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(Deadspin)   Jeff Van Gundy: Resting the Cavaliers' big 3 in a nationally televised game should be "a prosecutable offense". NBA league office: We agree   ( deadspin.com) divider line
    More: Followup, predictably easy victory, New York Knicks, LeBron James, LeBron James play, manager David Griffin, nationally televised game, Jeff Van Gundy, National Basketball Association  
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1582 clicks; posted to Sports » on 20 Mar 2017 at 12:50 PM (43 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2017-03-20 11:34:13 AM  
I get that it's a marathon, not a sprint. But can't you rest your players against the Nets on a Tuesday night or a similarly bad team? Why does it always seem to be in a good game against a good team?

It's like they're building in an excuse to not have to play good teams with all their players so when they lose they can say, "Well yeah, we sat our best players."
 
2017-03-20 12:12:52 PM  
The news keeps saying it was "rest", but my own sources tell me that LeBron was "scared" to play.  The thing is, though, why would you be scared to play a basketball match?  It's a children's game.

Really makes you wonder how mentally tough this guy really is, really...
 
2017-03-20 12:57:02 PM  
Oh, this thread will be fun.
 
2017-03-20 12:59:19 PM  

jaylectricity: I get that it's a marathon, not a sprint. But can't you rest your players against the Nets on a Tuesday night or a similarly bad team? Why does it always seem to be in a good game against a good team?

It's like they're building in an excuse to not have to play good teams with all their players so when they lose they can say, "Well yeah, we sat our best players."


It was the 2nd night of back to back games.

And what better time to send a message? Not that 'sending a message' was the reason. At least not the main one.
 
2017-03-20 12:59:45 PM  

Mike_LowELL: Really makes you wonder how mentally tough this guy really is, really...

You leave LeBron alone!  He had to have known that taking the night off would get him trash-talked by you on the Internet, and it takes balls to face a trollerin' by Mike_LowELL and get back up again.  Why, it's as if he didn't take the night off at all!
 
2017-03-20 01:05:19 PM  
Since shortening the season would mean less money for everyone and that will never happen, eliminate back-to-backs after the All-star break. Front load the schedule.
Also, don't schedule high profile Saturday night games where teams are on the 2nd night of back to backs.

This is the NBA's fault, not the Cavs.
 
2017-03-20 01:05:27 PM  
I guess false advertising is illegal.
 
2017-03-20 01:06:27 PM  
Popovich, Kerr, and Lue believe in resting starters.

Thibodeau doesn't.

Pops, Kerr, and Lue have all won titles.
Thibodeau has Derrick Rose's original knee cartilage.

They do it because it works. When the NBA starts giving out a title for winning the regular season, coaches will stop resting starters.
 
2017-03-20 01:06:27 PM  
Apparently the NBA does not have as much product as they sell.
 
2017-03-20 01:11:46 PM  
If the NBA doesn't want teams to do this, then they need to make a rule prohibiting it. As long as it's within the rules written by the league, then I don't see what the NBA has to complain about. I get why it pisses the fans off, but the Cavs were playing within the rules, and the fans need to direct their anger at the league that wrote the rules and the schedule.
 
2017-03-20 01:14:30 PM  

This text is now purple: Popovich, Kerr, and Lue believe in resting starters.

Thibodeau doesn't.

Pops, Kerr, and Lue have all won titles.
Thibodeau has Derrick Rose's original knee cartilage.

They do it because it works. When the NBA starts giving out a title for winning the regular season, coaches will stop resting starters.


Putting Rose's knee on Thibodeau is weak, at best.  I see it this way:  You would've had to physically place Jordan and Pippen in restraints to get them out of a playoff game, no matter what the score at the end.  And you would've had to purposely barricade them in their hotel room to keep them from playing a regular season game, and even then they would've done everything they could to get to the gym.  If they weren't injured, the played.  And I mean injured.  Not sore.  Not hurt.  Injured.  Sitting your stars because they need to "rest" is stupid.  If your players really need that much rest in-season, that's fine.  Negotiate at the next CBA that back-to backs are eliminated.  No more 6 game in 9 night road trips, etc., etc.  Man, even a cursory appearance by these guys would've been enough to suffice.  Play half the game, grab some bench for the rest.  But to just straight sit them is a middle finger to everyone.

