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(Vice)   Bitcoin is unsustainable   ( motherboard.vice.com) divider line
    More: Interesting, Economics, energy consumption, Energy, World energy resources and consumption, bitcoin, electricity, electricity consumption, credit card transaction  
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3327 clicks; posted to Geek » on 20 Mar 2017 at 12:20 PM (30 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2017-03-20 11:52:07 AM  
...and it always be, too. That is my prediction.
 
2017-03-20 11:55:38 AM  
Obvious tag high on some darknet heroin?
 
2017-03-20 12:15:04 PM  
It's a feature.
 
2017-03-20 12:15:52 PM  
Unsustanable?
 
2017-03-20 12:22:19 PM  
Subby accidentally a letter there.

And no duh, DNNTRTFA. Currency doesn't work unless its regulated by a responsible third party.
 
2017-03-20 12:24:16 PM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Unsustanable?


img.fark.net
Don't worry: Kyle will just put it on his credit card.
 
2017-03-20 12:26:42 PM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Unsustanable?


Stan disagrees.
 
2017-03-20 12:26:42 PM  

Aezetyr: Currency doesn't work unless its regulated by a responsible third party


The last time I checked, bitcoins were working just fine.  They work so well that even Wall Street is trying to get in on the game.  Now THAT is how you fark things up.
 
2017-03-20 12:30:48 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: Aezetyr: Currency doesn't work unless its regulated by a responsible third party

The last time I checked, bitcoins were working just fine.  They work so well that even Wall Street is trying to get in on the game.  Now THAT is how you fark things up.


I thought the street shot down their proposal? When even wall Street doesn't think it can repackage your proposal and sell it at AAA status to oligarchs in something-stan, you might have some flaws
 
2017-03-20 12:35:05 PM  
Ohhhhh they mean ecologically. Yeah... bitcoin so so mature and expansive that they need to worry about their ecological imprint. Surrrrre.
 
2017-03-20 12:36:05 PM  
fiat to replace a fiat?  who knew
 
2017-03-20 12:36:43 PM  

tlchwi02: Marcus Aurelius: Aezetyr: Currency doesn't work unless its regulated by a responsible third party

The last time I checked, bitcoins were working just fine.  They work so well that even Wall Street is trying to get in on the game.  Now THAT is how you fark things up.

I thought the street shot down their proposal? When even wall Street doesn't think it can repackage your proposal and sell it at AAA status to oligarchs in something-stan, you might have some flaws


The underlying technology known as the Blockchain is going forward with many different areas of banking/financing world.  It makes sense.  Take a listen to Planet Money on it from Feb.
http://www.npr.org/sections/money/2017/02/10/514577243/episode-753-bl​o​ckchain-gang

Bitcoin - or cryptocurrency in general - isn't going anywhere, and it will likely fork into two currencies, one with the old slow 'unsustainable' system, and a new one that fixes the problem with the old one.
 
2017-03-20 12:37:10 PM  

themindiswatching: Obvious tag high on some darknet heroin?


I remember a few years ago on Fark when we had a whole squad of Farkers telling us that Bitcoin was the future of money, and that very soon Bitcoin would be the most popular currency in the US, if not the world, and that people would be paid in bitcoin, buy things every day in bitcoin, and that bitcoin would eventually become a worldwide global currency that would displace national fiat currencies.

. . .and that never even got REMOTELY close to being true, for a number of reasons.

The fact that it's come out that the bulk of bitcoins are held by a fairly small number of people, creating a de-facto bitcoin cartel doesn't help either.
 
2017-03-20 12:40:25 PM  
I ain't freakin', I ain't fakin' this.
So shut up and let me go

/HEY!
 
2017-03-20 12:48:15 PM  
Pyramid schemes usually are.
 
2017-03-20 12:49:45 PM  

Silverstaff: themindiswatching: Obvious tag high on some darknet heroin?

