it was brilliant i'd expect them to lose
 
2017-03-20 06:19:39 PM  
Archidude:

Maybe if someone said something like this...

Look, we have serious economic problems in many parts of our country. And Roland is absolutely right. Instead of dividing people the way Donald Trump does, let's reunite around policies that will bring jobs and opportunities to all these underserved poor communities.

So for example, I'm the only candidate which has a policy about how to bring economic opportunity using clean renewable energy as the key into coal country. Because we're going to put a lot of coal miners and coal companies out of business, right?

And we're going to make it clear that we don't want to forget those people. Those people labored in those mines for generations, losing their health, often losing their lives to turn on our lights and power our factories.

Now we've got to move away from coal and all the other fossil fuels, but I don't want to move away from the people who did the best they could to produce the energy that we relied on.

So whether it's coal country or Indian country or poor urban areas, there is a lot of poverty in America. We have gone backwards. We were moving in the right direction. In the '90s, more people were lifted out of poverty than any time in recent history.

Because of the terrible economic policies of the Bush administration, President Obama was left with the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression, and people fell back into poverty because they lost jobs, they lost homes, they lost opportunities, and hope.

So I am passionate about this, which is why I have put forward specific plans about how we incentivize more jobs, more investment in poor communities, and put people to work.


BORING!

You already lost people. 

I agree with you 100%, but that is not going to sell well on the colorado/nebraska/kansas triple-point of suckage.
 
2017-03-20 06:19:52 PM  
Anyone who claims that Democrats, and more specifically the last Democratic platform, was not liberal and didn't stand for anything needs to grow the fark up.
 
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