And before you point at baseball and say they do the same thing, talk to me when the NBA plays 162 games in 185 days, along with doubleheaders to cover rainouts.
 
2017-03-20 01:19:09 PM  
Stop back to back away games, period. Either add two weeks (random number I chose) to the regular season, or keep the same week schedule time frame, but have the season be 75 games (another random number I chose).

You want to provide the paying fans a good product, and you are not going to get that when a team is playing an evening game as a visiting team, then force the team to jump on a plane soon after the game ends, to have said plane lands at 2 am at the game's city location, having the players check in to the hotel and finally going to sleep at around 4 am or so... to then play later on that day.
 
2017-03-20 01:20:22 PM  

This text is now purple: Popovich, Kerr, and Lue believe in resting starters.

Thibodeau doesn't.

Pops, Kerr, and Lue have all won titles.
Thibodeau has Derrick Rose's original knee cartilage.

They do it because it works. When the NBA starts giving out a title for winning the regular season, coaches will stop resting starters.


The NHL gives out a title for winning the regular season and how many teams even take the time to look at it sideways? Back in the 90s and early 00s, people used to want to AVOID winning it because of how few President's Trophy winners won the Stanley Cup.
 
2017-03-20 01:26:55 PM  
Let them rest and get over it.

Sucks for the fans who bought tickets to those games, but it's the regular season. Sorry your team is so good that only 79 of their games are amazing. Fans of rebuilding* teams wish they had these problems.

*I know there's no such in the NBA when all you have to do is buy a few max contracts to compete
 
2017-03-20 01:27:47 PM  
Of course the NBA is against it, can't have people figuring out the regular season is (a) too long and (b) ultimately meaningless. Hell, this applies to all of the Big Four.
 
2017-03-20 01:28:07 PM  

Cubs300: This text is now purple: Popovich, Kerr, and Lue believe in resting starters.

Thibodeau doesn't.

Pops, Kerr, and Lue have all won titles.
Thibodeau has Derrick Rose's original knee cartilage.

They do it because it works. When the NBA starts giving out a title for winning the regular season, coaches will stop resting starters.

Putting Rose's knee on Thibodeau is weak, at best.  I see it this way:  You would've had to physically place Jordan and Pippen in restraints to get them out of a playoff game, no matter what the score at the end.  And you would've had to purposely barricade them in their hotel room to keep them from playing a regular season game, and even then they would've done everything they could to get to the gym.  If they weren't injured, the played.  And I mean injured.  Not sore.  Not hurt.  Injured.  Sitting your stars because they need to "rest" is stupid.  If your players really need that much rest in-season, that's fine.  Negotiate at the next CBA that back-to backs are eliminated.  No more 6 game in 9 night road trips, etc., etc.  Man, even a cursory appearance by these guys would've been enough to suffice.  Play half the game, grab some bench for the rest.  But to just straight sit them is a middle finger to everyone.

And before you point at baseball and say they do the same thing, talk to me when the NBA plays 162 games in 185 days, along with doubleheaders to cover rainouts.


Oh, c'mon. Basketball is a much more physical game than baseball.

Why don't pitchers pitch every game?
 
2017-03-20 01:29:33 PM  

hugram: Stop back to back away games, period. Either add two weeks (random number I chose) to the regular season, or keep the same week schedule time frame, but have the season be 75 games (another random number I chose).


I'm a fan of reducing the number of games for all the professional teams. I'd love to see the NFL cut two preseason games, MLB cut like 20 or 30 from their schedule, and the NBA and NHL could stand to lose 10-15.
 
2017-03-20 01:33:08 PM  
I love that whenever fans start to complain they get told to shut up by the "enlightened" fans. Sure, the Cavs chance for a title go up if they rest guys. But the guy spending $300 to take his family to one or two games a year shouldbe upset if he's given an inferior product at the same cost. Sports are, after all, entertainment.
 