I remember a few years ago on Fark when we had a whole squad of Farkers telling us that Bitcoin was the future of money, and that very soon Bitcoin would be the most popular currency in the US, if not the world, and that people would be paid in bitcoin, buy things every day in bitcoin, and that bitcoin would eventually become a worldwide global currency that would displace national fiat currencies.

. . .and that never even got REMOTELY close to being true, for a number of reasons.

The fact that it's come out that the bulk of bitcoins are held by a fairly small number of people, creating a de-facto bitcoin cartel doesn't help either.


I use Bitcoin to pay for all the stuff I buy in Second Life.
 
2017-03-20 12:53:56 PM  
I need to check my Mt. Gox account.
 
2017-03-20 01:02:17 PM  

Silverstaff: The fact that it's come out that the bulk of bitcoins are held by a fairly small number of people, creating a de-facto bitcoin cartel doesn't help either.


The important part is that you can still exchange bitcoins for heroin and machine guns.  That makes it very valuable to certain marketplaces where the buyers and sellers would prefer to remain anonymous.
 
2017-03-20 01:06:59 PM  
Bitcoin is an elegant pyramid scheme, nothing more.
 
2017-03-20 01:09:38 PM  
Duh.  For the same reason that basing your economy on the value of gold doesn't work.
 
2017-03-20 01:12:31 PM  
There will always be demand for easy money laundering methods. As an actual currency for making purchases?

encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com
 
2017-03-20 01:18:36 PM  

Silverstaff: I remember a few years ago on Fark when we had a whole squad of Farkers telling us that Bitcoin was the future of money, and that very soon Bitcoin would be the most popular currency in the US, if not the world, and that people would be paid in bitcoin, buy things every day in bitcoin, and that bitcoin would eventually become a worldwide global currency that would displace national fiat currencies.


"Squad"?  I remember it being like, three.  Like any other phenomenon talked about on Fark, there are always a tiny handful of people willing to buy fully into it.  Everyone else was somewhere between "niche use by the minority" and "crash and burn" assertions.
 
2017-03-20 01:23:21 PM  

Khellendros: Silverstaff: I remember a few years ago on Fark when we had a whole squad of Farkers telling us that Bitcoin was the future of money, and that very soon Bitcoin would be the most popular currency in the US, if not the world, and that people would be paid in bitcoin, buy things every day in bitcoin, and that bitcoin would eventually become a worldwide global currency that would displace national fiat currencies.

"Squad"?  I remember it being like, three.  Like any other phenomenon talked about on Fark, there are always a tiny handful of people willing to buy fully into it.  Everyone else was somewhere between "niche use by the minority" and "crash and burn" assertions.


More importantly, was that squad on fleek?
 
2017-03-20 01:31:43 PM  
Inherently deflationary currency backed by nothing but the enthusiasm of those holding said currency is unsustainable?! Why I never...  Good day to you, sir!

/I SAID GOOD DAY!!
//adjusts monocle
///buys kilo of heroin and minigun, then retreats to volcano lair
 
2017-03-20 01:34:32 PM  

Munden: Bitcoin - or cryptocurrency in general - isn't going anywhere, and it will likely fork into two currencies, one with the old slow 'unsustainable' system, and a new one that fixes the problem with the old one.


Fix old, not new!

WIthout a system to regulate or control bitcoin, I could well predict a future where someone (or several someones) figures out a way to manipulate that fact to their advantage.  When that happens, Bitcoin will become unreliable, or the perception of Bitcoin being reliable, will crash it.
 
2017-03-20 01:43:01 PM  

Munden: tlchwi02: Marcus Aurelius: Aezetyr: Currency doesn't work unless its regulated by a responsible third party

The last time I checked, bitcoins were working just fine.  They work so well that even Wall Street is trying to get in on the game.  Now THAT is how you fark things up.

