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(Some GM)   GM to introduce new business model: Stop making unprofitable stuff. In future news, GM to shut down production very soon   ( gminsidenews.com) divider line
    More: Obvious, GM, GM President Dan, CEO Mary Barra, stock price, international markets, under-performing international markets, American car sales, North American cars  
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917 clicks; posted to Business » on 14 Mar 2017 at 11:50 AM (30 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



45 Comments     (+0 »)
 
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2017-03-14 10:53:24 AM  
When gas goes to $5 a gallon, we'll all jump on the "GM was stupid to focuse on crossovers" band wagon.
 
2017-03-14 12:08:53 PM  
My mother-in-law drives GM products.  She's the only one in the family.  Their quality is always terrible.  I don't see why she keeps buying them.  They seem to be a non-stop cavalcade of failure.  She's never had an engine problem, just everything else.
 
2017-03-14 12:09:11 PM  
This is my own perspective, but GM appears to be making very short-sited decisions right now.  They have spun off most of their international units and now appear to be targeting anything that isn't a gas-guzzling SUV or Pickup truck.

I get it to an extent.  Right now the compact and mid sized sedan market is flat.  The traditional market segment for these vehicles has cratered as more and more young professionals and College students opt for locations with better public transit options over car ownership.  But, I still believe that ignoring an entire market sector simply because it isn't currently a leader is an incredibly foolish move.

GM may boost short term profitability, but they are quickly painting themselves into a niche corner with their renewed focus on one segment of the market place.
 
kab
2017-03-14 12:11:20 PM  
That's an immediate opportunity for us to reward shareholders

And drive away customers by churning out forgettable econo boxes.

I realize the end of this particular era of auto is upon us... just move forward with production on this and I'll be happy:

media.chevrolet.com
 
2017-03-14 12:17:15 PM  
I have an appointment in a few hours to take my '16 Malibu in for a recall (premature piston damage or something like that), so I'm getting a kick...
 
2017-03-14 12:25:49 PM  

edmo: When gas goes to $5 a gallon, we'll all jump on the "GM was stupid to focuse on crossovers" band wagon.


OPEC has pretty much farked themselves.  If they reduce production, the shale guys in Montana and Canada just increase thiers.  If they increase production, that stuff goes idle when the price falls.  The high prices that reigned from 2011 to 2014 are never coming back.
 
2017-03-14 12:41:29 PM  

donutjim: I have an appointment in a few hours to take my '16 Malibu in for a recall (premature piston damage or something like that), so I'm getting a kick...



My boss has always been a German-car guy (Audis, mostly), but he travels a lot, and rents cars all the time. He has rented everything under the sun, but given the choice, he always opts for the Malibu. He loves them. Of course...he doesn't have to deal with any ownership issues like recalls or depreciation.
 
2017-03-14 12:43:33 PM  
That forum posted this image:

s3.caradvice.com.au

Pretty self explanatory.  Basically, expect cuts in the number of cars (but not SUVs, pickups, or crossovers) sold in the US...and that's about it, beyond them already exiting the European and Russian markets (and maybe leaving others (Holden in Australia?)).
 
2017-03-14 12:48:52 PM  
This right here shows me that its not exactly GM's fault but the fault of people who just have their heads up their ass.

"the smaller, built-in-Korea Spark has seen its sales spike, while he slightly larger and made-in-Michigan Sonic has seen its sales crater nearly 50 percent year-over-year."

The Sonic is a great compact car, maybe the best one ever built in America.  It feels solid, rides like a much bigger car, the turbo model gets wonderful mileage and its a pleasant drive*. (not valid on the 1.8l automatic)   The Spark is total garbage, not just in comparison either, its simply a bad car.     You can still get a mid level LT turbo manual for $17.5k which is exactly what they cost in 2012 and close to the same price as a Spark with the same equipment...so I don't know what the problem is other than bottom of the market buyers rarely exhibit much sense.
 
2017-03-14 01:00:49 PM  

Sin_City_Superhero: donutjim: I have an appointment in a few hours to take my '16 Malibu in for a recall (premature piston damage or something like that), so I'm getting a kick...