2017-03-20 01:33:13 PM  
The NBA can be as unhappy as they want, but I think its smart enough to realize it can't create a rule that in essence dictates coaching decisions.

I know a lot of people don't like JVG cause he goes overboard a lot, but I think he's great.  He's never afraid of speaking out about how the business needs to respect and do right by its fans.
 
2017-03-20 01:34:25 PM  
Let the teams rest players all they want. But only at home games.
 
2017-03-20 01:34:48 PM  

ElwoodCuse: Hell, this applies to all of the Big Four.


Nope.

I believe MLB has the biggest playoff parity of the big four.

NFL only has 16 games, so I don't think that's "too long".

And bottom seeds in the NHL regularly upset top ranked seeds. Fighting for a playoff spot is everything.
 
2017-03-20 01:36:10 PM  

Sin_City_Superhero: If the NBA doesn't want teams to do this, then they need to make a rule prohibiting it. As long as it's within the rules written by the league, then I don't see what the NBA has to complain about. I get why it pisses the fans off, but the Cavs were playing within the rules, and the fans need to direct their anger at the league that wrote the rules and the schedule.


Wouldnt a rule like that have to be collectively bargained with the players union?  I dont see them agreeing to a rule that forces them to play.

/dnrtfa
 
2017-03-20 01:36:53 PM  

Cubs300: Putting Rose's knee on Thibodeau is weak, at best.  I see it this way:  You would've had to physically place Jordan and Pippen in restraints to get them out of a playoff game, no matter what the score at the end.  And you would've had to purposely barricade them in their hotel room to keep them from playing a regular season game, and even then they would've done everything they could to get to the gym.


This is the same Jordan who retired for two seasons at age 30, right? And who missed his age 22 season?
This is the same Pippen who played one complete season after age 31?

By the end of this regular season, James will have more mileage (in terms of minutes played in his career) than Jordan or Pippen. His games per season is about the same as Pippen's, but at Jordan's average workload. Unlike Jordan, he hasn't taken three seasons off.
 
2017-03-20 01:37:02 PM  

Imperialism: But the guy spending $300 to take his family to one or two games a year shouldbe upset if he's given an inferior product at the same cost. Sports are, after all, entertainment.


I pay the same amount to see a baseball game whether the ace is pitching or the 5th guy in the rotation.

Don't like it? Sell your tickets and go to another game. Or cheer for the team, not just one player.
 
2017-03-20 01:39:21 PM  

meanmutton: hugram: Stop back to back away games, period. Either add two weeks (random number I chose) to the regular season, or keep the same week schedule time frame, but have the season be 75 games (another random number I chose).

I'm a fan of reducing the number of games for all the professional teams. I'd love to see the NFL cut two preseason games, MLB cut like 20 or 30 from their schedule, and the NBA and NHL could stand to lose 10-15.


It will never happen. There's too much money involved in one game to cut them back. The loss of revenue would have to be made up somewhere.

I'd like to see the playoffs be extended (especially in baseball), but again, this doesn't help the teams that lose revenue by missing out on the playoffs. Owners will never agree.
 
2017-03-20 01:46:05 PM  
You want to win a title, let the coach use (or not use) the players as he chooses. It sucks for the fans that night, but not nearly as much as playing LeBron and having him blow an ACL would. Root for the name on the front of the jersey, not the back.

/ I do think that this happening on consecutive Saturdays was a big f*ck you to the league office
// hope it continues
 
2017-03-20 01:49:02 PM  

Imperialism: I love that whenever fans start to complain they get told to shut up by the "enlightened" fans. Sure, the Cavs chance for a title go up if they rest guys. But the guy spending $300 to take his family to one or two games a year shouldbe upset if he's given an inferior product at the same cost. Sports are, after all, entertainment.


Because the owner knows that if he shuts his yap and lets the coach manage his players, he'll make more money from extra home playoff games, revenue from playoff merch, and his star players will stay healthy and make appearances than they would if they get hurt playing a back to back.  Because sports, after all, are a business.
 
