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(The Atlantic)   Applications to U.S. colleges by foreign students are down because of the fear of deportation. American students look forward to benefiting from the grading curve being lowered   ( theatlantic.com) divider line
    More: Sad, international students, Student, International student, international applicants, travel ban, undergraduate applications, graduate applications, current applicants/admitted students  
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2896 clicks; posted to Main » on 19 Mar 2017 at 10:45 AM (21 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



153 Comments     (+0 »)
 
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2017-03-19 08:56:39 AM  
Wooo! Winner by default!
 
2017-03-19 09:14:23 AM  

Cyrus the Mediocre: Wooo! Winner by default!


The two greatest words in the English language!  DE FAULT!  DE FAULT!
 
2017-03-19 09:19:53 AM  
I can't say I blame them, fark me I'm avoiding conferences if they're in the states and I'm a white guy.  Fix your house guys, its like living next to that neighbor who keeps all their garbage piling up in the backyard at this point.
 
2017-03-19 09:25:25 AM  
Hey, no one is surprised when people don't apply to go to Somalia University.

Third World countries aren't a big destination for people.
 
2017-03-19 09:42:18 AM  
Transfer to Brown.
 
2017-03-19 10:22:06 AM  
To paraphrase: "When other countries send people to the US, they're not sending their best"... any more.
 
2017-03-19 10:47:53 AM  

BumpInTheNight: I can't say I blame them, fark me I'm avoiding conferences if they're in the states and I'm a white guy.  Fix your house guys, its like living next to that neighbor who keeps all their garbage piling up in the backyard at this point.


Not much has changed despite what you see on Fark or MSM.  It's just what the media is focusing on this year.
 
2017-03-19 10:47:57 AM  
I would think this will push domestic student tuition rates higher.

But Trump supporters deride all those college elites anyway.
 
2017-03-19 10:53:10 AM  
I think this is something that's been boiling for a while. The difficulty of transferring a student visa into a work visa has gotten much higher since the H1 visa quotas have been throttled in the past few years.

So instead of getting smart, young people who want to stay here, we get hordes of people applying for the visa lottery and hoping to win big. College and work seem like a pretty good filter for weeding out the ones who shouldn't be granted long term stay privileges.
 
2017-03-19 10:53:17 AM  

BumpInTheNight: I can't say I blame them, fark me I'm avoiding conferences if they're in the states and I'm a white guy.  Fix your house guys, its like living next to that neighbor who keeps all their garbage piling up in the backyard at this point.


A majority of us (by some 3 million) voted the other way.  What more do you want us to do?

I'm donating money to liberal groups. I vote every election - but I live in a deep blue district in a deep blue state, so my votes don't really make any difference anyway.

As usual, it will fall to Democrats to clean up the mess created by a Republican administration gaining power. Only it looks like the mess will be really severe this time.
 
2017-03-19 10:58:59 AM  
Well a lot of them can come to Canada and get the education at half the tuition.

I have a colleague here who had an undergraduate student submit an abstract to a conference many months ago. The abstract got accepted as a presentation (talk) rather than as a poster. For an undergrad to be given a talk instead of a poster is very prestigious, and a water mark.moment of their early career.

She is Iranian. Her supervisor will have to give the talk in her stead.

Which is truly, truly shameful.
 
2017-03-19 11:04:39 AM  
and the tuition going up
 
2017-03-19 11:04:47 AM  
BumpInTheNight:

Fix your house guys, its like living next to that neighbor who keeps all their garbage piling up in the backyard Whitehouse at this point.

FTFY
 
2017-03-19 11:05:19 AM  
Gotta love that Lib thinking of we should import smarter kids instead of fixing our education system.
 
2017-03-19 11:07:43 AM  

baufan2005: Gotta love that Lib thinking of we should import smarter kids instead of fixing our education system.


Funny how that "lib thinking" is driving the economy forward in places that can't educate their own young, like Texas.
 