I thought the street shot down their proposal? When even wall Street doesn't think it can repackage your proposal and sell it at AAA status to oligarchs in something-stan, you might have some flaws

The underlying technology known as the Blockchain is going forward with many different areas of banking/financing world.  It makes sense.  Take a listen to Planet Money on it from Feb.
http://www.npr.org/sections/money/2017/02/10/514577243/episode-753-blo​ckchain-gang

Bitcoin - or cryptocurrency in general - isn't going anywhere, and it will likely fork into two currencies, one with the old slow 'unsustainable' system, and a new one that fixes the problem with the old one.


That's a bunch of idiots (executives) being fascinated with a new word.

The blockchain is unsustainable.

First off the total number of bitcoins is hard capped. That's idiotic. It's a deflationary currency because it was invented and invested in by economic paranoids. Deflationary curriences *don't work* because they fail at being a currency, they become investment vehicles.

If I know my printed dollar bills will be worth more tomorrow than today, I hold them in wallet unless absolutely necessary. If I could get around having to trade dollars for goods&services I would, like barter or trade. Maybe trade some other markers around, like a second currency.

But really the core of the concept that the whole thing is predicated on is that BitCoin is anonymous and has no one controlling it. It supposedly achieves this by decentralizing the blockchain.

The blockchain is just a public ledger of all transactions. Of all people. Forever. As more people use bitcoin it grows. Unbounded.

Which means every single actor in the bitcoin economy achieves this decentralization by downloading the entire blockchain. That is becoming too big for everyone to download. So they only download "parts" of it.

WHICH MEANS the blockchain isn't decentralized at all. Only the big players will be able to host the blockchain in the future. The chances of colluding large actors like corporations or nation states to "own" the blockchain are high.

The rank and file user of bitcoin will have no recourse if they can't download the whole of the blockchain. If they have to trust some other more powerful user the whole thing falls apart.
 
2017-03-20 01:44:55 PM  
surely this will be the end of bitcoin he said, for the 7th time this year.
 
2017-03-20 01:48:06 PM  
Do wish I'd picked up a couple back when they were like a buck apiece. Oh well.
 
2017-03-20 01:54:09 PM  
I mined a part of a bitcoin many moons ago, then the computer I was working on died and poof.  Gone as quickly as it arrived.  Wonder how many other people have done that.
 
2017-03-20 01:55:46 PM  

Esc7: Munden: tlchwi02: Marcus Aurelius: Aezetyr: Currency doesn't work unless its regulated by a responsible third party

The last time I checked, bitcoins were working just fine.  They work so well that even Wall Street is trying to get in on the game.  Now THAT is how you fark things up.

I thought the street shot down their proposal? When even wall Street doesn't think it can repackage your proposal and sell it at AAA status to oligarchs in something-stan, you might have some flaws

The underlying technology known as the Blockchain is going forward with many different areas of banking/financing world.  It makes sense.  Take a listen to Planet Money on it from Feb.
http://www.npr.org/sections/money/2017/02/10/514577243/episode-753-blo​ckchain-gang

Bitcoin - or cryptocurrency in general - isn't going anywhere, and it will likely fork into two currencies, one with the old slow 'unsustainable' system, and a new one that fixes the problem with the old one.

That's a bunch of idiots (executives) being fascinated with a new word.

The blockchain is unsustainable.

First off the total number of bitcoins is hard capped. That's idiotic. It's a deflationary currency because it was invented and invested in by economic paranoids. Deflationary curriences *don't work* because they fail at being a currency, they become investment vehicles.

If I know my printed dollar bills will be worth more tomorrow than today, I hold them in wallet unless absolutely necessary. If I could get around having to trade dollars for goods&services I would, like barter or trade. Maybe trade some other markers around, like a second currency.

But really the core of the concept that the whole thing is predicated on is that BitCoin is anonymous and has no one controlling it. It supposedly achieves this by decentralizing the blockchain.

The blockchain is just a public ledger of all transactions. Of all people. Forever. As more people use bitcoin it grows. Unbounded.