My boss has always been a German-car guy (Audis, mostly), but he travels a lot, and rents cars all the time. He has rented everything under the sun, but given the choice, he always opts for the Malibu. He loves them. Of course...he doesn't have to deal with any ownership issues like recalls or depreciation.


It's been a really good car so far. My biggest complaint would be the Auto-Stop system, which can be a real PITA when parking, stopping at a 4-way stop, or stuck in stop-n-go traffic.
Pulling into a parking spot and having the engine shut off before you have a chance to put the car in park, just to have the engine start again when you put it in park, only to have to turn the engine off again is just stupid.
 
2017-03-14 01:02:21 PM  
Vaginosilicosis:The Sonic is a great compact car, maybe the best one ever built in America.  It feels solid, rides like a much bigger car, the turbo model gets wonderful mileage and its a pleasant drive*. (not valid on the 1.8l automatic)   The Spark is total garbage, not just in comparison either, its simply a bad car.     You can still get a mid level LT turbo manual for $17.5k which is exactly what they cost in 2012 and close to the same price as a Spark with the same equipment...so I don't know what the problem is other than bottom of the market buyers rarely exhibit much sense.

Uneducated car buyers (and there's a lot of them) have been a boon for FCA and Nissan.
 
2017-03-14 01:05:18 PM  

Vaginosilicosis: This right here shows me that its not exactly GM's fault but the fault of people who just have their heads up their ass.


Yeah, Americans are completely irrational when it comes to car buying decisions. There are plenty of great sub-$20k cars but Americans just don't buy them because they're not cool. All of the auto companies' profits come from big cars with terrible MPG that people can only afford thanks to 60+ month loan terms (62 percent of auto loans are for terms over 60 months - that's absolutely crazy).

There's just no money in making cars for rational buyers because so few buyers are rational.
 
2017-03-14 01:05:57 PM  

donutjim: Sin_City_Superhero: donutjim: I have an appointment in a few hours to take my '16 Malibu in for a recall (premature piston damage or something like that), so I'm getting a kick...


My boss has always been a German-car guy (Audis, mostly), but he travels a lot, and rents cars all the time. He has rented everything under the sun, but given the choice, he always opts for the Malibu. He loves them. Of course...he doesn't have to deal with any ownership issues like recalls or depreciation.

It's been a really good car so far. My biggest complaint would be the Auto-Stop system, which can be a real PITA when parking, stopping at a 4-way stop, or stuck in stop-n-go traffic.
Pulling into a parking spot and having the engine shut off before you have a chance to put the car in park, just to have the engine start again when you put it in park, only to have to turn the engine off again is just stupid.


I have been avoiding anything with auto start/stop as I can't believe the additional wear and complexity could ever be less expensive than the additional gas burned.   Many models that have it will allow you to turn it off, not sure about the Malibu.

It worked fine on my wifes Prius because the electric motor was always ready but I think it would give me anxiety in stop and go traffic in a regular car.
 
2017-03-14 01:09:32 PM  

Explodo: My mother-in-law drives GM products.  She's the only one in the family.  Their quality is always terrible.  I don't see why she keeps buying them.  They seem to be a non-stop cavalcade of failure.  She's never had an engine problem, just everything else.


My father and grandfather were like this. Despite the fact that GM began building many of its cars outside of the United States decades ago, for the longest time they thought they were somehow helping American workers. Eventually my dad realized that he wasn't, and that his GM cars were pieces of crap.

All that being said, I hear that the Volt is actually a pretty good car. If I needed to replace my current car I'd probably buy a 2015 used Volt because where I live electricity is cheaper than gas, and I rarely drive more than 30 miles in a day.
 
2017-03-14 01:12:19 PM  

Explodo: My mother-in-law drives GM products.  She's the only one in the family.  Their quality is always terrible.  I don't see why she keeps buying them.  They seem to be a non-stop cavalcade of failure.  She's never had an engine problem, just everything else.


That's the trick. GM cars never actually fail. They just want to make you miserable for as long as possible by having the car fall slowly apart but never actually stop driving.
 
2017-03-14 01:12:38 PM  
They have to sell a bunch of losers to make their CAFE nut.  If Trump lowers the standards, however...
 