2017-03-20 01:50:41 PM  

This text is now purple: Cubs300: Putting Rose's knee on Thibodeau is weak, at best.  I see it this way:  You would've had to physically place Jordan and Pippen in restraints to get them out of a playoff game, no matter what the score at the end.  And you would've had to purposely barricade them in their hotel room to keep them from playing a regular season game, and even then they would've done everything they could to get to the gym.

This is the same Jordan who retired for two seasons at age 30, right? And who missed his age 22 season?
This is the same Pippen who played one complete season after age 31?

By the end of this regular season, James will have more mileage (in terms of minutes played in his career) than Jordan or Pippen. His games per season is about the same as Pippen's, but at Jordan's average workload. Unlike Jordan, he hasn't taken three seasons off.


Shh... you're ruining his nostalgia colored flashbacks.

They can't and will never be able to stop this.  If the NBA makes a rule preventing the coach from doing "healthy scratches" (I don't know the basketball terminology for it, so I'll use hockey's), then all the coach will have to do is let the player go out for warm-ups, then say "He pulled a muscle in warm-ups", or "he has flu-like symptoms", or "he got food poisoning" or "he twisted something in his neck/back/leg/shoulder/..." or "he stubbed a finger on his shooting hand" or "He pinched a nerve in his <insert body part here>"....  There are a myriad of minor injuries, especially late in the season that a coach/GM could submit that he "doesn't want to become a bigger deal, so the player is resting to let it heal" which are more than likely true anyways.

The coach and GM have no responsibility to the opposing teams' fans.  Is it good for the league?  Probably not, but that's not their concern.  Their concern is first and foremost to their team.  That's what keeps them employed.
 
2017-03-20 01:58:10 PM  
Screw the fans. The peons cant even dunk no matter how much rest they get. They probably take several extra days off a month from their jobs too.
 
2017-03-20 01:58:17 PM  

Ow! That was my feelings!: Why don't pitchers pitch every game?


You can't seriously be asking that.
 
2017-03-20 02:05:28 PM  

Joey Jo Jo Jr Shabadu: Ow! That was my feelings!: Why don't pitchers pitch every game?

You can't seriously be asking that.


It was obviously a rhetorical question.
 
2017-03-20 02:07:24 PM  
Regular Season - 2 Games vs conference / 1 out of conference - 43 games.

Everybody makes the playoffs
1 Seeds get a bye

Each conference has a double-elimination bracket, best of 3 to start, then expands to 7.

Losers bracket re-enters at the Conf quarter finals and then goes single elimination from there.

Fewer overall games, but more playoff games
Regular Season a bit more useful
Bad teams penalized by playing fewer games

/bored
 
2017-03-20 02:11:24 PM  

homarjr: ElwoodCuse: Hell, this applies to all of the Big Four.

Nope.

I believe MLB has the biggest playoff parity of the big four.

NFL only has 16 games, so I don't think that's "too long".

And bottom seeds in the NHL regularly upset top ranked seeds. Fighting for a playoff spot is everything.


Playoff parity PROVES the regular season is meaningless.

The NFL season is absolutely too long, no human being can take that sort of beating for that long.

And yes, fighting for a playoff spot is in hockey is everything because all you need to do is get in to stand a chance and literally more than half the league does. Everything you have said undermines your position.
 
2017-03-20 02:25:56 PM  

Mike_LowELL: The news keeps saying it was "rest", but my own sources tell me that LeBron was "scared" to play.  The thing is, though, why would you be scared to play a basketball match?  It's a children's game.

Really makes you wonder how mentally tough this guy really is, really...


Your sources?  In Nebraska?  Sure... i've guess when i think Nebraska, i think "Bastion of all thing NBA-related".
 
2017-03-20 02:29:02 PM  

Cubs300: You would've had to physically place Jordan and Pippen in restraints to get them out of a playoff game, no matter what the score at the end.  And you would've had to purposely barricade them in their hotel room to keep them from playing a regular season game, and even then they would've done everything they could to get to the gym.


Must've been nice for them to have that luxury.  LeBron's already played more minutes in his career than either of them.
 