Which means every single actor in the bitcoin economy achieves this decentralization by downloading the entire blockchain. That is becoming too big for everyone to download. So they only download "parts" of it.

WHICH MEANS the blockchain isn't decentralized at all. Only the big players will be able to host the blockchain in the future. The chances of colluding large actors like corporations or nation states to "own" the blockchain are high.

The rank and file user of bitcoin will have no recourse if they can't download the whole of the blockchain. If they have to trust some other more powerful user the whole thing falls apart.


Bitcoin is not anonymous.
 
2017-03-20 02:00:34 PM  

mcreadyblue: Bitcoin is not anonymous.


Okay, wallet addresses are not tied to any real world system, is that more correct? It's pseudonymous.
 
2017-03-20 02:11:43 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: Silverstaff: The fact that it's come out that the bulk of bitcoins are held by a fairly small number of people, creating a de-facto bitcoin cartel doesn't help either.

The important part is that you can still exchange bitcoins for heroin and machine guns.  That makes it very valuable to certain marketplaces where the buyers and sellers would prefer to remain anonymous.


The public nature of the blockchain means that that anonymity is an illusion.  If bitcoin were in any danger of displacing filthy fiat as the black market's currency of choice, the DEA could round people up faster than you can say "To the moon!!! ┗(°0°)┛",  As it is, they have more important shiat to deal with.
 
2017-03-20 02:51:09 PM  
Oh oh, IBM getting in on this blockchain stuff now too - https://arstechnica.com/business/2017/03/canadian-banks-chinese-ene​rgy​-company-to-use-ibms-blockchain-service/

Any of you other experts want to tell them how bad of an idea it is?
 
2017-03-20 02:55:31 PM  

Munden: Oh oh, IBM getting in on this blockchain stuff now too - https://arstechnica.com/business/2017/03/canadian-banks-chinese-ener​gy-company-to-use-ibms-blockchain-service/

Any of you other experts want to tell them how bad of an idea it is?


Distributed ledger/blockchain/distributed database things work fine if you've got (a) a closed community of users with (b) ample computing resources.
 
2017-03-20 03:16:06 PM  
Tens of millions of Americans were stupid enough to vote for Trump.

And they're all going to happily switch to Bitcoin as a currency?
 
2017-03-20 03:18:14 PM  

tlchwi02: Marcus Aurelius: Aezetyr: Currency doesn't work unless its regulated by a responsible third party

The last time I checked, bitcoins were working just fine.  They work so well that even Wall Street is trying to get in on the game.  Now THAT is how you fark things up.

I thought the street shot down their proposal? When even wall Street doesn't think it can repackage your proposal and sell it at AAA status to oligarchs in something-stan, you might have some flaws


Two different Issues.   The SEC said "nein" to the Winklevoss Twins proposal to create a bitcoin-indexed ETF recently, BT Wall Street REALLY likes the "blockchain" feature of Bitcoin and they want to copy THAT (not use bitcoins but create their own blackchain-enabled trading "currency"
 
2017-03-20 03:38:49 PM  
Bitcoin *might* be unsustainable at least in its current form, but blockchain technology is going to continue to develop. Sorry if you think otherwise, agree to disagree.

The concept of a deflationary currency isn't really that weird. Yes, people hold onto it as an investment vehicle. The idea of bitcoin as cash is a little fuzzy. The better analogy is not bitcoin to fiat but bitcoin to gold, a more or less finite resource that has very little real world 'use' but is held as inflation protection. And it's more or less accepted world wide.

As to cash, cash is worthless on its face. Completely worthless, except to burn in a fire. What makes it valuable is that everyone has accepted it as a way to lube the wheels of trade, so we don't need a barter system. Cash isn't backed up by anything.

Bitcoin still has some major flaws that require reckoning. It's mined extensively in China, transaction times are slow to process, and right now there's a huge fight looming between powerful cryptocurrency interests that might fork Bitcoin into two coins.