2017-03-14 01:22:36 PM  

Vaginosilicosis: The Sonic is a great compact car, maybe the best one ever built in America.  It feels solid, rides like a much bigger car, the turbo model gets wonderful mileage and its a pleasant drive*. (not valid on the 1.8l automatic)   The Spark is total garbage, not just in comparison either, its simply a bad car.


The problem is that both exist. There's not much reason for that. Ok, the Spark is a little smaller than the Sonic, but why the hell are both being sold at the same dealership? The US market isn't one where the size difference between them matters one little bit and they just cannibalize each others' sales. There's no reason to spend resources getting them to market in the US. Off one and the other will pick up the sales you just "lost."

GM has had a nasty time with this kind of cannibalization over the years. They'd try to sell both the Pontiac Sunfire and Chevy Cavalier. And the Saturns. Hell, Buick is still a thing (because China) as is GMC. Kill them both in the US and GM would likely not see sales change much- if you were looking hard at a GMC Sierra you're going to go buy a Silverado instead, not a F-150. The restructuring of not quite a decade ago improved this situation but didn't fix it.

Cars are hard enough to make a profit on without deliberately undermining yourself.
 
2017-03-14 01:35:11 PM  

thornhill: Vaginosilicosis: This right here shows me that its not exactly GM's fault but the fault of people who just have their heads up their ass.

Yeah, Americans are completely irrational when it comes to car buying decisions. There are plenty of great sub-$20k cars but Americans just don't buy them because they're not cool. All of the auto companies' profits come from big cars with terrible MPG that people can only afford thanks to 60+ month loan terms (62 percent of auto loans are for terms over 60 months - that's absolutely crazy).

There's just no money in making cars for rational buyers because so few buyers are rational.


There's tons of really good hatchbacks out there right now, and if you're willing to go a bit over $20k you can get some pretty high-end features on a lot of them.  There's really no reason people need to be spending $50k-$60k on high-trim level SUVs and pickups, but that's what the market demands right now.
 
2017-03-14 01:50:03 PM  

HMS_Blinkin: thornhill: Vaginosilicosis: This right here shows me that its not exactly GM's fault but the fault of people who just have their heads up their ass.

Yeah, Americans are completely irrational when it comes to car buying decisions. There are plenty of great sub-$20k cars but Americans just don't buy them because they're not cool. All of the auto companies' profits come from big cars with terrible MPG that people can only afford thanks to 60+ month loan terms (62 percent of auto loans are for terms over 60 months - that's absolutely crazy).

There's just no money in making cars for rational buyers because so few buyers are rational.

There's tons of really good hatchbacks out there right now, and if you're willing to go a bit over $20k you can get some pretty high-end features on a lot of them. There's really no reason people need to be spending $50k-$60k on high-trim level SUVs and pickups, but that's what the market demands right now.


Problem there is that you can find the sweet spot midsize models all day long for that money.  $20k will get you a Fusion SE or Accord LX ad special any weekend in any town or $23k if you are too lazy to chase the specials down.    Those cars are much better than the Civic/Focus/Cruz/Corolla level which sell for the same money, forget any comparison to the Sonic/Fiesta/Yaris group.

As I see it either you get a good subcompact in the $16-18k range or go $22-24k for a midsize.   You compromise way to much in the $18-21k range.
 
2017-03-14 02:08:10 PM  

v2micca: Right now the compact and mid sized sedan market is flat.  The traditional market segment for these vehicles has cratered as more and more young professionals and College students opt for locations with better public transit options over car ownership.


It also doesn't help that new vehicles, regardless of what type, cost a hell of a lot these days.  Which is probably why I see more trucks, suvs, and hybrids on the road than I did in the past.  If you're gonna spend a lot for a vehicle, regardless of what it is, might as well either get a hybrid or something that can hold a sizable amount of cargo....or we can pick something with horrible gas mileage and a lack of cargo room....

It also doesn't help that GM/Chevy is still tainted by the bailout or that their quality has been spiraling downwards for as long as I can remember.
 
2017-03-14 02:10:11 PM  

skeevy420: quality has been spiraling downwards for as long as I can remember.


Do you actually believe that?
 