2017-03-20 02:29:08 PM  
I wouldn't mind this nearly as much if the team's didn't have dynamic pricing for games.  They charge more when it's a "premium" matchup.  When the stars that make it "premium" aren't playing, people buying tickets should feel ripped off.
 
2017-03-20 02:46:37 PM  

abmoraz: If the NBA makes a rule preventing the coach from doing "healthy scratches" (I don't know the basketball terminology for it, so I'll use hockey's), then all the coach will have to do is let the player go out for warm-ups, then say "He pulled a muscle in warm-ups", or "he has flu-like symptoms", or "he got food poisoning" or "he twisted something in his neck/back/leg/shoulder/..." or "he stubbed a finger on his shooting hand" or "He pinched a nerve in his <insert body part here>"....  There are a myriad of minor injuries, especially late in the season that a coach/GM could submit that he "doesn't want to become a bigger deal, so the player is resting to let it heal" which are more than likely true anyways.


Or he could just have them suit up and sit them, and say it was for any damn reason. Performance-based, disciplinary, etc.
 
2017-03-20 02:47:41 PM  
Why is the NBA the only sport where everyone thinks it's a federal crime to give star players a night off?  You never hear this crap in the NFL or MLB (where they do this regularly; it's a rare breed that can play 162 games a year, as Cal Ripken has shown us.)
 
2017-03-20 02:48:30 PM  

T.rex: Mike_LowELL: The news keeps saying it was "rest", but my own sources tell me that LeBron was "scared" to play.  The thing is, though, why would you be scared to play a basketball match?  It's a children's game.

Really makes you wonder how mentally tough this guy really is, really...

Your sources?  In Nebraska?  Sure... i've guess when i think Nebraska, i think "Bastion of all thing NBA-related".


dailyknicks.comView Full Size
 
2017-03-20 02:51:20 PM  

homarjr: I pay the same amount to see a baseball game whether the ace is pitching or the 5th guy in the rotation.


No, but you pay a different price if the Yankees or Red Sox are in town as opposed to the Twins.
 
2017-03-20 03:02:07 PM  

Cubs300: You would've had to physically place Jordan and Pippen in restraints to get them out of a playoff game, no matter what the score at the end.  And you would've had to purposely barricade them in their hotel room to keep them from playing a regular season game, and even then they would've done everything they could to get to the gym.  If they weren't injured, the played.  And I mean injured.  Not sore.  Not hurt.  Injured.


Yeah, and they walked uphill both ways in a blinding snowstorm.
 
2017-03-20 03:07:23 PM  

UNC_Samurai: homarjr: I pay the same amount to see a baseball game whether the ace is pitching or the 5th guy in the rotation.

No, but you pay a different price if the Yankees or Red Sox are in town as opposed to the Twins.


Yes, to an extent. Baseball lists certain games as 'premium', like weekends or against higher profile teams. But regardless of who is playing in that game, the price remains the same. Doesn't matter that Jeter is gone, the Yankees are still the Yankees. The premium is on the team, not the players on that team.

The secondary market (Stubhub) will find the true market value. If 90% of the starters are on the bench, the price will drop dramatically.
 
2017-03-20 03:07:46 PM  

UNC_Samurai: homarjr: I pay the same amount to see a baseball game whether the ace is pitching or the 5th guy in the rotation.

No, but you pay a different price if the Yankees or Red Sox are in town as opposed to the Twins.


Some teams might do that, but they would strictly be AL teams - NL teams (other than the Mets) don't see the Yankees often enough to justify a price increase.

As a Cardinals fan, there's really no difference in baseline cost for tickets amongst NL teams - there might be a very slight increase for Cubs tickets as opposed to Padres tickets, but there's "Cubs" packs where you can buy tickets for a 3 or 4 game series with the Cubs that saves you a bit of $$$ as opposed to buying them separately.  Then again, we're guaranteed to see the Cubs 9 or 10 times a year at Busch, while the Padres would only get them at most 3 or 4 games in SD.
 
2017-03-20 03:13:09 PM  

IlGreven: it's a rare breed that can play 162 games a year, as Cal Ripken has shown us.)