I personally think Ethereum is a more interesting technology. Not only is it a currency, but a blockchain platform that enables you to create and run distributed applications that don't 'go down' because of the distributed nature of it. It's still speculative, but I think it has a shot at long term adoption, and it's got backing from Microsoft, Intel, and JP Morgan, among others. IBM is releasing Hyperledger. Nope, sorry blockchain ain't going away.
 
2017-03-20 04:19:11 PM  

FrancoFile: Munden: Oh oh, IBM getting in on this blockchain stuff now too - https://arstechnica.com/business/2017/03/canadian-banks-chinese-ener​gy-company-to-use-ibms-blockchain-service/

Any of you other experts want to tell them how bad of an idea it is?

Distributed ledger/blockchain/distributed database things work fine if you've got (a) a closed community of users with (b) ample computing resources.


I'm trying to figure out what problem blockchain is trying to solve in finance and healthcare...healthcare particularly. I don't see a problem with current tech so why would I want to invest in this new thing?
 
2017-03-20 04:29:17 PM  
img.fark.net
Howard: Say, answer me this one, will you? Why is gold worth some twenty bucks an ounce?
Flophouse Bum: I don't know. Because it's scarce.
Howard: A thousand men, say, go searchin' for gold. After six months, one of them's lucky: one out of a thousand. His find represents not only his own labor, but that of nine hundred and ninety-nine others to boot. That's six thousand months, five hundred years, scramblin' over a mountain, goin' hungry and thirsty. An ounce of gold, mister, is worth what it is because of the human labor that went into the findin' and the gettin' of it.
Flophouse Bum: I never thought of it just like that.
Howard: Well, there's no other explanation, mister. Gold itself ain't good for nothing except making jewelry with and gold teeth.
 
2017-03-20 04:30:08 PM  

bdub77: Bitcoin *might* be unsustainable at least in its current form, but blockchain technology is going to continue to develop. Sorry if you think otherwise, agree to disagree.

The concept of a deflationary currency isn't really that weird. Yes, people hold onto it as an investment vehicle. The idea of bitcoin as cash is a little fuzzy. The better analogy is not bitcoin to fiat but bitcoin to gold, a more or less finite resource that has very little real world 'use' but is held as inflation protection. And it's more or less accepted world wide.

As to cash, cash is worthless on its face. Completely worthless, except to burn in a fire. What makes it valuable is that everyone has accepted it as a way to lube the wheels of trade, so we don't need a barter system. Cash isn't backed up by anything.

Bitcoin still has some major flaws that require reckoning. It's mined extensively in China, transaction times are slow to process, and right now there's a huge fight looming between powerful cryptocurrency interests that might fork Bitcoin into two coins.

I personally think Ethereum is a more interesting technology. Not only is it a currency, but a blockchain platform that enables you to create and run distributed applications that don't 'go down' because of the distributed nature of it. It's still speculative, but I think it has a shot at long term adoption, and it's got backing from Microsoft, Intel, and JP Morgan, among others. IBM is releasing Hyperledger. Nope, sorry blockchain ain't going away.


The reason why gold is kept as a long term investment is that gold will always be gold.  Nobody is creating any new elements which will suddenly take the place of gold.

Meanwhile, it is possible to create an endless number of new blockchain currencies at any time, which makes the long term value of any one highly questionable.  Bitcoin could be abandoned at any time for a new cryptocurrency.  The odds of them being worth anything at all in 20 years are extremely low.
 
2017-03-20 04:42:24 PM  
This is exactly why I hoard drachmas.
 
2017-03-20 05:10:10 PM  

bdub77: Bitcoin *might* be unsustainable at least in its current form, but blockchain technology is going to continue to develop. Sorry if you think otherwise, agree to disagree.