2017-03-14 02:10:15 PM  

Vaginosilicosis: As I see it either you get a good subcompact in the $16-18k range or go $22-24k for a midsize.   You compromise way to much in the $18-21k range.


I got a Focus ST for about 21K with an extended warranty. It's a farking blast. I guess it counts as a compact car but it doesn't feel like it, and since it's a hatchback the cargo space is really good. It beats driving a Malibu.
 
2017-03-14 02:14:35 PM  

Lsherm: Vaginosilicosis: As I see it either you get a good subcompact in the $16-18k range or go $22-24k for a midsize.   You compromise way to much in the $18-21k range.

I got a Focus ST for about 21K with an extended warranty. It's a farking blast. I guess it counts as a compact car but it doesn't feel like it, and since it's a hatchback the cargo space is really good. It beats driving a Malibu.


Focus ST starts at $25k, Accord LX starts at $22.5.    I can tell you without question which is going to be a better choice for everything other than driving fun which this thread isn't about to begin with.
 
2017-03-14 02:29:19 PM  

Explodo: My mother-in-law drives GM products.  She's the only one in the family.  Their quality is always terrible.  I don't see why she keeps buying them.  They seem to be a non-stop cavalcade of failure.  She's never had an engine problem, just everything else.


Have I mentioned how my parents insist on buying Sears major appliances?

Old people.

/They were ahead of the curve in buying Hyundai cars just as they were getting good, though.
 
2017-03-14 02:45:47 PM  

Vaginosilicosis: skeevy420: quality has been spiraling downwards for as long as I can remember.

Do you actually believe that?


I do. Back in 2005 during the worst days of my life, I sold GM cars. The thing that was versed over and over and over and over was the improvements in quality. "These cars are now built to last longer than the earth" or "your great grand children will fight eachother over this car."

Turns out that they were a heaping pile of shiat that no one wanted. Now, it keeps coming out that there are more improvements in quality.

https://www.aol.com/article/2015/03/20/how-general-motors-boosted-qua​l​ity/21154524/

I vividly remember "selling" a car to a guy. He wanted very specific attributes on his car and it just so happened that the car he wanted was due to arrive at our lot in a week afternoon. We roll off the truck a brand new sedan that looked incredible. Guy knew we were going to get the car on that day and actually showed up to inspect it off the truck. After getting the car off the truck, we park it and I take off the stickers and plastic.

Guy is getting ready to sign the dotted line in the managers office while I get it ready to take it out for a spin. I take a license plate and put it on the back. Excitedly we both jump in the car and turn it over.

Dead. Lights come on in the interior but won't turn over. We try again.

Dead. I verify that there is gas in the tank.

Dead. We call over the maintenance manager to look. He is completely puzzled. We check the spark plugs.

Dead.

Long story short, after a week of looking the car over. Having GM personnel come to the dealership to look at it and then sending the car back to GM to evaluate. The guy bought a competing GM vehicle. The car had four miles on it and we never heard from GM what was wrong.

This and my own personal experiences with GM products have led me to never buy a GM vehicle again.

Fark GM. I hope you die and long to piss on your ashes.
 
2017-03-14 02:56:24 PM  

great_tigers: Vaginosilicosis: skeevy420: quality has been spiraling downwards for as long as I can remember.

Do you actually believe that?

I do. Back in 2005 during the worst days of my life, I sold GM cars. The thing that was versed over and over and over and over was the improvements in quality. "These cars are now built to last longer than the earth" or "your great grand children will fight eachother over this car."

Turns out that they were a heaping pile of shiat that no one wanted. Now, it keeps coming out that there are more improvements in quality.

https://www.aol.com/article/2015/03/20/how-general-motors-boosted-qual​ity/21154524/

I vividly remember "selling" a car to a guy. He wanted very specific attributes on his car and it just so happened that the car he wanted was due to arrive at our lot in a week afternoon. We roll off the truck a brand new sedan that looked incredible. Guy knew we were going to get the car on that day and actually showed up to inspect it off the truck. After getting the car off the truck, we park it and I take off the stickers and plastic.

Guy is getting ready to sign the dotted line in the managers office while I get it ready to take it out for a spin. I take a license plate and put it on the back. Excitedly we both jump in the car and turn it over.