2017-03-19 11:08:08 AM  
Nooooo, goddammit!

I got my undergrad degree in the late 80s so maybe it's different now, but back then bringing foreign students here was one of the best ways for the USA to project soft power.

A cohort of other nations' smartest kids would come to live in America for several years.  Here, they not only learned the subject matter of their academic major, they were introduced to American culture.  They saw Americans up close and personal, they discovered delicious greasy pizza and cheap-ass beer and shiatty TV and Ultimate Frisbee and drunk billiards in the student union and (if they were lucky) slutty college girls.  Then they either stayed and contributed to America, or they went back home.  If they repatriated, as educated elites they were more likely to attain positions of power and influence, and retained fond memories of playing euchre while drunk and/or stoned with their American buds which inclined them to regard America favorably.

And for the universities, it was all good because those foreign students paid full fare.

Why would we want to torpedo that?  AGGGHHH!
 
2017-03-19 11:08:23 AM  
I dont get how this is "sad", in Ca there is a big todo about how the university is is squeezing out residents to accomodate foreign applicants to cash in on their non-resident tuition.  This is t about them being the best and brightest students , it is about them being rich.

The solution to offset the lost tution would be simple as well, slash administration to back where it was before we had federal backing of student loans.
 
2017-03-19 11:08:40 AM  
 4 in 10...
While 39 percent of the universities surveyed saw a drop in international applicants, another 35 percent reported an increase, while 26 percent saw no change


So basically a regular fluctuation in enrollment.

They don't even mention the percentages.

What's that adage about articles where the headline is a question?
 
2017-03-19 11:08:42 AM  
Does this mean more domestic  'Muricans get to go to college?
 
2017-03-19 11:08:59 AM  
Did we see a drop post-911?  They REALLY cracked down hard on people overstaying student visas, which had been sort of permitted up to that point.
 
2017-03-19 11:09:44 AM  
Cleatus and Geech might finally have a spot open up for them at MIT's synthetic biology program.
 
2017-03-19 11:13:20 AM  

TheLogicAvenger: I dont get how this is "sad", in Ca there is a big todo about how the university is is squeezing out residents to accomodate foreign applicants to cash in on their non-resident tuition.  This is t about them being the best and brightest students , it is about them being rich.

The solution to offset the lost tution would be simple as well, slash administration to back where it was before we had federal backing of student loans.


Yeah guys college administration is just in it for the free money.
 
2017-03-19 11:13:33 AM  

Parthenogenetic: Nooooo, goddammit!

I got my undergrad degree in the late 80s so maybe it's different now, but back then bringing foreign students here was one of the best ways for the USA to project soft power.

A cohort of other nations' smartest kids would come to live in America for several years.  Here, they not only learned the subject matter of their academic major, they were introduced to American culture.  They saw Americans up close and personal, they discovered delicious greasy pizza and cheap-ass beer and shiatty TV and Ultimate Frisbee and drunk billiards in the student union and (if they were lucky) slutty college girls.  Then they either stayed and contributed to America, or they went back home.  If they repatriated, as educated elites they were more likely to attain positions of power and influence, and retained fond memories of playing euchre while drunk and/or stoned with their American buds which inclined them to regard America favorably.

And for the universities, it was all good because those foreign students paid full fare.

Why would we want to torpedo that?  AGGGHHH!


I think you make a great point but still think the ratios are too high to the point of crowding out locals for the big paycheck.
 
2017-03-19 11:14:00 AM  

chawco: She is Iranian. Her supervisor will have to give the talk in her stead.

Which is truly, truly shameful.


... Seriously, why?
 
2017-03-19 11:15:08 AM  

ajgeek: chawco: She is Iranian. Her supervisor will have to give the talk in her stead.

Which is truly, truly shameful.

... Seriously, why?


And I immediately regret not elaborating more on that, because that came off as severely racist. WHY is her supervisor giving the talk?! What does her national origin have to do with this?
 