The concept of a deflationary currency isn't really that weird. Yes, people hold onto it as an investment vehicle. The idea of bitcoin as cash is a little fuzzy. The better analogy is not bitcoin to fiat but bitcoin to gold, a more or less finite resource that has very little real world 'use' but is held as inflation protection. And it's more or less accepted world wide.

As to cash, cash is worthless on its face. Completely worthless, except to burn in a fire. What makes it valuable is that everyone has accepted it as a way to lube the wheels of trade, so we don't need a barter system. Cash isn't backed up by anything.

Bitcoin still has some major flaws that require reckoning. It's mined extensively in China, transaction times are slow to process, and right now there's a huge fight looming between powerful cryptocurrency interests that might fork Bitcoin into two coins.

I personally think Ethereum is a more interesting technology. Not only is it a currency, but a blockchain platform that enables you to create and run distributed applications that don't 'go down' because of the distributed nature of it. It's still speculative, but I think it has a shot at long term adoption, and it's got backing from Microsoft, Intel, and JP Morgan, among others. IBM is releasing Hyperledger. Nope, sorry blockchain ain't going away.


Cash in America is backed by the faith of the US government. Laugh all day but, that is a big farking deal.
 
2017-03-20 05:19:53 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: Aezetyr: Currency doesn't work unless its regulated by a responsible third party

The last time I checked, bitcoins were working just fine.  They work so well that even Wall Street is trying to get in on the game.  Now THAT is how you fark things up.


Oh, you must have not been paying attention. Bitcoin had a huge problem,  might branch its code and compete with itself. Also two brothers trying to start an ETF is hardly Wall Street going all in.

Now Buttcoins, they are a good investment.
 
2017-03-20 05:54:56 PM  

American-Irish eyes: Cash in America is backed by the faith of the US government. Laugh all day but, that is a big farking deal.


Heck, Disney Dollars are backed by the full faith and credit of The Walt Disney Company.  Even fake money is more real than bitcoin.
 
2017-03-20 05:56:32 PM  
I'm pretty sure most people have moved on to Dogecoins by now. Bitcoins are passe.
howtodoge.com
 
2017-03-20 06:02:50 PM  

Olympic Trolling Judge: American-Irish eyes: Cash in America is backed by the faith of the US government. Laugh all day but, that is a big farking deal.

Heck, Disney Dollars are backed by the full faith and credit of The Walt Disney Company.  Even fake money is more real than bitcoin.


pressthebuttons.typepad.com
 
2017-03-20 06:12:41 PM  

bdub77: The better analogy is not bitcoin to fiat but bitcoin to gold, a more or less finite resource that has very little real world 'use' but is held as inflation protection


Hey look, it's another person who knows noting about chemistry or electronics telling us that gold is just a shiny thing.
 
2017-03-20 06:13:43 PM  

Fear the Clam: Gold itself ain't good for nothing except making jewelry with and gold teeth.


Ooo! Here's another one!
 
2017-03-20 06:15:14 PM  

albuquerquehalsey: bdub77: The better analogy is not bitcoin to fiat but bitcoin to gold, a more or less finite resource that has very little real world 'use' but is held as inflation protection

Hey look, it's another person who knows noting about chemistry or electronics telling us that gold is just a shiny thing.


It's too valuable as a shiny thing to use it in a lot of interesting and actually productive engineering uses (like pipes, cookware, etc).
 
2017-03-20 06:19:52 PM  

Trocadero: albuquerquehalsey: bdub77: The better analogy is not bitcoin to fiat but bitcoin to gold, a more or less finite resource that has very little real world 'use' but is held as inflation protection

Hey look, it's another person who knows noting about chemistry or electronics telling us that gold is just a shiny thing.

It's too valuable as a shiny thing to use it in a lot of interesting and actually productive engineering uses (like pipes, cookware, etc).


You know what has the highest thermal conductivity of all solid materials, five times that of pure copper?

Solid diamond. I want a skillet made out of that.
 
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