Dead. Lights come on in the interior but won't turn over. We try again.

Dead. I verify that there is gas in the tank.

Dead. We call over the maintenance manager to look. He is completely puzzled. We check the spark plugs.

Dead.

Long story short, after a week of looking the car over. Having GM personnel come to the dealership to look at it and then sending the car back to GM to evaluate. The guy bought a competing GM vehicle. The car had four miles on it and we never heard from GM what was wrong.

This and my own personal experiences with GM products have led me to never buy a GM vehicle again.

Fark GM. I hope you die and long to piss on your ashes.


I guess you must have been born in the year 2000 if you really think todays cars are worse than the cars of....any year previous to that.   Only someone with no memory of the 70's and 80's (or trolling) could possibly make such a ridiculous statement.
 
2017-03-14 03:02:08 PM  
Not sure why GM would care.
They'll just get bailed out by the government if things get too bad.
 
2017-03-14 03:19:03 PM  

Vaginosilicosis: great_tigers: Vaginosilicosis: skeevy420: guess you must have been born in the year 2000 if you really think todays cars are worse than the cars of....any year previous to that.   Only someone with no memory of the 70's and 80's (or trolling) could possibly make such a ridiculous statement

.

/Not a troll
//born in 1985
//first car was a 1986 Delta 88
///had over 200,000 miles on it and still ran good. 
////every GM since then got considerably worse and worse and worse.
Dex-Cool. That is all.
 
2017-03-14 03:28:51 PM  

great_tigers: //first car was a 1986 Delta 88
///had over 200,000 miles on it and still ran good.
////every GM since then got considerably worse and worse and worse.


   1986 Delta 88 was the high point for GM...my eyes rolled so hard I can see my brain.

img.fark.net
 
2017-03-14 03:53:34 PM  

Vaginosilicosis: great_tigers: //first car was a 1986 Delta 88
///had over 200,000 miles on it and still ran good.
////every GM since then got considerably worse and worse and worse.

   1986 Delta 88 was the high point for GM...my eyes rolled so hard I can see my brain.

[img.fark.net image 625x626]


http://money.cnn.com/2014/06/28/news/companies/gm-smerconish/
http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2015/12/there-s-a-big-issue-with-g​m​-s-suvs-and-no-one-seems-to-have-a-solution.html
http://www.ibtimes.com/quality-crisis-gm-worst-year-recalls-2004-1588​1​25
https://www.wsj.com/articles/gm-issues-three-more-recalls-to-close-ou​t​-2014-1420126977

All after this:
http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2013/06/19/jd-power-initial-​q​uality-survey-gm-ford/2437115/

So then imagine all of the issues that will come up in another few years after winning another award:
https://www.fool.com/investing/2017/02/22/the-big-winners-in-quality-​t​oyota-and-general-moto.aspx

So I guess more of the same. We are improving quality more than ever. Let us just get these recalls out of the way. Year in year out. Rinse, wash, repeat.

I won't win your opinion and that is fine. Simple fact is that GM is garbage.
 
2017-03-14 04:20:17 PM  

great_tigers: I won't win your opinion and that is fine. Simple fact is that GM is garbage.


Its your opinion that is garbage if you honestly think that 80's GM > 2010's GM.    Seriously, its such a stupid position its not even worth the time to argue against if you are being real and not trolling.
 
2017-03-14 04:31:40 PM  

Vaginosilicosis: great_tigers: I won't win your opinion and that is fine. Simple fact is that GM is garbage.

Its your opinion that is garbage if you honestly think that 80's GM > 2010's GM.    Seriously, its such a stupid position its not even worth the time to argue against if you are being real and not trolling.


goodness! I just provided you with data that shows the quality improvements that GM has prided themselves on. Then the articles that illustrate the quality problems on the cars that they had just boasted about.

I get it, you have the chevy logo tattoo on your arm. Your kids names are Regal and Aura. But if you're not going to read the articles I provided then I can't help you.
 
2017-03-14 04:56:41 PM  

great_tigers: Vaginosilicosis: great_tigers: I won't win your opinion and that is fine. Simple fact is that GM is garbage.