2017-03-19 11:16:33 AM  

ajgeek: chawco: She is Iranian. Her supervisor will have to give the talk in her stead.

Which is truly, truly shameful.

... Seriously, why?


Moose out front should have told ya'
 
2017-03-19 11:17:17 AM  
I would imagine it's deportation and more. It obvious the trump admin will be not only doing zero for US education, but adding negatives as well. Add to that trump will be butchering a lot of the tech and sciences that many people may eventually work in. Why at this point in our history would any smart person come to the US for any education benefits or cutting edge research, development, tech, etc fields? These smart people will figure out there's many schools in Europe that rival schools in the US and will only get better as the US squanders what's left of its educational/intelligentsia environment. Add to that governments and a population more amenable to these things outside America and the question is why would someone with the brains to come here, come here?
 
2017-03-19 11:18:20 AM  

ajgeek: ajgeek: chawco: She is Iranian. Her supervisor will have to give the talk in her stead.

Which is truly, truly shameful.

... Seriously, why?

And I immediately regret not elaborating more on that, because that came off as severely racist. WHY is her supervisor giving the talk?! What does her national origin have to do with this?


She's from Iran.  Regardless of her actual status here, if she goes to Canada, she probably won't be allowed back.

Have you been under a rock for the past three months?
 
2017-03-19 11:20:05 AM  
Here is an article that shows some pretty good evidence that non-local admissions arent about best and brightes but are about most spendy and wealthy
http://m.sfgate.com/education/article/Audit-shows-UC-admission-standa​r​ds-relaxed-for-7215364.php
 
2017-03-19 11:20:15 AM  

Parthenogenetic: Nooooo, goddammit!

I got my undergrad degree in the late 80s so maybe it's different now, but back then bringing foreign students here was one of the best ways for the USA to project soft power.

A cohort of other nations' smartest kids would come to live in America for several years.  Here, they not only learned the subject matter of their academic major, they were introduced to American culture.  They saw Americans up close and personal, they discovered delicious greasy pizza and cheap-ass beer and shiatty TV and Ultimate Frisbee and drunk billiards in the student union and (if they were lucky) slutty college girls.  Then they either stayed and contributed to America, or they went back home.  If they repatriated, as educated elites they were more likely to attain positions of power and influence, and retained fond memories of playing euchre while drunk and/or stoned with their American buds which inclined them to regard America favorably.

And for the universities, it was all good because those foreign students paid full fare.

Why would we want to torpedo that?  AGGGHHH!


A few of them got offended by something. So the university hired a residence hall offense officer. That snow alled into less teachers, more admins, and less assimilation by foreign students.  And here we are.
 
2017-03-19 11:21:25 AM  

TheLogicAvenger: Parthenogenetic: Nooooo, goddammit!

I got my undergrad degree in the late 80s so maybe it's different now, but back then bringing foreign students here was one of the best ways for the USA to project soft power.

A cohort of other nations' smartest kids would come to live in America for several years.  Here, they not only learned the subject matter of their academic major, they were introduced to American culture.  They saw Americans up close and personal, they discovered delicious greasy pizza and cheap-ass beer and shiatty TV and Ultimate Frisbee and drunk billiards in the student union and (if they were lucky) slutty college girls.  Then they either stayed and contributed to America, or they went back home.  If they repatriated, as educated elites they were more likely to attain positions of power and influence, and retained fond memories of playing euchre while drunk and/or stoned with their American buds which inclined them to regard America favorably.

And for the universities, it was all good because those foreign students paid full fare.

Why would we want to torpedo that?  AGGGHHH!

I think you make a great point but still think the ratios are too high to the point of crowding out locals for the big paycheck.


Well, as I said, I'm drawing from my undergrad experience of almost 30 years ago (gulp).