Cal Ripken was selfish and stupid to keep doing this, btw

Only 3 dudes played 162 games last season and it's not because awwww precious babies
 
2017-03-20 03:57:28 PM  

ElwoodCuse: Only 3 dudes played 162 games last season and it's not because awwww precious babies


It's the same reason NBA players sit out and nobody pitches 130 pitches, etc.

It's not conditioning, it's not spoiled players.

The athletes are all playing at insane levels these days, that if Lebron is at 80% in the playoffs because he played 82 games in the regular season, he can't win.

The batters are so good that if a pitcher's fastball starts dropping from 95 to 92, they start getting smacked around.

It's more valuable to have a player play 90% of the games at near full ability than play 99% at 70% of the ability.
 
2017-03-20 04:12:04 PM  

IlGreven: Why is the NBA the only sport where everyone thinks it's a federal crime to give star players a night off?  You never hear this crap in the NFL or MLB (where they do this regularly; it's a rare breed that can play 162 games a year, as Cal Ripken has shown us.)


More than any of the other leagues the NBA is star-driven. In baseball and football there is no one player that can win the game, and hockey has dominant players but they still require adequate teammates. In the NBA one guy can literally take over a game and win it. That's what people go to see.
 
2017-03-20 04:36:18 PM  

IlGreven: Why is the NBA the only sport where everyone thinks it's a federal crime to give star players a night off?  You never hear this crap in the NFL or MLB (where they do this regularly; it's a rare breed that can play 162 games a year, as Cal Ripken has shown us.)


As mentioned, the NBA is more of a star driven league than any other, amplified by having only 5 guys as a starting lineup.  So when 3 of them sit out, it's a tad noticeable.

And this doesn't happen regularly in the NFL, where almost every single game means something.  It's also somewhat avoidable seeing as resting players in the NFL would likely happen at the very end of the season, maybe the last game or two.

Baseball's a different story as well.  For one, you're probably only spending a quarter of what you would at an NBA game.  So if you miss out on a star player, it's felt a lot less in the wallet.
 
2017-03-20 04:44:45 PM  

This text is now purple: Popovich, Kerr, and Lue believe in resting starters.

Thibodeau doesn't.

Pops, Kerr, and Lue have all won titles.
Thibodeau has Derrick Rose's original knee cartilage.

They do it because it works. When the NBA starts giving out a title for winning the regular season, coaches will stop resting starters.


Rose might have gotten hurt anyway, but Noah's career being a shell of what it was is almost definitely on Thibs' penchant for overuse
 
2017-03-20 04:56:22 PM  

JAGChem82: Some teams might do that, but they would strictly be AL teams - NL teams (other than the Mets) don't see the Yankees often enough to justify a price increase.

As a Cardinals fan, there's really no difference in baseline cost for tickets amongst NL teams - there might be a very slight increase for Cubs tickets as opposed to Padres tickets, but there's "Cubs" packs where you can buy tickets for a 3 or 4 game series with the Cubs that saves you a bit of $$$ as opposed to buying them separately.  Then again, we're guaranteed to see the Cubs 9 or 10 times a year at Busch, while the Padres would only get them at most 3 or 4 games in SD.


The fact that you DON'T see the Yankees all the time is why NL teams jack the prices. The Cubs made the Saturday Yankees game one of three in their top price level (the others are opening day, and a Saturday game against the Cardinals). The other two against the Yankees are in the next highest price level. They charge that 2nd-highest level for all Cardinals games except the one that is in the highest level. The only other games in that 2nd highest level are other Saturday games June through August, July 4, and the 2 against the White Sox.

Almost every team does this now, charging more for the big draw opponents, and charging more on weekends than on weeknights.
 
2017-03-20 04:57:32 PM  

GQueue: This text is now purple: Popovich, Kerr, and Lue believe in resting starters.

Thibodeau doesn't.

Pops, Kerr, and Lue have all won titles.
Thibodeau has Derrick Rose's original knee cartilage.

They do it because it works. When the NBA starts giving out a title for winning the regular season, coaches will stop resting starters.

Rose might have gotten hurt anyway, but Noah's career being a shell of what it was is almost definitely on Thibs' penchant for overuse


Agrees...

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