Its your opinion that is garbage if you honestly think that 80's GM > 2010's GM.    Seriously, its such a stupid position its not even worth the time to argue against if you are being real and not trolling.

goodness! I just provided you with data that shows the quality improvements that GM has prided themselves on. Then the articles that illustrate the quality problems on the cars that they had just boasted about.

I get it, you have the chevy logo tattoo on your arm. Your kids names are Regal and Aura. But if you're not going to read the articles I provided then I can't help you.


Vadge is almost certainly a paid shill for GM.  Vadge: I hope you can kick Drew some of your shill money since you're wasting his bandwidth and storage on pushing garbage cars beyond any possibility of success.
 
2017-03-14 05:20:43 PM  

Vaginosilicosis: great_tigers: Vaginosilicosis: skeevy420: quality has been spiraling downwards for as long as I can remember.

Do you actually believe that?

I do. Back in 2005 during the worst days of my life, I sold GM cars. The thing that was versed over and over and over and over was the improvements in quality. "These cars are now built to last longer than the earth" or "your great grand children will fight eachother over this car."

Turns out that they were a heaping pile of shiat that no one wanted. Now, it keeps coming out that there are more improvements in quality.

https://www.aol.com/article/2015/03/20/how-general-motors-boosted-qual​ity/21154524/

I vividly remember "selling" a car to a guy. He wanted very specific attributes on his car and it just so happened that the car he wanted was due to arrive at our lot in a week afternoon. We roll off the truck a brand new sedan that looked incredible. Guy knew we were going to get the car on that day and actually showed up to inspect it off the truck. After getting the car off the truck, we park it and I take off the stickers and plastic.

Guy is getting ready to sign the dotted line in the managers office while I get it ready to take it out for a spin. I take a license plate and put it on the back. Excitedly we both jump in the car and turn it over.

Dead. Lights come on in the interior but won't turn over. We try again.

Dead. I verify that there is gas in the tank.

Dead. We call over the maintenance manager to look. He is completely puzzled. We check the spark plugs.

Dead.

Long story short, after a week of looking the car over. Having GM personnel come to the dealership to look at it and then sending the car back to GM to evaluate. The guy bought a competing GM vehicle. The car had four miles on it and we never heard from GM what was wrong.

This and my own personal experiences with GM products have led me to never buy a GM vehicle again.

Fark GM. I hope you die and long to piss on your ashes.

I guess you must have been born in the year 2000 if you really think todays cars are worse than the cars of....any year previous to that.   Only someone with no memory of the 70's and 80's (or trolling) could possibly make such a ridiculous statement.


Owners of all Japanese brands can tell you that build quality has gone downhill since the '80s. Ford and Chrysler have stayed consistent since then, GM has slightly improved, and the South Koreans have made the biggest inroads.
 
2017-03-14 07:04:08 PM  

DesertCoyote: Owners of all Japanese brands can tell you that build quality has gone downhill since the '80s. Ford and Chrysler have stayed consistent since then, GM has slightly improved, and the South Koreans have made the biggest inroads.


No, Chrylser quality has consistently sucked since the 90s.  Ford tends to vacillate depending on the model.
 
2017-03-14 07:25:25 PM  

great_tigers: Vaginosilicosis: great_tigers: I won't win your opinion and that is fine. Simple fact is that GM is garbage.

Its your opinion that is garbage if you honestly think that 80's GM > 2010's GM.    Seriously, its such a stupid position its not even worth the time to argue against if you are being real and not trolling.

goodness! I just provided you with data that shows the quality improvements that GM has prided themselves on. Then the articles that illustrate the quality problems on the cars that they had just boasted about.

I get it, you have the chevy logo tattoo on your arm. Your kids names are Regal and Aura. But if you're not going to read the articles I provided then I can't help you.


Too busy spending my GM shill checks filling up my Honda Accord to read your bullshiat, sorry.

So, in your world this:
img.fark.net
Is a more reliable, longer lasting car than this:
img.fark.net

Tell me, in this fairy tale world of yours does Jesus ride dinosaurs around the 6000 year old earth?   Do you hear voices, don't listen to them when they tell you to set the house on fire, ok?