I could see how the pool of foreign students may have changed.  Back then, those who came to American universities were more likely to be here on the basis of merit (other than the children of the wealthy and politically connected).  With expanding middle classes, I suppose more of them are here because their families have the means to send them here, rather than them having to win a competitive scholarship.
 
2017-03-19 11:22:33 AM  

HotWingConspiracy: TheLogicAvenger: I dont get how this is "sad", in Ca there is a big todo about how the university is is squeezing out residents to accomodate foreign applicants to cash in on their non-resident tuition.  This is t about them being the best and brightest students , it is about them being rich.

The solution to offset the lost tution would be simple as well, slash administration to back where it was before we had federal backing of student loans.

Yeah guys college administration is just in it for the free money.


Do we really need double the administration we had 25 years ago?
http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/4738584
 
2017-03-19 11:23:09 AM  

Lifeless: She's from Iran. Regardless of her actual status here, if she goes to Canada, she probably won't be allowed back.

Have you been under a rock for the past three months?


Just under the fundamental impression that virtually no one is a sleeper agent and/or Manchurian candidate and judging someone by where they came from is exactly what most of the U.S. is railing against right now emphasizes that point.

/Human rights exist past political borders.
 
2017-03-19 11:23:10 AM  
Isn't there some theory about headlines that end with question marks?  "
A Pause in International Students?"

Oh yeah, that the answer is always no.  From paragraph 20 or so:

"While 39 percent of the universities surveyed saw a drop in international applicants, another 35 percent reported an increase, while 26 percent saw no change."

So some up, some down some no change.
 
2017-03-19 11:23:42 AM  
The dream of the '90s is alive in Hyderabad.
 
2017-03-19 11:24:04 AM  

wejash: I would think this will push domestic student tuition rates higher.

But Trump supporters deride all those college elites anyway.


Actually, if anything, it should bring down tuition - law of supply and demand in play.
 
2017-03-19 11:24:28 AM  
 Lower demand means lower tuition!
 Boom
 
2017-03-19 11:25:55 AM  

TheLogicAvenger: HotWingConspiracy: TheLogicAvenger: I dont get how this is "sad", in Ca there is a big todo about how the university is is squeezing out residents to accomodate foreign applicants to cash in on their non-resident tuition.  This is t about them being the best and brightest students , it is about them being rich.

The solution to offset the lost tution would be simple as well, slash administration to back where it was before we had federal backing of student loans.

Yeah guys college administration is just in it for the free money.

Do we really need double the administration we had 25 years ago?
http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/4738584


If that is the question, metrics that measure such things would be helpful. Looking at total spending doesn't make sense.
 
2017-03-19 11:26:27 AM  

baufan2005: Gotta love that Lib thinking of we should import smarter kids instead of fixing our education system.


"Lib thinking" = Our educational system should be the best, with our colleges attracting the best and brightest from around the world and our K-12 system producing students with a broad general education that encourages critical thinking and analysis skills.

"Conservative thinking" = Make our educational system a political hockey puck that exists just to funnel educational funding into churches and corporations and turn out semi-literate "graduates" without critical thinking skills or an understanding of basic science.
 
2017-03-19 11:26:41 AM  
Without immigrants, that bell shaped curve is gonna look more like a cliff.
 
2017-03-19 11:28:05 AM  

ajgeek: Lifeless: She's from Iran. Regardless of her actual status here, if she goes to Canada, she probably won't be allowed back.

Have you been under a rock for the past three months?

Just under the fundamental impression that virtually no one is a sleeper agent and/or Manchurian candidate and judging someone by where they came from is exactly what most of the U.S. is railing against right now emphasizes that point.

/Human rights exist past political borders.


Being ignorant of the situation isn't some kind of moral enlightenment.  Sure, what you said is nice and it would be great if people could live that way, but it's all utterly irrelevant to someone who can't leave the country because the current administration wouldn't allow her back in.
 