Maybe you are just pissed your coal mining job is never coming back and day drinking is going to turn from full time hobby to life long career.   Whatever the case you need to give up trolling, you are bad at it.
 
2017-03-14 07:30:30 PM  

v2micca: This is my own perspective, but GM appears to be making very short-sited decisions right now.  They have spun off most of their international units and now appear to be targeting anything that isn't a gas-guzzling SUV or Pickup truck.

I get it to an extent.  Right now the compact and mid sized sedan market is flat.  The traditional market segment for these vehicles has cratered as more and more young professionals and College students opt for locations with better public transit options over car ownership.  But, I still believe that ignoring an entire market sector simply because it isn't currently a leader is an incredibly foolish move.

GM may boost short term profitability, but they are quickly painting themselves into a niche corner with their renewed focus on one segment of the market place.


On the one hand, GM is just giving the market what it's asking for and eliminating what it isn't asking for.

On the other hand, the market is made up of jackasses who think they all need SUVs Crossovers in order to negotiate the treacherous, pothole-infested wilds of the Target parking lot.
 
2017-03-14 07:31:03 PM  

great_tigers: Vaginosilicosis: great_tigers: I won't win your opinion and that is fine. Simple fact is that GM is garbage.

Its your opinion that is garbage if you honestly think that 80's GM > 2010's GM.    Seriously, its such a stupid position its not even worth the time to argue against if you are being real and not trolling.

goodness! I just provided you with data that shows the quality improvements that GM has prided themselves on. Then the articles that illustrate the quality problems on the cars that they had just boasted about.

I get it, you have the chevy logo tattoo on your arm. Your kids names are Regal and Aura. But if you're not going to read the articles I provided then I can't help you.


lol. honest to god you guys.

The track of GM reliability ratings is pretty well established. After turning out garbage though much of the '70s and being completely unable to produce any decent front-drive or small car until the mid-'80s, they more or less pulled their shiat together on Buicks and Oldsmobiles in the late '80s. Lesser vehicles took until the '90s. Trucks were always reasonably competitive. But the overriding feature is that, unless you got one of the crappy oddball engines, a GM car would run coarsely but indefinitely with indifferent maintenance, though the rest of the car would fall apart around the drivetrain. I've had a half dozen GM cars over the last 25 years or so, and I've had the same experience with all of them. Ran like a top for as long as I owned them, always well past 150K miles, but I just got sick of the interior bits and other mechanical stuff not operating as expected.

They're not making cars like that anymore. The last one died when they stopped making the Impala Limited. There's much more global sourcing since Old GM died. It's hard to say how they're going to behave long term. It will be different, but early returns are that they're on balance pretty good but maybe still not at Honda/Toyota quality levels.
 
2017-03-14 07:59:26 PM  

Gary-L: DesertCoyote: Owners of all Japanese brands can tell you that build quality has gone downhill since the '80s. Ford and Chrysler have stayed consistent since then, GM has slightly improved, and the South Koreans have made the biggest inroads.

No, Chrylser quality has consistently sucked since the 90s.  Ford tends to vacillate depending on the model.


I meant by what I said was Chrysler sucked in 1984, 1994, 2004, and now. That's consistently putting out crappy automobiles.
 
2017-03-14 08:31:26 PM  
definately backing DesertCoyote on this.

the family has been a GM family for years.  uncles and brother worked for them so family pricing kept me from running for the hills.

three straight GM vehicles (93 Sunfire,  98 Sonoma, 2006 colorado) all mad major failures at right around the 100k mark.  never going back.
 
2017-03-14 09:00:16 PM  
My job in the late '80s my job had me wedged into Corsicas and Pontiac STE6000 rentals. They were aboslute trash built to a price point. The Mitsubishi of domestics.

I'm here to tell you, the '78 Chevy and Olds Intermediates from the previous era were WORLDS ahead in quality and sustainability. So, IMO, the late '70s stuff was better than the '80s and '90s.

Christ, I thought I'd eradicated that from my memory.
 
2017-03-14 10:01:51 PM  
Ford has jumped on the Global platform wagon and I for one would use any  to defend Redwall.

I wouldn't use a GM to stand guard over the public loo.
 
2017-03-14 10:32:47 PM  

DesertCoyote: Owners of all Japanese brands can tell you that build quality has gone downhill since the '80s.


More since the mid 90s. I was helping my mother shop for a crossover about 3 years ago. She had owned a CR-V and was leaning heavily towards a new one. Until she drove one. What a piece of crap. That thing had a noticeable breeze coming through the door handles on the rear doors at 35mph. Hell, even a Jeep Patriot I had owned, despite it's cheap interior, was built better than that thing. She ended up in an Escape and it's been problem free so far.
 
2017-03-15 12:49:20 AM  

Spadababababababa Spadina Bus: v2micca: This is my own perspective, but GM appears to be making very short-sited decisions right now.  They have spun off most of their international units and now appear to be targeting anything that isn't a gas-guzzling SUV or Pickup truck.

I get it to an extent.  Right now the compact and mid sized sedan market is flat.  The traditional market segment for these vehicles has cratered as more and more young professionals and College students opt for locations with better public transit options over car ownership.  But, I still believe that ignoring an entire market sector simply because it isn't currently a leader is an incredibly foolish move.

GM may boost short term profitability, but they are quickly painting themselves into a niche corner with their renewed focus on one segment of the market place.

On the one hand, GM is just giving the market what it's asking for and eliminating what it isn't asking for.

On the other hand, the market is made up of jackasses who think they all need SUVs Crossovers in order to negotiate the treacherous, pothole-infested wilds of the Target parking lot.


As someone who has driven everything from fleet panel vans & trucks to sporty cars, crossovers are 100% better at doing a standard cars job with little to no additional drawbacks. If your only local reference of a SUV/crossover is a traditional full sized SUV such as a Yukon or Excursion, you should educate yourself on how the market has changed. Honda already offers a compact crossover that has smaller dimensions than it's compact car.

Secondly, yes the raised ground clearance is a necessity to navigating some of the pot hole infested street systems because blowing up unarmed brown people seems to be a better use of taxpayer money than investing in infrastructure.
 
2017-03-15 01:07:58 PM  

DesertCoyote: Vaginosilicosis: great_tigers: Vaginosilicosis: skeevy420: quality has been spiraling downwards for as long as I can remember.

Do you actually believe that?

I do. Back in 2005 during the worst days of my life, I sold GM cars. The thing that was versed over and over and over and over was the improvements in quality. "These cars are now built to last longer than the earth" or "your great grand children will fight eachother over this car."

Turns out that they were a heaping pile of shiat that no one wanted. Now, it keeps coming out that there are more improvements in quality.

https://www.aol.com/article/2015/03/20/how-general-motors-boosted-qual​ity/21154524/

I vividly remember "selling" a car to a guy. He wanted very specific attributes on his car and it just so happened that the car he wanted was due to arrive at our lot in a week afternoon. We roll off the truck a brand new sedan that looked incredible. Guy knew we were going to get the car on that day and actually showed up to inspect it off the truck. After getting the car off the truck, we park it and I take off the stickers and plastic.

Guy is getting ready to sign the dotted line in the managers office while I get it ready to take it out for a spin. I take a license plate and put it on the back. Excitedly we both jump in the car and turn it over.

Dead. Lights come on in the interior but won't turn over. We try again.

Dead. I verify that there is gas in the tank.

Dead. We call over the maintenance manager to look. He is completely puzzled. We check the spark plugs.

Dead.

Long story short, after a week of looking the car over. Having GM personnel come to the dealership to look at it and then sending the car back to GM to evaluate. The guy bought a competing GM vehicle. The car had four miles on it and we never heard from GM what was wrong.

This and my own personal experiences with GM products have led me to never buy a GM vehicle again.

Fark GM. I hope you die and long to piss on your ashes.

I guess you must have been born in the year 2000 if you really think todays cars are worse than the cars of....any year previous to that.   Only someone with no memory of the 70's and 80's (or trolling) could possibly make such a ridiculous statement.

Owners of all Japanese brands can tell you that build quality has gone downhill since the '80s. Ford and Chrysler have stayed consistent since then, GM has slightly improved, and the South Koreans have made the biggest inroads.


Re: Japanese brands

You mean when they started building them in the U.S.?
 
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