2017-03-19 11:33:56 AM  

snocone: Without immigrants, that bell shaped curve is gonna look more like a cliff.


cuz Amurican are stoopid?

Also, that's not how a bell curve works.
 
2017-03-19 11:35:55 AM  

fark account name: snocone: Without immigrants, that bell shaped curve is gonna look more like a cliff.

cuz Amurican are stoopid?

Also, that's not how a bell curve works.


look! the point ran behind you.
 
2017-03-19 11:36:07 AM  

wejash: I would think this will push domestic student tuition rates higher.

But Trump supporters deride all those college elites anyway.


That would actually push them lower.  You didn't take Econ 101, I can tell.  Typical dem, has no clue when it comes to economics.
 
2017-03-19 11:37:15 AM  

big pig peaches: 4 in 10...
While 39 percent of the universities surveyed saw a drop in international applicants, another 35 percent reported an increase, while 26 percent saw no change

So basically a regular fluctuation in enrollment.

They don't even mention the percentages.

What's that adage about articles where the headline is a question?


I think they jumped the gun on this survey; too early into the new administration for university admissions to reflect changes in attitude.  Someone who has been planning, working toward matriculating in an American school for the fall 2017 semester is likely to have been working on it for a while, having already invested a fair amount of hope, time and even money toward the effort, making it less likely for them to just drop it and walk away.  To have planned for fall enrollment, one has probably achieved several necessary milestones by this time.

No, any real changes in foreign enrollment will show up the following semester, IMO.
 
2017-03-19 11:38:09 AM  

SansNeural: big pig peaches: 4 in 10...
While 39 percent of the universities surveyed saw a drop in international applicants, another 35 percent reported an increase, while 26 percent saw no change

So basically a regular fluctuation in enrollment.

They don't even mention the percentages.

What's that adage about articles where the headline is a question?

I think they jumped the gun on this survey; too early into the new administration for university admissions to reflect changes in attitude.  Someone who has been planning, working toward matriculating in an American school for the fall 2017 semester is likely to have been working on it for a while, having already invested a fair amount of hope, time and even money toward the effort, making it less likely for them to just drop it and walk away.  To have planned for fall enrollment, one has probably achieved several necessary milestones by this time.

No, any real changes in foreign enrollment will show up the following semester, IMO.


Thanks Obama.
 
2017-03-19 11:39:52 AM  

baufan2005: Gotta love that Lib thinking of we should import smarter kids instead of fixing our education system.


Lib thinking is that the US should do BOTH but at this point 1 is a lost cause, and can not be won.
 
2017-03-19 11:40:53 AM  

ajgeek: Lifeless: She's from Iran. Regardless of her actual status here, if she goes to Canada, she probably won't be allowed back.

Have you been under a rock for the past three months?

Just under the fundamental impression that virtually no one is a sleeper agent and/or Manchurian candidate and judging someone by where they came from is exactly what most of the U.S. is railing against right now emphasizes that point.

/Human rights exist past political borders.


Ah, so you've been living under a mental fog, not a rock!

The "most of the U.S." that is "railing against" are not in power right now.
 
2017-03-19 11:42:10 AM  
I'm TEFL-certified (Teaching English as a Foreign Language), and an approximate shiatload of international students have either been in my classroom or been my personal tutees. (I do not teach them words like "shiatload.") Even when they're really struggling with basic language stuff, I've usually been working with people so whip-smart I've felt intimidated. We really get the best of the best, particularly in advanced degree fields - grad school, med school.

Much of the time, particularly with the medical students, their visas are attached to requirements to work in certain areas or do a particular kind of work while or after obtaining their degree. As a country, we get, just, crazy benefits from international students.
 
2017-03-19 11:47:47 AM  
There goes one of America's top export industries.

But of course, Mulvaney's mythical coalminer (whose inability to understand what a particular government agency did and how it benefitted him personally was allegedly grounds for abolishing the agency) was never going to find work at a university.
 
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